Love Black Forest? DauT vs MbL Pro Showdown!
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- čas přidán 16. 03. 2020
- Do you love Black Forest? Well THIS is a game for you!
Hidden Cup 3 is Thursday at 14GMT/10amEST - ➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
➣ / t90official
You can donate to my channel by following this link: bit.ly/2z4T4rm
This video was created under Microsoft's "Game Content Usage Rules" using assets from Age of Empires II: Definitive Edition, © Microsoft Corporation. - Hry
MbL managing to not smite his own army in all that chaos is one of the most impressive AOE2 performances I've ever seen.
This is one of the more exciting games I've seen. Constant combat with actually decent sized armies- not just a quick rush.
Adding black forest to hidden cup may be interesting especially for older players. It is reminiscent of those gold old days.
Imagine if the first map was Black Forest and random draw from their civ picks. That would be epic.
Actually maybe give the players the option to exclude one civ pick from random draw.
What if Viking is the only civ you can pick in the map?
@@brambillafumagalli8122 What if this is the plan for HC4 and Fatslob already has a place in it ? Just glorious.
Gotta start Arabia, it is the original standard AOE.
How about BF second game and ur opponent picks ur civ blind?
Spirit of the Crusade here:
Mangudai take a lot of upgrades, but even before DE they werent the most upgraded unit. That distinction goes to the Berber Camel archer, who gets all attack upgrades, blacksmith defense upgrades, stable upgrades, university upgrades, and thumb ring from the archery range. They dont get parthian tactics, but Mongols dont get the final archer blacksmith upgrade, so its a trade. Where Berber camel archers come out on top is that they also get a Unique tech, Maghrabi Camels, which causes them to regenerate, so Camel archers are effected by 13 upgrades (including the Elite upgrade)
As of DE, Konniks take the most, requiring 15 upgrades, as they require full uprades from the stable, barracks, both armor upgrades for cav and infantry from the blacksmith, melee attack, and a unique tech from the castle
EDIT - As pointed out by Michael Otis, Magyar HCA actually require 14 upgrades prior to (and also in) DE, as they are fully upgraded CA (13 upgrades) and they also get a unique tech for a total of 14
cool
Solid Stuff. Thanks :)
D E U S V E U L T i wish EoE got the DE treatment it deserves the cheating ai is still too stong these days xd
Forgot monastery upgrades!
23:20 is Spirit of the Law intro
"Cut the ontage."
Honestly that was the moment he started to lose imo.
That was so satisfying.
-plays guitar-
I see you are a man of culture as well.
Holy nuts man, you are firing on all cylinders and not repeating yourself. You've taken your casting to yet another level. So stoked to see you succeed! ☺️
15:15 love how MBL goes in with the onagers, sees the castle with garrisoned units and immediately turns back
Damn when I played as a kid siege units stressed me out so much lmao.
“Wait was my mic muted??” That’s got to be the worst feeling ever....
not as bad as wait was my mic not muted?
Berk Senemoglu XD
@@benberk8541 i work at tech support, and we had a guy there talking about how drunk he was that weekend and how much he messed up etc, a few minutes later he hears someone in the headset sighing and asks "are you done talking about how drunk you were yet?"
the expression on his face when he realised he had been on a call for 5 minutes talking about drinking while on the job.. priceless xDD
(our phones autoconnect to calls and we hear a tone when the call starts, he must have missed the sound)
@@mithshude Thats hillarious
@@mithshude Big L.O.L.
35:16 T90: "And the TING TING TING as the Pointy Bois raid."
I like that line. It hit the ear just right.
The overlay is GORGEOUS
Like GORGEOUS of GORGEOUS Freeman?
PS: czcams.com/video/l1SvvagUGuU/video.html
I'll be dropping by on Thursday for a while, I hope.
Also, awesome Sabaton reference.
Someday, we need to figure out how to make a map that can fit every civ simultaneously and hold a FFA with pros playing every civ.
THE HYPE!!! Even my mother was like"what is going on??" when the winged hussars arrived
Champion spam actually is a potential counter to celt death ball. Yes a lot of them would die on the approach but they counter pikes well and they only cost 20 gold a piece. I think that would have made a difference here.
Imagine finding this YTP legend here!
@@lineriderrulz Haha lmao thanks! I love AOE2 I have been playing it on and off since 2000. So funny how often people run into each other on youtube.
It’s really difficult in choke points. Champion + Drill Siege Onager could work though.
