So Is The Purosangue An SUV Or Not? [S6, E24]
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- čas přidán 9. 09. 2024
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This week Tony and I discuss:
00:28 I need to sleep.
02:44 Welcome!
04:26 A ‘huge’ crash in Monaco!
09:18 Tony’s new Turbo S story…
17:06 Finally an affordable electric car!
20:53 BMW to stop offering Diesel cars?
23:20 Should I swap my X3 for the M3 Touring?
29:01 Is the Ferrari Purosangue an SUV?
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Flipping the Ami to flipping a Turbo S - best segue ever.
I own an FF (bought used). My dealer phoned me a month ago and asked if I was interested in the Purosangue, which was odd as they are all pre sold afaik. At £400K with options I couldn't afford one. Even if I had that kind of cash I'd be buying someting else. It's just made me appreciate what a good car my FF is. Which ironically can be currently picked up for the price of a New M3 touring. Just throwing that out there. M3 Touring or V12 Ferrari?
Great point! It has not crossed my mind that they are the same price. The main thing about the FF is servicing, and maintaining the FF. The BMW will be ‘cheap’ in comparison to the FF. One thing goes wrong with the FF and it can place you in severe stress. However, in saying that I think the FF is so misunderstood and will appreciate immensely in the upcoming future. A N/A V12 Ferrari that debuted to the entire automotive world Apple car play. It’s a daily drivable, understated supercar. If you get into a cash spec FF and drive it over a year and put a-lot of miles on it, I think you can get out of it pretty safely
Just touching on the Purosangue I do think it’s honestly an amazing SUV. It’s agile, it’s pretty for an SUV, the V12 is so desirable….but….it’s like saying La Vouiture Noire is the best hypercar. For £400,000 pounds you would bloody hell want it to be and yet it still isn’t as practical as an Urus, it has far less tech and a really disappointing infotainment in regards to Apple car play taking up the whole centre screen and using the steering wheel (which constantly is moving) it’s hopeless as shown in the 296 GTB review from Throttle House. It’s boot space for an ‘SUV’ isn’t the greatest, and the COST of the bloody thing for fuel, maintenance, and depreciation after the hype has died down will be shocking. It makes 0 sense. I think it’s the most useless car that could be made. For the price I would take the £400,000 for a base no option Purosangue, and get a 488, an Urus, and then a nice holiday in Dubai.
What would make more sense is putting the V6 hybrid from the 296 inside the car, turning it into a 5 seater, placing a central screen infotainment system, and reducing the price by £50,000 however! It still doesn’t make any sense in comparison to the Urus. It’s a better SUV.
100% the FF! Although if I were in your shoes I’d have been “on the phone to magnitude finance” in anticipation of your first flip 😄
@@LucaJC
'And then a nice holiday in Dubai'. You're a person of exquisite taste.
@@LucaJC I daily my FF, I do around 800 miles a month in it. Not huge, but more than most onwers. An annual service is £1000 at a main dealer, a big belt service is £2500 every 4 years at a main dealer. Warranty is annually £3960 for the Power15 or you can choose to self insure. There is noe a permanent solution to the PTU failing provided by a British company that reengineered the weak compnents. Drive in Drive out 24 hours turnaround £10K. There is nothing on sale today that I could replace it with. I'd not even go to a Lusso.
BTW, they will be fitting the V6 motor in the PS along with a mild hybrid system, that is intended to be the "production" model. The New PS is a limited run V12 of I think 2000 units which were all oversubscribed by at least 100%. My dealer was just fishing and trying to get me into a V12 Lusso - I had no real serious chance of getting a PS.
I had the same epiphany when I got my vantage. Same price as a used M2 Comp or brand new top spec 4 series diesel. Big maintenance bills in comparison but the joy it brings! (Don’t get me wrong the M2 was a proper fun car and easier daily)
Tony you are 100% spot on with Porsche. I feel the same way with Rolex over the past 3-4 years as well
Do they get angry if you flip watches?
@@NewHandle_ ya. You’ll be blacklisted at the ad
I love Tony messing up his sayings. “Tarnishing with the same stick” was my favourite
And when Sam meant to say “leading them down the garden path” he corrected him to “taken them down a blind alley”
😂😂😂
Pity he cannot speak proper English. He seems unable to understand the difference between past tense and now. It's all mangled. No doubt he would say he has some condition but surely as you get older you just learn?
