🔴 BETTER than Leica M6! (Really) Soviet Rangefinder Cameras (FED, ZORKI, KIEV)
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Very affordable cheap Leica alternative cameras! Try the FED 2, ZORKI 4 or KIEV 4 before a Leica M
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The Konica iiia was specifically built to compete with the Leica 3. I own two of them, and get razor sharp images every time.
Thanks Dale! If I ever get to try one i'll be sure to share a video.
I have such a soft spot for the Zorki 4K. It was the standard issue, bare bones camera at art college and was how I learned the basics of photography. I recall taking some wonderful pictures with that gem of a camera!
Thanks Simon! Yes I might need to get one to try at some point, the 4 has a great finder.
intro: 0:28
About soviet Cams: 1:05
Soviet M3 vs Leica M3: 2:36 - Zorki -4, Zorki-4k
Zorki-4 vs Fed-2: 2:58, 4:49
Kiev cams & comparison: 3:13 & 3:42
who its for: 7:07
tear down/shutter sound: 7:22
Conclusion: 9:05
Compact Solution: 10:56
Lenses: 11:07
Buyers guide/Price: 11:52
Outro: 12:14
If you could add time stamps into your videos I think it would help viewers digest the information better.
Thanks Joe, I have on 1 or 2 big videos. Thanks for adding them here!
Late to the table but I recently bought a Zorki 6 and immediately put a roll of film through it. Very impressed with the results using a Jupiter 8. So impressed with build quality and results, I went on Ebay and bought a Fed 2 with an Industar. Waiting for the results from that but expecting the same. For context, I have owned a Leica 2, Leica 4-2, Lieca 6 and a Leica 7.
Congrats! See my latest video for cheap lenses
Have both Zorki 4 and Kiev 3A and I agree with conclusions; Zorki 4 has a very nice, big&bright viewfinder, which is usually more enjoyable to look through than Kiev. But... Kiev has an amazing rangefinder. More than amazing; Put 2 objects just 20cm apart at a 5 meter distance. On Kiev, you can shift focus between two. I am mostly an SLR guy, and this is impossible to do this on any SLR. Not even my Nikon DSLR's autofocus can do that.
To add to this review, IMHO, Zorki 4's only main drawback is its shutter adjustment knob. Its clumsy and doesn't feel good: First, you HAVE to advance film before adjusting the shutter speeds. You can get around this for SOME speeds if you know how shutter mechanism works, but its still annoying because speeds don't align with the dial. There are some speed changes (like from B to 1 sec then trying to advance film) that will temporarily jam the mechanism and waste 2 shots of your film. Also, one speed change is actually dangerous: At 1/500 and 1/1000, when shutter is not cocked, rear curtain pin stays right below the slow speed timer pin. Without advancing the film first, Shutter adjustment dial normally won't move upwards, but if you really force it, you can bend the slow speed timer mechanism (especially on older Zorkis from 60s, newer ones have an additional screw to prevent this from happening). Then setting for 1 or 1/2 sec, slow speed timer pin won't catch the rear curtain pin and move to right (wrong) side. Best case: your slower speeds are now broken and will work at 1/40ish speeds, worst case: you now have a permenantly jammed camera mechanism and you can break that pin if you try to clear the jam by firing the shutter and then (really) force the winding mechanism. Since slow speeds are sort of an afterthought, mechanically speaking 1/60 is slow speed on this camera (as it disengages the mechanism locking curtains together and activates slow speed timer) and 1/30 is NOT a slow speed. Hence, its 1/30 speed is out of order from rest of the speeds which I also find a little annoying.
Kiev doesn't have these weird "features". On a well-maintained kiev, shutter can be adjusted with or without advancing film. Its shutter speeds are ordered properly. Kiev's only problem is its a little weird to hold in hands and takes some time to get used to this "Contax Hold".
I think shutter sound is an even match. Kiev sounds great at 1/125 and faster, but speeds below 1/50 makes a funny toy-like sound. Which is admittedly unique, but hardly likeable. I think Zorki sounds much better at slower speeds.
PS: I think best Leica-derived Soviet camera is Leningrad. Not only it has unique ability to shoot very fast, as it automatically advances film, Zorki 4's main drawback I've mentioned is mostly eliminated. It also has much higher build quality. I strongly encourage you to try one.
Thank you! Yes great points and I advance the film before adjusting the shutter on all cameras now by habit! See tonight's video for more on the Kiev 4.. love them.. and yes SLR are rubbish for accuracy in comparison.. I need to make an overdue video on this topic too!
iirc leningrads are prone to have its mirror to desilver
If you can only have one between those two, which one would you pick? I'm torn between those two and I also value portability. Which would you say is more portable?
I absolutely adore my Kiev 4a - it became my primary shooter in very short order!
Nice! Great to hear. Yes I love mine too.. I just treated her to a different lens so looking forward to trying and sharing in a future video.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I'm already looking forward to seeing it!
I find the Kiev cameras are the most beautiful cameras but ,kind of awkward to use. The Soviet Leica style cameras (with strap lugs) are, to me, faster and more comfortable to use. Thank you for another cool video.
