Largest Vehicle-To-Grid Charging Project On The Planet?
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Utrecht is working towards becoming the first bi-directional city in the world and in his recent trip Robert visited a huge solar powered car park and charging station to see how EVs and Vehicle-To-Grid charging are being integrated together.
In the next of our series of Dutch episodes Robert explores fossil free homes and drives his Nissan Leaf back home with its brand new battery.
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#ElectricVehicles #EVs #EVCharging #BidirectionalCharging #Solar #V2G #VehicleToGrid #Netherlands #Europe #Utrecht #Holland
I'm very proud of my father! This project took a great deal of time and effort. It's an awesome piece of innovation and the result speaks volumes!
What a great rolemodel he is.
He should get von der Leyen's job!
Absolutely, your father is working on something important that will change the style of energy generation, storage and use for us all, in the near future.
Great work guys, keep it up!
So great!!
I am doing my master thesis about V2G's potential at car dealerships. This video is gold to me, now people will take me more seriously when asking for interviews.
talk to Fully Charged Podcast when you are finished, I would love to listen to your findings
Willy, were you aware the Nissan Plant in Sunderland has a V2G facility, as does Nissan's R & D HQ in Bedfordshire? Maybe they'll be happy to provide details if contacted?
Really good idea, but: ”Dubarry et al., 2017c) presented the results of an experimental study on the impact of V2G operations on Lithium-ion battery degradation. Their results show that additional cycling to discharge EV batteries to the power grid, even at constant power, is detrimental to battery performance.”
Look up Fully Charged Orkney from 3 years ago. 3 Part series of what will be the future.
@@hessulipoika13 Point well taken. It will be interesting to see what comparable studies determine.
This should be mandatory at long term airport parking lots! You go for a 2 week holiday, park your car, tell them you want the car charged to 95% by 3pm a week on Sunday. You get a free charge, maybe even free parking, and in return the car park uses your battery for energy storage.
Sure there are some use cases for Gatwicks Gridserve EV forecourt... But for 99% of ev drivers this would be much better. No waiting to charge up, no additional cost of charging up, and the knowledge that you are helping more solar energy get into the grid!
My longest time connected to a charger was at the long term parking at the airport. Great suggestion, that's a perfect use case!
Genius idea
And in car storage yards/garage lots waiting sale?
@@MsDmcclymont if garages were really switched on they could be doing this already.
You are 100% spot on. There are hundreds of perfect use cases for this tech, airport car parks are a perfect example
Better yet rental car fleets having all EVs could be used while waiting for new renters.
Need to get the Australian government to cover there parking aeras with this and stop fighting the change that will happen with or without them. Great video. Keep smiling everyone
Totally agree mate. Our local shopping centre just covered the car park with sail cloth. Why on earth didn't they cover it with solar panels? Power the whole shopping centre and put power to the grid. Have EV charging as well. I thought it would have been an easy choice to make.
@@stephensimpson5283 Australia had a massive head start on the world when it introduced a price on carbon to incentivise transition to electric. Then they elected Tony Abbott. lol
To be fair, Australia isn't really used to leading the world, much more comfortable following America, UK but more importantly Rupert's lead. More is the pitty : (
The Australian government loves oil taxes.
@@victorsvoice7978 No, not oil taxes; fossil fuel industries' electoral campaign contributions.
@@stephensimpson5283 And relatively easy & inexpensive to retrofit. Just need to make it tall enough to allow a fire engine easy access in emergencies.
The German state of Baden-Württemberg has just introduced a new building code that requires PV on the roofs of all new commercial buildings and their carparks.
It will be those with houses in 10 years with solar roofs and 2 ecars in the drive that will cover the storage decentralisation. Those with cars in the city cannot be used as they will not be attached to the grid most of the time.
It’s about time, our, know all governments did the same 🇬🇧. Whilst travelling in Southern Europe I notice some supermarket parking lots had sun shading for cars with solar panels. This helped run the refrigeration in the supermarkets saving them money and the planet CO2. Doesn’t that made huge sense too ?
