Is Israel Really God's Chosen People? ***This week's podcast answers this and more!***
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- 00:50 Unboxing the World's Smallest Bible (Reviewing product from tinybibles.com)
11:55 Is Israel Really God's Chosen People? (Responding to a Facebook Message)
32:29 Should I Try to Reform My Church? (Responding to an Email)
47:55 Is Calvinism Heresy? (Responding to a Voicemail)
This week on Conversations with a Calvinist, Keith responds to a few questions from listeners, as well as a voicemail calling him a heretic. He also does the first "unboxing" of a product sent in for him to review. - Zábava
Great video once again. So sorry you gotta deal with all those ridiculous heresy accusations, I get them too. It should encourage you that the guy accusing you of heresy was not talking like a Christian at all in that message.
Bro, thanks so much for your encouragement. It means a lot.
It's not replacement theology, it's fulfillment theology.
Sorry to say this, but my first honest reaction was, “Oh! My daughter’s doll can have her own Bible. “. 😊
Hah! It's definitely best suited for people who struggle to read large print.
Thank you for this video.
My first few years as a Christian I was inundated with Dispensational preachers like John MacArthur, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, Adrian Rogers and many others. All GREAT men of God! But as I read my bible I always thought the two comings of Christ (ie Secret Rapture) and the "Time Clock" regarding Israel, made no sense! But I figured who was I to challenge these bible teachers.
Then, about five years into studying my bible, I hear R. C. Sproul on these matters and it was like a light coming on!
I said "YES! THAT is what scripture teaches."
One MAJOR issue that Dispensationalism has is it's erroneous dichotomy;
Literal interpretation vs "Spiritual" interpretation.
The biblical dichotomy is;
Earthly Natural vs Heavenly Spiritual, BOTH Literal!
Paul lays out this principle in 1 Corinthians 15 when he contrasts Adam, the "earthly" man and Jesus, the "heavenly" man!
He tells us
*The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual*
Likewise, we see this principle all through scripture with an "Israel after the flesh" vs "Israel of God," Jerusalem BELOW, (which is in bondage) and the Jerusalem ABOVE (WHO IS THE MOTHER OF US ALL), Earthly circumcision (made by hands) vs Heavenly circumcision (made without hands, by the spirit), Earthly throne of David (which was cast to the ground (psalm 89)) vs the HEAVENLY Throne of David (where Jesus sits NOW (Hebrews 8:1))
OT Israel was in ADAM.
The Old Covenant was by works; "If a man DOES these things he will live."
They failed because "By works of the law shall no flesh be justified."
But the SECOND Adam, the TRUE Israel (Isaiah 49), the ONE SEED to whom the promises were made, will NOT fail And "ALL of God's promises IN CHRIST" *ARE* "Yes" and "Amen!"
Hebrews is called "The book of BETTER things."
The OT were "shadows" and the things in the NEW Covenant are "Realities" found in Christ!
Dispensationalism wants to take us back to shadows, while overlooking the CURRENT realities!
Wait so now we can officially say that the King James is a trash can Bible that was recovered and restored? 😂 Love it. Thanks for the review Keith! Good insights there. We are actually right now working on prototyping a better lens to assist with readability. Appreciate all the feedback from you and the community! God bless.
Thank you for sending it! May God bless you as you seek to get His Word out.
I was fascinated with some antique tiny bibles and prayer books at a collectors shop a few years back. I love what you're doing!
The issue with how a nondispensational view is presented is that some will hear "Israel must become us" when really the two people are made into something new.
I've mentioned it before in other places, but it is both kind of funny, and kind of sad, how enraged some people get by Calvinism; this voicemail is yet another example of that. And in most cases, they're either unable or unwilling to demonstrate any real understanding of the teaching they're attacking.
Your channel is called "Conversations with a Calvinist," for heaven's sake. If someone is going to be upset by Calvinism--as so many are--why not just go to a different channel? It's not like there aren't lots of alternatives. But I guess their comments still help the algorithm...
Exactly. If you don't like it, go somewhere else!
