KO Motor Overview | Comparison vs. QS and Stock
Vložit
- čas přidán 19. 12. 2022
- Hey everyone. In today's video we are going to be doing a general overview and installation of the KO motor. We also get some limited head to head testing in against the stock motor. Enjoy!
Merch: emotobros.com/products/ols/pr...
Email: emotobros@gmail.com
Website: emotobros.com
Links to the parts we run and our gear:
emotobros.com/part-links
Great video even though the weather wasn’t working with you guys. Can’t wait to see more testing! Love the fact you guys are all trails 🤙
Great comparison you guys. This is why you guys are the best surron CZcams channel. I really wish you guys would get a dyno and just compare the motors and controllers and batteries that way. It would obviously take all the subjectivity out of the comparison. And it would give you guys something to do over the winter lol
Thanks! We'd already have a dyno by now if we had a place to but it. Agree that it's badly needed to get the most accurate data.
great news. can't wait to see more testing from the bros.
All I want for Christmas is more content. What would I have done this year without my favorite CZcams channel?
Great analysis
Thank you for the in depth review. Glad I’m not one of those killmongers waiting for a motor that will only suffice a dry day!
Who does your haircut btw. Looks sick
Find something else Expensive I can buy for my SurRon 💕. I’m just waiting on my Gladiator 72/38 to go with the BAC 4000 you finally had in stock. I don’t remember why I was looking at CZcams @ 0300 but someone/something put your name in front of me and I went to the website and for the first time in about a year the controller was not out of stock. So I ordered one and then went to CHI Battery for the Gladiator. I pretty much ride on the street and I’m looking forward to a little higher speed and some more acceleration. Thank you guys for all you do for the SurRon community.
Great unbiased opinions. I will go with the cheaper option
Very interesting. I look forward to seeing the future testing. Can you say anything about the install? Were you able to fit the bash guard back on?
The clip was too dark but we could not get the bash guard back on unfortunately!
Nice job fellas! Any plans to test the new EBMX controller in the future as well? It looks promising. Thanks!
I'm sure we will! Agree that it looks promising.
great video! when do you plan to drop the next set of bac4000s???
I read somewhere that this motor can handle around ~20kW. If that's the case I can understand the benefits with some bike builds. Personally, like Emoto has explained before, 10-15 kW Is more than enough for these bikes
Interesting content. I broke one of the mounts on my surron's motor. Fractured cracked the back lower left side. Came up short over an obstacle and lamded hard on the stock skid plate. The impact caused the weight of the motor to over stress the mount.
Now i need a new motor to fix it up right. Luna cycle suggested JB Weld as a patch, and that could work but not optimum or long term.
I was considering the $875 KO motor and controller combo for 1,600 +/- shipped.
I am see tge the stock surron motor is almost better than the KO motor in many categories. The bummer is no one has any new factory surron motors for sale.
Great results so far. See surronster wasn't wrong saying stock pulled harder very interesting.
Ko motor is way more powerful when its set up well. surronster fixed it by getting a normal sprocket
@@boardstopia you should watch emoto bros video, stock motor vs ko, same gearing battery ect, stock wins . Ko is hype not really a 1600 step up. It's more show then go
@@briandhoward6137 u tried one yourself? I guess not because its monterous power. By the way this comment is on that video so yea I did watch it but they must have done something wrong with the mapping or the gearing. These guys said they are running 64t sprocket so that wont work in favor for the ko setup. Put on a 52 maximum and you will find out the motors capabilities
@@boardstopia this vidoe proves ko is all show no go. Side by side in this video proves that. Same gearing side by side, stock wins . So how if they are set up the same, how can you dispute it. I'll stay stock . Enjoy the ko.
@@briandhoward6137 ko uses torque to go fast not rpm. See it as a diesel engine. Stock motor has low torque and wants rpm. So a high tooth count on the rear sprocket compliments it. The ko does not like a giant sprocket as used here because then it cant use its torque.
Some people without much technical knowledge fail to understand thats why they will take these videos for granted and go hate. It just does not work that easy.
Awesome
Off road performance racing, performance gains will be based on traction and how smoothly the power is delivered. May need to change sprocket size to avoid so much tire spin.
Get ahold of one of the original KO MX motors, there what your looking for, massive torque and acceleration down low, but in the upper RPM's it looses torque and acceleration. I got mine up to 50mph which is fast enough for off road trail or technical single-track.