@@borjastick it’s not that deep bro 😂
@Ryan Mason just a hater not worth the reply
Whatever. Potatoes, tomatoes. 🤷♂️
Your X3 (made since 2017) is the equivalent to the older 3 Series. The current 3 series is made since 2019 and based on that the M3. Maybe this could be one reason. Also the fact the Touring is like 7 cm longer.
Rather than debating on whether it is or isn't an SUV;
Why not just call it for what it actually is?
"A Crossover"
He's using the word SUV in place of crossover. It's an ever so slightly lifted hatchback, not even a lifted estate.
really loving these weekly chats, the show is just getting better and better,
Same here. Been listening since the beginning. Always save them for Fridays, to end the week off good.
My old work van had two pillows for this exact reason. Get to site, sleep two hours.
The thing with the Mazda is quite understandable imo.
Exclusive brands used to have really unique body language or “cd”. Every non car guy could identify a Ferrari. Mid engine Ferraris look unique. The c8 Corvette tried to copy but looks like a Ferrari from wish. An 812 looks unique. Nothing looks like a Porsche. Nothing looks like Lamborghini.
The Purosangue has similarities with the Mazda or a Cupra Formentor. Of course it’s a completely different type of car. But I think this shows quite well that nieche brands focus so much on increasing profit with expanding with super exclusive forms of mass market type of cars they loose their “soul”.
Very enjoyable chat, guys!
You both made it to my Nr.1 automotive podcast on youtube 🏆👌
Have a good one !
I love Ferrari. But like I said last video. If you grow a banana and stick an orange sticker on it… at the end of the day it’s still a banana!. If you cut the ends off a banana to make it the same length and similar shape to a sausage, it doesn’t make the banana a sausage!.
Make a car that’s the same shape, size and similar weight to an suv but say it’s not an suv…at the end of the day it’s still an SUV!. Looks like an SUV, drives like an SUV, advertised in Ferrari videos going off-road… means it’s probably an SUV. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck…it’s probably a duck!.
Sam your podcast is so nice to listen while Im working, much nicer than other podcasts that I listen to actually👍🏻
The only thing is the amount of times Sam says, ummmm and uhhhh and how loud he says it. It becomes a bit much when wearing headphones
Just in time for lunch 🎉
If you don't want the driving dynamics of the Purosangue, you buy the cullinan or the bentayga. Absolutely spot on about the Pano roof Sam. Needless weight up top, and if you really can't even enjoy it as the driver....who cares? The resale value effect will be irrelevant on the Purosangue. It'll be immensely desirable no matter how it is specced.
I think that the "sport" in SUV was originally intended for the outdoor hobbies and pursuits that the particular vehicle could offer in storage, load and capability. Now it just means fast, expensive and ugly with a depression level worse that Russia.
I owned an X3 and found the same issue with boot space, one pushchair and the boot was full. I now have an S5 Sportback and have loads more room in the boot.
I'd love to have had Tony's & Sam's thoughts on the comparison between the Purosangue vs GTC4 Lusso vs FF. I'd much prefer the GTC4 Lusso
A chap recently reported having to buy a £10K Porsche watch in order to get his allocation at retail price for a GT product, at which point all the US people said they’d love to only pay £10K over retail and get something in return. Look at what US dealers sell new cars for to make your chin hit the floor.
I have a Purosangue on order and it won't be less than 430k 😢. Your conversation made me want it more. Having that glorious v12 in an 4 seater, is driving nirvana in something more practical than a FF/Lusso. Most buyers have a supercar already. So all this what can you have for 400k is irrelevant to P/sangue buyers, as they can have what they like. In europe they are been offered at a 230k premium. Thank you, great vid
The car that comes closest to the Purosangue in my opinion is if the Panamera cross tourismo had the taycan cross tourismo body kit
Best hour of the week 🙌
When is the F1 podcast being shown, bearing in mind its the 2nd race this weekend ?
Whether you like the Purosangue or not, it’s the first high-end suv/lifted car that doesn’t pretend it needs any off-road capability. Expect other manufacturers to follow suit and drop the charade of needing true off-road capability for high-end SUVs (of which 99% won’t go off-road). Also it’s a game changer in having the clever suspension without the need for anti-roll bars, that will catch on too.
