MIDI Guitar 2 by Jam Origin vs Axon Ax 100 - Hardware or software?
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- čas přidán 4. 02. 2021
- A comparison / review of Jam Origin's MIDI guitar 2 plugin versus my Axon Ax 100 hardware unit.
Check out my studio business, My Mix Master - www.mymixmaster.co.uk
Here's music I've made over the years with MIDI guitar:
THING - open.spotify.com/artist/06Da1...
LAPIS LAZULI - open.spotify.com/artist/5xl2n...
mymixmaster
mymixmaster
Music by THING -
x._thing_.x
thing17
Great video, just what I needed. Not too much technical just clear observation of how it all works in practice. Thanks!
This is about the best review of MIDI2Guitar I have seen, IE properly calibrates it against what’s on the market in hardware. I am in a little bit of discussion about some finer points of the UI on my iPad Pro M1, but the core product is solid, it does work. I’ll be better qualified to opine, once I can slot it into a song somewhere. Take care, keep well, thanks for the considerable effort in making this comparison. NOTE: there has arisen a question in many ‘midi guitar’ videos about whether these things are actually much involving MIDI at all - they certainly involve digitising of what otherwise would be an analogue output from a guitar. If I can use the M2G app, it patently is in a different price bracket. I think my own latency might be down in part to my guitar interface being what I have discovered to be the slug-like speeds of even a fast USB-C/USB connection. Not terrible, but noticeable and limiting. I replaced my USB-C hub, with a ThunderBolt 3 dock/hub by Belkin, and this cured the latency that was irritating me with my Novation MIDI keyboard.
This, despite the fact the keyboard actually goes through an Anker USB3 hub BEFORE even getting to the TB3 Belkin 95 connector. All of this arose from me carefully considering the limitations of the new iPad Pro having just one connector physically mounted in the chassis. I am now of the view Apple got this correct - I never move my ‘mobile’ device from my music setup, or rarely, and having the messy multiple cables and backup drive and etc, connected to the Belkin is much better - and the power throughput to charge the iPad is massive, because it was intended as a dock for an apple Mac, hence huge power throughput. Again, thanks.
great video mate. as soon as you started playing the ax 100 though, no contest!
Yeah I was surprised as this plugin has rave reviews!
Wicked Neil, you are still a legend! Good video, love your new studio :-)
Cheers Frank, good to hear from you!
@@mymixmaster1614 Good to see you! I see you are using logic in your studio, are you pretty good with it? Im trying to make dance music using it but need someone knowledgable to show me how to use it well
@@2bfrnk Good to see your hands and hear you! I've been using Logic for nearly 20 years now so I'm really confident with it yeah! Message me on Facebook about it if you want to talk about it or arrange something :)
Cheers for the video dude.
Good info dude! Been exploring how we can take our music live. I'm more a guitarist than a pianist so recreating our electronic sound would be much easier using strings as the controller.
I'm glad you found it useful dude! It's great for composition also - you will have years of fun if you like electronic music and play the guitar....enjoy!
Great vid dude
Cheers Loz!
The kind of content I would have like to create, thank you!!! I will probably in a near future do it with my Godin ACS and other hardwares and for the french community.
I would say that a certain amount of Midi Guitarist add a string muter (or string dampener) on the top of the neck it seems to help reduce the amount of ghost notes.
Cheers Vincent, I'd like to see how the Godin compares. I have heard of this trick but I switch between 'real' guitar and MIDI guitar many times in a song when I play live so I need a solution that doesn't mute the strings. For studio use though it's a good idea.
@@mymixmaster1614 : the string muter is placed between the nut and the tuners to avoid strings between these two points from resonating by sympathy.
You can also consider a tennis cuff (is it the right word?) and move it over the 1st fret as done for two hands tapping so you may also avoid sympathy reaction there. Jenny Batten long used a little mechanical system with a dampener.
The only issue is if you play stuff with open strings.
@@harounel-poussah6936 Yes a few have mentioned that in other comments. I'm sure it would help. My issue with that is playing live and switching quickly between guitar and MIDI.
