Hush: "What are...friends for?" Superman: "Hey Bruce there's a creepy man standing on the adjacent roof spying on us with binoculars and repeating everything we say suspiciously. Presumably he's unaware I have super hearing and telescopic vision."
I like to imagine during this entire story, the Penguin was just working at The Iceburg Lounge, not noticing anything. At one point, he looks up and thinks, "Huh, quiet week," and then goes back to business.
alternatively: Riddler: hey, I have this plan to ruin batman penguin: like all the other ones? Riddler: yeah but I got it all worked out, you see, I Penguin: not interested Riddler: you didn't even hear it! Penguin: indeed. If I'm going to kill the bat, I'm doing it MY way Riddler: Look, I got everyone onboard! Poison Ivy, Joker, Scarecrow.... Penguin: Oh yes, now I'm even LESS interested. Now, get the hell out Riddler: ...you'll regret this. and then penguin just had a party that week
@@sarafontanini7051 Maybe he was salty he never got even invited when he found out Everyone except Bane got invited to this. Probablyeven tried to team-up with Bane as the ultimate attack towards the Bat and alongside other famous or other B-Lister members among Batman's rogues gallery that weren't invited Who could Penguin have tried to recruit aside of Bane? Black Mask? Mr. Freeze? Mad Hatter? Clock King? who else?
i liked to think he had a poker night and could not attend and every other villain was their doing another bet of who almost got the bat good for them since if killer croc was their he would have won with a pretty big rock
To all those asking about Superman not noticing Hush, there's a simple answer to that: Hush was _over there_ and over there has to take care of itself.
Mine definitely comforts a scared child. My Batman is very much human, he's not overpowered. He makes mistakes and is kinda clumsy during his first and second year, but he learns.
Not necessarily on the 'Punisher' point. Frank Castle WHEN WRITTEN PROPERLY can be a very intriguing character, the reason he became 'the Punisher' is because of the murder of his wife and children, would he comfort a scared child, depends on the writer, but when written properly he probably would because of how he would imagine his own children being as they died in his arms. Sadly many writers go down the 'Grimdark' angle with the punisher.
That line about Clark being a good guy deep down, while deep down Bruce isn't has always been one that's driven me nuts. It's like: Bruce, you have three adopted sons, a biological son you took in without so much as questioning it, you don't kill, and if any of your rogues asked for therapy and help you would move heaven, earth, and hell to make sure they got it. Tell yourself you're a bad man all you want, but the truth is deep down you're a bigger boyscout than Clark Kent will ever be and you're just lying to yourself to keep that cowl on your head.
I think that trope comes from how Batman stories are written typically with more moral ambiguity and complexity than the average Superman story (at least from what I’ve seen) and Batman takes on far more real and depraved but ultimately human menaces and takes them out in more… violent means. It’s rare nowadays to find a Batman story where he’s fighting aliens or time travellers, at least in his own comic series, and it isn’t uncommon to find him on the run from the law. Not only that, but there’s the line from The Dark Knight about ‘I’m the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs.’ I do agree that Batman is ultimately a good man, I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s a better person than Superman is, who does have moments of intensity, but it isn’t the norm with his character. But that’s just my opinion.
Actually, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Clark is upstanding and will almost never resort to something "underhanded" unless pushed to the brink. Clark is one of the nicest people on the planet. But Bruce? While he's got an unshakeable moral code, there is only *one* thing he won't do to win. He'll fight dirty, he'll cheat, he'll do whatever needs to be done to win, no matter how messy or dirty it is. The only thing he won't do is flat-out murder someone. You can see this in what they're associated with. Superman works in the light, and is so associated with light that he draws his power *from the sun.* Superman is hope, he *can't* allow himself to do things that might undermine that hope. But Batman does his work in the dark. He does the things that Superman can't be seen doing. He can get his hands dirty. He won't hesitate to hurt someone, often *severely.* Batman can afford to be feared, even hated. You can see arguably the best example of this in Alex Ross's "Justice", when Batman is interrogating Captain Cold. "No, I'm thinking about your fingers. And how many of them you'd like to keep." And the kicker? He was under the influence of the Lasso of Truth. That wasn't a threat. That's why they're an unstoppable force when working together. They each make up for the weaknesses of the other. In that way, Bruce very much is the "bad" to Clark's "good".
" His parents died when he was so young. Shot. Killed right in front of him. He was raised alone. A kid in a huge mansion. With his memories of his mother and father. He had love, and they took it from him. He should be a killer. He should want to tear the world apart for what it did. And yet he took that pain. That shock of death. And he turned it into hope." Superman explaining the perfect reason why Bruce is the hero he is.
Fun fact; even the choice of Gianni Schicchi is thematically relevant. The opera's about a family who's father had just died and the son lies about a fake family inheritance.
@@Mobysimo also, is it just me or does Jeph Loeb love using Poison Ivy? He used her in The Long Halloween too except that she brainwashed Bruce in that issue with the biggest difference being that she uses him for power and not muscle as seen here.
You know what would've been much better? If Talia and Ra's heard about Hush and Clayface impersonating Jason Todd and decided to dig up his body and do it for real. That would've made more sense and would require no retcons at all.
33:09 "Where was THIS Jeff Loeb during Ultimatum?" Jeff Loeb's son died of bone cancer in 2005, and from what I can gather it was (understandably) still deeply affecting him and his creative work for the next few years. In hindsight, it makes sense that the main villain in Ultimatum is a parent whose driven to irrational and self-destructive actions by the death of their child. It's what the dude was going through at the time.
Considering Hush's main motive, I'm surprised he never teamed up with Hugo Strange. One wants to be Bruce Wayne (or have everything he has, at least). The other wants to be Batman. Together, they could wage war on Wayne on two fronts - on both of his personas. There's some quality story potential there I think.
You can Even have them eventually turn against each other when they realize that, to truly be either Batman or Bruce Wayne, they must be both. Maybe even add recent addition to the batfamily Ghost-Maker, given he is basically a heroic / anti heroic version of what Hush and Hugo Strange want to be, but in a more heroic way as Ghost-Maker just tries to be "More competent than Batman at everything, including saving lives" while also Ghost-Maker is like The Batman straight out of Batman: The Brave and the Bold cartoon, but seeing saving lives more like "a challenge" rather than doing it for the drive to help others
The fanfic I’m writing, Beware the Gray Ghost, has an arc that’s like that. Bruce breaks his back in a car accident (later revealed to be set up by Elliot), so Simon, Dick, Jason, and the rest of the bat fam have to work at protecting Gotham until he recovers. The full identity of hush goes like this Thomas Elliot, the sleeper, knows Bruce Wayne personally and can get into his head that way Hugo Strange, the analyst, was able to decipher Batman’s identity and knows what will affect Bruce from that side of his life Edward Nigma, the planner, fulfilling a similar role to the new movie and forging the game the bat family must play
To me, the question of "Should Batman kill the Joker?" is a sign that the comic book writers have pushed the Joker to the breaking point of our suspension of disbelief. By default, Batman shouldn't kill his enemies. Just arrest them and let the police and justice system deal with the rest, which often takes them to jail. And then occasionally, have the criminals break out for another conflict with Bats, no questions of continuity. It's why we accept this scenario in other shows like Darkwing Duck or really any superhero based show. It's standard routine of the superhero world. But the reason why it works is because the supervillains aren't doing anything so heinously evil to make the audience want bigger punishment. Often, in the past, a villain like the Joker would rob banks or remake a city into their own image. It's standard cartoonish villainy that entertains the audience and distracts them from reality. But when the villain does something that hits too close to real life, like say mass murders or harming a hero's loved ones, that is something that cannot be resolved with a trip to prison. The editors of Spider-Man realized this when Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy. They knew there was no going back and Norman Osborn had to die in the following issue. Now Spider-Man didn't kill Norman there, but Norman ended up being impaled by his own glider and remained dead for over 20 years. That is a statement to heinous of his crime to the audience. So when the Joker does something similar to Jason Todd, you expect he suffer the same fate as Norman Osborn. Being killed off for real and not show for decades to come. But no. The Joker did not suffer that fate and because so many people want to top the Killing Joke, they end up giving the Joker more heinous crimes to his name. This lack of punishment for the Joker eventually cast a light into Batman's no killing code, and caused many people to advocate that Batman should kill the Joker because evidentially throwing him to prison isn't enough anymore since he constantly escapes. The suspension of disbelief is broken for many and will remain as such until writers realize this darker interpretation of the Joker has done more harm to the character than helps. The truth is that the Joker has become less funny, more predicable, and generally more uncomfortable when his crimes bear resemblance to real-world mass shootings and other horrible crimes seeking out attention. I don't recall the Joker doing anything that is over-the-top and campy anymore. Now he just kill lots of people plus Batman's loved ones because it hurts Batman. That's sad interpretation of the Joker. Any killer can do that; Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, Ridley, Pennywise. The modern Joker wouldn't stand out from them.
Unless I'm mistaken here, I found the addition of Space Pirate lieutenant and murderous space dragon Ridley an odd inclusion alongside the biggest names of horror cinema. That being said, I'm not against a Metroid/DC crossover where Batman hunts down Ridley. It's not like he'd be out of place in DC canon.
@@TheAwakeOrangutang The reason I thought about Ridley is because in addition to being a murderer, he has sadistic sense of humor that he uses to twist the knife on Samus' trauma. Him reminiscing about how he killed and eaten her mother is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read. The inclusion of Ridley (along with Pennywise and Freddy) is to show that even a sadistic sense of humor is not enough to make the Joker stand out from the rest if he's just a killer.
Funnily enough, in a Batman Fanfic I recently read, Joker himself realizes this and finds that he has become kinda stale and unoriginal with this whole Mass Murderer Clown-Thing. And where's the fun in that? So he decides to change his act up to more campy and goofy again. As he himself puts it in the Story: "Right now, I'm just becoming another Viktor Zsaz. And who wants to be that Loser?"
@chuckschaaff I'm an avid reader of ao3 and basically any thoughts you could have exist in a least some capacity. If you've got something in particular you're interested in I'd be happy to recommend.
@chuckschaaff Sneaking out for Superhero Teenagers: a Guide White_Tiger94 Is pretty funny, it's about sleep deprived tim drake and some batman+ justice league shenanigans
Linkara: "The nice thing about writing my own rules is getting to decide when I'm okay breaking them." Me: **glances at the bullet-riddled remains of Top 15 Comics I'll Never Review**
@@ArcCaravan linkara's to do list before quitting at4w. 15.punisher meets archie. 14. marvel zombie(if you don't count longbox of the damned(though i do)) 13.batman no 66 12.nextwave:agents of H.A.T.E.(Nextwave: why isn't this a show on disney+?) 11.who wants to be a superhero? 10. Lost girls 9. tarot: witch of the black rose 8. maximum carnage 7. marvel vs dc 4A. motion comics(I don't count black panther 1-6 or anything else he's done that's been adapted into a motion comic. he never reviewed the actual motion comics themselves)
honestly when Linkara was talking about Hush's motivation i half expected him to use the TFS clip about Broly's origin "thats really dumb.....but he's so cool!! but thats SO DUMB!!!"
In all honesty, I feel like Batman’s crime families only work when he’s in his earlier days as the Caped Crusader. It’s a sort of food chain that helps ramp things up to the point where Batman puts less focus on them and more on the supervillains he faces today. It’s something that The Long Halloween balances really well, given that it takes place during Batman’s early-ish years, not long after Year One but still before he’s become the established crimefighter he is.
I saw something that said The Long Halloween was sort of a “changing of the guard” for the villains: instead of fighting mobsters and the like he’s fighting the likes of Clayface, Killer Croc and Mister Freeze more frequently.
I agree, Batman should start out going up against the crime families when he starts his career as the Dark Knight. But eventually have bigger hitters that Batman is more well known for fighting slowly taking over Gotham and driving out the crime families so they can be the ones running the show.
The Batman not killing the Joker thing doesn't bother me. What I find laughably stupid is the notion that, in a city as corrupt and crime riddled as Gotham, in the US, the Joker would not at some point have had a .357 emptied into the back of his head by a cop one of the times that he was captured.
Or hell, just legally executed. While I am a FIRM advocat against the death penatly in real life, none of the reasons that make it wrong in real life really apply to supervillains. -they are undoubtetly guilty -there is a MASSIVE risk of them breaking out -they will cause further harm if given the chance -they are clearly unrepentent -their harm is on such a massive scale that neither the costs for the death penatly nor the harm by killing one person in any way compares to what they do if continued
@@sebastiankrant2738 This is ultimately why I think it's right that Batman doesn't kill. The voters/state could (and probably should) demand the death penalty. If they don't, it's not up to Batman to decide otherwise.
One thing I will say is the best defense I’ve heard for Batman and other superheroes refusing to kill is: what right does Batman have to kill? When fans ask for Batman to kill what the are asking for is the glorification of extrajudicial murder. They are asking for Comic book stories where the good guys circumvent the due process of the law and deprive super villains and common criminals of their right to trial. And the reason why they’re asking for this kind of thing to be glorified is that when fans are asking for stories where Batman kills they’re certainly not asking for stories where Batman kills a completely innocent person he wrongly suspected of having committed a crime. Despite the fact that when masked vigilantes kill people in the real world that’s usually the result. They want a fantasy world where the kind of violence they want Batman and other superheroes to commit is only committed against “deserving” targets and is thus justified.
@@thomasraines1396 yeah, that help totaly leads to results. And Batman is ONLY fighting deserving targets so that counterargument is kind of mute anyway.
Personally I like the idea of Jason being an anti-hero both as a response to his own murder and his hatred of criminals, but also as a reflection/anti-thesis of Batman and his teachings. Basically using his training and skills to take out criminals and control what he can't kill. He's someone who does what he does because he feels it's the only way to take down criminals, but he still has a deep love and respect for his adoptive father. At least that's my take on it. I was only really exposed to Jason as a character via the Red Hood film and I really liked the tragedy of him becoming a dark reflection of Batman haunted by his own death and Batman's seeming inability to avenge him.
The thing is, in that film/comic, Jason is the villain. He's definitely a sympathetic one that makes a some good points. But there's more there than just "kill or don't kill bad guys". It's a lot more personal than that. Jason doesn't just disagree with Batman. He feels personally offended by him. He feels that by letting the Joker live, Bruce is saying he really doesn't give a damn about him. About anyone. This is further expanded upon in Red Hold Lost Days (which I hope is reviewed at some point), where the writer of Under the Red Hood basically shows what Jason was up to during the years where he was resurrected to when he finally returned to Gotham. There are separate points where Jason could kill Batman and Joker and be done with them forever. Rid the world of them and enact his own justice as he pleases. But both times he realized that wasn't enough for him. It's not enough to just clean up Gotham. Or the world. He wants *proper* vindication. He wants to knock Bats off his high horse. Look him in the eyes as he crushes him. Wants to prove he's better. In short, he's lashing out at a father who he thinks forgot him. And everyone is caught in the crossfire. That's what makes him a villain on his worst days. I'm okay with the occasional team-up. I like to believe Batman and Nightwing still care about him despite having to fight him. And I do think they made him a little too cartoonishly evil in that Batman run where Dick wore the mantle. But I still think the sudden sanitization of his character in 2011 hurt the character more than it helped. There's no more tension or stakes when he's around. He's just a less silly Deadpool. An anti-hero without consequence.
@@skibot9974 Which, considering Catwoman has killed (and considering Black Mask tortured and killed her brother in-law and tortured her sister, I feel it's understandable Seilna decided to put a bullet in his head), pretty sure Huntress has killed has least once, and most of the Justice League members have killed at least once...yeah, gonna have to disagree with Linkara on that mindset.
