Don't Drop The Slide On An Empty Chamber!! - Avoid Gun Abuse! - Critical Mas Ep 76
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- čas přidán 9. 01. 2024
- Avoid Gun Abuse! Specifically slamming the slide closed on an empty chamber. This misuse has been highlighted by expert pistol smiths like Bill Wilson and Jim Clark Sr, superior trainers like Ken Hackathorn, and World Champions like Austin Proulx. This action can damage vital components in finely-tuned firearms, affecting extractors, locking lugs, and overall performance. Whether it's a Wilson Combat 1911 or any well-designed firearm, such behavior is considered amateurish by gun professionals. Let's follow the advice of seasoned experts and promote responsible gun ownership.
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Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob is a show that provides expert analysis over a wide range of contemporaneous topics related to civilian and law enforcement self-defense, the use of force, and second amendment issues, provided by a renowned and established author with a career spanning decades in training law enforcement officers and the public at large, who is frequently called upon to provide expert witness testimony.
ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.
The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several state and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.
Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part-time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).
#MassadAyoob #WilsonCombat #criticalmas - Sport
If my gun falls apart because it was dry fired or the slide was dropped on an empty cylinder - I don’t think I want the POS.
Fudd lore at its finest.
Same ppl that swear up and down 1911s are still the unmatched king of handguns also say they will shatter and break over the minorist of things.
I've probably got close to 100,000 rounds split up through 6 different hand guns weather its personal or agency issued firearms. I've had 1 recoil spring break. And I drop slides on empty chambers on occasion. No broken extractors.
If they were designed to slam shut on an empty chamber, they wouldn't lock open on an empty chamber.
@@charlesbeall2589 Keeping the slide from closing on an empty chamber is not the reason a slide locks back.
@@charlesbeall2589Huh? Thats not why slides lock back.
@@mezrre4630it's actually to speed up reloading..
Edit: nevermind I thought you said thats why they make it lock back
I'd love to see tests, including the actual damage done to the extractor.
If he did that it might prove his point to be wrong and he would not like that.
There isn't any proof, thats why you haven't seen it. 🤷♂️
The damage to the extractor isn’t caused by dropping the slide on an empty chamber, it’s caused by dropping the slide onto a round in the chamber that was hand loaded.
And there is “proof” but internet Call of Duty airsoft “experts” wouldn’t know it if they saw it. I’ve seen several extractors get damaged or break by the hook being forced over the rim of a chambered round, which is contrary to how the pistol was designed to work. That’s why I always have a spare tuned extractor with my 1911’s just in case, as it can be a fragile part if abused.
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo @E.L.RipleyAtNostromo I have done what you said not to do with my 1911 for 10 years and my step dad has a 1911 that he has had since before I was around and both work fine. Things break but this whole topic is just chasing a ghost. You do what you feel is best for you but I am not just a "call of duty expert ". I am a fifth generation veteran who has been around all types of guns my whole life and have never heard anyone in real life have these issues.
@@brycew7860 Ok, I can only tell you my experiences after firing my first shot 60 years ago. This is a thing; you can damage or at least degrade a 1911 trigger job by doing this regularly. And I have specifically seen broken extractors on 1911’s by dropping the slide on a hand fed round in years of IPSC and other shooting. Thing is, I drop the slide on an empty chamber all the time, I just hold the trigger back while I do it, disengaging the hammer and sear, and no problem. If you see how precise the hammer/sear engagement is, it becomes easier to understand, especially with match triggers. There’s no reason to not ensure no issues by just holding the trigger back, which is what happens during firing.
I don’t let people slam / flip my revolver cylinders closed, and I don’t let them do this. With all due respect to your lifelong experience, if you’re OK doing it they’re your guns, but to me it’s abuse, and I think your trigger engagement will eventually suffer for it.
IS NO ONE GONNA TALK ABOUT HOW THAT ROUND LANDED PERFECTLY AT 2:23
Right? 😮 Any normal/puny gun guy could rack one many thousands of times and never stick this landing. This move needs a name. Great video!
😯
@@Steinbacker4001 The Massad JHP Flip 😄 (much like The Bottle Flip)
Stuck the landing perfectly yet the Russian judge issued a 7.5 score.
LoL thanks for pointing this out
Been dropping my slide on an empty chamber for 20 yrs .... still works fine.
He straight up admitted that GI 1911's can take more abuse than a Wilson Combat. Which is sad for a gun that goes for $3,000+.
@@projectJ30 sounds like a cop out for when someone calls for a broken extractor on their 4,000$ guns so they dont have to fix it or replace it
@@doughyassassin236not exactly 1911s have super tight specs not to mention you can expect the reliability out of a competition gun.
@@projectJ30 You can beat up a Wilson Combat until it has a trigger as crappy as a GI 1911
@@projectJ30these super high end 1911s are not duty pistols there for showing off for the money they should be bomb proof but they are way to tight and end up having hella malfunctioning or stuff breaks on them or wears more. Cuz they want it to feel “premium”
It’s funny how a firearm is design to contain a mini explosion everytime you pull the trigger can’t handle a empty chamber slide going foward
a lot of twitter experts will get mad at this video "the gUn Is dEsigNed to HanDle it!". which is what makes this based.
@@cagneybillingsley2165
Biased?
🤔🤔🤔🤔
You should win a special award for, "Common Sense Post of the Month". Well stated.
Yeah or a cleaning rod touching the bore lol
A V-8 engine contains God-only-knows how many explosions per second, and yet countless things can go wrong, and do.
Moral of the story. Very expensive 1911s like Wilson Combat are fragile compared to the 1911s that were actually used when it was the standard issue sidearm. So don’t waste your money.
I’ll never forget the first time I read through a nighthawk custom owner’s manual and saw the list of all the things you couldn’t do with the pistol.
cars are the same way. the higher end ones are more fragile but perform much better. the inexpensive ones don't perform nearly as well but are much more durable.
They're great for the very specific things they're built for, which is having very close tolerances, very nice fit and finish, and great triggers. All of this is accomplished at the expense of durability
Preach
@@drepop803 I’d be cautious about all of this. Any pistol can and will get a damaged lockup if you do this repeatedly, and especially if you put a round in the chamber then drop the slide, this will dislodge your extractor in addition to wearing down and breaking the extractor. Some can take the abuse more than others but you should never drop the slide on any pistol in this way.
@@browncow8422 Riddle me this; what does the slide do as it reciprocates after firing? How is dropping the slide any different, aside from including the slide lock mechanism?
Damn these guns are fragile, no thanks.
I’ve never looked at a used gun and thought “they dropped the slide a lot”
maybe you need to look at more guns.
@@tacticalteager7920 Just asked a gunsmith friend of mine, he says he's never said such a thing either.
U.S. army would’ve lost world war 2 if it were true.
You never look for signs of abuse? Really.
@@chuckster243 didn’t say that
It's priceless to hear Massad make a kitten noise.!!! 🤣
easily amused
"Dying" kitten noise😅
If he keeps smoking he won't be able to make any noises
@@REVNUMANEWBERN if he didn't smoke, it would have been "regular" kitten noise.
Yes!!!😂@@ACommenterOnCZcams
2023: don't drop the slide over a round in the chamber
2024: don't drop the slide on an empty chamber
2025: don't rack the slide no matter what
2026: never remove your pistol from its original package, ever
2030: Just give us the money and we will keep the pistol in its original packaging at the factory.