In Finland, our biggest supermarket chains S and K are both slowly building solar panels on their supermarkets. And are partners in new non-subsidised windmill parks. (Finland now has 2600MW wind, and 21300MW are planned, but maybe not all will realize)
@@harrikoskinen5933 its such no brainer one should think
A lot of fake-jobs in Baden-Württemberg so that people do not whine. Most of them already can be replaced by automats, robots and self-learning code.
Who was also unreasonably scared that Bobby would hit his head on a cross-beam during the opening scene
We have one for the 2021 blooper reel
Scrapheap challenge territory. I was so afraid he'd be iced, I found myself ducking MY head.😅😂🤣
2:10 When the Construction Engineer said they’d lost four panels to the escape roof, he kindly omitted that Robert had just taken out those four panels with his head sticking out of the sunroof!
@@fullychargedshow The Bobby head bonk preproduction test. Hopefully somebody had had the foresight to bring Kryten's spare head just in case Bobby's head had gone flying; just blue tack it on & keep filming. 🤪😅
Was expecting "spare head two" to be called to active duty after the first scene.
And THIS is exactly the type of carparking I've been banging on about for years. Best utilisation of preexisting built infrastructure by utilisation of full volumetric space - i. e. airspace above.
Brilliant idea and so obvious to use the Type 2 socket for V2G as few would wish their car to donate any more than 32A at any one time. All it should require is that the onboard AC charger is replaced on existing cars. Hardly an overly expensive item when built in quantity and virtually no extra when installed from new.
Type 2 can already deliver about 30 kW in DC without the extra pins. The combo digital communication is also delivered by the type 2 pins.
The challenge is between the type of current delivered with V2G, AC (controlled and inverted by the car itself like Hyundai Ioniq 5) or DC (controlled by the ground station with inverter like Nissan Leaf).
Wow, once this project breaks even in record time, EVERYONE will want to copy its model. Now all we have to do is sit and wait! Great episode. Please cover another similar project.
Another great episode. I'm really enjoying this series on Utrecht. Car revews are fun but this other episodes about renewable energy and sustainability are super interesting. Keep up the good work.
2:10 CONSTRUCTION ENGINEER: “We have 2,160 solar panels, minus four that ROBERT took out with his head sticking out of the car’s sunroof.” 🤣
This is the sort of stuff that gives me so much hope for the future. Can’t wait to see more of these, everywhere!
Hope for what?
This is so encouraging! For years I’ve thought the combination of car parking & vehicle charging was a good idea, with the added benefit of using the shade provided by the collectors to keep the cars cooler. Thanks for making a dream come true.
I agree - every suitable car park should have solar panels over it - to shade the cars, to help charge the EVs, to provide power to nearby buildings, and to export to the grid. And this is certainly a beautiful structure. The separate cells on the solar panels let the perfect amount of light through - the car park has a really nice feel and visibility. Awesome work by the designers ! Please come to Australia and build something similar over every suitable carpark you find. Once the car parks are done, there's plenty of other walk ways, foot paths, buildings, and other structures to do.
Wonderful to see the Netherlands leading the way.
Yes yes and yes. A V2G type two project finally up and running, this is what Robert has been talking about for ages. Such a shame we have to wait a few years until the cars hit production but at least it's now coming.
I like Utrecht, lots of canals, I feel right at home :-)
Another excellent, interesting and informative video Mr L.
I think what is being done in Utrecht is very impressive and could easily be replicated around the world. It made me wonder just how many millions of cars sit in car parks for 7 to 10 hours, 5-days a week doing nothing useful. Turn those into EV's doing this and the planet may stand a chance!
It's clear Utrecht is well ahead of the game here. It's very refreshing to see a nation simply committed to getting on with this. So many other countries seem to get bogged down in all manner of debate, wasting valuable time. As pretty much all of the scientists at COP 26 agreed, the time for action is NOW.
So many big box store parking lots can install solar canopies with charge points.
Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Ikea, grocery stores and strip malls all can add solar canopies.
So true, just think how much electricity could be generated using solar panels on all those warehouse etc roofs. Then if you did V2G with employees cars offering them a chance to maybe make some money for grid balancing everybody would win. I love a bit of joined up thinking.
