I think what people might get confused about is the fact that within the Jewish communities there are a huge variety of different types of ways of practicing. Personally I grew up exactly in this type of community.. I posted a review on my channel.. this portrayal was exactly my experience
The series was one woman's story of her life. Anyone who sees it as pertaing to all of Jewish society really went in with a preconceived bias. It was also about a sector of an UlLTRA Orthodox community in NYC. Why are you making it about all of your community, when it isn't?
no, it's a movie put out by Hollywood "based" on a book. First of all - everyone knows or should know that Hollywood takes what it wants and embellishes the rest. A LOT. They are constantly making things up, rewriting history, and corrupting facts. Secondly, this is from one woman's perspective- who said she is telling the truth at all? Who said anything she wrote is fact at all?
When recuperating from having a baby I have gone to a special place where there are baby nurses and delicious food and laundry service called a kimperturin hause. The women just sit around and talk all day while nursing out babies and recuperating. There I met many lovely satmar women. I was not raised religious at all but I came to religious observance from seeing the love and respect between husband and wife manifest in the orthodox community. I saw that you didn't need to see the physical side at all to see the respect. Listening to the ways the women spoke about their husbands and children you could see the love in their eyes. I am not a fool and I have seen abuse in all communities. Of course sadly there is abuse. People are human. Just as I saw the abuse and disfunction in the secular community I see it in the religious one. The problem with movies like this is that it seems to make the whole community look as if it is disfunctional. That is far from the case. You will never see a movie about someone leaving a disfunctional secular background and choosing to become religious. Yet that often happens many times.
The Jewish community discusses these kinds of things a lot, but I remember my first reaction when I saw this was that the world isn’t ready for such a complex issue to be presented to them through this lens. There are Orthodox Jews who are happy in their community, and there are those who see the downsides to living there and both opinions are just as valid. Being able to address issues within the community without labeling the whole group as problematic is a conversation that the non-Jewish world is not ready to have. The complexity of the Satmar/Haredi community and how they are seen by others is shown really well. Just look at how the Israeli girl, another Jew, writes them off as religious nuts and Esther, someone who left the community, still reacts angrily to her. People are unable to understand that the experience of being raised in an extremely religious community is not a universal one and it’s not a conversation that the out-group is prepared to have.
Mrs. S None of my relatives are satmar Jews, but I have cousins who are either modern orthodox or Hasidic, and I’ve seen how much love they have for their families. I’ve also seen some of the issues that arise in those communities, like the difficulties of getting a divorce in the Rabbinical court. I think that the show is able to capture the complexity just fine, but the audience’s confirmation bias means that it goes right over their heads.
I think one aspect of Estys experience that viewers have to keep in mind is she apparently was raised primarily by her widowed Grandmother and her mothers history in the community left Esty as a kind of community outcast. With that in mind she probably was much less informed on how a married relationship worked. This lack of knowledge combined with her husbands apparent lack of understanding of how to make his wife feel loved were the major problems in Estys marriage. I agree with the many that have commented before I agree that this is one woman's story who came from a specific sect and community it does not apply to every person who is orthodox
That’s a good point you make. There are parts of her story which are horrible and it shouldn’t happen to anyone, there are no excuses for the way she was treated according to her book (which is more based on true events rather then the film) but what people should have in mind is that, it’s her story not Orthodox Jews in general.
For someone who grew up in Borough Park Brooklyn for most of her youth. What I could honestly say that was truly what was missing in Estes life with that this girl grew up without a mother. The role of the mother is someone who is like a tree she gives comfort, shade, protection,she bears the fruits of her wisdom to her children. Maybe if her mother was there in her life. She would’ve had some idea of what was going to happen to her on her wedding night. I feel that this is a huge difference.
Marriage and sex don't have to be awful but the perspective of the people in that community, you woman go the bottom, you better have a baby etc was pretty awful. Maybe not all Satmer think that way, but a lot do Explaining something awful.does not make it better She had a great mother who the community treated in a terrible way. Her Mother was decent honest, kind and upright, just not orthodox and someone who prefers women. She believed in God, but with a different understanding of God. She was even kind tonot the husband who got angry at her A real mensch. This movie was one woman's story. People are not stereotypes and not all bad for sure. And there are a whole lot of problems in orthodoxy and especially in ultra orthodoxy. I think the community needs to come to grips with these problems
It also didn't help that her father had alcohol issues as well. Living with an alcoholic parent sucks. That was also in Deborah Feldman' s book. (It was a good read.)
If Feldman’s father wasn’t such an abusive alcoholic, there would have been women in the Satmar community who would have loved and taught Esty/Deborah. I find her story more about the failings of her abusive father than the failings of the Satmar, who are still quite insular, but are not, by any means, cold or unloving.
@@matzohgirl yeah. That's true. But what kind of waters was she swimming in? It seems to me that there is some unbelievable inequality and bad treatment of women. That does not mean Satmer women can't be loving. But the system is a big problem.
The stuff that was made up was either to condense the story because Deborah feldman didn't move to Berlin until maybe a decade after she left the community, or to make it more palatable to viewers. For example, in reality Deborah's father wasn't a drunk, he was a mentally disabled man who had the mental age of a child. This story is definitely not representative of Judaism writ large, but it is an accurate representation of Deborah's life in the satmar community. I find it odd that this couple is sort of blaming the show for these "misrepresentations of Judaism" instead of acknowledging the real ideological differences between satmar and chabad communities.
