Shoegaze and Grunge Compared
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- čas přidán 29. 06. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
0:54 Origins
1:52 Etymology
2:46 Lyricism
3:29 Sonic Characteristics
4:47 Influential Shoegaze Bands
5:46 Influential Grunge Bands
6:36 Grungegaze
6:56 Commercial Popularity
7:18 Periods of Success
7:46 Revival
8:35 Conclusion
/ stainedglassnate
Songs that appear in the video:
1. Swirlies - Pancake
2. Nirvana - You Know You're Right
3. My Bloody Valentine - When You Sleep
4. Pearl Jam - Alive
5. Slowdive - Sleep
6. Alice in Chains - Them Bones
7. Ride - Here and Now
8. Sound Garden - Black Hole Sun
9. Candy Claws - White Seal (Shell & Spine)
10. Foo Fighters - Everlong
Sources:
www.britannica.com/art/grunge...
faroutmagazine.co.uk/what-is-...
www.masterclass.com/articles/...
www.masterclass.com/articles/...
www.revolutioncomeandgone.com/...
www.shoegazecraze.com/what-is... - Hudba
I think smashing pumpkins blended shoegaze and grunge super well especially in their Siamese dream album
I agree
second that
BOTH primitive unintelligent dumb form of NOISE! If you are evolute intelligent listen to AOR Prog and Yacht rock where REAL singers and Musicians play REAL rock music.
that's what i thought. billy corgan's musical vision is incredible. smashing pumpkins were totally different to any grunge bands in that time
definetely
Shoegaze is like a manic pixie dream girl and grunge is like the boyfriend who is broke, depressed and probably addicted to some drug
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Great analogy
Why is this so accurate 😃
I don't think shoegaze necessarily "inspires a greater appreciation for life" though lol
So basically the same thing. minus vagina.
so what i'm reading is that i'm a manic pixie dream depressed guy? makes sense lol
I love both genres, but I used to be way more into Grunge when I was younger, nowadays I kinda prefer Shoegaze. Love your channel, keep those videos coming!
I had a similar experience! Initially, I was much more of a grunge fan, namely STP and Nirvana. Over the years I've shifted more in favor of shoegaze. Thank you for your encouraging words!
@@StainedGlassStories STP isn't grunge the hell lol
same!
@@joshuafult84stone temple pilots are grunge?
@@RhysGBiv yes??
I like bands like Swervedriver, Smashing Pumpkins, Love Battery and Drop Nineteens because they made a kind of fusion of both music styles and sounds interesting. Heavy but dreamy at the same time
.......I saw Swervedriver at the Stone Balloon in Newark Delaware in 1997.
.....Hum opened for them. ......I have a swervedriver t-shirt feom this show. ...the front has a string of guitar pedals.
Check out Truly. They were a mini-'supergroup' with Hiro Yamamoto from Soundgarden and Mark Pickerel from Mudhoney and Screaming Trees. Very much grungegaze.
@@robwalsh9843........I think what made those types of bands (sometimes) consistent, was the time and place in history. .....which was the wall-of-sound, guitar centric era. ........late 80s - 90s.
......do you like the band Loop? ...ever see the video Firefly by the band Levitation? .....
....I'll check out the band you mentioned above.
Smashing Pumpkins is another band that in my opinion have one foot set in grunge and the other in shoe gaze. I say this mostly because of Siamese Dream.
Catherine Wheel & Hum too!
I love both grunge and shoegaze. Nirvana, The Smashing Pumpkins, Slowdive, Lush...all fantastic.
Smashing Pumpkins are the perfect blend between the two. Gish in particular
@@nicolot4652 I still have to listen to Gish. I'm surprised I haven't to this day, since Siamese Dream is probably my favourite album of all time.
@@pizzatime2001 Corgan admitted they were trying to rip off MBV in a lot of songs
Great bands on both ends! Love The Smashing Pumpkins as well.
BOTH primitive unintelligent dumb form of NOISE! If you are evolute intelligent listen to AOR Prog and Yacht rock where REAL singers and Musicians play REAL rock music.
