RHINO Hi-Fidelity - Will BLACK SABBATH be their next repress. Make it happen RHINO! Can you IMAGINE?
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- čas přidán 11. 09. 2024
- Please join me as I have a look at the possibility of Rhino Hi-Fidelity repressing The Black Sabbath catalog remastered by Kevin Gray. Will it? Can it? Find out!
Plus, a quick review/rehash of Friday, livestream at the Pacific Audio Fest in Seattle. Find out if Kevin Gray cut the Prince albums from tape. AAA?
As amazing as the black sabbath catalogue would sound, I would cut off my foot to have a Rhino Hi-Fi pressing of Talking Heads remain in light
Holy Crap!! This would be amazing!! The recent Sabbath reissues were atrocious!!! Digital and brick walled. Kevin did the last great copy of Paranoid. I can only fantasize how awesome this would be. Rhino is on a roll between the cars and the new Quadio releases!!
Could not agree with you more. RHINO if you are listening; Sabbath needs the Audiophile treatment.
Black Sabbath catalog a HUGE yes!! They would need more than 5,000 copies made though, those titles would go fast!
I still own my original US pressings of the 70s output. They all sound fantastic, Rhino has already reissued the Sabbath catalog and the results weren't very impressive.
Wow! I would love the Black Sabbath catalog re-pressed from the original analog tapes by Kevin Gray! Thank you so much for the video! I hope this gets one million views!!!!!
Thanks for your vid.
I have a first issue US pressing, and when I eventually got a first UK, I was expecting the UK to sound better, but it didn’t.
The UK sounds thin in comparison to the US.
I know my UK is a first, because it has the “a Phillips record product” at the bottom of the label.
Both copies are M-.
I only play the US. because it has the far superior, for me, “Wicked World” leading off side 2.
One cool thing about the US, is that on side 1 the label states, “all selections written by Tony Iommi-John Osbourne-Terence Butler-William Ward.
Another person, who concurs with me, as to the superior sound of the US pressing, is you tuber/vinyl reviewer Bob Bradley.
Some years ago Rhino released Black Sabbath on vinyl, with the hype sticker stating it was cut from the original master tapes.
I found that it sounded better than my UK first, but still didn’t sound as good as my US.
Don’t know if my U.S. first was cut from the master tape, but if not, it could still sound better than the UK, due to a better mastering and plating.
My pick for Rhino High Fidelity would be Led Zeppelin 2, using the “RL” hot mastering as a reference.
Did RL have the master tape??
P.S. I like the US non gatefold, because the band has stated that it didn’t like the inverted cross that Vertigo placed within the gatefold.
P.P.S. Just learned that my U.S. was mastered by Artisan mastering in L.A., who was doing that in the seventies.
I can see their logo in the vinyl runout.
They had a reputation for producing excellent sound, and are said to have been connected with Kevin Gray.
No wonder my U.S. sounds so good!
I'd love to see this happen too Steve, maybe I'll put a vote in for it too! Great video, thanks!
Thanks Scott. Needs to happen.
That's a hard yes for me. While I have yet to find an original UK press, my current go to is the 2010 Rhino cut which I've compared against the 2016 (2012 remaster) and a modern vertigo repress. For as many copies as I have for each album I would buy each one again if Rhino High Fidelity took a go at them.
Are you kidding? I’m buying 2 copies each! Rhino Kevin Gray mastered, LET’S GO! 💰
If Rhino released them the way that you just described, I would buy them all in a heartbeat! This needs to happen, and Kevin needs to be the one, bar none!
That’s why I did this vid. It NEEDS to happen.
Am I wrong?? - I mentioned this in your discussion with M45 I think - There IS a Kevin Gray AAA Rhino Edition of Black Sabbath Paranoid - came out in 2004 - and was released again in 2006 - and released again (or at least re pressed) from VMP in 2015 with a purple version. Rhino also released AAA versions of BS and MOR - from Ron McMaster in 2010 and then Rhino Released AAA cuts of Vol.4/SBS/Sabotage from Chris Bellman in 2011 - all (claiming anyway) to be cut from the original master tapes - have you heard these? and would Kevin Gray editions of these be that much better? These sound great to me! I just got all of these not too long ago looking for AAA sabbath editions - I would like to add Never Say Die and Technical Ecsasy - those were not done AAA to my knowledge.
Rhino -- Black Sabbath mastered by Kevin Gray needs to happen.
Great video man! HELL yes I want the Black Sabbath
Me too. For $39 a pop. 5000 max
will sellout quick.
@@stevewestman7774 I sure would not hesitate
My copy of The Cars arrived scratched. Waiting for hopefully a replacement.