Did you see what happened to approaching Huszars? They have a bigger model so theyre not as bunched up as Champions and move a lot faster and still couldnt even reach the Onagers. SO in the choke is just too much to deal with without BC as Mangudai cannot micro them down as effectively as in open area. Id say making your own SO with Drill and sending 3 in at a time for a suicide attack ground is the most promising strat as that would result in favorable SO trades and without them being massed the Mangudai would become effective counter again.
i can look at the overlay and instantly know how a game is shaping up in both a macro and micro sense. it's a good overlay.
27:57 Then the Winged Hussars arrived, and perished in flame
the animation of the buildings falling is beautiful in this version
So much satisfaction in destroying castles and wonders!
27:58 When I find some spare change in a jacket I haven't worn for a while.
can we maybe get control groups added to the capture age, would really like to learn on that aspect of pro players!
“Who need Fatslob now you have DauT”?
Now I'm offended!
WE NEED FATSLOB!
The overlay covers too much of the screen imo. For example the area around the map could be transparent. Also the text in the command panel is unfortunately colored.
The top ressource bar is very cool though, maybe add a vill icon for the vill counts on the ressources.
I really like the top bar, my suggestion would be to put the map in the corner and shrink it down along with the KD/Relic count panel to match the panel height below the scores.
true, many things on the bottom can be shrink a little bit and some can be move to the top and I'm totally agreed with the transparent area around the map. the black cover is totally unnecessary.
agree. all the black/grey is really distracting and covers too much
@@MatthewHopkinsWitchfinder the bottom is not done yet. it will be adjusted to work with T90s OBS design for the tournament stream and be much less intrusive.
@@nbrain1595 Thanks for the info!
Looking forward for tomorrow!
Looking forward to HC3 and so glad I stumbled across your channel - the last time I played AoE2 was when I had 56kbps internet speed, and played against the AI. Seeing the high level play is a mixture of nostalgia and excitement, especially since I always loved the random map generation of the game.
Definitely a pick me up with how everything is. Good luck with it all!
The ease of access for information from this new overlay is spectacular. What an amazing upgrade.
this feels like it comes down to how good the Celt player is...a few micro mistakes and MbL would be so fucked, but damn he was good.
I think as mongols the best approach to killing the celt deathball is to go for SO yourself early and send in one or two at a time using the speed, you should always get good trades because they have clumped up SO and you only have one. Hopefully this keeps the numbers down enough that your mangudai can pick off stray halbs and your lc can engage or they will run out of gold eventually while you can still afford mangudai. I saw someone doing this against viper in a michi game ages ago.
“Who’s being killed by the Coronavirus?”
* T90 at 15:58 *
aka the boomer consumer
hahahaha
LMFAO
HAHAHAH top comment LOL
I miss the stat for how much of each resource is remaining on the map.
I agree, but they might not have had enouth time to add it yet. In fact I am impressed with what they managed in a few months, my guess is the most important thing for T90 is that it actually works in the HC3 event.
17:58 "You need defensive armor as well" - What's an offensive armor?
armor with obscenities written over it.
@@Johnnywilsonforever But that would only be offensive to thin skinned opponents.
Thornmail
@@zelikris This kind of garbage only works in fantasy, you really do not want your armor to get stuck on enemies, walls, ground etc. and also impede and restrict your movement. Thorns/spikes/etc. would also severely harm the deflection that armor heavily relies upon, by catching enemy weapons and letting them deliver full impact, instead of a glancing blow.
ONES WITH SPIKES AND GUNS AHAHAHAAHHAHAA
Sabaton reference!!!! Finally!!!! That's all I can think when there's Winged Hussars on the battlefield.
In the old version onagers fired glowing red ammo once chemistry was researched. It would make sense that was needed to burn down trees.
Yeßss
Farming in dark age? Villager violence?
If you'd told me this was Low ELO Legends. I would have believed it for the first seven minutes til they both pulled off ideal fast castle runs within seconds of each other.
Love watching your casting, brings back awesome memories plus I get to watch some real pro players which I have never been but you explain things so well, you're awesome T90
Seeing as he asked nicely:
Magudai 12 techs (3050 food, 550 wood, 1850 gold)
Konnik: 15 techs (3545 food, 2095 gold)
Did you add in ballistics? that's one he forgot to mention
@@stuartmacaulay5761 it was a while ago now but I'm fairly certain I did. I made a physical list and everything.
I am stoked for hidden cup. Nice to be able to watch a live event that isn't depressing.
Everytime I watch an MbL game, I'm reminded of his sneeze 54 minutes into co-casting an HC3 qualifier with T90.