@@mymixmaster1614 : although I've never did so because I was more in no synth bands, IMHO, the best way to go is to use control changes sent by your midi-pedal and have a ftsw ordering guitar-Vol=127 synth-Vol=0 then guitar-vol=0 synth vol=127if pressed again.
You may also affect an exp-pedal as a balance : the exp will control guitar volume 0->127 AND the synth volume 127->0
Actually, I have a hard time having more than 2 machines affected by program changes while working together...
At the same time, it highly depends on how the machines are user-friendly: with some apparatuses it was super-easy to do, with othersn even by RTFM I couldn't figure out how to do so then called for help.
I appreciate your time and effort comparing the two systems. I was wondering if the axon is going into a daw like the midi guitar jam origin. I enjoyed your honest review especially when you tell us like it really is. its terrible. thanks from the yukon -24 outside today with wind chill its down to the -40. burr time to practice guitar inside. thanks again for sharing
Thanks mate! It was fun to do but yes time consuming....cor that does sound cold, it's a very mild winter here in England, not even below freezing most nights!
Thanks for the vid. I like the open minded approach, but you are comparing a system you know well with a system you barely know. I'd like to see you revisit your results after you have really settled in with MG2 and learned all the tips and tricks which make it work well. e.g. In Jam Origin's Midi Guitar 2 to avoid false triggers it helps to use a hair scrunchy or fret wrap to kill the open strings on note release and raise the noise gate. The noise gate sets the quietest sound that MG2 will attempt to convert. In this video @7:32 it is set to off. Breathing near the strings will trigger at this setting! At highest settings it will shut you down completely, so the range of sensitivity is there as long as the signal into your DAW is set properly.
Thanks Alistair, I take your point that I know the Axon very well compared to the Jam Origin. I did make quite an effort to get rid of the false triggering off-camera. The noise gate didn't make a difference where it was set, neither did the input gain on the interface. I even went back after filming to double check this as I couldn't believe that would be the case so I'm sure of what I am saying. Perhaps it is a bug. Have you encountered the issue I had with the major 7ths?
@@mymixmaster1614 No, but others have. Just tested 137 and 1573 voicings with no issues. Minor 2nd can be squirrely! (I use quite a low input gain, single medium loud note averaging about -32dB on a Youlean Loudness Meter app, but that's more to level match between bass and melody sides of the Stick and still have enough headroom if I crank the low end on the preamp...) I don't know if you've been on the Jamosapien forum yet. It's where I found this video.
@@alistairbegg2969 It's the chords I am playing around @2:00 try (E)X-10-12-11-0-0 and X-7-9-8-0-0 if you get time. I don't recall the input level to the DAW but I went as low as possible before there was no signal at all as I wanted to be sure when this kind of conversation came up!
@@alistairbegg2969 I will check the forum though, haven't heard of it before!
Yup, I'm getting definite weirdness occurring with those! Played as block chords the lower notes drop out. More stable when arpeggiated except when there's a minor second. Where there are unisons, if you don't release the old one, the new one does not trigger. Wasn't getting the unstable root note you had though. Sounds cleaner with bend off. How does it sound with a fret wrap or at least something to suppress the open E?
Cool video, would be cool to see a midi guitar like the jammy e in there
Cheers....yeah would be interesting but I don't have one of those!
Love the panels
Cheer mate!
Great video!! Have you tried "Fishman TriplePlay".I tried the Jam Origin and its not bad but not 100% satisfied with it.I even tried one of those gimicy (non guitar, kinda toy looking) you rock midi guitars and that was worse for me.So Iam between the Fishman and Jam Origins for my budget, would love to hear your advice or review if you have plans for future to do a review of fishman.Cheers.keep up the good work,really helpful stuff.
Thanks very much Aj, I'm glad it was useful! I have not tried the Fishman myself but I would like to give it a go at some point, I'm sure there's something out there that can outperform my old Axon!
Useful comparison. I was just thinkin, what about IF you get a breakout box to get the audio signal from each string and feed that into 6 separate DAW channels each using Jam Origin... ? Would that work better ?
Great review. Nice to see each playing element considered side by side. For me, new to midi and relatively new to guitar, MG2 stood out because it seemed one of the low costs options (if you don’t count the £££ ipad!) I’m happy with it up to now and it’s good to see other midi options like the Axon. Thanks for creating and sharing. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Carl!
