How Did the Vikings Celebrate YULE?
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Yule today is just another word for Christmas to many of us, but a thousand years ago it was an important part of the Norse religious calendar! Join me in a brief chat about Yule, Christmas, Modraniht, and more about Viking and Norse religion as we say goodbye to 2020 and hello to 2021!
I mention the wonderful @historywithhilbert146 in this video. Check him out!
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Edit: Re-uploaded because CZcams wrecked my audio on the original upload. It's still on here, but is now unlisted. Many apologies.
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Editing Jimmy: I obviously meant Winter Solstice, not Winter Equinox. That's... not a thing.
😂 we know...
Oh man you had me questioning my sanity for a moment!! Siri!!??
yep, thoroughly confused. Good Yule!
Pfpfththahahahahaaaaa!!!! :) I myself, dyslexify shite like that all the time... lol
Oopsie
Dear Jimmy,
If you think about saying "if that sounds interesting, let me know" -- please know, we want the video.
Too true! Most of us are interested in everything Jimmy wants to tell us.
I have to agree! We want to know!!!
Very true!
Fourthed!!
Yep, pretty much.
As a Neo-nordic pagan, I celebrate Yule (Dec 21- Jan 2) in celebration of winter and the new year. The modern Goddess celebrated is Skadi (Goddess of winter).
My "sacrifice" is usually at least a shot of home-brewed mead or wine.
And we still use the word jul/jól for christmas in the nordic countries today ;)
I have a hypothesis that only those who lived far enough south to see the sun rise on the winter solstice would have considered that their main winter celebration. Up in the Arctic Circle, I think the first sighting of the sun after the midwinter darkness would have been the date that was more significant. After all, we _still_ celebrate it, and while it isn’t an official holiday because the date varies from place to place, and possibly also because the governments of countries with Arctic territory are all much further south, we still do our to celebrate. In Hammerfest, the first sighting of the sun is marked with a cannon salute and taking the rest of the day off.
The main thing is that we still call it yule (jul)! Which I think is quite nice. There's this small sacrifical element kept (?) too, although I think it's becoming quite rare. It's too put out some porridge for "tomten. Originally it was done for "gårdstomten" (the yard/farm gnome) to show appreciation and appease him. The gårdstomte was thought to do invisible work around the farm and sort of bring good (or bad) luck. Since adopting Santa Claus, and calling him Jultomten, things have gotten a bit confused. So when I was a kid it was said to be for "tomten", implying Santa. But they are very different figures. Also, the biggest celebration is done during Christmas Eve and Santa is expected to SHOW UP during the evening which means there is often a whole charade about some adult disappaering for an errand only for Santa to show up with presents and so on. Before Santa (Jultomten) was introduced there was another figured called Julbocken (Yulegoat) that delivered presents during like the 19th century. God Jul from Sweden!
Guess what, in germany it is even more complicated.🙄 First there where Wotan and Holda/Perchts visiting the humans filling the shoes. Then they where replaced by Sankt Nikolaus, but he was replaced too, by the "Christchild", which transformed into a joung woman look alike Holda/Perchta, which comes together with "Knecht Ruprecht" who has a similarity to Wotan, and in other regions it is just the "Weihnachtsmann/Santa Claus", who comes, but he reminds very strong of Wotan... Nowadays he tends to replace the "Christchild". What a confusion.
A food sacrifice to appease the local spirits/supernatural beings has definitely remained a tradition in Norway as well.
In Finland we celebrate Joulu (yo-lu), Jul (yul) in Sweden/swedish. Most Finns aren't that religious nowadays even though most are lutherian christians. Winter days get really dark and short here, in the most northern regions sun will set and not come up for a couple of months. So people are very much aware and celebrate the fact the days will again start getting longer at Joulu.
There are quite a bit of remnants of old nature worship and old deities and spirits in our culture or at least a memory of old traditions and in our mindset. I think some families still make a bowl of porridge for the house/christmas "gnome"/spirit/elf (kotitonttu/joulutonttu) - he used to get mead/beer too.
Our word for Father Christmas is Joulupukki, literally Yule Goat. We've had a bit of mixing of the autumn celebrations of harvest and death and Christmas. He has similarities with Krampus too. The modern global image of Father Christmas is actually linked to Finland. The Coca-Cola Christmas dude that has had major influence on it was designed by an artist of Finnish origin. The whole month of November is actually named after death in finnish (but it's an old word so hardly no one knows that).
