Excellent presentation! Maybe next time you can discuss the differences in the nanometer bandwidths (e.g. 3nm, 5nm, 7nm, etc.) of the narrowband filters.
"Right over my head here is probably the single biggest reason why you should try narrowband imaging". The trees!! The trees are out to get your images!!!
Ahhhhhh! You are encouraging us to spend more money!!! But seriously, good points well made. Also do you have any examples of how to process a narrow band image. I know OSC processing but I can’t get my head round narrow band and how you add colour palettes.
I have done some for DSS and photoshop but now I use ASTAP and Photoshop. Ill be doing some tutorials on those soon though. ASTAP is fantastic. Best kept secret for stacking that there is.
"There really isn't anything green in space" then proceeds to show a (nice) very very green cone nebula... ;) Seriously, great video, and yes, narrow band imaging rocks!
If you combine 656 nm, the wavelenght of Hydrogen alpha (yellow, a lot of it) and 496 nm of the Oxygen III (blue), you will get green but, of course, only in your eyes... 😉
Good thing you mentioned the gear because I was about to ask if you need a huge 1mill looking rig 😅 I'm just starting out, like 10-20 years too late but I'm gonna start with my Olympus camera and learn from there :-)
Unfortunately not because there is not enough room between the camera and lens for the filter wheel. You can though use one filter at a time with some of the clip in or screw in adaptors.
While there are a few services that convert Bayer array digital camera sensors to B&W, I would prefer a software plug-in for to eliminate 'interpolation' of the RAW file. Imagine what THAT would do for even a prosumer level DSLR! Thinking on it, the software to delete 'interpolation' would be best applied in RAW processing in LR or PS, or a specialized astrophotography program. There are different RAW formats, but they all have the 'interpolation' script.
This conversion services could only be done on order sensors. Probably would have to go back more than 10 years now. The RGB filters are now barred inside of the sensor instead of on the top like they used to be. So removing them requires you rebuild the sensor. Very expensive and requires very specialized equipment. Some Chinese companies do it but it's for mostly scientific reasons.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Yes, but I am suggesting 'ignore interpolation' combining the RGB filters and letting their data (buckets of light) go straight to a 1-Bit black and white file. It would quadruple your resolution.
@@leonarddaneman810 If that worked you could do that in post using the combined data as luminance. Cameras actually already sorta do this though. But it is still not as good as just having a straight mono camera.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel RGGB *Drizzle* helps recover OSC data at *full* resolution, no interpolation, not up-scaled. But the color ratio for the final data is still unevenly biased at 25% Red, 50% Green and 25% Blue. Oxygen-III photons certainly do collect in *both* Blue and Green pixels in OSC.
Great video but I don't agree about the moon not having an effect on narrowband. It does reduce substantially the efficiency of the signal to noise ratio. OIIII is the worst victim. Try it, take a few subs with no moon and revisit it with, let's say 75% moon. There is a big difference even if the moon is as far as 90% away.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel You are a much better imager then as I tried this a number of times and always got the same result. It's been tried and tested by others too.
@@hael8680 What bandwidth were your filters? If you were using 12nm filters and comparing your results to something like 3nm, that may be the source of your troubles.
I have been taking astro shots with a wide lens (14mm Sigma f 1.8) and a Sony a7r3, I also have an Olympus Em1 mark 3 and f1.8 fisheye. Do you have or offer a comprehensive class on working more in depth (narrow band) like you were mentioning? Want to go deeper to get better shots, but would like to start with a great guide. Love your videos, Thanks!
Would you think the Optolong L-Ultimate 3nm would work well in combination with a modified DSLR? By the way, those are some really awesome pictures right there in the end of your video!