Great review! Midi guitar is a dark art..
'Tis indeed Mr Holmes!
Great side by side comparison!!! What is the (are) the physical devices used with the Jam Origin? Did you have the 1/4" audio going into a audio interface? and then into a DAW?
Thanks!......Yes, the 1/4 inch went into a DI box > Audio Interface > Logic X
Great demo/comparison does the Jam Origin not have standard default patches based on broad styles of playing
Cheers Brian. Not that I remember, just a few settings you can tune in. I'd recommend downloading the free trial though!
Great 👍 video thanks 🙏
Thanks man
I've been using Jam for a while now, and it is pretty good, I've found that it can depend too on the midi output software, some software is better than others at responsive tracking. I still get odd notes played because I touch an unwanted string but I guess thats something you have to learn. One thing I'm still tryimg to find out is the expression notes, can you use Jam to send an expression, cos I'm using sax at the moment and it would be great to have this work. Thanks for the demo. I love your studio sound soakers, orange and green and red, I want to be that let go with my colours but I'm too safe lol. Cheers
I've just figured out how to send an expression from jam midi guitar 2 to my saxaphone in kontakt. In Jam, in midi fx, you can set an auto mod wheel and there is a dial where you can set the cc its going to send to. And its worked ok. Cheers
Thanks John! Yeah it takes a while to get used to it. Usually the expression gets sent with all the other MIDI data.
I'm ok at piano but have much more training in guitar so I love my midi guitar. Though I'll still play piano once in a while
Here's the full blog post for this review: www.mymixmaster.co.uk/blog/midi-guitar-hardware-or-software/ Here's some music I've made using MIDI guitar:
THING - open.spotify.com/artist/06Da1K5WmXJla9tmspzx8m
LAPIS LAZULI - open.spotify.com/artist/5xl2nulTJG6UH4fhZIUlao
You should try tweaking the velocity range for Jam Origin to ignore some of those accidental notes. I find it works pretty well but I am playing much slower stuff :)
Thanks Alex. I tried the full range of the velocity range and the gate as well as the input gain for my sound card. Unfortunately there's no way of setting that threshold where it needs to be bizarrely!
good noodleing !
Do you recomend Godin Multitac?
I've owned all of 13 pin mini guitar devices. There is nothing like dedicated hardware. However fact you can use a standard quarter inch cable and get good enough for use in a gig is the game changer for me dollar-for-dollar Hardware Route versus software with paid plug-ins roughly the same. For me I've sold my midi gear, hoping this is a workable approach to add it back into my rig
Do you think Midi Guitar 2 can handle something like playing bass guitar parts on a guitar? I've been playing Latin Jazz and I would love to add bass guitar parts to the backing percussion tracks without buying a Squier bass. Also do you think it would work well with a hollow body with humbuckers?
Hi mate, Yes it will work well on bass as it's mainly monophonic. Depending on your style you may want to reduce the sensitivity of the MG2 so it 'feels' more like a bass guitar. I see no reason why a hollow body will cause any issues but it might be good to see if the neck or bridge pup gives you the response you're after. You should try playing some percussion in as MIDI with it too, you can get surprising results.
Do you think fingerstyle, when done well, would be more responsive/accurate to the intent of the player for midi guitars? After seeing Ichika Nito play one fingerstyle (though he can make anything sound good and was playing on one with plastic-like strings) as well as the design of the "Artiphon INSTRUMENT 1," I think that midi guitar may lend itself better to that method of play. This is mostly conjecture, but it may be something worth exploring for those who are very invested in midi guitars
Also the video was great!
Thanks, It's hard to say if it would work better or not as I've never tried it to any extent. I think you'd need a system that was detecting the strings separately (so hardware). There is a fingerstyle mode on the Axon. I think generally, the cleaner your playing, the better results you would get wether it's fingerstyle or pick.
I have an Axon MKii. You have to play differently with a synth guitar: strumming is not really the way to do it. I had all synths from roland: GR1 GR30, GR33. The only one I never owned is the GR55. I can say that the only thing superior to an Axon would be a Ztar which has real on/off switches. The Axon triggers almost perfectly and the zone mappings + string splits is amazing. It was 20 years ahead of its time. Still is.