The cars debut sounded great, I would love to see the first five Sabbath albums. Or at least the first three.
Bring it on Rhino...If this becomes reality it would be just awesome!!
Relief: According to the Speakers Corner label, although they transferred Sales & Distribution to partner(s) last year, Kai Seemann and Christine Waldmann of SC have no current plans to stop the release of reissues. Albeit, admittedly it’s getting a lot harder to get hands on original analog master tapes. That’s the good news contrary to those rumors spread from US channels. Hooray!
Yes they posted the news on my roundtable vid. That is great news.
Steve; I'm not sure my bank account can handle a full Sabbath catalogue; however, I am ok with eating rice and eggs for the next year if I have too. lol. Love the video!! Keep it up my friend!!
Well at $39.99 plus shipping. Not awful. Lol. You will be fine Dustin. Lol.
Black Sabbath UK tapes on Rhino high fidelity would be simply INCREDIBLE ! These would sell out in days, not weeks !
Easy sell out.
Vol 4 please!❤
All of them. Please.
@@stevewestman7774 oh ok. Not a Dio fan but I agree. Great channel Steve.
Rhino please! Make this a reality!!! And more than 5000!!
Steve is leading the charge! Grassroots movement haha. Love it.
Let’s do it.
This would sell out in a day or two. Dream come true if it comes to fruition
I have a U.S. First Press on the Warner “green/olive” label. Sounds great but would Love to experience the Vertigo or what Kevin would do on the Rhino Audiophile.
one can hope for this,cmon rhino
🙏🙏🙏🙏
Wallet Ready!
Rhino just announced a limited edition box set of 4000 this afternoon, so it's not going to be the Kevin Gray cut for a single title! You tried Steve! The Rhino guy must have been holding back a huge grin when you brought up Black Sabbath a couple of months ago! haha! Cheers
I ma still hopeful the get here Rhino Hi Fi treatment. Time will tell. Here’s to hoping. 🙏
They should release at least 50,000 , if they ever get around to pressing these .
Black Sabbath yes!! I went to finally pull the trigger on The Cars and it was sold out..😢
yes Rhino Please!!!!!!!!! ill buy all of them
Repressing music is fucked up. We have enough censorship.
Good one!
I agree with a Rhino Kevin Gray remaster of Remain in Light
Kevin Gray already said that Black Sabbath is not next on your program.
Perhaps you could review his body language.
I have a Vertigo mint Paranoid first press - oh my
Bought it when they were only $100
That would be the biggest reissue of this year by far, goes without saying that I would instant buy! Can only hope
That would be a great follow up to the cars which was excellent Rhino I need to crank up a new Kevin grey remastered Black Sabbath vinyl
Thanks for the video Steve. Im on team Steve with this request.
For folks that are saying "Rhino already did Sabbath and they sound "ok" or "meh" "
That is because they used the US tapes. If they go that direction then yeah we will probably get similar results and a volume dipped War Pigs to boot.
If Rhino can get access to those UK tapes, Im all in for KG mastering from the UK tapes of Black Sabbath. What a dream come true for many fans that would be. IF is the key word here though I suppose.
IF, again big if,
this somehow miraculously comes to fruition hopefully the original Vertigos will be used for a guide by whomever does the mastering. Thats what we want them to sound like folks. At least as close as possible.
Im all for having mastering from the UK mastertapes sound even better than the best UK originals if that is possible. But if the UK mastertapes are used, at least make new masterings sound as good as the original UK lps.
And screw this limited edition to 5000 nonesense. Seriously. To hell with that.
You want to piss BS fans off? Limit awesome mastering from the UK mastertapes and have them sell out in a day to friggin flippers.
How about this:
Standard release from the UK tapes with the "Wicked World" 45 and other bonus tracks added to the albums. Do it like the Little Feat releases you just put out. Maybe a live concert for each album. Yeah?
Why limit these so folks have to pay $150-$200 (or higher if they really sound great) from flippers when people miss out. Dont do it. If this happens make them readily available.
just trying to learn.... - from what I have gathered - there are two different versions of the Rhino editions - ones that came out in 2004-2011 and then newly remastered ones that came in 2016 (from 2012 CD remasters) - the earlier ones - claim to be from AAA master tapes - you are saying - that there are two different versions of OG TAPE out there from the 70's?? - one from the UK and one from the US? Assuming then that the US is a copy of the UK original - at some point there has to be ONE original - so is this why UK editions of sabbath are "better" and also why they cost a lot more - and are nearly impossible to find in good shape and complete (the swirl labels)? So - RHINO - who is owned by WARNER - probably doesnt have access to those OG UK tapes? - since they were on Vertigo - or is Vertigo later bought out and swallowed up by Warner? Honestly - I have the AAA editions from 2004-2011 - Kevin Gray, Chris Bellman and Ron McMaster and they sound great to me - there is a volume dip in War Pigs in the beginning - again - I thought that was on the "OG" tape - only the US version has this?