Thanks Tim! Yes the "Contax grip" still catches me out :)
I have been using Soviet made cameras since the 1990's.( Before there was an internet as we know it today)
Once one learns the rules of changing shutter speeds after cocking the shutter. I wear glasses. It seems to me most older rangefinders have the same problems of scratching glasses- use the work around that people have been using for years? decades? - a small o-ring or piece of leather to fit around the eyepiece.
Matt- your are going to drive up the prices of these cameras and lenses! Luckily, there are literally millions of them out there!
Hi Perry thanks! You would have been able to find the best copies of these old cameras back then. Great! ah yes someone else mentioned glasses. Sorry if I drive up the price, if it goes from £40 to £45 it's not too bad I guess!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I should be selling some of mine off! Yes, I got a lot of good ones and others that later broke. I had help, a local Russian man. I am in the process of scanning my film taken with these cameras- Iskras, Mosvkas and Kiev 6 . I love the Kievs 2-4s and used my Zorki's for years. Perry
Zorki cameras was where it all started for me! Zorki 1c was the camera I really learned photography on and had one until I eventually moved to the Leica iii. Some of my favourite pictures were taken on that camera! I tried a 4k for a while but just preferred the size of the 1c. I loved how unobtrusive it was. In fact, I got mugged in Paris but the Zorki remained untouched 🤣
Hi Paul, sorry to hear about Paris. The advanges of carrying Soviet not Leica! Yes i'm a sucker for small gear too.
I have Zorki 6 (+Yupiter 8) and FED 3 (+Industar 61). They are simple and convenient) There is no favorite, they are both very good!😊
Thanks! I know what you mean, each camera always offers something different for a specific task :)
This was a nice trip down memory lane, but I still say using a Soviet camera is like owning a 1950s British car: it's fun to have something different and every trip is an adventure, but you still need a modern car in the garage in case you actually need to go somewhere with a reasonable chance of arriving on time. Of course Matt doesn't use a car at all, so this analogy doesn't apply to him!
Here's a potential gotcha: Matt didn't show the Fed or Zorki with the lens removed, but on the Fed I had (I don't know about Zorkis) the rangefinder coupling arm inside the lens mount was a simple lever with a curved, pointy end. There's no roller on it, the way there is on a Leica or Canon or most other high-end RF cameras. The problem with the pointy arm is that some RF lenses, especially teles, don't have a coupling cam that goes all the way around the back... just a narrow tab that slides in and out and makes contact with the coupling arm in the camera. Problem: with no roller, when you try to unscrew the lens, the pointy end of the coupling arm snaps in behind the tab and locks the lens on the camera!... the only way to get it off is to remove the film, open the back, open the shutter on B, and reach in and pull the arm back with your finger so you can unscrew the lens. Kind of annoying... so for people who have just bought their first Soviet camera and want to use some non-Soviet lenses with it, it's worth checking to make sure it won't happen to you!
BTW, my favorite Soviet RF camera is the Drug (Friend), which has a Leica screw mount (complete with roller-tipped coupling arm) but is otherwise an original design, not a copy of anything. It's hard to find one in good condition now, and when you do they tend to be somewhat expensive (at least compared to most other Soviet cameras) but it is genuinely nicely made and works well even by regular-camera standards, not just by old-Soviet-camera standards. And if you like Kievs and enjoy a good laugh, try to scare up a Kiev 5, which shows what happens when a bunch of '50s bureaucrats try to modernize the classic 1930s Contax II design by adding a rapid advance lever, crank rewind, and M3-like projected-frame viewfinder, then finish it off with "mid-century modern" styling that makes it look somewhat like a Kelvinator refrigerator. It's absolutely hilarious, and you're unlikely to meet anyone else with one on your next photo walk (although do take a modern camera too; I never got through more than about half a roll with my Kiev 5 before it would decide to stop working and sulk for a while...)
Haha thanks James, yes the 1950s car is such a great comparison (see my Nikon F5 video.. it says something like it's nice to have a garage full of classic cars but if you want one to start first time and just go to the shops without all the faff get a Nikon F5!) :)
You always impress me with your camera knowledge, correct about the cam shape yes. I didn't know the potential issues so thanks for that.
Thanks for the Kiev 5 info, I have seen them online!
I tried a few Kiev 4 cameras, and I think they are fine cameras. Should be a nice alternative for those who want Nikon S/SP but on tight budget.
suggestion - buy Kiev made in 50 -60s, they are much better than later versions.
Thanks Andre, yes! I have the S2 but prefer the Kiev for focusing!
Thanks Eugene, for sure, the later Kiev 4M/AM are really terrible especially
My favorite among the Soviet lenses is Helios 44-m4. Beautiful bokeh! 👍
Nice yes! I did a Helios 44 video
I am an avid rangefinder camera aficionado. I do agree with the conclusions in this video. As for the case of Soviet camera, the Zorki 4 is my favorite. The early Zorki cameras are similar copies of the Leica II/III cameras (e.g., Zork 1 and 2 series). As time goes by the Zorki develops its own character. I enjoy the early FED 1 and 2, but do not like the later models that simply feel cheap and ugly.
One issue that I have had with Soviet cameras in general is rewinding the film. It seems that when I am at the end of the roll and turn the knob forward, the film is pulled from the canister. I have had it happen twice in the last week. My recommendation would be to pay serious attention to the film counter and not try to get one or two extra photos.
