How Different are Formula 1 and Road Car Clutches? | Road vs Race
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- čas přidán 24. 11. 2021
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This is a clutch from a Land Rover Defender, and this is a clutch from a Formula 1 car - they’re remarkably different.
and today we’re going to show you how they both work and explain why on earth this Formula 1 clutch costs £6000 - over 20 times more than the one from the Defender.
So let's start with the road car version because it’s easier to explain the main function of a clutch. It’s there to disconnect the engine from the driven wheels, and you need to do this every time you start and stop a car, as well as when you change gear in a manual car.
This is because internal combustion engines need to keep turning to keep running, even when the car is stopped and the wheels aren’t turning. Clutches also serve another purpose though, they’re there so you can pull away smoothly.
Without being able to smoothly deliver power as you gradually lift the clutch pedal, the car would either stall when you jammed it into gear, or lurch forward suddenly - the clutch enables you to gradually bring the gearbox speed up to the engine speed - and the same the other way when you’re going down the gearbox.
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What part do you want us to break down next? There are so many we are going to show in this series - I hope you guys are as excited as we are.
*Make sure to SUBSCRIBE to make sure you catch the next episode in the series!*
Turbo
DAS steering from Mercedes
Suspension
Maybe u should do a video between the differences between carbon fiber and carbon and the engineering applications that suit each material...
Dear @Driver61
Im interested, what parts the formula teams are changing between races? (Clutch plates, brake pads,oil etc.) I mean like a regular service between race weekends,not the engine change with penalty.
Will you make a video about this?
Greetings
Fun fact: due to the immense amount of torque produced by their engines and the corresponding weight of their clutch pedals, the drivers of WWII tanks very frequently had one very beefy, muscular leg, and one normal-sized leg from the asymmetric workouts they'd receive.
Had to recheck if i clicked on a video of warthunder, sabaton or something
Bulkrieg
6K for an F1 clutch seems pretty reasonable to me!
especially as 1 piston can cost 50k
From all things you gotta spend money on for the sport this one comes in clutch
Probably not counting tens of thousands of development costs.
Would make a great door stop! Send me a few, sounds like a good gift idea.
1.6 engine
wow I never expected an f1 clutch to be so small
I never expected an f1 clutch to be so cheap!
It actually looks like it came from a litrebike! When you calculate the clutch material area, it must be considerably more than in a road going car. Automatic transmissions also use clutch packs, but those are wet clutches as are most bikes. Suzuki made a dry clutch GSXR around 1983 or so if memory serves. I love how these things are all related, and how one idea can propagate across various engineering areas.
@rockets4kids they’re only used for launching. After which its clutchless shifting. So they don’t have to be that big as they are not transferring all that torque all the time.
@@johnsheldonfrederick2862 actually the clutch always transmits all of the engine torque except during the millisecond shifting action. The amount of friction area and the spring pack pressures determine if the clutch will work in a given application.
@@amazeddude1780 the constant engagement and disengagement of the clutch is what wears the friction discs. The less of that you have the smaller you can make the discs.its one thing holding power that’s already moving as opposed to instant shock
5:20 - my first car was a Lada - when I moved onto my Corolla and came to brake for a junction, I damn near head butted the steering wheel as I pressed the brake with the same force I had used in my Lada. Clutch and throttle were heavy also.
Hahaha same way cars that just had a brake job done are really sensitive until the the brakes are broken in.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@ixx Was originally bought to learn to drive but friend was unable to get it on his insurance. Kept it, got it fixed up (took cylinder head off to replace valve seals) and drive it for 9 months until a company director decided to remodel the back end with his Lexus.
I'd love to see an episode on gearbox differences, like how does the loud gear whine occur in only racecars and how do gear transitions go so smoothly and without power loss in a racecar.
He made a video about the gearbox, but not the differences yet, it would be cool, but here it is
czcams.com/video/bChciv9_BuQ/video.html
he made a vid, race cars use sequential box a ring dog gearbox, similar to a motorbike gearbox
straight cut gears and dog boxes if you wanna look it up
the gears in a road car engage on an angle which reduces noise, except for reverse gear though which is why reverse gear whines :)
the difference between dog boxes and synchro gears (what road cars use) is a bit too complicated to explain in a yt comment though
It is in german, but yeah the whining comes from different shapes in Race Car Transmissions: czcams.com/video/2X3zPySLlFo/video.html
Straight cut gears and dogs
The F1 clutch looks like a motorbike clutch
Because it is, F1 engines right now has a similar concept with motorbikes, high Revs and clutch in hand
Not really just the size
@@tundaslug07 ??? Bikes have basket and bell
They have similar gearbox
@@laddaevolta And a stack of clutch plates
I would also like to see about the various fluids(oil, coolant,brake,fuel) used in F1 in comparison to road cars.
