Zen 4 and Linux with the New AM5 Hardware
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- čas přidán 25. 09. 2022
- Ryzen 9 5900X openbenchmarking.org/result/2...
Ryzen 7 5800X3D openbenchmarking.org/result/2...
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Intro and Outro Music: "Earth Bound" by Slynk
Other Music: "Lively" & "FollowHer" by Zeeky Beats - Věda a technologie
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Hey friends, We have added the benchmarks to our description! Sorry for the delay!! ~ Editor Autumn
Now I just hope you could give us a review of arc alchemist.
Thanks much Autumn!
@@lua-nya its uhh not going well...
Just a simple question, was there a problem running the benchmarks that don't have results in the result file? It's clear that through the video there were many graphs without Ryzen 7000 chips. And there were missing entries in the openbenchmarking results for 7000 series compared to the older CPU:s.
Who's your brother, Winter?
I absolutely appreciate your videos. You go into things that nobody else ever talks about. We are glad to have you.
+1
Who is "we"? Don't talk for somebody else please
@@DennisDinges And not to say you disagree with his statement, but yes, no one asked for plastic positivity as if Wendel and Co are weak-willed individuals who need to feel needed in order to make videos...all he needs to see is the likes to dislikes for that.
you're a bot. and 85 other bots liked your comment.
Yessir agreed
10:00 "Thunderbolt has to be qualified by Intel."
Sitting here with an Asus ProArt AM4 motherboard with dual thunderbolt (in advertising and on the box), it tickles me to know that there exists an Intel employee who goes through all the checklist for AMD motherboards in the Intel labs.
And then Thunderbolt support is still often super flaky, even though there's already vendor lock-in going on with those stupid MB headers you need to connect to if you want a Thunderbolt add-in card :/
I wonder if USB4 is going to be any better...
@@Blacklands Gigabyte X670 Aorus Elite AX has a "THB_U4" header for "add-in card connector", so it appears USB4 won't be any better for my board.
@@Blacklands nope , I think usb 4/5 is out already .
I saw a video , of thunderbolt support through the aforementioned usb 4/5 , and while its amazing that its even possible , its very rare that you get the proper hardware even if its properly rated .
@@AvgDan Great...
If there was a standard for the headers so you can use add-in cards interchangeably across manufacturers, then fine. But the current state of things sucks.
You don't only cover a more advanced Linux niche that is disregarded by a lot of CZcams channels, but you also make it entretaining and informative. I thank you. (even if you talk a lot about hardware I can only dream off. I am glad to actually know what is going on around, wouldn't change it a bit).
you just think he sounds as if he knows what the fuck he's talking about because he has seen the test output before and can read the headlines. who is disregarding the phoronix test suite on youtube? which channels? or did you just invent a problem that's not really there?
Thanks for talking about capping the power limit. I can image a lot of people are concerned about the extreme TDP. Would be super interesting to see the performance comparison with 65W Intel 13gen CPUs when they come out (with AMD is also capped at ~65W), since this is the product that explicitly doesn't exist in AMD's lineup. Also, I remember from one of your older videos about "unofficial" ECC support on AMD platform, that even if ECC memory is technically working with the MB, "real" error correction actually may not happen. Can we be confident ECC does fully work on these ZEN4 motherboards?
there is no confidence that ECC works properly even in servers. It's a black box doing black box things.
The most you get is the EDAC subsystem in Linux that collects reported errors from the black box, and then you can OC the RAM until you start seeing ECC errors flooding the system log. Or covering some data pins with tape and running some memory benchmarks from a live CD
I can second that call for performance at lower targets research being interesting - I found on my old 2 cpu workstation nothing could get it down in draw meaningfully and keep it stable (went the other way pretty well though), where playing with recent AMD (mostly on the steamdeck, but also the cheap zen2 desktop I had to get to replace that workstation when it died) the performance and stability when cranked way way down is remarkable, drop anything up to about 30% of rated draw and find a barely perceptible difference in performance (task dependent), and can go way way lower stably it seems - keep meaning to write a script that triggers should the power ever go so the computer is running on the UPS to drop targets on the fly and get me enough uptime to react myself rather selectively before the automatic safe shutdown...