Agreed yes, it's a shame they went bust when they did. I'd like to try the Ztar by the sounds of it!
@@mymixmaster1614 I tried one once few years ago. Think of it as a keyboard for a guitar player. You can play two handed with the mini keys, but I have to say at this point, it is almost better to learn to play a keyboard. I suggested to Harvey Starr to combine a Ztar neck with a small keyboard for the right hand. Left hand plays chords and right hand the melody. It could be done if you sit and play the Ztar with a keyboard in front of you. In conclusion, I say that the Axon is still the top for guitar synth as it triggers flawlessly, and with the simple computer interface, a breeze to program.
I have a gk3 divided piezo pickup into a gr-55 which is used as a midi controller you can isolate/dial down
the gr sounds or not and as a controller it will trigger any vst instrument(s) or like device s..
there are some very nice guitar tones to be had inside the gr-55 only problem I've found
is you can't adjust the volume directly from the gk3 to the vst or learn midi command
so I use my keyboard and train it to learn synth volume commands.
i end up not using the guitar synth as such usually i make a synth loop or layer
and jam a bass line off pan centre on an adjacent track within the foundation looper.(1)
with guitar on a separate looper device(2) the way I have my setup is easy and complex
and mistake do occur now and then but things can be done with a bit of planning ahead
of time it's just remembering where you want things to be in a jam temporary drop in noise
scapes that can be erased or dub'd over within the sound structure.
the trick is to know when it need nothing more I might the record it as a base layer into cakewalk
or rip it to mp3 or whatever most times I'm just happy to switch of the hardware
not even bothered to save anything some is crap and some is brilliant lo-fi fractal landscape sounds
I dial up a fractal here on the tube and listen as my noise blends with the AI images'.
PS
fuckin hate auto correct keeps changing words as I try think this damn letter out
keeps changing my metre of speech and ideas things that are fleetingly important
I forget to say as I realise the machine has altered a word... that intended is lost
how or is it now not to become.
gk3 - it's no piezo... it's 6 x humbuckers... divided piezo pickup in Godin (bridge)
hi. nice review . nobody will answer this question for me . using either axon or jam origin, can i change the attack decay sustain release on the actual guitar audio signal . id like to mix the guitar audio signal with a slow pad but id like the audio signal to match the attack etc of the synth
The guitar audio signal is not MIDI, so no. EHX have some great boxes to do that, though.
My Mix Master - Just stunned you're having these problems. Not that Sound on Sound must be regarded as a 'bible,' of audio but they seem honest.
Paul White in review, wrote: I find it difficult to overstate what the designers of this software have achieved. Had I not tried it for myself, I would simply not have believed it possible! As a guitar player, I think MIDI Guitar 2 is the most significant piece of software that I have come across next to my DAW of choice, and I use it now on virtually every session where I need to control virtual instruments.
He encountered few/none of the problems you're encountering. UNLESS you're using the standalone version which is known to be inferior to the DAW version.
I'm blown away - maybe you got a dodgy copy?
going by somebody else's review is never a smart way to look at things mate
having tried it myself, i had exactly the same experience shown in this video. midi guitar accuracy is all a scam
Axon just sounds sharper, more defined. Seems to track way better. The Axon actually stunned me with how well it tracked, I simply must get my hands on one! Shame they only turn up on eBay once every 6 years lol excellent video mate!
I agree! Did I mention I am biased though? ;)
HELLO, I'VE BEEN LOOKING ON THE INTERNET BUT NO ONE HAS PRESENTED THE COLORS OF THE AXONA 100-2 GUITARS. Maybe you could record a demo with just guitars! Regards.
With a solid computer, MG2 (and they’re not done yet!) is as close to perfect as there is - it’s basically limitless possibilities once you’re working with MIDI on a PC compared to a standalone hardware unit.
If latency is a problem for you, but you feel your hardware is better, I’d still consider using it WITH MG2 (MIDI in instead of the audio interface path that most MG users take) just so you can explore those limitless options of sound and triggering capabilities of the software. There’s some incredibly talented, intelligent individuals who have really pushed the limits of MG2 and yet there’s still a lot that hasn’t been tried or explored! It’s worth it
Would this work with a acoustic guitar on a peizo pickup or does it only work with electric guitar pickup?