@@PiecesofVinyl Yeah it can get confusing. I don't claim to know what is available as far as tapes or even if the UK tapes are in shape to use. But here is what I understand and deduce..
Usually what happens is you have country of origin. That is, where the recordings were done is the source of the original mastertape. I do not believe the UK tapes have ever been used for reissues on vinyl. Hype stickers can say many things and mislead. Do I know this for a fact? No. But I do not believe UK masters were used from what I gather. And if they were, the reissues are still inferior to the UK originals and early reissues that used the same stampers.
In the case of Sabbath:
Regent Sound Studios, Island Studios in London, England for their first three albums. The exception being Vol 4 was recorded in America at the Record Plant. Then it was back to England for Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (oddly enough this album is the exception to the country of origin sounding best. Warner Label USA pressing Burbank is much better) Sabatoge was also recorded in London, this time Morgan Studios. After that I fall off the collecting of Sabbath for the most part.
When other countries put out the lps they may get the og metal work or they may not. Germany for example did. Thus why they sound very good like the og's. Warners in American I believe made
1:1 copytapes of the masters or maybe even lower generations. That I am not privy to. But they are not the orginal british mastertapes. Now, a 1:1 copy or even lower generational tapes can, if mastered properly, sound just as good and even better than the originals. Copytape does not always mean worse. It depends on the transfer, condition of tapes etc.
All that taken into consideration, even if the copytapes Warners made sound exactly like what the british mastertapes sound like, the mastering has been inferior to the originals. What that is due to may be several factors: mastering choices, transfer quality, tape wear etc. All I know is that the US lps from the beginning to current reissues are all inferior to the original Vertigos (save for the exception of Sabbath Bloody Sabbath)
Thus my thinking of going back to the very beginning and using the original british tapes IF they are available and in good shape. And IF Rhino has access to them. I am not clear as to what Rhino can access, but Steve here mentioned that Rhino does have access to them.
As far as the dropout or volume dip on the Rhino from the US tapes, no it is not on the original like this. Therefore, at some point the mastertape did not have that drop in volume. Now, was that a operator error in the previous Rhino mastering or is the US tape jacked in that area? I dont know. Do the US copytapes sound like the original tapes and are basically just like using the UK masters? I do not know.
What I do know is there are significant differences in the US reissues and the original UKs. IF that is due to source and the UK tapes have more magic on them and Rhino can get access, then I am in favor of using the UK tapes.
Bottom line:
If there is a 1:1 copytape of the UK mastertape that sounds like the original mastertape or if Rhino has access to the UK original tapes and they sound great, I dont care. Whichever. My concern is totally sound quality.
Just as in the case of the Classic Records and Jimmy Page remasters, they sound nothing like the originals nor do they stand up to any better versions before them.
These were mastering choices. Both of those Zep reissue campaigns are inferior not due to tapes but mastering choices.
My opinion on future Sabbath reissues:
Get the original mastertapes or copytapes that sound the same as the mastertapes, access original Vertigo lps of Sabbath (Warners Burbank lp for BSB), match the new mastering as close as possible to the best sounding original lps and let her rip. Dont modernize, dont fiddle about personalizing the mastering. Just make them sound as close to the originals as possible with the best characteristics of the og Vertigos and the old BSB Warner Burbank lp.
Rhino will see folks falling all over to get these if they are able to do this.
@@FleagleSangria I have an OG Warner copy of SBS - glad to hear that is the better version - though I will say - I have compared it to my 2010 Chris Bellman Rhino AAA and the 2010 sounds better to me. Have you heard the AAA Rhino Re issues? I have them all and they sound really good to me. They are def. worth getting if you don't want to wait for Rhino to do another run with KG. That said - I would certainly buy new ones if they did it this way - like the Cars and Coltrane with the really nice jackets and the OBIs - but the sound needs to be there which I imagine it would. Im happy for now with my AAA Rhino Cuts.
@@PiecesofVinyl What do you like better sonically about the 2010 Rhino SBS compared to the og Warner Burbank?
Yes, I have the reissues of SBS, Vol 4 and Sabatoge from 2011 that were cut by Chris Bellman, the other reissues of other albums later reissued that were mastered by Andy Pearce and cut by Sean McGee from Abbey Road (which hopefully means the UK tapes are ok)
The Black Sabbath catalogue masterings reality are just all over the place.