105W mode is where it's at. Only 10% slower in Cinebench R23 at approximately half the real world power draw.
Didn't AMD change their ECC policy to require validation for a motherboard to have an ECC option? That way if a consumer board wants to have ECC, they can advertise it and it's known to work, and there is no unofficial ECC. All their CPUs still support it in silicon, but this should eliminate the grey area.
So glad you're doing Linux based coverage with Zen 4. Definitely time to build a new PC for me
I’d recommend waiting for the rumored 7000X3D SKUs in Q1 2023, my gut says it would be similar to buying an MSRP 3090 TI back in June.
@@abavariannormiepleb9470 yeah I think that's a smart idea. It's easy to get caught up in the hype and not think objectively about the best move
are you sure? I have a feeling AMD is just beginning to show us what they can do with 5nm and below.
what the fuck is this comment section? what else would he be covering right now? raspberry PI ARM? what makes you so glad about him covering zen 4 exactly?
I swear... i'm raging at bots
Just bought a 7950x 64gb ddr5 6000, Linux here I come
I really hope they come out with a board that splits that PCIe Gen 5 into more Gen 4/Gen 3 lanes. With threadripper completely dead at this point, this would be a fantastic alternative.
Thanks for your input, like many others took advantage of dropping prices on older items on the marketplace, but still interested in finding out what the newer products have to offer and compare!
The biggest win as I see it for home server/build server use is the onboard graphics freeing up a PCI-e slot for other things. That said hoping to grab a cheap 5950X for now...
With power consumption higher than Threadripper, it’s not ideal
@@aliancemd You can have a 7950X in a SFF case and set to 105 or 65 watts and it does great (better than Alderlake and Zen 3). Check out PCWorld's Eco mode testing and Wendell should have a video talking about it and/or undervolting with Curve Optimizer on the main Level1 channel.
Broadwell Xeons are still decent imo.
I am interested in AMD claims (reported by LTT) for Ryzen 7600X --- outperforming the 12900K in gaming. Since LTT is unlikely to cover gaming on Linux, will *L1L* compare _Linux gaming_ on both the 12900K and Ryzen 7600X? That is, all else being (relatively) equal[1]?
I am interested, also, in seeing how each does with Windows running in a PROXMOX (or headless, qemu KVM) VM. Ideally, this would include gaming on Windows --- even if only in synthetic tests.
[1] Current AMD Radeon discreet graphics, preferred; RX (6800|6900) XT.
Yes, I would also be interested in that. However, having built and used a couple of CPU/GPU combinations, I did not find that much difference between AMD and Intel when gaming on Linux. On the other hand, if you compare AMD vs NVIDIA GPUs there can be huge differences. So I'm more excited to see the upcoming RX 7000 vs GeForce 40 battle 🙂
@@kasimirdenhertog3516 - I feel the same way about the GPU situation. I only lean toward AMD graphics for Linux compatibility. But, I am hopeful that NVIDIA is about to switch to (mostly) open-source drivers; perhaps just a BLOB or two for something like DLSS.
*Coreteks* released a video on the 7600X which answered most of my questions. You might want to watch it. I always suspected that he is an AMD fanboy --- his review and recommendations surprised me. Spoiler: tuned Intel 12000 series are the better value, with a caveat --- 5800X3D is _the best_ value (for gaming and productivity).
But, only a channel like *Level1Linux* will answer my Linux and virtualization questions, in depth. So, I am hopeful that Wendell is on the case. Are Ryzen 7000 CPUs, AM5 motherboards, DDR5 RAM, and new I/O _worth the squeeze?_
I am still doing my thing on Intel 8th-gen (quad-core) mobile hardware. It's time to get a proper workstation and (potential) gaming platform. Currently, I game almost entirely on PS3 and PS4. And my most recent workstation is an IBM IntelliStation M-Pro Dual-Xeon... from 2002. Dormant, since 2012. 🙂
@@M0rn1n6St4r NVIDIA on Linux has come a long way the past few years. It depends on what games you play, but the fact you can now use DLSS and RTX on Linux, is awesome. By comparison, ray tracing for AMD on Linux is still in pretty experimental stages and there's no DLSS, just FSR, which isn't as nice. So when I spin up something like Cyberpunk 2077, I prefer my RTX 3060 ti over my RX 6900 XT.