Agreed, the Satamar community is fringe. The jewish community should be standing together to condemn Satamars views. It's known that they abuse women and use their authority to control which is NOT true to Torah AT ALL
@@kochkathryn88 I'm not a jew neither Satmar - but I know some Satmar families - there is no - abuse physical or psychological. Some women have really strong position in family. There is probably certain percent - like everywhere else - but talking about that as general is not right.
@@sarianne33 yeah your right, it's not fair to brush that group with the stroke. I should correct myself and say extremist views from either spectrum should be condemned by the community. Judaism has always pushed for "middle of the road" approach
How do you condemn an entire Kehilah, community? How do you say ALL Satmar needs to be condemned? This show was "based on" a book which was written by one woman showing her perspective. Again, who said she told the truth at all?
With all do respect, I think they are a bit nieve. It's not just there religion, but with all religions, there are some that live more extreme, and follow it more extreme. They might not personally be going through that, but it does happen. And for those that it does happen too, they generally aren't interviewed on CZcams for us to see.
Chabad is so different in it's respect for women from the oppressive communities. I know that this lovely couple doesn't want to say bad things about others, but many women have verified their experience in a Satmar marriage, as portrayed in the show.
Chabad may be better than Satmar and there are certainly some very nice Chabad people. And having gone to their school I can tell you that they have many problems. One rabbi said you have to have intercourse through a hole in a sheet and should never be naked even when you take a bath . I saw rabbis say very hurtful things like if a woman is raped it is bc of how she dresses and a girl was thrown out of school who was pregnant at. 12. No one seemed to think she may have been raped or cared about helping her. I witnessed a lot of abuse, teenagers beaten reprimanded in horrible ways and abuse of women. I am not trying to paint a bad picture just saying that there is abuse there and there is certainly not equality for women
This was in the 70s so maybe there is some change. I sure hope so. There are also individuals who abuse kids and get away with it . Other rabbis condemn abuse. A mixed picture. From my point of view women Need to be counted in a minyan full equally in the synagogue and women must be able to become rabbis if they want to . Until then I wish them.well but certainly not for me
@@shifrafreewoman174 right Because the pressure of teenage girls to have sex by their boyfriends I the secular community is not rape.right? It's only the orthodox who actually respect women more than all other communities
It may not be everyone's experience but it is the experience of many of us. I grew up orthodox and there was rampant abuse. Yes, live and let live is fine as long as there is no abuse. But when there is abuse and the community does nothing to stop it and says don't go to the secular suthor
@@barbaraspector6689 l .glad there was no abuse in yr home. That's wonderful. Truly happy for you. And yes unorthodox is about a particular hasidic community and no two people and community are all the same. And I know loads of people from orthodox communities that faced abuse. And there seems to be among many an unwillingness to look at this problem. It's certainly not unique to Jews or Orthodox Jews. I talk about it because it is my story where I came from. And with some notable exceptions, it does not seem to be something the majority of orthodox communities are willing to look at and work to change. And when u have women in the back or to the side in a shul, not part of a minyan, sometimes separate schooling,. with a legal system aka halacha that has been interpreted and run almost 100 percent exclusively by men, with all.kinds of sexist laws and customs etc it's not surprising that there is often abuse. The same is true in the Catholic church,Mormon Church, Fundamentalist Christianity, strict Islam etc And yes, there is abuse when there are no boundaries so we see this problem in many other areas. I think we all.need to take responsibility and stop oppression of women and children and work to eliminate sexism.in Judaism and all.faiths .
"Unorthodox" was a great story on Netflix. It is one of the regulations of Judaism is for the husband to sexually satisfy the wife. I wonder why the husband in the show did not seem to know or care how to satisfy his wife. I think this is very rare. If not then, they should be trained how to satisfy the wife before they get married. Otherwise, it is a form of rape and abuse!
Personally, I think he was learning right along with her. He was in no was experienced nor was he getting any experience with wife because of her issue that magically went away when she had an affair with some guy in Germany. She could have also expressed to him how to satisfy her as well , but she didn't. So it's a two way street. I think the main character had it in her mind what she thought sex was, and when it didn't pan out for her she was disappointed.
Hmmm... I have to jump in here, so I'm from the ultra orthodox community, and look, unorthodox made some stuff sound worse, but these people here made it sound a lot better than it is! Like a whole lot! Note that they're chabad, which is alot more liberal, but the place where esty and I come from, things are a living hell sometimes!!!
Satmar and Chabad communities are light years apart. You cannot compare both ! Chabad is a progressive, totally open, modern orthodox community, while Satmar are the middle ages of orthodoxy and I would even say that they are lead by neurotic paranoid, schizophrenic traumatized by the Shoa people, who, by the matter of fact, are not even able to go along together, and fighting a hate war to know who is going to "reign" and lead the community under its rule !!! Even if the experience of Debby Feldman was personal and very influenced by the missing of a mother, proper parents, siblings and normal family, what she describes is totally true. Nobody can deny the place of women in their society, the hate and non recognition of Israel, the hallucinating prophecies, the hate of everything and everyone who is different from them, the total seclusion, the censorship, and I could continue for pages like that. If you want to answer your question, you have to ask from inside the Satmar women community. But they are so brainwashed, that I am not even sure that if given the right to bring their voices (which they won't have) it would be of interest....
