1979: MVP Voting in the 70s was Very Weird
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- čas přidán 6. 06. 2024
- 1979's MVP voting was very weird - the best statistical player in the AL, Fred Lynn, finished fourth in his league's voting in spite of being the leader in batting average, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, WAR, and being second in home runs. In the NL, there was a tie.
It’s late November, and you’re in your living room, watching the MLB Network MVP announcements. Imagine your surprise when Mike Schmidt tells you that the NL MVP voting was a tie, and two people won. Imagine how awkward that would be. Now imagine you stay on for the AL, but when they bring on the players, you’re a little confused. The player who led the American League in average, on base, slugging, OPS, OPS+, wins above replacement, and finished second in home runs, didn’t even make the zoom call as a finalist for the award. Welcome to 1979.
Terms to know:
• AVG: Batting Average - percentage of at-bats in which a player gets a hit
• OBP: On-Base Percentage - percentage of plate appearances in which a player gets on base
• SLG: Slugging Percentage - in essence, total bases per at bat
• OPS: On-Base Plus Slugging - the sum of OBP and SLG
• OPS+: a park and era adjusted version of OPS, where 100 is league average
• WAR: Wins Above Replacement - player's value, in wins, relative to a "replacement-level" player at his position
Further reading:
• The 1979 MVP Race: by Joe Poznanski - joeposnanski.substack.com/p/t... (This article was a strong influence on parts of this video. In between the writing and publishing of the video, this article became paid-subscriber only. Still, it is well-written and I recommend it)
MLB baseball - Sport
Fred Lynn has the only grand slam in All Star Game history, and Ichiro has the only inside the park home run in All Star Game history.
Fred Lynn was also the on-deck batter when Carlton Fisk hit the home run to win game 6 of the 1975 World Series and the first player to win both the ROY and MVP awards in the same season.
He ruined Atlee Hammaker's career with that all star slam.
@@captaincarl8230 The voters too one look at Baylor's fat RBI total of 139 and said to themselves....MVP !! But with the Angels making the playoffs too that played into it.
Viewed through the eyes of 2023, everything said here makes sense. In 1979 however, the equation was simple: Baylor was the driving force behind the California Angels nearly making the World Series, and Stargell was the unquestioned driving force behind the Pittsburgh Pirates not only getting there, but winning it. The number of people who viewed players through SABRmetric stats was, generously, in triple digits worldwide. Viewed in the prism of their time? The only mystery was how Hernandez managed to tie Stargell for the NL award.
I think the voters giving Stargell so much love in 79 was to finally give him an MVP. Like said in the vudeo, the MVP award was kunda used as a story telling device, and the story of Stargell's career was coming to an end. Everyone knew that Stargell wasn't likely to put up another season as good, and definitely not one that would include such team success, so this was his last real shot at an MVP. Plus i feel like there was an added pressure to give Stargell an MVP because he was robbed of the 1971 MVP (one could argue that Hank Aaron still should've won over Stargell but in no way should Joe Torre have won) and the 1973 MVP (Stargell should've won over Pete Rose). He made a good run in 72 but Johnny Bench and Billy Williams were definitely better so they deserved their spots ahead of him that year.
I think you’re pretty on point here. It’s crazy Stargell hadn’t yet won an MVP yet - like you said, he was, if not outright robbed, in a pretty good position to win multiple times in his career by the time ‘79 came around.
*video..not vudeo
I've always thought Stargell's selection as NL co-MVP in 1979 was a make-up award for being passed over in 1971 and especially 1973 when he was basically punished for the rest of his team collapsing in the stretch.
"lifetime achievement award"
Torre was the NL leader in two out of the three Triple Crown categories. Take away Joe Torre's batting (.363 - 27 - 137, NL leader in batting average, hits, total bases and runs batted in (2nd in OBP)) and where do you think the Cardinals would have finished? I would think nowhere near their 90-72 record, second in the NL East. If you want to add an advanced SABR statistic, Torre also led the NL in Offensive WAR (Stargell was 3rd).
Has anyone ever matched Stargell’s feat of MVP, NLCS MVP and World Series MVP in the same season?