I have found numerous Soviet rangefinders on ebay at a great price. The quality control is hit and miss so be patient and prepared to compromise.
Yes if you get lucky with a good copy they are a lot of fun to use
Ohu man, with the video title, I can already feel the whole conflict. Some time ago I found a Zorki 4 at a flea market around the corner. With a super broken Jupiter 8. I only bought the camera because the rangefinder is in such extremely good condition. The contrast is awesome! I had to fix the shutter though. Because the shuttercloths literally fell apart. Now after some work and cleaning she is really beautiful! Am I using it? No, unfortunately not at all, because I'm currently always on the go with my Canon P. The viewfinder has more contrast than my Canon 7sz! And it just feels way better than the Zorki. My Canon P is currently my favorite. 35mm viewfinder lines if you want them, but simply a super viewfinder for 50mm lenses. That in good quality. simply delicious. Its small and very buytifull. I find the lettering on the Zorki 4K just totally ugly. For that reason alone I like the Zorki 4 much better. Just get a Zorki 4 with an jupiter 8 with a working shutter and you are good to go. Working on the shutter is not something for everyone! The viewfinder is esay to clean! Here you get the most Camera for your money!
Thanks Nils!! Yes it's true.. sometimes we have nice cameras but if another camera we own just works that little bit better for us we use that instead. (I use the Kiev 4a and not the FED-2/Zorki-4 for that reason but they can all take good images. (You are more skilled than me with the shutter. I wouldn't know where to start!)
Great video, Matt. Thanks to you, (As you know), I now have 2 Kiev 4's, Jupiter 8, Zeiss Ikon Sonnar f2, Jupiter 12, Jupiter 11, and turrent range finder. Only need to find an affordable Jupiter 9 . Thanks KB.
Thanks Ken! You're building quite a collection!
I love the kievs, but the only problem that I have with them is the loose take up spool and wind on knob/shutter speed feature. The Helios 103 lens is a massive sleeper of a lens and its meant to be a very good copy of a 1950s summicron.
Thanks Sam, yes. I edited out the sound of my spool falling on the floor when I took the back off haha. 103 - yes I need to get onto that video. Stay tuned!
I have quite a few Soviet cameras ... the Kiev 4 is a definite face, excellent sharpness with the included lens ... I love my Zorki 4K because of the film advance!!! I like Fed cameras, but I have a few that have burn holes the the shutter curtain that i need to repair ... I think I need to win the lottery and stop working so I have time to devote to my cameras!!!
Thanks Brian! I repaired my M3 curtain with liquid rubber. You can try with your FEDs. Agreed work is overrated. Get my make money with cameras book and retire early! :)
Love my Zorki 4K but the lack of strap lugs is a bit frustrating……need to get an old case base off eBay. Great video , didn’t know much about the Kievs - cheers Matt.
Thanks Steven! Yes get a half case or if use a wrist strap see my favourite cameras of 2022 video and see how I use my old Leica (without lugs)
Hi Matt, Nice blog. Well done. I'm collecting Sovjet cameras.
Привет Мэтт, хороший блог. Отличная работа. Я коллекционирую советские фотоаппараты.
Thanks and very cool!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaComhi Matt, if you search on internet, you can find the book "The authentic guide to Russian and Sovjet cameras" written by Jean Loup Princelle which write every camera and lenses, brands etc.. It has 293 pages. Perhaps is this book a great value to your blogs etc. Its very intresting book. Greetz, Leendert.
Uh oh, now we have to consider the Moskva 5. :D
Love discussions of the road less travelled. Much more interested in Webleys and Lemon Squeezers than Glocks.
Thanks! I have a Moskva5! (see my 6x9 video)
I love the Zorki-6, Fed-2, Zorki 1, Fed 1. I have had a struggle with the Kiev. The body focus can be a little tough with a cranky lens. . Adjusting the Kiev range finder can be challenging as well.
Nice! The Kiev RF shoudn't need adjusting. They stay accurate much better than Leica RF and say Voigtlanders.
I own a Fed-3, actually a Revue 3 as sold by a former German mail order retailer. I keep it as a nostalgic relic in my collection. I think it is an unrefined oddity and not really useable considering the inferior rangefinder. The 2.8/52mm lens is crap.
Cool. That lens can be quite good actually. Here is a sample from mine that I bought when a walked into a shop in Ukraine many years ago - www.flickr.com/photos/32681588@N03/49734745616
Good video! I accumulated quite a collection years ago, and still have a few. Had a lot of fun and got some very nice pictures from them, especially the Kievs. They all developed issues in time, and where I am, I can get Leica cameras serviced but FSU cameras not so much. Beware camera bodies without strap lugs, very unhandy. I got very lucky with the lenses, not a stinker in the bunch.
Thank you Jon! Yes agree regarding Leica being better for the long term.
Again, a definitive and scholarly review. Thanks for making the effort.
Thanks Zoltan! Doing my best!
Great informative video. Seeing all those cameras reminds me of the Q&A :-
Qn. What is the ideal number of cameras to own? Ans, n+ 1 where n = the number you currently own.