Exactly!! Very well said... I don't know why anybody else here didn't notice the obvious... Chabad people talking on satmur, is like Americans talking on the ancient Indian tribes...
I feel that I know more about the Satmar community than they do. I felt that some of the replies came defensively about being Jewish - for example the dating. Unlike this couple, I feel that the Satmar community does have very limited interaction before marriage.
I grew up Satmar and I NEVER felt oppressed, shut down, or inferior. I feel terribly sorry for what Debra went through, but most of the traumas and horrors she went through were more because of her dysfunctional family than because of religion. With changes to a few minor details, the same story could have happened anywhere.
I’m Jewish and know of the extreme /fundamentalist jewish communities. Most religions do have extremists and moderates . So not shocking, just disturbing
It would be interesting to a reaction video to Deborah Feldman's book 'unorthodox'. Because that is a realistic report of satmar community. Deborah could not have been conparing satmar community to the chabad community in her book.
Thank you Dani and raisle you guys did a beautiful job on this video and what’s more important that you are dispelling the myths and misinformation about chabad and modern orthodox 2023 about 25 years ago many colleges and universities were perpetuating myths of severe abuse of women baby making machines denial to study Torah tulmud Kabbalah to me it is a shandy todays society is uneducated to our structural belief system and rituals chabad rabbis have labored to educate our people and the world to the true people of faith we are once again thank you for educating everyone 😊❤❤❤❤
Honestly lmfaoooo it’s laughable. Like we get it you love your religion BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH for some Jewish girls. BE BLESSED you got to “chose” your life style with Judaism. CLEARLY some women do not.
Hello to you both. I am new to your channel, but I am really enjoying your blogs. I love the chemistry you both have for each other. Your both lovely. It's wonderful learning about your religion. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Your marriage and family values are inspiring. Thank you.
**I am not mentioning about these orthodox people : I am just commenting in general** I think people (interviewees) in general tend to focus on defending their religion and practices and cultures (or whatever the matter is) that they belong or associated with, because they fear and don’t want to be labeled and seen as one monolithic wrong-doing group of people. That is why the diversity and varying levels of practice of religion is often emphasized in these types of insight interviews. Yet, these people because of defending how their community is viewed, tend to neglect confronting their community issues-or even acknowledge that a certain aspect of their believes have a harmful affect in some cases. Many times the community says that the certain issue (in topic) was caused of [~~~(basically something else)] and rejecting any responsibility. This isn’t (only) about a certain religion. This is true to any religion or culture. We do have to be aware of this self-defense and neglect mental mechanism.
High value Chinese man only socialize with people who live in high social hierarchy , that's just how it works ! rich man match rich family memberships ! Gym memberships done ! let's go the next stage ! a high value hierarchy man goes up as daily basis !
I have heard an orthodox woman from New York saying that it took her many years to process that for her, her wedding night absolutely was a rape. She didn't want to do it, she was terrified of it, but she knew she had to and that without consummating the marriage, she would not be fulfilling her duty. All people have both ends of the spectrum, and for people forced into things, the same experiences can feel very different. I have heard a woman say that being watched in the Mikveh made her feel ashamed and dirty, and I have also heard women say the Mikveh is a place of pure joy for them.
If there is a version of this show in English, I would be willing to get a subscription just for a binge watch of it. I can't tell if you guys are FOR the show or against it, though.
As someone who isn't Jewish, my daughters and I watched this movie and thought it was absolutely awful. Not in the way you maybe thinking. The main character was unlikable, the plot was horrible and the message it was sending was down right horrible as well. I'm most sure there has to be something better out there than this movie. I felt like the message it was sending was, if your life isn't like what you thought it was going to be , run away, don't give any explanation and be sure to never tell the person who loves you why you actually left in the first place.
Is it true that women can’t sing in the public? I LOVE this drama btw, I think smart viewers know what’s real and what’s not. You guys didn’t even give credit on how good acting from actresses and actors. Look at it more artistic pov
I believe in live and let live but if there is abuse I don't believe this works at all Is everyone abusive in this the orthodox community? No. Does this abuse happen? Yes it does. It happens a lot
There are sick people everywhere. Religion is not the cause of it. Many non jews or non chassidic jews are abused. The percentage it's much less in the chassidic community
This is an amazing interview but to be completely honest the show was about the chasidic SATMAR community and this prospective is from a chabad perspective, although all that they say is true there is some challenges that esty had can sometimes be true. But about the marriage arrangements and about the intimacy and the "mafia" it just simply doesn't exist anymore
This couple is very lovely. Perfect shluchim (schlichim). But please mention in the description that they are Orthodox/Chabad. Us misnogdim found the Rebbe to be a brilliant, wonderful Rabbi. However, we also see the Chabad movement as borderline Avodah Zara. Halacha is halacha (Jewish law) and minhag is minhag (Jewish custom). I am Orthodox but my minhagim are not the same. It can be misleading to many. And at the same time, good PR for the Chabad movement! Perfect kiruv!