Awesome project. And fantastic to see cities think outside the box and into the future. 👍👍
Super interesting. Thanks for this peek into the future. Follow up videos detailing the grid- charger- and vehicle setup / side of things would be great.
This is something that can and should be implemented in America as well, there are many shopping centers that would benefit from a solar canopy to shade the cars and promote more electric vehicles
Exactly - USA has probably most parking space per capita of any country, which is a massive opportunity.
Great idea ... you get to your car to go home from work and your battery is dead ... I'm looking forward to that.
@@r.lindoncoutts1897 You do realize this is totally opt-in, you can just not opt in, or you can set an acceptable partition according to your desire.
I.E. set my car to allow a 20% discharge then shut off.
@@r.lindoncoutts1897 @Sam Spencer while I agree that it would be stupid if the parking area was not connected to the grid and did not have its own energy storage outside of relying on cars connected, and there was not a lower limit for pulling power out of a car, I would also hope that there was an small horizontal wind turbine under the canopy to provide a small boost of power with the average prevailing winds that could extend a bit of power throughout the night if your scenario was based on a person parked overnight.
@@r.lindoncoutts1897 you're funny 🤔😂😂😂😂😂. You have a great sense of humour. Do you work for an oil company?? 🤣🤣🤣
Brilliant episode Robert 👏 we're looking at a similar set up here in Orkney !
I love the earlier episodes done years ago on this channel about Orkney! I hope they go back to see how you guys are getting on and what is new!
@@dr-k1667 Robert is eager to get back to Orkney ! Watch this space !
7:09 love this shot where that Volvo diesel is leaving the building.
So nice to watch you again Robert. You are the heart & soul of Fully Charged. I know you need a break. However you really are the best. 🥰
Great to see the type-2 v2g technology working. The technology clearly works and it seems like an economic win too as well as environmental one. We need government authorities to get on with it!
And stop being under the influence of oil industry companies.
Its actually pretty easy. You just need standarased protocol and bidirectional obc(onboard charger) tech to do so already on the market for at least over 10 -15 yrs. We also need to upgrade our grid to smart grid. Every car owner should have a vin-app assosation with a grid operators. like you sell energy and you buy energy from them. And also, i think we need more powerfull and obc, at least 10, better about 20 kw. They will not gonna take much space inside of car.
@@pashko90 We had standards for plug and charge for years, but it's still not implemented in most cars. There are just a few outlier cars that support it on Ionity in Europe and Electrify America.
As mentioned in the video, the biggest technical problem is communications - a CHAdeMO system just tells the battery to discharge and handles the DC-to-AC conversion off-board, whereas a type 2 system requires more complex instructions between station and car. I know that the comms. standard CCS uses (ISO 15118) is soon going to update with bidirectional commands for both CCS DC and type 2 AC and I would love to know whether Renault, Sono and Hyundai are using a draft version of this command set or something else.
The other thing that's needed is for the on-board charger itself to be redesigned as bidirectional. The theory of this and the basic circuit architecture have been fairly well researched. I work in power electronics and the power chip makers like Wolfspeed and Rohm are very keen to get their new SiC MOSFETs into bidirectional chargers. The automakers (particularly the Germans, from what I hear) are dragging their feet, with no-one wanting to be the first one to take on the warranty risk of extra charging/discharging time (even if the research and trials all say it's fine). Once someone actually pulls the trigger and builds it, the extra hardware cost will be negligible; just swapping 2-6 chips for slightly more expensive ones. I wish they'd bloody well hurry up with it - we need V2G as soon as possible!
@@gigabyte2248 Yep, actually, ford f150 lightning are very interesting to see how did they handle AC output, but 22kw chager sounds really promising.
Fantastic video FC team. Great to see what can be done, this is real innovation with numerous practical uses. Good to see organisations getting on with it instead of just talking about it. Happy holiday season everyone!
I could do V2G at home right now with my existing equipment. My solar inverter could be directly connected across an EV's battery, and there you go; 5 kW into the grid. Just need the connectors and to control it. Not hard at all!
If you put solar panels over agricultural fields, you lose productivity. But if you put them over the millions of square miles of parking lots in the world, you generate electricity and improve the parking lots! Parking in the shade with protection from the elements is premium!