Qn. What is the ideal number of cameras to own and prevent your wife from leaving you? Ans n-1
Haha very good! :)
great video as always Matt, been a fan of these cameras for a long time, brought a Zorki 4 first then added fed 4 to my collection , which eventually lead me to buy the Leica iii
I do find the zorki and the fed cameras easier to load than the Leica iii which can be a bit fiddly sometimes......
Thanks Michael! Yes the Leica iii take time to get used to.
Man..wanting the Kiev 4!! I'd really like to round out my collection with a Contax type shooter.
I've been seeing some black body ones on eBay...they look really cool, but from what I understand, these are all painted by sellers, that none were made back body in the day, is that right?
Anyway..thanks for the video, lots of fun!! I love my fed2 and zorki 4.....(I also have a nice old style metal HorizonT swing lens pano camera that is just a blast!!).
Thanks again and Happy New Year Matt!!
CC
Thanks CC! One of my Patreons bought a black Contax (online it said that the Kiev factory did a few like this I think).. but yes avoid the modern repaints I think
My daily carry is either the Zorki 3M or the Nikon F2. Love that Zorki it does have a nice click to the shutter. I also have the Kiev 3A that produces great photos both my Zorki and Kiev have the Jupitor 50 lenes on them. The Kiev mount is funky best just to leave the lens mounted. My research pointed to the 3M as being highly recommended.
Thanks Peter, nice. I did a review of the Jupiter 8 lens recently. Excellent value lens.
I had a Zorki 6 . It has a 1:1 rangefinder / viewfinder with a 67 mm base , so very accurate focusing even with a 135mm Leitz Hektor or 90mm Elmar . It has also a transportlever like the Leica M . I used the Zorki 6 a lot more than the Zorki 4 because the 6 was more foolproof and better build . Kind regards Peter .
Thanks Peter! The Zorki 6 sounds a nice camera. If I ever get one i'll be sure to make a video.
Moved off my Leica & Zeiss film cameras but kept my Zorki 2 w/ Industar; but also have several excellent Voigtlander thread mount lenses which work well.
Great, they can all take good images. I found my Heliar 50mm f3.5 slightly misses on the FED-2
The early Zorki 4s have engraved markings where Zorki 4Ks have screen printed markings this includes the name on the front of the camera plus the speed markings if your looking to buy a Zorki go for an early 4 not a 4k
Great tip thanks!
Awesome video. I have several soviet rangefinders, but I think my favorite is my Kiev II from 1950. It's mounted with a ZK 2/50 lens from 1950.
Completely agree: Kiev II from the 50s is the nicest of the lot. Only make sure that the curtain ribbons are in good order.
Thanks! I have a Kiev 2 but my Kiev 4 is slightly lighter so I take that usually. Both are great. ZK .. is that a J8 I guess?
Hi Matt, I've got the Zorki 4 and 4K, the Kiev's, their contax "originals" and some Leica's.In my experience I've found the older Zorki's (4) and Kiev's to be better build than the more recent models. There's very little difference between the old Kiev II and the Contax II, the later model II's (with the black rewind knob) are less reliable as the jigs on wich they are made are worn out, remember the soviets took the complete Zeiss factory back to the USSR as spoils of war and never replaced the tools or jigs to manufacture the cameras, allso lesser quality materials were used to produce the later versions. The Contax you are showing is a model IIIa which is quite different than the II, safe for the lens mount.
Even though the the Zorki 4 is knob wind versus trigger wind on the 4K I find the 4 to be the better camera. Unless you really want the focussing accuracy of the Kiev/Contax I would advice to go for the Zorki 4 as the LTM39 mount allows for a much wider range of available lenses from very cheap to very expensive. If on a later date you wich to change for a better body those lenses will allso fit on the Canon rangefinder range, wich are very good and nowhere near Leica prices. On Kiev's you're basicly stuck with the 50mmf2, it will be difficult to find any other focal lenght for a decent price, forget about fitting nikon rangefinder glass on the Kiev i've tried it and it won't work (slightly different flange distance), though Contax Zeiss glass is no problem.
These Russian cameras won't be able to be used very extensively due to the wide tolerances used during manufacturing, but who shoots several rolls of film a day these days? if so, either you buy a lot of USSR bodies in case one breaks down or just go for an M Leica (after you've learnt a rangefinder really is your thing)
Thanks Rick! Great info shared and some wise words too. Yes sorry I have other Kiev's so the one I showed didn't look much like the Contax. You're the first person to ever mention worn out jigs/ tools and that makes a lot of sense. I agree the later Kiev 4M/AM are terrible (I sent 3? back on eBay)(See Kiev video). Good point on cheaper lenses for LTM. You can use Nikon-S glass on Kiev but yes it doesn't always work. I have lenses for both systems (S and CRF) but often just adapt both to Leica instead. See the last video for Canon RF cameras!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Matt if you're interested have a look at the GOMZ Leningrad camera it's sort of a Kiev type of rangefinder, with M39LTM thread. It has a 3fps clockwind "motordrive" and is supposed to be the professional soviet reporter's camera. I've got one bought it just for the collection, but it is'nt working. Now the thing is in my 50 years of collecting cameras I've never seen a working example and if they do from what I've heard it won't be for long. To me it is just one of those examples of soviet "build like a tank" camera's wich were build with tank tolerances to LOL.