The entire community is at fault, for consistently doing nothing about the abuse that goes on, it’s no secret! There are also scores of child abuse victims/survivors out there, the community does nothing proactively. They don’t contact the police, they don’t deal with these issues as a community. So, yes, it’s a community issue.
In every community children are abused, and sadly enought it is often the mother who covers it all up to keep up the picture perfect family image. It makes me sick to my stomache thinking about it, but this is nothing that happens exclusivly in jewish communities.
@@zwischenburkaundbikini2418 of course it is not exclusive to Jews. It happens in many communities and like all communities us Jews need to take responsibility!
@@artofmybody2882 Being strict is one thing, the other thing that is very sad to deny is the joy of being a member of a hasidic community, there is a joy that this movie was not able to portrait, a collective joy.
Does the lady in this interview have her head shaved? She kept touching her head, so wasn't sure. I lived in Israel 15 years ago, I think this couple is in a very progressive group. Not all Orthodox are like this. Also, I had a Jewish friend here in Calif. went with a group to plant trees and the Orthodox male locals picked up stones and threw it at them as they are not seen as Jews (according to her ) any thoughts?
@@Sbannmarie who said that?! There is no biblical requirement for a married woman to shave her head. I live near orthodox and Chabad communities and I've seen many women with hair under their scarves or wigs.
She is wearing a wig. But has her hair underneath. Chabad does not shave their head for marriage. That is a Satmar custom. Chabad is very into outreach (finding irreligious Jews and turning them onto Orthodoxy. They do not go after converts). Therefore they are very friendly and open. They are the opposite of Satmar (and don't particularly like each other to be honest. They rarely, rarely mix except if they live near each other, like in Brooklyn. And even then it is very minimal). We have a ton of friends just like this couple (and I will ask around tomorrow if I know them, lol!). Oprah online did a great series with an Orthodox couple in Brooklyn. Check it out. Very informative.
I have always loved the Jewish people. I’m also very close with several Orthodox Jews and Chassidic Jews. I’m not a fan of how Netflix makes the chassidic community look awful. Do people get abused in the community? Sadly yes BUT most of this series was all lies
Imagine that this exact same movie would be made, however replace Muslims with Satmar Hassidim. Can we imagine how it would be denounced as "Islamophobic" and it would probably not even be produced to begin with. However because Satmar is a small community with no political significance therefore it's OK to produce sensational and hateful propaganda about it.
@@jhas4055 Name one popular movie or television series where every Muslim depicted in it is portrayed in such a negative way as is the case with every Satmar Hassid portrayed in Unorthodox. By the way you might be interested in my recent book about Islam, which I believe is based entirely on universally accepted facts and is not a work of fiction like Unorthodox. www.amazon.com/License-Kill-Psychological-Study-Islam/dp/B084B1SBKV docs.google.com/document/d/1beHIbHdTiyX-Ux-DFxbyMA_XEAB-bydCoXpTUpffTxU/edit?usp=sharing
Incidentally the movie and the book it’s based on are entirely fraudulent. What actually happened is that a young woman was in a bad marriage and got divorced, however she decided to make a small fortune by falsely claiming to be the survivor of a dangerous woman hating cult. Deborah Feldman is just a single mom like millions of others, nothing more or less.
What a wonderful Orthodox couple, thank you so much for this interview.
Thank you 😊
I think what people might get confused about is the fact that within the Jewish communities there are a huge variety of different types of ways of practicing. Personally I grew up exactly in this type of community.. I posted a review on my channel.. this portrayal was exactly my experience
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope things have gotten better for you.
The series was one woman's story of her life. Anyone who sees it as pertaing to all of Jewish society really went in with a preconceived bias. It was also about a sector of an UlLTRA Orthodox community in NYC. Why are you making it about all of your community, when it isn't?
Because to many dumb people thing all orthodox jews were like that. Which is of corse neither the fault of Deborah Feldmann or Netflix.
no, it's a movie put out by Hollywood "based" on a book. First of all - everyone knows or should know that Hollywood takes what it wants and embellishes the rest. A LOT. They are constantly making things up, rewriting history, and corrupting facts. Secondly, this is from one woman's perspective- who said she is telling the truth at all? Who said anything she wrote is fact at all?
When recuperating from having a baby I have gone to a special place where there are baby nurses and delicious food and laundry service called a kimperturin hause. The women just sit around and talk all day while nursing out babies and recuperating. There I met many lovely satmar women. I was not raised religious at all but I came to religious observance from seeing the love and respect between husband and wife manifest in the orthodox community. I saw that you didn't need to see the physical side at all to see the respect. Listening to the ways the women spoke about their husbands and children you could see the love in their eyes. I am not a fool and I have seen abuse in all communities. Of course sadly there is abuse. People are human. Just as I saw the abuse and disfunction in the secular community I see it in the religious one. The problem with movies like this is that it seems to make the whole community look as if it is disfunctional. That is far from the case. You will never see a movie about someone leaving a disfunctional secular background and choosing to become religious. Yet that often happens many times.
The Jewish community discusses these kinds of things a lot, but I remember my first reaction when I saw this was that the world isn’t ready for such a complex issue to be presented to them through this lens. There are Orthodox Jews who are happy in their community, and there are those who see the downsides to living there and both opinions are just as valid. Being able to address issues within the community without labeling the whole group as problematic is a conversation that the non-Jewish world is not ready to have. The complexity of the Satmar/Haredi community and how they are seen by others is shown really well. Just look at how the Israeli girl, another Jew, writes them off as religious nuts and Esther, someone who left the community, still reacts angrily to her.