On the serious side,
this was the exact type of video I needed to watch. I’ve been thinking a lot about your comments prior to the video about Israel and God’s plan for them. My thoughts were the same that you had, if they reject Christ they are no different than anybody else. We are saved by faith through Jesus Christ alone, and he completed everything the father had him to do that Israel did not do. In fact, he is the true Israel, and we are all adopted in the family of God through him.
Your comments on the church for your second question was extremely helpful to. Our pastor helped out my wife and I in our marriage over five years ago by using God’s word. No other Pastor would do that. Even though I have disagreements with their dispensationalism, they are reformed. I know that in our disagreements we could open up the Bible together and speak in love and express our differences and still be brothers. Thank you Keith for your ministry.
Romans 11
Had the Israel discussion with my Dad the other day. Tried to explain to him exactly what you said(wasn’t as clear and concise as you) but now i apparently hate Israel. The voice message you received is also something my Dad would say minus the expletives. Informed all reformers need to be done away with! 😢
I'd appreciate the thoughts of those who are more learned than I am (I've been Reformed for less than a year) on the way I have attempted to define "God's Chosen People": God's chosen people are those whose faith is credited to them as righteousness. Those whose faith is credited to them as righteousness are those who have been chosen of God before Creation to be regenerated and have that faith in the first place.
Runnin hot three and a half months in id say just do your best you can and when ya can’t. Give thanks for what ya can do and pray For more strength and knowledge till yer dun doing what ya gotta do... And remember the stone that the builder refused... will allwaze be. Never finished working...
Honestly this would work great for missionaries in hostile countries or even households that are against Christ.
I think it'd work a bit better if the Bible's cover had a pouch to put the eyeglass in it (it'd protect the eyeglass as well as help it from getting lost).
They should also add a plastic rim or something around the glass or even a little handle. That would help prevent the eyeglass from getting lost (because now you're not just looking through clear glass) as well as give assistance towards the eyeglass maintenance (it'd lessen The smudging that your hands would put on the glass).
If I end up buying one of those (and I'm thinking seriously about it), I'd buy a small magnifying glass to put in the bag along with the bible. Even the cheap ones from the dollar store would probably work.
Those tiny bibles are an excellent idea for places where they can't access the Word
That was my first thought too. Closed countries where they aren’t legally allowed to have the Bible.
It does kinda mention that on their website.
Seeing as you can literally slip that little book anywhere on your person
@missionarypilot88 this is one of those cases where I responded along with the video as I watched it. 😆
Having gone through more of your video now at the point of you finishing your point on the Church being Israel: I fully agree and find myself also considering how John the Baptist addressed the Pharisees by noting that God could make sons of Abraham of stones if He willed it. The genetic bloodline confers no special grace that would make one "God's people" but per John the Baptist and Hebrews 11: it is the faithful.
God did it primarily through a bloodline to the point of Jesus Christ, but now we are bound in His blood instead of our own blood.
Ethnic Israelite blood and Gentile blood are both trumped by the blood of Jesus Christ.
Your preaching and teaching is top notch! We miss you since we moved and you are universally adored… in my home at least you are! 😂
I miss y’all too brother! Hope to see you again soon.
Oh you grew up in a Disciples church and you actually reformed it!! I was baptized, married and ordained an Elder in a Disciple of Christ but had to leave when the new pastor and most of my fellow elders would not uphold the Biblical standard for marriage in church by laws. I would have had a milestone around my neck had I continued in that church leader ship. It still was a hard exodus for my family and others with even deeper roots in that church. Sometimes leaving is spiritual necessity and other times it is church shopping for family reasons. We did change once for our kids needs but knew it wasn't a theology issue. My heart goes out to the listener debating reform or leave. I know when we moved when our oldest was a baby, finding a church with a cry room for nursing moms was a God send. Pray they find the right solution.