Hi Matt,
great Viedo series with the Bessas, Kiev, Zorki and so on. Maybe you took a closer look to Canon L-Series, Canon VT, Canon II/III or Tanck Rangefinder. These are all great cameras and it's a pitty that only Leica survived with their rangefinders.
Thanks Gino! The last video was on Canon L. I'll try to share more in the future.
Lovely video. Alot of great information. I am starting to want to buy a KIEV camera with a Zeiss lens. Looks interesting. I bought a Voigtlander Prominent a couple of weeks ago so that's another option in this small and very old 35mm manual film range. Thanks!
Thanks, yes they can be a lot of fun for sure!
YOu have stirred some long dormant memories with this video, Matt. Back in the 1960s I had a Zorki 4 (I think it was a 4K). I didn't use it much as I preferred SLRs. My first SLR was a Russian Zenith 500, which was sold under the Prinzflex brand of the now defunct Dixon's chain of shops. What I do remember about the Zorki is that it had a very sharp 50mm lens.
Thanks Brian, great memories! The lens would have been a Jupiter-8 50mm f2 I think. Stopped down a little they are sharp. I still need to make a video..
Nice comparison Matt :) They're so similar, props to you for keeping all of them apart from the back side, even if you do get a chance to double check haha.
Thanks Thomas! Haha I could probably sell a few but it's good to see them side by side first to understand which one might suit you best. Hope to see you later on Zoom.. I need to add the link to the existing post!
You're a great lad, Matt! Once again, you've managed to steer me into Ebay land, and into wartorn Ukraine territory, where just moments ago, I clicked on the Buy Now button like a Ukraine sniper, and got myself an early model Kiev 4A with a J-8. ;p
Sorry haha! ..but great find all the same.. the 4a is the model I use the most. Enjoy!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom when I 'grow up', i wanna be like you... Haha
Wealth of knowledge. Great video. I own three of these Russian cameras. Well, four
Thanks Pete! Get some film in them! ..yours truely MrSoManyCameras :)
Thank you for your video. Barnacks are nice and weren't too expensive til recent. Lenses are another story 🌚
Thank you! Some Soviet lenses can be very cheap..
Hi, Matt. Have a beautiful Zorki 4 in a box. It took buying 4 crappy copies until I found it though lol. Also, have a Fed2, Zorki 2C [2], Zorki 4K, and a Kiev2 all with their original lenses. But I do like the little Zorki 1 with the Industar 22 50mm 1:3.5 lens, actually smaller than the Leica IIf and IIIf. Of course, it's all your fault I have all these hahaha
I also blame Matt, bcs of him I started buying Leica
@@eugene8524 Yes, I bought 2 Barnacks too. The Voigtlander Bessa L, the Leica M3... the list goes on hahaha
Hi Tom, thanks and sorry haha! At least they are not Leicas.. Soviet bodies are cheaper! You picked some good ones at least! ..and I was the same trying to buy decent Kiev cameras, it took me 3 or 4 duds!
Sorry Eugene! I hope you enjoy your Leica.
Great cameras! I might do a new Bessa vid soon.
Don’t forget the fabled unicorn “Leningrad” camera
Yes! Thanks for mentioning
Realy good video,side by side comparison ,everything is clear to me .And guys, I'm the guy that was born in USSR Latvia Riga.Ohh Lord when I was a child i use Zenit camera with 50mm F2.0 Helios 44-2 lens and of course FED 2 with stock lens.But now from 2009 my love Leica M9,M240,M10 all modern Zeiss Lenses F4-18,F2,8-21,F2.8-25,F2.8-28,F2.0-1.4-35,F1.5-F2.0-50,F4-85...for me Zeiss it is Passion-Soul ,guys what i can say ,my girl friend live me ,when she knows where i spend money hahhaha....
Thanks IIja and great to hear from a native USSR guy. I still want to visit Lativa. (I photo Lativian girls in UK but I still need to visit). I have the same Zenit + Helios 44-2! It was given to me. Great to hear you enjoy Zeiss. I have the 21&25mm and used to own the Sonnar ZM and Planar ZM.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom It would be great if you visited Latvia. I'm interested, maybe even in terms of joint creativity.just an exchange of experience, good acquaintances with a colleague.
Zorki-1 as always the best for me with Orion-15 and Jupiter-8.
Thanks Ben! Yes strong combo!
FED 3* (type b) is a very good option (I think its the best soviet rangefinder, prob the closest to Leica m2/3), cost me around £15 many years ago. Took sharper photos then my Leica M2 but it did need a CLA. Most people overlook Soviet built cameras and glass. They not all badly made far from it anything from the KMZ factory is high quality in fact. (also I am not bashing on Leica but these cameras are definitely overlooked).
Thanks Kurt! I always love it when the "underdog" performs as well at the top cameras. I have a soft spot for Soviet cameras. £15 is amazing!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom same here I have every m39 soviet lens made ;) + many m42 & cine lenses. but they are heavily used and abused.
Having owned the Leica IIIc, Fed 4 & Kiev 4 my favorite is the Kiev 4. Reasonably bright VF (for a Soviet camera), Leica-like quiet shutter, and long RF baseline for accurate focusing. BUT, they never had an advance lever like the Nikon S series, hinged back, VF diopter adjustment. And the Jupiter 8 lens leaves a lot to be desired. My favorite RF tho is the Canon 7 - selectable frame lines, parallax correction, accurate focusing, hinged back, thumb advance lever, excellent build quality, almost as cheap as Soviet junk.