@@tylerleach8796 well Linkara mentions in this video he didn’t like Batman still associating with Catwoman after that. Though I don’t know enough about the comics to comment on the Justice League thing
You know everyone thought Mr. Freeze was lame until Heart of Ice, everyone thought Calender Man was lame until The Long Halloween, everyone thought Kite Man was lame until The War of Jokes and Riddles. Someday One Face is gonna be Batmans most nuanced and complex villain and his origins movie will win DC another Oscar.
I would say that Calendar Man remained lame with The Long Halloween. It made him a loser behind bars. I would say Dixon did far better for him in the 80 page giant where Dixon explores his obsession for dates and events. As for Kite Man that War of Jokes and Riddles is utter crap, the guy decided to take the mantle of the object that KILLED his son in order to honor him? Shouldn't Charlie have taken as gimmick literally EVERYTHING ELSE but kites when he knows that his son was killed by a kite? So dumb
@@leephillips4402 what kind of logic is this? Kite Man got a spin-off show from the Harley Quinn's animated series. What this has anything to do with King's use of Kite Man in the War of Jokes and Riddles?
33:54 Despite being a criminal, Catwoman is a thief, not a killer. This is the one reasons why Batman have feelings for her. With the exception of Black Mask she never killed anyone and consider how Selina knows Batman well, I don't she would want to see him becoming a monster and losing his humanity and compassion.
Context for people in the future: DC veto'd a scene in the Harley Quinn cartoon where Batman "goes down" on Catwoman. Internet had a field day with it.
Other reason Batman isn't responsible for not killing the Joker. Every single time Joker is captured he would be arrested and tried. And every single time he is sent to an Asylum instead of being sent to a prison, or executed. People forget the second reason Batman doesn't kill. Its not his job. Batman isn't Judge Jury and Executioner, he's the policeman. Batman catches the Joker and gives him to the court system to deal with, who then offscreen fail to do anything.
Further addition... when the IRS came after the Joker after another criminal successfully played a prank on him... Joker did what he could to NOT break tax law As the Joker knows he'd get sent to real jail by the IRS Joker literally CHOOSES to do stuff that will get him into Arkham, so that he can keep doing stuff
@@NimhLabs Not to mention, whilst the Joker is an absolute monster, he's only one of Gotham's big issues. If he got arrested for killing the Joker and lost favour with law enforcment, anyone from the Penguin to the Marconi's could take over Gotham. Sure there's the rest of the Batfam but they're either usually in another city, with the Titans, dead/presumed dead/paralysed/brainwashed with the ability to write Navajo or they're a dog.
@@christopherbennett5858 We... We don't talk about the little Navajo incident. It was absurd then, it is now. Didn't happen, Cass is and will always be a hero. ...If only :(
I love your speech about why Batman shouldn't kill the Joker. It's one thing if someone dies in a fight for your life, or falls off a roof and you're unable to save them. But actual murder? That's a step Batman shouldn't take. Like Sam Vimes from Discworld says: "I'm not a natural killer! See this? See what it says? I'm supposed to keep the peace, I am! If I kill people to do it, I'm reading the wrong manual!" Loved this episode btw.
Reminds me of a line from Persona 5 Strikers: “If we have to stoop to the level of the bad guys to protect people, then being a hero is pointless.” I might have the wording mixed up, but that is essentially what is being said
I also agree with Linkara's take on why the Batman shouldn't kill the Joker. Just be careful reading fanfiction though. There readers beg the authors to kill the Joker if he is in the story. Like seriously.
I agree too. If anything, some of Batman's enemies or just the government alone should kill Joker, not Batman himself. Along with innocent lives in general, it's costly to keep Joker alive; for criminals it should go without saying that his actions cost them more money that they could make of the explotation of civilians and simple government corruption.
I like sparing the Joker being about staying trusted by others alongside basic morality, and it being pointed out Batman is no more responsible for Joker's crimes than everyone who could've but didn't kill him.
What's funny to me is how much he has changed since the Golden Age in that regard. Four different times that I know of, he killed someone. The guy in Detective Comics #27, a bank robbery in DC #28 who he kicked off a roof, #29 when he accidentally burnt a guy to death, #30 when he kicked a guy so hard on a batrope swing that he snapped his neck, and #31 (granted that was a goddamn vampire). Times change massively.
Honestly, even though i didn't like Hush as a villain, i find nothing wrong with his motivation. Yeah, it's simple , but it's also realistic. Not every Batman villain needs to be an almost-sympathetic figure with severe mental trauma and a sad backstory; some of them can be just jerks who want to be rich.
That's why, even though most people hate the 'Terrible Trio' episode from the animated series, I found it rather insightful, as they were just rich jerks getting a thrill out of committing crimes because they were under the assumption that their money could get them out of any legal trouble they might face.
personally I like hush, even though I only read two stories featuring him (this and house of hush being the other, which granted wasn't REALLY a hush story so it was a bit of a waste of the character). He's certainly a better 'evil foil to bruce wayne' than say prometheus or some such
I wouldn't say its the case that there was something wrong with Hush's motivations, just that it was not good enough for a story this good, and was WAY below the kind of interest there was in the idea of Hush being Jason Todd. "Greedy kid who was just pissed off that he failed to kill his parents and taking it out on Bruce" is a HUGE step down from "Former sidekick coming back from the grave".
Agree. Tommy being Hush could work as villain if the story showed dark moments where we, the readers, see his dark side, his abusive relationship with his parents and his slowly increase hate towards Bruce, maybe even some little hints. A good exemple of this type of mystery done well is in Mask of the phantasm, where the flashbacks show Bruce relationship with the antagonist but also hints about the phantasm life and reasons behind the death of the victims.
They're comic fans. On the internet. Lewis' great nieces and nephews will be told about it the way we're told about all the insensitive/stupid comic stories from the gold and silver ages.
To this day, I still don't understand that shit. "Batman doesn't like bringing pleasure to the person he is with." is a weird take and makes no logical sense.
“Where was this Jeph Loeb during Ultimatum”? He had watched his beloved son die slowly of cancer. I’m more than willing to forgive Loeb for telling some grim, depressing, messy stories after losing his son. If anything, I wish he had been allowed to take a sabbatical from the biz in general…it’s clear that the loss of his son was devastating.
@@christopherb501 Are a systemic problem in the television and film industry as a whole and not one man. It also has nothing to do with the quality of his writing so why are you bringing it up?
@@danielleasewala2225 Look up quotes and personal accounts; the man has issues beyond just what we see in comics, and while yes, these are systemic ones overall, stuff is still happening on his watch and from him directly.
@@christopherb501 Cool. Great. He's a shit person then I guess. Shame that the original comment was about his writing ability and quality and not him as a person. Thus again, how does this effect the completely justifiable statement in the original comment?
"killed black mask after some horriffic things he did to her friends.....and now I'm iffy about Bruce's continued association with her." First of all, the horrific things Black Masks were: 1. torturing Selina's brother-in-law in front of Selina's sister, and then fed her dead husbands eyeballs to her, before continuing to torture said sister until she wound up retreating into a catatonic state 2. Murdering the father (Slam Bradley Jr.) of Selina's then unborn child right in front of her 3. Having no qualms about murdering various orphaned street kids (the Strays) that Selina has under her protection. "horrific things done to her friends" is a massive, massive, massive understatement. Second: By that logic, he should disassociate himself with Jim Gordon, who has killed multiple people. I'm usually against superheroes killing, but imo what Selina did was a far cry warranting being cut out of Bruce's life. Hell, I don't see you arguing he should cut Zatanna or the other heroes behind the mind wipe out of his life, which in my opinion, is akin to rape.
Ya i think its one thing for Batman to live up to his own high morals, but i think it would be asking A LOT that he would expect everyone else to live up to those same high morals.
Really, I think that just highlights the whole problem Linkara spoke about in the review with writers trying to constantly up the stakes on how monstrous they can make the supervillains. I get all the reasons for not having superheroes kill, but it's hard to gel that with a world where Joker's probably one of the greatest mass murderers in history who's gotten his hands on nukes several times, Black Mask is running his own personal Saw film franchise, and so on. It just leads to fundamentally broken storytelling when the villains are full grimdark, and nothing's really being done to stop them.
@@chengarqordath Yeah when you have Joker basically being Hannibal Lecter...you kinda need to reassess where that line is. I remember somewhere before they went off the deep end with New52 I had seen a comic of Joker having staged a riot in Arkham, offing people left and right, cutting off peoples hands, throwing the hands in deep fryers and wondering how much further they could go...and then they did. I kinda stopped reading comics quite some time before that just for these sorts of reasons and I'm not seeing anything now that makes me want to come back into modern comics. I'll stick to TPB's older GOOD works, thanks.
My Grandma and I loved this show, and we watched this one together a few weeks ago. My Grandma passed away a few hours ago. Thank you for all the fun, Lewis. RIP Barbara M., 1943-2021.
@@RabblesTheBinx Everyone's a meta If you put Joe chill in a real world prison he would take it over because he simply lives in a world where everyone is built different With Lazarus pits another bull c*** in the soil the water is probably contaminated with super power juice
Catwoman trying to stop him makes sense to us at least. She's not stopping him because she has a moral objection to killing. She's stopping him because she knows he has a moral objection to killing so she knows he would regret it.
Indeed. Those are pretty much the words she utters. She doesn't care about the Joker and has, in fact, tried to kill him more than once but knows for a fact that if Batman did he'd end up regretting it one way or the other. She's not trying to save Joker, she's trying to save Batman.
This!!!!!!! The entire point of BatCat is that they come from opposite sides of the tracks as the saying goes. Bruce was born into everything, Selina was born into nothing. Both became orphans at a young age. Bruce had Alfred to help him through it. Selina had no one. Selina didn’t have the luxury of of sticking to certain morals as every day was a fight to survive. And yet despite that divide they understand each other. Selina knows that if Bruce killed the Joker, he would never forgive himself. And if that happened, she’d never forgive herself. They genuinely care about each other. And that will never go away
@@CaptainEnglehorn You could even make the argument for why he's more lenient with her actions, like killing Black Mask, as Linkara questioned. Even if he doesn't like what she did, he does understand it because he does understand her, or at least make an effort to do so.
A comment on the ending: 1. I love how Riddler literally does the "Finger up, finger down" meme. My only disappointment is that his line in the next panel isn't "Shit, you've got a point there." 2. I may be an outsider to the greater Batman lore, but it does seem like gradually, one by one, *all* of Batman's arch nemeses are figuring out his secret. Ra's Al Ghul knew from the start as the one who trained Bruce to become Batman. Scarecrow worked it out through his psychological profile. The Joker has found out multiple times by way of being Batman's closest foil. Now The Riddler solved the puzzle. At some point, I have to wonder if Batman being unmasked wouldn't just be met with a collective cry of "Duh, everybody knows that already!"
I'm pretty sure that the only villain that knows his identity constantly is Ra's... Riddler lost the knowledge at some point as did Hugo Strange.... And I think Scarecrow never knew his identity outside Arkham games. Should Batmans identity become common knowledge realisticaly? Yes, but it wont happen
@@stcsuntzucreed Pretty sure Bane also knows and he definitely knew when Dick was Batman, which was something that most of the others outside of maybe Joker and Ra's didn't. But basically like Joker, Bane doesn't care.
Not entirely sure of everyone myself, but Joker has known Batman's identity since Endgame (no, not that one), and Two-Face seems to be aware as well (or rather, Harvey Dent knows, but not Two-Face). Of course, Ra's and Bane have known since their first appearances and never lost that knowledge, Catwoman has been an ally for years now, and there's newer villains like The Court of Owls finding out during their debut storyline. As for the general public, One character (Alfred, I think) said it best: “Guessing that Bruce Wayne is Batman isn't difficult. Proving it is another matter entirely."
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy Agreed, Bruce Wayne turning out to be BatMan is if Will Smith turned out to be a super Tech dude that know all material arts and more in the eyes of civilians or based on some continuities, it would be some C/D List Celebrity being what I described.
Not to mention technology nowadays would make it easier to deduce that Bruce and Batman are the same. Back in the day, it was harder to do, but now it’s very easy to figure it out.
Oddly enough, Batman: Arkham City included one of the best Hush stories by focusing on the "surgeon mummy" part of "surgeon mummy Aristotle-quoter trenchcoat guy with two guns". That Hush doesn't even know Bruce Wayne is Batman, and focuses his ire solely on Bruce, which makes his actions (particularly the face-reconstruction thing) fit his motive better. The Arkham Knight continuation of Hush was a little weaker, but still included a very memorable moment (Batman stunning Hush by unmasking himself).
What I like about that part (especially the Arkham City bit) is that it’s Conroe doing Hush’s voice but he doesn’t sound like Batman until he says “I will not be in such a generous mood”. Which is when you’d think he put two and two together
@@Xehanort10 After learning about how Gwen Stacy banged The Green Goblin, I am staring to think some people in theses medias have some problems that need sorting out.
39:28 "Word under the street is that you're seeing Catwoman." I just love this idea of supercriminal gossip. 'And I heard that Batman like... totally made out with Catwoman.' 'Oh mah, gawd, no way!' All the supervillains and goons just exchanging rumors about who hooked up with whom. Having like little meetings where they exchange gossips.
I like this comic ending with Bruce's trust issues messing up his relationship with Selina but the promise that someday, after the necessary character development, they'll make it work I *don't* like the fact that it seems like *every* BatCat story these days ends with a less good version of that
Yeah. By this point DC should just allow them to get married already or just have Batman and Catwoman as allies (or enemies) and allow Batman to move on and find a new love interest. Even characters like Superman and Lois don't play the whole "will they won't they" troop along time ago.
Seconded. I really don't like it either. It's starting to get to the point that it's up there next to "Overuse of the Joker" as things about Batman books that irk me.
That's actually one of the things I liked about Tom King's run (at least, the first half). The BatCat engagement felt like the payoff for that final scene in Hush. I know the wedding ended the way it did, but I also think that City of Bane ended positively for the pairing. Granted, I can't remember what their current status is nowadays. Just as long as Tyrion doesn't add a new love interest like The New 52 kept doing.
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy I don't think he will, specially since his first arc ended with Batman and Catwoman going on their seperate ways to solve their own issues but promising that they will be together by the end of the year.
I totally get the apathy to Gotham's crime families, but I think they get a pass in stories that show them dying out. Like in Long Halloween it's all about the Falcone family getting wiped out which imo helps build the world where now it's mainly super villains
That is definitely one of the best parts of Long Halloween. I love the 2-page spread with all the villains chilling in Falcone's office. It is just awesome.
Speaking as a nursing student, telling a member of a trauma patient’s family that everything would be ok is a big red flag. Naturally, child Bruce wouldn’t understand that, but just saying.
Batman watching the Alan Scott Green Lanturn fighting a supervillain as a kid is a neat little retcon & the fact superheroes existed back before his parents were killed, really goes to show that Bruce becoming a costumed crime fighter makes sense as I'm sure Bruce wished that a hero like Green Lanturn had come along & stopped Joe Chill from killing his parents & thus became the hero Gotham needed! Also, Thomas Elliot being present is ironic as he would one day become a villain that Batman would one day face!
I get that JMS was going for a personal responsibility for nations with that bit but this is such a simple world view since what "happens over there" will eventually affect "over here" and vice-versa. It baffles me how bad Grounded was since JMS is a fantastic writer. My guess is it's a case of over thinking a story.
The real question shouldn't be "Why hasn't Batman killed the Joker," it should be "Why does he keep taking him back to a place that he repeatedly and easily breaks out of?" Come up with a better way of keeping him contained for Christ's sake, Bruce, you have advanced technology and billions of dollars, and the resources of the Justice League!
"Jason saw Robin as a game, and that's probably what got him killed." Or it might have been him being manipulated by his mother who he thought he could save. But sure, whatever, bruce
Yeah, knowing how Jason ended up being tortured to death by the Joker, that was really messed up. I also don’t like the victim blaming that Batman does to Jason Todd with that line, like he is claiming that it is Jason‘a fault that he was tortured and murdered when if you want to blame someone that wasn’t the Joker, I would place more blame on Batman since he was the one who enabled Jason to become the second Robin.