Worship is for the strengthing and gathering of the saints ( that’s where the focus should be. ) if a visiting unbeliever comes to Christ as a result all glory be to God
Exactly. This is, I think, the key problem with so many churches today: they just don't understand what they're supposed to be doing on Sunday. The worship service is where God's people gather to offer to him appropriate public worship. Yes, there will be unbelievers present. Yes, if the word is being preached properly they will be called to faith and repentance. But that isn't--or shouldn't be--the point of the service.
Great video brother. I really enjoyed your explanation of Dispensational belief and how Reformed Christians view modern day Israel. I also appreciate the pastoral heart you displayed in helping the brother who is considering switching or attempting to reform his church. Talk soon!
That caller is quite the meanie, lol You handled the criticisms (unwarranted criticisms) quite well Pastor Foskey. Also, he is a coward for not leaving his name.
Bro, you may be wrong on baptism, but you're no heretic. 😉😇 One of the things I loved about Ligonier in the Sproul ERA was how differences were handled amicably and with humor. I get the same Philadelphia vibe with Doug Wilson and James White. Love those sweater vest dialogs.
Hold fast Amigo.
For backpacking I think the waterproof Bible is a better option. It’s bulkier and heavier but it is almost indestructible.
Sorry for three comments, but at least you know where I'm at in the video lol
I've watched some of your sermons online, or I've at least listened to portions of them driving to and from work. I have never heard you proclaim any form of workspace salvation, nor have I ever seen any slander of other believers in your sermons or videos.
Thank you for handling the slanderer with Grace, I pray that he doesn't end up turning into someone who harasses you, and I pray that he can come down from whatever high horse he is iding. God bless you both.
My church has a believing Christian family that happens to be Jewish. This is the fulfillment of God's plan.
I agree with many points of Reformed theology, but will never understand why they think God's promises no longer apply to Israel. And yes, it is replacement theology, because either God's promises are forever or they are not. I can also see why so many in our country have turned their back on Israel.
My daughter is obsessed with miniatures. This bible will make her dollhouse a Godly home, lol. Best of all, she will have to read it, because she is the only one in the house with good enough eyesight!
Dude. I already have to use a magnifier for the NET Bible notes. I have note taking ESV and an NIV Study Bible in large print. In my teens my eyes were not the best let alone my 40s. I have zero hope w/ something like that. I can see if being useful as you said w/ hostile govts. Otherwise the smartphone rules on this matter. If I need another translation or whatever I pull my phone out. Interesting video as always.
That tiny bible reminds me of when I found a hot sauce bottle called “wrath of God” with a mini bible smaller than that included, was partially readable but was missing the book of revelation.
😂😂 that's funny tho.
Is the Lutheran Bow Tie Dialogue still happening?
Working on it, and thanks for asking. I am having trouble getting it scheduled.
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist got it! Looking forward to it!
I disagree with many things you say, I am a pentecostal. However, I think there is orshould be room for disagreement in the family and you have given me food for thought. Thanks.
Thank you for watching and for the comment. I understand believers can disagree on these things and welcome your input. Blessings!
I feel like the Bible App. kinda destoys the argument for a "Travel Bible". lol
Hey Keith, I hate to burst the bubble of whomever printed that Bible. But my dad used to use the world's tiniest Bible. He had a Bible that was printed entirely on a single slide only a few square inches in size. He worked night shift in a hospital laboratory and would read his Bible through the microscope (the only way to read that Bible) during his downtime. Each page appeared as a single dot to the naked eye.
wow!
Whoa, that's amazing. Also, it's a great way to look like you're working on something but doing something else!😂
I’m like you, I grew up in a dispensational environment (I’m charismatic, so I dare say I’ve had it more than you, even 😅). I absolutely loved your explanation of “Who is God’s people”.
The accusations: That's replacement theology!
The rebuttal: No, that's the Old Testament, fulfilled by Christ in the New Testament, i.e. the Bible. God's Holy Word.
Great video Pastor! 👍🏻🙏🏻
Not without Jesus their not.