Thanks George, have you found my videos on the Nikon S, Canon 7. Nice cameras but I still use the Kiev the most of those. Using the Tessar lens I reviewed recently and Sonnar etc.
I knew I wanted a Barnack Leica after getting an early Zorki. Even though the Zorki take up spindle would just not take up the film, so I could not actually take photos with it, I so enjoyed the handling, and the easy pocketability, that I swiftly went out hunting. I will say the Fed V series were availably quite cheaply, but they're comparatively loud and chonky to handle, and I wasn't as enamored of the shooting experience. And you've really got to watch your glasses - the viewfinder bezel retainer knurling on all the Soviets will scratch your glasses all to heck.
Thanks James, sorry to hear about your glasses and agree once you try a Soviet camera, then you can look to get a Leica and enjoy the experience that bit more.
Damn you and your channel for sending me down the rangefinder rabbithole!!! LOL
I just got a Zorki 4. As we spoke of earlier, I can see myself using a cheap zorki over a 1500 leica if I get mugged.
Ha thanks Andy, sorry! Welcome to the wonderful world of RF cameras! :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I actually purchased an xpro2 as my first ever mirrorless because I loved the focusing and hybrid viewfinder. Thing is: I fell in love with it, and simply made the decision to shoot everything in rf or in an xpro format. Also, I think as a street shooter, its good because you don't look like some stalker hiding your face behind a camera, takes the edge off of situations if part of your face is showing.
@@andychandler3992 great, they are the stepping stone to Leica M cameras :)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom so yeah it came and wow… I have a good copy, but it’s very different from the Barnack to say the least. I like the feel of the shutter and the fact I’m not dialating my eyes through two pinholes.
There's one last twist in the Contax story. The Western half of Zeiss Ikon re-engineered both the Contax cameras , from 1950-1961 and the lens range including the Sonnar,; not having the original tooling there are some differences.
Thanks JM, yes sorry if I crudely over simplified the differences, a Contax friend wrote to me after and said "don't you ever say they are the same camera haha" :)
Get Helios-103 lens for Kiev. Its a slightly faster version of Helios 44 and much sharper. On the other hand coating and contrast not the best.
Thanks! I have it. I still need to make a video sometime.
I purchased a zorky film camera in dute free Fiji about 45 years ago . It was a copy of a leica. The body work was nothing special but the lens were not bad . Zorky has a very interesting history. When the Russians invaded Germany and when they left it was with the Leica plans . They copied the leica .
Thanks! Yes the early FED1 and Zorki1 are copies of the early Leica iii cameras. Agree some lenses can be quite good.
Very very good video
Great pace and super detailed.
Interesting too.
Thanks for all the knowledges on these rare "Russian" cameras.
👌
Thanks! I quite enjoyed this one.
Great video, i have Zorki 5, great camera as well
Thanks!
The big advantage of the Zorki on the Kiev is the possibility to adjust the range finder. It is not that difficult. So if you buy a Kiev, check the range finder accuracy and hope it will never fail. Regarding shutter noise I prefer the Zorki 3 to the Zorki 4. In general the 3 feels better constructed and heavier. The 4 in comparison feels like a tin box. The 4 has definitely the best viewfinder.
Thanks for the info on the RF and the 3 vs 4. I've not tried a 3 yet.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom I am not sure that the 3 deserves it. I have a 3S( C in Russian) from 1956 and a 4 from 1973. The camera are very similar but the 3 is 20g heavier. The 4 is in better condition and the view finder ( and RF) is also better. I adjusted both RF but I think that the 17 years difference is detrimental to the 3S.
A question: do you organize teaching/shooting in Warsaw?
@@metphmet thanks for info. Yes I will teach in Warsaw next time I’m there. Please visit MrLeica.com and look at workshops and photowalks section. Join the mailing list to be notified 👍🏻
Granted, Zorki's horizontal adjustment is easier, and you can adjust its whole horizontal range without removing anything (which is not possible on Kiev) but its much more delicate. Bought my Zorki 4 and Kiev 3A on the very same day, repaired and CLA'd them both next day. Since then, I've never adjusted my Kiev 3A. Zorki? Easily 8+ times.
On Kiev, you CAN make small adjustments to rangefinder by removing 5+2 screws, without removing the top cover. Key difference is Kiev's rangefinder is much more robust. It has a single piece prism going through the length of camera, and then two pieces of glass sliding sideways mechanically linked to focus helicoid itself. Unless something is broken or someone assembled the camera wrong, its just impossible to go out of vertical alignment as sliding elements are cylinderical in cross section not spherical. Its also borderline impossible to go out of horizontal alignment (Gears have skip teeth or steel lever inside the camera must bend or something). Its accuracy isn't compromised when you change lenses.
In comparison, Zorki's rangefinder works with an exposed lever turning the mirror. Accidentally push that lever upwards/downwards, mirror's vertical alignment can shift. Then you have to remove top cover to adjust (or caveman style, pull that lever other way around and hope for the best). If cam piece at the end of the lever somehow rotates, you'll have varying accuracy with distance; ie good infinity focus but bad close ups. Switch lenses, (especially to a lens from different era or to a German lens) and horizontal alignment will shift and you have to readjust.