Stories where Bruce blames Jason for Joker killing him piss me off. How is his mother betraying him so Joker wouldn't expose her illegal surgeries that got her patients killed Jason's fault?
As Igarappappa said, the biggest reason stuff like this happens is largely because continuity just, loves to sweep his mom under the rug; on the whole of Batman's timeline it just *appears* extremely insignificant a detail, and people cling to the bigger moments before and after Jason's death.
Knew it! As soon as Tommy Elliot showed up, my immediate guess was "he's the secret villain." I mean, him "getting killed" did make that dubious, but villains have faked their own deaths before. I think Bleach did something like that years ago. Die as a sympathetic character so nobody suspects you as the villain.
The fact he was introduced in the story that seemingly killed him kind of killed the effectiveness of the red herrings. He was retconed in as an old friend of Bruce, with plenty of flashbacks detailing their new history together. Clearly this character is supposed to be important, and then he dies a few issues after his introduction. Seems like a lot of effort to put into the character if his sole purpose was just to die and have is death almost convince Bats to kill Joker. I think the reveal would have worked better if Tommy had been introduced earlier. Have him exist as a recurring character for a while, with him and Bruce hanging out in the present day to flesh out the character more gradually. The death might have fooled more people if he were a character we had known for longer than a few issues. Plus this extra on panel time before his "death" could have been sprinkled with hints of his dark side and parental issues so his motivations seem less out of nowhere.
@@DaPopeANata Yeah, introducing Tommy earlier in unrelated issues would have helped. Alternately, moving the "fractured skill" later in the story would also have helped, as well. Probably made for a more convincing story, too, rather than starting with career-ending injury. At the very least, though, we could have spent a few issues exploring Tommy's past, hearing from people who knew him and slowly unravelling just how much of a bastard he was, rather than simply being told so in an infodump.
@@stcsuntzucreed Aizen is the one I was thinking of, yes. I didn't mean to suggest that Hush was necessarily ripping off other stories, just... Introducing a flawless, endlessly cheerful old friend out of nowhere is VERY suspicious.
Batman writers like to show Jason's relationship with the bat family as if he was an archetypical "bad boy" someone who batman disapproves of but still loves and keeps around. The problem is that Jason isn't some 16 year old who crashed his dad's car and smokes weed. He's a literal murderer.
Funny. I wanted Jason Todd to be Hush but in turn we got Tommy Elliott in this story. Meanwhile I wanted Tommy to be the Arkham Knight in video game and instead we got Jason Todd. Life is weird .
But Elliot is a fascinating idea: He's a Batman Fanboy. In the extreme. He's resentful that he couldn't be the rich, mysterious, super-badass. He's jealous that someone else became that man. And he hates that Bruce got what he wanted. Tommy even went so far as to want his parents to die, and Bruce beat him to that, too.
Yeah. the ultimate Batman wannabe. alongside probably Hugo Strange. It would be interesting trying to have him imitate Bruce, even trying to be a crimefighter, but neveractually getting or even understanding why Bruce does it Having his own Robin and outright KILLING Criminals because "that's what batman does, doesn't it? i will do it right". It could even be a contrast to the recent addition of Ghost-Maker who is like Bruce's friendly rival but still seeing saving lives as "Yes! I saved more lives than you did Bruce! in your face!" and basically "Tommy Elliot / Hush if he tried to go anti-hero"
That's all stuff you're just reading into the story. It's nothing that's part of this story. What you just described sounds more like "the wrath" a character who was literally created just to be the anti-batman.
Fun Fact: Check His Channel, He's a Fan Of "Beastars", so we maybe see refs to that in ATFW soon, that and knowing his Patreon, he'll even review some of it in the meantime. i bet someone can Patreon request it soon, and knowing this video, it'll also become an long one. (with diffs in both the adaptation and the source also being shown at points.) maybe it is time to try that sometime. *Thinking* I Bet It's Such Info You've Heard Before.
Apparently back in a random Silver age comic, Killer Moth had plastic surgery to masquerade as Bruce Wayne and even found out he was Batman. Now I really wish Moth would’ve been Hush instead of Bruce’s never mentioned before childhood friend
Batman: [thinking] Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... ...and deep down, I'm not. Linkara: [as Batman] I never put the cart away after loading my groceries. Me: ...Batman, I'm sorry, but you can't shop at my store anymore. XD
I feel like what happened with Jeph Loeb is easy enough to explain; his son died, and he never really came to proper terms with that. All of his worst material for Marvel was produced in the brief time afterwards and it carries the marks of ugly grief, presenting a bleak world because that’s how he must have felt. I actually read somewhere that he intended to retire from comics, but was brought on by Quesada, convinced to do the Ultimates stuff. I don’t know how accurate that is, but it explains a lot. The man just was not in the headspace to work properly
@@tomhur1 Which is ironically funny or tragic depending how you look at it given how much crap Nova Sam Alexander has gone through in comics to the point, according to Tv Tropes, his fans have the motto of "Being Sam Alexander is suffering"
Yeah, I had a look at when his son died and it looked like he was still working, only briefly stopping when his son died. I can understand why as he probably thought that if he kept working, he would keep his mind of it but of course, it really affected his work. Like Ultimatum or all the seasons of Heroes after season 1 was clearly written by a man who really should've taken time away to grief and recover. And yes, I know that the writers strike was also one of the reasons Heroes suffered so bad but Leob's mind was also part of it.
I mean, I don't know anything about the comics industry, but is there a reason why he couldn't take time off to grieve? I'm sure that Marvel could've had someone else take over while Loeb processed what he was going through?
@@Kaltagstar96 I don't think it was a problem off him leaving. I think it was more a problem off him not wanting to leave. Think there have been situations where a writer took time off because of personal issues. I think both him and the editors thought that this would a good way to cope and it backfired spectacularly.
That rant about Batman killing the joker… kinda made me think about the Batman story I’ve always wanted to see. (And hope someone has written at some point) Batman facing a dark reflection of himself… one who shares in his goals, and is his equal in skill… but lacks that morality. Who shares in wanting to take down crime, to prevent needless suffering like what happened to him as a child, but DOES hold that view that “refusing to kill someone like the joker would just be enabling him to do more harm, and thus only harming my mission.” And thus is fully willing to kill their opponents. Really force Batman to question if his desire to hold onto his morality is a selfish desire, one that allows more suffering to occur at the hands of his villains who keep getting to live. That’s kinda the story I’ve always said “if I get to write Batman, this is the story I would write.” Has anyone beaten me to the punch on that?
@@turtleanton6539 true… but the difference is all of those actually have different motives than Batman, despite being vigilantes. Azreal was a puppet for the Leauge of Shadows Red Hood was fueled by hatred & a personal vandetta. And the Phantasam was motivated by revenge. What I’m looking for in this regard is a character without those kind of smokescreens that make them much easier to be written off as just a “bad guy” Someone who’s shares in Batman’s beliefs, goals & motives… just not his morals.
@@TheDreadyGamer And to really enhance that point he’s *controlled* in who he kills. A common thug with money problems? He just reprimands. But a serial r&p1s+ who takes sick pleasure in what he does? He snaps his neck without a second thought. And of course everytime he is forced to kill, he takes a minute to mourn and contemplate what he just did. In others words, a character who isn’t against killing but takes no pleasure in doing it.
I've never understood the whole "Why has Batman never killed the Joker?" thing that people gripe about. Batman doesn't kill. Simple as that. No, my issue has always been, why hasn't anybody else killed the Joker? Batman writers love to hammer on about how corrupt Gotham's cops are, yet all the times Batman has brought him into custody not a single one crossed the line to cap a notorious cop killer and try to get away with it by claiming he was resisting arrest? Then you have all the Gotham mob bosses he's crossed - none of them had hitmen who could cap a guy who never wears body armor and is always flamboyantly dressed (ie hard to miss in a crowd)? None of them thought it'd be a good idea to hire Deadshot or Deathstroke to take a out a major thorn in their side that wastes their hired goons because it amuses them? Then you have all the other Batman rogues who've A. shown they have no qualms when it comes to killing and B. have been used, betrayed or targeted by the Joker yet have never made a serious attempt to take the guy out. Then you have all the heroes/anti heroes who don't have no kill codes - Vigilante, Red Hood (seriously?! THIS guy actually took till 3 Jokers to ice one?! HOW?!?!), at one point the Helena Bertinelli Huntress would kill iirc, etc - none of these guys thought it'd be a good idea to end the Joker's reign of terror with a double tap to the back of the skull? And finally, Gotham is a crime ridden city in the gun-loving USA. You can't tell me over half the people living there aren't strapped, so how has a notorious homicidal psycho that has a reputation for killing people randomly on a dime just because it makes him laugh not been capped by some nervous and paranoid Gothamite's concealed carry Glock the second he shows his face in public. This is the problem comics have had since the Dark Knight movie came out: when you go out of your way to constantly hammer audiences over the head with how "realistic" you're being, you just draw their attention to the things you can't make realistic when it comes to superheroes, because they're ultimately a wildly unrealistic premise at their core. And ironically, it's that unrealistic larger-than-life, over the top shit that makes them so fun and enduring... when they aren't being written by guys who feel like they have to make them darker and more serious because they have some kind of persecution complex where they think everyone is making fun of them for liking "kid stuff" ie superheroes - and make no mistake, thats exactly what superheroes are, kid stuff. Superheroes are children's power fantasy stories at the end of the day, no amount of grim and gritty realism will ever change that, it just makes the writers who go to further and further lengths to do so (and the audiences they pander to) only look more and more like the cringey, insecure incels they don't realize they're being. Ever since 1985 (although, again, it REALLY took off after Nolan's Dark Knight), the comic book industry's problem has been that its writers have been trying to justify their choice of entertainment medium to a world that, in reality, couldn't care less about their enjoyment of superheroes, and the sooner they realize that and get over it, the better
It's like big heist movies, the amount of Xanatos gambits they have to do are insane and I only use that term with some familiarity, having not really watched Gargoyles enough, but I do want to, if only to get more familiar with that expression, but also because it's a cool series (until season 3)
@@ToHoldNothing speaking of Xanatos Gambit, it was around the time of the Dark Knight when it got to the point with the way people wrote the Joker that everyone of his plans was kind of a Xanatos Gambit, in that no matter what Batman did, Joker had a rationalization for how he had won the encounter. Remember the BTAS days, when Batman would foil a Joker plot and Joker would actually show anger and frustration at being thwarted? And then the Heath Ledger Joker comes along and now he's all, "you may have stopped every element of my plan, but I never really cared about the plan anyways, I was always in this for the showdown with you to be honest lol. Plus I killed a guard in a very gruesome way during my escape before I started my plan, Robin saw something traumatizing during said plan, and your code prevents you from killing me so that means I win, gee ain't I a stinker? Rofl also something something chaos, something something darkness is inside all of us blah blah we'll do this forever darling yadda yadda some other cliche every writer has me say once I'm caught" - seriously, the greatest trick Christopher Nolan ever pulled was turning him into some middle school edgelord's fanfiction Gary Stue and ruined him, but doing it in such a way that every Batman writer since then is now under the misconception that Nolan actually made the character better... Maybe this is too hot of a hot take, but I'm gonna say it - Schumacher was a way better Batman director than Nolan was (Nolan's Two Face was sliiightly better, but thats it). Go ahead, try to change my mind, but remember before you do that Bat-Nipples aren't an argument
@@dmore454 Having seen Joker's behavior in Long Halloween Part 1, which the Nolan trilogy was based on (the comic version, not sure if the animated film took liberties, seems thorough), honestly, it does feel like the writers (Nolan and David S. Goyer, who wrote Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman) wanted to go with a more brutal Joker that's just a psychopath with some elements of complex strategizing in there, like genius and madness are just a hair's breadth away. But with Long Halloween Joker, he was doing it more for fun and was able to think on the fly, which makes more sense anyway if he's a mad genius in that sense. Nolan's Two Face had more depth, I seem to recall Schumacher's was more based on Long Halloween's, but then went in a cartoonish element instead of any version that delves into his psychology, which is way better
@@dmore454 The Joker should have died years ago, period. and maybe revived on a new DC reboot. the whole 'The Joker is the ultimate evil, potentially capable to destroy the world' thing is bad enough, but now we got stuff like the Batman who laughs which is this whole thing turned up to eleven. basically turning the Joker into the incarnation of chaos and inevitability in a figurative sense. the joker now so smart and powerful that he can turn bruce into a literal planet destroyer the moment he dies. the guy is just a clown who kills people, thats it, he doesnt need to be more than that.
@@Marvin06260 I feel the same way - back when they did the New 52 i thought it would've been better if they'd done a clean slate reboot similar to what Marvel's Ultimates was intended to be (where they release a new line of continuity with updated origins and slowly phase out the old continuity books as each of the books' sales reached cancelation levels, and then relaunch said books in Ultimates continuity after their 616 counterpart wrapped up). If DC ever did that, basically make it a hard editorial rule that this Joker will basically be BTAS Joker, and you can never go more than 10% further than the BTAS writers were allowed to go. Any Batman writer that had an issue with the rule gets told, "Well, maybe this new main continuity isn't the right sandbox for you to play in and tell your stories - would you maybe be happier telling your Joker story in the out-of-continuity Vertigo/Black Label/Elsewords lines without as much editorial oversight? Yeah? Good, then go over there, take your weird psycho fantasies with you and be those editors' problem" If I was running DC, once that became the plan then I'd let the writers of the Bat books set in the current continuity (ie the Earth-2 universe to my proposed DC Ultimate continuity) pitch their best Death of the Joker story and pick the best pitch to run with and market the shit out of
I’m gonna say this...his reading of Batman’s inner monologue when he’s attacking Joker. Genuine chills. It’s not loud or over the top gruff. Like Jesus Christ...wow.
This also reminds me of the Poyo episode where the cutaway, instead of a joke, was a chilling narration of the DOOM opening speech. Lewis can deliver some chills in these episodes.
As a teenager, Batman: Hush was one of the first Batman stories I ever read and was one of my favourites. Ever since I started watching this series, I wanted to hear Linkara talk about it. So thank you to the Patreon who requested this review.
@@jmiles86 Istvaanism (named for the Istvaan System Massacres) is the radical belief that for the Imperium to remain strong its trusted secret agents have a duty to start as many fights within, without and beyond its borders as possible. Needless to say they really get on with the Orks.
Gundam Wing is basically World War 1 as a mecha anime, including the overall naivete of the world in regards to war and how devastating it can be. Treize even explicitly uses the phrase "the war to end all wars", as in he believes that if the world experiences a war big enough, it'll make them sick of the thought of ever going to war again.
I like that the conflict between Bruce and Selina is trust. Rather than the movie making it about his no-kill rule. Like, I get it, one of Batman's most dramatic and complex traits his his no-kill rule. But there's plenty of other things to his character. And it fits much better that trust would be his conflict with Selina. Bruce is an overly paranoid nutjob, but Selina also is a thief who has been established time and time again as manipulator and a master of deception. They love each other. But can they trust? Are either of them willing to change? It's good stuff.
50:31 What I find more impractical are the crazy motorcycles her and Catwoman are on. How do you even turn them? You could argue it's faster to lean them than turn, but we see Catwomans' has a flat front wheel, meaning it's designed to stay upright. In fact, what are the thingies on the back of huntress' even supposed to do?
There was an arc in I want to say Shadow of the Bat in the '90s where Joker was finely convicted of a capital crime and found guilty and sentenced to death. Bruce does not think it fits digs and finds that indeed for the crime he was convicted of Joker was framed.
James Gordon Jr tried to kill his and Barbara's mother with Joker Venom and frame him for it. Compared to most of the villains with gimmicks he's a normal serial killer.