The f1 clutch looks remarkably similar to a motorcycle one.
also: cooling, electronics ( ecus vs ecus ), turbos
1.6 engine
I was thinking the same thing, in fact, back in the day, I would pull the steel basket and drive plates out of the Triumph clutch. Replacing them with aluminum ones. Didn't last long, but did awesome things for the rate of acceleration. Durability didn't matter, as I only got about 90 days out of each motor(squeezing every last drop out of what's basically a 1930s design will do that)..... Never could get past floating valves and busting up the stellite on the cam followers.
Very interesting series.
I've been to the Ferrari museum just a week ago and there are the engines from 2000 to 2003 exposed and when you see them the clutches are incredibly small, my hand is bigger. Simply impressive how much power they can handle and what rotational speed they can go to.
The small diameter should be also to lower their inertia in order to achieve quicker acceleration of the engine.
Maybe you just have a giant hand
Absolutely love your videos. Extremely good and informative content.
Watched your channel for a while now. Figured it was about time I commented to let you know your content is, as always, insightful, entertaining and appreciated.
You do a great job of making this all fascinating. Love it! Love the new series too!
There is another reason for the f1 clutches sise, increasing velocity of moving object requires much more kinetic energy then increasing the mass (0.5mv^2). by reducing the diamter you reduce the velocity of the outer part of the clutch for the same RPM. The smaller the diamter of the clutch the less energy you waste spinning it up and the more power you can put to the wheels.
One of the best visual explanations I’ve seen. Love it!!
Excellent idea for a series! And thanks for including such detailed description of how those mechanics actually work, cause as much as I love motorsports mechanically I'm utterly lost. :)
Amazing. Really can't wait to see the other episodes on this series. Brilliant! 🤙
Brilliant idea for a series! The contrast between road and race is awesome, but it’d also be cool to see any similarities/evolution too!
Much love for this new series Scott.It's so interesting.Keep them coming.
I'm going to love this series. Showing love from the Cayman Islands 🇰🇾
This is a great idea for a series. I am amazed that the F1 car clutch is "only" £6k. Must be the cheapest drivetrain item on the car!
Great video. One thing I didn't hear you touch on was the amount of RPM that F1 clutches see and that a normal clutch on a standard road car (not necessarily an aftermarket race clutch, although most of those too) would likely explode at the F1 RPM including the flywheel. In addition to the material improvement for weight and strength, the diameter plays a huge part in the inertia of the clutch assembly. Lower rotational inertia, lower physical weight/sprung mass, lower mounting on the car, stronger assembly, and less stresses with the smaller diameter.
awesome idea for a show! looking forward to the future episodes of road vs race
Indeed we are so excited Scott, break down for us the inner mechanical working of a reverse gear of an F1 transmission. Thanks a lot.
Love your content and determination to get these parts💯
This is really good series, great concept
Great series idea! Looking forward to more.
Hi great video, one thing not mentioned is the reduced inertia when the rotating weight is closer to the center. It allows the engine to rev up faster.
I like the continued development of new content. Keep on keepin on man. Love the channel
Very nice, clear and interesting video!!
I always follow your videos that contain interesting aspects regarding F1. I would love to see F1 engine parts such as camshaft, con-rods etc. Thank you for sharing. ...from Jakarta, Indonesia.
*big Thank you for the video...* 👏🏻
As the former owner of a retired NASCAR Busch Series road course stock car, I can tell you that the clutch on those is a lot smaller than you'd expect as well. The one I had used a 7" 2-disc clutch.
It looks very similar to a motorbike clutch. These videos are very enjoyable, thank you.
The F1 clutch is the same way motorcycle clutches work. Had no idea F1 clutches were the same, but with all the packaging constraints and engine characteristics it makes a lot of sense.
I'd be interested in the split turbo systems on F1 engines and primarily why we don't see that design on any road cars, especially with the issues early hot V layouts had.
Great work..you have a new subscriber.Thank you!
Great idea for video series.
The number one reason F1 clutch being so tiny is rotational inertia. It has to minimise the 'accelerational' resistance.
Saying that i's so small casue it's so low is not correct. It's in reverse - it is so low becasue it is so small.
I've had a pleasure of playing around with one too.
And another reason normal clutches are bigger (and also the presence of a flywheel) can be attributed to rotational inertia. This means they take time to reach the required speed and hence will feel less jerky
@@karthikmanoj829 absolutely!
He got his hands dirty to make this video for us. Hats off to his effort!
Thank you for reading my mind, I was going to ask about the small springs. 😀👍
Thank you for this great video today!
looking up how F1 clutch worked was the reason i found and subscribed to this channel (over a year ago)
You make really awesome, interesting content.