And hold your mouth just right when unloading!
2027- you are under arrest for applying for a permission slip to conceal carry
2028: Our sensors indicate you thought about racking your slide, straight to jail
It's fine on an empty chamber, not a loaded one. Watch how your round feeds into the extractor from underneath at the magazine, not when being slammed into the chamber like most rifles. The extractor on an ar or ak is rounded and cam as they slam over the rim, a pistol extractor is flat. Probably wont break your glock extractor but there is no purpose to do this in a pistol anyways.
This is BS. But it did make me realize that I don't want a Wilson Combat pistol. No way.
I've owned a lot of guns, trained a lot of different places and have met a lot of different gun guys over 30 plus years and I have never heard this advice.
Now you have!
Yeah he made it up
Thanks
I’ve only heard it from super old dudes i assume extractors used to be dog shit
@@Oops407nah, they're just fudds.
Finally, I found something to break my mk23, it could handle tens of thousands of rounds without parts breakages, but dropping the slide on an empty chamber will cause it to disintegrate
No one said that, and you clearly can’t tell the difference in functionality of a 1911 between firing it and doing this newbie Rooney camo commando shit to abuse the pistol.
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo having worked on 1911s, the only way it would be a problem is if it’s not strong enough to be a duty handgun in the first place, please post your 10-10-10 if you want to call anyone a newbie
@@awesomeopossum4632Yes, I’ve worked on 1911’s for years as well, including building competition guns.
And /sorry, but anyone who watches this video and misunderstands it to the extent that they don’t know the difference between firing the pistol or abusing it by dropping the slide on an empty chamber (without holding the trigger back) is a newbie when it comes to 1911’s.
“Strong enough to be a duty handgun”, has nothing to do with it. “Duty handguns” are allowed to have good triggers, and $5000 Wilson Combat handguns are no exception.
Saying the gun will “disintegrate” is straw man BS, no one said that, but I’d kick anyones butt who did it to my duty or match 1911’s, because they are potentially damaging the hammer / sear engagement leading to a worse trigger pull.
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo dropping the slide on an empty chamber is abuse if it’s a poorly build firearm, even under slow motion there is no real appreciable buffer from the slide stripping a round from the magazine, the whole sear engagement problem came from dudes trying to tune gi 1911s while using custom internals that weren’t really at a level of hardness to be durable enough for anything other than bullseye match shooting
@@awesomeopossum4632 A $5000 Wilson Combat isn’t a “poorly built firearm.” Please, by definition a match hammer and sear will have superior “hardness.” You really are both grasping at straws and don’t know what you’re talking about when it comes to these pistols, so just stop. If you want to drop the slide on an empty chamber, then just disengage the trigger surfaces by holding the trigger back while you do it. If you don’t want to do that then fine, wreck or degrade your trigger job, but don’t expect me to buy the frantic ridiculous arguments you’re coming up with, especially when people like Clark and Wilson who have built superb quality 1911’s say not to, and their experience matches what I’ve seen directly since my first Bianchi Cup in 1984.
I built my first custom 1911 in 1982, based on an excellent quality Colt Series 70, and know what it takes to get and maintain a good trigger job. Everythjng Ayoob says here is spot on, and frankly you clearly don’t understand the issues or mechanics involved. You made a comment based on ignorance just because you own a 1911, and now you’re doubling down on it. No thanks.
If I payed 4000 dollars for a pistol I would probably be dumb enough to believe you.
Reading your comment, I am laughing so hard that I am crying.
The Fuddbusters response to this nonsense is priceless.
a lot of twitter experts got mad at this video "the gUn Is dEsigNed to HanDle it!" while also having exactly no data point to back up their claim. both sides are just resorting to dogma. very tedious tbh
thousands of rounds and hundreds of empty chamber drops on most of my pistols with no noticeable effect. I’m not even on Twitter but I guess I’m a Twitter Expert 🤷♂️
@@cagneybillingsley2165
Lots of "armchair quarterbacks" on both sides!
Oh well, you can't fix "stupid"!
😂😂😂
@@franzkoviakalak6981
So continue abusing your self defense weapon just to prove your point.
Just pray it DOESN'T fail when you are protecting your family!
SMART? - NOT!!!😨😨😨
All I can say is, OMG!☹
Lead a horse to water... 🙄🙄
One would expect a damn gun be designed to withstand more beating than that.
Just like your car should be designed to be driven full throttle all the time?
@@tacticalteager7920 i bought the whole speedometer, i am going to use it
@@tacticalteager7920 If it strikes you as an completely identical thing then yeah, I guess.
@@tacticalteager7920and yet the extremely violent process of firing the gun has no affect on the failure of any particular part of the gun.
Your car engine is under extreme conditions just at idle. The engine should be engineered for that. There are engineers who specialize in fatigue limits.
I think this is also where it comes down to the type of weapon you're using. 😅 Everyone here is debating whether it's that bad or not, but he only barely touches on the most important part of the whole debate, "The regulations set by the military were for military issue weapons, which are not manufactured to a tight tolerance." while he states he would never do this to his "Wilson Combat blah blah blah". So, in reality, this is not truly going to hurt a military weapon designed for military use. It's like comparing a Honda Ninja to a Suzuki Hyabusa. The Hyabusa is going to out-perform that Ninja any day of the week, but it also has to be tuned, maintained, and driven PERFECTLY or it's completely out of the game. The Ninja, while it's not a high performance racer, is just going to go and keep going. Beat it up, run garbage oil through the motor, drive it on dirt, etc., it's probably not going to be any less of a motorcycle than it was before you ran it through the things it's bound to go through in its life.
I think a lot of this is just over care that came with guns transitioning common place from hunting and war tools to becoming a bit more of sporting devices. 😅
this is untrue for Glock:
Glock manual page 19-20 chapter VIII. "Unloading procedure and safety check":
part 5.:Release the slide to return it to the forward (closed) position by either pressing the slide stop lever down or grasping the rear of the slide at the serrations with your other hand and pulling the slide fully back and then releasing it.
Pressing the slide release will drop it, and so will pulling it back and letting go will also drop it. So there's nothing wrong with that, you just proved the point yourself?
@@blackalistar3241 my point was that the video is wrong for Glock, because Glock instructs you to drop the slide on empty
yeah fine for Glocks..1911's have different parts, it's the tiny thin sear inside the frame of the 1911. also extractors can break on a Glock if you top it off by dropping one in the chamber. It forces the extractor to move into a position much further out than it is designed to do.
Exactly. Most people don't read the manufacture's instructions, unfortunately.
@@blackalistar3241 I guess the point went right over your head? 😂
So my pistols which were designed to survive the brutality of combat will break if I drop the slide on an empty chamber? Not sure about that one..
Well, it's a 1911 we're talking about. Get your precious pistol a little dirty and it'll stop cycling all together until you give it a nice cleaning. Those precision parts fitments with tight tolerances come at a cost.
Its mostly people that never shoot who are concerned about this.
@@grapetonenatches186 I admit I spend a lot of time on the internet, but I don't go in for puppy piles. In real life I make my own choices. One thing though from an real attorney on the internet I have to go with "Freedom is scary".