The game Thomas and Bruce are playing is most likely "Little Wars". Is the precursor of tabletop games like Warhammer and other miniature wargames. But instead of fantasy and sci-fi, you got Napoleonic era armies.
Having gotten into tabletop in the last few years (admittedly via 40k, more specifically the skirmish-level Killteam) I'm actually kinda surprised the sheer depth of the tabletop genre is. You got historicals, alt historicals, hell you can turn your matchbox cars into minatures, and there's all sorts of rulesets that are out there as well from basic D6s to ones like the FFG Star Wars ones that use very specific dice and measuring methods.
18:49 “Bruce, I don’t like you in that way” “Oh, Sorry….” Also 42:17 When I read the comic, I always thought Joker noticed the plastic surgery, thinking it was someone else he recognised, but only at that moment did he connect the dots and realise “Oh my god, that’s TWO FACE?!”
That would fit the Joker's bizarre memory. He honestly could not recall Barbara Gordon when they met face to face once as he's the classic "you can't possibly expect me to remember every person I've killed, maimed or ruined."
Marvel brought Deadpool as their version of Deathstroke, DC made Harley their version of Deadpool, and Gwenpool became Marvel's version of Harley. All that remains is for Punchiline to become DC's version of Gwenpool, and the circle will be complete.
I do kinda like stories from that weird time where the crime families were being supplanted by supervillains. Video killing the radio star and all that
ironically house of hush actually explores that, at least the mentality of the time, showing how the changing times affected the old school gangsters as well as how they clash with the more modern supervillains, and how some criminals attempted to reinvent themselves to keep up with the times (doctor death) etc It's a good comic, just not a good 'hush' story, it's not even REALLY about him, his ultimate role in the story is admittedly very small despite getting some good moments with him.
You know the opening made me kind of think, I'd be super down to watch a list video of Linkara talking about his favorite story lines from the big 2, or really any comic series he likes. We already know that the Technis Imperative is his absolute favorite but I'd love to see what the other 9 or 14 are. Gonna add some thoughts here as I rewatch the episode. This one might have my favorite "Over there" bit yet. I love the idea of Alfred and Bruce gossiping about superhero couples and comparing ships. It's just hilarious to me. The whole tangent about Batman and killing the Joker is so on point especially the bit about the writers making the Joker more and more of a monster.
I feel like the biggest strength of conventional crime families is that they add variety and make the super villains more impactful in contrasting them with more "realistc" antagonists.
26:15 Okay this was so funny. Like I have watched this video more a couple times and its not even like a complex joke. Linkara's delivery is just so good and always makes the videos amazing.
I can't argue that some of these writers do need to learn when characters, especially villains, need to be retired. Heck, that's why Limbo is full of guys in silly outfits at this point, because writers used to know that, and would actually create one off villains, even if they didn't die, they weren't the Joker, Lex Luthor, Obadiah Stain, Deathbird, Thanos, or dozens of others who have reasons the heroes won't kill them, and the system can't kill them(The Joker is a stretch, but no jury could reasonably convict him for death if the lawyer went with the insanity defense because...well, Joker), the others are just too powerful, or too well connected for the system to put them down. But some random shyster like this? Let him have his shining moment, let him 'inspire' others to his greatness, and then kill them. Heck it's why I liked some of the animated versions more, because they could do that with big villains, show them off, let them have their moment, and then shuffle them off forever. Not everyone can break out of a prison, even if they live, and even then, not everyone's going to be crazy enough for another go round. Sometimes, the best ending for a character is, there's no more stories to tell about them, and that's something writers need to relearn.
Linkara: *Posts Batman mystery story at 3 A.M.* Me: I don't need sleep, I need answers. Edit: Personally I like Jason eventually rejoining Batman, not only is it a redemption for Jason (especially after he was killed by his fan base, supposedly) but like you said, crawling outta the pit DRIVES ONE INSANE! He kinda had an excuse for not being morally sound at the time. All the BS killing after his redemption I can't defend tho. Edit 2: Personally I call his situation "The Venom Effect." Where a character starts off as a hated subject, gets turned into an awesome villan, but then a massive popularity spike convinces writers to turn said character back into a hero. Afterwards you got two camps, those who love them as irredeemable villans, and those who love him as a tragic hero seeking redemption. Both sides are fitting, but the transition from one side to the other always leaves a fan-war in its wake...
I don’t love Jason Todd as either. I personally wish he stayed dead, or had gotten killed again when he went on his murder spree. Also, Jason Todd never had a redemption. All that happened was the new 52 just made him an antihero with no logic or reason, just fans love him so make him a good guy. He was a straight up villain until that point (countdown not withstanding) .In the Batman books right before new 52, he planted bombs on the Gotham metro so Batman wouldn’t follow him as he escaped. Yeah he was never redeemed. These days I just pretend he doesn’t exist. The fact that people crap on Batwoman for “disgracing the symbol” by Killing clayface and yet turn around and watch Jason machine gun people to death while wearing the bat as well and cheer him on grinds my gears
28:11 I'll do you one better. Harley has a romance with Green Goblin. Not even kidding. Watch _I'm a Marvel, and I'm a DC._ It's hilarious, heartwarming, and heartbreaking.
I saw the animated version first, and didn't really have an issue with it. having the random new character turn out NOT to be the secret villain was a much more interesting twist I felt.
(30 minute mark... ish) Ooooo! An opportunity to give my two cents about the "Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker?" debate, one that I always find frustrating. I like to redirect the question. Why hasn't Gotham killed the Joker? There is not a single person in the entire damn city that benefits from Joker's existence, not even the people that work for him. He is constantly killing indiscriminately, including law enforcement, regular civilians, and criminals. You are telling me that none of them decided it was time to execute him? No criminal decided that Joker was too much of a wild card? No pissed off officer decided to shoot him the second they got a minute alone with them without Batman around to stop them? No judge decided that he wasn't worth rehabilitating and have his death sentence expedited? Lets face it, with Joker killing so many people and with Batman so frequently succeeding in capturing him and humiliating him, the only reason he isn't dead is because the writers don't want him to be.
Honestly, they should tone down the Joker and make him commit theatrical over the top crimes again. When was the last time the Joker robbed banks or tried to turn all of Gotham's water into pudding? The Joker stories I heard these days are Joker kills lots of people or Joker goes after a Batman supporting cast to hurt/kill them just to make Batman break his code. Just making the Joker a serial killer doesn't make him fun. It makes him predictable, boring and too close to reality. And when the Joker is boring, you know something went wrong.
Something I've been wondering in recent years, Batman says he'll never kill the Joker, but what's stopping the U.S. government from doing so? Instead of sending the Joker to Arkham, why not give him a ride on "ole sparky". Whats stopping the the CIA from having a sniper put a bullet through his temple? Or even another supervillain? Joker has pissed off enough other villains that one of them should have hired Deadshot by now.
That's the problem with the whole "Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker" scenario the writers love to bring up. Eventually, people want other folks to kill the Joker, ones with no moral code and thus would not allow the Joker to win in death. And the writers have to make more explanations for why the Joker doesn't killed by other means or just simply get the electric chair. Ranging from Joker was framed for a crime he didn't commit to the Joker has toxins to make other people into Joker if he dies to the Joker is not evil because he's insane (even though he can tell right from wrong) to Batman intervening for some contrived reason to Gotham City being a supernatural abomination that spews more Jokers or something like that. Clearly, if people are seeking for others to kill the Joker rather than Batman, it means they are sick and tired of the Joker. Especially "Kill lots of people to piss off Batman enough to kill me" portrayal they've been doing for the character. He's no longer funny anymore, just another boring serial killer.
Really with Jason he either needs to continue as an anti-hero/villain, killing and at odds with the bat family, but possibly still doing what he thinks is right/necessary, or the culmination of Morrison's Batman should have seen him totally abandon killing and truly play by the rules, but unfortunately we had Outlaws at the same time so that didn't happen. He could keep up being Red Hood as like a Matches Malone type deal, which might be what Red Hood Outlaw was doing, but after Incorporated he should have either been with the family as Wingman, or at odds with them as Red Hood.
Honestly this is the world of comic books so there's a lot of wiggle room to have Jason still use guns and *not* kill anyone. The idea I had being specialized pistols that shoot little devices that cause someone to "lock up" for a while, keeping them immobile but alive
“Bland, interchangeable and unmemorable” is EXACTLY how I’d describe the Gotham mobsters, have to totally agree with you there. This includes Black Mask who gets points for having a super villain LOOK and nothing else
This is one of the first Batman stories I’ve read and still love it a lot. While the ending is a bit lackluster and Hush has had diminishing returns over time, one Hush element from his later appearances I like is him trying to steal Bruce‘s identity; if that had been the endgoal for Elliot in this story already I think it would have made for a better conclusion.
Hes talking to himself. Lonely people do that waaay too often, we talk to ourselves as a way to have someone to listen even if that someone, is just ourselves. Him talking to himself denotes that he has separated himself so much from the world that in his void there is only himself, the only person he can rely for company the only ears that will listen to him.
Hush: "What are...friends for?"
Superman: "Hey Bruce there's a creepy man standing on the adjacent roof spying on us with binoculars and repeating everything we say suspiciously. Presumably he's unaware I have super hearing and telescopic vision."
Hush, hurriedlyr running away: shit shit shit shit shit
@@sarafontanini7051 XD that image is hilarious, also Hush must have super hearing too if he could hear that he was found out lol
@@LordPyro25 or he can read lips
@@Rassilon42Omega Oh, yeah that makes sense that Hush could read lips
*Curb Your Enthusiasm credits here*
Harvey Dent: "Two-Face is gone."
15,633 people, simultaneously: "I'm One-Face now."
I rewatched that video and I find it funny that even Linkara got the quote wrong. It’s ‘You can call me One-Face now.’
@@notmyrealname453 We really gotta preserve the integrity of that iconic line.
tgey hate him for being a bat!
I like to imagine during this entire story, the Penguin was just working at The Iceburg Lounge, not noticing anything. At one point, he looks up and thinks, "Huh, quiet week," and then goes back to business.
alternatively:
Riddler: hey, I have this plan to ruin batman
penguin: like all the other ones?
Riddler: yeah but I got it all worked out, you see, I
Penguin: not interested
Riddler: you didn't even hear it!
Penguin: indeed. If I'm going to kill the bat, I'm doing it MY way
Riddler: Look, I got everyone onboard! Poison Ivy, Joker, Scarecrow....
Penguin: Oh yes, now I'm even LESS interested. Now, get the hell out
Riddler: ...you'll regret this.
and then penguin just had a party that week
@@sarafontanini7051 Maybe he was salty he never got even invited when he found out Everyone except Bane got invited to this.
Probablyeven tried to team-up with Bane as the ultimate attack towards the Bat and alongside other famous or other B-Lister members among Batman's rogues gallery that weren't invited
Who could Penguin have tried to recruit aside of Bane? Black Mask? Mr. Freeze? Mad Hatter? Clock King? who else?
@@ianr.navahuber2195
Man-bat, Calendar Man, Scarface.
i liked to think he had a poker night and could not attend and every other villain was their doing another bet of who almost got the bat good for them since if killer croc was their he would have won with a pretty big rock
@@bluehero-96 Calendar Man is an over rated c-lister. Bane and Penguin are A-listers at their best.
To all those asking about Superman not noticing Hush, there's a simple answer to that:
Hush was _over there_ and over there has to take care of itself.
what is this in reference to? I've seen Linkara use it a few times but must've missed the episode where it originated.
@@EX7Sonic Superman #701. Also known as Superman: Grounded.
There's a simple explanation for that!
@@TheMaestroMizerous Because poor situational awareness is KEWL!
A quote I like about Batman: "Would your Batman comfort a scared child? If yes, you have Batman. If no, you have the Punisher in a silly outfit."
Mine definitely comforts a scared child. My Batman is very much human, he's not overpowered. He makes mistakes and is kinda clumsy during his first and second year, but he learns.
Oh hey, OSP.
In 'The Long Halloween' Batman brings Grundy a Thanksgiving dinner. I knew there was a reason it was my favourite Batman story.
Not necessarily on the 'Punisher' point. Frank Castle WHEN WRITTEN PROPERLY can be a very intriguing character, the reason he became 'the Punisher' is because of the murder of his wife and children, would he comfort a scared child, depends on the writer, but when written properly he probably would because of how he would imagine his own children being as they died in his arms. Sadly many writers go down the 'Grimdark' angle with the punisher.
@@calumbishop7082 - Agreed. I could totally see the Punisher comforting a scared child. Hell there was a whole movie with it (the Dolph Lundgren one).
That line about Clark being a good guy deep down, while deep down Bruce isn't has always been one that's driven me nuts. It's like: Bruce, you have three adopted sons, a biological son you took in without so much as questioning it, you don't kill, and if any of your rogues asked for therapy and help you would move heaven, earth, and hell to make sure they got it. Tell yourself you're a bad man all you want, but the truth is deep down you're a bigger boyscout than Clark Kent will ever be and you're just lying to yourself to keep that cowl on your head.
He’s in such denial it’s funny in a fucked up sort of way.
Better than writers making him an arrogant, holeir than though jackass, certain in his superiority.
@@bthsr7113
Well put, there.
I think that trope comes from how Batman stories are written typically with more moral ambiguity and complexity than the average Superman story (at least from what I’ve seen) and Batman takes on far more real and depraved but ultimately human menaces and takes them out in more… violent means. It’s rare nowadays to find a Batman story where he’s fighting aliens or time travellers, at least in his own comic series, and it isn’t uncommon to find him on the run from the law. Not only that, but there’s the line from The Dark Knight about ‘I’m the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs.’ I do agree that Batman is ultimately a good man, I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s a better person than Superman is, who does have moments of intensity, but it isn’t the norm with his character. But that’s just my opinion.
Actually, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Clark is upstanding and will almost never resort to something "underhanded" unless pushed to the brink. Clark is one of the nicest people on the planet. But Bruce? While he's got an unshakeable moral code, there is only *one* thing he won't do to win. He'll fight dirty, he'll cheat, he'll do whatever needs to be done to win, no matter how messy or dirty it is. The only thing he won't do is flat-out murder someone.
You can see this in what they're associated with. Superman works in the light, and is so associated with light that he draws his power *from the sun.* Superman is hope, he *can't* allow himself to do things that might undermine that hope. But Batman does his work in the dark. He does the things that Superman can't be seen doing. He can get his hands dirty. He won't hesitate to hurt someone, often *severely.* Batman can afford to be feared, even hated. You can see arguably the best example of this in Alex Ross's "Justice", when Batman is interrogating Captain Cold. "No, I'm thinking about your fingers. And how many of them you'd like to keep." And the kicker? He was under the influence of the Lasso of Truth. That wasn't a threat.
That's why they're an unstoppable force when working together. They each make up for the weaknesses of the other.
In that way, Bruce very much is the "bad" to Clark's "good".
" His parents died when he was so young. Shot. Killed right in front of him. He was raised alone. A kid in a huge mansion. With his memories of his mother and father. He had love, and they took it from him. He should be a killer. He should want to tear the world apart for what it did. And yet he took that pain. That shock of death. And he turned it into hope." Superman explaining the perfect reason why Bruce is the hero he is.
Linkara/Superman: "Bruce, this is why fans ship us."
Linkara/Batman: "As long as the fanart always depicts me as the top, it's all good. I'm Batman."
I laughed too much at this one :)
It’s funny cause he’s mostly a bottom in the pairing.
I'd say Bruce would top Clark, but Superman would top Batman.
@@DeathGodRiku I actually think it's the other way around, personally.
@@superemoboi2050 also, it is funnier that way
Fun fact; even the choice of Gianni Schicchi is thematically relevant. The opera's about a family who's father had just died and the son lies about a fake family inheritance.