I'm not sure where the tradition of the christmas tree came from - I've heard Germany? But we used to have a similar thing attached to several different celebrations. The midsummer celebration (also a HUGE festivity in Finland with a tradition of midsummer spell castings) is connected to the birch tree. A pair of birch trees is still often put on both sides of the main entrance to a home at midsummer for good luck. Certain trees used to be important to have in the yard of a home. Some of them inhabited/symbolized the dead family members who used to live in the family home. Not sure if wicker (that has medicinal properties) at Easter time is an old thing, but wouldn't be surprised. We still have the tradition of kids dressing up as witches and going around the neighbourhoods singing spells for health and good luck. It has been getting more and more influenced by halloween by anglo-american culture. The spells are bound into decorated branches of the wicker tree with those white fluffy things (we call then wicker cats) and are given to people who in turn give treats or money in return to the little witches. People don't really talk about this tradition in these terms and don't believe in the magic, but that is technically what happens :D It's a wonder the tradition has survived because people did use to be quite strict Christians. But it has been interpreted as a christian tradition (and may be that??Not sure) - the tree branches are thought as the palm leaves spread on Jesus's feet or something etc.
Bit of rambling.
I loved your “rambling”! What you’ve shared is fascinating and made my evening ❤
@@heatherercse Thanks! I'm glad 😄
There's only one word to describe Hakon's moving Yule to Christmas: sneaky.
Yes please on the Viking religion video 😊
Every year, my inner language geek is amused by the similarity of the Finnish and Swedish words for Christmas (joulu/jul) and Yule. Finnish isn't even in the same language family as Swedish, Norwegian and co, but we still be call the celebration with a similar word.
Here's to the days getting longer again 😁
Well, even unrealted languages can borrow words from each other, often quite extensively. English, for example, is a Germanic language by structure, but over half of its *vocabulary* comes from Latin, in one way or the other.
Joulu is a loanword borrowed from swedish so it's not by chance they are similar. Unlike with japanese words that are neither similar because of the languages being related nor because of borrowing words. Although they also usually don't mean the same thing - because they are same/similar by chance. The word for "no" is funny though. In Finnish it's "ei" and Japanese "ie".
Its called a "loan word". The languages have no similarity and are derived from entirely different roots, One is indo-european the other is Finno-Urgik. There are many shared words by virtue of proximity, nothing more.
I've studied both Finnish and Swedish for years and know that it's likely a loan word@@shawncarter5619 :)
Would love a video that describes what we know about Viking religion that goes beyond a summary of the mythology as it was recorded by Christians, which is what is most usually the description of Viking religion one gets.
❣
I viking religion? 😂
Everybody who's interested in the subject, check out Jackson Crawford's channel. He's a scholar specialising in Old Norse and has a lot of fascinating videos on the Viking religion and the sources of our knowledge about it.
“Enjoy the days getting longer”
*cries in Australian*
Don’t get me wrong, I love the solstices. I just don’t love it when the sun tries to kill us.
Love hearing 'common belief' about winter solstice festivals set straight by simply quoting an existing historical document!!
Please please please do a proper deep-dive video about norse/germanic religion! I have been doing a lot of research recently into the evolution of indo-european religions, and especially the links between germanic, nose, baltic, and slavic paganism. Always enjoy your content and would LOVE to see your take on this.
An episode without tea would just be weird. I love the shield ornament! Definitely need to make one. Definitely was always taught that Christians took yule and moved it. It's interesting knowing it's the opposite.
Aw, that's the part I don't like -- the days get longer again. Winter is so short, and goes by so fast. HAPPY HOLIDAYS! Stay well, Stay warm!
Thank you for sharing this bit of history on the midwinter celebration. It's sad how so much knowledge of ancient traditions is either uncertain or lost entirely in the course of time. It's also somewhat comforting to know one thing remains unchanged throughout the millennia: we feast to celebrate! :)
Merry Everything!
Having really taken a dive into Viking . . . uh, everything since the pandemic began, this year was the first I truly paid attention to the winter solstice and traditions. Perfect timing for your video. Thank you for doing it. Happy Solstice!
The idea of a Blood Flicking School of Thought makes me strangely happy.