@@theKashConnoisseur Can you say "Luger".
Is this also true for a Beretta 92? I don’t remember you mentioning that specific gun.
Thank goodness that the US Army issued us MPs "real 1911s"
This is the worst marketing team ever. Fire them and repurpose the budgeted funds to quality control.
The way the dummy round landed when he cleared the gun 😮
Absolutely nutty moment
Can someone explain what I missed as I am a beginner. Thanks.
@@MrJwh3000it landed nose down
yeah, I'm pretty sure that was a live hollow point round... Flat spot on the nose and the lead weight at the front, hence stood on the nose. He's a pro, I'm sure he's comfortable doing this on camera...
Thanks fellas!
I think the only way you are going to get people to believe this is to test it.
Take 2 identical 1911s, fire one a bunch and slam the other one the same number of times, then check for damage.
If you're right, it should be observable after 1000-2000 cycles.
I'm sure Wilson Combat has the funds to do the test and the views the video would get would more than pay for it anyway.
No most of us don't need to do that, we're not that dumb, we don't have to touch the fire to see if it really Burns.
@@jerrydonquixote5927 Okay, since it is SO obvious, at what number of slide drops does the average 1911 start to show signs of wear, and what are those signs of wear?
How does it compare to a 1911 that has fired the same number of rounds? Do you know?
If not, then drop the pompous attitude.
Let's be honest: The only people I have EVER heard say that dropping a slide on an empty chamber is bad for 1911s, are the Wilson Combat guys, and people they have on to talk about 1911s.
I honestly don't know, and it isn't plainly obvious to me, even with Mas' explanation.
For the record, I personally, DO NOT make a habit of dropping a slide on an empty chamber, but I'd like to know what would happen, if anything, if someone did.
@@theodorehunter4765 durr duhhh durrr🤡
Thank you.
@@jerrydonquixote5927 you wouldn't have known about this if you weren't told🤦♂
An ex girlfriends grandpa was showing me his 1911's and he dropped the slide on and I mentioned this to him because I heard it years ago and he just chuckled, walking over and sat in his chair and proceeded to drop that slide on an empty chamber for a good 2 hours while he told me some stories. After a while he grabbed a box of bullets and tossed it to me and told me to go have some fun and I did, I ended up with a fewnof his pistols that one included and at 75 years old with original parts it still works flawlessly.
It's kind of funny how pistols are made to contain miniature explosions but a little metal on metal contact is devastating according to some people.
Sometimes I wish we could summon John Moses Browning just to hear him correct all the fuddlore about his design.
The problem is that WC builds all tolerances so close that any small change can result in problems. I own a lot of firearms, but when a manufacturer admits their 3-6K pistol can't handle rough use I won't have one of their firearms in my house. I could drop the slide on my Springfields until my finger bled without hurting them.
What you said
Seems like a great dude
hold up, you're telling me you got guns passed down to you from your ex's grandpa? You walked out of that relationship with the deal of a lifetime!
Sounds like Wilson combat needs to make tougher extractors.
Should ferrari remove rev limiters from their engines, or just get rid of the redline on the tach.
@@Resistculturaldecline Cars ≠ Guns
@@Resistculturaldecline
If a Ferrari breaks from pressing the gas pedal down while the car is off then it's a pos
@@nsahandler I see can your effort, and I want you to know I'm proud of you.
I have been doing gunsmith work along side my father for years. Dad has done it 60 years. He's retired and now works for his best friends gun repair shop that's been in business since 1972. As much as we love Massad Ayoob, we have no clue where this came from, and respectively disagree. Surely by now there has been a scientific comparative study that supports this? Because we've never seen it. Pew pew tactical wrote about dropping the slide empty and said "As with most contentious issues in the gun world, the answer to this question is…it depends. There’s not a one-size-fits-all answer because there are a lot of 1911s of various quality and metallurgy on the market.". I got a 1918 dated colt 1911, refurbished for ww2 sold from the DCM in 1961 with box and papers when I was 13 (now 38). I'll bet I've dropped the slide empty thousands of times, especially when I was a kid. Not once has it failed. As for it damaging the lugs over time, no, the friction and PSI vs force of that slide going forwards and backwards while shooting is much greater than dropping it one way on an empty chamber. This is one of those topics that have been around for years, if there is scientific data to back it, great we'll support it, but we have never seen it in 2 1/2 lifetimes repairing guns in a gun repair shop. Until then it gets filed with other topics long believed to be true that simply aren't like Italian Carcano's are junk and Spanish 1916's mausers converted to 7.62 nato will blow up if you shoot commercial .308 in them, and practically everything about the forward assist.....
I'm a data guy, I'd like to see it quantified how much of a problem this is. How many guns have to get serviced because the locking surfaces are out of spec, or how many guns have to have major service repairs because of slide damage.
I wonder also like to know this. I haven’t heard anything about this in till this video.
Many. You don’t gotta be a “data guy” to realize why this is bad. Lol
They're not going to do a study for you just wait a few years until it sinks in
If it only happens to one pistol and that pistol happens to be your pistol, that will be one too many.
In another video about this subject Bill Wilson mentioned they basically trash every gun displayed at the shot show. Data is there, if you watch the high speed video of the slide, you can see the difference in slide velocity between normal operation and empty chamber.
As a mechanical engineer i find this surprising.
The slide is driven by the recoil spring either way, so you have the same accelerating force. Stripping a round out of a full mag would definitely eat up some of the slides kinetic energy the last round in a mag not so much.
I would think the biggest difference would be the lack of soft brass absorbing impact of the slide on the barrel. Granted I am not entirely sure what the contact points are in a 1911 but a design that breaks parts because it can't withstand the forces of a spring selected by the designer and for a completely foreseeable user operation is a flawed design.
Perhaps its unique to the high tolerance guns only?
I think he did the best he could towards the end of the vid trying to illustrate the why part. My take: The spring basically rides the brass (like a mini leaf spring). When there's no brass there, the spring leans in a little more and can basically take some damage due to the angle. I would suggest tossing in a dummy round and trying to watch it move very slowly (kind of hard though - I admit).
The higher end guns are just tuned a little more than the standard 1911s and tend to be more susceptible to this.
There's a possibility you could do this a thousand times and never have any issues. There's also the possibility you could do it a thousand and 1 and have a problem. Or just gradual loss of fine tuning. Either way, it costs nothing to not do it - which is kind of where I'm at personally. I guess to each his own.
It’s best not to think with your brain here.
Even the first rounds in a mag the difference is NEGLIGIBLE
Didn't know Wilson combat firearms were so weak.
Not trying to trigger anybody but, If gun manufacturers are afraid their gun will break if the slide is dropped on an empty chamber, wouldn’t this be an indication that it is a flaw In the design? Shouldn’t someone “innovate” to address this weakness in the design? Again, not trying to troll anybody.
Read my mind exactly. Manufacturers would definitely have writing against this in their manuals if this was the case
@@Darkhalo314 Right? I have never seen any warning against this in any of the manuals I’ve read. If anybody has a users manual warning against this action, please share.
For $3000 absolutely.
If anything breaks on a gun that costs over 1500 it should come with a lifetime no hassle warranty fix. Even my guns that cost less than 1000 do that and I've never needed to use it besides on a sling mount. It as a metal part in a plastic stock... go figure.