@@batuhancokmar7330 thanks for the great info! I knew the Kiev is said to be robust but thanks for explaining why. Sounds like my Z4 will by out in no time.
I have a zorki 3m. it's nicer than i expected
Great! Yes that are definitely excellent value for money I think
I have had a few Soviet cameras over the years (Zorki, Fed, Kiev) but every one has developed issues, and repairs are either impossible or just not cost effective. The most luck I had was with a brand new (bough early 1970's) Zorki, but even that gave up on me after about 4 years gentle use.
Soviet lenses can be a better, but it's still pot luck and I'd rather invest in Zeiss, Leica, Nikon or Canon glass than take the risk.
If money is tight I think Canon rangefinders (P, 7, etc.) offer better value and in my experience are much more reliable.
Having said all that, others have obviously had much better luck with Soviet cameras than I have, so YMMV!
Yes it can be hit and miss. I've had my Leica's professionally serviced (new shutters etc if needed) so I use my Leica Standard, Leica iii and Leica M cameras the most despite owning these cheaper cameras too. Yes for lenses too though the Canon ones fog up easily sadly.
Good video. I live in Belgium. 2 yrs ago I have been buying a few Zorki 4 and FED 3. The issue I have is to find a decent functioning copy, or to have them refurbished at a reasonable price. So I now ended up with a functional FED 3 that I purchased with a great Jupiter 8 lens. The Zorki's are waiting refurbishing, but so far the price I got is in the Leica range: €200-€300. Anybody out there with a good address ?
Thanks Marc! Yes agree on finding good copies. I think I bought 3 "bad" Kiev 4 variants before getting a good one. (See the full Kiev video). I have a list on Leica repair centres on MrLeica.com but not everyone will repair Soviet bodies as often it's cheaper to buy another copy.
Hi Matt,
It wasn't really fair to compare your Contax IIIa shutter sound with a Kiev. The IIIa (like the IIa) was a post-war design with a completely different shutter. There is no comparaison between the shutter sound of a Contax II/III/Kiev and a Contax IIa/IIIa. A Kiev, even the late ones is a beautiful camera but its ribbon pulled shutter doesn't have that clean clunk of a post war Contax IIa/IIIa. A big thumbs up on the Zorki 4 though which has a fantastic viewfinder/rangefinder.
Thanks Phil, sorry about the over-simplification. I should have grabbed a different Kiev for the shutter sound. Yes for the Zorki 4!
I have a Leica IIIf with Elmar 5cm f3.5 + Elmar 3.5 cm F3.5, a Zorky 6 with Industar 50mm f3.5, and a Canon P with 50mm f1.4 all based on LTM (M39). For my experience, whenever I try to exchange the lenses across the 3 bodies, I never get the infinite on focus. The M39 mount does not ensure full compatibility between bodies and the M39 lenses available on the market, you can only use these cameras with their original lenses, it's a shame.
Thanks Bruno, Yes I agree you normally get better results from matching "Soviet to Soviet" as it were but that said I use the Jupiter-12 on the Canon L3, and the Industar22 on the Leicas (just for testing). Fast glass on "wrong bodies" normally doesn't work.
By now Kiev4a ... the only one i have jejeje
Nice Rafa! All you need :)
5:25 most FED-2 cameras have this timer
Thanks for the info!
I'll never forgive my Kiev.
The metal eyepiece gouged out the coating on my glasses, cost more to replace them than it would to get another Kiev.
Which i'd have to do anyway, the rewind mechanism broke after one film. Heh
Oh no, sorry to hear Thomas! Yes a few others mentioned glasses
There's a Japanese eBay seller who makes stick-on covers for Kiev rangefinders to protect specs wearers from scratching their lenses while using the camera.
@@studiosnch great info thanks!
As always - a great video!
Thanks Ulf!
Very interesting! thanks Matt!
Thanks Lucy!
Would you have a recommendation for a 35mm focal length lens for the Kiev 4A? I am confused if those for the Contax/Kiev can also be mounted on the Nikon S rangefinders.
Yes, easy. Biogon 35mm f2.8 (I have a video I still need to do, maybe next month) ..wide Nikon S lenses should be OK, others not.
Brilliant loved this👍
Thanks!
I sold my Leica M2 & M3 and only use a Fed2 for film now 😮
Wow big move! I bet you are still happy with the photos though :) ..and richer!
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yeh, I have a nice black Jupiter 3 f1.5 on it so great images, and of course it’s the Leica glass that really breaks the bank
hey matt are the cameras hard to have serviced { in the usa}?
Hi, probably yes. It may be cheaper to just buy another camera. May shops don't touch Soviet stuff. (At least with old Leica you can get them serviced) See my Leica iii videos.
i am too caffeinated to sit through this right now. could someone, even Matt, tell me why one of them is better than my M6? I am all ears (or eyeballs) : )
Hi Ben, yes basically the Kiev 4 is much more accurate than a M6 (or any M though M3 is next best), as it has a more magnified RF /VF making it very easy to nail focus with fast glass. (If you've looked on Flickr at Leica photos half of them are blurry)(To be fair to Leica they are better than some other brands for focusing, and the older M6 0.85 is your best hope to nail focus if you dont want a M3 or..a Kiev.