Ŷoure mad funny my Brutha 😅 i just stumbled upon you because you debated the heretical post mill view (jk) vs Douglas Wilson. Im studying a-mill and historic pre-mill and hate that im so on the fence!! But your stuff is funny, yet solid. I just subbed w notifications on. God Bless
Thanks for not supporting Stealth Calvinism my brother ❤. My last church went thru an ugly take over by folks who give good people like you a bad reputation in the Non-Calvinist/Provisionist community. Your content is such a blessing and makes me laugh out loud 😂
The tiny Bibles would be a great evangelism tool for those in countries where the Bible is banned. Easy to keep hidden/stow away.
Ah. Another non controversial discussion for open borders October I see.
Did a great job brother.
What seminary did you attend?
Jacksonville Baptist Theological Seminary jbtsem.com
I don't think these Bibles are meant for ordinary use, but rather for smuggling situations - prisons and non- accessible countries.
I also don't know how to handle family integration at my church, as I love this church and the congregation. I am a new member so I don't feel right addressing it. I am ok with babies and toddlers in service, and do offer a nursery room for parents who want to use it; I like that more then how I grew up in children's church. But some families allow their kids to stay in service as they scream for 10-15 mints straight. Or they leave and come back a minute later and the baby starts right back up again...for 20 minutes... I've missed entire sermons because I can't hear and focus. That can't be the right way to allow family integration, is it?
There definitely has to be some management from the leadership in situations like that. We have had to have conversations with parents whose children were especially distracting. We provide rooms to go into, for training, to help them manage their little ones. But it still happens from time to time. I ask our congregation to be gracious with each other as they work through the situation
There are four reasons I've heard protestants call Calvinism heresy:
1. Thinking eternal security gives false assurance
2. Confusing good works as evidence vs cause of salvation (or saying that evidence implies cause)
3. The belief that faith and assurance are one and the same, and that limited atonement prevents objective assurance
4. Confusing Calvinism and Lordship salvation or a work-based mindset, sometimes related to 2
2 and 4 are just misunderstandings (the voicemail author makes one of these misunderstandings). 1 does not reasonably give rise to claims of heresy (Trent does but no protestant cares). My understanding is that 3 misunderstands the nature of faith. However, I still understand assurance as objective (1 John 5:13 for example) so I struggle with limited atonement.
1. Eternal security is in fact a heretical view. Calvnism cannot explain passages like this:
Hebrews 10:26
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,”
It clearly states one can loose their salvation by deliberate sin. If this were not true then this passage would never need to be in the Bible.
2. Good works are indeed a cause of your justification and not merely a result or your saved status. If it were true that good works are only evidence of your justification and not a cause of justification then there would be no way to understand other passages in the Bible which talk about justification by your good works James 2:24 or how eternal life is rendered not according to your faith, but according to your good works as Paul outlines in Romans.
3. Limited atonement is outright heretical and there is no refuting that it is not. Christ died for everyone. This alone proves calvinism is just false.
1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
That pretty much disproves limited atonement.
4. Calvinism doesn't have any theology to understand the role works play in justification (not by faith alone). It doesn't understand that your salvation is merit based, we know this because eternal life is called a gift, but it's also referred to as our reward.
Nobody gets a reward for doing nothing. Saint Paul understands this and that's why writes to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Not confidence of eternal security as Calvin/Keith believes.
@@dman7668 I said "protestant" objections. I'm not gonna engage with people that don't affirm sola fide. And 2-4 are related to an opposite view to what you trying to even argue for.
@@maxxiong Sola Fide cannot be affirmed because James 2:24 states justification is not by faith alone.
We also learn works are not merely evidence of your saved status, but a cause of your justification and that James 2:24 wasn't talking about justification before men, but before God specifically.
Starts at 12:00
The man who left the voice mail is not a man of God. He is an angry and wicked man.
Don’t you make a pilgrimage to a knife store annually. How is it you have no knives on you for an unboxing
That is funny and so true!!! I should always have a knife handy! I am ashamed ;-)
There is some incredible irony in someone claiming Calvinism is heresy in an expletive-laden voicemail. I get the sense that the caller doesn't know what Calvinism is.