As for Ryzen 7000: so far, I'm not convinced yet by the reviews. Indeed the 5800X3D is a thorn in AMD's own side; it makes you think it might be better to hold out for something like the 7800X3D.
I think the closest the a "Workstation" motherboard would be the ASUS X670E ProArt. 10GbE & 2.5GbE as well as "Thunderbolt" via USB4 and DisplayPort into the motherboard to feed back out over the USB4 header.
Thanks for this, looking to build a new machine for Xmas. This was super helpful.
Great content!!! Thnx for all the time and effort!
You can BUY DDR5 64GB DIMMs right now, for an incredible amount of money.
What I don't understand is why X670 boards can't support 256GB, because DDR5 supports 64GB DIMMs.
Market segmentation. They want the big-memory footprint types to move up to Threadripper Pro. (Still steamed about apparent bail on Zen3 TRX4 boards.)
Great stuff. Thanks L1 team
Wow! Thank you WendeL and the team at Level1
No 10Gbe on such a main board? I have a 1950 system and waited for m-atx main boards with integrated 10Gbe . Since the new NV graphics cards are that big, I will go for atx, but when not even the most luxury main boards have integrated 10 Gbe it's a mess. The reason for integrated 10Gbe is to be able to avoid big tower cases. The rad limitation with 2x 360mm is mostly 45mm. Mounting a 2nd PCIE card, even a little one can be a challenge.
What I'd love to have you test is if the Ryzen iGPU can be passed through to a virtual machine. I can only assume Intel intentionally blocks this functionality because despite all my efforts on 12th gen I haven't been able to get a VM to boot with the iGPU passed through to it. Being able to do a dual-GPU mITX system, even if the secondary GPU is so highly limited, would be an enormous selling point for me.
Of course best would be just being allowed SR-I/OV on non-datacentre graphics cards, but not even AMD would ever be so good to us.
Great content, wonderful chat thanks very much :)
Thanks for the review
Been wondering about it Linux performance thanks! I'm gonna be upgrading to Zen 4 and using Pop OS when I get the hardware. :)
Thanks for the video, I liked it :) I don't get to see much linux content so it's nice whenever you upload here. I would love a motherboard review for linux sometime if you could do that?
love the intro!
Noticing that you haven't talked about the upcoming V-Cache products in either video. Can you think of some server use-cases where the highly binned 7950x3D and it's monstrous L3 come in handy? I'm thinking the platform/prices might stable out by then, and the 3D stacking technology should be improved, possibly allowing higher clocks
I loved the Hank Hill homage at the beginning...
Wow.. incredibly good info in this video. I’m interested in the new platform but not at ridiculous prices, both in regards to upfront cost and running cost.
Look forward to seeing the B type motherboard reviews, and the day you can recommend 128GB ram
... and you. Good job too. Thank you!!!
great video u got me pretty hyped, my objective for future will try a am5 7900 with some beefed kernel to become faster (6.2 with its new scheduler maybe), maybe with old cheap amd gpu and a rtx or 3090 for a windows vm passtrough.
Good to see some linux test for the new ryzen. I took the 7900x and the asrock steel legend for my new linux dev workstation and i'm quite impatient to have all the pieces to test the upgrade. I'm running shit tons of docker containers on my dev pc because i work with microservices. I hope it will improve virtualized workloads perfs
I gotta say, I really love the intro music for this. It's off-putting when I hear it on other videos, it makes me think Wendell is about to tickle my brainpiece.
Goddamn I like that song
Great Scott!
Speaking of motherboards I'd love to see you review for Zen 4 on Linux: The ASUS ProArt X670E WiFi
I've had a wonderful time with mine and I'd love to hear your thoughts.