Or even that time his door blew up.
"Ah his army is 50% halberdiers...better run directly into him with exclusively cavalry over and over and over until I lose."
I'm not too familiar with aoe2 but since the other 50% was siege onagers is there really a good counter in this situation? doing his own siege which is worse in general and against a more experienced/higher skill player
infantery would be near impossible to dodge with, I'd say he did pretty good
@@brohvakiindova4452 Mongol Onagers would be good vs the halbs.
Or Skirmishers
If you use Mongol Onagers, then yours are always faster than that of the Celts.
Yes the Celts have more HP but that doesn't mean much when they can't land a hit.
The Skirmishers are more of a throw away unit with bonus against Halberdiers.
Yes there are better options, like Archers, but they are expensive.
Just a few Skirms running into halbs to get shot by onagers, teamkilling them is good.
But they need cav to deal the finishing blow.
And to be fair, this requires a lot more multitasking that is incredibly difficult for a human to pull of...
@@brohvakiindova4452 How is Mbl higher skilled or more experienced than DauT? They are both some of the best players. Maybe he could have made more siege onagers of his own.
He lost too many mangudai against the siege onagers, but his hussars were great. Skirmishers or arbalests do nothing here, they just get killed by the onagers. A possible choice would have been champions in my opinion, but it's expensive and takes time to get all the upgrades and build the barracks. But the champions could take out the halbs, and with the right micro, also the SO.
@@peterpeterson4800 last time I checked the top list was basically reversed mbl in top 3 and daut around top 10 but I guess it doesn't mean that much so nevermind that^^
This was such a cool game. Awesome seeing the pros battle it out on black forest.
WHEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED, COMING SOWN THEY literaly just die
@T90 I'm only CZcams spectator but I will show up for HC3 live.. :)
Same deal with HC4? ;)
@@ddljunkygames7654 why not!? Count me in. :)
t90, i have started playing age again after ages today! been watching videos quite often and was able to 1v1 the AI on the first 3 games, going up difficulty on each! thanks! (also, damn, the pros make it looks so easy!)
I like seeing mangudai destroyed. It gives me hope.
Daut: I hear that mangudais counter siege so I'll send a lot of them to the face of siege onagers without trying to micro:D
Outmicroing 24 siegr onagers just takes up so much attention that it is hard to make it worth. "Oh great I managed to kill two of his onager, meanwhile he produced 5 more and I stoped production for 20 seconds and the rest of my army was idle
In addition to Hawkens answer: Another problem was that BF is not exactly a map for micronerds. Daut was just missing the open space to dance aroujnd, instead his units usually only had one possibility to advance, making it quite easy for mbl to set his attack grounds.
The top menu is on point, tho it could be made smaller too, let the game breath :)
you forgot ballistics while listing mangudai upgrades
Anyone can do T90s job. A special needs kid from Cambodia can too even. The overlay wasn't even made by him, he already knows what happens in the videos before we see them, and not to mention he's not even funny 99% of the time. He just got lucky and people started watching his videos.
@@Patton243 why don't you cry somewhere else mate?
@@Patton243 you are human trash.
@@Patton243 u r just a jealous piece of shit undermining other's achievements, im not particulary fan of t90 he is by far not my favorite aoe content creator, however dont bash others because you never could do what they did, if he has an audience, many views for his videos and a vibrant commumity, its for a reason and those people watching him arent dumb, unlike you.
@@Patton243 You're a negative POS. I can see your other comments and you have nothing worthwhile to say
Hey T90, just amazing work. Thank you for everything! POSITIVE CONSTRUTUCTIVE FEEDBACK ON OVERLAY:: 11. Amazing, its great. I love it! 22. Overall its uses a lot of the space. I would place gametime down by the map opposite CA/HC3 e.g. 33. I would have the res info sligthly smaller font so as not take up less space. Having said these things, its just minors things, overall its amazing! I hope you see my input. HYYYPE, see you thursday !
Wouldn't a counter to the Celt deathball involve a whole lot of bombard cannons and some fairly ranged unit capable of defending the cannons mixed with some trash cav to spam in the middle ?
I had thought he would protect the bottleneck with trebs much earlier when it mattered while waiting for bombards as you said, and in the meantime building a massive cheap calvary army split to attack on all sides. I don't understand why he hung to the arched cavalry, seemed like the worst match. I am actually impressed he managed to survive so long.