Good question - I would think it would work on a piezo but I don't know for sure, the trial is free so download and try it!
Thanks! What is the right rig for live midi performance ?
Cheers Ron, I have been using the Axon Ax 100 for years live so would recommend that. There's the old Roland stuff which is meant to be good, especially the high end models. Also now there are a few new ones about like the Jamstik which would be interesting to test. If I were you I'd get the free demo of this plugin and see how you get on first.
I have yet to find anything that beats the feel of the Axon. Such a shame they ceased to be, so there are no software updates to allow it to be controlled from Windoze.
Can you record something in stereo and convert it to midi using these devices?
You can record something in mono and then convert to MIDI but not stereo as it's designed for guitar :)
What version of Jam Origin? As time passes, newer updates to it could make a difference...
Hi, It was the one available at time of upload, I will have a look :)
Great video. This program is over 150 $ cdn
I have a Yamaha G50 and G1D pickup. I tried Jamorigin a while back and still found that the G50 was better especially dynamics but the G5O is still quite poot in terms of triggering wrong notes. The pickup now has problems with some strings going dead but it's basically the same as a Roland GK pickup. The Yamaha pickup is not made anymore but they are interchangable. I never used the system much but now I'm determined to try to get MIDI guitar working up to usable standard. I think I'm going to buy a cheap guitar and dedicate it to MIDI probably with a Roland kit to build in. A Yamaha Pacifica would probably be a good candidate guitar. Mayve higher string action and I read that flatwound strings work better. If the G50 doesn't cut it I might try a Roland GI-20. I don't want to spend too much money in case it doesn't work that well and to be honest none of them seem to be that great.
You might be able to repair that pickup - it's probably a dry solder joint or two if you open it up. Alternatively try a new cable, I have gone through a few over the years - they start glitching then eventually a string or two stops working.
@@mymixmaster1614 I've had the pickup apart to try to find the bad connection or maybe dodgy wire but it's intermittant and hard to track down. Unfortunately the build quality of the Yamaha and Roland pickups is quite poor. Also, the main 13 pin cable supplied by Yamaha was very poor quality and the contacts all corroded. You can find bettter quality third party cables on ebay. Considering how much I originally paid for the G50, none of this is very impressive. However, options seem much cheaper now. For example, pickups from Roland are a lot cheaper. The kits to build ihto a guitar are way cheaper than they used to be.
I tested everything, from Roland to triple play etcetera. nothing convinced me. If you have an iPad there are a number of apps, control surfaces, synths, AUV3, which allow better precision by playing directly on the screen.
if someone on earth tried to use it with for actually record a vsti Guitar, with fast strumming, fast attack?? You know, recording a progression chords like we usually do as a guitar player...
use the gate in midi guitar to avoid it to retrigger sound when you release the strings, i think the settings of the roland midi pickup is done more correctly than what you have in midi guitar, just fix it
Thanks Falikou, I did set that gate plus velocity and sound card input gain. There was no way to set the threshold to the right area unfortunately.
Turn your noise gate up!
you are cool, like
Axon ax100 vs FishmanTPConnect - who win?
win Andras Szalay (from pandamidi)
Can you use your Axon with your axe off? Oh, I crack myself up (if no-one else). ;)
Best string for use the axon?
I can't say I've tried many. I use Ernie Ball 10s but it can be a shade more reliable with 11s. I use 10s as I prefer the feel/sound for electric guitar and I play both in a live set.
@@mymixmaster1614 for me chrome
@@mymixmaster1614 more fat are the strings and larger tension so axon works better. Try to use chrome. Less harmonics and flatwound works better
@@aniakurasiak7643 I might try them but for me it would depend on how they sound for the guitar sound as I play 50% guitar too :)
@@mymixmaster1614 more mellow but more high tension so take care about your guitar. Anyway, with axon and chrome flatwound ican play bass guitar and full Metallica album without any error
I had an axon with a Godin midi guitar. Like an idiot i traded at a music go round store. I simply didn't know what i had. Stupid!!!!!! Sure do miss that setup now.