Ron McMaster mastered the first Sabbath lp for Rhino in 2010. Then 2016 Andy Pearce remasters came out with Sean McGee cutting the lps. And of course Kevin Gray mastered Paranoid. And the list goes on Greg Moore, some other fellow JP.
Ive had everything from Sanctuary to DMM Earmarks to the Deluxe versions from 2016.
The Rhino Vol 4 from 2011 cut by Chris Bellman is probably the best of the bunch. But nothing holds a candle to the originals. The reissues are all varying degrees of meh to pretty good to the Vol 4 being good. The Sean McGee cut Vol 4 outright sucks. Not sure what happened there.
(My dirty little secret is that the Masters Of Reality SHM-SACD is pretty close to the original Vertigo and beats all vinyl reissues imo.)
In the end, as far as Black Sabbath on vinyl reissues, like I said its just all over the place mastering wise.
It would be fantastic to get a cohesive, close to the original masterings of at least the first four albums from one mastering engineer that stays as faithful as possible to the UK originals. One and done. Keep them in print for a couple of years. This equals happy Black Sabbath fans. Heck make a fancy boxset of the first six if need be. Ok, Im not a fan of the latter idea as I would rather see individual releases because defective lps in boxsets are a pain to replace, but whatever it takes.
Oh hell yes! The OG pressings go for silly money, even here in the UK. Let's get this done!
Hello Steve - the new Rhino High Fidelity releases by Van Morrison & Jaco Pastorius are available now!! Would you PLEASE reach out to the Rhino Rep that was on your live stream 3 months ago to confirm that Rhino will be shipping these new High Fidelity releases in new and improved, "protective" mailers to their customers? I received damaged copies of The Cars & the John Coltrane record from them, with major banged up corners on the record jackets for both records. I live in the USA and I do NOT want to repeat that fiasco!! Thank you.
Yes will do.
Thank you Steve! I do NOT want to receive damaged records that they will NOT replace. again, due to their crappy mailers. @@stevewestman7774
Yes please. I have an early Warner US green label that would sound pretty good, were it not for the scratches and background noise.
Sabbath Yes ! A thousand times yes !!
Do it Rhino.
Right!!!!
I agree
MAKE IT HAPPEN!!!
Kevin will absolutely CRUSH it!!!
Oh I know. It has to happen. Kevin will do Amazing.
Yesssss that would be fantastic
Here’s to hoping. 🙏
Yes. I’d buy in preorder. They need more copies, though. Start with the first and see how it goes. But a giant YES.
No brainer, auto buy for the Black Sabbath catalog done audiophile.
100%
Black Sabbath, yes please and more than 5000 copies
Sabbath would be nice....cheers Steve...✌️
Let’s make it happen. Rhino if you are listening. Please 🙏.
I'm all in on a Sabbath reissue.
I’m all in
I would be a buyer of the first 2, maybe first 4, Sabbath albums if those get the HiFi treatment…..definitely not all 8 though for me
Vol. 4 🤘🏼
Nice try Steve! The next Rhino High Fidelity is a Van Morrison, visible on Warner Canada. No sign of the Jazz title yet!
I know. Darn it.
Yes, Black Sabbath Please!!!
Yes!!!!
🙏👍
Cure disintegration would be nice
I vote for Yes 90125 😊
Fingers crossed! 🤞
Are you listening RHINO???
I'd buy the Rhino HiFi early Sabbath albums, not that interested in the later stuff.
Please…Sabbath!
Yes please.
Really? ANOTHER remastering of Black Sabbath? Well, ok. The debut (personal favourite) and Master of Reality were sonically superior to Paranoid (second favourite), and not having Roger Bain on board for Vol 4 and after was unfortunate (he would have made Vol 4 in particular sound sooooo much better). I like Sabbath Bloody Sabbath quite a bit, but IMO nothing after Sabotage would be worth the effort (Ozzy era purist here, but not a lot of love for either Technical Ecstasy or Never Say Die). If Rhino does this then the first two albums would be more than enough, unless of course they can access the multi-track masters for Vol 4 and remix the album to sound, well, like Roger Bain might have mixed it...
All i know, ill most likely be buying every rock release they do as High Fidelity, as The Cars was amazing and I’m not even a big Cars fan.
So will I.
Why? Didn’t KG already master Sabbath? They are out there. And they sound great.
How about Meatloaf Bat Out of Hell? That release sounds bad. Remaster bad sounding records and make those better.
I want a KG Black Sabbath self titled. Kevin only remastered Paranoid.
Meh. Rather see more Alice Cooper Band. T. Rex.: The Slider. How about Tracy Chapman. Re-issue Sensational Alex Harvey Band.. Golden Earring. Nazareth. Soft Machine.
Yes yes 👍