I have seen your Kiev-taken photo of Gdansk in a couple of videos and like it very much. As to curtain sounds, I don't think one can say that the one model sounds better than the other. Each single camera sounds different, depending on curtain tension and other factors. Soviet "Leicas" are simply not very consistently built to begin with and may have suffered all sorts of abuse. In general they sound and feel clunkier than a Leica but the best specimens come reasonably close. The Kievs are in a different league and pre 70s Kievs can be very nice indeed (IF they still work). I recently added a gorgeous looking black painted Contax fake from Ukraine to my collection: lovely! -- If you can live with the simple advance knob (why not?), I'd recommend the much better built Zorki 4 (or 3c) over the 4K.
Thanks regarding my Gdansk Kiev photos. I must take the Kiev on another trip. A very fair point regarding shutter sound. There is no "better". Thanks for the info on the 4K.. I'll stick with the 4 (or just use Kievs..)
Hey i bought zorki 1 and the worker said that its working, but i keept loading film in and the film keeps tearing or being blank please can you tell me how can i know if its working and if it is why its nt shooting
Sorry to hear. If you load it correctly it should not tear/ not be blank. (if it's working) Try advancing the lever with no film in to check all moves OK inside. Make sure you press the rewind button before unloading your film.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom yeah everythings great it makes sound and all the parts are togheter
Is that a regular Kiev 4 or a 4a or something? What lens did you use for the landscapes?
Kiev 4a + Zeiss Sonnar 50mm f1.5 (I have various Kievs but that is the setup I use the most)
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Thx, for Contax mount I suppose :) I'll give it a try. If you are looking for a very cheap entry into medium format, Pentacon Six or Kiev 60 are great choices and the Zeiss lenses for P6 mount are absolutely stunning.
its almost impossible to find one of these working properly i'm afraid
I have no issues with FEDs and Zorki but finding working Kievs, yes. If you want one and in the UK message me via MrLeica.com
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom unfortunately i'm in greece,so there are customs now for items from UK :(
Magnification?
If you mean the viewfinder, the more magnified the bigger the subject looks in the VF so the easier it is to see and to focus. Bessa cameras have low magnification so are poor to focus accurately. The Kiev and a Leica M3 are high magnification so are some of the best for accurate focusing.
and which one is better than Leica M6?
In this video Kiev 4 if you didn’t watch that part, in next video another camera
sadly, no m bayonet...would love a Russian clone of M3 with actual m bayonet...
If they were M mount they'd cost £500-£1k not £50-£100 :) ..but yes agreed!
Fuck, so the Zorki had 4k already back in the 60s.
Haha nice!
for the price of a Leica you can have printed more than 10,000 photos; easy choice
Good point. I do enjoy my Kiev
Why are they so expensive?? 😬
Haha, they must have film in :P
There is no good soviet camera for someone wearing glasses 😅
No kidding! Scratched a pair of mine up terribly.
@@Skipsul same !
Use the diopter and take off your glasses!
@@taigenetsudo4273 Not all of them had adjustable diopters, sadly. But still, lesson learned.
I agree. However, with my Fed 2 or Mir, I take off my glasses and use the diopter correction. With my Kiev, Zorki 1, Fed 1 and Zorki 2C, I used a set of gasket hole punches and made up some doughnut shaped pieces to attach to the eyepieces (made from adhesive felt I purchased from Amazon). They work very nicely.
Not a fair test.
Thanks Mark, which brand is your favourite? I love all these old RF cameras (see video last night, I just got another)
I think the zorki 2c is my favourite. But as an everyday carrie you can't beet a Rollei 35B or a minalta A3.
@@markpedwell1250 mine was the 1931 Leica ia. Now it might be my 1934 iiif!
Soviet cameras: same level as the leicas and cheaper than
When they work yes! Repair guys often say the build is terrible inside but when they work they can be great fun.
Pity them are all modded copies of Leica and Contax. Not original design of soviet engineers. I do respect all the efforts and modifications our engineers have done for these versions and future SLR cameras, but... And we have lost any development of cameras, since we stuck at mechanical film cameras in 2000. Even now in 2024 Ricoh declared and produced new age film camera and Russia has zero production of film cameras. Shame.
Thanks. I still love the Kiev 4s design so I just got an original Contax II to go with them.
@@MattOsborne-MrLeicaCom Original Contax is other story
I wouldn’t buy anything Russian , do you know they invaded Ukraine!
Thanks Steve, yes fair point. I try to look at all cameras and lenses as stand alone objects but I get similar comments when I post videos on Chinese lenses.
Just make sure not to buy them from Russia, not like they’re produced anymore, but yeah certainly don’t give money to Russians
Do you know we are talking about Soviet equipment, not Russian equipment? There are a lot of people in Ukraine selling this old camera gear. So, your boycott is actually hurting Ukrainians.
I happily buy old Soviet gear from sellers in Ukraine right now. They need all the help we can give them.
FEDs and Kievs are made in Ukraine, if that helps. And if you do want to help, buy from Ukrainian sellers.