Smashing Pumpkins's Gish sounds like the perfect balance between Shoegaze and Grunge for me.
I think Siamese Dream actually balances them better
@@killerinstinctstudios9065 it’s more shoegaze than grunge to me tbh
Gish is a masterpiece
Siamese Dream is their Shoegaze meets Nirvana album.
@@Mark95876 nop not nirvana
I love both of the genre, but I definitely prefer shoegaze much more due to the wall of sounds, swirls and ethereal voices, the genre itself made a lot of sense to my life in general. I remember getting into my bloody valentine and the shoegaze genre when I turn 18 especially with loveless that changed my life and my musical direction, this was when most people in my age group that I know were listening to fall out boy, my chemical romance, bullet for my Valentine, the killers, arctic monkeys (only to name a few in 2005/6), somehow getting into the shoegaze genre made me step away from the mainstream culture what was happening at the time. Even since them I got into Bands like LoOp, Moose, Lush, Ariel, Ringo Deathstarr, Heroes of Switzerland, slowdive, no joy, nothing etc.
Thank you for sharing your story, Matt! That's an interesting transition to go from mid-2000s rock to shoegaze. Do you remember how you first came across Loveless? I think that one of the joys of stepping out of the mainstream culture is to find like-minded individuals who enjoy a particular genre or band like you do. You listed some great groups there, but I most admit that I haven't yet listened to Heroes of Switzerland. I will make sure to give them a listen. Personally I think my interest in shoegaze sparked when I was 19. I was (and still am) a fan of the song "Lazy Eye" by Silversun Pickups and I wanted to hear more music like it. From there I discovered My Bloody Valentine, Lush, Slowdive, among other shoegaze bands.
@@StainedGlassStories before I got into shoegaze I was listening to At The Drive-In, Biffy Clyro, Hundred Reasons, Idlewild, Sonic Youth, Fugazi, Nirvana.
@@gazeunderthesunmusic At The Drive-In are great.
As a 2002 born kid, I’ve got 18 years old in 2020, I’m from a different generation so I didn’t live thoses years. But, I got into shoegaze probably 3-4 years ago, and mostly grew up with my father metal music like System of a down, nevermore, Megadeth and many more I’m forgetting he also listened to newer stuff also. But anyway I ended up going on my own musical journey in 2019, typical existential crisis, and went through electro, synth-wave,industrial, german metal… wich lead me after some years in two directions, it brought me back to metal and made me rediscover and truly appreciate a lot of things i grew up with and I slowly got into heavier, nowadays mostly: Technical Death metal /Deathcore/ Blackened Deathcore (with bands like: Inferi, Signsoftheswarm, Lorna shore, Shadow intent, the archaic epidemic…and more) so yeah pretty hard complex stuff but it’s absolutely amazing. On the other hand I started to listen to a lot of unconventional atmospheric music (that sadly not one person I know of my age seems to like except a few goth girls who likes Deftones ahah. But yeah I discovered Shoegaze, grunge, indie rock, postmetal, it touches a spot in my head with thoses highs, the dissonance and the constant walls of sound, it feels like floating and getting lost in my own head. With amazing bands like: DIIV, Nothing, Mondaze,Softcult, True Widow, Gleue, Smelter, Cursetheknife, Mr lonely, Knifeplay, Winter, Glare, Greywave, Loveseat Pete, Tarbox, Now Now, ODDNESS, Prize Horse and much more…
I remember when I was a junior in college in 1994, I bought Soundgarden's SuperUnknown on the day of its release then took the CD with me the next day to France for my semester abroad. The kids in my French host family and I were totally blown away by it and it got a lot of play during that time and by summer it was a huge hit all over Europe. So many good memories... such a good time to be alive and young.
Dude, I have the same rhing! Look I was a little young when grunge was big, but my sister was 13 and into it. She would play it all day and since her room next to mine and only seperated by a plaster wall, I would hear it too.
Later when I was a teen, grunge and especially Soundgarden just lime, took over. I have many many memories fuswd with SG's music, both good and bad. I listen to their albums at least once a week every week even now.