Zippos still go bone dry after a month. Engines still use messy oil drain plugs. Manufacturers have no concept that these are even problems.
well I don't know how I have survived the last 30 years, gun's function perfectly
Maybe because you don't listen to narratives. Isn't it great to think for yourself?
@@walkingwolf8072 it is, but it means bad shit coming to those that can’t
@@daver2492 True
because he's wrong? Using the slide stop is fine.
@@DTMWTMPreal he’s just trying to cover his ass for when the tight tolerance on the Wilson 1911s destroys the extractor in 600 rounds. Good way to not have to warranty you’re super fragile 3000 dollar pistols
I’m gonna assume now that all the 1911s at gun stores have broken extractors
SEAR! wrong part. LISTEN!
@@WholeCosmos 2:48
I was an armourer in the British Military. Doctrine was to dry fire Browning HiPoints, Sigs and now Glocks. I don’t remember anyone having to repair broken weapons due to dry firing. If it was such an issue, we wouldn’t have done it. Tbf it might just be the 1911 but I have very limited experience on it.
Dont buy a 1911, got it
This is America, buy what you want, unless you live in California.
Nooo, buy a 1911, just don't buy a Wilson combat 1911. They will void the warranty if you told them you dropped the slide on an empty chamber even once. Wilson combat's logic is: If your mag doesn't lock the gun back for some reason, any reason at all, the warranty is voided.
@@timd729 glass cannon edition
Saying guns contain explosions so you can cycle their mechanisms however you want similar to saying that swinging revolver cylinders closed with the wrist instead of closing them with the hand should not damage them because they contain explosions. Yes, guns shoot and don't blow up when their mechanism is sitting in the right configuration. We need to set that fallacy aside to discuss the meat of the issue, whether Mr. Wilson is right or not.
As such, Bill Wilson's contention is that A: 1911's with very fine sear engagement will suffer damage to that geometry with repeated closing of the slide without a round absorbing some of the shock. (A GI trigger's engagement is generous and imprecise enough not to have a problem) and B: peening of a pistol's lockup may occur over time if the slide is closed repeatedly without a round buffering some of the shock.
The fact that the pistol's locking system can safely contain ammo being fired is irrelevant. The forward stroke of the slide, whether releasing the slide manually or during the firing cycle, is only powered by the recoil spring. Feeding a round into the chamber robs the forward stroke of some force as friction is generated from the round leaving the magazine and then the steel feed ramp hitting the soft copper and lead bullet. Whether this buffering effect matters or not in X Y or Z pistol design is the question.
I hope that evidence for the value of the buffering effect is presented in the video so that those who do not think the buffering effect of ammo when dropping the slide matters can respond with their own evidence and/or interpretation that brings us closer to a final answer.
I suspect i’m one of the few in this group who comprehends that scientific comment. I’d like to see some experiments in this too
If the small amount of added friction from stripping a round off the mag made such a big difference, you'd think that the added inertia from a slide mounted red dot would cause undue wear over time as well.... but they don't seem to. And you'd think that if such small friction was so vital to avoid damage, then surely the increased chamber pressures and recoil from using +P and/or suppressors would beat guns to death.... but they don't.
While this might be a valid concern with a finely tuned, hand fitted 1911, I don't see it being that big of an issue with Glocks and the many polymer, striker fired designs that came after. They don't have any barrel or slide contact with the extractor, and they have a much more robust locking lug that isn't likely to deform despite thousands of slide-to-barrel connections.
@@theKashConnoisseur exactly! You'd also think that slide lightening cuts would reduce wear. In fact, Beretta's manual suggests you load the chamber like that. The slow motion in this video was great, it would be good to see a difference in fps between the two. From that, we could calculate the difference in force between the two.
@@lllllllllllillllllll Even better, it would be nice to see data from an accelerometer on the slide. This is possible with modern technology - I think Bloke on the Range has a few videos where he has fitted accelerometers to rifle muzzles and then compared muzzle brakes.
All that having been said, I think the point about extractors eventually failing after slides being slammed shut (etc.) does sound like a sensible point.
@@derekp2674 everything mentioned does sound plausible but we should definitely seek to confirm this and why it actually happens. Extractors are always a weak point and need replacing too, but maybe the forces exerted from dropping the slide on an empty chamber reduce its lifespan. Would definitely be interesting to see an accelerometer.
As always, great video, Mas! You are reiterating what I have been saying for years! As a Gunsmith that has been working on all types of Pistols, for over 25 years, I can tell you this much... With regards to the claim that many people have, that if a Pistol is designed to survive an internal explosion, it shouldn't be possible to damage it by dropping the Slide on an empty Magazine... The Chamber which contains the explosion produced by the discharged cartridge, is made from an entirely different alloy than other parts of the firearm, such as the frame, slide, or internal components... Also each of these parts is heat treated differently, so that it can handle the strain associated with its assigned task... When the Pistol is discharged, the force of the mini explosion, as they called it, is directed rearward, transferring to the Slide, the force is then dampened by the Recoil Spring, as it returns forward, stripping the next round from the Magazine, and chambering it. The reason that most Semi-Automatic pistols in production, today, have a Slide Stop/Hold Open Device, is to stop the Slide from hammering forward, uninhibited, when the Magazine is empty, or is not present... When you drop a Slide on a loaded Magazine, the force on the Slide and all its components, is dampened as the Breach Face strips a round from from the Magazine, and drives it into the Chamber... The tension of the Magazine Spring together with the Ears of the Magazine creates a considerable amount of friction & drag, thus slowing down the Slide... When you drop the Slide without a round in the Magazine, you are causing the Breach Face to buttress against the Breach End of the Barrel & several other components, under full force of the Recoil Spring... Not only can this damage the internal components of the Pistol, such as Firing Pin, Hammer, Sear, Extractor, Pins, Ejector, etc.... It can also damage the Slide and/or frame! Frames (Especially Aluminium or other Alloy Frames), have a tendency to crack where the Barrel connects to the Frame... Slides have a tendency to crack around the Ejection Port, close to the Breach Face... This goes for all Semi-Automatic Pistols, not just 1911s... When I taught the Combat Pistol Course to Military & Law Enforcement, (As a Civilian, in both cases) I taught them to press against the Slide with your trigger finger (Slowing its travel considerably), while lowering the Slide on an empty Magazine (Or to hold it with your off hand, and slowly ease it forward), to avoid damaging the Pistol... I always got a laugh at the fellows that had served in the Military(Often for a very short period of time), that claimed that their severely abusive handling practices directed towards innocent firearms, was good for them, because someone else(Usually a fellow recruit) had told them so... And that I, a Gunsmith, had no idea what I was talking about... My reply was always "If an Electrician told you not to stick your Genitalia in a Live 120V Light Socket, but your non-Electrician buddy told you to ignore the Electrician's advice, who should you believe?"
Huge fan but uh... ill bet you good money no damage occurs when dropping the slide. If it damages your gun get a new gun, nothing amateur about it
Wait till they find out what kind of forces are exerted on the pistol when it fires.