What’s the point in it being so high off the ground then? Surely that’s the whole idea of a lifted car - to be able to go where normal cars can’t, why raise the centre of gravity and compromise the driving for no reason?
@@-LK34- just to be superior to the peasants in the small cars
@@-LK34- Because soccer moms like to sit high up.
@@-LK34- some people just like the higher driving position, and ease of getting in/out the car, general load practicality.
Can we just say the Puro is a crossover?
M340i touring is perfect for you Sam
You dont need a m3 not for double
There has been a massive decrease in diesel SUVs. Not surprised with the laws.
I have a new LCI 330e M Sport xDrive Touring and you don't loose boot space in the main area it's under the boot floor you loose some space. It's the best of both and still quick at just under 300Bhp, low tax test drive one Sam you'll be surprised how good it is or just get the M3 Touring as I suggested to you before.
Did anyone else think it looked as if Sam were interviewing himself in the thumbnail?
“SPECIFIC” - Tony nailed it again.
Love the episode, Sam you should totally check out the Alpine B3! Sounds like the perfect compromise.
He’s driven one. His footage got lost before he got chance to edit video. He wasn’t too fussed on the B3 from memory.
'I'm a Porsche guy through and through, but if you have to buy 6 new cars at retail to get a GT3 allocation what do they think is happening with the 6 cars customers are forced to buy? They have to hit the open market....it's not like they manipulated a GT3 slot and sold it for a 100k over. He's getting the "in stock drive it today" bump, not "special car" bump
If he's that happy with the handling, and the unit he drove had the pan roof, I'd have no problem with getting the pan roof.
Once again, love these podcasts
It’s a crossover and that’s the end
Macan GTS dimensions 186″ L x 76″ W x 63″ H ……..Purosangue dimensions 195″ L x 79.8″ W x 62.6″ H
Nuff Said, wrap up the argument….
Tony is gonna drive it and change his mind 100%
As he did with the sf90.
Looking at the Purosangue, the Roma should have that fender design to break it up a bit.
The best! Tony is a legend.
I own a Audi Q8, and I had a Audi S6 Avant. De Q8 has much more interior space than the A6/S6/RS6. But the booth of the A6/S6/RS6 is a little bit bigger because the Q8 has that sporty Coupe line.
Isn’t the X3 off the older 3 series chassis? An F series platform. The new 3 series is a G series platform. I had an older 3 series touring and the rear bench wasn’t quite big enough. But the new 3 series is notably bigger.
No its on the CLAR Platform, introduced with the 7 Series in 2015. New 3 Series is on the same platform
Thanks Sam,Tony 😊🏴
Purosangue looks like an electric crossover
It was once said that if you wake up in the morning and think you are a fish, then get an X3, otherwise a 3 series touring is better all round. 😊
First class content once again,great presentation ,really interesting chat.
How funny Tony has said exactly the same word for word as my comment on the video when you posted it on Sunday.
"Used" Purosangue already on sale in Dubai. AED 3,050,000 (£686k). Not from a Ferrari dealer!
Contemplating whether big SUV owners will be disappointed when they change into a Purosangue is probably irrelevant because if you can afford to blow £400k+ on a motor you can probably afford to hold onto your old one.
Yyyeess! Love the weekly. Thanks guys. Kindest regards, Richard U.K
Great episode I think this new car from team of the phrasing horse falls into the cross-over suv market . Kind like mustang Mach E and chevy blazer in things
Get the M3 touring from Tony give him the business for a change
We also have a baby and had the exact same issues Sam, yet, we also have a big dog… so I got us a 2009 Renault Espace with up to 3000 liters of boot space :) problem solved 😅
Tim aka Shmee150 should have been here to talk of his dealings with both Porsche and Ferrari. He wants the GT4 RS but Porsche says he needs to buy x amount of cars etc before he can get one while with Ferrari he's getting along fine with them so far. Might even get an allocation for the new SF90 special car (forgot the name).
Puro’s comp is the panamera turbo s e-hybrid. The Porsche is 5 years old has Porsche’s most contemporary tech & interior. If it’s the first to get the next gen refresh, it’ll be right there with the Puro
That Porsche discussion, absolutely agree with Tony. Fantastic cars, but the people behind the cars... not all so fantastic. It's a shame that people can become quite arrogant just because their product is good :/
“Being led down the garden path” is the saying you’re after.