Not true in all cases. Some plants benefit from the shade and grow better. There is a video about that here on this channel I think but there is one on CZcams that talks about how it can work well with farmers so if you look into ago framing and solar you will come across the video I am talking about. This in addition is just another great use of solar and the benefits are immense for grid stability and the creation of true abundance.
@@dr-k1667 what solar farm grows plants as well?
Every one I have ever seen is grass, because they have to maintain the panels.
Fantastic development, and thanks Robert for featuring it. I think you missed a trick by not really mentioning the other major benefit of car sharing which must play a big part in their business model. At the end of the day car sharing stands to take thousands of privately owned cars out of our cities if we can just get our act together and do something on this scale.
Here in germany we do endless dicussions about "fool cells" and"efuels". Now i see the dutch just do it. Great! Keep on, make it happen!
Great but when your battery goes will the rest share your expensive bill for a new one
Much as I admire all the other great presenters of Fully Charged, you can't beat it when Robert is back in the Helm!!
Anyway, one thing I fail to understand about these new EV Service Stations, is why they are solar powered only. Would it not be perfectly feasible to have such Service Stations using (small scale) wind turbines in addition to their solar power ? So as to have a kind of Hybrid power system using both wind & solar together. Or is it a matter of Planning permission - at least in the UK anyway ?
But thanks again Fully Charged Folks, for another great video.
Because small scale wind turbines are horribly inefficient and just not worth it in such a location. Wind turbines scale massively with size.
@@R3dox66 That's interesting to know. Something I didn't realise before. Thanks for taking the trouble to reply Pascal.
@@paulc96 In addition to what pascal said, Wind mills also require continuous maintenance, and unless it's a dedicated energy park, it's not feasible for normal office buildings or parking place like these to keep invested in operational cost and man hour. Solar panels are awesome (at least in the day light) in this regard as they are the only reliable solid state(and hence close to zero maintenance) energy generating source humans currently have.
@@R3dox66 As well as working better at large scales, wind turbines also really need a clear air space around them for smooth air flow with decent wind average speeds, neither of which are usually found in towns and cities. The ones that were installed on the sides of buildings and roofs 5-10 years ago were either greenwash or people falling for very overly optimistic manufacturer data/scams.
.... at...
Fantastic! Thank you for modeling the way for the world!
Standing up through the sun roof.! I'm glad you didn't have an accident but not a very good idea.
In some parts of the U.S. a tornado or hurricane would disassemble and shred that solar shelter and use the larger pieces to pound the cars to scrap. But good for the Netherlands, and good for hail shelters anywhere else.
Brilliant episode Robert & FC team. Thank you for sharing Utrecht. Getting real information (not FUD propaganda) out there for all to see is unfortunately an essential service nowdays.
Thanks Ryan, wonderful new news video.
An episode like in the good old days of FCS.
Great for the company fleet, not so much for private vehicles. Off the grid is still the best for the rest of us, you can bet at the end the consumer will just keep paying higher and higher energy prices regardless of source. Batteries def last a lot better when not constantly cycling, esp in cold countries.
AC bidirectional - that‘s a revolution. 👍
Brilliant idea! Can’t wait to see this embraced by more countries around the world. Sign me up!
Fantastic camera work!
this is so cool hooking up with a rental car company
Hi, I doubt you'll ever see this Robert, but you know my father (His initials are R.N.F). You've met him a few times at various green energy conventions.
If I could get a reply I'd be very happy as I'm a huge Red Dwarf fan!
Looks amazing, though I'm hoping in the future such buildings could be based around timber construction rather than concrete and steel.
Fascinating vision of how the energy generation, storage and distribution is likely to work now and in the very near future.
More of these types of episodes, please. Yes, we know EVs will make up over 50% of car sales in 18 months. But, what does it all mean? Where are we going with all this? GREAT episode. Well done. More please.
@)0:54 I thought Bobby was the new "Pope". 😀
Another great episode
Three years delay before Renault includes the tech in cars? So impressive :P
V2G would be great at home too, as then instead of a Powerwall, I could use the car for backup and to store cheap rate electricity
I built a 46 square metre carport in 14. The roof was on the south side a 3.5 kWh solar power system. 80 % of the construction was made of wood ( reuse) which was very cheap 300 pounds.