Nice touch.
Clever hint
@@Mobysimo also, is it just me or does Jeph Loeb love using Poison Ivy? He used her in The Long Halloween too except that she brainwashed Bruce in that issue with the biggest difference being that she uses him for power and not muscle as seen here.
@@lorddrayvon1426
Some writers have their own little quirks when they work on something for a long time.
You know what would've been much better?
If Talia and Ra's heard about Hush and Clayface impersonating Jason Todd and decided to dig up his body and do it for real. That would've made more sense and would require no retcons at all.
The thing that irks me about that being the real Jason is that Batman already knew it wasn't. He would've noticed a random moveset change mid fight
Omg that would have made so much more sense
33:09 "Where was THIS Jeff Loeb during Ultimatum?"
Jeff Loeb's son died of bone cancer in 2005, and from what I can gather it was (understandably) still deeply affecting him and his creative work for the next few years. In hindsight, it makes sense that the main villain in Ultimatum is a parent whose driven to irrational and self-destructive actions by the death of their child. It's what the dude was going through at the time.
Wow, that is really sad and I now feel bad for badmouthing the comic.
Bummer
...damn...
Yeah I remember that
It is sad
Even Loeb named Sam Alexander (the new Nova from Marvel Universe) after his son.
Considering Hush's main motive, I'm surprised he never teamed up with Hugo Strange.
One wants to be Bruce Wayne (or have everything he has, at least).
The other wants to be Batman.
Together, they could wage war on Wayne on two fronts - on both of his personas. There's some quality story potential there I think.
You can Even have them eventually turn against each other when they realize that, to truly be either Batman or Bruce Wayne, they must be both.
Maybe even add recent addition to the batfamily Ghost-Maker, given he is basically a heroic / anti heroic version of what Hush and Hugo Strange want to be, but in a more heroic way as Ghost-Maker just tries to be "More competent than Batman at everything, including saving lives" while also Ghost-Maker is like The Batman straight out of Batman: The Brave and the Bold cartoon, but seeing saving lives more like "a challenge" rather than doing it for the drive to help others
Great idea
Nice build icon, I haven't watched build yet but I want to
The fanfic I’m writing, Beware the Gray Ghost, has an arc that’s like that.
Bruce breaks his back in a car accident (later revealed to be set up by Elliot), so Simon, Dick, Jason, and the rest of the bat fam have to work at protecting Gotham until he recovers.
The full identity of hush goes like this
Thomas Elliot, the sleeper, knows Bruce Wayne personally and can get into his head that way
Hugo Strange, the analyst, was able to decipher Batman’s identity and knows what will affect Bruce from that side of his life
Edward Nigma, the planner, fulfilling a similar role to the new movie and forging the game the bat family must play
To me, the question of "Should Batman kill the Joker?" is a sign that the comic book writers have pushed the Joker to the breaking point of our suspension of disbelief. By default, Batman shouldn't kill his enemies. Just arrest them and let the police and justice system deal with the rest, which often takes them to jail. And then occasionally, have the criminals break out for another conflict with Bats, no questions of continuity. It's why we accept this scenario in other shows like Darkwing Duck or really any superhero based show. It's standard routine of the superhero world.
But the reason why it works is because the supervillains aren't doing anything so heinously evil to make the audience want bigger punishment. Often, in the past, a villain like the Joker would rob banks or remake a city into their own image. It's standard cartoonish villainy that entertains the audience and distracts them from reality. But when the villain does something that hits too close to real life, like say mass murders or harming a hero's loved ones, that is something that cannot be resolved with a trip to prison.
The editors of Spider-Man realized this when Green Goblin killed Gwen Stacy. They knew there was no going back and Norman Osborn had to die in the following issue. Now Spider-Man didn't kill Norman there, but Norman ended up being impaled by his own glider and remained dead for over 20 years. That is a statement to heinous of his crime to the audience.
So when the Joker does something similar to Jason Todd, you expect he suffer the same fate as Norman Osborn. Being killed off for real and not show for decades to come. But no. The Joker did not suffer that fate and because so many people want to top the Killing Joke, they end up giving the Joker more heinous crimes to his name. This lack of punishment for the Joker eventually cast a light into Batman's no killing code, and caused many people to advocate that Batman should kill the Joker because evidentially throwing him to prison isn't enough anymore since he constantly escapes. The suspension of disbelief is broken for many and will remain as such until writers realize this darker interpretation of the Joker has done more harm to the character than helps.
The truth is that the Joker has become less funny, more predicable, and generally more uncomfortable when his crimes bear resemblance to real-world mass shootings and other horrible crimes seeking out attention. I don't recall the Joker doing anything that is over-the-top and campy anymore. Now he just kill lots of people plus Batman's loved ones because it hurts Batman. That's sad interpretation of the Joker. Any killer can do that; Freddy Krueger, Michael Myers, Jason Voorhees, Ridley, Pennywise. The modern Joker wouldn't stand out from them.
Unless I'm mistaken here, I found the addition of Space Pirate lieutenant and murderous space dragon Ridley an odd inclusion alongside the biggest names of horror cinema.
That being said, I'm not against a Metroid/DC crossover where Batman hunts down Ridley. It's not like he'd be out of place in DC canon.
@@TheAwakeOrangutang The reason I thought about Ridley is because in addition to being a murderer, he has sadistic sense of humor that he uses to twist the knife on Samus' trauma.
Him reminiscing about how he killed and eaten her mother is one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.
The inclusion of Ridley (along with Pennywise and Freddy) is to show that even a sadistic sense of humor is not enough to make the Joker stand out from the rest if he's just a killer.
Funnily enough, in a Batman Fanfic I recently read, Joker himself realizes this and finds that he has become kinda stale and unoriginal with this whole Mass Murderer Clown-Thing. And where's the fun in that? So he decides to change his act up to more campy and goofy again.
As he himself puts it in the Story:
"Right now, I'm just becoming another Viktor Zsaz. And who wants to be that Loser?"
@chuckschaaff
I'm an avid reader of ao3 and basically any thoughts you could have exist in a least some capacity.
If you've got something in particular you're interested in I'd be happy to recommend.
@chuckschaaff Sneaking out for Superhero Teenagers: a Guide
White_Tiger94
Is pretty funny, it's about sleep deprived tim drake and some batman+ justice league shenanigans
Linkara: "The nice thing about writing my own rules is getting to decide when I'm okay breaking them."
Me: **glances at the bullet-riddled remains of Top 15 Comics I'll Never Review**
I think that goes without saying.
I'm curious which of those 15 haven't been reviewed yet.
@@ArcCaravan linkara's to do list before quitting at4w.
15.punisher meets archie.
14. marvel zombie(if you don't count longbox of the damned(though i do))
13.batman no 66
12.nextwave:agents of H.A.T.E.(Nextwave: why isn't this a show on disney+?)
11.who wants to be a superhero?
10. Lost girls
9. tarot: witch of the black rose
8. maximum carnage
7. marvel vs dc
4A. motion comics(I don't count black panther 1-6 or anything else he's done that's been adapted into a motion comic. he never reviewed the actual motion comics themselves)
@@changvasejarik62 Teeeechnically I think the last-last of the Silent Hill comics he reviewed was a motion comic. Silent Hill: Hunger I do believe.
@@changvasejarik62 in all honesty, nobody should cover "Lost Girls".
Like, if he ever does cover it, its all he'll be known for later.
honestly when Linkara was talking about Hush's motivation i half expected him to use the TFS clip about Broly's origin
"thats really dumb.....but he's so cool!! but thats SO DUMB!!!"
In all honesty, I feel like Batman’s crime families only work when he’s in his earlier days as the Caped Crusader. It’s a sort of food chain that helps ramp things up to the point where Batman puts less focus on them and more on the supervillains he faces today. It’s something that The Long Halloween balances really well, given that it takes place during Batman’s early-ish years, not long after Year One but still before he’s become the established crimefighter he is.
Agreed
I saw something that said The Long Halloween was sort of a “changing of the guard” for the villains: instead of fighting mobsters and the like he’s fighting the likes of Clayface, Killer Croc and Mister Freeze more frequently.
Well put.
It's my personal theory that the remaining mobsters moved to Bludhaven.
Makes it a strange retelling of The Untouchables, but I’m interested.
I agree, Batman should start out going up against the crime families when he starts his career as the Dark Knight. But eventually have bigger hitters that Batman is more well known for fighting slowly taking over Gotham and driving out the crime families so they can be the ones running the show.
The Batman not killing the Joker thing doesn't bother me. What I find laughably stupid is the notion that, in a city as corrupt and crime riddled as Gotham, in the US, the Joker would not at some point have had a .357 emptied into the back of his head by a cop one of the times that he was captured.
Exactly, or a person looking to avenge their murdered family gunning him down in the streets.
In short: someone would’ve caved his skull in long before now.
Or hell, just legally executed. While I am a FIRM advocat against the death penatly in real life, none of the reasons that make it wrong in real life really apply to supervillains.
-they are undoubtetly guilty
-there is a MASSIVE risk of them breaking out
-they will cause further harm if given the chance
-they are clearly unrepentent
-their harm is on such a massive scale that neither the costs for the death penatly nor the harm by killing one person in any way compares to what they do if continued
Gotham vigilante: Nooo you're not supposed to survive being headshoterino!!!
The Joker: HAHA plot armor goes brrr
@@sebastiankrant2738 This is ultimately why I think it's right that Batman doesn't kill. The voters/state could (and probably should) demand the death penalty. If they don't, it's not up to Batman to decide otherwise.
One thing I will say is the best defense I’ve heard for Batman and other superheroes refusing to kill is: what right does Batman have to kill?
When fans ask for Batman to kill what the are asking for is the glorification of extrajudicial murder. They are asking for Comic book stories where the good guys circumvent the due process of the law and deprive super villains and common criminals of their right to trial.
And the reason why they’re asking for this kind of thing to be glorified is that when fans are asking for stories where Batman kills they’re certainly not asking for stories where Batman kills a completely innocent person he wrongly suspected of having committed a crime.
Despite the fact that when masked vigilantes kill people in the real world that’s usually the result.
They want a fantasy world where the kind of violence they want Batman and other superheroes to commit is only committed against “deserving” targets and is thus justified.
Interesting, and also the entire point of Bruce’s character is that he wants to help the people he fights.
yeah he sure helps the joker@@thomasraines1396
What right does batman have to be a vigilante
@@thomasraines1396 yeah, that help totaly leads to results. And Batman is ONLY fighting deserving targets so that counterargument is kind of mute anyway.
Personally I like the idea of Jason being an anti-hero both as a response to his own murder and his hatred of criminals, but also as a reflection/anti-thesis of Batman and his teachings. Basically using his training and skills to take out criminals and control what he can't kill. He's someone who does what he does because he feels it's the only way to take down criminals, but he still has a deep love and respect for his adoptive father. At least that's my take on it. I was only really exposed to Jason as a character via the Red Hood film and I really liked the tragedy of him becoming a dark reflection of Batman haunted by his own death and Batman's seeming inability to avenge him.
The thing is, in that film/comic, Jason is the villain. He's definitely a sympathetic one that makes a some good points. But there's more there than just "kill or don't kill bad guys". It's a lot more personal than that.
Jason doesn't just disagree with Batman. He feels personally offended by him. He feels that by letting the Joker live, Bruce is saying he really doesn't give a damn about him. About anyone.
This is further expanded upon in Red Hold Lost Days (which I hope is reviewed at some point), where the writer of Under the Red Hood basically shows what Jason was up to during the years where he was resurrected to when he finally returned to Gotham.
There are separate points where Jason could kill Batman and Joker and be done with them forever. Rid the world of them and enact his own justice as he pleases. But both times he realized that wasn't enough for him. It's not enough to just clean up Gotham. Or the world. He wants *proper* vindication. He wants to knock Bats off his high horse. Look him in the eyes as he crushes him. Wants to prove he's better.
In short, he's lashing out at a father who he thinks forgot him. And everyone is caught in the crossfire. That's what makes him a villain on his worst days.
I'm okay with the occasional team-up. I like to believe Batman and Nightwing still care about him despite having to fight him. And I do think they made him a little too cartoonishly evil in that Batman run where Dick wore the mantle.
But I still think the sudden sanitization of his character in 2011 hurt the character more than it helped. There's no more tension or stakes when he's around. He's just a less silly Deadpool. An anti-hero without consequence.
I think Linkara’s problem is moreso Batman be willing to associate with somebody who lacks a no kill rule
@@skibot9974 Which, considering Catwoman has killed (and considering Black Mask tortured and killed her brother in-law and tortured her sister, I feel it's understandable Seilna decided to put a bullet in his head), pretty sure Huntress has killed has least once, and most of the Justice League members have killed at least once...yeah, gonna have to disagree with Linkara on that mindset.
@@tylerleach8796 well Linkara mentions in this video he didn’t like Batman still associating with Catwoman after that. Though I don’t know enough about the comics to comment on the Justice League thing
29:48 But see, that's where you're wrong. Turns out Joker's mom was named Martha.
You had to give him flashbacks?
@@atiredfloridian777 If I legally change my mother's name to Martha, does that mean I'm safe from Batman and Superman?
Why did you say that name
@@jadedheartsz Fair enough, there.
@@Valdagast As long as you are trying to save Martha from someone
You know everyone thought Mr. Freeze was lame until Heart of Ice, everyone thought Calender Man was lame until The Long Halloween, everyone thought Kite Man was lame until The War of Jokes and Riddles. Someday One Face is gonna be Batmans most nuanced and complex villain and his origins movie will win DC another Oscar.
Calender Man is still lame. They just copied someone else and kept the calender bit.
@@michaeliv284 you mean Clock King or Hanable Lecture.
I would say that Calendar Man remained lame with The Long Halloween.
It made him a loser behind bars.
I would say Dixon did far better for him in the 80 page giant where Dixon explores his obsession for dates and events.
As for Kite Man that War of Jokes and Riddles is utter crap, the guy decided to take the mantle of the object that KILLED his son in order to honor him? Shouldn't Charlie have taken as gimmick literally EVERYTHING ELSE but kites when he knows that his son was killed by a kite? So dumb
@@niccoloproia3678 well he's getting his own show so obviously Tom King did something right.
@@leephillips4402 what kind of logic is this? Kite Man got a spin-off show from the Harley Quinn's animated series.
What this has anything to do with King's use of Kite Man in the War of Jokes and Riddles?
33:54 Despite being a criminal, Catwoman is a thief, not a killer. This is the one reasons why Batman have feelings for her. With the exception of Black Mask she never killed anyone and consider how Selina knows Batman well, I don't she would want to see him becoming a monster and losing his humanity and compassion.
Context for people in the future: DC veto'd a scene in the Harley Quinn cartoon where Batman "goes down" on Catwoman. Internet had a field day with it.
That will always be funny
Further context? The reason they gave was "superheroes don't do that kind of thing." which made what was sure to be ripe mockery even more ripe.
@@the-aspiring-creator4249 the fan art that came from that is a static and fanfiction
@@anarchomando7707 No offense but I didn't catch that. What do you mean by "that is a static and fanfiction"?
@@the-aspiring-creator4249 fan art and fanfiction were great
That was a typo
Other reason Batman isn't responsible for not killing the Joker. Every single time Joker is captured he would be arrested and tried. And every single time he is sent to an Asylum instead of being sent to a prison, or executed. People forget the second reason Batman doesn't kill. Its not his job. Batman isn't Judge Jury and Executioner, he's the policeman. Batman catches the Joker and gives him to the court system to deal with, who then offscreen fail to do anything.
It's legit amazing some rookie cop hasn't just shot him by now.