"Whatever animal you have to spare...". I disagree here, considering the value of what is left from sacrifices we can materially access (river deposits, etc). Likely they sacrificed the animal they MOST valued. It is a sacrifice, afterall. Loving your channel. We need more academic information on this culture.
Love these videos! The word still survives in Scandinavia as our name for Christmas, and I love thinking about the ways words and names survive from our history.
Also, amazing tree!
Thank you for mentioning that the Sol Invictus cult wasn't really a thing until the mid-third century CE. I'm so tired of hearing that the Christians stole Christmas from Sol Invictus, when we have evidence for the Christian festival before the origins of the Sol Invictus cult, and they're thus basically totally independent but parallel constructions. The idea that "pagan = lost in the mists of time and automatically archaic" is a persistent myth that is given full credence by too many people in both the pagan/polytheist circles as well as on the Christian side without regard to actual, established, and recorded history on these things.
I love hearing of history and looking to The past to explain what we do now . I have celebrated winter solstice as long as I remember. I salt the doorways then bake a traditional cake . I never questioned it’s origins till today so thanks x
In my very Catholic French Creole region of my state the celebration of Christmas was observed with the evolution and development of large bonfires to “light the way for Papa Noël”.
A very important educational institution that opened just prior to the mid-1800s brought Marists Priests to the area to educate the young men of the region. These Marist priests from Normandy brought to this area the tradition of the bonfires of that European area which seems to be part of the evolution from the Yule log that Norman France reportedly practiced at the time of the Winter Soltice/Christmas. The bonfires of this area lit on Christmas Eve are unique to the entire Central Gulf Coast. Since the region is comprised mostly of wetlands there’s little in the way of the traditional Evergreen “fir” type trees that the large German/Alsatian population had access to in Europe before their immigration to America. In the wetlands there is an broadleaf evergreen tree, the Wax Myrtle (Myrica cerifera), that my German ancestors found readily available and brought into their homes and decorated as Christmas Trees.
A bit different adaptation of European Christmas Traditions that evolved here in the US.
Blessed be and festive Yule to you and yours Jimmy! #Wicca
Love the blinged out shield!
Silly CZcams, making Editing Jimmy's life harder. *tsktsk*
Thanks. Much easier on my aged ears. Happy Yule/Equnox/*Tuesday*!
Many Solstice Blessings to you Jimmy. I fully appreciate your historical take. We just came in from watching all the cool celestial goings on. Now it's time to light the candles, pour some cider, and celebrate.
Blessed Be❄❄❄
How did I miss this one last year? Thanks for sharing such cool Yule information.
Paused video to say: “THANKS FOR THE DATE!” Wish more people did this!
We live in Alaska, and really enjoyed doing a yulemass start on the solstice without young children . We value the light returning greatly. We made candles to burn with our intentions. a big feast, had a moment of reflect in the bb darkness then lit our candles and bonfire made a offering to the elves and small folk took it out to a tree lli a candle on it and enjoyed our fire burned our Yule log
That's awesome to learn more about historical paganism from a research perspective, thank you so much ! I'd love to see more about that !
Thank you so much for fixing the audio. Sleep tight!
A wonderful and informative video! Happy Solstice!
I am Dutch-German, and I have been seeking to learn more about my pre-Christian heritage, this is timely and lovely. Thank you!
A very Happy Solstice and Merry Christmas to you both. Take care and keep safe.
Thank you - this was so interesting! ⭐
yaaaas please do a video on Norse Gods and when they were celebrated! Love your voice dude 💜
This video popped up in my feed today and I really appreciated the information. I'm doing some research into the pagan origins of Christmas and Yule, as well as other things. This was great. And yeah... it's literally Monday. lol Thanks for this video!
The first ten seconds seriously made my day ! Well, night, I saw it right when it came out. Weirdly enough the audio was perfectly fine for me, a couple of minutes after it came out. Who even knows what CZcams did.
As always, it is a pleasure learning a little in excellent company. I wish you a happy festive season, and I will be eagerly waiting for your Mary Lwyd !
well its good to hear the bits i missed first time. was beginning to think our internet was playing up again. you have fun.
I'm surprised and not surprised that you are friends with Hilbert! He is another favorite in my subs! Thanks for clarifying viking Yule. I'd welcome any presentation on feast days or holy days. Honestly, I'll watch anything you present because I know it's gonna be good.