Great EV progress in the Netherlands, even with all the antique laws and regulations around EV's.
Specially around the developement of the smaller leightweight electric vehicles like the Xbus. (also a bidrirectional car with solar panels)
By law, the real heavy 2 or 3 ton EV's can have huge and 400kw plus motors to propell those tons.
But light weight vehicles, in the L7e category, are restricted to silly low 15kw peak performance per wheel. And these leight weight are way more envromentally friendly than the 2 ton Tesla super cars. Apparently the auto industry leaders dont want any competition.
Well said Griz, I've been calling for EV manufacturers to stop their obsession with acceleration & range.
Like you say, make smaller, lighter cars which won't demand large expensive batteries & they immediately become far more affordable.
Not everyone needs a large car either, there's huge market potential in producing the 2nd car which basically only needs to shuttle kids for school, grocery shopping, or the 2nd income earner transport for work.
Unfortunately, Americans still believe bigger & faster is best & Elon's ego-tripping isn't helping. Rather than deliver on his promise to crush the ICE industry, he seems more intent on making it difficult for other EV start-ups by buying up every resource.
They also should be capturing the rain and purification of it for use.
This is a brilliant signal for the future.
We've gone for our prefered route of Powerwall and Octopus/Tesla Virtual Grid option. It's always there charging to 100% via solar and low rate/demand electricity, ready to pump 13.5 kWh into the Grid...often between 4 and 8pm. Lovely.
It's complemented with a Mixergy tank (impetus to buy care of Fully Charged Show), ready and waiting to alleviate the Grid in times of excess electricity production...they can dump it in the car as well if they like.;)
So lot's of good solutions, happening now. As Bjorn N would say, 'renewables for the win!'
Dubarry et al., 2017c) presented the results of an experimental study on the impact of V2G operations on Lithium-ion battery degradation. Their results show that additional cycling to discharge EV batteries to the power grid, even at constant power, is detrimental to battery performance.
7:35 - Sort of... A bit... Perhaps... Don't ask... No... Yes... Slightly... It's just like driving...
Well, as driving definitely DOES affect the battery, the answer has to be "Yes."
Kinda... To some extent... Maybe not too much... But you can afford it, right? 🤔
If I owned a precious EV I'd be far too mean to want to share my battery's life with an uncaring, unappreciative neighbourhood. Because I'm nasty.
@@EleanorPeterson What if you get free parking in the city while plugged into a v2g charger or get paid for every kwh stored if you are plugged in at home?
@@EleanorPeterson
So you will only charge at home then ? as you won't be able to charge at all those nasty companies who have chargers.
"detrimental"? --> may be so, but i need a source ,or some concrete numbers behind this, to say either way.
This technology should be in Australia. There is abundant sunlight for energy use.
Not a abundant of EVs though.
@@Robert-cu9bm I wonder how long until our solar inverters are also the Vehicle 2 Grid EV charger too, all integrated in 1 package.
Ie: we come home & plug our car into the solar inverter & walk away, simple.
Afterall we have a gigantic amount of solar on roofs in Australia, so we all are already used to buying those inverters, it's not a big change. Then every new EV that gets plugged in makes the grid better. It won't take much before we start noticing the improvement# , until it finally becomes enough that the problem becomes entirely solved.
# eg: Utrecht only needed 10,000 EVs to entirely solve the problem, but it makes a big improvement to the grid even while the numbers are below that level.
Great video. Perhaps in the next 24-36 months, what we are seeing in this video will be common knowledge. Many folks don't realize that we are living in exciting times!
So very interesting and so ahead of the game compared to many cities/countries.
I planned and built my house 10 years ago and dreamed of 2 things. 1) taking an electric car into the forest (or a demolition site) with a trailer and plugging in an electric chain saw to cut and collect wood to heat the house 2) plugging the electric car into the house to power the house and balance the grid. The house is ready (two 22KW three phase cables to the double garage, wood heating system, 85 PV panels on the roof, built to passive house standard, domestic system to schedule load) but 10 years later I'm still waiting for the car V2G and the leccy supplier to catch up. Hopefully buying an Ioniq 5 with V2G and V2L for the chain saw next autumn.