I tried the ko motor and it feels like a hub motor they way it pulls. A lot of power and very fast but it doesn't hit hard like the stock motor does
I just need to see how this would handle high load running like sand and trails, TBH.
The KO motor with the bigger magnets and larger case looks like it'll throw heat off quicker and run longer, plus the lower KV of the motor would generate less heat loaded up at lower RPM. Just step down from like a 72T sprocket to a 65T or something and call it a day?
What happen to the wicked wheel works rims? Where can we buy it?
Couldn’t figure out a good MFG. solution with WWW but had great experiences with them for the year or so that we rode them. We now ride and sell W9 wheels which can be found on our website in the description.
@@emotobros ow. Okok thank you.. Ride safe guys🤗
. I don't have a sur ron but I enjoyed your vid because its informative.. I would love to see more mods. In the suron like body kit from you guys...
I thought the purpose of the KO Motor is it's ability to not burn out, but than, what do I know. It is way more expensive. Yeah, it should do more.
What's some good asi setting for a bac8000 with a bypass battery??
7000W and 650 phase amps would probably be the max for that setup.
@@emotobros so 650 phase amp for the stock bypass battery with bac8000 ??? It's set at 430 now
@@emotobros what would be a good setting for a BAC8,000 paired with a QS 8,000w hub motor? I’m building my own bike and that’s what I’m installing on it.
what motor is better than oem,,,,,,
The KO when used and configured by an adult 🤣
for $1600 it better be PERFECT when it gets to me or its going back...I'm talkin PRISTINE! If they charge a pristine price like $1600 I want a pristine product delivered.. I want to be the one to scratch it up. yes when i buy anything new it better be new . no scratches , no dents ! i don't care if it only cost a penny new is new. scratched and dented is not new and if you're too lazy for quality control then you're slacking in having an actually good product. Performance is 90% and looks is the10% that got me to buy and keep it. i can have this motor built here in Ohio for about $700. My town has a guy that builds electric motors from little RC car motors to big ol 3 phase industrial motors so i guess ill find me a frame and build a Surron for myself
The testing is a lil off you need to get familiar with the ko software before doing a comparison, cause I did alot of studying on the ko software and it out performs it in everyway imaginable aslong as you understand how to work the ko software 🎉😊
We are testing the motor which doesn’t come with KO software. You’re thinking of the KO controller of which we mentioned was not used in this comparison and therefor has no effect on the testing.
@@emotobros Then there's no comparison what controller is used with stock?
thats insane... pay that much to go slower than the stock motor? Did they not test it when the built this thing?
Checkout our latest test video! They run mostly similar times at equal current input.
3:20 worn out endmill probably
Run a VMC everyday and figured the same. Not something most would notice but it caught my eye.
In my 5 years experience as a Quality assurance with that price tag vs the Qs motor 🤣 you can see the quality
Better heat dissipation means you can run more amps through it for longer. If you aren’t overheating your stock motor and are happy with the performance then you don’t need a better motor. If you want to push more amps then the ko should be able to do it for longer without overheating. It’s not rocket science guys…
Pretty much! Our main goal was to see if the KO could more efficiently convert current to torque.
@@emotobros I see. I think your going about it all wrong though. It’s probably less then a 5% difference in efficiency. The only way you stand a chance at detecting this is with a fine tuned dyno and perceive graphs. The butt dyno won’t cut it imo.
Precisely our point. 5% isn’t worth $1600. As we mentioned for top speed guys or motor overheaters only.
@@emotobros the benefit of a bigger motor isn’t really efficiency. It’s being able to push more amps without frying it.
Are people buying this motor expecting to go further? This seems like a bit of a stretch.
The claim by KO was because it generated more torque you could run lower gearing without sacrificing torque and gaining top speed. Maybe once we throw the 48T on that’ll be the case - but it didn’t seem to be with the 64T.
I figured the outcome would be as I’ve been saying for months only reason to upgrade to ko motor would be top speed +cooling even then can’t justify 1600$ that’s a new battery sorry I run a 72v talaria sting I’ve run 25kw on my bike bac8k stock
Motor/gearbox zero issues zero tuning 12kw I hit 75mph so don’t need a 1600$ motor and you need to run 15kw+on their controller to be comparable to say a 10kw bac8k drains battery faster not very efficient hard pass but they look pretty 😂 happy holidays boys
Let's race 🤟🏻
And bet on it 🤙🏻
@@nblazing wait till I get my 72v chi and sure promise to smoke you
@@SwarmMcReynolds Voted most likely to start a battery fire in his high school yearbook.
