Fencing Corruption Scandal Makes German News
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- This is a clip from a German news segment on a program called ARD in which the corruption and match-fixing in sabre fencing are discussed. Here is another link discussing this issue in a German newspaper:
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Imagine having tech that's being over ruled by some middle ager dude with poor eyesight 🤣
How can the tech deside who has the right to attack?
@@nielasaran5494thats a dumb rule anyway...fence or don't fence, this right of attack thing is just BS
"The end of saber fencing" is a pretty strong kicker to the story
@@vernonstournamentvid he’s not exaggerating: that’s where I strongly believe all of this is heading
@@CyrusofChaos I've officially, as of this month, been part of this sport for 30 years. I'm reffing at a small club of enthusiastic kids and parents this weekend and I'm not really sure what to say if they ask. It's very disappointing 😕
@@vernonstournamentvid if this problem ever affects you it’s because you’re already phenomenally accomplished. And people like me are working very hard to make sure this comes to an end as soon as possible. There’s always more going on in the background than I’m allowed to talk about publicly. Trust me, things are happening and progress is being made
@@CyrusofChaos thank you I like that answer a lot
Finally, someone talks about usmanov influence on fencing
@@Riksia take a look at the interview Marcus and I did with Pablo Torre. You can find it by searching CZcams for "Pablo Torre Finds Out Fencing"
The IOC is on the same level as the FIFA.
It's too bad that the IOC doesn't organize the competitions, but the respective world federation does. That's why the IOC has no influence on the judges.
@@DieParan00bs who organizes the competitions? and have you watched the same video as we...or do you want to offer money?
@@RobVaderful The world federations organize the competitions in their respective sport, except of boxing which is organized by the IOC itself because of a dispute between the IOC and the world federations.
@@DieParan00bs You mean in the sport that is overhadowed by skandals this year?
When I was young, saber was fenced without electronic scoring. Not only did the officials have to decide the right of way, they also had to decide on whether a hit had been made. As crazy as that sounds, I think there was less controversy about officiating than there is today. That is just so sad.
Good feature. Here's the takeaway: sabre needs to be fair - or its future is in doubt.
@@iainmcclure416 very succinct
Want to cover chain of drama that currently happens in polish fencing as well? :)
After the drama of not wanting to pick Jarecka for Olympics and issues surrounding veteran circuit, just few days ago during team foil Poland vs China broadcast commentator openly attacked polish fencing federation and suggested the ministry of sport, PM and media took a close look at how polish fencing federation operates as well as other sport federations. It was already picked up by media and there's a shitstorm on polish fencing groups on FB atm
@@GdzieJestNemo can you send me more about that privately on Instagram please :)
@@CyrusofChaos I'v just sent the message on insta. ffs first message with all the links and translations got removed and sent just as friend invite :(
That last touch could of been simo or I would lean towards right attack as Sandro pulls the hand more. There were earlier touches where if you wanted ( corrupt touch) could of lean to either side. So I do not believe it was an influenced referee.
@@TheRealMatyiLudas well put!
Absolutely not. Chichon is one of the few at the top, along with Miklos Kosa, who I don't believe is corrupt. I don't see the same rate of funny calls from either and both are usually happy to overturn mistakes.
For the record, I have not wavered since I saw it live that the final point was textbook AoP for Amer. Sandro's first movement with the arm is down and not out. Amer is much more direct with his attack
There are very good reasons to report corruption in Sabre Fencing, but reporting Bazadze’s outburst first is absolutely wrong. His calls, while subjective, were not even close to the corruption seen in other levels of the sport. Bazadze’s behaviour was shameful and that he’s given a platform like this really doesn’t shine a good light on our community.
Also the final point was very obviously NOT an incorrect call lol
In the last Olympics, Bazadze lost in the semifinals due to a referee's mistake. The officials later apologized to him for the error. This time, it happened again-five deserved points were unjustly taken away from him and given to his opponent. Imagine yourself in his place: so many years of hard training and world-class dominance, only to lose in the most important competition because of corrupt judges.
@@nikolozi7355 Sure he did. He also won in his T8s in Tokyo due to a referee’s mistake. He wasn’t the only one to be screwed by a ref’s mistake, he’s just the only one crying like a sore loser constantly about it.
War das nicht bei Szabo gegen Ägypter auch so? Ich hatte sofort diesen Eindruck und früher waren Treffer akustisch hörbarer!
I'm just lucky I don't fence saber😬
Im even luckier, I don't fence at all
I guess I just don't understand why both sides can't be awarded a touch/point anymore. Seems like it has moved completely away from that
They are, in Epee, but not in Sabre. The different weapons use different rulesets, for better or worse
This was never the case, but simultaneous attacks should result in no point being given (assuming both are on target. Back in the before times, presidents called simultaneous a lot, which led to its own set of problems, but it meant that when a point was awarded the reason was usually clear.