Careful with that chainsaw, Eugene... 🙂
[Pink Floyd reference; recycled, updated and electrified.]
@@EleanorPeterson very good. I know the track and the album well. I've spent the last 10 years just "biding my time" waiting for car manufacturers to get on their "bike" instead of staring at the sky watching "cirrus minor"...
Why oh why is the government not making v2g mandatory, or at least heavily supported.
Why oh why are our politicians bought by oil companies?
Maybe people want to get back to their cars fully charged.
@@Robert-cu9bm best way to degrade your precious battery is to have it fully charged all the time. How many people commute 150-200 miles every day?
A half charged battery is a happy battery.
We have so much catching up to do(UK). We can’t get our council to fix a charge point after a year! So V2G is like a pipe dream. I’d be happy if I could charge under cover, that would be a start, but having solar panels too, would be the cherry on top🚗🔋😀
Think about simultaneously stop, charge, shopping at supermarkets etc.
Nice one Lew. I love Holland and intend to spend more time in Europe after I retire. By then I will have likely purchased a P2V motor with onboard solar to boot. Cars, trucks and potentially even bikes could utilise this technology once the protocols have been worked out. Three years back at Silverstone FCLive, I attended a few of your presentations and one guy with a hat was asking a lot of pointed questions to the panel on P2V. Now I know why.
A no-brainer talked about for such a long time and finally the tech is here so that naysayers can be proven wrong. I 💚 🇳🇱
Except the tech isn't in the cars...
The Netherlands and Belgium have been streets ahead of the UK for decades.
Gave this a "heart" in Patreon!
Probably not. Last thing I heard at battery day was that they didn't belive in V2G. But that might have changed.
So glad to see someone actively developing the Type 2 AC V2G system standard.
Once this standard is established it will open up so many more opportunities, not just for carparks like that, but also as an affordable option for V2G being used within the home at an affordable level (chademo just isn't cost effective), hopefully once Hyundai puts it in their cars we'll see Tesla follow suit aswell. 🤞
Great show as always
Very minor production point: can you selectively cut the interviewer's audio track during these sorts of interviews? The "rights" and "yeahs" are good interviewing technique but they're kind of distracting when Robert is not actually being shown and your brain isn't prepared by watching his face to integrate those interjections into the overall flow of the conversation. Sometimes you need it for continuity but often it's just extraneous noise.
This is interesting and therefore I would like a written version to quickly scan to get the salient points instead of sitting for 16.5 minutes. But that is just me I am sure.
I believe this is the answer to power outrages , if every house had the facility, with back up butteries etc , no more power cuts like last week , of course you can’t at the moment do it all at once , but things will improve.
Cheap reliable base load power is the answer. Not intermittent renewables.
Good show, next time you're in Utrecht i'll buy you a beer! 👍
If a privately owned car I would want to have active control over the level of discharge (presumably through an app). Some days I might want to keep the car at 100% for example, other days I might be happy to drop to 50%. I'd need active notification via a phone app of the status of the battery.
the more you use the batteries the shorter they last! They seem to not mention this!
From the opening scene I thought it was going to be a review of the new e-Popemobile.
Does anybody know which kind of protocol they implemented here? Is this based on the ISO15118-20 Draft? Did they implement something parallel to the ongoing standardization or did they already implement a first version of that?
I have been wondering why hospital parking lots and grocery store lots have not started building things like this. Maybe not to this scale, but just rows of southern facing panels used like a carport covers.
Meanwhile I'm here in Texas hoping the power stays on for this upcoming winter. Bravo Europe!
Cost / kWh of domestic electricity in Austin…. 11cents. Cost in uk 30cents
You are lucky to have shale gas and not part of the EU energy market.
@@michaelviney3737 Ya but didn't yall screw up your ability to negotiate prices b/c of Brexit?
@@michaelviney3737 All the more reason for green energy.