People are unable to understand that the experience of being raised in an extremely religious community is not a universal one and it’s not a conversation that the out-group is prepared to have.
Mrs. S None of my relatives are satmar Jews, but I have cousins who are either modern orthodox or Hasidic, and I’ve seen how much love they have for their families. I’ve also seen some of the issues that arise in those communities, like the difficulties of getting a divorce in the Rabbinical court. I think that the show is able to capture the complexity just fine, but the audience’s confirmation bias means that it goes right over their heads.
I think one aspect of Estys experience that viewers have to keep in mind is she apparently was raised primarily by her widowed Grandmother and her mothers history in the community left Esty as a kind of community outcast. With that in mind she probably was much less informed on how a married relationship worked. This lack of knowledge combined with her husbands apparent lack of understanding of how to make his wife feel loved were the major problems in Estys marriage. I agree with the many that have commented before I agree that this is one woman's story who came from a specific sect and community it does not apply to every person who is orthodox
That’s a good point you make. There are parts of her story which are horrible and it shouldn’t happen to anyone, there are no excuses for the way she was treated according to her book (which is more based on true events rather then the film)
but what people should have in mind is that, it’s her story not Orthodox Jews in general.
For someone who grew up in Borough Park Brooklyn for most of her youth. What I could honestly say that was truly what was missing in Estes life with that this girl grew up without a mother. The role of the mother is someone who is like a tree she gives comfort, shade, protection,she bears the fruits of her wisdom to her children. Maybe if her mother was there in her life. She would’ve had some idea of what was going to happen to her on her wedding night. I feel that this is a huge difference.
Marriage and sex don't have to be awful but the perspective of the people in that community, you woman go the bottom, you better have a baby etc was pretty awful. Maybe not all Satmer think that way, but a lot do Explaining something awful.does not make it better
She had a great mother who the community treated in a terrible way. Her Mother was decent honest, kind and upright, just not orthodox and someone who prefers women. She believed in God, but with a different understanding of God. She was even kind tonot the husband who got angry at her A real mensch.
This movie was one woman's story. People are not stereotypes and not all bad for sure.
And there are a whole lot of problems in orthodoxy and especially in ultra orthodoxy.
I think the community needs to come to grips with these problems
It also didn't help that her father had alcohol issues as well. Living with an alcoholic parent sucks.
That was also in Deborah Feldman' s book. (It was a good read.)
I agree. She was adrift in life without a rowboat.
If Feldman’s father wasn’t such an abusive alcoholic, there would have been women in the Satmar community who would have loved and taught Esty/Deborah.
I find her story more about the failings of her abusive father than the failings of the Satmar, who are still quite insular, but are not, by any means, cold or unloving.
@@matzohgirl yeah. That's true. But what kind of waters was she swimming in? It seems to me that there is some unbelievable inequality and bad treatment of women. That does not mean Satmer women can't be loving. But the system is a big problem.
The whole world doesn’t see the whole Orthodox community this way. It’s entertainment, not a documentary.
its effects people's mind way more than you think...
Many things disguise themselves under the flag of entertainment.
@@NetaBatata True that! Society today is shaped by the entertainment world
The stuff that was made up was either to condense the story because Deborah feldman didn't move to Berlin until maybe a decade after she left the community, or to make it more palatable to viewers. For example, in reality Deborah's father wasn't a drunk, he was a mentally disabled man who had the mental age of a child. This story is definitely not representative of Judaism writ large, but it is an accurate representation of Deborah's life in the satmar community. I find it odd that this couple is sort of blaming the show for these "misrepresentations of Judaism" instead of acknowledging the real ideological differences between satmar and chabad communities.
They admitted that it was based on a true story but that they changed a lot in the story line for different reasons
Agreed, the Satamar community is fringe. The jewish community should be standing together to condemn Satamars views. It's known that they abuse women and use their authority to control which is NOT true to Torah AT ALL
@@kochkathryn88 I'm not a jew neither Satmar - but I know some Satmar families - there is no - abuse physical or psychological. Some women have really strong position in family. There is probably certain percent - like everywhere else - but talking about that as general is not right.
@@sarianne33 yeah your right, it's not fair to brush that group with the stroke. I should correct myself and say extremist views from either spectrum should be condemned by the community. Judaism has always pushed for "middle of the road" approach
How do you condemn an entire Kehilah, community? How do you say ALL Satmar needs to be condemned? This show was "based on" a book which was written by one woman showing her perspective. Again, who said she told the truth at all?
With all do respect, I think they are a bit nieve. It's not just there religion, but with all religions, there are some that live more extreme, and follow it more extreme. They might not personally be going through that, but it does happen.
And for those that it does happen too, they generally aren't interviewed on CZcams for us to see.
It would be interesting to hear prospectives from Satmar community. I found that many people from Chabad are very progressive.
I live near Chabad Jews and they seem nothing close to what Ive heard about Satmars.
Jew in the city posted an interview with a Satmar lady, Faiga Leah Landau. You can find it on the channel by Jew in the city.