Further addition... when the IRS came after the Joker after another criminal successfully played a prank on him... Joker did what he could to NOT break tax law
As the Joker knows he'd get sent to real jail by the IRS
Joker literally CHOOSES to do stuff that will get him into Arkham, so that he can keep doing stuff
@@NimhLabs Not to mention, whilst the Joker is an absolute monster, he's only one of Gotham's big issues. If he got arrested for killing the Joker and lost favour with law enforcment, anyone from the Penguin to the Marconi's could take over Gotham. Sure there's the rest of the Batfam but they're either usually in another city, with the Titans, dead/presumed dead/paralysed/brainwashed with the ability to write Navajo or they're a dog.
@@christopherbennett5858 We... We don't talk about the little Navajo incident. It was absurd then, it is now. Didn't happen, Cass is and will always be a hero.
...If only :(
@@pabloosset2533 I know. I just hope one day people can look back on it and laugh. Still, that sucked that they did that to Cassie.
I love your speech about why Batman shouldn't kill the Joker. It's one thing if someone dies in a fight for your life, or falls off a roof and you're unable to save them. But actual murder? That's a step Batman shouldn't take. Like Sam Vimes from Discworld says:
"I'm not a natural killer! See this? See what it says? I'm supposed to keep the peace, I am! If I kill people to do it, I'm reading the wrong manual!"
Loved this episode btw.
Reminds me of a line from Persona 5 Strikers:
“If we have to stoop to the level of the bad guys to protect people, then being a hero is pointless.” I might have the wording mixed up, but that is essentially what is being said
I also agree with Linkara's take on why the Batman shouldn't kill the Joker. Just be careful reading fanfiction though. There readers beg the authors to kill the Joker if he is in the story. Like seriously.
I agree too. If anything, some of Batman's enemies or just the government alone should kill Joker, not Batman himself. Along with innocent lives in general, it's costly to keep Joker alive; for criminals it should go without saying that his actions cost them more money that they could make of the explotation of civilians and simple government corruption.
I like sparing the Joker being about staying trusted by others alongside basic morality, and it being pointed out Batman is no more responsible for Joker's crimes than everyone who could've but didn't kill him.
What's funny to me is how much he has changed since the Golden Age in that regard. Four different times that I know of, he killed someone. The guy in Detective Comics #27, a bank robbery in DC #28 who he kicked off a roof, #29 when he accidentally burnt a guy to death, #30 when he kicked a guy so hard on a batrope swing that he snapped his neck, and #31 (granted that was a goddamn vampire). Times change massively.
Honestly, even though i didn't like Hush as a villain, i find nothing wrong with his motivation. Yeah, it's simple , but it's also realistic. Not every Batman villain needs to be an almost-sympathetic figure with severe mental trauma and a sad backstory; some of them can be just jerks who want to be rich.
That's why, even though most people hate the 'Terrible Trio' episode from the animated series, I found it rather insightful, as they were just rich jerks getting a thrill out of committing crimes because they were under the assumption that their money could get them out of any legal trouble they might face.
personally I like hush, even though I only read two stories featuring him (this and house of hush being the other, which granted wasn't REALLY a hush story so it was a bit of a waste of the character).
He's certainly a better 'evil foil to bruce wayne' than say prometheus or some such
It arguably makes their villainy more chilling than some of the others. All of that... for cash.
I wouldn't say its the case that there was something wrong with Hush's motivations, just that it was not good enough for a story this good, and was WAY below the kind of interest there was in the idea of Hush being Jason Todd. "Greedy kid who was just pissed off that he failed to kill his parents and taking it out on Bruce" is a HUGE step down from "Former sidekick coming back from the grave".
Agree. Tommy being Hush could work as villain if the story showed dark moments where we, the readers, see his dark side, his abusive relationship with his parents and his slowly increase hate towards Bruce, maybe even some little hints.
A good exemple of this type of mystery done well is in Mask of the phantasm, where the flashbacks show Bruce relationship with the antagonist but also hints about the phantasm life and reasons behind the death of the victims.
Ari S. Tottle is the most underrated Batman villain.
Yes truly
He so underrated is not real
And his wife Aeris Tottle.
Lol 😂 indeed
@@seanomalley6507 and his second cousin three times removed Plue Lark.
the "batman won't go down on catwoman" joke will never stop being old, and I hope people NEVER forget it
They're comic fans. On the internet.
Lewis' great nieces and nephews will be told about it the way we're told about all the insensitive/stupid comic stories from the gold and silver ages.
To this day, I still don't understand that shit. "Batman doesn't like bringing pleasure to the person he is with." is a weird take and makes no logical sense.
@@casteanpreswyn7528 I think whoever the higher up at DC was who heard of the joke forgot that Harley Quinn is an adult cartoon :/
@@vcom741
Adult cartoons DEFINITELY do that.
(Not very well at times, but still.)
@@bthsr7113 Lewis has siblings?
“Where was this Jeph Loeb during Ultimatum”? He had watched his beloved son die slowly of cancer. I’m more than willing to forgive Loeb for telling some grim, depressing, messy stories after losing his son. If anything, I wish he had been allowed to take a sabbatical from the biz in general…it’s clear that the loss of his son was devastating.
May his son rest in peace.
And...the representational issues on TV shows he's produced...?
@@christopherb501 Are a systemic problem in the television and film industry as a whole and not one man. It also has nothing to do with the quality of his writing so why are you bringing it up?
@@danielleasewala2225 Look up quotes and personal accounts; the man has issues beyond just what we see in comics, and while yes, these are systemic ones overall, stuff is still happening on his watch and from him directly.
@@christopherb501 Cool. Great. He's a shit person then I guess.
Shame that the original comment was about his writing ability and quality and not him as a person. Thus again, how does this effect the completely justifiable statement in the original comment?
Haha, "Ivy's plans come to *fruition*..."
I just caught that. Love it.
"killed black mask after some horriffic things he did to her friends.....and now I'm iffy about Bruce's continued association with her." First of all, the horrific things Black Masks were:
1. torturing Selina's brother-in-law in front of Selina's sister, and then fed her dead husbands eyeballs to her, before continuing to torture said sister until she wound up retreating into a catatonic state
2. Murdering the father (Slam Bradley Jr.) of Selina's then unborn child right in front of her
3. Having no qualms about murdering various orphaned street kids (the Strays) that Selina has under her protection.
"horrific things done to her friends" is a massive, massive, massive understatement.
Second: By that logic, he should disassociate himself with Jim Gordon, who has killed multiple people. I'm usually against superheroes killing, but imo what Selina did was a far cry warranting being cut out of Bruce's life. Hell, I don't see you arguing he should cut Zatanna or the other heroes behind the mind wipe out of his life, which in my opinion, is akin to rape.
Fair enough points.
After that Grim Dark parade, it would be hard to not understand and empathize with killing Black Mask.
Ya i think its one thing for Batman to live up to his own high morals, but i think it would be asking A LOT that he would expect everyone else to live up to those same high morals.
Really, I think that just highlights the whole problem Linkara spoke about in the review with writers trying to constantly up the stakes on how monstrous they can make the supervillains. I get all the reasons for not having superheroes kill, but it's hard to gel that with a world where Joker's probably one of the greatest mass murderers in history who's gotten his hands on nukes several times, Black Mask is running his own personal Saw film franchise, and so on. It just leads to fundamentally broken storytelling when the villains are full grimdark, and nothing's really being done to stop them.
@@chengarqordath Yeah when you have Joker basically being Hannibal Lecter...you kinda need to reassess where that line is. I remember somewhere before they went off the deep end with New52 I had seen a comic of Joker having staged a riot in Arkham, offing people left and right, cutting off peoples hands, throwing the hands in deep fryers and wondering how much further they could go...and then they did. I kinda stopped reading comics quite some time before that just for these sorts of reasons and I'm not seeing anything now that makes me want to come back into modern comics. I'll stick to TPB's older GOOD works, thanks.
My Grandma and I loved this show, and we watched this one together a few weeks ago. My Grandma passed away a few hours ago. Thank you for all the fun, Lewis. RIP Barbara M., 1943-2021.
You know, with all injuries he’s sustained to his head in this story, it’s a wonder Bruce didn’t turn into Crazy Steve.
Maybe All star Batman and Robin is DC's what if storyline if his head injury caused him to go insane
With all of the injuries he sustained, it's a wonder he's even _alive._ I'm with Waller, he absolutely _has_ to be a meta.
Please don't joke about that.
Read Batman:R.I.P. to meet his "back up persona", the Batman of Zur-En-Arh, THEN you'll see crazy!
@@RabblesTheBinx Everyone's a meta
If you put Joe chill in a real world prison he would take it over because he simply lives in a world where everyone is built different With Lazarus pits another bull c*** in the soil the water is probably contaminated with super power juice
Catwoman trying to stop him makes sense to us at least. She's not stopping him because she has a moral objection to killing. She's stopping him because she knows he has a moral objection to killing so she knows he would regret it.
Indeed. Those are pretty much the words she utters. She doesn't care about the Joker and has, in fact, tried to kill him more than once but knows for a fact that if Batman did he'd end up regretting it one way or the other. She's not trying to save Joker, she's trying to save Batman.
This!!!!!!! The entire point of BatCat is that they come from opposite sides of the tracks as the saying goes. Bruce was born into everything, Selina was born into nothing. Both became orphans at a young age. Bruce had Alfred to help him through it. Selina had no one. Selina didn’t have the luxury of of sticking to certain morals as every day was a fight to survive. And yet despite that divide they understand each other. Selina knows that if Bruce killed the Joker, he would never forgive himself. And if that happened, she’d never forgive herself. They genuinely care about each other. And that will never go away
Nah not even then.
@@CaptainEnglehorn You could even make the argument for why he's more lenient with her actions, like killing Black Mask, as Linkara questioned. Even if he doesn't like what she did, he does understand it because he does understand her, or at least make an effort to do so.
This makes a lot of sense :) also deathpigeon is a wonderful username
A comment on the ending:
1. I love how Riddler literally does the "Finger up, finger down" meme. My only disappointment is that his line in the next panel isn't "Shit, you've got a point there."
2. I may be an outsider to the greater Batman lore, but it does seem like gradually, one by one, *all* of Batman's arch nemeses are figuring out his secret. Ra's Al Ghul knew from the start as the one who trained Bruce to become Batman. Scarecrow worked it out through his psychological profile. The Joker has found out multiple times by way of being Batman's closest foil. Now The Riddler solved the puzzle. At some point, I have to wonder if Batman being unmasked wouldn't just be met with a collective cry of "Duh, everybody knows that already!"
I'm pretty sure that the only villain that knows his identity constantly is Ra's... Riddler lost the knowledge at some point as did Hugo Strange.... And I think Scarecrow never knew his identity outside Arkham games. Should Batmans identity become common knowledge realisticaly? Yes, but it wont happen
@@stcsuntzucreed Pretty sure Bane also knows and he definitely knew when Dick was Batman, which was something that most of the others outside of maybe Joker and Ra's didn't. But basically like Joker, Bane doesn't care.
Not entirely sure of everyone myself, but Joker has known Batman's identity since Endgame (no, not that one), and Two-Face seems to be aware as well (or rather, Harvey Dent knows, but not Two-Face). Of course, Ra's and Bane have known since their first appearances and never lost that knowledge, Catwoman has been an ally for years now, and there's newer villains like The Court of Owls finding out during their debut storyline.
As for the general public, One character (Alfred, I think) said it best: “Guessing that Bruce Wayne is Batman isn't difficult. Proving it is another matter entirely."
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy Agreed, Bruce Wayne turning out to be BatMan is if Will Smith turned out to be a super Tech dude that know all material arts and more in the eyes of civilians or based on some continuities, it would be some C/D List Celebrity being what I described.
Not to mention technology nowadays would make it easier to deduce that Bruce and Batman are the same. Back in the day, it was harder to do, but now it’s very easy to figure it out.
Oddly enough, Batman: Arkham City included one of the best Hush stories by focusing on the "surgeon mummy" part of "surgeon mummy Aristotle-quoter trenchcoat guy with two guns". That Hush doesn't even know Bruce Wayne is Batman, and focuses his ire solely on Bruce, which makes his actions (particularly the face-reconstruction thing) fit his motive better. The Arkham Knight continuation of Hush was a little weaker, but still included a very memorable moment (Batman stunning Hush by unmasking himself).
What I like about that part (especially the Arkham City bit) is that it’s Conroe doing Hush’s voice but he doesn’t sound like Batman until he says “I will not be in such a generous mood”. Which is when you’d think he put two and two together
14:24 "You did eat a cat that one time"
Nonsense! According to DC, heroes don't do that kind of thing.
Thus Batman’s inevitable confrontation with the tick.
But Alfred isn't a hero. He's a butler.
@@changvasejarik62 *SPOOOOON!*
DC: Batman can fuck Batgirl on a roof while a gargoyle either excitedly looks on or is shocked by what it's seeing but he can't eat out Catwoman.
@@Xehanort10 After learning about how Gwen Stacy banged The Green Goblin, I am staring to think some people in theses medias have some problems that need sorting out.
39:28
"Word under the street is that you're seeing Catwoman."
I just love this idea of supercriminal gossip.
'And I heard that Batman like... totally made out with Catwoman.'
'Oh mah, gawd, no way!'
All the supervillains and goons just exchanging rumors about who hooked up with whom. Having like little meetings where they exchange gossips.
That's kind of what the episode "Almost got 'im" in the animated series was, and it was an excellent one.
I like this comic ending with Bruce's trust issues messing up his relationship with Selina but the promise that someday, after the necessary character development, they'll make it work
I *don't* like the fact that it seems like *every* BatCat story these days ends with a less good version of that
Yeah. By this point DC should just allow them to get married already or just have Batman and Catwoman as allies (or enemies) and allow Batman to move on and find a new love interest. Even characters like Superman and Lois don't play the whole "will they won't they" troop along time ago.
Seconded. I really don't like it either. It's starting to get to the point that it's up there next to "Overuse of the Joker" as things about Batman books that irk me.
The “will they won’t they?” shit sells more.
That's actually one of the things I liked about Tom King's run (at least, the first half). The BatCat engagement felt like the payoff for that final scene in Hush. I know the wedding ended the way it did, but I also think that City of Bane ended positively for the pairing.
Granted, I can't remember what their current status is nowadays. Just as long as Tyrion doesn't add a new love interest like The New 52 kept doing.
@@OverlyPositiveFanboy I don't think he will, specially since his first arc ended with Batman and Catwoman going on their seperate ways to solve their own issues but promising that they will be together by the end of the year.
I totally get the apathy to Gotham's crime families, but I think they get a pass in stories that show them dying out. Like in Long Halloween it's all about the Falcone family getting wiped out which imo helps build the world where now it's mainly super villains
That is definitely one of the best parts of Long Halloween. I love the 2-page spread with all the villains chilling in Falcone's office. It is just awesome.
Agreed. I feel like Arkham Origins accomplished something similar too.
As a priest in the Church of the Algorithm, I bless this video with a comment.
I bless this comment with a reply, praise be!
@@Fusionater And I bless this reply to a comment with another reply, huzzah!
Praia be
Speaking as a nursing student, telling a member of a trauma patient’s family that everything would be ok is a big red flag. Naturally, child Bruce wouldn’t understand that, but just saying.
Why?
Batman watching the Alan Scott Green Lanturn fighting a supervillain as a kid is a neat little retcon & the fact superheroes existed back before his parents were killed, really goes to show that Bruce becoming a costumed crime fighter makes sense as I'm sure Bruce wished that a hero like Green Lanturn had come along & stopped Joe Chill from killing his parents & thus became the hero Gotham needed! Also, Thomas Elliot being present is ironic as he would one day become a villain that Batman would one day face!
Years later and the Superman "over there" bit still gets me.
Can't believe JMS wrote that garbage.
I get that JMS was going for a personal responsibility for nations with that bit but this is such a simple world view since what "happens over there" will eventually affect "over here" and vice-versa. It baffles me how bad Grounded was since JMS is a fantastic writer. My guess is it's a case of over thinking a story.
