Panpsychism and other theories of consciousness
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- čas přidán 10. 11. 2019
- What is consciousness?
What do you think of panpsychism?
This excerpt is from a video by The Institute of Art and Ideas, reproduced with permission.
For more views on these questions - from professor of philosophy Phillip Goff, cognitive psychologist Donald Hoffman, philosopher James Ladyman and professor of religion Mary-Jane Rubenstein - watch the full video:
• What is Panpsychism? |...
For more on panpsychism and conciousness watch the debate between Rupert Sheldrake, George Ellis and Amie Thomasson:
• Understanding Consciou...
Dr Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. At Cambridge University he worked in developmental biology as a Fellow of Clare College. He was Principal Plant Physiologist at the International Crops Research Institute for the Semi-Arid Tropics and From 2005 to 2010 was Director of the Perrott-Warrick project, Cambridge.
Rupert's latest book:
Ways to Go Beyond And Why They Work
www.sheldrake.org/books-by-ru...
IAI is The Institute of Art and Ideas
Philosophy for our times: cutting edge debates and talks from the world's leading thinkers.
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'...illusion is itself a mode of consciousness....' Thank you for that bit.
I was just thinking today what a treasure Rupert is and now this video pops up! His interview with Jeffrey Mishlove for Thinking Allowed decades ago was legitimately life changing for me.
Right after watching this a tune popped into my head-
I could while away the hours Conferrin' with the flowers, Consulting with the rain; And my head I'd be a scratchin' While my thoughts are busy hatchin' If I only had a brain.
You're a guru , meaning one who dispels darkness. Thank you thank you thank you
Right on, Rupert. Once again, your courage and insight inspires. Thank you.
Thank you, Sir. Absolutely my Favorite kind of conversation!
The universe is alive, everything has a substrate of connection, and we emerge, expand and go back up through the middle on a glorious eternal cycle, it occurs to me.
What is glorious about suffering? Children with cancer? People bullied to suicide? Sexual abuse?
You're a glib, self-centred moron.
@Htx457 I wasn't really getting caught up in semantics. It is clear that he thinks it is all rather marvellous, whereas I am of the opinion that it is horrendous and if I could find a way to stop it all, I gladly would. Peace.
@@DO-NOT-WATCH Well thank you very much, anonymous coward - we can exchange insults all day long, and I suspect this is more your style, which is why you experience life as suffering, wake up and understand you are alive, it is easy enough to jump off if you hate it that much.
@@Deliquescentinsight it is not just about you or me bozo, it is about the victims who are suffering so grotesquely and yet cannot call for help, cannot find any solace, cannot get any reprieve. Your head is so far up your own backside that you have neglected to see the unsolvable suffering of others. No, you kiss and lick your own arsehole, chortling at how wonderful life is, without even a second thought for the victims of this meat grinder of an existence. You disgust me.
Antinatalist Outreach the truth of the matter is that you can look at it both ways. One way everything is growing in glory and the other is dying In decay. Neither of you are wrong. Of course it is up to you which side you focus on. But there is a happy medium. There is beauty is decay and ugly is glory. It is a grand play of infinite opposites, a beautiful paradox.
It fascinates me the question of emerging consciousness being different.
Thank you Rupert
Thank you so much for sharing this. Belief is the lack of KNOWING.... This world view is the most fulfilling and logical view I've considered to date.. " I'm still growing".. I do know ( I am ) a Spiritual being having a physical experience. I've been searching for answers to many questions for 50 years. I come from a classical Christian world view however this left me empty and more confused. Many questions could not be answered by my pastor or bible teacher's and often my questions convicted me that I had a lack of faith ( Just believe ) I was born in this world with a mind that does not allow me to live life in simple belief. I have serious questions The Holy Bible told me to test all things & let no man deceive you. I feel I've allowed myself to be deceived and miss led my entire life because ( I ) sought out and trusted in man to lead me & did not trust myself or my own experience. Most people are continent with a surface understanding, general knowledge but that left me wanting and empty.. I need more to fill fulfilled. So I am on a journey to seek out Knowledge and experience in my own life to answer MY questions. I'm determined to gain what I'm lacking and in need of thru my own Life experience. I want to know not only believe. A new beginning and adventure we call life. Thank you again, For opening the door for those of us who seek more.
one of the few who really understands it!
I just wish people followed the truth and reason instead of sheltering under a materialist view for comfort and fear of the unknown...