This is why I get a kick out of Fuddlore. SO the pistol designed to fire and extract cartridges at high velocity can't release the slide on an empty chamber. So under stress, it is fine for the slide to slam in and out of battery but not on an empty chamber. You can't have it both ways - the gun is too delicate but can stand up to actual use or its a piece of overpriced junk. And since he's talking about Wilson Combat, we're talking about a precision high end firearm that is too delicate to withstand actual use.
Those actions stress different parts of the gun. The mini explosion only stresses the chamber, locking lugs, etc. Dropping the slide on an empty chamber stresses the sear. A round cycling cushions the sear because the round first hits the feed ramp and then headspaces on the throat. That doesn’t exist when there’s no round.
Now it does differ depending on the gun. A heavy 1911 trigger with a lot of sear engagement can weather that more than tuned 1911s with really light triggers and very little sear engagement. Everything is a compromise.
I think a lot of people who object to this knowledge don’t understand how guns work. I find the engineering side of guns most fascinating so it makes more sense to me.
@@agenttexx the recoil spring (hence the name) muzzle flip and hands/arms absorbs the shock of the fired round and some people put plastic buffer pads if they see an imprint showing on the slide metal. When the recoil spring wears out more force is transferred when shooting and also it is less able to strip and load a new round. A stronger recoil spring will cushion the recoil more. The softer brass metal cartridge cushions the slide going into battery as it is sandwiched in the breech and chamber. Dropping empty there is no brass to act like a shock absorber. You can feel it. There is more shock when you drop empty vs snaps or live ammo.
IRRELEVANT to the issue!
😨😨😨😨
@@gameragodzilla
Well stated!!!😁😁
Don't drop the slide on Bill Wilson's guns. Or better yet don't buy them because they're grossly overpriced for what you're getting.
Foolish comment, and not true! 🤪🤪🤪
@@stephencolley334No, no he's 100 percent right. Stop defending your overpriced Gucci boomer pistols.
Next video: don’t slam your car door while standing outside of it
Seen alot of fudd lore from this guy but this one takes the cake.
If you are so damn smart, and know so damn much more than Mas A does, why are you watching his video?🤪
I'm almost embarrassed to admit that I didn't know this until today, but now I've learned something and passed it along. Thanks, Mas!
Not the only one!
same here :(
Here here
I have that same feeling that you get when you do something wrong in another culture and had absolutely no idea until you found out later. Need to go clean and baby the guns I have done this too. I didn't know ...
Same boat. Will stop doing it myself.
Dont worry at shot show as you display your guns you will get to repeat this several dozen times im sure.
I don't think Wilson goes to Shot show.
@@robertducharme1424 they have in the past
They were at shot show lmao
And one brave soul (maybe multiple) took it upon himself to drop every single slide on their display guns.
@epicfortnitekid8536 omg I hope you recorded it. Especially after they dropped this video specifically to head that off at the pass......haha
I think I remember seeing Tom Hanks running around telling everyone to be careful with their 1911’s on Saving Private Ryan……
Well, guess I can check Wilson Combat off of my shopping list. Sounds like their shoddy guns won't survive standard use if you can't even drop the slide on empty.
Thanks for saving me a few bucks!
Do you have a link to the scientific testing done? I'd like to see the results of a head to head 10k slide release demonstration please.
Why not just do it yourself?? And prove him wrong??
@@12370ts I have, every function check on my semi autos. I did it with my m16 hundreds of times a year. It is up to him to prove his claims, just saying you are an expert does not make you one. He has just got away with it for years.
Bill Wilson and Ken Hackathorn did another video talking about how at the end of shot show, their demo pistols had the hammer riding forward with the slide. I wouldn’t consider that scientific but if it can damage a brand new gun enough in a week, why not just heed the advice?
@@bighat291 those are custom 1911s not modern or duty guns.
it’s inherently in the 1911. . i try to avoid the practice with all self loaders
What a legend. He got his first 1911 at age 12. This sh** is priceless.
He puts me to sleep. What a legend
@@dawudasha977 He is the same guy that wrote you can kill a snake with a 357 sig by missing. He is a master at marketing himself though. BTW I doubt there are that many people who close a slide that way, it was how issuing, and turning in guns, as well as inspections were done in the military. Most civilian, and police 1911's probably stay loaded, but when putting a 1911 back together the gun is also function checked, by? You guessed it, letting the slide go home on an empty chamber, as well as testing the trigger, and safeties. This was done by the armorers if they repaired a firearm, and the soldier during cleaning before turning in after being on the range. Nothing unusual to hear the bolts, and slides slamming forward at the cleaning table.
@@walkingwolf8072 Did you watch the video?
@@amorag59 The video says it's because they are military 1911s with better sear engagement. But, at the same time, says that it's an issue with all handguns, including modern guns (which are even more robust). But the military did this with 1911s for decades, sooo... wouldn't you think the military would stop doing it if it were such a big issue?
@@medikpac7105 I'm not advocating my opinion on anything, his comment just reads like he skipped the video and went straight to the comment section per "it was how issuing, and turning in guns, as well as inspections were done in the military" Massad mentions this.
Dropping the slide on a prechambered round is easy to see where it could damage the ejector because it has to pop around the case rim. Normally it engages the case rim while the round is being picked up from the magazine. But I don't see where the extractor would be damaged by closing on an empty Chamber because it shouldn't be touching anything especially the chamber face. Anyway good advice and different guns have different weaknesses so best to listen to Ayoob.
That’d be the case with a fixed extractor, but modern ones aren’t fixed so it’s not doing any harm except to the brass.
Sheep
you are mixing up the 2 parts. the extractor is what is forced to pop around the rim as you say. there is no such thing as a fixed extractor as the other gent says. the extractor IS a spring in the 1911 it moves to the side as a leaf spring does in a suspension to accommodate the lip of the cartridge. even hinged extractors like in a Glock are not designed to bend out around the case rim.
@@WholeCosmos fixed extractors are 100% a thing😂 a ejector can’t be fixed.
You are correct!
Wilson Combat is a great new hub for Fuds
His delivery on the kitten "joke" was perfect 😂. Well done, Mas.
Purrfect
2:23 the way that round landed on the table proves this guy knows what he's talking about
Oh shit, had to go back and watch….that’s impressive!!
Lol
And the fact that it's at 2:23 is just too perfect.
It was a dummy round, so more likely to do that because of the lack of weight of a primer or powder, but it's still really cool to see it just happen that way.
Nice catch.
My neighbor, a retired Marine, God rest his soul, nearly ripped my head off for not easing the slide forward on an empty chamber 10-12 years ago. Sorry again, Don! I thank you for all your training and time; it was a blast ~🙏🏻⬆️🇺🇸
Thanks as always Mas, the legend, and for the cat eek to boot!
I don't have a 1911. Furthermore, my gun's owner's manual has a published list of things not to do, and dropping the slide on an empty chamber wasn't listed. In fact, they specified that you could dry fire without a dummy round or a snap cap, which leads me to believe that they're not worried about me doing dry drills (including tactical reloads, out of battery reloads, etc) with their pistol empty. And hey, if I manage to somehow hurt the extractor I can install a new one in 45 seconds flat with no tools involved.
I think it's a mistake to assume that what applies for a 1911 also applies to every other semiautomatic pistol out there. After all, if the small amount of friction from stripping a round off the mag makes such a big difference, then doing things like installing a slide mounted red dot and a suppressor aught to end up wrecking my gun due to how they influence slide movement, inertia, and recoil.... And yet, they don't.