The closest thing would have been 1966 Frank Robinson. He won the Triple Crown, regular season MVP, and World Series MVP. They didn't have an ALCS or NLCS until three years later. Maybe he would have won that too.
Hershiser won the CY in 88, as well as LCS and World Series MVP
While the Pirates got lucky with the 1979 MVP voting, you can make a good case that it was made up for in 1991 when the MVP went to Terry Pendleton who won it over Barry Bonds for some inexplicable reason.
The writers hated Barry Bonds then and the they still hate him.
Play obviously Willie Stargell wasn’t the best player in the national league in 1979, but the Pirates had a magical season behind their leader, and they wanted to give the future Hall of Famer an MVP award on his résumé
Pop’s brought the Pirates back from down 3-1 in the series something so rare in baseball in “79”. He hit the go ahead homer that won that historic series. Hence co-mvp.
They give the award NOW to the best player. Back then it was the most valuable to the team. Stargell was far and away more valuable to the Pirates than any other player in 1979. This is what happens when stats are too heavily accouted for...
Dave Parker was way more valuable, than Stargell.
@@UTNatlChamps Ask Dave Parker himself... He will tell you Stargell as well... There is way more value to a team other than stats... You millennial stat nerds just don't get it
@@UTNatlChamps Parker was a great player, but don't lose sight of the fact that he had Stargell batting behind him... big difference in the pitches he might see.
It’s like you don’t understand what “WAR” actually means. 🤦🏼♂️
Stats are exactly what you should measure: you remove bias, opinion & feelings & let ONLY the raw empirical data dictate the outcome specifically the stats that account for ALL data & translate to Wins/Runs created:
WAR
OBP
SLG
OPS
OPS+
It doesn’t matter if a team wins 110 games or a team wins 70 games. It’s about who added the most value to their team which is the WAR & OPS+ leader.
@@acason4 If only all stats were perfectly aligned with winning and nothing else matters. Have you ever played a team sport? Performance on the field is a big part of success but hardly the only thing, especially when it comes to the highest levels of team success.
Oh brother, the mvp shenanigans were just kicking off. The era of relievers followed...
Looking back at how many relievers almost won Cy Young awards in the 70's thru mid 80's, one could argue that was the "era if the reliever" not any period after.
@@unkledoda420 *of the reliever
What? You mean people don't revere the relieving prowess of Willie Hernandez?
I love We Are Family playing in the background when you begin to talk about Stargell
I think if Fred Lynn wasn't injured so often (only played over 150 games once and over 140 games 4 times) he would definitely be in the HoF.
I'm sure you know Lynn's reputation for his entire career after the first few seasons - a malingerer, me-first, couldn't-care-less player, whose only interest was money. His downfall from the 1970s was shocking. Back then people thought he would go down as one of the absolutely greatest players of all time. Instead, he turned into a journeyman who was never even considered for the Hall.
I think another thing holding him back is no WS victory.
@@kdmdlo
These things don't really matter in baseball, certainly not in the pre-WC era. Ty Cobb never won a World Series, and neither did Ernie Banks or Ted Williams. No one even mentions it for the first two. For the Splinter they do, because some Boston types felt that his lack of clutch hitting was the difference a couple of times in not winning, such as in 1949.
If he doesn’t leave Boston, he would already be in the HOF
@@hannover5551
Why do you say that?
Keith Hernandez should be in the Hall of Fame
True !!!
Under which team? he played good for both his prime year teams...
@@MB-gd6beHernandez is probably spiritually a Met so it would be a crime to see him in the hall with a STL cap, and I say that as a Cardinals fan. But he was also booed at Busch just as often as he was cheered, so I don’t think it’s much of a decision to make at all.
No he doesn't. Well maybe now since they are putting in Harold Baines and Scott Rolen. The Hall of Fame doesn't really mean anything anymore.
@@gerrypeet4861Scott Rolen is the 3rd base variation of Keith Hernandez and actually has a higher career WAR.
@@gerrypeet4861it still does
Loved the video! Lynn was one of my favorite players. I saw on national TV (no espn) the 1975 World Series. Lots of great players during that era.
Lynn and Jim Rice were quite a combo in the Red Sox lineup in those days. In '79, they both batted over .300, with 39 HRs each and over 100 RBIs each. But the Red Sox had no pitching back then.