Awesome overlay, congrats to CA team. That's how you do a great UI with loads of info, still being easy to see and understand everything. Maybe the bottom left and mid section could be still a bit smaller in height to occupy even less vertical screen space. Only chat is missing from here but I guess it's gonna be there in HC3. Yay!
Thx for the feedback
@@nbrain1595 Cool cool. What language do u use?
@@Turbo_TechnoLogic multiple :) this tool is comprised out of several components, an ingame mod in the games JSON ui modding system to move the original games ui out of the way and an external application overlaying the game itself we made to render our own on top, which itself is comprised out of multiple parts itself again.
Remember that co-cast with MbL the other day? I think we can now assume that he has learned what SO on Black Forest means.
Honestly, I was a bit afraid of the new CA overlay for being too big, but watching for a while, it's fine (+ the ability to remove the upgrades helped when it lost importance). Big thing is being able to see the resources and population of both players at the same time at all times, that's what I have always wanted so much.
By the way, Hidden Caster Cup ? So that is why Dave is muted.. that guy takes too few breaks from that tournament, don't you think ?
Mangudai upgrades: Archer Armor x3, Archer Attack x3, Parthian Tactics, Thumb Ring, Chemistry, Ballistics, Bloodlines, Husbandry, Elite Mangudai = 13
Konnik upgrades: Cav Armor x3, Infantry Armor x3, Melee Attack x3, Bloodlines, Husbandry, Squires, Arson, Stirrups, Elite Konnik = 15
except Mongols don't get the 3rd archer armor
Good to see the channel grow man!
12:50 T90 shows why he's the beast caster with the next minute, here
Im actually pleasently suprised, this might have been one of the coolest bf games i have ever seen.
Keep it up, stay hyped for hc3
On a Mongol VS Celt match up I attacked the siege onagers with speedy battering rams (thanks drilling!). It was especially easy in choke points. I flattened quite a few of them! My battering rams were getting to the siege onagers before they could get it, otherwise they would absorb the hit; anyway they were still alive when they got to the siege onagers and they crushed them. In this scenario however seeing how MbL micro'd his halbs I don't think it would have been possible...
I'm stuck on home, so finally can catch HC live.
Nice MbL impression ;) The left part of overlay needn't be that that thick, its mostly blank. Maybe the mini-map in the middle could remain same size like a camera notch on an upside down smartphone. Frankly, if CA doesn't bring in massive zoom out capabilities, just the stats is probably still worth it but maybe if you face issues with the integration, the basic overlay would do fine enough.
Wow, really good uploads lately, I'm looking forward to hidden Cup 3!
I really like your videos. I'm new and don't understand all of aoe2, so it's fun to watch commentary that is more knowledgeable about what is actually going on.
i watch this like i watch tv.. i come home from work tired and just watch T90 braindead... loving it :D thanx for the chillbraindead time :)
"His goal is to hold onto his gold". T90 the true mvp
The battle when MBL opened through forest and Manugdai rushed and were lost to siege was where I think MBL got the lead.
I watch your videos mostly on youtube, I like seeing the comments.
Hot DANG!!! This is such an inspiring game. One of these days, I'll start playing online games and when I do, I just hope I can be even half this good.
At first the overlay seemed too big and too busy, but it took me about 5 minutes to get used to it, and now I love it. The stuff at the top especially is so great. Really nice job CA, thanks for making it happen t90!
thx for the feedback
The new UI is a game changer man! Keep up the great work! Back to aoe2 because of you. Let's goooo HC3!
"Looks like a game against the AI"
Yeah me too, but I'm DauT.
You should cast more Black Forest maps, especially 3v3 ones.
Congrats on the setup for HC3 T90! Feedback on the overlay: as some people have said, it might be better to put the buttons on the sides of the minimap. Also, can you have more info than what the achievements show? I think that on many games (this one included), it would be interesting to look at amount of resources sold and bought to see who got the most out of the market.
Don worry the whole bottom will look completely different. It will be fully designed to work with T90s OBS overlays and stuff like those buttons won't even be visible. Also it will be smaller and less intrusive :)
Market sales we couldn't get in yet due to limited time though, sorry :(
Thx for the feedback, allways appreciated
This is like one of those fights from the good old days
Really like the overlay, props to the Capture Age team as always. My one criticism is the bottom section takes up too much screen, particularly the left hand side. I feel like below the player info is very large and could be adjusted. Looking Forward to HC3!
thx for the feedback
@@nbrain1595 thanks man, love your work!
I had just finished two Low ELO legends videos and started this one not realizing it also wasn't low ELO legends for about five minutes. The villagers attacking the walls within that timeframe did not help me correct my error.