They don't mention it because you don't need to slam the slide for dry fire. You can simply do a press check and it will reset the firing pin. So basically just go part way as in a half in or so. On anything with a hammer like a 1911 you just cock the hammer by thumb.
@@bmffafo5004 well, they do mention it, specifically. Only they say fears about firing pin damage are unfounded, and that snap caps and dummy rounds are not required to dry fire practice.
Speaking of dry fire, that's pretty much the only occasion I'd ever consider dropping the slide on empty. Kind of hard to train out-of-battery reloads without dropping the slide, after all. But what I'd never do is train riding the slide closed. That just seems to be an easy way to develop a training scar that is more likely to result in the gun malfunctioning when I need it to be working.
They say you learn something new everyday. They're right! Thanks for this.
"Slam it loaded, ease it empty". Words of wisdom to live by.
If it can handle thousands of psi from being fired, it can handle being closed.
Smith and Wesson Performance Center people told me, in person, to NOT drop slide on empty chamber. Cannot think of a more knowledgeable group of folks.
If dropping the slide breaks my shit gun i need a better manufacturer
I like the M&P line, but the notion that simply hitting the slide release (they call it something different) will damage the gun is the most insane thing I've ever heard.
on what gun, specifically? Because I bet they're working on a lot of 1911-esque platforms where sear deformation matters.
@@medikpac7105 the gun we were discussing at the time was the performance center shorty forty. But what they said was dropping the slide puts unnecessary strain on the slide takedown pin. It won’t cause catastrophic failure but repeated hammering of the takedown pin leads to slop and unnecessary wear. The performance center guys know their stuff, wouldn’t question their knowledge. Many guns do not use a pin to hold slide, but use other methods, ie glock. But anything with a takedown pin to retain slide shouldn’t be dropped on empty chamber.
Maybe that is why they could only get military contracts for the model 15. There is no slide on the 15. The model 39 was turned down over the M9, maybe that is why. Not being able to drop the slide at the clearing barrel is a no go.
Have Wilson Combat 1911's been having embarrassing issues and need to get the word out to pamper these things? Because I've slingshot and released the slides on my Glocks thousands upon thousands of times over the years without any issues. I practice dry firing pretty much every day which requires one to rack the slide on an empty chambered Glock to reset the trigger after each pull. Thankfully you don't have to baby Glocks!
Dude please keep your crap to yourself. You have been lucky that is all. I highly doubt the accuracy and validity of your statement. Glocks have loads of issues fan boys will not acknowledge. Plus they are tinker toys compared to real guns.
@@patricknesbit2334Well, I guess all their other fanbois have been “lucky”, too. Or maybe Glocks just really don’t care if you rack the slide on an empty chamber, or drop the slide on to an already loaded chamber. They’re built to handle the way people actually use them.
Why do ppl shit on glocks every gun has issues, but there’s reasons Glock is used everywhere.
YEAH!!!....Because Glocks Are Freaking Cheap!......A 1911 Is A Like A Piece Of JEWELRY Compared To A Glock!!
@@reillyfamily7557 well not only that idk who wants to run around with 8+1
Never drop the slide on an empty chamber (if it's a Wilson Combat). But it's okay to do on any other semiauto under $3,500.
In the military, we always slammed our M9 slides forward on a daily basis when we did turn in at the end of shift... I didn't hear stories of that causing any issues in the dozens of M9s issued out and turned in every day. Not to say it doesn't technically do minor damage, but I don't know if it does anything noteworthy very often.
They did have to do some significant adjustments to the design of the M9 after all the slide that broke on the early models. I believe at one point there was a bulletin to armorers directing them to replace slides every 1,000 rounds.
It’s not the same thing at all. The 1911 has a long piece of spring steel for an extractor, that inserts through a channel in the rear of the slide and emerges at the breech face. It has to be adjusted and tuned when fitting a new one. The M9 has a much stronger external extractor that can flex outward and serve as a loaded round indicator, so do it all day if you want. This video is specific to the 1911.
EXACTLY!!!! i call BS.
@@themonkster333Yeah, I guess I would call BS too if I couldn’t tell the difference between a 1911 with a spring steel fitted internal extractor, and a Beretta M9, with an external extractor, that can flex out over the rim of the smaller 9mm cartridge, and act as a loaded chamber indicator.
Hint: The video is about 1911s, not Beretta M9’s.
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo Mr. Ayoob did generalization to all autopistols a few times in the video.
A properly fitted extractor on a 1911 should not make contact with the barrel with or without a round chambered. The only thing putting stress on the extractor when the chamber is empty should be its own mass.
Whatever you say, guy who racks the slide with the optic. Was the optic designed to put your greasy finger on it?
John Moses Trijicon is rolling over in his grave.
Oh so we’re back to don’t drop the slide.
Feel free to drop yours, don't drop mine. And I tell that to everyone I've ever handed mine to, including blue-suits.
**the phrase Wilson combat this is as much a hyped term as ninja was back in the 80's.
**If you get in an actual self-defense shooting that weapon goes into evidence and to be out $3,000 or more for a pistol is asinine.
**Plus the fact that if you tried to get another one to replace it, even if you had the money, availability is going to be spotty at best.
**These competition guns which is really what they are.
**They're like knives that have been honed to a razor edge, they dull quickly and blunt easily,
**Better a less sharp but more durable edge that will last, as you don't want your knife to suddenly break or double as a butter knife in combat.
**And if these guns are fitted and honed to where they're so fragile that doing that a few times will break them, then only a fool would carry a glass pistol.
It changes from week to week with these people for not that big of an issues.
@@kirkchartier7141 Well, that would be one perspective.
If your gun is seized into evidence and never returned, as in Monroe County New York, you're issued a voucher for the cost of the firearm.
If you think something that has been "honed" and fine tuned as to be fragile, yet is employed in competition where tens of thousands of rounds are fired per year, and is fragile, you're delusional. One year of competition anything is equivalent to many years in normal usage, as in the case of a firearm, it will be discharged and cycled more in one year than a 1000 pistols will ever be used in their entire lifetime including those lifetimes after they have been inherited.
A ninja, would never go into battle with a butter knife, maybe you would, but no one that wants or needs to win, would.
The parts in competition "anythings" are of far better quality, material, machining, fitment, tolerance, than any off the shelf piece of garbage you would rather stake your life on. If this is truly your take on this, you are a very misinformed person, or just another internet troll with nothing better to do or have of any value something to say. It is a perspective, but you got it all wrong. Just ask a seal team member that uses a wilson combat handgun for duty. Where do you think all of the expertise in this arena came from, the bottom of a milk carton?
@@kirkchartier7141 the only knives that dull easily are ones with junk steel or bad heat treats. a quality knife with a good heat treat (Spyderco imo are the best production knives) and good steel (S30V, s90v, s110v, k390, m390, etc) won't dull easily, even when sharpened to a low edge angle. Especially K390. That steel is amazing, so is M4, and 4V. However they will rust easily, so the S series will work for most. Don't buy gas station knives and expect them to perform. And don't slam the slides closed on finely tuned competition 1911s, or Wilson Combats. Anything else? Send it. I love WC's grips for P320s, they're awesome, but spending thousands on a gun that will break from "abuse". Yeah, that's laughable. LOL
“Don’t look down iron sights. It makes them feel uncomfortable!”