Sabre fencig has a big problem. It's going to die as a sport unless major overhaul is done. Yes, the rule has become too complicated and subjective to interpret in sabre fencing. The only solution is to simplify the rules--i.e. get rid of right of way rules and toss out all simultaneous touches. Only one light prevails. It's like the reverse of epee fencing. No subjective interpretation needed by the refs. End of story.
Aren't sensors used like in other sports? It seems like these biases can easily be resolved
they cant really in sabre fencing as the rules for gaining priority are very complicated and thus require an actual person to make the decision. A computer could only do so much to help and it would probably only be useful for the easier to spot calls anyway.
Vladimir Nazlymov was triple Olympic champion!?
@@frostedcrim yep! Three gold medals in and a silver medal team, and a silver and bronze medal in individual
@@CyrusofChaos no fucking way!!
I vote for sabre to be suspended from future Olympics until rules are updated and roles of referee interpretation are materially reduced. On a related note....The Korean TV coverage of the Paris Olympic Korea sabre events (both individual and team) had two recently retired sabre fencers (Kim Jun-ho and Kim Jung-Hwan) as commentators. It was interested to hear their comments about referees. Of course, they were being very careful in what they were saying about the referees but it was clear that understanding how referees can behave has to be factored into the bout strategy.
Das passiert, wenn Usmanov die Schiedsrichter schmiert
❤❤❤
IMHO saber at the highest level is fought so well, that even spectators can usually follow the action, and with slo-mo re-runs, I found that I was calling action from my couch consistent with the final calls maybe 90% of the time. I didn't always agree, but there is that tiny chance that maybe I am wrong. With the whole world watching I think Saber can survive.
One major issue is that pool bouts aren't televised/streamed and that's where the shenanigans are alleged to occur.
But I do agree that sabre can (and will) survive. I'm not as pessimistic as some are the state of sabre, but CyrusOfChaos is right: sabre is broken, and we made it worse following the Rio Olympics.
@@chukuemekaoje1015 at what point in DEs. does video review begin? Table of 8?
@@bikingfencer Table of 64 usually
Haja, Ostblockländer halt, ganz normal.
Das soll damit sugerriert werden..
Sind halt am anfälligsten.
What's the role of gambling in all this? Fencing isn't a big enough sport for a world cup medal to be worth bribes, people must be gambling large amounts on bribed results as well imo
State funding. You win that medal, you get funding for the next couple of years. In some countries, we are talking hundreds of thousands.
Also FIE grants are important. The FIE takes money from Usmanov (and similar). It gives this out as grants to emerging nations (especially in Africa) - most of which goes on officials, not fencers. Those national federations vote as a block to support Russia /Uzbekistan / allies. This allows more 'dark money' to enter the sport - and so it goes on.
Nonsense.. a gold medal is worth a lot for some particular countries..and the bribery is obviously much lower compared to more "important" sports
dann ganz einfach. weg mit dem seltsamen sport bei dem der gewinner der ist, der mehr bezahlt.braucht man nicht bei olympia
Olympia itself is corrupt, so what is scandal
Ah the German state tv blame Putin personally 😂. I think this man has 100 clones
If Putin wanted he would have stopped that, but he is one of the reasons why corruption is still a ruling issue in Russia - what do you expect from a former KGB agent? honesty?
@@thomas.thomasAnd you think here in Germany there is no corruption...dreamer......
Germany has corruption but it doesn't have it as one of its cultural and political institutions compared to Russia. Even if former GDR "Germans" want to change that.
@@thomas.thomasDid you see the TV report? Corruption affects fencing worldwide, including the United States. Putin is not responsible for everything.
@@MrNebelschattenVon was redest Du da?? Was wollen ehemalige "DDR-Deutsche"🤦🏼♂️ in Deutschland ändern??
I dont want any tax payers money to fund this irrelevant sport.
damn who made you so angry?
@@sketion5188 Knowing that my taxes help pay for this bullshit.
Why the heck are there distracting hardcoded subtitles, if you can set optional subtitles?
@@chapamwamba because I don't think the AI subtitles don't do a good job and I would say something like 95% of my viewers don't speak German. Feel free to go to the original website to watch the story without subtitles which nobody else is complaining about 😂
@@CyrusofChaos I know, this is an issue, not a lot of people have. But: Afaik you can set your own subtitles for CZcams. For me it would mean a lot, since subtitles are really distracting for me. Please don't take my "hate" personally - I hate hardcoded subtitles, not you. And thank you for your response!
@@CyrusofChaosI am pretty sure you can set the subtitles manualy.
You can set your own subtitles in every language you like. You dont need to reliy on the AI...
Maybe they should cover the match fixing that occurred in the Men's Foil final also.