It should but will in no way be even close to what you can do with a Mono camera. I would advise you to experiment with it and get some practice with it. But if you grow to the point where it seams like you are spinning your wheels spring for a mono camera. skip the OSC cooled cameras since you will already have experience with some narrowband anyway.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Very valuable tips, thank you so much! Money can only be spent once, so better not to make unnecesary "in between steps". Thanks again.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Well here in Spain stuff is taking out very frequently. 300 clear nights a year, Bortle between 2 and 4, depending on the exact spot. So we have the dark clear nights but we lack the economy to buy what we want😅
Several. My early photos were with a Skywatcher 80ED then I switched to an Orion Achromatic 100mm f6. Now I use a 120mm f4.3 Orion Acrhomate for big stuff and a Sharpstar Ed61mm for wide field stuff. I also have a SVBONY 102 ED now.
How is a color image produced from a monochrome camera with a Ha filter? Seems like the image would be shades of grey instead of red. My DSLR produces color images, I understand that.
just watched the video! Thanks for the info… quick question, what size filters are you using? I currently use a zwo asi294mc pro one shot color camera. I’ve been on the fence for a while about switching to mono.
Depends on the scope F ratio. If its slower then f5 then you 1.25" filters which are quite affordable. If tis faster then f5 then you will have to get the 31mm unmounted filters. This is for a 4/3ds sensor. If you go the ZWO533MM you could use 1.25" not matter what scope.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Thanks! Right now I have 3 scopes… Celestron 8” Edgehd, Explore Scientific ED102CF and a William Optics Z61. So F/10, F/7 and F/5.9. Of course the sct and Ed102cf refractor are using reducers some of the time, so that speeds them up a bit.
@@astrophotonchaser Start with your small refractor the WO Z61. It is always easier to start with a smaller scope. You will spend several years photographing all the targets you can image with that scope.
I noticed that svbony brought out some narrowband filters which are competitively priced. Did you have a chance to try them out? Knowing svbony quality, that could be agreat deal.
I am hesitate to get a 533mm pro + filter sets or ASI2600mc pro, but it seems I should go for 533 as I have a bortle 8 sky everywhere. Thank you for your video.
Two reasons I would recommend the 533. Its smaller so back focus and a lot of other things are just a lot easier. With the 2600 you have to get back focus perfect. Also you have to capture really good flats with that large sensor. Smaller sensors are just easier in almost every way. And if you are in a borate 8 sky ya narrowband is defiantly your friend. I also did a video about what things you should buy first. Its pretty general guidance though.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel I had this same question. As context, I have a 92mm F5.5 scope (w/flattener) and will have the ZWO AM5 mount (hopefully soon). I will also use a reducer/flattener which brings it to F4.4. Until now, I've only used an Olympus EM1miii for imaging and have gotten some good images but wanted to move into dedicated narrowband. I was planning on the 2600mm until I read this. Do the additional headaches associated with optimizing back focus and flats outweigh the benefits of additional resolution, for a portable setup such as mine? BTW will also be using an ASIAir to control all of this. Thank you very much for any feedback.
@@thomasheatherington357 Do not worry about resolution. A Mano camera by its very nature has more resolution then the same megapixel OSC camera. The bayer pattern that is used to create the color images blurs the photos. Essentially a 20mp OSC is equivalent to a 5mp Mono in the red and blue area. So any 9mp mono camera will be much better than something in OSC.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Followup question, please. As context, I have already decided to move forward with my first dedicated astro camera being a monochrome camera. This based on (a) what I've learned through your channel (thanks!) and (b) the fact that I have an Olympus E-M1 mkiii to use as one-shot color (with the clip-in filter). My refractor-reducer combination, described above, was chosen in part to permit me to use the Olympus without vignetting. I was also planning on immediately selecting a camera with an APS-C size sensor for dedicated astro (ZWO2600MM), since my setup can make use of that size. However, I have no experience with dedicated astro cameras and, reading these posts, wondering if I should first gain experience with a smaller sensor camera (e.g., ZWO294mm) given the challenges and need to 'get everything perfect' with the larger sensor. Any suggestions? All comments welcome. Thanks much.
@@thomasheatherington357 Yes I would recommend the 294Mm over the 2600mm for this very reason. And the 294MM actually has a slight edge over the 2600mm as far as acquisition time goes.
