In conventional grid the synchronous generator have rotating masses and when Load is increased the first response comes from the rotating mass inertia and that’s why the frequency drops. But if we take the case of an islanded Microgrid the Microgrid mostly contains converters which can generate voltage with rated frequencies very efficiently. so a load change in that case should not affect the frequency because they don’t have inertia they don’t have rotating masses. then how inertia in an Islanded Microgrid is a problem. I know this is a stupid question but I can’t get over it?
Basic question. If inertial response is the energy contributed by synchronous generators that are online (assuming a large generator conks out of the grid), how much of a generator's capacity is actually additionally injected to the grid? Or how do i calculate this for that matter? Thanks for citing a theoretical example if you please.
It mainly depends on the inertia constant H and the rate of change of frequency (Rocof or df/dt). It can be calculated by the following equation: P = 8*f*H*df/dt*100/(fr*p)^2, where P is the power contributed from rotating masses [% of the rated apparent power], f is the current frequency [Hz], H is the machine's inertia constant [s], fr is the rated frequency of the power grid (50 or 60 Hz) and p is the number of poles of the synchronous machine. So if a coal power plant in a 50 Hz system with H = 5 s and p = 2 contributes to a fault, which causes a Rocof of 0.2 Hz/s, the additional power is 4 % of the rated, which is in the case of a 500 MVA machine equal to 20 MW.
@@FrainBart_main CLarify the three percent figure as I fear that is the running loss which is obscenely high and results from not taxing carbon etc... Also t o update this content it is important that the nonsense about frequency regulation as a way to gouge grids with short term compliance schemes to quality mandates intended to disrrupt alternatives disruption but instead ... if you know the history you know it... lol...we are now doing hours of storage not subcycle storage or the kind of transmission braking schemes this question elicits an answer to. Presently BIGPV is profit taking the thin film panels clearly are designed to hoard lasers in there manufacture nobody with any sense moves a laser to score a thin film that's what fiber optices and mirrors are for duh. (fiber optics being a mirror tube of course GOT THAT) Because of the unprecedented gouging thin film panels are inflicting on the prescious long term financed capital for new generation we still care about resource efficiency for pv despite it being despite the gouging price already a minority cost. PV can never compete with wind. With only five fold potential acre to power improvement theorhetically (glibbly) possible the rather fix costs of solar access and mounting instruct that offshore wind spun inertial storage is the way to slow down hypersonic cargo and reinsert the inertial energy on outgoing trailers of container ships or multithousand passenger hauls. For those who need more concrete examples of what a massive amount of cargo is like consider the toilet that is the panama canal. It flushes spring water quality fresh water into the ocean that has a much higher actual value than the distance reduction for the cargo via the 'shortcut'. That water is underprice because shipping it has a oil mindset apply. Magazines for decades sell ink by gossiping about towing icebergs lol. AN ice berg is not a slippery container for fresh water. It leaks, it's ridiculous and it being old is beyond comment as a value. AS
Although the beginning part about the fundamental idea of inertia and the situation with the existing grid was good, the lecture rapidly went downhill when it came to the low inertia incurred by renewable energy. Undefined acronyms, incomplete sentences, and a failure to explain the basic operation in a comprehensive picture... nothing about the basic physics of how synthetic inertia can help stability... The audience interrupted and we could not see the dialogue... the laser pointer wasn't visible on the screen... Very poor presentation.