I just wish people like you were not so smug and arrogant in assuming that only you know how things 'really are' and have some kind of perfect monopoly on reason. I wish you would not just blithely assume that you know how and why those who disagree with you are really thinking like you are a telepath. I wish you would realise that although these ideas seem interesting, there is no verifiable evidence to support them.
astrophonix I wish you saw how by saying what you say, you prove my point.
Sorry, but to start with, Sheldrake himself has given factual proof of what you say "there is no factual evidence".
Second, sorry, but wishing for people to open their minds is not being smug. Mine was an honest wish.
Third, I am ready to discuss.
And here we go; hoe can a system that denies the existence of something which may not be found by the means it chooses to use ever get to the point of discovering it?
Let us be specific; materialism denies that anything exists outside the material world, but then requires material evidence to prove its existence. Do you see where the contradiction lies?
The fact is that even where evidence is given, it either ignores it or openly derides it. But never actually looks at it.
Sorry if you thought my post was smug; it was not meant to be.
But you may wish to engage with the argument, rather than giving value judgement on the tone of a comment.
Do you deny that materialism gives many people a safety, a certainty in their opinion which they do not wish to abandon?
Do you deny that many people literally refuse to even consider that there could be an alternative?
So why would you not wish for them to be less close minded? Do you not regard close mindedness a flaw (if involuntary) and open mindedness a virtue and a benefit?
And may I point out another little thing: you state that I say I know how things 'really are', this is a straw man fallacy (imply something in the argument the interlocutor did not say and reply to that): rather, saying that a world view is limited does not imply that one's own world view is how things really are, nor that I know them all.
You apply to me what actually is the materialist point of view: we know that materialism is correct and all the rest does not exist (this is materialism) and accuse me of exactly what I point out as a flaw in the materialist world view.
Now, in your sentence, you immediately deny the existence of evidence: can I suggest some? Will you look at it with real scepticism (which I trust you know does not mean "intention to debunk")?
The intention to debunk, the denial at all costs of a point (even when compelling) can only be attributed to the unease people feel in leaving their paradigm, or it is in the vast majority of cases, and I can point to psychological studies on this, and not one... So, why would I be wrong to evince that an attitude which I have often encountered is caused (in many cases, note I said "people" which is undeterminate) by the cause Science says is a major if not THE major cause for such attitude?
You see, the problem with materialism is not that it says "the material world exists", but "only the material world exists". So it is one of those theories that falls irredeemably when even a single example can be found. It's like saying, "all dogs bark", if a dog that does not bark is founds the proposition is FALSE. This is logic, which is the mathematics of words,nit is not an opinion.
So, if the evidence that something non material is found, materialism falls immediately.
But the evidence has been found, and for centuries if not millennia, but materialists either look the other way or avoid it with a series of fallacies.
Are you ready?
I am about to give you ONE piece of evidence that surely is NOT material. I have many...
The Observer Effect in Quantum Theory.
Now, no use saying "I want material evidence of a non material event". That is not acceptable by logic. But we have a material effect that cannot in any way happen without a non material cause: Consciiousness.
Denying Consciousness is impossible by any logical standards; one cannot end the thing one uses to deny it.
Materialism is a paradox.
I am ready to give you many more examples, from all fields of knowledge and science, and even from everyday life; in fact, the evidence that materialism is a FALSE proposition is almost everywhere.
So, is it so bad to which that people looked at such evidence?
Then we may enter the cultural-historical factors for such attitude, and I am ready to argue that it comes from fear.
But we may leave this to a later moment.
Where's the evidence that "the Sun is conscious" then?
I've seldom heard such utter bollocks from someone who claims to be intelligent.
@@losttango Evidence? Well, the observer's effect (which is not just a Quantum Physics phenomenon) make Planck conclude that there is mind (and consciousness) in all the universe, and that is not "an opinion", it is a necessity, a mathematical, physical, logical and philosophical necessity.
And that is based on much bigger, more tested, etc... evidence than most theories are based on, and many theories derive their foundations on the same epistemic principle of necessity.
So, if there is Consciousness in in all the universe, why should you assume the Sun is the exception?
@@adrianobulla7875 The Observer Effect most certainly doesn't prove there is "consciousness in all the universe". All it proves at the moment is that we haven't fully understood reality. Or indeed consciousness.
www.bbc.com/earth/story/20170215-the-strange-link-between-the-human-mind-and-quantum-physics
I think language holds us back from spiritually evolving. Some things that you experience just can't be adequately conveyed through language for some.
Yes. As a child I preferred the company of animals because they did not use words. It felt like too many words made "puppet strings" into my mind.