@@nblazing atleast I don’t completely ruin a 2600$ battery oof keep talking shit bud I’ve tried being nice and dropping this petty beef you keep trying to resurface.
u won’t like what happens next but keep on pushing me just watch
I was under the impression the kO motor has a lower rpm range. The gearing needs to be different for both motors.
Geared to hit the same top speed.
Supposedly if they’re geared to hit the top speed the kO should accelerate faster.
Just a thought
While this is true, the variance is RPM range is less than 5% which I don’t think quite explain what’s going on here. As I mentioned, we also tested with smaller gearing on both and had similar results. We will be doing some stronger data collection next time around.
$1600 hahahahahha
Since there’s no way to dyno a bike and traction is a issue. Why don’t you try more load on the bike. You want to understand the torque benefits at slower speeds. Pull a trailer or drag a weighted item. Or add 150 pounds of weight to the bike. You guys are pretty light, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that a 300 pound guy might want to ride these bikes. Increase the load put on these motors, that would be a interesting video!
You don’t test the power of a diesel truck by taking it to the drag strip. You tow uphill with it!
Oh there is a way to dyno them and we are working on exactly that right now! Your idea is solid too, a more constant and larger load would be better!
@@emotobros I dyno would be cool. Very logical way to compare. But a physical test is easier for most people to understand. I think doing both would be best. But I think some sort of towing or extra weight test would be a more interesting video. And probably get more views as well. I’d be interested to see what ever you come up with either way.
Something doesn't ring true here. You said they have the same Kv rating. This is clearly not the case with the difference in acceleration at the same amperage, with the same gear ratios. There's something definitely off here, almost like one was tested at full battery while the other only half?
Granted, the ko motor is definitely overpriced. But there's no way the stock motor is more powerful on the same Kv, same gear ratio and with the same amount of current. For that to be true the stock motor would have to be far more efficient than the ko. Which is obviously BS because the stock motor itself is likely to burn out through lack of heat dissipation at extended runs over 12kw.
For a fairer test, you need to use a tachometer to measure the Kv instead of taking specs for granted. Only then can you use the right sprocket set up to get the best efficiency.
Also, the ko can handle at least twice the current the stock motor can handle so that also makes it an unfair test since you're limiting one motor at less than half the power it can handle while running the other close to its limits.
Perhaps put your preferences and monetary based biases to one side to get the real figures.
All that said though, I do agree the ko is massively overpriced.
Hey Colin, I actually quite clearly state they do not have the same KV rating but are within 5% - this is basically within a standard margin of error when it comes to general off-road riding which is the main focus of this channel. We also have used a tachometer, as you’ve suggested and they’re around 5500 and 5300 @60V for the stock and KO respectively which coincides with what both companies say. I even mention that difference may account for the difference in acceleration. Interestingly we’ve measured a multiple 100 RPM difference on various stock motors so I’d say some may be as low as the KO or higher than the average, likely poorer manufacturing QC.
I also mentioned that the purpose of the KO is to handle more power than stock especially at higher speeds and for longer durations mitigating heat build up. I think you may have missed the last part of the video because I discussed the concerns you mention in our testing and why it was done the way that it was.
Regarding monetary biases - we don’t sell motors and paid for this with our own money. Beyond that, we’ve been propositioned to sell KO products. I’m failing to see what bias there is and even if there was, pointing out technical flaws within the testing (that I didn’t cover in the last 10min of the video) would be more effective so we can cover it in the next test!
At the end of the day, the KO is marketed as a direct replacement and nowhere on the product page does it say anything about gearing changes, lower KV, etc. we wanted to do a head to head with all else being equal and just changing motors. We will also be testing on smaller sprockets next video! Hope we don’t get rained out again!
@@emotobros I was sure I heard you say they were the same. Watched again, yeah I misheard what you said. Sorry lol.
Cool you're trying out new sprockets. If you're not that worried about top end than changing sprockets might be all you need depending on rider weight and preference.
@@colinriches1519 It's all good! The video is far from concise and details are easy to miss. We actually tried 48T before we filmed this video and ended up switching back to the 64T because we lost so much low end. Maybe that's something the KO controllers will be better at!
Regardless we want to test both options with a draggy and get some better data!