No updates in years on midi guitar 2, suspicious to me...
Not fair. Obviously, you haven't changed the gate settings in the software. Which is very simple to do.
Of course, paying a fortune for this device, you're going to want it to sound better than the plugin.
Cheers Gabriel: I did actually set the gate in the plugin and audio interface and tried various settings and the results you can hear are the best I could get from it unfortunately. I did find that very strange and I spent a good while making sure I wasn't missing anything so I'm not sure why that is. Any thoughts on those M7 intervals that were jumping around all over the place?
I have been playing the Axon for a long while so I have modified my playing to accommodate it but I assure you I would rather move on to something better and a lighter to gig with if I can find it :)
What I dont understand is why the Axon is way better in this video, but in the video on youtube
"Jam Origin’s Jam Origin’s Midi Guitar 2 on tour with ELP Legacy, Yes"
Jam Origin seems flawless ??? I'm confused.
The Jam really sounds bad in this video.
polyTracking always better then mono
People who found this video...I'll save you some time; a guitar with Midi out + the Roland VG99 is still KING, even over AxeFXII and the JamStudio software. No software will EVER be able to meet this due to the laws of physics! It's just not possible no matter how good a software programmer you are. Godin Multiac or Carvin NS1 (or if you've got the $$$ then the Expressiv Midi Guitar Pro 2 from Rob O'Reilly) if you want the best setup.
If your pockets are deep enough…
@@keithgardner8000 A used Godin is $500-800, a used VG99 is about $500 so yeah, to get into synth you'll have to spend a little. You'll never get the real sound. You get what you pay for.
GK-5 + GM-800 you tested? (w/o DiN 13 pin)
@@sepic5407 Half of the magic is in the string tracking on a nylon through the Graphtec hexaphonic pickup. For those of us with bigger hands, no electric guitar will ever be good due to the tiny nut width. Need 1.75" minimum.
Jesus nuddling the guitar …;-)) I RALLY like the preview √√
Bless you my son :)
Hardware for the win, inevitable subscription services get out of here.
*guthrie is that you ?*
What about the Jamstik?
Ah I don't have one of those I'm afraid!
@@mymixmaster1614 Good Video, thanks
@@xpectromo Thanks buddy :)
JAM ORIGIN MIDI GUITAR 2 AND MIDI BASS 2. Use your own guitar without modification. I had a Jamstik. ICK build quality, ick tracking. Use a plastic guitar? Me? HAHAHAHA
Honestly why would I ever learn piano after this?? Lmao
Hammer Ons and Pull Offs don't work on a midi synth/piano setting because you can't play those on a real piano ... it's about clean velocity rather than trying to play like a normal guitar ... the hammer ons/pull offs on the Jam Origin sounded awful, it doesn't translate like a guitar through a tube amp at all ... the AXON AX100 is superb!!
I agree, the AXON is great!! Pulls/hammers don't work on any setting to any degree on my one though, even on guitar patches. I think that's because the AXON detects notes using the pick transient. Personally though I do enjoy the way MIDI guitar can stretch the usual limits an instrument may have and so like having the option of pulls/hammers when playing a synth sound. If I was looking for a tube amp sound, I would use a tube amp ;)
@@mymixmaster1614 I have TWO AXONs, but only use one ... maybe I should stick one on ebay so that another muso can enjoy using this awesome device ... or maybe I should jut keep it ... decisions decisions
@@MusoManUK haha I have 2 also! Was scared of it breaking and loosing all my patches. I managed to get one for £150 like new still in box a few years back with a Roland GK3 pup! The original was about £500 inc pup back in 2004 I think :)
@@mymixmaster1614 Maybe won't help you but perhaps someone else (from Axon FAQ):
I hear the right note when I pick a string, but hammer-on, pull-off and bending does not work.
Answer 10:
Possible problem: the pitchbend settings of the AXON and the external device may not match, or quantize is enabled.
· Check whether the pitchbend range settings of the external MIDI device match those of the AXON (GLOBAL MODE).
· Ensure that the QUANTIZE value in the preset split (PRESET MODE) is set to AUTO or OFF.