@@mbd501 I'm pretty sure that Lynn and Rice both came in 1975. Rice had a broken leg and did not play in the world series against the Reds, pity!
@@panivino28 And I forgot about Dwight Evans in RF. The Red Sox probably had the best outfield in baseball during that mid-late 70s period.
Another Pirates player that was pretty good back in the 70's was Richie Zisk. As a Cincinnati Reds fan, I can tell you that guy was a thorn in our side.
As soon as I heard the, We Are Family, music bed underneath your Willie Stargelll profile, I gave you a like. Very nice touch! A little eye for detail there and I appreciate it.
Awesome job Zach! I love any mention of Bobby Grich, as I think he might be the most underrated player in history. Certainly a deserving case for the HOF. I can't wait to watch more of your content!
Thanks! Grich probably does get a lot more of a HOF look if he’s on the ballot today than he did in his time - modern stats look a lot better for him than traditional ones. These days, his numbers look like a Hall of Famer. Way underrated all-time
Many things are not measurable such as being a clubhouse leader. It is why they are called intangibles... Fred Lynn was never a clubhouse leader. Both Stargell and Baylor were leaders who helped their teams win their division with their clubhouse presence.
QED
Willie carried the Pirates to the title. The last month of the year Willie was incredible. Expos and Phillies were awesome that year. Very stressful last month in one of the best pennant races ever. The quality of teams at the top were Willie deserved the MVP!
Exactly!
Statistical evidence please - and you don't have to limit yourself to modern metrics, ANY stats
The Butt Pirates 🏴☠️ were great in 1979
@@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes See zach's reply to my earlier post where he lists trailing and late/close batting for Stargell that year.
No.
Very good video
You can’t compare the 79 MVP because it was a different time
Today with trout getting MVPS for being in last place!!
I’ll take 79
Then there are things that can't be measured by stats. Willie Stargell was a leader in the club house. He was no doubt the most valuable player on the 1979 Pirates. I think he earned it.
No. 🤦🏼♂️
Facts don’t care about “feelings”. He OBJECTIVELY wasn’t even the best player on his own team.
No way this has less than 100 views. Keep up the good work dude
Thanks!
@@zachr26 you only reply to compliments?
Outstanding job on this piece! I was a huge Stargell fan but grew up a Cardinals lifer. Keep up the nice work!
Loved Freddy Lynn... watched him with the mid-80s Orioles.. what a swing.. hit the exact amount of hrs every year then get hurt..
Four straight seasons of exactly 23 home runs, seven straight of 21-25…It’s really too bad he couldn’t stay healthy later in his career
But Willie Stargell meant SO much to the first-place Pirates. "Pops!" Leader of the Family! In fact, he picked "We Are Family" as the team's theme song, and that was iconic for the team and the city. Best player in 1979? Maybe not. Most valuable? DEFINITELY.
Now you're gonna piss off all the analytics fanboys who think we should just automatically give the MVP to the player with the highest WAR. There are some aspects of a player's "value" that don't show up on a stat sheet.
@@unkledoda420 Yep, I wonder how much value Cutch is adding to the 2023 Pirates.
I came to a similar conclusion at the end of the video. Stargell’s stats probably don’t put him near the top of the race if it took place today, but his contributions on and off the field were extremely valuable to that team
Pops was the leader of that team. You ask Dave Parker who was MVP I guarantee he'd say Pops. He also won MVP NLCS and World series
Good points. If you weren't alive and watching what Pop's did in the Pirate's pennant chase, you lose perspective on what he meant to his team. He also validated his co-MVP award with his incredible post season performance, a remarkable year indeed.
Love the “We Are Family” track for Willie Stargell!
Good stuff. Just found your channel.
I like the subjects, presentation, and production value. Easy sub
Back in the day MVP meant what player was most valued to their respective team. The Angles and Pirates do not make the playoffs without Baylor or Stargell. Ops, ops+, and WAR was not used in 1979. Sometimes stats do not tell the whole story. I’ve seen several players hit a ton of HR when losing big or up big (Sosa). I’ve seen QBs get 150+ yards and a few TDs in a blowout (Kirk Cousins) but when looking at the box score it appears to be a great game.