Tuned in yesterday I’d recommend signing up
You have to understand how the market works nowadays, the Purosangue is doing exactly what the market wants today but in the Ferrari way, a friend from Monaco who has several Ferraris in his collection, tested the Purosangue and bought it very happy, he tell me he love the Purosangue, he uses as a daily an F12 TDF so using the Purosangue as a real suv won't be a problem!
Need a Mk3 CRV boot shelf, Pram game changer 😂
Wasn’t a lusso new like 400k? This is more car for the same money. Plus I think it will be the last purely v12 Ferrari because the 812 replacement is going to be a hybrid v12
Even highly specced, the V12 Lusso was barely over £300k. Good point being the last purely V12 Ferrari, mass produced car anyway. The Icona series could continue to be V12s.
@@theknack but nowadays new cars are more expensive. It is obviously not cheap but if we think of it as a lusso evolution and not as a suv the price makes “more sense”
Great episode, really enjoyable 👏
The key difference between Ferrari controlling first re-sales and Porsche attempting to influence a re-sale is a matter of contract. From your discussion, Ferrari condition re-sale at the time of first purchase, and potentially successive transactions through registered dealerships, without which transactions cannot be fettered.
They almost flipped the Ami on fifth gear as well 😂
Interesting Petrol/Diesel debate. I currently Have a BMW 520d and its time to upgrade. I want something with more pace and 4wd. I do between 25 and 30 thousand miles a year and am torn between a 530d x drive and a 540i. Head says diesel heart says petrol. However as a dad with 3 kids and a dog it will 100% be a touring i genuinely think estate cars are some of the most underrated cars on sale. and I'm also quite shocked how little CZcams content i can find on a BMW 540i touring.
Looking forward to the new channel - Behind the Panel Van 🤣
The Ferrari 2+2 with no roof rails is a poor decision. People will want to use them to drive to the alps. Skis for people who have never skied are long and bulky. Beyond me why they didn’t design ski holders. Yes those who own that car can fly and then hire skis or drive and hire skis but it’s not the same as driving your own Ferrari to St Moritz
Porsche (and Ferrari) are getting very greedy. They have had their profit, and now they want to manipulate owner behaviour?
This business of only supplying an 'in demand' models if you also buy another (hard to sell) model as well....what the hell is that all about.
Then the unedifying view of only selling limited run models to their bigger clients - most of whom will just hide them away in their 'collection', whereas someone who actually wants to use the car can 'go to hell'.
Its a very unsatisfactory way to operate.
With regard to boot space Sam...how do you think families packed two adults and 3 children into Mini's and BL 1100/1300's, Ford Escorts/Anglia's in the 1960's - heading off on holiday. Fact is we carry too much 'stuff' and buy way too big prams.
I have in the past, and now own a Porsche...which will be my last Porsche. My experience with the lack of customer concern is the basis for this being my last Porsche. When I took delivery of my new Porsche, there were defects. The windshield showed irregularities in the coating that they apply, which was really dangerous when driving into the sun. One could literally not see through the windshield. The other factory defect was a miss-sown seem in the driver's lower seat cushion that was gathered to a point that a twelve-year-old amateur seamstress could have done better blindfolded. The factory refused to fix these defects. THIS WAS A BRAND-NEW CAR WITH FACTORY DEFECTS! To the absolute credit of the dealer, they replaced the windshield and repaired the seat cushion at their own expense. If only the factory cared about their customers as much as this dealer did.
Not even mildly interested, especially at £200k over. I objectively can't afford it even if it wasn't £200k over anyway, but that's just the cherry on top because the overall design language of the Purosangue does not at all speak to me.
new intro is bangin
I don't think ferrari is as controlled by HQ as you believe. Here in South Africa, they had 1 Laferrari Aperta allocation for the market, it ended up going to the main dealership's landlord instead of other collectors with the big 5.
You need to read the press release for that VW ID1 $25k car closely they said it’s maybe coming in 2025/26. And they “hope” by that point they will have worked out how to make them that cheap. So it is a vapour press release.