When Chris passed away, I felt like part of my life was ereased, I know that is verg selfish, but I can't help it. His music (also with Temple of the Dog and Audioslave) was cursial in my survival it seems. When I was depressed, I mean really depressed, music was the only thing I got (so it seemed) and it never let me down.
My dad was in the Navy and stationed at Joint Ops Naples in the early 90's. My extended family is also from WA, OR, NV, CO, UT, and/or NorCal. CD's and tapes from back home were like gold. Going to an American Overseas School (Naples American aka Forrest-Sherman) meant my classmates were mostly kids of US Navy, Marine and Air Force types, plus British, Canadian, etc. But it was a group that also included kids of rich and/or royal Euros, and they were insane for American records. My tapes of Nevermind and Badmotorfinger as well as my CD of Temple of the Dog went around like crazy, and this being the era of the Maxell CR90 tape....
I didn't discover Shoegaze (My Bloody Valentine) until I was 60+ and had thought I had already heard it all. What an awakening that was -- it's never too late to be completely blown away by something!
Loved the comparison format this video. Shoegaze & grunge will forever be my top genres
Thank you soy de mars! I'm glad to read that you enjoy both genres.
BOTH primitive unintelligent dumb form of NOISE! If you are evolute intelligent listen to AOR Prog and Yacht rock where REAL singers and Musicians play REAL rock music.
it was really cool of you to give that shoutout in the intro. no one wouldve been able to tell you were inspired by him if you didnt say it yourself but you still did. really cool of you.
Agreed
The Verve (before Urban Hymns) is one of the most amazing and underrated Shoegaze bands of the early 90s and deserves a mention!
Here, here!
Correct
The first 3 Verve singles are good. Declined after Gravity Grave, in my humbles... It was all down hill when they became The Verve.
1000% agree
Good to know I’m not alone on this
Grunge+Shoegaze is the best combo.
Great combination!
grunge+shoegaze=the smashing pumpkins
@@rottenapple6340 what album would you recommend to get into the smashing pumpkins?
for grunge gaze (modern) check out superheaven, narrow head, modern color and teenage wrist’s 2018 album
@@julia-gz6qe siamese dream
I remember discovering Shoegaze in the mid-2000s while falling down into the Pop-Punk, Alternative, Emo pipeline. The depth of the sound and mostly melancholic tone of it spoke to me a lot
@kyfaydfsoab What do you mean? And why the lol?
@@ARMORXV he’s calling you gay
I really appreciate the fact you have a part in your description with the songs you used a lot of videos don’t have that and it made looking for them so much easier
Seattle local here, love grunge and shoegaze!! Super awesome to grow up in the area all my favourite bands did too. Great video, and love your channel! I'm looking forward to seeing you grow even more!
Greetings from Mankato, Minnesota! I went on vacation to Seattle last summer and I've loved the PNW ever since. With that being said, thank you so much for your kind words! I truly appreciate your support :)
I was in middle and high school during the rise and fall of shoegaze in the PNW. I ended up tired of hearing about grunge, but always appreciated Soundgarden. Growing up in a small town about 3 hours out of any major city, info was hard to come by, but thankfully having older siblings meant I could go with them to the record store. Ended up getting into 4AD bands and their shoegaze bands (Pale Saints, Lush) and after that, MTV's 120 Minutes introduced me to MBV via the video for Only Shallow. I have grown to appreciate grunge more, but I am a much bigger shoegaze fan. The new stuff coming out in the genre, along with the re-emergence of the old guard, has been wonderful.
I'm kinda amazed you went through a Shoegaze comparison video without mentioning Cocteau Twins, possibly one of the most influential shoegaze groups.
They are dream pop, not Shoegaze.
@@photonfartsqueeze6694 Which is in someways just proto shoegaze. shrugs.
I should have mentioned the Cocteau Twins, and certainly will if I do a deeper dive into the genre. TBH I'm trying to remember why I didn't, and the only reason I can think of is that Kevin Shields has said he wasn't really influenced by their music while recording Loveless. I personally wouldn't consider their material shoegaze (except for maybe their Love's Easy Tears EP).