Thank you for this really interesting video. Blessings of a summer solstice to you (seeing as I'm in the Southern Hemisphere I'm not celebrating a winter solstice for about 6 months! )
Hi Jimmy! Keep up the adorableness
Ooh that mug looks like it’s from Williamsburg Pottery, I have one just like it
I'm now going to make tiny viking shields to hang on my tree. :-D
I hope you and Editing Jimmy have a happy and healthy holiday season! Also the day I am happy that light is coming back is the day I'm no longer a vampire so, yanno. >.>
In Denmark we still celebrate 3 days of yule. The 24, 25 and 26 of december. The big day is of cause the 24. The other 2 days is called first yule day and second yule day, and we usually celebrate that with lunch with friends and/or family, that we didn't see on the 24. So the church couldn't change it completly to their likings. Furthermore, the church werent able to change the celebration to something of a more christianity based name, like the did in almost all other countries. It is still yule, or jul, as it it spelled in Denmark.
Audio fixed! Thanks Editing Jimmy 😁
*Takes a bow. Collapses into bed*
Blessed Yule!! You sir are a gem!! I've learnt so much from your videos that I've watched so far theres no way I could miss todays video!! It's my first yule!
And to confuse things further in scandinavia we talk about Jul (yule) and it simply means christmas
Oh, CZcams, ruining all of Editing Jimmy's good work in ruining the audio. Hopefully that doesn't become a more common thing at all. Still! Yes, a Norse and/or Viking religion video would be amazing. That would be so cool to hear about some of the proper historic practices and beliefs and all. Thank you for the amazing Yule video!
In scandinavia we say YULE , we drop the E and say JUL and we write it JUL (Y)
And a very happy Solstice/Yule/holiday to you, kind Welsh Viking, sir!
Great video, just one thing the norse linguist in me wanted to point out, the word "blòt" has no relation to the word "blood" in modern English; they sound similar but they aren't etymologically related. Blòt is just the Old Norse word for "sacrifice". :)
I was lead to believe it was cognate to the Old English blōt and they shared a Proto-Germanic root meaning “blood”, so there’s the confusion.
In Denmark, we celebrate Christmas (which is called jul) on the 24th of December, not the 25th. Has that got something to do with Hakon as well?
I make my friends and family THOR'S GOATS!! And I make my friends a big feast of chicken, pork, veg I love to go all out this time of year 😁🤙
Did you upload this twice? I don’t mind rewatching this but I shared your video earlier and wanted to make sure that link still works. Love the video, despite the verbal slip-up XD, and it’s very interesting thank you for doing this!
Hey! The link still works, but CZcams wrecked the audio on the original upload, so this one is a re-upload. Thank you SO much for sharing it, Sachi! That's really cool of you :) If you want to paste the URL to this one instead, the share post still works (as I just discovered on all my social media! XD )
@@TheWelshViking I will! Thank you for looking out for us.
Oh good to know I was thinking I had lost my grip on time and space!!!
I like the idea of sacrificing mead and then getting flicked with it! yum 🙂
You forgot about the wild hunt and all the traditions around christmas. Have you ever heard of the "Perchta/Holda"? What about evergreen in the house, cake and so on.
Please, I want to hear everything you know about their religion.
I decorate an evergreen tree, burn a big log, burn a straw goat effigy on that fire, exchange gifts, then feast, and then get baked on rice krispie treats made with cannabis butter.
It is said , that one of nice things, that the danish vikings brought to England was our language. There’s a lot of evidence to that say. Just listen to our talk, and you’ll find that a lot of old words, actually are the same.
You celebrate Yule, which we call Jul. It’s pronounced in the same way, and is also for some a festive day/days in mid winter ❄️. That is until Christianity takes over. We in Denmark, celebrate Christmas on the 24., on Christmas Eve, probably as a part of the old traditions.
According to history, the danish king Harrald (our first king), was also king of Norway, and he was the one to introduce Christianity, to his kingdom. This being Denmark, Norway, a small part of Sweden and at some point England .
God jul!
We still call it "jul" in Scandinavia, and only a very small minority of people actually celebrate it truly religiously anymore.
I suppose our jul has finally developed away from most of the religion, and is now mostly a yearly family get together with gifts, food and alcohol.