If you go by pure stats, Ohtani should be the MVP every year because he is a top hitter and pitcher in the league, nobody else does what he does. Wouldn’t he brings more value because he is elite at both hitting at pitching?
Bobby Grich played on the same time (Angels) as Baylor and was more valuable to his team, producing 6 bWAR, nearly double of that as Baylor, who put up just 3.7 bWAR.
Likewise, on the Pirates, Dave Parker was worth nearly three times as much than Willie Stargell in terms of bWAR.
Baylor won because he led the league in RBIs, a poor measure because it is heavily dependent on the OBP of other batters and on batting order.
Yes - valuable player. Stargell wouldn’t have won “best player”, but he was the heart and soul of that team.
That being said, Pops absolutely deserved the ‘79 NLCS and WS MVPs. He was on a mission once the postseason started.
If Fred Lynn wins MVP in ‘79, there’s a good chance that’s enough to push him to legit HoF consideration.
Why is Harold Baines and Ron Santo in? Politics!
Very, very good video. Reminds me a bit of the 1988 NL MVP vote when my boy Darryl lost out to Gibson. Tho tbf I just looked it up on baseball reference and Gibson had a better WAR than Straw that year.
Yeah, the 1988 race is interesting. Strawberry had a good case, and so did a few others - a lot of good candidates, no great ones. Would have definitely not argued with Strawberry winning, though, if he had.
Great video and analysis!
Thank you!
Very well done!! Thnx !!
No mention of Dave Winfield? He led the NL in fWAR, bWAR, OPS+, RBI, and total bases in addition to winning a Gold Glove in RF. He was obviously far more deserving than Stargell but also more deserving than Hernandez. The bias was undoubtedly because he was on a 68 win small market team, which is a shame.
Yeah, I chose to focus on Hernandez because the tie was as notable as any part of this situation, and because Hernandez would have been a very reasonable choice to win the award outright. If we wanted to open it up to everyone, Winfield/Hernandez would have made a very good race in 2023 imo. Winfield just didnt get a mention because he didn’t get quite as egregiously screwed (in losing to Hernandez) as Lynn did. He had a great, MVP-caliber year that season though
And how many of those were used in 1979? He had more RBI. Stargell was leader and captain of a WS winning team. Winfield May have won a “Best Player” award, but that’s not what MVP stands for. He’ll have to settle for 1st ballot HOF inductee.
Keith Hernandez, he of the "Magic Loogie." Nice game, pretty boy.
Still one of my favorite Seinfeld episodes.
What a fantastic video. Keep it up
Thanks!
Looking back....My Orioles really should have done WHATEVER was necessary to keep Bobby Grich happy in Baltimore!!!! Along with Mark Belanger, these made up the smoothest double-play combo EVER!!!...They made it look easy.
Mark Belanger was 37 when he left the Orioles. They probably kept him for too long as it was.
In Ye Olden Times, things were considerably worse for great players on non-championship teams. In 1941, 1942, 1946, and 1947, Ted Williams won one AL MVP award (in 1943-45, he was busy with that WWII thing). In 1941, Teddy Ballgame hit .406. In 1942, he won the Triple Crown, in 1947, he won another Triple Crown. Zero MVPs. He did win the AL MVP in 1946. His OPS for these four years were 1.287, 1,147, 1.164, and 1.133, each a league leading figure. Williams led the league in OPS in 1948 and 1949 as well. He managed to win his second and final AL MVP award in 1949. In 1941, '42 and '47, Williams finished second to New York Yankees during years in which the Yankees won AL pennants.
How do you have less than 1000 subs? This is awesome work
One of the MVP votes I always found so weird was the 1972 AL MVP. Sure, Dick Allen won easily with his best year ever and there are some familiar names after him - Rudi, Fisk, Mercer - Wilbur Wood won 24 games and Luis Tiant won 15 with a 1.91 ERA. But Detroit's Eddie Brinkman finished 9th. Being an all glove, no bat player like Brinkman, you would figure he would have to have had his best offensive production ever to get into the top 10. But Brinkman hit .206 (yes .206) with 6 HR and 49 RBI and his Slug was only .279! Granted, he was a great defensive SS and maybe voters just appreciated it more back then. But he finished above teammate Mickey Lolich, who won 22 games and pitched 327 innings, Catfish Hunter and Jim Palmer who each won 21 and John Mayberry (.298 25HR 100 RBI). Even Hunter and Palmer hit better than Brinkman.