Thank you for truth - the old is revealed in the new - people read your Bible's the Israel of God come through Christ a eternal kingdom - read angel talking to Mary - we the believers are the seed non believing jews are flesh - you give all what God wrought for you in Christ to national Israel (the flesh) - the line went from David to Christ - (spiritual seed) -God is able to seperate the tares and wheat - they follow after their own kind - there is only one gospel if you put national Israel above the word you are making God a respective of persons - who believes in the Christ has God - national Israel does not have favor with God - all men everywhere have to repent -
"All israel will be saved" - Paul
I think the caller was Andrew Dice Clay with that potty 🚽 mouth. Or my father-in-law
ummm those tiny bibles are way expensive. it's a novelty thing.
There are currently millions of people who are simply cultural Christians and are still lost, headed to hell. These cultural Christians are no better off than an ethnic Jew who does not trust in Christ for the forgiveness of his sins. Jews who lived 3000 years ago were not saved by their physical heritage, (circumcised flesh); They were only saved if they trusted in God’s provision for the forgiveness of their sins. (They were looking ahead to the Cross in the day of atonement) Was salvation available to the non ethnic Jew 3000 years ago? The answer is yes, salvation has always been the same since the fall, Able trusted in what God said and offered the sacrifice. Job offered sacrifices, he was not a Jew, but righteous. The Samaritan woman at the well, including all her townsfolk were saved by believing what Jesus said, just like Abraham when he believed God. Remember, there is only a partial hardening of Israel now. When the fullness of the Gentiles is reached this hardening will be lifted. Also the Bible tells us that in the end times a deluding spirit will cause the whole world to follow the antichrist, only the elect will not be fooled. Perhaps these “Elect”, not fooled, will be primarily come from ethnic Israel after the fullness of the Gentiles is reached…
I would love to see a presentation about all the End Times views without a person grinding the axe for their view, or assuming we all know the inside terminology.
You seem to be doing that.
Just curious, are you saying that I am using inside terminology or that I’m not? I was trying to make things clear, I hope I didn’t come across confusing. I would be happy to work on a video explaining the Anytime views, if folks think that would be helpful.
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist no, sorry for misunderstanding, you doing were doing fine and stopping to explain terms to those who don’t know the inside baseball. I find it very helpful.
When you were in Romans 11, you were saying they are "no better off" as far as their eternal destiny, and that is true, but there is a clear distinction made between the natural branches (physical descendants) and wild branches (Gentiles). I see no way that could be referring to those who are in Christ and those who are not when read in the context of Romans 11. Would Paul have been telling believers (who it seemed you thought were the "natural" branches in the end) to not be arrogant towards believers because they, too could be cut off? When he says "how much more" could the natural branches be grafted back in instead of God doing what is contrary to nature, there's no other way to interpret it besides physical descendants of Abraham are still the natural branches. To say there is absolutely no distinction is, I believe, wrong. When the Bible says there is neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free, does that mean the distinction is wiped away or that we are all one and equal in Christ?
ROMANS 11:
25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
I view it as we are all one in Christ Jesus, but outside of Christ there is still a difference between the two, a Jew having better knowledge of and closeness to God than a Gentile, and I believe Romans 11 says the Jews will be saved in the end. Due to their forefathers... which makes no sense when referring to Gentiles.
I believe the Church is the fulfillment of many of the promises, and I would never call modern-day Israeli Jews "God's chosen people," but I think many people are taking this way too far presently (not you) and being arrogant towards the natural branches, when Paul said they should be in fear instead of doing so.
Thanks for that food for thought.
I would agree with this
tell me how is the people, that Jesus said -you will not see me again till you say Blessed is that comes in the name of the Lord, zeck- 14
Spent the last 57:00 minutes listening to only about 10 minutes of the topic
If you take the bible literally, but we are going to literarily interprete obscure, figurative language that is hard to pin down it's exact nature, but the four horsemen aren't actually men on horses. 🤪🤪
Oy bey shut it down!