Which review was that from? I keep forgetting. Was it #775?
@@genkaiba15 I’m pretty sure it was Superman issue #500 or #501
@@genkaiba15 775 was The Elite,
think that legendarily awful line comes from i think 501, part of Grounded.
@@alexlong9107 *701
Was hoping for a toilet-roll Hush mask to go with the Batman mask, and was disappointed.
Everyone is on a budget.
Waste TP in this economy? That stuff is like white gold
The real question shouldn't be "Why hasn't Batman killed the Joker," it should be "Why does he keep taking him back to a place that he repeatedly and easily breaks out of?" Come up with a better way of keeping him contained for Christ's sake, Bruce, you have advanced technology and billions of dollars, and the resources of the Justice League!
"Jason saw Robin as a game, and that's probably what got him killed."
Or it might have been him being manipulated by his mother who he thought he could save. But sure, whatever, bruce
Yeah, knowing how Jason ended up being tortured to death by the Joker, that was really messed up. I also don’t like the victim blaming that Batman does to Jason Todd with that line, like he is claiming that it is Jason‘a fault that he was tortured and murdered when if you want to blame someone that wasn’t the Joker, I would place more blame on Batman since he was the one who enabled Jason to become the second Robin.
Stories where Bruce blames Jason for Joker killing him piss me off. How is his mother betraying him so Joker wouldn't expose her illegal surgeries that got her patients killed Jason's fault?
@@Xehanort10 Honestly most people (including me) forget about the mom.
As Igarappappa said, the biggest reason stuff like this happens is largely because continuity just, loves to sweep his mom under the rug; on the whole of Batman's timeline it just *appears* extremely insignificant a detail, and people cling to the bigger moments before and after Jason's death.
@@xvelvet3247 Everyone forgets about Joker being an ambassador during that storyline too except to mock it.
Knew it! As soon as Tommy Elliot showed up, my immediate guess was "he's the secret villain." I mean, him "getting killed" did make that dubious, but villains have faked their own deaths before. I think Bleach did something like that years ago. Die as a sympathetic character so nobody suspects you as the villain.
The fact he was introduced in the story that seemingly killed him kind of killed the effectiveness of the red herrings. He was retconed in as an old friend of Bruce, with plenty of flashbacks detailing their new history together. Clearly this character is supposed to be important, and then he dies a few issues after his introduction. Seems like a lot of effort to put into the character if his sole purpose was just to die and have is death almost convince Bats to kill Joker.
I think the reveal would have worked better if Tommy had been introduced earlier. Have him exist as a recurring character for a while, with him and Bruce hanging out in the present day to flesh out the character more gradually. The death might have fooled more people if he were a character we had known for longer than a few issues. Plus this extra on panel time before his "death" could have been sprinkled with hints of his dark side and parental issues so his motivations seem less out of nowhere.
@@DaPopeANata Yeah, introducing Tommy earlier in unrelated issues would have helped. Alternately, moving the "fractured skill" later in the story would also have helped, as well. Probably made for a more convincing story, too, rather than starting with career-ending injury.
At the very least, though, we could have spent a few issues exploring Tommy's past, hearing from people who knew him and slowly unravelling just how much of a bastard he was, rather than simply being told so in an infodump.
Bleach did it with Aizen, few years after Hush came out if I'm not mistaken
Do you mean the Orochimaru wannabe that was the captain of Squad 3 or whatever the divisions of Soul Reapers were called?
@@stcsuntzucreed Aizen is the one I was thinking of, yes. I didn't mean to suggest that Hush was necessarily ripping off other stories, just... Introducing a flawless, endlessly cheerful old friend out of nowhere is VERY suspicious.
Batman writers like to show Jason's relationship with the bat family as if he was an archetypical "bad boy" someone who batman disapproves of but still loves and keeps around. The problem is that Jason isn't some 16 year old who crashed his dad's car and smokes weed. He's a literal murderer.
Exactly it’s weird.
Funny. I wanted Jason Todd to be Hush but in turn we got Tommy Elliott in this story. Meanwhile I wanted Tommy to be the Arkham Knight in video game and instead we got Jason Todd. Life is weird .
An hour and 16 minutes of this guy! Ladies and gentlemen, get the pretzels and soda!
But Elliot is a fascinating idea:
He's a Batman Fanboy.
In the extreme.
He's resentful that he couldn't be the rich, mysterious, super-badass.
He's jealous that someone else became that man.
And he hates that Bruce got what he wanted.
Tommy even went so far as to want his parents to die, and Bruce beat him to that, too.
There's actually a villain like that, but he's some kid who calls himself Master Bruce.
He's the Superboy Prime of Batman.
Batboy prime, if you will.
Yeah. the ultimate Batman wannabe. alongside probably Hugo Strange.
It would be interesting trying to have him imitate Bruce, even trying to be a crimefighter, but neveractually getting or even understanding why Bruce does it
Having his own Robin and outright KILLING Criminals because "that's what batman does, doesn't it? i will do it right".
It could even be a contrast to the recent addition of Ghost-Maker who is like Bruce's friendly rival but still seeing saving lives as "Yes! I saved more lives than you did Bruce! in your face!" and basically "Tommy Elliot / Hush if he tried to go anti-hero"
So he is Thawne but not very good?
That's all stuff you're just reading into the story. It's nothing that's part of this story. What you just described sounds more like "the wrath" a character who was literally created just to be the anti-batman.
Maybe off-topic, but Viga went the fůquè off with the title card, it looks lovely
It is always the right time to praise Viga's art
Fun Fact: Check His Channel, He's a Fan Of "Beastars", so we maybe see refs to that in ATFW soon, that and knowing his Patreon, he'll even review some of it in the meantime. i bet someone can Patreon request it soon, and knowing this video, it'll also become an long one. (with diffs in both the adaptation and the source also being shown at points.) maybe it is time to try that sometime. *Thinking* I Bet It's Such Info You've Heard Before.
I men it's cool but I always preferred the toony style but that's just my taste
Oh yeah. Her best work so far.
@@alexthejapanfan7905 are you thinking of drcrafty?
Apparently back in a random Silver age comic, Killer Moth had plastic surgery to masquerade as Bruce Wayne and even found out he was Batman. Now I really wish Moth would’ve been Hush instead of Bruce’s never mentioned before childhood friend
But didn't he end up making a Faustian pact to become an actual killer moth monster? Or was that after this story?
@@bthsr7113 I don’t like being reminded that my favorite poorly dressed BatMan villain became a Monster.
Only legit reason for the "giant moon in the sky" trope is so you can read "CHA" more clearly.
Was not expecting to find this reference here, but I’m glad I did
10/10 comment right here. Great job!
I've always though the villain that makes the most sense as the mastermind behind all this is SNOWFLAME!
No, but he fought catwoman one time.
Batman: [thinking] Deep down, Clark's essentially a good person... ...and deep down, I'm not.
Linkara: [as Batman] I never put the cart away after loading my groceries.
Me: ...Batman, I'm sorry, but you can't shop at my store anymore. XD
Agreed. Drives me nuts when people do it at my store too. Batman or not Bruce you’re getting an earful from me on that one
1:03:50
For those wondering about the change, Riddler was both the brains behind the whole operation as well as Hush himself.
Thankfully "Heart of Hush" expands Hush's backstory and makes him more complicated
I feel like what happened with Jeph Loeb is easy enough to explain; his son died, and he never really came to proper terms with that. All of his worst material for Marvel was produced in the brief time afterwards and it carries the marks of ugly grief, presenting a bleak world because that’s how he must have felt. I actually read somewhere that he intended to retire from comics, but was brought on by Quesada, convinced to do the Ultimates stuff.
I don’t know how accurate that is, but it explains a lot. The man just was not in the headspace to work properly
I heard he found some degree of closure when he named Sam Alexander Nova after his son but like you I don't know how accurate that is.
@@tomhur1 Which is ironically funny or tragic depending how you look at it given how much crap Nova Sam Alexander has gone through in comics to the point, according to Tv Tropes, his fans have the motto of "Being Sam Alexander is suffering"
Yeah, I had a look at when his son died and it looked like he was still working, only briefly stopping when his son died. I can understand why as he probably thought that if he kept working, he would keep his mind of it but of course, it really affected his work. Like Ultimatum or all the seasons of Heroes after season 1 was clearly written by a man who really should've taken time away to grief and recover. And yes, I know that the writers strike was also one of the reasons Heroes suffered so bad but Leob's mind was also part of it.
I mean, I don't know anything about the comics industry, but is there a reason why he couldn't take time off to grieve? I'm sure that Marvel could've had someone else take over while Loeb processed what he was going through?
@@Kaltagstar96 I don't think it was a problem off him leaving. I think it was more a problem off him not wanting to leave. Think there have been situations where a writer took time off because of personal issues. I think both him and the editors thought that this would a good way to cope and it backfired spectacularly.
“DON’T WORRY KID! I AM THE NIGHT! GIVE ME A HUG”! God bless you Lewis. 😂
I remember reading Hush and being like "HOLY CRAP SOMEONE REMEMBERED HAROLD FROM THE 90'S BOOKS!"
Flsahforward to a future DC reboot, it will all be retconned so the true mastermind behind the whole thing was...
**Granny Goodness**
LOL!
Ah, my favourite AT4W joke
Dun Dun *DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN*
One-Face?
no! The true mastermind was...
*ACE THE BAT-HOUND!*
Or
*WALLY WEST!*
That rant about Batman killing the joker… kinda made me think about the Batman story I’ve always wanted to see. (And hope someone has written at some point)
Batman facing a dark reflection of himself… one who shares in his goals, and is his equal in skill… but lacks that morality.
Who shares in wanting to take down crime, to prevent needless suffering like what happened to him as a child, but DOES hold that view that “refusing to kill someone like the joker would just be enabling him to do more harm, and thus only harming my mission.” And thus is fully willing to kill their opponents.
Really force Batman to question if his desire to hold onto his morality is a selfish desire, one that allows more suffering to occur at the hands of his villains who keep getting to live.
That’s kinda the story I’ve always said “if I get to write Batman, this is the story I would write.”
Has anyone beaten me to the punch on that?
Read up on the new character Ghost-Maker. That's pretty much what you want.
This is every batman story ever. Azarel mask of phantasm flashpoint batman his son Damian red hood and many more
@@turtleanton6539 true… but the difference is all of those actually have different motives than Batman, despite being vigilantes.
Azreal was a puppet for the Leauge of Shadows
Red Hood was fueled by hatred & a personal vandetta.
And the Phantasam was motivated by revenge.
What I’m looking for in this regard is a character without those kind of smokescreens that make them much easier to be written off as just a “bad guy”
Someone who’s shares in Batman’s beliefs, goals & motives… just not his morals.
@@TheDreadyGamer And to really enhance that point he’s *controlled* in who he kills. A common thug with money problems? He just reprimands. But a serial r&p1s+ who takes sick pleasure in what he does? He snaps his neck without a second thought. And of course everytime he is forced to kill, he takes a minute to mourn and contemplate what he just did.
In others words, a character who isn’t against killing but takes no pleasure in doing it.
so Hush is to batman what doomsday is to superman, where the more he returns, the worse his impact at all is destroyed
I've never understood the whole "Why has Batman never killed the Joker?" thing that people gripe about. Batman doesn't kill. Simple as that.
No, my issue has always been, why hasn't anybody else killed the Joker? Batman writers love to hammer on about how corrupt Gotham's cops are, yet all the times Batman has brought him into custody not a single one crossed the line to cap a notorious cop killer and try to get away with it by claiming he was resisting arrest?
Then you have all the Gotham mob bosses he's crossed - none of them had hitmen who could cap a guy who never wears body armor and is always flamboyantly dressed (ie hard to miss in a crowd)? None of them thought it'd be a good idea to hire Deadshot or Deathstroke to take a out a major thorn in their side that wastes their hired goons because it amuses them?
Then you have all the other Batman rogues who've A. shown they have no qualms when it comes to killing and B. have been used, betrayed or targeted by the Joker yet have never made a serious attempt to take the guy out.
Then you have all the heroes/anti heroes who don't have no kill codes - Vigilante, Red Hood (seriously?! THIS guy actually took till 3 Jokers to ice one?! HOW?!?!), at one point the Helena Bertinelli Huntress would kill iirc, etc - none of these guys thought it'd be a good idea to end the Joker's reign of terror with a double tap to the back of the skull?
And finally, Gotham is a crime ridden city in the gun-loving USA. You can't tell me over half the people living there aren't strapped, so how has a notorious homicidal psycho that has a reputation for killing people randomly on a dime just because it makes him laugh not been capped by some nervous and paranoid Gothamite's concealed carry Glock the second he shows his face in public.
This is the problem comics have had since the Dark Knight movie came out: when you go out of your way to constantly hammer audiences over the head with how "realistic" you're being, you just draw their attention to the things you can't make realistic when it comes to superheroes, because they're ultimately a wildly unrealistic premise at their core. And ironically, it's that unrealistic larger-than-life, over the top shit that makes them so fun and enduring... when they aren't being written by guys who feel like they have to make them darker and more serious because they have some kind of persecution complex where they think everyone is making fun of them for liking "kid stuff" ie superheroes - and make no mistake, thats exactly what superheroes are, kid stuff. Superheroes are children's power fantasy stories at the end of the day, no amount of grim and gritty realism will ever change that, it just makes the writers who go to further and further lengths to do so (and the audiences they pander to) only look more and more like the cringey, insecure incels they don't realize they're being. Ever since 1985 (although, again, it REALLY took off after Nolan's Dark Knight), the comic book industry's problem has been that its writers have been trying to justify their choice of entertainment medium to a world that, in reality, couldn't care less about their enjoyment of superheroes, and the sooner they realize that and get over it, the better
It's like big heist movies, the amount of Xanatos gambits they have to do are insane and I only use that term with some familiarity, having not really watched Gargoyles enough, but I do want to, if only to get more familiar with that expression, but also because it's a cool series (until season 3)
@@ToHoldNothing speaking of Xanatos Gambit, it was around the time of the Dark Knight when it got to the point with the way people wrote the Joker that everyone of his plans was kind of a Xanatos Gambit, in that no matter what Batman did, Joker had a rationalization for how he had won the encounter.
Remember the BTAS days, when Batman would foil a Joker plot and Joker would actually show anger and frustration at being thwarted? And then the Heath Ledger Joker comes along and now he's all, "you may have stopped every element of my plan, but I never really cared about the plan anyways, I was always in this for the showdown with you to be honest lol. Plus I killed a guard in a very gruesome way during my escape before I started my plan, Robin saw something traumatizing during said plan, and your code prevents you from killing me so that means I win, gee ain't I a stinker? Rofl also something something chaos, something something darkness is inside all of us blah blah we'll do this forever darling yadda yadda some other cliche every writer has me say once I'm caught" - seriously, the greatest trick Christopher Nolan ever pulled was turning him into some middle school edgelord's fanfiction Gary Stue and ruined him, but doing it in such a way that every Batman writer since then is now under the misconception that Nolan actually made the character better...
Maybe this is too hot of a hot take, but I'm gonna say it - Schumacher was a way better Batman director than Nolan was (Nolan's Two Face was sliiightly better, but thats it). Go ahead, try to change my mind, but remember before you do that Bat-Nipples aren't an argument
@@dmore454 Having seen Joker's behavior in Long Halloween Part 1, which the Nolan trilogy was based on (the comic version, not sure if the animated film took liberties, seems thorough), honestly, it does feel like the writers (Nolan and David S. Goyer, who wrote Man of Steel and Batman v. Superman) wanted to go with a more brutal Joker that's just a psychopath with some elements of complex strategizing in there, like genius and madness are just a hair's breadth away. But with Long Halloween Joker, he was doing it more for fun and was able to think on the fly, which makes more sense anyway if he's a mad genius in that sense.