Amazing! The future looks good
excellent video - very inspiring
Went to the gridserve at Braintree today very posh couple of chargers under repair (fenced off) very impressive couple of new cars upstairs for sale I assume office rooms to rent also upstairs post office and coffee downstairs so all good another one in pipe line in Norfolk as well
For seeing that it has a Cadillac escalade ESV Electric like the 2020
Fantastic! 👍⚡🤟
This should be law everywhere!!
I’m in the middle of this video, and I’m having a hard time because I’m so distracted about some basic questions. 1) what incentive do people have to participate in this? I think that battery health is a huge concern because people want their batteries to last. They are so expensive. 2) are you expecting people’s cars to be parked here at night, too? I don’t understand when they would be giving you back your energy.
Vehicles are parked 23hrs every day.
10% EV to balance the city.
140,000 and only 10,000 needed.
Vehicles drive building to building.
Utrecht, in the Netherlands.
How does this system deal with events where everyone goes away in their car eg Xmas, evacuations, snow days, festivals etc? Does it affect the contracted requirements? Also, how does it deal with a person that comes to work for an hour, feels ill and wants to drive away in their charging car? Is that catered for in the model?
All of thoseexam0les are covered. V2G only takes 5 or 10 kWh. Many cars now have 50 to 100 kWh batteries.if you have a small battery can just give up 1 orc2 kWh.
Amazing! I want to live there. 😍
Been intrigued by V2H/V2G for a while, have been wanting to go solar for a while but due to working shifts my usage pattern is unpredictable and difficult to make effective use of the power generated with out a battery. However the cost of batteries makes the initial setup unaffordable aswell as longer payback, plus I just don't like the idea of wasting more resources for an extra battery when the car could pull double duty, not to mention that if your home has a grid tied isolator to cut off when the grid fails it could also work as back up power.
Been looking at an ENV200 as ChaDemo seemed to be the most promising in this regard (as well as cheapest most availed 2nd electric van), but this new with type2 would hopefully open up some options with great range/size.
This is what makes sense. Every parking lot could be developed in this way. I worked at a hospital where fifteen thousand employees park their cars on more than 200 acres of parking lots for more than 12hours a day. They could bank enough power to power the whole facility in the future. That's just one example of thousands in my area alone here in the states. Coupling solar with wind and using EVs to store the power could prove to be a win-win for both the businesses and the owners of the EVs alike. Add this with a liquid iron battery system and they could power a community. There's really no end in ways to build out these ideas in the existing infrastructures we have now. We only need the will to work out how to do this so everyone wins out in the end.
There also needs to be competition to weed out (price gouging). I have looked into putting solar up on my property and these guys in my area are quadrupling the cost of materials to install a system. A panel I could buy for $250 they are charging $1000 for. Add in labor @ $80-100/hr and I'm priced out. That's a pipe dream for someone like me to afford. If I were an able-bodied soul still able to work, I would do this job myself but alas, I'm not. My disability check just doesn't begin to afford the cost to build something like this with the current pricing. This is a frustration for me that has to carry over to millions of others out there. I have to wonder why someone hasn't come up with a plug-and-play solar system that installs in a day or two. This would drive the cost down and systems could be standardized to fit anyone's electrical usage. they could wheel it in and set it up like setting up a mobile home. It could be self-contained with battery back-ups included, then string a wire to the home or business. (Instant solar.) (Hey, that could be a catchy name.) I know this would be more useful in the rural areas, but More solar is being developed in these areas anyway. Guess what part of the States I'm from? (clue) It's not the city.
As a conservative, I think about driving down the cost. This of course comes with standardizing how these systems are built and being mass-produced. But to get this ball rolling it's going to take some clever work, cutting the cost through cutting labor costs and working with well-developed merchandise. It also requires laws inducing co-operation from businesses and communities to accept these developments. It comes from having a well-trained workforce. If we are going to pull this off in a meaningful way, we will need to find ways to raise not only a minor majority but to seek a major majority of political members from both sides of the aisle. Otherwise, every time the political change occurs we're losing ground. Again as a conservative, I find myself in conversations with people who are lacking facts about how long a system lasts or its efficiency. Oddly enough of those conversations are with people from both sides of the political persuasions. It's time to stop pointing to one party and alienating half of a nation. We are stronger united than divided of course. The fraise "love thy neighbor" isn't referring to a love fest. It's a call to respect our fellow man even those who don't necessarily agree with you.