Satmar is by far the most strict and extreme jewish community in the world
@@shmileyfriedlander4519 what more strict than Satmar?
@@yp5521 Lev Tahor - check it out...
intimacy issues is tramatic based on certain experiences of some. don't discount the issue.
Chabad is so different in it's respect for women from the oppressive communities. I know that this lovely couple doesn't want to say bad things about others, but many women have verified their experience in a Satmar marriage, as portrayed in the show.
Chabad may be better than Satmar and there are certainly some very nice Chabad people.
And having gone to their school I can tell you that they have many problems. One rabbi said you have to have intercourse through a hole in a sheet and should never be naked even when you take a bath . I saw rabbis say very hurtful things like if a woman is raped it is bc of how she dresses and a girl was thrown out of school who was pregnant at. 12. No one seemed to think she may have been raped or cared about helping her. I witnessed a lot of abuse, teenagers beaten reprimanded in horrible ways and abuse of women.
I am not trying to paint a bad picture just saying that there is
abuse there and there is certainly not equality for women
This was in the 70s so maybe there is some change. I sure hope so. There are also individuals who abuse kids and get away with it .
Other rabbis condemn abuse. A mixed picture.
From my point of view women Need to be counted in a minyan full equally in the synagogue and women must be able to become rabbis if they want to .
Until then I wish them.well but certainly not for me
Chabad believe a dead man is their God - they aren't Jewish
@@shifrafreewoman174 right Because the pressure of teenage girls to have sex by their boyfriends I the secular community is not rape.right? It's only the orthodox who actually respect women more than all other communities
@@JewishGirlRox They do not, why would u say that?
It may not be everyone's experience but it is the experience of many of us. I grew up orthodox and there was rampant abuse.
Yes, live and let live is fine as long as there is no abuse. But when there is abuse and the community does nothing to stop it and says don't go to the secular suthor
i also group up in a hasidic community, went to secular college, and never experienced any alienation. to each their own
No abuse in my house.
@@barbaraspector6689 l .glad there was no abuse in yr home. That's wonderful.
Truly happy for you.
And yes unorthodox is about a particular hasidic community and no two people and community are all the same.
And I know loads of people from orthodox communities that faced abuse.
And there seems to be among many an unwillingness to look at this problem. It's certainly not unique to Jews or Orthodox Jews. I talk about it because it is my story where I came from. And with some notable exceptions, it does not seem to be something the majority of orthodox communities are willing to look at and work to change.
And when u have women in the back or to the side in a shul, not part of a minyan, sometimes separate schooling,. with a legal system aka halacha that has been interpreted and run almost 100 percent exclusively by men, with all.kinds of sexist laws and customs etc it's not surprising that there is often abuse. The same is true in the Catholic church,Mormon Church, Fundamentalist Christianity, strict Islam etc
And yes, there is abuse when there are no boundaries so we see this problem in many other areas.
I think we all.need to take responsibility and stop oppression of women and children and work to eliminate sexism.in Judaism and all.faiths .
Love this family.❤
"Unorthodox" was a great story on Netflix. It is one of the regulations of Judaism is for the husband to sexually satisfy the wife. I wonder why the husband in the show did not seem to know or care how to satisfy his wife. I think this is very rare. If not then, they should be trained how to satisfy the wife before they get married. Otherwise, it is a form of rape and abuse!
Barbara Mintz Agreed
Personally, I think he was learning right along with her. He was in no was experienced nor was he getting any experience with wife because of her issue that magically went away when she had an affair with some guy in Germany. She could have also expressed to him how to satisfy her as well , but she didn't. So it's a two way street. I think the main character had it in her mind what she thought sex was, and when it didn't pan out for her she was disappointed.
I would suggest that people don't watch Unorthodox before they watch Schindlers List. They might start cheering for the wrong guys.
Great initiative.
Hmmm... I have to jump in here, so I'm from the ultra orthodox community, and look, unorthodox made some stuff sound worse, but these people here made it sound a lot better than it is! Like a whole lot! Note that they're chabad, which is alot more liberal, but the place where esty and I come from, things are a living hell sometimes!!!
Living paradise for me! Come from Brooklyn some place as esty / Deborah
@@thewisdom3641 I gotta hear more about that.
Satmar and Chabad communities are light years apart. You cannot compare both ! Chabad is a progressive, totally open, modern orthodox community, while Satmar are the middle ages of orthodoxy and I would even say that they are lead by neurotic paranoid, schizophrenic traumatized by the Shoa people, who, by the matter of fact, are not even able to go along together, and fighting a hate war to know who is going to "reign" and lead the community under its rule !!! Even if the experience of Debby Feldman was personal and very influenced by the missing of a mother, proper parents, siblings and normal family, what she describes is totally true. Nobody can deny the place of women in their society, the hate and non recognition of Israel, the hallucinating prophecies, the hate of everything and everyone who is different from them, the total seclusion, the censorship, and I could continue for pages like that. If you want to answer your question, you have to ask from inside the Satmar women community. But they are so brainwashed, that I am not even sure that if given the right to bring their voices (which they won't have) it would be of interest....
Exactly!! Very well said... I don't know why anybody else here didn't notice the obvious... Chabad people talking on satmur, is like Americans talking on the ancient Indian tribes...