Best thing about the new platform is the prices on the previous stuff. Just ordered a 5600X for less than 200,- Euros (incl. tax and shipping). Still have almost everything else here, now just waiting for the Radeon launch to make a decision if I'll go with 7000 series or a cheap and already perfectly working 6000 series card. The 6700 non XT looks interesting.
I managed to get a 6800 XT for about 400$ by pitching a tent and camping on eBay for a couple of weeks. I'm very happy with my purchase
@@sonicfan2651 I'm guessing at this point it is smooth sailing with the 6000 series on linux? How is hardware video acceleration working? Anything unsupported?
@@noenken I have a 6700xt and I love it. Everything perfect so far, Vulkan translation is magic. Using 4 displays, 3 at 1080@60 and 1 at 1440@144, the downside is no variable refresh, but I'm always pushing near the full 144 anyway...
I opted for more cores and a bit less GPU. 5700X/RT6600 non-XT. What little gaming I do is 1080p/60 on a TV, and the 6600 handles that just fine. I may grab a used 6750XT in the upcoming upgrade selloff; depends on pricing.
@@wyattarich You mean because of the multimonitor setup, right? Yeah, I plan to run this machine on a single monitor. I do have a secondary system right next to it, that is mostly for photo editing. So if I just need a second screen for something, that's not a problem. But otherwise Freesync should be fine by now, right?
Thank you, Wendell! 🇺🇸 😎👍☕
I’d love to see a 7700x set to below 45 watts with ecc memory run through some of these benchmarks. Might be my next Truenas system if it can do 45 watts (preferably less if possible)
Thanks!
8:40 Could you please go more in depth about how to set up a plx bridge and what hardware / software combination is required?
Great video as always but I wasn't able to find much info on that (maybe i'm just not searching for the right things - I don't know.)
14:35 The encoding lists it as an x264 benchmark, so it's not that FFmpeg can't use the hardware acceleration, it's just that the test is strictly using a software encoder (H.264 is the codec, x264 is an encoder)
19:13 to 19:40 that's cool..I'll under under volt and under clock the 7600x a bit to where it never goes past 4.7ghz or somewhere in that range.
hahaha... 12:56 literally had double up with laughter. "math go fast now"
13:25 Steve at _Hardware Unboxed_ did just that with the 7600X. Based on what he said, it worked on all the Zen 4 parts he had. So four sticks of DDR5-6000 should definitely be possible for everyone (he didn't get four golden sample IMC's).
Pretty sure he was talking about 4 dimms of ECC memory
@@mitlanderson Don't really think that would change the equation much. But he's no doubt going to test it at some point, so I guess we'll see.
Thank you
Now this is what I was waiting for!
Imagine running gentoo on this thing with all the opimizations and native instructions turned on (like avx512). And then when they release the 3D version of it. Must be eyewatering.
My thoughts exactly, I'm absolutely with you on that. Can't wait to get the compiling going and see what this platform can do once optimized.
Glad you covered the tdp lowering stuff. Good job AMD / Linux devs. AM4 has everything I need so i'll be skipping this GEN failing some mobile variant with suped up iGPU
Definitely interested in upgrading my X570-based proxmox home server to X670 at some point, but i'm struggling to see if it is worth it.
One thing that does seem attractive is being able to use the iGPU as the host GPU instead of occupying a PCIe slot with a dedicated host GPU.
I'm also wondering if having PCIe 3.0 devices in the loop (like an HBA card) forces all the PCIe slots to run at 3.0, or if I can mix and match PCIe3/4/5 devices with no issues.
I’ve had a Gen4 x16 slot bifurcated to x8/x4/x4 on X570 with Gen4, Gen3, and Gen2 devices slotted in, all running at the correct speeds. So obviously there’s no guarantee that any given AM5 board will work the same, but I think the odds are pretty good.
I am also interested in the iGPU being able to handle host video 🤔
You can run proxmox without the dedicated host gpu. I followed a guide which involved blocking the drivers from loading and it worked. 5950x, x570 aorus elite, GTX 1080 passed through. no second gpu yet though I want one so I can run windows and Linux at the same time
Any chance you’d consider doing some WSL related content on this channel?