This is interesting but appears to be without any awareness of how deeply instilled the dogma is. One outright error you make is to associate directly speed with intertia in circling mass. I understand your subsequent comment about about power tracking but really your not talking about frequency at all your talking about sub cycle voltage maintanance. IE you lose either load or input so electron pressure increases not too fast but just to higher level then scheduled at time. When input drops or fades (wind does not drop distributed does not fade it shifts like your animation shows and this is fluidity is highly constrained and predictable. My bluetooth keyboard keeps failing to transmit so i have toouch the screen or move the window... this is corrupting compositioin so sorry.... anyway I do not regard the grid as agood place to put renewable energy or elecricity a good medium whatsoever. So when you speak of wind I am presently working on high inertia energy storage. The equation does not emphasize speed as t is equal to radius... T being the word IT... Radius increases exponentially increase energy storage!!!! The cheapest movable mass I know of is sea water. Acreage is free. It is easy to simulate the unprecedented intertia of Dozens of miles of thick tubes of heavy fluid. Even thousands of miles of circumferece and a girth in miles is reasonable. Engineering for such a system involves distributed input of wind forces- the blades are on the top of the largely or completely submerged very smooth very round very very low resistive loss body and are tuned duh- tuned to contribute inertia to this moon fraction of a mass. Fabric is very strong in this millenium and getting stronger and protectble from brine. I guess the ocean water does move. I though mentioned how this can be underwater. It can also dive like a submarine when winds cause the surface to become to unstable but it is alsy very important to understand the inertial resilence of a spnning donut in terms of predictable and respondable structure of the fabric and the connecting wings and harvest cables is to be fathomed. BUt its' real and it's usable and this is a corrupty under explored area of system mechanical and better engineering. It is one piece of my replacement of absurdly slow criminally poluting shipping industry. To be blunt the time it takes to use the canals is far more then what it should take to get from any internation water point to any other. To accelerate dozens of containers ships of mass equivalents to thousands ofmiles per hour requires inertial energy and to slow this cargo down requires.... storage. SO that is where my donuts of sea water spun by wind maintaineid by incoming cargo transfered not by wire elecrtricallly but by cables intelligently duh. I am pleased with the answer of speed matching as the donuts have no center mass not just no axles or other cancerous technologies to thruput. A simple pully system of many cables distributing the yank force across distance and time that are stagered- first you pulll on however many hundred or thousands of cables that like an engine pully for a car or truck or container ship lol has you pull a long amount of a single cable to close the pully distance of many cables because the range of radius pull points is limited in the fabric donut. Well to do the arithmatic on a single number set.... we see flywheel absurdity where the diamater can fit thru a door despite the componentsn being buried outside in holes. They say move at millions of rpm and are say a yard instead in radius lol. First if so this would disrupt all energy storage being far cheaper than molten salt etc. BUt compared to wind speed circumference ie less than onE rpm terraton donuts.... are fetish expensive seriously if you must, and i know you must, do the math, unless, as I fear, your a coward.
Loved it. Terrific presentation.
A great explanation of what was for me an obscure topic.
Excellent presentation. Thank you.
Great lecture.
I'd rather say inertia is momentum than energy.
Great stuff
Great!
In conventional grid the synchronous generator have rotating masses and when Load is increased the first response comes from the rotating mass inertia and that’s why the frequency drops. But if we take the case of an islanded Microgrid the Microgrid mostly contains converters which can generate voltage with rated frequencies very efficiently. so a load change in that case should not affect the frequency because they don’t have inertia they don’t have rotating masses. then how inertia in an Islanded Microgrid is a problem. I know this is a stupid question but I can’t get over it?
21:50
Basic question. If inertial response is the energy contributed by synchronous generators that are online (assuming a large generator conks out of the grid), how much of a generator's capacity is actually additionally injected to the grid? Or how do i calculate this for that matter? Thanks for citing a theoretical example if you please.
It mainly depends on the inertia constant H and the rate of change of frequency (Rocof or df/dt). It can be calculated by the following equation: P = 8*f*H*df/dt*100/(fr*p)^2, where P is the power contributed from rotating masses [% of the rated apparent power], f is the current frequency [Hz], H is the machine's inertia constant [s], fr is the rated frequency of the power grid (50 or 60 Hz) and p is the number of poles of the synchronous machine. So if a coal power plant in a 50 Hz system with H = 5 s and p = 2 contributes to a fault, which causes a Rocof of 0.2 Hz/s, the additional power is 4 % of the rated, which is in the case of a 500 MVA machine equal to 20 MW.
@@FrainBart_main CLarify the three percent figure as I fear that is the running loss which is obscenely high and results from not taxing carbon etc...
Also t o update this content it is important that the nonsense about frequency regulation as a way to gouge grids with short term compliance schemes to quality mandates intended to disrrupt alternatives disruption but instead ... if you know the history you know it... lol...we are now doing hours of storage not subcycle storage or the kind of transmission braking schemes this question elicits an answer to.
Presently BIGPV is profit taking the thin film panels clearly are designed to hoard lasers in there manufacture nobody with any sense moves a laser to score a thin film that's what fiber optices and mirrors are for duh. (fiber optics being a mirror tube of course GOT THAT)
Because of the unprecedented gouging thin film panels are inflicting on the prescious long term financed capital for new generation we still care about resource efficiency for pv despite it being despite the gouging price already a minority cost.