It's basically the old yule, but without religion and sacrifice (sans the religious holiday songs).
A big lovely mishmash of tradition that has been somewhat removed from religion, befitting of our secular society.
I'll have to enjoy summer solstice instead, being in Australia!
"..we all know this, of my godness" 🤣
Fun fact that the solstice isn't necessarily the latest sunrise or earliest sunset. The sunrise and sunset are slightly off set and don't exactly come together due to fun astronomy earth shape and tilt.
And that is why the midsummer and midwinter festivals tended to be about three days.
I load up on Wassel and read LOTR
Outstanding!
Perfect.
I find myself here again 😅
Jimmy, are there googly eyes on your shield ornament or am I "seeing" things?
There are 👀
In Finnish Christmas is called joulu, it is intresting that this word is very close to yule
Just a wee word to say end of December/early January was a great time of year for a fertility festival. The livestock you tried to breed would have been showing the pregnancy if the breeding took, and if not? Well then, fresh meat for a feast!
What are the reasons for the tree ?
About flicking blood at Yule, from just a totally pragmatic viewpoint, blood is difficult to get out of clothes, and no one wants to be washing wool in the Winter. If that ever happened, I’m sure it was not necessarily popular after because blood looks disgusting on your clothes. It sounds like a made up version to describe the event negatively. Perhaps blood shaken in the snow would have an interesting effect, but was that mentioned?
Point. All nordic countries along with Germany and a few other European countries celebrate Jul on the 24th. All the way up in 19th century ( in Sweden at least) there was a tradition with a Julbock( a yule billy goat) to visit the homes and do pranks, throw gifts in to the home or just a piece of fire wood if you been bad when you opened the door. It was usually the younger men getting together and one would dress up as a goat. Even as a Santa Claus figure got popularized his sled was not drawn by reindeer but by a goat. Also there is a still very much alive tradition with special christmas bread, lussebullar, with traditional shapes that are clearly dating back before christianity. This all in Sweden. Also we celebrate Lucia the 13 th of december. Yes, it is not really a very old tradition but I dont think it is a coincidence we are celebrating a slain saint of light that time of the year and with that bread.
can I ask where you studied? you seem like a solid scholar, through and through!
He's currently in Edinburgh so university of Edinburgh is probably a safe bet... Although PhD students could be anywhere...
Fact: Yule was Not celebrated on the the Winter Solstice. It was celebrated on the the Full Moon following the first New Moon After the Winter Solstice. King Haakon changed the celebrated day to the Winter Solstice so pagans would have to celebrate the same day as Christians. Christmas was celebrated on the Winter Soltice according to the old Julian calander, this was changed to the 24/25 with the Gregorian Callender. Yule was a 3 day holiday, not 12.
Lot of nuance missed here. Bear in mind many Orthodox churches refused to adopt the 25th as the date for Christmas.bear in mind the 25th was the celebration date for Christmas for centuries before the invention of the Gregorian calendar. Bear in mind Yule was celebrated on different dates by different cultures.
@@TheWelshViking That's interesting, I didn't know that about the Orthodox. Do they still celebrate the 21st?
Solstice!
Hogswatch for me!
Agreed with everything. I'd add that we have a christmas tree at home during this holiday because ancient norse use to do this to commemorate Yggdrasil during Yule
Have you done a video on Mari Laud?
Sorry I spelled that wrong Lwyd. And I found it!
*Watches it again so the video gets all the views*
You're an absolute treasure :D
About 2/3rds of the way in, I noticed your shield ornament has googly eyes... I can't seem to focus on anything else now.
Equinox ?
The Danish word "hjul" means "wheel". Jul is pronounced as "yule". "J" in Danish is pronounced as a "y". The seasons turn around like a wheel from season to season.
This all makes perfect sense, nothing is simply one thing overlaid with another (in the vast majority of cases) but lots of things mixed up and which often, eventually, becomes known under one name.
And you can't get more of a fertility celebration than the birth of a child. Must reread Bede, I have his book but haven't read him since I was a teenager, it's well past time I dug him out and read his excellent prose again.