Idk why but this guy has a relaxing radio worthy voice lmao
If someone does put a PLX bridge on a motherboard to give a usable number of PCIe lanes it would be a great upgrade to the sadly-missing Threadripper enthusiast segment. (I know they slapped the name on overclocked epyc chips, but then they priced it accordingly).
Hey look, this channel is not dead
I, for the record, am watching this in September - by about 2 hours.
The new higher power limits not only waste energy during operation, they also increase motherboard cost. Anything over an 8 phase VRM is ridiculous for non-overclockers.
My 5900X runs on a B550 motherboard with curve optimizer at -30 and a reduced the PBO boost by 150MHz for stability. Not much slower, but more efficient. In summer I limit TDP as well, not because of CPU temperatures, but because my room temperature already hits 30C.
Балдёжный видос, респект мужику.
@Level1Linux Would love to know what type of physical PLX card Wendel used to get more pci-e g3 lanes, does anyone know?
What product were you using as a PLX bridge? The old Fusion-IO thingy or an HBA like the Delock 90504?
old fusion io thingie
I was hoping to get one of these when I saw the main channel one. Thanks for the Hank Hill Joke
Yes, x264 is software, ffmpeg should easily support AMDs AMF or VAAPI should also work, but I don't think phoronix has a VAAPI test and you have to manually enable it. Software increases might be due to AVX512 among other things.
I'm curious if you could switch between AMD onboard graphcis and a dedicated NVIDIA GPU at will, a la prime somehow?
I do have a Threadripper 1920X for my NAS / Stuff setup now, would a Ryzen 5 7600X save me some power? I’m interested in the Zen 4 CPUs because the seem to have better PCIe lane allocation than the Intel 13th-gen. And more of them (that’s why i had the Threadripper in the first place).
You're damn right I'm watching this in the future.
Asus Pro art. with 128gb ram. With 2 M.2 in raid 0. will be very interisting for VFX production
Wendel always mentions Optane. RIP never forget, press F. ;(
This platform is a beast!
I'm waiting for 13th gen to drop, to see which will be better for "budget" workstation build.
so is zen 4 really all that different than zen 3? or is it more of a simple die shrink? if so I would wait and expect for a core count increases and maybe more significant improvements in the next generation.
The power efficiency is insane. Running a chromium compile as a test, all-cores, at 150W at the wall (around an 80W TDP equivalent), the 5900X winds up doing around 3.9GHz all-cores while the 7900X winds up doing 4.7GHz all-cores. The 7900X compiles chromium 50%+ faster at the same wattage, and the difference for an all-cores workload between 132W and 230W at the wall is only 10% in performance. That's insane. It also means we can just use tower coolers (which can dissipate around 230W on AM5 in my tests. If the power budget is set to something reasonable, like 150W to 175W, the core temps also stay very reasonable and the whole system runs efficient, fast, and quiet.
The 7900X runs faster clocks at 130W than the 5900X does at 230W (all cores compile workload). 4.7GHz vs 4.4GHz). How crazy is that?
With these new cpus it just doesn't make sense to run them unbounded... its a huge waste of power to do that. Setting a power cap is the way to go.
I was surprised about the stability too. I didn't do any voltage offsets... basically just set the TDP (aka TDP/PPT/etc...) parameters in the Overclocking menu and that's it. 32GB x 2 of DDR5, so the memory wasn't overclocked either (we need at least 64GB for these bulk compiles so its dual-ranked anyhow). Also didn't particularly set ECO mode for downclocking the chipset, fabric, and other elements since there's no point doing that if one is maxing out the workload. There's no idle time to downclock in, anyway. And no voltage offsets either... we can't afford any corrupt output. Just TDP (TDP, PPT, etc) settings.
-Matt
Updated to x670 crosshair-hero & 7950x .. I run ubuntu 22.04 + regolith, my current stack is rust/c(clang)/golang and heavy on containers ... no show stoppers so far and performance is as expected (just some quitks with qemu cross compiling to arm64, but our primary systems are x86) ... Initial memory training was painfully long (10-15min), however I did go with non-qvl memory (IE: gskill, 2 x 32gb 6000mt XMP) ... subsequent boots have been quick after training and DOCP is working fine with the XMP kit at 6000mt , plus all my thunderbolt drives are working A-OK with the maple ridge chipset
Which Ryzen Master are you using? Mine keeps crashing when trying to apply to reboot.