Brinkman's finish in the election for the 1972 AL MVP might've been influenced by his manager, Billy Martin, saying he should've been MVP that year.
Great video! One thing you left out though was the factor that Stargell missed about 50 games, if you pro-rate his numbers (not necessarily saying that you should of course) I believe he would have had 41 HRs 110 RBIs..
Not sure if the voters considered that. On its face the 79 tie used to bother me however (and I know this is not part of the actual equation) I think the way Pops won the LCS and World Series MVPs and led that magical underdog team to the Championship somewhat validates the suspect 1979 Regular season vote.
As for The AL vote Lynn just got flat out ROBBED.. and I had no idea what an incredible season he had, Thanks for the updates, Great Video
Good vid. I'd get another mic bc your voice sounds very condensed.
DYK “Pops”, Jimmy Rollins & Dontrelle willis all played at Encinal HS in Oakland.
Also, and I may be mistaken as I was 8, I believe an official or unofficial stat was GWRBI (game winning RBIs) maybe, as I’m not planning to look it up, that was also a factor. However, your numbers are sound, and your work is great. Thanks.
Maybe do Yount over Rubin Sierra MVP
Interesting video and while i agree you bring up some very interesting points about Fred Lynn getting robbed, Willie Stargell's co-win was so much more than the numbers.
Certainly - Baylor’s win was too. People cared a lot more about those other factors in awards back then, and I think that’s kinda cool! Like I say at the end, as much as it’s good to be right (by the numbers), the other way can be fun too
If Hernandez played in a home ballpark that was a HR suppressor, he might have doubled his HR total in 1979 and won the MVP outright.
When I was looking at the thumb nail I couldn't place Lynne. I had completely forgotten about his days in Boston. I still remember him on those old Angel teams.
Great video...except for one thing: absolutely no mention of Dave Winfield, who smashed 34 homers and led the league with 118 RBI and a whopping 166 OPS+. He also won a Gold Glove and came in 3rd in the balloting. (Incidentally, this was Winfield's finest season.) I understand you bringing up Dave Parker, since he also played for the "We Are Family" Pirates. And yes, I know the Padres stunk that year. But not even an honorable mention of Winfield? Good analysis overall, but I'm disappointed by this omission.
Yeah, Winfield is a guy that I definitely could have (and maybe should have) talked about. Since Keith Hernandez was a pretty good candidate in his own right, I chose to focus on him as the guy who got robbed of winning the award outright. Winfield has as good a case as anyone, though.
Right on all three counts. Lynn & Hernandez should've won the MVP awards. Also, yes the Angels front office can't put it all together.
Seeing those names brings back alot of memories. The Royals, Pirates Twins and Angels. I saw them on Tv and heard it on radio many times these guys. 76-80 so now I struggle to know who is playing today. LOL
The main reason Baylor won is RBI's, as it was considered a way more important stat back then.
this continued into the 80s with several baffling picks for MVP including a relief pitcher winning MVP in 1984 basically exclusively because he was very good in relief that year and played on the World Series champion Phillies and pretty much 100% likely would have NOT been chosen if he had not been on the World Series winning team.
I'm assuming you mean Willie Hernandez of the 1984 Tigers. He won MVP and Cy Young of the AL. The Phillies won the WS in 83 not 84 and they didn't have a pitcher win MVP either season. They had John Denny win the Cy Young award in 83 but he was a starter and i don't see how anyone could argue that he didn't deserve the Cy Young in 83, so I don't think that's who you meant. Anyways, it wasn't really "baffling", relief pitchers were just valued much more in the mid 70's thru mid 80's. There were plenty of other times in that era where a reliever almost won MVP or Cy Young award. People just had a different idea of what made a player valuable back then, and some of those aspects aren't measured on a stat sheet. In those days (and most of baseball history) MVP awards often went to a player on a team that had at least some post season success that year. The thinking, i guess is, how "valuable" were you to your team if your team didn't win games? Does it mean that they were completely wrong for giving Hernandez the award just because that line of thinking doesn't fit in line with a completely overated WAR stat that didn't even exist at the time? Or is it wrong to try to retroactively judge a decision made 40 years ago because it doesn't match current thinking?