We can leave the king Jommy alone. ESV, NASB,HCS,NIV. Just no King James, no Passion, and no gay agenda Bibles. God's choosen people is the church. Both Jew and Gentile. They were at one point in time but now it's the church. The brother is out of line. He needs to submit himself before for forgiveness.
Sorry Brother, 2 Points off your Man Card for Not Having Your Handy Pocket Knife Handy....
Haha, I am ashamed!
@@ConversationswithaCalvinist One Point RETURNED For Prompt and Appropriate response ....Well Done.
chosen people? nope not even close.
I get the concept of a tiny Bible kept from a tyrannical government but today, you can go on your phone to pull up the Bible.
For now! Remember how Parler disappeared overnight?
@@tinybibles I don't know - there are wayyyy too many apps/websites with the Bible on it. IT looks like Rumble has replaced Parlor.
@@princessofarchetypes3870 Fair. And yet, North Korea has found a way to pull it off.
@@tinybibles I guess anything goes in that country!!! These are perilous times!!
Be aware that they could shut down the Internet someday. Or remove all Christian content. We need to have paper books and paper Bibles.
No, they aren’t.
People who are saved are God’s chosen people.
Most anti-Calvinists, in my experience: Acts 7:57
All* anti-Calvinists. There’s a difference between a non-Calvinist and an anti-Calvinist. All anti-Calvinists play into Acts 7:57.
Calvinists god is supposedly wrathful at sinners for rejecting his gospel, a rejection he himself decreed.
If you're wrong about Calvinism being correct that makes you wrong on God's character. You claim to know and love God but could be completely wrong about his character
"If" being the operative word.
@@douglasmcnay644 if He's wrong it's through his own volition if he's correct about Calvinism being true then it's through God's eternal decree so would be my disbelief of Calvinism being true.
@@plumber1874. You’ll find out one day.
I disagree with you about Israel being God's chosen people, Israel is God's chosen people, He said that the sun and moon will be disappear before His promise with Israel be void, if God rejected Israel, then how do you now God that God would not lie to to about salvation, Israel as God chosen people is prophetic, it has nothing to do with the Jews salvation now.
They don't believe in the resurrection
So they're not
@@goyonman9655 your wrong, the Jews do believe in the resurrection, this found in both the old and new testaments
My original post is that Israel is still prophetic and in the future, not about individual salvation but national salvation, claim that the Church is the new Israel and replace Israel is heracy, the Church and Israel were side by side in the beginning and in the last days prior to the second coming
Answers to the thunbnail: yes, no, yes
The church is God's chisen people
Israelites dont believe in the ressurection
"The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked." - Bible
"God, for His good pleasure, damns the wicked." - Calvin
100% heresy. Actually, given that it insults the nature and character of God, its technically blasphemy.
P.S. - Any man who thinks he's religious yet doesnt control his tongue... well... you know... So that nimrod's opinion is irrelevant
1. What about someone like me?
I've never read Calvin's works and yet I have come to the conclusion after 29 years of study, that God IS sovereign in ALL things, including over nature, the world, man's heart, mind, words, actions, and yes, salvation.
It makes no difference whether Calvin contradicted scripture of not.
You have to address the actual words or scripture.
2. Most Arminians/Free Will Propnents (actually probably all of them) have a view of God that looks more like Santa Clause than The LORD God Almighty!
So here is my question for the God you believe scripture teaches;
Would he kill babies?
The bible says He DID!
*So how does that fit in to your interpretation of God?*
I mean this respectfully but I am hitting right at the core of your understanding (or misunderstanding) of who God is.
“For you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with you. The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers. You destroy those who speak lies; the Lord abhors the bloodthirsty and deceitful man.”
Psalm 5:4-6 ESV
“The one who conceals hatred has lying lips, and whoever utters slander is a fool.”
Proverbs 10:18 ESV
“But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.”
Matthew 5:22 ESV
Are you the caller from the video? Didn't you hear what he said about just because you don't like it doesn't make it heresy.
when the wicked perish there are shouts of gladness.”
Proverbs 11:10
@@rolysantos Great response!