A particular hard truth is, people can find more ways to fight progress simply because they instinctively hate change. And that comes from people on both sides of the aisle politically. So please be prepared to work with those on the other side as well as your own political affiliates to find common ground. Some will come with agendas that don't align with our wishes to provide clean renewable energy. We need to be prepared to induce incentives to win over these souls. One more thing to consider is what you are prepared to sacrifice to get a positive outcome. This is a time to negotiate in good faith. It's all too easy to look at someone questioning your proposal and calling him out as an anti-environmentalist when maybe he/she might want to simply rain in the cost or see's issues with how they can move forward in their own community or business. The thing I find is a lack of understanding that prejudices their understanding. A lot of times simply discussing the details and listening to what they're concerned with will open their eyes (and maybe yours) to the possibilities. It's all too easy to dismiss someone who doesn't agree or follow your agenda in this world. The fact is environmentalist have their own infighting going on and for good reasons a lot of times. A subject like this has so many facets to understanding and we all can learn from a conversation. No reasonable person wants to destroy this world, and to target a whole political party and say that they don't care is ludicrous. I listen to these videos and love to learn other people's ideas. Rarely do I come away uneducated, but often am troubled with the prejudices directed at my core political beliefs. How do I send those videos as an educational tool to people who I'm trying to educate? A slap in the face rarely inspires change. A reasoned argument is rarely ignored.
Why doesn't Tesla support V2G in the Model 3 and Y?
Brilliant project. The future is coming fast. Are there any similar projects in the UK?
Good video, but was slightly annoyed that the battery degradation question was pretty much brushed aside. It may be fine & dandy for a leasing company not to care as they will be renewing their cars very regularly, but for domestic users this could be a potentially expensive problem, as could be the environmental impact if battery life is reduced much greater than "regular" expectations. Unless of course the benefits far outweigh this disadvantage & batteries become, or are expected to last longer than the rest of the vehicle in the future, which I very much doubt currently. Great idea, not explained thoroughly enough on that point I'm afraid.
I think the fact that it's an AC connection instead of DC, makes battery degradation less impacting ..
Are you talking about the "environment calculus" (ie more or less effective from Planet Earth balance sheet to use capacity that would otherwise be sitting around doing nothing, rather than building stationary capacity) or do you look at that from the perspective of the car owner? Reckon operator exploiting the battery in V2G would have to pay the wear and tear to whomever is the actual owner of the battery...
Please note that due to the tax incentives in the Netherlands (reduction in benefit-in-kind tax), most EV's are leased / fleet owned company cars. For the project in Utrecht, it's the easiest starting point.
... and in the UK we have .... a few pilot projects, with no info for consumers yet. Come on UK!
ISO 15118-20 for V2G was approved this april. I really would like to see it get to market this year, but I'm afraid it will take years to get to customers.
With full respect, yes they are useful resource, for which i paid double compared to old diesel cars, also i pay for charging with my own money. Pleace answer me why i should agree, my precious battery to be used by grid operators?
I have to disagree, what are my benefits as owner?
Firstly,its entirely your choice,you set the parameters of how much electricity you want to sell on,and when. You benefit by selling your electricity at peak rates,then recharge at off peak times. If you do low mileage then it's quite possible to make a small profit,or at the very least have free transport.
Exactly, what Domingo said, especially if the vehicles are owned by a business rather than an individual.
Perhaps because you get a spot to park your car ? With charging ! Without the obligation to move the car when charging is done !
I'm moving to Europe...
Just don't arrive in a rubber boat. It won't do your reputation any good....
I've long thought someone like NCP should be covering all their multi-stories with solar panels, there's just no excuse and it's easy money for them!
Charging and discharging a car battery without driving means battery warranties need to include this not just distance and time (years).
It appears to be happening. For years I have seen this possibility. An EV is a large battery on wheels. Why restrict that battery exclusively to driving the car when there is potential for storage and power to supply a normal household with power for two of three days? A tweak of the technology would eliminate many of the issues associated with renewable electricity.