Oooooooh I like this idea for a series 👍🏻👍🏻
How many still starts can an F1 clutch endure? I'm curious if a race with 3-5 red flags could cause some cars to struggle with worn clutch.
F1 clutches endure free practice 1,2,3 with many exits from the pits plus practice starts. Then there is qualifying Q1, Q2 and Q3. They are then in parq ferme and cannot be touched before the race. Then they endure the warmup and formation lap plus the race start. Then at least 1 trip, usually 2 or 3 fast exits from the pits. Count up the number of clutch engagements. It's a lot.
As the clutch in f1 is an unlimited part, you can use a new one every race.
I haven't got a source but there was a technical expert in f1 that said the teams make a certain amount of clutches at the start of the year, and throughout the year the drivers will use different clutches. The driver will also find out which clutch from the bunch he likes the most, and use that more than a clutch that might be new but he's never used before.
Another important reason performance clutches are smaller in diameter is that it reduces the leverage and in turn makes it harder to slip. Then multiple plates are used to increase the surface area lost
I love this series
Exelent vídeo speak, short and Sharp and goal understend ALL.
I often change gear without using the clutch in my manual transmission car. Generally only 3rd to 4th and 4th to 5th. Not difficult and does not harm the box when done correctly.
As others have noted it is similar to a motorcycle clutch; it is also the same design and similar size as a clutch pack in an Automatic Transmission. A hydraulic piston takes the place of the mechanical linkage.
The same kind of thing is between the axles on a World Rally Car, it disengages with the hydraulic handbrake. It’s my understanding some classes don’t even have a centre differential, the driver just drags the rear brakes to allow slip between the axles. One of those clutches also costs around 4000 euros, I tried looking into doing something like that on a budget, but could only find things like motorcycle clutches, which are difficult to actuate in an inline application on the driveshaft, or tractor PTO clutches, which can’t rev up to a driveshaft’s speed.
I’m frankly amazed that F1 clutch doesn’t cost fully 10x what you quoted.
I have the urge to touch that f1 clutch 😍
Excellent video 🏁🏁🏁!!
Looking forward to braking system comparison, disc, rotor, fluid, and others
I would like to explore the two part turbochargers, where the hot side is at one end of the engine and the cold side on the other. It must be quite a trick to keep alignment of the two wheels perfect, and does having the added mass of the shaft have a negative impact on spoolup?
30seconds in... what a fucking great idea for a series! Loving the concept already.
Awesome episode, breaking down some of the F1 smoke and mirrors.
I hope you can do the gearbox next. I'd love to know about the whine a racecar transmission produces
Wonderful explanation of how a clutch works, the vid was worth it for that alone but the reason I watched it of course was to see the difference between a car n F1 clutch (which looks much more like a motorbike clutch than a car one). So no fly wheel because the clutch doesn't need it and I've seen them put the starter on F1 cars but I'd love to know how that system works? If the starter is external to the car how do they re-start after an off when away from the pits? I'll have to check you haven't already covered this but I don't remember seeing it so maybe you could do a vid on it sometime?
Another excellent video 👍
Love the new theme. Some of the explanations could be bit slower with the diagrams/animatuon that are used, synched with the narrative. I look forward to the next one.
Love the new series
Nice series
One of the main reasons the diameter of the F1clutch is so small is to minimize the rotating mass. Decreasing the rotational mass in all rotating components allows the motor to achieve its redline in a shorter period of time. Next years bigger wheels will compromise this.
great video.
maybe u can revisit it with a dual clutch or PDK or whatever vs f1 one
F1 videos from Driver61, Josh Revell, Chain Bear, John Warren, Donut Media and the F1 official channel, all on the same day?!
Today is a good day.
Love the channel and this series but being a bit of a novice I did find it a touch difficult keeping up with the pace of the video. Felt like it was a crash course in clutches and less time on the difference between road and F1… maybe worth splitting the two. Looking forward to the next video.
Would be interesting to see motorcycle parts along side in this series
Road cars use flywheels to even out the power delivery from unevenly firing cylinders. To reduce cost the flywheel is used as part of the clutch, so you might as well maximise friction area by having a large friction plate.
F1 cars and racing bikes are less interested in comfort, and more interested in the engine spinning up quickly, so a smaller flywheel is desired. This is why Norton experimented with outside flywheels which could be readily changed to suit the circuit. (I think they were copying an Italian racing bike - Moto Guzzi springs to mind). With no large external flywheel F1 cars and motorcycles use a multi-plate clutch. The multiple plates increase the surface area, and greater pressure on the plates increases friction, but requires hydraulic assistance to operate.
I could swear I already watched a video very similar to this right here in this channel.