I feel that I know more about the Satmar community than they do. I felt that some of the replies came defensively about being Jewish - for example the dating. Unlike this couple, I feel that the Satmar community does have very limited interaction before marriage.
@@deborahbarry8458 right. Because the in the secular community they only have sex after knowing each other for years
it is also possible that in middle ages orthodoxy was more progressive.
I grew up Satmar and I NEVER felt oppressed, shut down, or inferior. I feel terribly sorry for what Debra went through, but most of the traumas and horrors she went through were more because of her dysfunctional family than because of religion. With changes to a few minor details, the same story could have happened anywhere.
Great and inspiring interview.
Thank you!
I’m Jewish and know of the extreme /fundamentalist jewish communities. Most religions do have extremists and moderates .
So not shocking, just disturbing
It would be interesting to a reaction video to Deborah Feldman's book 'unorthodox'. Because that is a realistic report of satmar community. Deborah could not have been conparing satmar community to the chabad community in her book.
Thank you Dani and raisle you guys did a beautiful job on this video and what’s more important that you are dispelling the myths and misinformation about chabad and modern orthodox 2023 about 25 years ago many colleges and universities were perpetuating myths of
severe abuse of women baby making machines denial to study Torah tulmud Kabbalah to me it is a shandy todays society is uneducated to our structural belief system and rituals chabad rabbis have labored to educate our people and the world to the true people of faith we are once again thank you for educating everyone 😊❤❤❤❤
B"H cada dia somos más los judios que vivimos con TORA y con EMUNA😊
I hate when people deny other peoples story just so they can feel better about themself
Honestly lmfaoooo it’s laughable. Like we get it you love your religion BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH for some Jewish girls. BE BLESSED you got to “chose” your life style with Judaism. CLEARLY some women do not.
So informative
Glad you liked it
Well said COUPLE
Enlightening.
I hope you realize that YOUR experience can be positive and another person’s experience can be negative. BOTH CAN BE TRUE
Hello to you both. I am new to your channel, but I am really enjoying your blogs. I love the chemistry you both have for each other. Your both lovely. It's wonderful learning about your religion. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Your marriage and family values are inspiring. Thank you.
**I am not mentioning about these orthodox people : I am just commenting in general**
I think people (interviewees) in general tend to focus on defending their religion and practices and cultures (or whatever the matter is) that they belong or associated with, because they fear and don’t want to be labeled and seen as one monolithic wrong-doing group of people. That is why the diversity and varying levels of practice of religion is often emphasized in these types of insight interviews.
Yet, these people because of defending how their community is viewed, tend to neglect confronting their community issues-or even acknowledge that a certain aspect of their believes have a harmful affect in some cases. Many times the community says that the certain issue (in topic) was caused of [~~~(basically something else)] and rejecting any responsibility.
This isn’t (only) about a certain religion. This is true to any religion or culture.
We do have to be aware of this self-defense and neglect mental mechanism.
High value Chinese man only socialize with people who live in high social hierarchy , that's just how it works ! rich man match rich family memberships ! Gym memberships done ! let's go the next stage ! a high value hierarchy man goes up as daily basis !
I have heard an orthodox woman from New York saying that it took her many years to process that for her, her wedding night absolutely was a rape. She didn't want to do it, she was terrified of it, but she knew she had to and that without consummating the marriage, she would not be fulfilling her duty. All people have both ends of the spectrum, and for people forced into things, the same experiences can feel very different. I have heard a woman say that being watched in the Mikveh made her feel ashamed and dirty, and I have also heard women say the Mikveh is a place of pure joy for them.
If there is a version of this show in English, I would be willing to get a subscription just for a binge watch of it. I can't tell if you guys are FOR the show or against it, though.
As someone who isn't Jewish, my daughters and I watched this movie and thought it was absolutely awful. Not in the way you maybe thinking. The main character was unlikable, the plot was horrible and the message it was sending was down right horrible as well. I'm most sure there has to be something better out there than this movie. I felt like the message it was sending was, if your life isn't like what you thought it was going to be , run away, don't give any explanation and be sure to never tell the person who loves you why you actually left in the first place.
I just saw it as the story of one woman, but unfortunately, there are those who would generalize (I’m trying to be nice🙄)!
Is it true that women can’t sing in the public? I LOVE this drama btw, I think smart viewers know what’s real and what’s not. You guys didn’t even give credit on how good acting from actresses and actors. Look at it more artistic pov
It is true that women can not sing infront of men. Of course they are allowed to sing, but just infront of other women.
Shira not in all communities. In new square woman do not sing at all.
你老母 yes in some communities where I grew up.. women do not sing at all
@@artofmybody2882 but generally, it's not forbidden. The Halacha enables it. They choose to forbid something that allowed
Shira yes of course! There’s a huge range of practices in the Jewish religious community
I think truly hard to explain to outsiders!
I believe in live and let live but if there is abuse I don't believe this works at all
Is everyone abusive in this the orthodox community? No. Does this abuse happen? Yes it does. It happens a lot
There are sick people everywhere. Religion is not the cause of it. Many non jews or non chassidic jews are abused. The percentage it's much less in the chassidic community
it was great. and I dealt with some of the issues esty had in her former marriage.