Will need to see some testing done on this, just because it made some gun expert cringe and someones extractor failed doesnt mean dropping the slide is what caused it
It was sweet when he apologized to the little guy 😊
Brownells Smythbusters did a good video on this a while back that basically boiled down to "If you do it once or twice you'll be fine, but don't make it a habit" and "guns with better triggers (think less or more precise sear engagement) will get ruined quicker than others." From that video, my habit has been to not drop the slide on an empty chamber in a 1911, but don't really worry about it on other guns because I don't do it enough and their triggers won't be affected as much.
Yeah it's good advice but what I don't understand is why so many people have such a problem with it. I mean is it really that hard to not drop a slide on an empty chamber for any gun?
I know it's mostly just applicable for 1911 but I never really saw the need to do it with any gun
@@rockylindgren5885 The issue is creating a training scar. If you make a habit of easing down the slide while practicing, you increase the chances of doing the same under stress and inducing a malfunction during a reload.
@1retiredknight lmao a training scar?
How exactly is it a training scar?
You plan to drop the slide on an empty chamber and have an empty gun during combat?😂🤣
Don't know if anyone ever told you this but guns are supposed to lock open when the magazine is empty and you're supposed to put another Magazine with ammo back into it before you drop the slide
@@rockylindgren5885 Are you just trolling or do you really not understand the concept?
If you do the same action two different ways in different circumstances it slows down your time to complete the action under stress as you process which option to implement. There is documented research that shows this.
FACT lol
Been dropping the slide on my Ed Brown for 15 years without a single issue. I guess that's why I never bought a WC.
So what you’re saying is don’t buy Wilson Combat. Got it 👍
If this was a big deal I would think it would be in the manual for every auto loading pistol on the market. I own several (no 1911s) and have yet to find that in the manual.
In the Beretta 92 manuals they even say you can load it by dropping a round in the chamber.
Is it in the manual to not slam your car doors? It's just poor taste.
We're not talking about 'poor taste' are we? We are talking about 'breaking'.@@66smithra
Is slamming your car door actually damaging? I have yet to see a torture test
Moral of the story, either don't buy a frou-frou bougie 1911 (or any gun) that you have to baby so that something doesn't break, or be prepared to give that gun the white glove treatment whenever you use it (which I'm certain is ideal for a pistol that you intend to carry for self defense).
You do understand there's a difference between hard use and abuse, right?
How hard is it to not drop the slide on an empty chamber? Too many mouthbreathers getting into guns 😅
@@ayychrissy1749 You mean like you?
@TrickyCarp Indeed I do. Abuse is more than dropping the slide on an empty chamber occasionally.
My main takeaway was do not buy a Wilson 1911. If the gun will not handle this action/abuse on a regular basis then it has issues that require me to pass. I own several manufacturers of 1911 models but I am so past the hero worship of these guns. I have a Beretta 92 PS, that has well over 80,000 rounds put through it with over 12 years of daily wear and tear for on duty service. The gun is / was taken care of but was used hard and still functions like a new one! I now have used series of Glocks over the past 15 years and not a single issue from any of them.
Haven’t seen an HK break yet 🤷🏾♂️
I find that funny, given what Wilson Combat pistols cost. You mean a $4,000 handgun can’t handle this “abuse”, when my $529 Glock can? Color me skeptical.
All Hail Glocks. 🙌
ehhh, it's because the 1911 is a 100+ year old design. no matter how much someone hand fits a pistol to perfection unless the DESIGN is changed, it will still have inherent issues. Kinda like the infamous CZ 75 roll pin that means you can't dry fire it without snap caps.
but yeah, don't drop the slide on a fine tuned 1911 is normal. But Massad trying to say it damages all guns is just pure idiocy. But then again, it's par for the course for him. He's spouted boomer fuddlore for 30 years (you should really look up the quote he made in one of his books where he stated that you could kill a snake just from the force of a missed .357 sig shot)
Mas, you posted an excellent video. I did not know what I was doing to the auto when pushing the slide release on an empty chamber. I will never hit the slide release on an empty chamber again. Thanks so much for posting. I’m 73 but never too old to try and teach the old dog some new tricks. 😊
It's also called a slide stop, not a slide release. Now there are no more excuses to use it as a release. 😂
@@ceb3275 LOL, nope, this is all fuddlore.
@@ceb3275on some pistols it really is a slide release, see PPQ
@@ceb3275 thanks for the comment. Enjoyed it. :):)
I 've watched and read Mossad A since the early 1980s. In magazines and eventually these videos.
I respect his advice much more than most.
I worry that this advice may only apply to tuned specialist "race" guns.
And not what 99+% of the average people own. Just my opinion. "Food for thought"
I started to think about it and stopped slamming it empty. Just seemed logical. glad to know I’m not the only one, but to see him take it so serious cracks me up.
Why has no one addressed this with a definitive test? Take a sample of at least 20 of the same model handgun; repeatedly drop the slide from the slide stop, with 10 guns having empty chambers and 10 having dummy rounds loaded in the magazines, until all the guns break; report the cycles until failure with each gun; average those for chamber empty vs round in the chamber.
Because they don't stand by what they're saying.
Mas didn't do this video because he likes guns...he did it because he loves kittens.
Meow
Kittens are adorable!
He loves inaccurate boomer science, too. Dropping slides hasn't hurt any gun because it isn't operating under pressure.
36+ years in the military and I'm still learning. Thanks for a great video. I feel so guilty about the abuse I put on my Sig.
How many times did it break?
@@grapetonenatches186Exactly!
@@grapetonenatches186 most people don't shoot or handle their guns nearly enough to break them even with misuse (which with guns mostly accelerates wear failures), doesn't make it not an issue for those of us that do.
....that said this is pretty much a non-issue outside of ultra nice handguns where you really care about the precision
Just be thankful your sig hasn’t abused your man parts yet
SHAME
Thank you Mas & Wilson Combat.
Thank you for spreading awareness on firearm abuse.
Sig extractors don't hit the back of the barrel when the slide goes forward. Sigs and Glocks don't have actual locking lugs.
CZs don't hit either.
Well technically they do have a single locking lug, it's the ejection port and the front ledge of the barrel.
It is a hybrid of two different locks. The Browning tilting barrel lock and the Whiting lock found on the old Webley self loaders. By combining the tilting unlock of the Browning and the locking surface engagement of the Whiting, we get what is properly referred to as the Browning-Whiting lock.
And yes they can peen over time just like any other mechanical item.
I knew about not dropping a round in the barrel to load it but now I am rethinking my whole life 😅
Call the armorer from a Marine base before you start thinking too hard.
@@walkingwolf8072 🤣
"don't piss me off private" would be the retort. I might be psychic!
Lol!
That applies to internal extractors on $$ race guns like shifting in a Corvette.
External extractors on "poor man gats" like a Sig 1911 or other modern pistols like Glock or HKs (ok, not really for the poor) have fewer broken extractors due to dropping one in the pipe.
Double shift your Miata all you want.
@@crewchief5144And that’s what I find hilarious about this. You have to treat an expensive gun with TLC while you can abuse the heck out of a cheap gun. So which gun is really better? I personally think the one that can tolerate abuse is better engineered than one that breaks every time you look at it the wrong way.