Wow that's a clutch!
This is incredibly similar to a motorbike clutch. Of course the materials are superior, but the designs are both multi-plate keyed to a clutch basket in exactly the same way. Indeed it seems to be an older motorbike design, with modern sport bikes using a slipper clutch design which only engages when force is going in one direction making sure downshifts and engine braking don't cause the rear wheel to slip. Of course the amount of back torque can be adjusted on many designs so the benefits of engine braking are retained, but in a smoother (better grip) manner. I'm a little surprised F1 cars aren't doing the same, but presumably the sheer power of an F1 engine makes it an unreasonably difficult job.
A similar design is used in airliner brakes.
It'd be nice if you included some high end road car parts too, e.g. a Corvette C8 clutch is still cheap and mass produced but it's arguably closer to a F1 clutch than an old Land Rover one!
very excited!!!!!
Doing reps on a leg press. made me laugh. I had a highly tuned Scoob years ago with a double sprung competition clutch. Changing gear wasn't an issue but if you hit a red light there was no way you could hold it for 30 seconds.
Love this video series. Really detailed explanation and I’ll have to watch it 2-3 times to fully understand.
How much “finesse” do F1 drivers use when they’re launching? On my road car, I’ll gradually ease off the clutch to launch as smoothly as possible. In F1, with only 3mm of play, is it possible to do that? Or is it just about the amount of gas you’re giving it when you do engage?
Would also love to know what part of a road car clutch is the limiting factor for wear. When someone “burns out a clutch” is that when the high friction material gets worn out? Does that happen from letting out the clutch too slowly and having the high friction material spin against the engine component for too long? IE keeping the clutch partially engaged for too long while accelerating?
I appreciate the mechanical accuracy in this video.
Small but fierce! 😈🔥
Sry if I didn't catch it, but the clutch is also actuated during gear changes, right? I know the drivers manually push it during the launch, but I guess the gear paddles also send a signal for its actuation on gear changes. An interesting fact is that the clutch "coupling curve" is calibrated during launch training. At last, I guess it was 2019, Kimi's Alfa Romeo was disqualified for using the clutch to work as a traction control advice, which is banned since a few years ago.
The F1 clutch looks like a high-tech motorcycle clutch. 🤔
The key benefit of a small diameter clutch is that the engine can be lower in the car, lowering the centre of gravity.
500 pnd for a friction plate and clutch assembly?
Cheesus, I've been out of the loop for awhile. Last clutch I bought for my Passat was only about $180...
FINALLY the clearest exploded diagram treatment, combined with the tutor's part display/explain sections, put together in the most appropriate order, and AT A REASONABLE SPEED TO OBSERVE THE OPERATIONS CLEARLY!!!
I've been looking for a demo like this for nearly two decades, and almost every one I've found was lacking in some area or other such that the shadetree mechanic wasn't well served, even if it was clear to an experienced amateur tech.
Cool...
Is the diaphragm spring the reason why, as you mentioned in a previous video, the Formula 1 car has no bite point when letting the clutch out?
Clutches are typically rated for torque, not power. High power at low RPM (thus high torque) can slip that F1 clutch (diesel truck engine), but high power at high RPM will not.
A suggestion that I have is:
Before jumping from road to F1, you can show us a GT or racing version (for example), then an F1.
Vipers ,ZR1 manuals and the new Cadillac Ct5 Blackwing have dual plates to spread out the immense torque.
I can appreciate the fact that you did this without wearing gloves. Not even kidding, some people appear to be deathly afraid of getting their hands dirty.
😂😂
@@Driver61 you have to feel the clutch
you know what am saying
I’m not sure it was mentioned, the F1 clutch’s rpm is nearly double of a road car’s, so need more balancing which also adds to the costs, probably not a major factor now but in the good old days 😊 when they span at 19k rpm probably was more significant 🤷🏼♂️
0:56 is the moment I realized you can write songs
Wow never new they are so small!
Excellent video. Can you make one talking about the differences between a f1 brake and a normal one?
I believe he already showed it
Here it is
czcams.com/video/CQCSDRp0pRE/video.html
@@chrissss696 thanks 👍🏼
The smaller diameter of the clutch also allows it to change RPM quicker.
I feel like you did a video on this already! Still good video
Awesome!
I could buy a race-ready 600CC sportbike for the price of one F1 clutch... Absolutely wild
The F1 clutch-system is actuly very simulare to how the clutch on my 125ccm 2 stroke motorcross was. I had to change the slats, think it was 5 or 6 of them.
I love my raycons!
I would love if you compared the gearbox of a roadcar and an f1 car
Based on the sound I'd guess an F1 gearbox is a dog box similar to a motorcycle gearbox.
Can you explain how to install one of dose in a regular car