Is there an f speed to stay below in order to collect half decent photos using a mono sensor with narrowband filters, and what amount of exposure time is necessary? INTERESTING!! Thank you
Having just made the transition to mono narrowband imaging I totally agree with you. It blows OSC out of the water. I still have so much to learn about it, but off to a good start. I’m not sure if I will,go,back to OSC or not. At the moment I can’t see why I would. I might sell my asi2600 mc pro!!!
Sky what camera do you have? Many ZWO camera have an alternate sensor window plate that you swap out to have the threads you need to put in a single filter.
@@skye7690 The included 1.25in noes piece will let you screw in a 1.25in filter. You should probably get a dual band filter though since that is a OSC cameras.
When I told my wife that I would not have to go driving off to remote locations anymore and that I would be home doing astrophotography instead. She was cool with the cost. Though Really I feel like I did not spend as much as I would have with a OSC. Watch my video on using achromats and how that ended up getting me ahead in $$$
Excellent presentation! Maybe next time you can discuss the differences in the nanometer bandwidths (e.g. 3nm, 5nm, 7nm, etc.) of the narrowband filters.
"Right over my head here is probably the single biggest reason why you should try narrowband imaging". The trees!! The trees are out to get your images!!!
Great stuff! Very nice images to finish!
Amazing photos ...
Ahhhhhh! You are encouraging us to spend more money!!!
But seriously, good points well made. Also do you have any examples of how to process a narrow band image. I know OSC processing but I can’t get my head round narrow band and how you add colour palettes.
I have done some for DSS and photoshop but now I use ASTAP and Photoshop. Ill be doing some tutorials on those soon though. ASTAP is fantastic. Best kept secret for stacking that there is.
"There really isn't anything green in space" then proceeds to show a (nice) very very green cone nebula... ;)
Seriously, great video, and yes, narrow band imaging rocks!
Hahah you got me. It is false color though.
If you combine 656 nm, the wavelenght of Hydrogen alpha (yellow, a lot of it) and 496 nm of the Oxygen III (blue), you will get green but, of course, only in your eyes... 😉
@@Daktariro it took me a while to understand it too but now its second nature.
Great technical breakdown. Agreed - so much easier to stay home. An old school G-11 is pretty fast..on some 5" studio wheels.
Totally agree!
Ok, I'm sold! 😁
Good thing you mentioned the gear because I was about to ask if you need a huge 1mill looking rig 😅
I'm just starting out, like 10-20 years too late but I'm gonna start with my Olympus camera and learn from there :-)
Awesome images! 👍
Many thanks!
Fantastic information!!!! Can I use a 4/3 mono camera with a filter wheel with my Olympus lenses… especially my 300 F4 and teleconverters?
Unfortunately not because there is not enough room between the camera and lens for the filter wheel. You can though use one filter at a time with some of the clip in or screw in adaptors.
While there are a few services that convert Bayer array digital camera sensors to B&W, I would prefer a software plug-in for to eliminate 'interpolation' of the RAW file. Imagine what THAT would do for even a prosumer level DSLR!
Thinking on it, the software to delete 'interpolation' would be best applied in RAW processing in LR or PS, or a specialized astrophotography program. There are different RAW formats, but they all have the 'interpolation' script.
This conversion services could only be done on order sensors. Probably would have to go back more than 10 years now. The RGB filters are now barred inside of the sensor instead of on the top like they used to be. So removing them requires you rebuild the sensor. Very expensive and requires very specialized equipment. Some Chinese companies do it but it's for mostly scientific reasons.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Yes, but I am suggesting 'ignore interpolation' combining the RGB filters and letting their data (buckets of light) go straight to a 1-Bit black and white file. It would quadruple your resolution.
@@leonarddaneman810 If that worked you could do that in post using the combined data as luminance. Cameras actually already sorta do this though. But it is still not as good as just having a straight mono camera.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel RGGB *Drizzle* helps recover OSC data at *full* resolution, no interpolation, not up-scaled. But the color ratio for the final data is still unevenly biased at 25% Red, 50% Green and 25% Blue. Oxygen-III photons certainly do collect in *both* Blue and Green pixels in OSC.