You also shouldn’t whip the bishop unless the gonads are fully loaded.
Great!! I will not buy a Wilson combat gun if they are oh so touchy. Thanks!! Much like a gun that you are not supposed to put +P loads in, useless. When you were 12? Was that like 1789?
I’ve been dropping the slide on an empty chamber for years and have never had a single issue and also don’t even care.
Why then did you waste time watching the video?
@@thomaskingsbury6560 I'm just here to argue (and maybe change a few minds) in the comments section
FUDD shiz. Back in their day their 45's shot uphill both ways and when you dropped on an empty chamber the stock market shook.
I get and understand the aspect of excessive wear and the want to reduce unnecessary wear. However most handguns will see thousands of rounds more of live fire than the amount of empty chamber slide dropping through it's life. Quite frankly I expect parts to wear out through wear and tear as all things do. But if dropping the slide on an empty chamber is going to cause so much "accelerated" wear on the gun that I choose to protect my life with maybe it's time to move away from that design and that gun. I suppose if you really want to prevent unnecessary wear on the parts you should just keep it under the glass at the gun store, oh wait well I suppose that would kill the damned thing from the wear of customers handling it, without it firing a shot.
I agree with you, I respect the guy but saying he doesn't trust the very people these weapons were created for is a dumb thing to say.
A wee little butt-hurt are we?
@@revejmal Reread my comment, I never said anything about him not trusting people. Get out of your own head.
Thanks Mass! I didn’t know this.
'drop teh slide on an empty chamber' is done after every stage of every match of every sport i've ever participated in. This is the first i'm hearing this. Never known anyone to have an issue...sure, it may wear out but it's gonna wear out anyway.
I have a buddy who does this all the time. I tried to explain why it's a bad practice but...he's not convinced. I always control the slide when it's closing on an empty chamber.
Just buy a german gun they don’t break if you breath on them
a lot of twitter experts will get mad at this video "the gUn Is dEsigNed to HanDle it!". which is what makes it based.
This is one reason I especially don't like new shooters choosing 1911s as their first pistol. When you're teaching a new shooter how to clear their pistol, it can be challenging to have them clear AND ease the slide forward simultaneously. Ideally, you want the new shooter (especially if they're a woman) to use a reliable amount of force to clear a round from the chamber, then after the round is ejected, focus on locking the slide back to the rear separately. But you can't do that with these 1911s because then you're letting the slide slam forward on an empty chamber.
Now, if you teach them to rack the slide slowly and to hold onto the slide to ease it forward, women shooters especially will commonly short stroke it and not eject the round from the chamber or be able to lock the slide back.
This. @@musicman1eanda
I had a buddy who used to drop a round into his .45 and close the slide on it. Later I see a video similar to this one saying you can break the extractor because on a 1911 it's not spring powered; it's fixed in place, the rim of the casing rides under it when chambering and goes behind it, it doesn't lever on a spring like modern guns. So every time he did it he was bending the extractor. Also, and this one was wild, he did it in front of me again and I said "Now look at the bullet you just did that with." He pulled it out, looked at it, and it had a dimple in the primer!!!! So every time he did that in his house the gun could have fired if it had sensitive primers in the casing.... He got lucky!
Mas, the kitten bit seriously made me lol. 😂😂😂
If ANY gun can't handle this, its not worth owning.
People need to just do what warriors have done forever...
*Take care of your weapons and they'll take care of you.*
I think your right its stressing the firearm ... but with IDPA and USPSA when finished a stage with my Glock I must remove the magazine ,lock the slide back which ejects any round in the chamber,show the empty chamber to the Range Officer and MYSELF ,get the ok then drop the slide with the slidelock and pointed at the berm pull the trigger "click" then holster it.There are thousand so of most of us in those organizations doing that every month at events.
You guys must have a warehouse full of broken gun parts huh? Send pictures.
I've never seen or heard from anyone not to do it in those circles with maybe the exception of 2011/1911 owners because of the precision of part fitment of a $5-10k firearm.
@@matthewriegner5180 The Marines shooting competition drop the slide on an empty chamber. They have to do it when turning in their guns.
@@walkingwolf8072 Enough with "the Marines" comments. If that's your metric for knowledge then you have set your bar extremely low.
@@noquartergiven7789 show us on the doll where the mean Marines hurt you?
Wilson combat has done the impossible! They converted Ayoob into a Fudd.
Converted, he is one of the OG Fudds.
Every gun nut becomes a Fudd if they make it to an old enough age. Or so my theory goes. When you let technology and technique pass you by for years because you're satisfied with what knowledge you have, you start to convince yourself that you know it all and that any new claims are inexperienced people being silly. That's why you still got these old guys scoffing at red dots and insisting that all guns still need manual thumb safeties.
How so?
He's been a Fudd since the 90's, possibly earlier.
Master of all Fudds. I'm so sick of Mas and his propaganda
No offense meant to anyone but…I can understand new shooters taking Mr. Ayoob’s word for it, but it’s interesting that many commenters claim decades of personal experience, and literally thousands of first hand experiences either witnessing this “abuse” or performing it themselves without a single instance of it resulting in a broken gun, but still take his word for it as if they had no first hand experience (evidence to the contrary). Why completely ignore what you know to be true by years of first hand experience because someone you admire claims something to the contrary?
BEST Comment man!
a lesson in psychology.
@Bryanhaycock672: Because Noobs and Fudds worship Guntubers.
Note: I've been shadow-banned by several guntuber channels for pointing out hypocrisy and deliberate misinformation they provide.
Uh, because we HAVE witnessed pounded hammer/sear engagements leading to degraded triggers, and broken extractor hooks? Who said there’s never been a single instance?
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo prove it with video documentation with 2 new pistols/rifles until then..its deemed by the Court of the Opinion here, as Fudd Lore.
i own glocks, i won’t with a 1911 or a hammer fired gun. but i have 30k rounds on one of my glocks and ive probably slammed the slide every single day at least 40 times a day for the last ten years, its my fidget toy. probably on average closer to 100x a day. and i’ve replaced the extractor one single time. stock barrel, stock spring, stock takedown pin, stock trigger. gen 3 G19. thing is a champ
im just here for the comments.
Yes! I don’t know what it is about this particular channel, but the comments section turns into an absolute sewer!
What if we don’t like cats?
Excellent advice , you learn something new everyday.
I guess nobody should tell the US military about dropping the slide on an empty chamber. Millions upon millions of times, not one problem that i know of. Even the M45A1 we used in the Marine Corps....
Thanks for the explanation. I don't recall having been told that by anyone except my dad, and he, too, said it causes extractor failure -- on _any_ automatic!
On semi outomatics, too. Not everybody has automatics, of course. I think that he was addressing the 1911, for the most part.
You would be incredibly wrong
@@countschadThat's what he's talking about. Auto. Auto loader. .45 auto. .45 GAP, Glock Automatic Pistol. How have you never heard of a semi automatic referred to as an auto or automatic?
@@section8usmc53 Semi automatics are referred to as automatics by the ignorant media all the time. Yes, I've heard that. Auto does stand for "auto loading" pistol, not automatic.... You are correct about that.
aNy aUtOmAtiC