Nolan's Two Face had more depth, I seem to recall Schumacher's was more based on Long Halloween's, but then went in a cartoonish element instead of any version that delves into his psychology, which is way better
@@dmore454 The Joker should have died years ago, period. and maybe revived on a new DC reboot.
the whole 'The Joker is the ultimate evil, potentially capable to destroy the world' thing is bad enough, but now we got stuff like the Batman who laughs which is this whole thing turned up to eleven. basically turning the Joker into the incarnation of chaos and inevitability in a figurative sense. the joker now so smart and powerful that he can turn bruce into a literal planet destroyer the moment he dies.
the guy is just a clown who kills people, thats it, he doesnt need to be more than that.
@@Marvin06260 I feel the same way - back when they did the New 52 i thought it would've been better if they'd done a clean slate reboot similar to what Marvel's Ultimates was intended to be (where they release a new line of continuity with updated origins and slowly phase out the old continuity books as each of the books' sales reached cancelation levels, and then relaunch said books in Ultimates continuity after their 616 counterpart wrapped up). If DC ever did that, basically make it a hard editorial rule that this Joker will basically be BTAS Joker, and you can never go more than 10% further than the BTAS writers were allowed to go. Any Batman writer that had an issue with the rule gets told, "Well, maybe this new main continuity isn't the right sandbox for you to play in and tell your stories - would you maybe be happier telling your Joker story in the out-of-continuity Vertigo/Black Label/Elsewords lines without as much editorial oversight? Yeah? Good, then go over there, take your weird psycho fantasies with you and be those editors' problem"
If I was running DC, once that became the plan then I'd let the writers of the Bat books set in the current continuity (ie the Earth-2 universe to my proposed DC Ultimate continuity) pitch their best Death of the Joker story and pick the best pitch to run with and market the shit out of
I’m gonna say this...his reading of Batman’s inner monologue when he’s attacking Joker. Genuine chills. It’s not loud or over the top gruff. Like Jesus Christ...wow.
This also reminds me of the Poyo episode where the cutaway, instead of a joke, was a chilling narration of the DOOM opening speech. Lewis can deliver some chills in these episodes.
Joker's neck is SO easy to snap that sometimes it snaps itself!
As a teenager, Batman: Hush was one of the first Batman stories I ever read and was one of my favourites. Ever since I started watching this series, I wanted to hear Linkara talk about it. So thank you to the Patreon who requested this review.
you know this story would have been better if Hush was actually Rock and Roll the whole time.
Or One Face
You say that "So we should make more war" line as a joke, but that was literally Zech's plan at the end of Gundam Wing.
And an entire philosophy within 40k's Inquisition.
@@DarthAzabrush I think i heard about that from a friend of mine.
@@jmiles86 Istvaanism (named for the Istvaan System Massacres) is the radical belief that for the Imperium to remain strong its trusted secret agents have a duty to start as many fights within, without and beyond its borders as possible. Needless to say they really get on with the Orks.
@@DarthAzabrush I heard about it but I never knew it's name. Thanks.
Gundam Wing is basically World War 1 as a mecha anime, including the overall naivete of the world in regards to war and how devastating it can be. Treize even explicitly uses the phrase "the war to end all wars", as in he believes that if the world experiences a war big enough, it'll make them sick of the thought of ever going to war again.
36:19. Two face? No. Judging by the the fact the bandages cover his entire face, it can only be one of batman's greatest enemies, ONE-FACE!!!
or larry trainer of the doom patrol is seeking the naming rights after reading detective comics 284.
@@changvasejarik62Naw, he's actually planning to sue Hush for stealing his look. 😂
I like that the conflict between Bruce and Selina is trust. Rather than the movie making it about his no-kill rule. Like, I get it, one of Batman's most dramatic and complex traits his his no-kill rule. But there's plenty of other things to his character. And it fits much better that trust would be his conflict with Selina. Bruce is an overly paranoid nutjob, but Selina also is a thief who has been established time and time again as manipulator and a master of deception. They love each other. But can they trust? Are either of them willing to change? It's good stuff.
Linkara: Huntress' belly window.
Me, an intellectual: Those metallic bananas holding up her cape.
Yeah I was wondering about those
50:31 What I find more impractical are the crazy motorcycles her and Catwoman are on. How do you even turn them? You could argue it's faster to lean them than turn, but we see Catwomans' has a flat front wheel, meaning it's designed to stay upright. In fact, what are the thingies on the back of huntress' even supposed to do?
I'm curious how many ordinary criminals try to pin the blame of their crimes on supervillains, especially murderers trying to blame the Joker.
There was an arc in I want to say Shadow of the Bat in the '90s where Joker was finely convicted of a capital crime and found guilty and sentenced to death. Bruce does not think it fits digs and finds that indeed for the crime he was convicted of Joker was framed.
@@Conner3030 Okay so I'm really with Linkara on Batman shouldnt kill Joker, but I think that one's really pushing it.
James Gordon Jr tried to kill his and Barbara's mother with Joker Venom and frame him for it. Compared to most of the villains with gimmicks he's a normal serial killer.
The game Thomas and Bruce are playing is most likely "Little Wars". Is the precursor of tabletop games like Warhammer and other miniature wargames. But instead of fantasy and sci-fi, you got Napoleonic era armies.
Having gotten into tabletop in the last few years (admittedly via 40k, more specifically the skirmish-level Killteam) I'm actually kinda surprised the sheer depth of the tabletop genre is. You got historicals, alt historicals, hell you can turn your matchbox cars into minatures, and there's all sorts of rulesets that are out there as well from basic D6s to ones like the FFG Star Wars ones that use very specific dice and measuring methods.
@@gratuitouslurking8610 yup... tabletop games are insane in terms of variety... Almost to the rule34 level
18:49 “Bruce, I don’t like you in that way”
“Oh, Sorry….”
Also 42:17 When I read the comic, I always thought Joker noticed the plastic surgery, thinking it was someone else he recognised, but only at that moment did he connect the dots and realise “Oh my god, that’s TWO FACE?!”
That would fit the Joker's bizarre memory. He honestly could not recall Barbara Gordon when they met face to face once as he's the classic "you can't possibly expect me to remember every person I've killed, maimed or ruined."
Marvel brought Deadpool as their version of Deathstroke, DC made Harley their version of Deadpool, and Gwenpool became Marvel's version of Harley.
All that remains is for Punchiline to become DC's version of Gwenpool, and the circle will be complete.
That's not a cycle, that's a tennis match.
And then Marvel will probably turn Domino into their Punchline
But then who will be the master?
@@nicholaspeters9919 it doesn't matter, because they would only be a master of evil.
I do kinda like stories from that weird time where the crime families were being supplanted by supervillains. Video killing the radio star and all that
ironically house of hush actually explores that, at least the mentality of the time, showing how the changing times affected the old school gangsters as well as how they clash with the more modern supervillains, and how some criminals attempted to reinvent themselves to keep up with the times (doctor death) etc
It's a good comic, just not a good 'hush' story, it's not even REALLY about him, his ultimate role in the story is admittedly very small despite getting some good moments with him.
Batman having a stroke after Superman burns out the tracker needs to be on the next Top Ten Jokes.
You know the opening made me kind of think, I'd be super down to watch a list video of Linkara talking about his favorite story lines from the big 2, or really any comic series he likes. We already know that the Technis Imperative is his absolute favorite but I'd love to see what the other 9 or 14 are.
Gonna add some thoughts here as I rewatch the episode.
This one might have my favorite "Over there" bit yet.
I love the idea of Alfred and Bruce gossiping about superhero couples and comparing ships. It's just hilarious to me.
The whole tangent about Batman and killing the Joker is so on point especially the bit about the writers making the Joker more and more of a monster.
I agree with your extra thoughts on this.
Although I think it’d be better if he dialled it back to only eleven.
I feel like the biggest strength of conventional crime families is that they add variety and make the super villains more impactful in contrasting them with more "realistc" antagonists.
26:15 Okay this was so funny. Like I have watched this video more a couple times and its not even like a complex joke. Linkara's delivery is just so good and always makes the videos amazing.
I can't argue that some of these writers do need to learn when characters, especially villains, need to be retired. Heck, that's why Limbo is full of guys in silly outfits at this point, because writers used to know that, and would actually create one off villains, even if they didn't die, they weren't the Joker, Lex Luthor, Obadiah Stain, Deathbird, Thanos, or dozens of others who have reasons the heroes won't kill them, and the system can't kill them(The Joker is a stretch, but no jury could reasonably convict him for death if the lawyer went with the insanity defense because...well, Joker), the others are just too powerful, or too well connected for the system to put them down.
But some random shyster like this? Let him have his shining moment, let him 'inspire' others to his greatness, and then kill them. Heck it's why I liked some of the animated versions more, because they could do that with big villains, show them off, let them have their moment, and then shuffle them off forever. Not everyone can break out of a prison, even if they live, and even then, not everyone's going to be crazy enough for another go round.
Sometimes, the best ending for a character is, there's no more stories to tell about them, and that's something writers need to relearn.
That’s why I like Jonah Hex so much, his story ended (somewhat as he’s shown up again from time to time) after he canonically died.
Linkara: *Posts Batman mystery story at 3 A.M.*
Me: I don't need sleep, I need answers.
Edit: Personally I like Jason eventually rejoining Batman, not only is it a redemption for Jason (especially after he was killed by his fan base, supposedly) but like you said, crawling outta the pit DRIVES ONE INSANE!
He kinda had an excuse for not being morally sound at the time.
All the BS killing after his redemption I can't defend tho.
Edit 2: Personally I call his situation "The Venom Effect." Where a character starts off as a hated subject, gets turned into an awesome villan, but then a massive popularity spike convinces writers to turn said character back into a hero.
Afterwards you got two camps, those who love them as irredeemable villans, and those who love him as a tragic hero seeking redemption. Both sides are fitting, but the transition from one side to the other always leaves a fan-war in its wake...
VEN'MMMMMMMMMM
I don’t love Jason Todd as either. I personally wish he stayed dead, or had gotten killed again when he went on his murder spree. Also, Jason Todd never had a redemption. All that happened was the new 52 just made him an antihero with no logic or reason, just fans love him so make him a good guy. He was a straight up villain until that point (countdown not withstanding) .In the Batman books right before new 52, he planted bombs on the Gotham metro so Batman wouldn’t follow him as he escaped. Yeah he was never redeemed. These days I just pretend he doesn’t exist. The fact that people crap on Batwoman for “disgracing the symbol” by Killing clayface and yet turn around and watch Jason machine gun people to death while wearing the bat as well and cheer him on grinds my gears
"I'm not mad, I'm angry."
Riddler must be a fan of Attack of the Killer Tomatoes
Is that what that's from originally? I always think of the Angry Scientist from Sheep in the Big City.
English is fantastic with it's semantics...
28:11 I'll do you one better. Harley has a romance with Green Goblin.
Not even kidding. Watch _I'm a Marvel, and I'm a DC._ It's hilarious, heartwarming, and heartbreaking.
I was going to make a joke that both Green Goblin and Joker were voiced by Mark Hamill but Hamill voiced the Hobgoblin so it doesn't work. :/
Now there's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
I vote Rorschach in Deadpool for best couple
"whats your favorite part of the opera?" "the fact that im batman...crap!" hahahaha
Chieri and Starfire are basically co-hosts at this point.
I thought Linkara was the co-host?
@@DwarfDaddy I thought that pengo (the penguin-looking robot Linkara has) was the co-hosts.
@@shyguyxdtd2465 You mean Pollo? Pollo means chicken in Spanish xD
I saw the animated version first, and didn't really have an issue with it. having the random new character turn out NOT to be the secret villain was a much more interesting twist I felt.
But Riddler, really?
(30 minute mark... ish) Ooooo! An opportunity to give my two cents about the "Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker?" debate, one that I always find frustrating.
I like to redirect the question. Why hasn't Gotham killed the Joker? There is not a single person in the entire damn city that benefits from Joker's existence, not even the people that work for him. He is constantly killing indiscriminately, including law enforcement, regular civilians, and criminals. You are telling me that none of them decided it was time to execute him? No criminal decided that Joker was too much of a wild card? No pissed off officer decided to shoot him the second they got a minute alone with them without Batman around to stop them? No judge decided that he wasn't worth rehabilitating and have his death sentence expedited? Lets face it, with Joker killing so many people and with Batman so frequently succeeding in capturing him and humiliating him, the only reason he isn't dead is because the writers don't want him to be.
Honestly, they should tone down the Joker and make him commit theatrical over the top crimes again. When was the last time the Joker robbed banks or tried to turn all of Gotham's water into pudding? The Joker stories I heard these days are Joker kills lots of people or Joker goes after a Batman supporting cast to hurt/kill them just to make Batman break his code.
Just making the Joker a serial killer doesn't make him fun. It makes him predictable, boring and too close to reality. And when the Joker is boring, you know something went wrong.
Something I've been wondering in recent years, Batman says he'll never kill the Joker, but what's stopping the U.S. government from doing so? Instead of sending the Joker to Arkham, why not give him a ride on "ole sparky".
Whats stopping the the CIA from having a sniper put a bullet through his temple? Or even another supervillain? Joker has pissed off enough other villains that one of them should have hired Deadshot by now.
That's the problem with the whole "Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker" scenario the writers love to bring up. Eventually, people want other folks to kill the Joker, ones with no moral code and thus would not allow the Joker to win in death. And the writers have to make more explanations for why the Joker doesn't killed by other means or just simply get the electric chair.
Ranging from Joker was framed for a crime he didn't commit to the Joker has toxins to make other people into Joker if he dies to the Joker is not evil because he's insane (even though he can tell right from wrong) to Batman intervening for some contrived reason to Gotham City being a supernatural abomination that spews more Jokers or something like that.
Clearly, if people are seeking for others to kill the Joker rather than Batman, it means they are sick and tired of the Joker. Especially "Kill lots of people to piss off Batman enough to kill me" portrayal they've been doing for the character. He's no longer funny anymore, just another boring serial killer.
This is one of the best explanations for Batman's unwillingness to kill.
Let’s not forget to note he calls his grappling line a “batrope”
Bat-branding! 🦇
Really with Jason he either needs to continue as an anti-hero/villain, killing and at odds with the bat family, but possibly still doing what he thinks is right/necessary, or the culmination of Morrison's Batman should have seen him totally abandon killing and truly play by the rules, but unfortunately we had Outlaws at the same time so that didn't happen. He could keep up being Red Hood as like a Matches Malone type deal, which might be what Red Hood Outlaw was doing, but after Incorporated he should have either been with the family as Wingman, or at odds with them as Red Hood.
Honestly this is the world of comic books so there's a lot of wiggle room to have Jason still use guns and *not* kill anyone.
The idea I had being specialized pistols that shoot little devices that cause someone to "lock up" for a while, keeping them immobile but alive
“Bland, interchangeable and unmemorable” is EXACTLY how I’d describe the Gotham mobsters, have to totally agree with you there. This includes Black Mask who gets points for having a super villain LOOK and nothing else
I love the idea that there are just an insufficient number of relevant Aristotle quotes about friendship.
I was honestly hoping for a "Batman Beyond" opera clip...
‘It’s Schway!’
‘It’s schwarbage.’
This is one of the first Batman stories I’ve read and still love it a lot. While the ending is a bit lackluster and Hush has had diminishing returns over time, one Hush element from his later appearances I like is him trying to steal Bruce‘s identity; if that had been the endgoal for Elliot in this story already I think it would have made for a better conclusion.
Hes talking to himself. Lonely people do that waaay too often, we talk to ourselves as a way to have someone to listen even if that someone, is just ourselves.
Him talking to himself denotes that he has separated himself so much from the world that in his void there is only himself, the only person he can rely for company the only ears that will listen to him.