Thank you 🙏
This is an amazing interview but to be completely honest the show was about the chasidic SATMAR community and this prospective is from a chabad perspective, although all that they say is true there is some challenges that esty had can sometimes be true.
But about the marriage arrangements and about the intimacy and the "mafia" it just simply doesn't exist anymore
This couple is very lovely. Perfect shluchim (schlichim). But please mention in the description that they are Orthodox/Chabad. Us misnogdim found the Rebbe to be a brilliant, wonderful Rabbi. However, we also see the Chabad movement as borderline Avodah Zara. Halacha is halacha (Jewish law) and minhag is minhag (Jewish custom). I am Orthodox but my minhagim are not the same. It can be misleading to many. And at the same time, good PR for the Chabad movement! Perfect kiruv!
The entire community is at fault, for consistently doing nothing about the abuse that goes on, it’s no secret! There are also scores of child abuse victims/survivors out there, the community does nothing proactively. They don’t contact the police, they don’t deal with these issues as a community. So, yes, it’s a community issue.
In every community children are abused, and sadly enought it is often the mother who covers it all up to keep up the picture perfect family image. It makes me sick to my stomache thinking about it, but this is nothing that happens exclusivly in jewish communities.
@@zwischenburkaundbikini2418 of course it is not exclusive to Jews. It happens in many communities and like all communities us Jews need to take responsibility!
It is just another movie PERIOD. Most Jewish people have TORAH based LIFE. I repeat MOST.
Yes girl ! an home based dominant man is here ! very very dominant very very best ! follow your house rule girl !
Authentic Orthodox Judaism is entirely different than the cruel and oppressive, gloomy portrayal in the Netflix production
MrThink613 not quite.. what is authentic Judaism? This is exactly how strict chassidic orthodoxy is..
@@artofmybody2882 Being strict is one thing, the other thing that is very sad to deny is the joy of being a member of a hasidic community, there is a joy that this movie was not able to portrait, a collective joy.
Sima Sayar that is true
What is sadder is that once you see through the societal structure of religion you lose that joy yourself anyways
Does the lady in this interview have her head shaved? She kept touching her head, so wasn't sure. I lived in Israel 15 years ago, I think this couple is in a very progressive group. Not all Orthodox are like this. Also, I had a Jewish friend here in Calif. went with a group to plant trees and the Orthodox male locals picked up stones and threw it at them as they are not seen as Jews (according to her )
any thoughts?
at the 7:10 mark she says she has her own hair
@@Eiramilah Now that's interesting because I think most Orthodox don't consider women 'jewish' unless they are shaven.
@@Sbannmarie who said that?! There is no biblical requirement for a married woman to shave her head. I live near orthodox and Chabad communities and I've seen many women with hair under their scarves or wigs.
@@Sbannmarie Not correct only a minority of Orthodox do that most Religious Jews overall are not like Satmar, or the Charedi sects
She is wearing a wig. But has her hair underneath. Chabad does not shave their head for marriage. That is a Satmar custom. Chabad is very into outreach (finding irreligious Jews and turning them onto Orthodoxy. They do not go after converts). Therefore they are very friendly and open. They are the opposite of Satmar (and don't particularly like each other to be honest. They rarely, rarely mix except if they live near each other, like in Brooklyn. And even then it is very minimal). We have a ton of friends just like this couple (and I will ask around tomorrow if I know them, lol!). Oprah online did a great series with an Orthodox couple in Brooklyn. Check it out. Very informative.
I have always loved the Jewish people. I’m also very close with several Orthodox Jews and Chassidic Jews. I’m not a fan of how Netflix makes the chassidic community look awful. Do people get abused in the community? Sadly yes BUT most of this series was all lies
Fr
It's a shame when people take beautiful religious beliefs and twist and distort them into something that's unrecognizable.
I'm off to Google if there are rabbi woman, Or Orthodox female Leaders. Ciao
I cant watch any movies anymore . . . . too dramatic !
Imagine that this exact same movie would be made, however replace Muslims with Satmar Hassidim. Can we imagine how it would be denounced as "Islamophobic" and it would probably not even be produced to begin with. However because Satmar is a small community with no political significance therefore it's OK to produce sensational and hateful propaganda about it.
Are u kidding me . there are 100s of movies portraying muslims in the worst manner possible.
@@jhas4055 Name one popular movie or television series where every Muslim depicted in it is portrayed in such a negative way as is the case with every Satmar Hassid portrayed in Unorthodox.
By the way you might be interested in my recent book about Islam, which I believe is based entirely on universally accepted facts and is not a work of fiction like Unorthodox.
www.amazon.com/License-Kill-Psychological-Study-Islam/dp/B084B1SBKV
docs.google.com/document/d/1beHIbHdTiyX-Ux-DFxbyMA_XEAB-bydCoXpTUpffTxU/edit?usp=sharing
Incidentally the movie and the book it’s based on are entirely fraudulent. What actually happened is that a young woman was in a bad marriage and got divorced, however she decided to make a small fortune by falsely claiming to be the survivor of a dangerous woman hating cult. Deborah Feldman is just a single mom like millions of others, nothing more or less.
You are just using the series to promote yourselves.
ok if you guys want God to crawl into bed with you, just remember that He really doesn't like cowgirl position
How can I private message you? @thatjewishfamily