17:16 "there's no DauT in my mind"
this overlay is AWESOME
thx
I think what he could have done was to combat the halbadiers with some standard archers. They don't cost gold, and put them on spread formation to cover more area. Helps against the SO's plus covers more area and allows the Mangudai to pass through. Once most of the halbs are down, charge the SO's with the Mangudai. Other than that there wasn't much that Daut could have done. MBL must be able to process a LOT of actions per second and is a MUCH better micromanager than anyone I've seen lmao
When DauT lost his first mangudais against the celtic-onager-ball, he should have spread his attacks across the map: Grab little tunnels in the forest, and raid the economy with a troopvalue of 15-20 mangudais and onagers or rams. At least at three different points. Onagers in chokepoints? Bye, when you don't have bombard canons or tributches in range.
I wouldn't believe you capable of dissing black forest T90. You're the premier Black Forest commentary youtuber!
T90Official is truely the Gold Standard in AoE game commenting. Awesome!
With Mongols Unique Tech, in the right hands Mongol SO can out micro the higher hp Celts SO. Anyone who is a BF main knows this.
bf main?
Yes there is lots of players who play exclusively black forest. So they are microing ornagers every single game.
27:21 A10 thunderbolt passing by
I haven't finished watching but I feel Mangodai are so important that just 1 or 2 monks near the castle when your army isn't fighting will do a lot of good work. They could have healed up like 20 Mangodai to full health. In terms of pure Hitpoints in the time dsut waited he could have healed like 30 to 40% of the armies hitpoints.
I'm a simple man.. Heard a Sabaton reference, liked the video!
No you are a fat chubby man
Dustin Tran stfu you miserable fuck
@@itsamario Not mutually exclusive.
What a stupid fuck haha. Love them haters, they make the internet a wonderful place 🤣
@@itsamario shutup u peanut
The overlay is great. Well done and thank you to the creator 👏
Creators :) our teams has 6 people who invested a stupid amount of time into this :D
I would of liked to see more paths cut through trees for Daut and then flank the deathball with Siege Rams filled with Champions and surround him zergling style with your Drilled speed siege. When your rams go boom the Champs pop out and slaughter the Halbs and some Onagers while the Hussar/Mangudai come in to finish. When you are losing thousands of resources in 1 volley to catapults of doom, I think the expensive switch is well worth it.
Exactly I really think champions could have made the difference in this game. They are overlooked, but they are a counter for pikes, and they are decently expendable at only 20 gold.
Along the top of castle age, it would be great to see resources per second. If they moved the resource icons up and made them a little smaller it would fit to the left of the villager counts.
@@nbrain1595 nice
Hidden Caster Cup, now that's something I would watch.
I like the upgrade overlay - maybe just smaller icons?
"Could Daut have done anything differently?" Theres like 300 Mangadai rolling in their graves
how do you realistically counter the SO halb deathball? all i can think off is 2 groups of hussars attacking from both sides in spread formation, and about 5 SO's of your own (the SO would come in after the hussar charge)
"This is not a daut castle, but it is a former daut castle"
lol
AWESOME and easy to read overlay.
I'd say Celts are probably 1 or 2 on Black Forest. Koreans right with them too. But I still like Goths for BF. You can spam infantry all day into their Siege and you have Hussars and Bombard Cannons as well.
Holy shit man...the first few minutes was intense! Lol that one dislike is probably from Daut.
He constantly engaged with the Halbs whereas I would have engaged primarily with the siege. Halbs will die against the castles and TCs anyway. Mobility was on the side of Daut anyway so shouldn't be too difficult
I need more games like this one. It's fucking extreme!
So glad that H3 is coming! In these times of Corona crisis we need this! 😍
Loving the new overlay! 💜
I missed HC3 dues too life being too busy, but I made time to log on to twitch and give you my Prime Sub! Now to catch some live casts during quarantine 😂
HC3 hasn't happened yet so you can't have missed it
Random Strategy really? I thought it was last weekend 🤣 I guess I can still catch a couple rounds
18:40 t90 becoming Spirit of the law
Charge of the Light Brigade at 27:56
Dear cast software team.
please move the large map to the corner to and swap it with the info on the hottom right.
the info on left, swap the names at top with the (almost always empty) bottom, then make the top bit transperent instead of a black bar, so whenever t90 selects something, it will appear but without a black bar, just as less annoying overlay
Age of empires is an easy game to play but really difficult to master. The amount of army micromanaging while resource managing is just very difficult to master imo.