Good podcast guys
Sam, get a 330e it’s fantastic. It’s our family car and does the comfort thing really well. Fast when you want it to be, whisper quite to cruise, love it
Sam, how do you open the rear doors on the Puro' in a tight space?
I would bet Porsche did not contact the flipper of Tony's turbo S. It would be the buyer who hasn't told porsche he has flipped it and now wants another special car. You can only cash your chips in once with Porsche then you won't get another special. If you want a special you buy it at list, use for 0-6 months then trade it in AT LIST for the next GT car. So as a buyer you never make a profit but you do essentially get a free GT car for up to 6 months.
I agree with Tony - Sam's been brainwashed by Ferrari.
Isn’t the purosangue a crossover?
Tony’s outfit is looking fresh
another great podcast. ref the purosangue for people with squilluons it won't matter and they'll still buy one and ferrari know it. whoever thought that the urus would ever be seen as a bargain!
So the Purosangue is a 4 door Ferrari that just looks like a SUV? Not sure that makes it any better.
So much want for an older Ferrari / manual at some point in my life. A 360 or a 430 manual the dream. Just ain't got the garage for it haha
If it's possible trade the X3 in for the M3 touring than you can still have your dream daily driver which is the f pace and than you have a cool car when you want to go to car events with the three of you
It's a crossover. Simple.
large crossover
SUV does not mean sporty utility vehicle. It means sports and utility vehicle. Meaning its use is to facilitate sporting activities like cycling, skiing, kayaking etc. How 'sporty' the vehicle is has nothing to do with it. To facilitate being useful for sporting activities they generally have AWD and a high ride height as those activities are mostly done in remote and wilderness locations.
This is where the world of luxury watches and cars are very similar. Rolex has a big no on flipping as well, and if they catch you selling a submariner, say, that costs €7,800, and you then flip it for €14K, which is happening due to the insane demand for these watches, Rolex will blacklist you and won't sell you a watch from the dealers every again.
They wont sell you a watch anyway, if you are a normal customer. Only dealer relations can get you one for retail. Unfortunately
@@flowmeful Absolutely. I tried for several years at my local AD who smiled at my face and then ignored every request I made. I bought an Explorer 214270 which I loved but got it 'cheap' on ebay. I tried very hard to buy a Starbucks Subby and was told by two other ADs not to bother even asking. So I went off and bought a Super-Clone which is totally amazing.
@@borjastickwhere u get super clone from?
@@grantfergusson-hx3fp intime watches online
It's a crossover it's a Ferrari for the older gentleman easier to get into and space for the grandkids
Citröen Ami can be easily overclocked, i guess that happened with that one too, apart from the decline, it shouldn't roll over with it's factory speed limit
It’s a crossover like a Qashqai
Lusso is surely not the predecessor 4 door alone makes it a new product. Btw turbo s is king on the Twistys - we tried even a 675lt… -only on track over +1 round the tts fades due to set up and tires… u should listen more to tony 😂
SUVs are cars that are lifted to clear parking lot curbs. Full stop.
The new Roma spyder looks interesting
Tony has to get his weekly comment in that he can afford the super expensive car, he just doesn't want it...man is tragic
They shouldn’t compare it to the Mazda, but should compare it to the Toyota bZ compact crossover concept. 58:25
Sam! Please please please! Get your hands on the new Maserati Grecale Trofeo, it would be great to hear your thoughts! ❤
7:40 Antonio Pizzonia. He is back to racing.
Get a yoyo2 pram Sam - game changer
The purosangue is a gtc4 lusso on tilt with 4 doors. It’s as simple as that
Whilst I agree it’s unreasonable for the Porsche dealer to give the customer grief, he also should have expected it. He wants it all ways. Make money on his Turbo S and still be in line for a GT product.
Think Sam needs to replace the X3M40d with an M3 Touring and forget the 4 seat sports car idea.
SUV term is so broad brush these days. Plenty out there that aren’t sporty or utilitarian. Ferrari want a a product that appeals to that market but don’t want to admit to it. Ignore their marketing BS
Waiting for today's episode...
The Purosangue is not an offroad vehicle, nor a 4WD, nor a 4X4. And it may be more focused on on-road performance and it's endowed with Ferrari flair and style. But no matter how loud Ferrari will shout that it's not, the Purosangue is an SUV.