@@unkledoda420 The Orioles beat the Phillies in the WS in '83.
@@unkledoda420The Phillies won in 1980, not 1983. And WAR, while imperfect, is by far the best all-encompassing, single metric we have to judge the value of a player. Much better than anything else in isolation.
Willie Hernandez left handed pitcher for the tigers Phillies didn't play in the world series in(1984) the padres played in the world series
@@unkledoda420 Yea that gave the relief pitcher Rollie Fingers the MVP of Rickey Henderson in 1981, both the A's and Brewers finished 1st in a weird season. It happened again in 1992 they gave the MVP to Dennis Eckersley over Kirby Puckett. Horrible voting. Even though they were HOF pitchers, all time greats were robbed. Like whose the best relief pitcher of all time, M. Rivera, okay, well then how many MVPs does he have?
As a point of comparison regarding stats versus leader ship and performing in the clutch One needs to look at Barry Bonds in the 90s Pirates he had the stats but when I came to playoff time he totally folded. I like Willie, who won the playoffs game performed like the MVP that he was.
Back in the 70s and 80s runs batted in was given much more weight than it is today.
Marty Marion won the MVP in 1944 with a 4.4 WAR (obviously didn't exist at the time but still). He ranked 14th.
13 other guys arguably had more valuable seasons and he still got the award
Yeah, a guy with a .686 OPS and 6 home runs winning an MVP looks pretty crazy in retrospect. His numbers that people would’ve cared about at that time (.267 average, 6 home runs, 63 RBI, 1 stolen base), were all not impressive at all either
How in the world did he win MVP? His team won the pennant, but teammate Stan Musial had far better stats. Musial led the NL with a .990 OPS and scored 112 runs to Marion's 50.
I'll speculate and try to answer my own question. Musial had won MVP in '43. The Cards repeated as NL champs in '44. But perhaps back then, sportswriters liked to spread the wealth around for awards. So since Musial had won it the year before, they decided to name the Cards' good defensive shortstop MVP instead.
Did his defense play a role?
Spot on with Fred Lynn!
Mike Trout should have won ROY and MVP the same year
Willie broke my heart Oriole fan.
If you are going to base awards primarily on numbers, then maybe it’s time to give out separate awards for performance of the year based on metrics, and MVP, as the latter, at least before analytics became popular, took into account unmeasurables, such as leadership abilities, which unquestionably Stargell possessed that helped push the Pirates to the World Championship. It did also takes into account team success, as one would question how valuable a player was to a team that in Hernandez’s case finished 12 games out of first in 79. In pitching there is not this problem, as one can be a dominant pitcher on a poor team and win the Cy Young, such as Steve Carlton did with the Phillies. I think a case can be made for separate awards for performance of the year and MVP. For instance Ohtani of the Angels could certainly merit performance of the year, but his presence only made the Angels a mediocre team instead of a worse one in 2021. I know I might be talking semantics, but I think a distinction can be made.
It's the Most Valuable Player Award, not The Guy With the Best Stats Award.
Thank you.
There were zoom calls in 1979? The 70's really were weird.
Been waiting for this one. Great comment
@@zachr26 Thanks nice video
K. Hernandez is a Hall of Famer!
Baylor did "feel" like he was actually the MVP that year. In an era of analysis and metrics and stats that no one had heard of back then, it's so easy to see it any number of different ways. He was clutch and his RBIs were monumental. Took the Angels to their first Division championship. It wasn't that controversial really (except to Red Sox fans probably). But they had a good team, Autry collected lots of good players. Fred Lynn was so good though and he ended up playing for the Angels!
I'm not sure if the voting is before or after the post season, but Stargell was an absolute buzzsaw in the post season winning NLCS and WS MVP. So if post season glory was fresh on the voters' minds, that probably swayed many.
Assuming it’s like today’s it is voted on before the postseason.
The MVP voting was done before the postseason, like today.