I can imagine Terrence McKenna being asked what it's like to be the most intelligent and conscious scholar in the world that he might reply that maybe you should ask Rupert Sheldrake! AHO! Bless
dropped a heavy thick bottomed glass 2am parents jumped out of bed looking for intruders exactly same time they live 6 miles away and father is stone deaf without hearing aids which he removes to sleep
Excellent..... thanks 🙏
Thanks ! Namaste !
I would pay bottom dollar to see a discussion between Rupert Sheldrake and William Dembski (wrote Being as Communion).
It’s the awareness in which everything appears.
He says that the universe is more like an organism than a machine, but an organism seems to be a kind of machine.
Now THIS is what a true Scientist looks like!
How are things with no brain conscious?
Consciousness is an omnipresent multidimensional field surrounding us Humans, of which we are able to grasp only fractions of it, depending to the amount of life force (or vital energy, ch'i, prana shakti) that someone has from birth and s/he didn't spent in one's life. Therefore, consciousness is consisted of various levels and qualities, and according to one's level of psychic absorption, the definition may vary greatly from one person to another ~
_When there is an ending of all that, the consciousness that we know of, as it is - you are following this? - the consciousness is its content. Right? Are you following this? One's consciousness is your anxiety, your grumbling, your guilt, your - all this is you, your consciousness. The content of that consciousness makes it; without this content the consciousness as we know it, is totally different. You understand? Not being able to empty our consciousness of its content we then begin to invent a super consciousness, higher consciousness, subliminal consciousness and so on, so on, so on. It is still the movement of thought._ - J. Krishnamurti, Public Talk 5 Ojai, California, USA - 21 April 1979
if matter is not divisible
then how its virtual reality
watched
Sri Ramana Maharshi
I want to marry this man's mind.
I Think the sun must have or have had some kind of consciousness as well
Panpsychism is like Cuisine, Everyone's got their Individual Preferences...
Troward taught this
The hole universe is the god we seek itts the top of all collective consciousness......
IS DOT MY MANTIS FRIEND CONSCIOUS. ... YES. AWARE...YES SINCE IT CAN LEARN CERTIAN THINGS. UNDERSTAND ? WHEN I SAY HAMBURGER .. POSSIBLY. A SPIRIT? WHAT... YOU WANT *ALL THE ANSWERS* (DOT LOOKS UP, RAISES AN ANTENNA...)
Thinking is a state of consciousness.
No Law applies to thinking.
That is why experinece format understands that I am experiencing myself
Watch Grandmaster Wolf videos and then think about everything.
Panpsychism is pretty much on the right track, so to speak, but it seems to be intentionally trying to meet materialism somewhere in the middle, purely out of safety alone. A straight up Idealism based metaphysics such as Bernardo Kastrup's Alters is what currently connects the most dots by FAR imo.
What is it that he Say? I don't understand the meaning of his preach. I know the words but not see anything yo what he is point at.
Hmmm ... the mind underlying the cosmos ... isn't that an impossibility where trillions of minds exist and even Hydrogen atoms and all other matter are themselves conscious? It will always remain that David (myself) is tiny compared to the cosmos and while love tells me that I am everything, wisdom tells me that I am nothing and while it can be huge in the moment ego is ultimately irrelevant when in the presence of so many conscious minds all simultaneously. No matter how faint, the background noise of life is ever present and very likely yes, there are some underlying concepts and mind sets that do form a type of eternal morality of existence itself, or any other commonality to all life would also be ever present and paramount in the tinyness of this ever present background noise.
I don't think commonality is a mind unto itself, it is fed by everything.
A debate between Dr. Sheldrake and Richard Dawkins would be interesting...
Dawkins would demolish him, of course. But the woo-woo crowd wouldn't realise it, so what would be the point?
Panpsychism does not make sense to me. We have thousands of accounts of consciousness surviving death and not needing the body. Makes more sense to take a monist view, where all reality derives from consciesness, and the material is it's creation.
So what ever makes me feel good is true? I see a lot of problems there
We wallow in a nineteenth-century materialism, you say, and your prescription is a millennia-old spiritualism, complete with meaningless appeals to overarching teleologies designed to make us feel better. I am all for animism of my own sort, but this last bit is just intolerable - you start out with reasonable comments that might prompt discussion and slide rapidly into limp religion.
I'm not sure what the "reasonable comments" were. Asking materialists to define consciousness is one thing, making evidence-free statements about reality is another.
Somebody help this guy with his hair!! Yikes!
What the hell...and what is wrong with his hear? He is fine...