Wish i knew that before buying my rig, blew my budget on the OTA & was barely able to afford a narrow band filter that also 7nm & 6.5 nm not 3.5
The cheaper ED doublets are good too. Astro gear seams to hold its value quite well when trading up gear.
Great video but I don't agree about the moon not having an effect on narrowband. It does reduce substantially the efficiency of the signal to noise ratio. OIIII is the worst victim. Try it, take a few subs with no moon and revisit it with, let's say 75% moon. There is a big difference even if the moon is as far as 90% away.
About half of my images in the video were taken in 100% moon. I only really see a slight difference with Oiii.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel You are a much better imager then as I tried this a number of times and always got the same result. It's been tried and tested by others too.
@@hael8680 What bandwidth were your filters? If you were using 12nm filters and comparing your results to something like 3nm, that may be the source of your troubles.
@@Mhornfeck72205 5nm. There is still a effect even in a 3 mm.
I have been taking astro shots with a wide lens (14mm Sigma f 1.8) and a Sony a7r3, I also have an Olympus Em1 mark 3 and f1.8 fisheye. Do you have or offer a comprehensive class on working more in depth (narrow band) like you were mentioning? Want to go deeper to get better shots, but would like to start with a great guide. Love your videos, Thanks!
Next week’s episode you will want to watch for sure.
Would you think the Optolong L-Ultimate 3nm would work well in combination with a modified DSLR?
By the way, those are some really awesome pictures right there in the end of your video!
It should but will in no way be even close to what you can do with a Mono camera. I would advise you to experiment with it and get some practice with it. But if you grow to the point where it seams like you are spinning your wheels spring for a mono camera. skip the OSC cooled cameras since you will already have experience with some narrowband anyway.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Very valuable tips, thank you so much! Money can only be spent once, so better not to make unnecesary "in between steps". Thanks again.
Ome cool thing about this hobby is that you can usually sell gear for close to what you payed for it. Thanks to cloudy nights.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Well here in Spain stuff is taking out very frequently. 300 clear nights a year, Bortle between 2 and 4, depending on the exact spot. So we have the dark clear nights but we lack the economy to buy what we want😅
@@kayasper6081 Cloudy nights is a website that I was referring too. It's a popular place to sell used gear.
Hey very nice picture and btw which telescope do you use
Several. My early photos were with a Skywatcher 80ED then I switched to an Orion Achromatic 100mm f6. Now I use a 120mm f4.3 Orion Acrhomate for big stuff and a Sharpstar Ed61mm for wide field stuff. I also have a SVBONY 102 ED now.
Can you tell me about the light shields you have? I could REALLY use that. Thanks for the vid!
On the guid scope I 3D printed that one. The one on the Newtonian is a Fairpoint Dew Shield. They run between 40-50$
❤❤
How is a color image produced from a monochrome camera with a Ha filter? Seems like the image would be shades of grey instead of red. My DSLR produces color images, I understand that.
You will have to watch the video I will be coming out with this week.
just watched the video! Thanks for the info… quick question, what size filters are you using? I currently use a zwo asi294mc pro one shot color camera. I’ve been on the fence for a while about switching to mono.
Depends on the scope F ratio. If its slower then f5 then you 1.25" filters which are quite affordable. If tis faster then f5 then you will have to get the 31mm unmounted filters. This is for a 4/3ds sensor. If you go the ZWO533MM you could use 1.25" not matter what scope.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Thanks! Right now I have 3 scopes… Celestron 8” Edgehd, Explore Scientific ED102CF and a William Optics Z61. So F/10, F/7 and F/5.9. Of course the sct and Ed102cf refractor are using reducers some of the time, so that speeds them up a bit.
@@astrophotonchaser Start with your small refractor the WO Z61. It is always easier to start with a smaller scope. You will spend several years photographing all the targets you can image with that scope.
I noticed that svbony brought out some narrowband filters which are competitively priced. Did you have a chance to try them out? Knowing svbony quality, that could be agreat deal.
I will probably get a set from them to test out.
I am hesitate to get a 533mm pro + filter sets or ASI2600mc pro, but it seems I should go for 533 as I have a bortle 8 sky everywhere. Thank you for your video.