And there's no disputing that he earned both of those postseason MVP awards. He had a 1.753 OPS in the NLCS, and 1.208 in the World Series. His cWPA for the World Series, incidentally, was 38.96 - probably because his 2-run HR in the 6th inning of Game 7 gave the Pirates a 1-run lead that they never relinquished.
It seems like the MVP voters focused more on HR and RBIs back then and on into the early 80’s. MVP should be based on the best players in their respective leagues regardless of what their team record is. That goes for any sport imo.
I was going to say that but then I saw your comment. So I'll just agree.
The in-depth numbers weren't around much back then, so most people looked at the "obvious" stats like RBIs and steals and BA. Given this as the criteria, I can understand Baylor winning, like Andre Dawson in 1987.
Fred Lynn was magical with the Sox
Stargell is not not only a slugger was the heart and soul of Pittsburgh
Lynn is the most underrated outfielder ever. Perhaps it’s because he didn’t have a long career but he could do everything. Only Griffey Jr is close in skill set.
Media hyped up the Pops/we are family thing. Tho the voting is supposed to take place before the post season, I never truly believed that.
Never mind that they didn't even have stats called OPS or War back then
Fred was great at sliding to make a good catch like a great one.
Dave Parker should be in the Hall of Fame!
This might be weird to you but back then there was no such thing as WAR, OPS, OPS+ or any other SABR and advanced stats that we have today. BTW, SLG = Total Bases divided by At Bats. I have no clue how you have "SLG - in essence, at bats per plate appearance".
Good catch on the slugging percentage definition. That was a typing error. That is now fixed.
I was a baby Yankee fan back then but I had tremendous respect for the Red Sox especially Freddy Lynn he was an earlier version of the kid kind of
Fred Lynn played well after Ted Williams.
Didn’t hear you mention that Baylor also lead the league in runs leading the Angels to the franchise’s first playoff appearance…ahead of KC.
I did mention the Angels making their first ever playoff birth in 1979, around 7 and a half minutes in. That was definitely an extremely heavily contributing factor to him winning the MVP award, and in a close race, I would consider it a reasonable thing to push a candidate over the hump. (I personally wouldn’t consider Baylor vs Lynn/Brett to be all that close, but I can understand the argument, even though I don’t agree with it)
0:00: I in all honesty, didn't recognize Mike Schmidt right away since he doesn't have his moustache.
Why is it weird that in the 70’s they voted for players that were MOST VALUABLE not had the best stats.
Who cares if a guy hits a ton of home runs and has a high average if the extreme majority of his rbi and he’s come when the game is a blowout but when the game is close, he strikes out? Or a player that is near the league lead in getting thrown out for stupid hustle? I’m talking about bryce harper- 2021 mvp despite not one important hit and a low average in important games. The 2021 Phillies had a better record in games harper didn’t play than games he did play. So who cares about stats? A-Rod win mvp for last place teams.
Change the name of the award or create another for “best stats” because modern mvp’s aren’t necessarily valuable.
As a Phillies fan it disgusts me watching harper strikeout in big situations.
$300 million for 2 big hits in 4 years.
Who is more valuable? The guy who hits a homerun in a 10-1 game or the guy that hits .250 but gets a bases clearing double when the team needs it and does it consistently? Pressure situations are when players show how valuable they are- Chase Utley played better the more tense the situation mr overrated harper wilts in the moment, but Harper has two mvp’s because he had gassy numbers- but I’ll take Utley every day of the week and beat you 5 out of 7.
Mvp voting and hall of fame voting are a joke because they are done by arrogant petty sportswriters
Have you stopped to consider they took in things that can't be measured in stats?
Lynn failing to win the 1979 AL MVP was a ******* joke, even worse than Keith Hernandez not winning the NL award outright.
Stargell and the Pirates won the World Series in 1971 & 1979. Stargell had a slightly better season than Torre in 71 (check out the WAR), and they robbed him of the MVP that year, so I think they were trying to make up for it (It's a clear robbery when you have better numbers and your team finishes 1st). In 1979 Stargell also won NLCS MVP and also the World Series MVP. So him winning the regular season MVP was sort of the trifecta. Parker won All Star MVP, so the Pirates took over baseball that year. Oh and the Steelers won the super bowl that year too.