As to Yule and the sprayed with blood bit. A friend who studied this for years, lectured in Norse mythology and was himself an Odinist (WHICH IS NOT WHITE SUPREMACISM despite the attempts of some to claim this) was never sure on the subject either. His wife, on the other hand was, and has stated many times that while being sprayed with blood is something men would find quite entertaining - for whatever reason - it is also something no sane wife/mother/female member would. Because guess who would have the task of getting the blood out of the clothing, at a time of year when washing/drying clothes was difficult at best. Only a man would think that being sprayed with blood was a good idea (and I can see her point). Something that, not surprisingly, a number of other women re-enactors also agreed with. Sounds fun until you have to clean the clothes, and I'm fairly confident that NONE of the men would have even thought of this minor fact, then or now.
You keep saying the 25th. We (I am from Scandinavia) dont celebrate Jul on the 25th but the 24th
That may be a later development because beginning the Jul at midnight would be a lot harder up here, so they moved it ahead to the afternoon before (now typically at five in the afternoon).
i've never in my life celebrated "christmas", i celebrate juletid (yuletide)!
(im a norwegian)
Cool
Mithras was born on December 25th and was a popular mystery religion amongst Romans despite originating as a pre-Zoroastrian religion.likely where the date came from.
Sadly that's a bit misleading. There's no ancient evidence at all that Mithras was born on the 25th of December, and it's probably a modern confusion with the festival of Sol Invictus, which was held then in later Rome. Mithras was definitely based on Mithra, but that's from a firmly Zoroastrian tradition, which the Romans usually just called "Persian". Good old Rome!
Im Yule that is my name. First name
What!? No lutefisk?
How do you actually pronounce
Mmmmm got me thinking, dangerous I know. If in fact king Hakon did bring Yule forward and in line with Christianity then was that christmas as the northern and Western Europeans celebrated it or as a whole. Im not religious but i have read that jesus was born in March and that when Christianity swept across Europe the christ mass or Christmas was made mid December to make it easier to get people to convert from their various forms of paganism
Seems to me christianity muddled up a very fine mid winter festival for a multitude of cold viking dudes. "Uh.... who do we or what are we sacrificing for now???" Now will the sun come back?
according to norse texts Yule/Jol was 3 full moons after winter nights and lasted 3 days. Norse pagans (historically) celebrate all of their holidays on full moons not solstices or equinoxes.
Which Norse texts say that? I'm not aware of any and would love to read them :)
Are you saying norse folk invented pouring one out for the homies?
Some Pope back in the early dark ages decided to put the birth of Jesus at the midwinter to compete or complement the various winter festivals. Long before the 10th century. He wanted to coopt all none Christian holidays so that converting people was easier. The 25th probably happened due to the whole Julian and Gregorian calendar mess.
I think the earliest dating to the 25th was Hippolytus of Rome somewhere in the 3rd century, so definitely not in the dark ages (we prefer early medieval!), and he was no Pope. The Gregorian Calendar wasn't introduced until the 16th century, so it definitely wasn't that!
It may have been a way to bring Sol Invictus into line with already flourishing Christian celebrations, which is a fun twist!
@@TheWelshViking it has been a few decades since I debated the Christian history with my ex who was passionately into 11th century mysticism with a more then passing regret for loss of Celtic Christianity to the dominance of Rome.
@@lenabreijer1311 Celtic Catholicism went down the pan, it would have been fun to have had hereditary bishoprics!
@@TheWelshViking Weeeeeell in my hometown, we've had a father and a son be bishops one after the other in the late 17th century, iirc... But it's because the father got the position of bishop once he was I think widowed, and had grown children. Will have to report on it when I visit that one museum again.
Nice video. But it is Håkon not Hakon. In Old Danish aa also means å. So Haakon is prenounced like Håkon. Å in Håkon is prenounced like the o in the english words hold and old.
It’s actually a more extended ō sound more comparable to the o of horse unless you go by received pronunciation.
@@TheWelshViking Thank you for answer. It is not easy (for a dane) to find an english Word with the correct å sound. And it must be difficult for you to prenounce letters not used in your alfabet. But i find your videos interesting. By the way, I just learned today that museum people found out that people in Denmark alredy believed in Odin before year 500. Keep up the good work😄🇩🇰
Diolch cariad.
Mead mead mead
The problem with the christian date for Christmas is just, that nobody knows the date of Jesus birth and celebrating a birthday is a pagan tradition and in the bibel it is told, it is forbidden. So what does the christians celebrate in the midwinter???