17:15 "keep the n-queen 0.2 sec non-regression in mind". gotcha! that't going to be the first thing on my mind when I wake up tomorrow.
Yup- have a 2920X Threadripper on a gigabyte Designare MB that I loath getting rid of. But I am ready to try an AM5 based system. I also like the TRx50 based Threadripper. They are over a year old as I write this so plenty of maturation.
what about the undervolting?
I hope you will test IOMMU and GPU passtrough. As far as i am reading, people have trouble. I hope it can be fixed.
Patiently waiting for that DDR5 video...
What I would give for some DDR5 UDIMMs with ECC and running at 6000Mhz CL30.
did you hit an issue with 6% to 9% hdd ssd use nvme use for linux install meaning 60gb for 10gb of files?
Does the motherboard Steel Legend X670 report double errors?
I have one ASRock B550M Pro and the bios does not have any configuration to enable ECC error injection, does someone knows if it detects double error ?
Loaded linux mint on my msi x670 with a 7900x cpu and 64gb 6000 ddr5 with Samsung 990. Installed in minutes holy shit
It sounds like your suggesting an all AMD system as the best hardware to run Linux - right?
Have you tried Intel - Nvidia or Intel - Radeon as combos to do the same?
Any news about Threadripper 7000? (I do need the PCIe lanes)
Why are the Ryzen cpu boxes upside down? Are they in distress?
Can you look at the ASUS X670 ProArt motherboard?
Sell can also mean advocate for
HUB got 2DPC running at 6000 with a 7600X!
How does looking glass work with the Integrated graphics?
Really wanna see looking glas with that igpu. Sinced it's ddr5.
Where are the intel 12 series chips? All you have is the intel 10 series? Also gamers nexus shows about 250 watts on the 7950x, which is actually higher than the 12900k. 7950x does have more cores though.
overclocking ECC next?
I have three rigs, all ITX (B550I AORUS PRO AX) one R5 3600 and the other two R5 5600. One Pop!OS, one Mint the other Windows 11. I prefer Linux. Can't wait to build an AM5 rig.
6:07 yeah AMD decided that the CPUs will boost until they hit either the power limits or the thermal limits, which for most people the thermal limit will hit first so... 95 degrees is the new normal.
Wendell plz measure input latency and total lag under different scenarios. Lag is creeping on expensive workstations and laptops from all angles. The computing experience in total is getting bad. Plz find the culprits.
hm. the kernel and llvm compilation graphs don't feature ryzen 7xxx cpus...
So Which boards really support EEC ? Asrock ?
Does not all AM5 boards support ECC? If not how can I find out which one do?
Is GPU passthrough even necessary nowadays since steam proton is a thing. I've been using steam proton for gaming on my laptop and im set on converting my system to full linux. Gaming on linux is just soo good now.
Its tolerable, not great. Even native Linux games have issues that you won't ever see on Windows.
Still waiting for that IOMMU video, Wendell!
Maybe I'm an idiot, but where can I find a link to the benchmarks you are showing? I wanted to see the h265 results, but you completely skipped it and only showed h264
9:34 Thank you, that's the shame with these boards that they don't just give you a slot and a card rather than integration into the motherboard, especially at those prices. But that's server territory I'm guessing.
I feel like my 5800x won the lottery. It was an early chip. I run it around 4.8 all core and it barely gets warm with an air cooler and still gets me 16k on R23. -30 all core helps I am sure. Voltage I think it is around 1.125 if I recall. Been stable like this forever. Making it harder to get excited to move on. I'll see how these chips shake out. Unlocked x3d would be tempting.
Why the hell does upgrading to 6.3 which fixes MOST of my issues break the iGPU?
I can't see whatever errors are getting displayed. This is maddening.
If there's one thing I've learned, it's that all accessories are Linux accessories with enough patience and know how.