I have found completely the opposite to what you are suggesting and I can only think there is something wrong with the tune or settings you are using. My old BAC set up gets absolutely trounced by my KO set up its not even close and it pulls way harder than my bac and stock motor at the same power levels. I would suggest there are also absolutely hundreds of people that will verify this. I am not sure what has gone wrong here but that motor is way beyond what a stock motor can achieve in terms of torque, pull and ability to sustain.
I have had this experience as well. As soon as the KO Kits came around the Bac bikes haven't won a dig, drag race or MX track race since. Even at the same power levels the KO bikes pull on the BAC every time. Wild
Are you comparing a full KO setup to a Stock motor and BAC controller? That'd obviously be different than what we area doing here. The KO controller itself very well may be better than BAC8000 but we are comparing motors only running the same power levels. We verified with data logs that the current between the two motors was within 5% and favored the KO motor so I'm not sure what to draw from this. I agree that it doesn't make sense!
It doesn't feel the same tho. Do you wheelie? A ko motor is hard to pick up. Yeah it has a lot of power but it doesn't preform the same. The best I've heard is 65 mph from the ko motor and I hit that two years ago on a bac4000 on 13kws
@@emotobros thanks for your trusted review. Notice how Nick didn't bother to state he works for KO
KO has all the resources to make a killer product. It's sad to see the results from multiple independent parties. They released their products way to early to market with a bunch of hype that was just that...hype. Even worse, I have personal experience with their employees making false statements and promises.
@@Ray-kj5hu Can't wait for this comment to Age. Y'all are oblivious to the truth. Ever think that a company that sells ASI and only ASI would want to make ASI look good?
It’s just not worth all that money
This is honestly great. In the comments I see you the only people you're fooling are young uninformed riders. Plenty of mistakes for them to make before they find the truth. Here's a thought, try to make a clear and consice video that isn't 30 minutes of two teenagers blabbing about bullshit in their garage. Use technical vernacular not ridiculous "feel talk". Keep holding onto that ASI deal. When you're not racing your buddy (on a silly sprocket for underpowered controllers and an RPM table you haven't shared) you'll most certainly remain last. Cheers! I hope you have a nice holiday selling a ten year older controller for road sweepers 🤣
All love man. Not trying to fool anyone and have deals with no one. We’ve been propositioned to sell KO and we will happily do that - seems like a great product! No teens here, just 4 engineering degrees worth of guys discussing our experiences with products we paid our own money for!
Seems real out of left field after you called me and were nice on the phone. Sad to see. We’d be more than happy to test any scenario that can be technically explained outside of what we discussed for our future plans. We have nothing to gain by trying to fool people.
@@emotobros yeah man it comes from a place of passion. A place that through tuning thousands of bikes knows there's no comparison. I have yet to find a bac that can even come close at the exact same power levels. I got the job because I understood the product and how to utilize it. That's what's missing here. Unfair tests. This is no different than Surronsters first video... Which he admitted was wrong. If you don't change the gearing you won't see results period the end. Take your schooling and think about that. If there isn't load the controller won't call for more amps, try to load down that motor with a little bit more gearing and see what happens 🤷🏼♂️ just fighting for a fair review on the product you just admitted to seem great. I'm sick of sub par, uneducated reviews.
@@emotobros sells ASI, developed tune for sale... yet denies vested interest in ASI. Do you think we're dumb?
I respect the passion this is just the wrong way. You’re still acting like this is a controller comparison and it’s not at all. This is KO motor vs. Stock motor. The only mention of anything ASI related is that we sell their product and we are using it for the test. I said in the very beginning of the video we sell ASI, you claimed we had some deal. We don’t. They were the only option when we started selling controllers and now they’re not. We will gladly sell a superior product - shall our testing determines one exists. Again, what do we gain by pushing something that isn’t better when we have the option to sell both?
I also mentioned in the video we changed the gearing and it yielded the same result. As I said: outline whatever you’d like us to test or whatever was inaccurate about our test and we are happy to retest it. I feel we more than adequately mentioned the flaws in our testing and what we would do for future testing.
@@emotobros I'll own my angst. It's less than tasteful. I'll move along and let everything age. People make their own choices. There is no wrong or right. I choose more speed, power and reliability with modern electronics. My personal preferences.
👌pls 1 bike pls Bro 🙏
I am an 🇮🇳India tamil nadu