PV can never compete with wind. With only five fold potential acre to power improvement theorhetically (glibbly) possible the rather fix costs of solar access and mounting instruct that offshore wind spun inertial storage is the way to slow down hypersonic cargo and reinsert the inertial energy on outgoing trailers of container ships or multithousand passenger hauls.
For those who need more concrete examples of what a massive amount of cargo is like consider the toilet that is the panama canal.
It flushes spring water quality fresh water into the ocean that has a much higher actual value than the distance reduction for the cargo via the 'shortcut'.
That water is underprice because shipping it has a oil mindset apply. Magazines for decades sell ink by gossiping about towing icebergs lol.
AN ice berg is not a slippery container for fresh water. It leaks, it's ridiculous and it being old is beyond comment as a value.
AS
If inertia is energy, why is it measured in MW and not MWh?
it is measured in MWs (Mega Watt seconds)? energy units
Remember that POWER is watts, which has SI units of Joules/Second. So if you multiply watts by time (X amount of seconds), you get energy (Joules).
Although the beginning part about the fundamental idea of inertia and the situation with the existing grid was good, the lecture rapidly went downhill when it came to the low inertia incurred by renewable energy. Undefined acronyms, incomplete sentences, and a failure to explain the basic operation in a comprehensive picture... nothing about the basic physics of how synthetic inertia can help stability... The audience interrupted and we could not see the dialogue... the laser pointer wasn't visible on the screen... Very poor presentation.
This is interesting but appears to be without any awareness of how deeply instilled the dogma is.
One outright error you make is to associate directly speed with intertia in circling mass. I understand your subsequent comment about about power tracking but really your not talking about frequency at all your talking about sub cycle voltage maintanance. IE you lose either load or input so electron pressure increases not too fast but just to higher level then scheduled at time.
When input drops or fades (wind does not drop distributed does not fade it shifts like your animation shows and this is fluidity is highly constrained and predictable.
My bluetooth keyboard keeps failing to transmit so i have toouch the screen or move the window... this is corrupting compositioin so sorry....
anyway I do not regard the grid as agood place to put renewable energy or elecricity a good medium whatsoever.
So when you speak of wind I am presently working on high inertia energy storage. The equation does not emphasize speed as t is equal to radius... T being the word IT...
Radius increases exponentially increase energy storage!!!!
The cheapest movable mass I know of is sea water. Acreage is free. It is easy to simulate the unprecedented intertia of Dozens of miles of thick tubes of heavy fluid. Even thousands of miles of circumferece and a girth in miles is reasonable.
Engineering for such a system involves distributed input of wind forces- the blades are on the top of the largely or completely submerged very smooth very round very very low resistive loss body and are tuned duh- tuned to contribute inertia to this moon fraction of a mass.
Fabric is very strong in this millenium and getting stronger and protectble from brine.
I guess the ocean water does move. I though mentioned how this can be underwater. It can also dive like a submarine when winds cause the surface to become to unstable but it is alsy very important to understand the inertial resilence of a spnning donut in terms of predictable and respondable structure of the fabric and the connecting wings and harvest cables is to be fathomed.
BUt its' real and it's usable and this is a corrupty under explored area of system mechanical and better engineering.
It is one piece of my replacement of absurdly slow criminally poluting shipping industry.
To be blunt the time it takes to use the canals is far more then what it should take to get from any internation water point to any other. To accelerate dozens of containers ships of mass equivalents to thousands ofmiles per hour requires inertial energy and to slow this cargo down requires.... storage.
SO that is where my donuts of sea water spun by wind maintaineid by incoming cargo transfered not by wire elecrtricallly but by cables intelligently duh.
I am pleased with the answer of speed matching as the donuts have no center mass not just no axles or other cancerous technologies to thruput.
A simple pully system of many cables distributing the yank force across distance and time that are stagered- first you pulll on however many hundred or thousands of cables that like an engine pully for a car or truck or container ship lol has you pull a long amount of a single cable to close the pully distance of many cables because the range of radius pull points is limited in the fabric donut.
Well to do the arithmatic on a single number set....
we see flywheel absurdity where the diamater can fit thru a door despite the componentsn being buried outside in holes.
They say move at millions of rpm and are say a yard instead in radius lol.
First if so this would disrupt all energy storage being far cheaper than molten salt etc.
BUt compared to wind speed circumference ie less than onE rpm terraton donuts....
are fetish expensive
seriously
if you must, and i know you must, do the math, unless, as I fear, your a coward.
This has to be the longest comment I've ever seen
hahaha unless you are a hospital you are coming off