Two reasons I would recommend the 533. Its smaller so back focus and a lot of other things are just a lot easier. With the 2600 you have to get back focus perfect. Also you have to capture really good flats with that large sensor. Smaller sensors are just easier in almost every way. And if you are in a borate 8 sky ya narrowband is defiantly your friend. I also did a video about what things you should buy first. Its pretty general guidance though.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel I had this same question. As context, I have a 92mm F5.5 scope (w/flattener) and will have the ZWO AM5 mount (hopefully soon). I will also use a reducer/flattener which brings it to F4.4. Until now, I've only used an Olympus EM1miii for imaging and have gotten some good images but wanted to move into dedicated narrowband. I was planning on the 2600mm until I read this. Do the additional headaches associated with optimizing back focus and flats outweigh the benefits of additional resolution, for a portable setup such as mine? BTW will also be using an ASIAir to control all of this. Thank you very much for any feedback.
@@thomasheatherington357 Do not worry about resolution. A Mano camera by its very nature has more resolution then the same megapixel OSC camera. The bayer pattern that is used to create the color images blurs the photos. Essentially a 20mp OSC is equivalent to a 5mp Mono in the red and blue area. So any 9mp mono camera will be much better than something in OSC.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Followup question, please. As context, I have already decided to move forward with my first dedicated astro camera being a monochrome camera. This based on (a) what I've learned through your channel (thanks!) and (b) the fact that I have an Olympus E-M1 mkiii to use as one-shot color (with the clip-in filter). My refractor-reducer combination, described above, was chosen in part to permit me to use the Olympus without vignetting. I was also planning on immediately selecting a camera with an APS-C size sensor for dedicated astro (ZWO2600MM), since my setup can make use of that size. However, I have no experience with dedicated astro cameras and, reading these posts, wondering if I should first gain experience with a smaller sensor camera (e.g., ZWO294mm) given the challenges and need to 'get everything perfect' with the larger sensor. Any suggestions? All comments welcome. Thanks much.
@@thomasheatherington357 Yes I would recommend the 294Mm over the 2600mm for this very reason. And the 294MM actually has a slight edge over the 2600mm as far as acquisition time goes.
Is there an f speed to stay below in order to collect half decent photos using a mono sensor with narrowband filters, and what amount of exposure time is necessary? INTERESTING!! Thank you
You do not have to use longer exposures. Its that you CAN use longer exposures.
Filters usually have a recommended speed range. My filters for example are good from f3.5 to f20
Do you leave your telescope and equipment outside?
Yes. As long as there is no rain forecasted.
Having just made the transition to mono narrowband imaging I totally agree with you. It blows OSC out of the water. I still have so much to learn about it, but off to a good start. I’m not sure if I will,go,back to OSC or not. At the moment I can’t see why I would. I might sell my asi2600 mc pro!!!
You will have to try and get a 2600MM. Its amazing. I need one but cannot afford it yet.
Can i do this without the whole filter wheel thing? i.e., just stick a single filter in there somewhere? (where?)
Sky what camera do you have? Many ZWO camera have an alternate sensor window plate that you swap out to have the threads you need to put in a single filter.
@@TheNarrowbandChannel Thx for asking, I have only ZWO cameras, my main one is ASI585MC, which is a fairly new model.
@@skye7690 The included 1.25in noes piece will let you screw in a 1.25in filter. You should probably get a dual band filter though since that is a OSC cameras.
Me: "Honey, I want to do NB because ...."
Wife: "How much???". 😢
When I told my wife that I would not have to go driving off to remote locations anymore and that I would be home doing astrophotography instead. She was cool with the cost. Though Really I feel like I did not spend as much as I would have with a OSC. Watch my video on using achromats and how that ended up getting me ahead in $$$
did anybody notice the rabbit?
They were quite tame in the city. In tye country they are much more wild.
Would love to, but I don't have a tracker, filters or computer for such 😬 so my astro is just single shots and cleaning in lightroom 😊
"There is no green in space" and shows us a bunch of pictures loaded with green...🤔🤣 That would be very confusing to a novice!
Wake me up when i can image during the day.