JR Richard should have won the Cy Young Award in 1979.
Who was more more "Valuable" than Willie Stargell to a team in 1979? Pops influence on We are Family Pirates and leadership won a World Series. Although Fred Lynn did get hosed in 1979, it was because Jim Rice had an Awesome season as well, and took votes away.
Even as an 11 year old in '79 it made no sense to me that a player with fewer than 400 at bats won the MVP award. Stargell won based on the whole "Pops" persona. In the AL, the entire season was about Don Baylor but, yes, Fred Lynn had the better year, his last great year. Another silly MVP was Kirk Gibson in '88 with a grand total of 76 RBIs, which was not even tops on his team.
‘88 was a weird MVP vote, in that there wasn’t really a slam dunk candidate outside of Gibson either. A lot of decent candidates (Strawberry, Will Clark, etc had a good case) but nobody that was, like, terribly robbed by Gibson winning it either.
That stat should be Lynn, Ichiro & Judge
Yep! Judge was robbed...
Stargell was given a lot of votes simply because people felt he was 'owed' an MVP due to not winning it in a few monster seasons earlier in his career. A sort of lifetime achievement award. Dave Parker had a better season than Willie on the very same team and got very little MVP support.
Dave Winfield was the best player in the league that season.
Well done!!
The 1979 AL MVP has been on my mind most of my life.
I started following Lynn when he was an Oriole. It's a shame he wasn't healthier. He had absolute HoF talent.
Don Baylor’s MVP is very easy to explain: voters have historically had an irrational love for RBI. Add in the fact that the Angels made their first-ever playoff appearance, and his MVP makes perfect sense from a voter’s perspective.
Basically, Don Baylor was the Juan Gonzalez of his time.
yea, boomer baseball fans believe RBIs and Wins are the only stats that really matter
You play to win the game! Hello?!? -- Herman Edwards.
Playing a little Devil's Advocate, should we be holding MVP voters accountable using statistics that didn't exist in 1979 (WAR, OPS, OPS+)?
Baylor won because of the RBIs, a stat that used to be given a weight out of proportion to its value.
These are cases where voters were voting for players who were on teams who won their division
Dave Winfield should've gotten more votes.
Absolutely
How did Fred Lynn make 9X all-star teams, win an AL MVP, have a career BA of .283, and still not make the HOF?
Popularity contest
WAR and OPS+ had not been invented yet ... and very few thought of OPS
1987 Bell vs Trammell
Fred Lynn had Jim Rice,Carlton Fisk who team's had to pitch to him, Don Baylor had ????
Prime Keith Hernandez is the most handsome man in history
Analytics is ruining the game. It has it's place but Christ too many people have watched Moneyball and think that's what really matters.
The MVP is usually debatable. Stargell was not the best player on the Bucs in '79 but he was the spiritual center of the team and the glue. There are elements that are not captured in numbers. I thought he deserved MVP in 1971 instead of Joe Torre. I don't think that was necessarily in the voters minds, but 1979 may have made up for 1971.
There is the question of a great player on a bad team or at least a mediocre team.
The Phillies were very bad in 1972, but where would they have been without Steve Carlton's 27-10 record with a 1.97 ERA? He led both leagues with a 12.5 WAR, which is a reflection on how good he was.
In 1970, the Big Red Machine got in gear and Johnny Bench won his first MVP. A great player in a great year, yes. However, was he more valuable than 2nd place vote getter Billy Williams? Bench had 148 rbis to Williams' 129 and 45 home runs to 42. Billy had a higher batting average .322 to .293 and more hits 205 to 177. He also scored 40% more runs than Bench did 137 to 97. Adding runs and rubs together, he outdistanced Bench 266 to 245. A case can be made that he was more effective producing runs than Bench was in 1970. Bench was clearly better defensively. A question is whether Bench was more valuable to the Reds than Williams was to Cubs which I think is inconclusive. The Reds probably would have still won the NL West without Bench. The Cubs would have probably double digits games behind the Pirates in the East instead of 5 back.
Remember the name of the award is Most "Valuable" Player not Best Player.
1984 Willie Hernandez do that one.
Check the betting lines for n the 79 mvp. I would bet someone made some good loot choosing a rando like Baylor