Thank you! You beat me to it!
@@ghost_mall facts
Imagine an alternate universe where My Bloody Valentine became the most iconic band of the 90s and Grunge was just in the underground.
Nah I dont wanna imagine that
That would be even worse.
@@speedking7224 whyyy tho
@@brandonislemons nah I just don't don't like shoegaze......fair enough if you do.
That would suck
Thank you for your video. Very interesting. I’m truly addicted to MBV. Sometimes I think grunge is the rowdy brother of shoegaze.
You're very welcome A.E. Etador! Well said, grunge is certainly more aggressive than shoegaze. I'm addicted to My Bloody Valentine too!
I used to looove grunge in high school, I still do, but the more older I get the more I fall in love with shoegaze
@ghost mall for me I like both grunge & indie rock its just a matter of having a right balance wit what you're listen too
Metalhead at heart, but also a huge Pearl Jam fan since a young age, recently discovered the joy of listening to Soundgarden. Wish I would've found them sooner. R.I.P Chris.
Love that you gave Taylor Hawkings a shout out and RIP, and then played a snippet from a song that Dave Grohl famously played the drum parts on.
I'm a metalhead, but man, 90s alternative rock genres are so sweet and sick at the same time! I discovered shoegaze few days ago and it immediately reminded me grunge bands. It's funny to shift AIC songs with MBV songs...
Shoegaze & Grunge are both the sonic versions of abstract expressionism that just have two different interpretations on the same kind of melancholy feelings
58 yr old shoegaze fan. Perfect on your selection as top 3. I'd have to say an honorable mention could be arguably the founding band of sg: Cocteau Twins. Great job on grunge as well. Nailed it with AIC's Dirt
Nice to hear from a late Boomer/early Gen X’er who doesn’t obnoxiously maintain that no good music was made after 1987. ✌️
@@austintrousdale2397 Thanks Austin, appreciate that
.... love, love new music. Always searching and finding great music to this day. Spotify is my friend and creates the soundtrack of my life. Cheers
I've always liked shoegaze (psychedelic rock as we called this style back in the time) than grunge (noise punk). Growing up back in the late '80s, '90s and '00s. Its all under alt rock category though. Similar. I'm GenXer, in my 40s now. Know a lot of the music. Liked and listened to both. But shoegaze to me was more chill and less angrier than grunge. So I listened to more shoegaze back then.
this video is fantastic! not even a minunte in and i was hooked. You packed so much information into a ten mintue video, very well done
Love the Mr. Beat shout out! Been a long time fan of him. Glad I found your channel through this video and I look forward to what's to come!:)
At the time that both genres were emerging, I was absolutely on "Team Shoegaze", being a big fan of MBV, Lush, Ride, Slowdive as well as other related Brit bands like Cocteau Twins, Chapterhouse, Charlatans UK ( as they were referred to here in the U.S. ) and Happy Mondays. As a musician going to jams over the years, some of the Grunge material started making it's way into the "curriculum" of tunes that might come up in the "so, whaddaya wanna play?" back-and-forth during jam sessions, Open Mics, etc. As a result, I started to gain more of an appreciation of some of the Grunge tunes that most people know and play. As of yet, I still don't own any Grunge albums, but I do now have a few dozen songs in the genre that I can honestly say that I like
I love both, including the fusion of the two which many have called “grungegaze”. There’s a band I like called Slow Crush that emulates this pretty well. Definitely gotta check out that Swervedriver band
I'm trying to start a grungegaze band right now. Might sound silly but i actually like the term, describes perfectly the style of music i like to make. Love both genres.
check soul blind bro, the hate5six set with soundboard audio is immense
hate to break it to ya, but all those bands are just Emo bands
@@gsly6081 trend will be dead in 18 months, i wouldn't recommend it
I think the band Failure deserves a mention here. They blended elements of grunge and and shoegaze incredibly well. Fantastic Planet and Magnified are masterpieces.
I love this channel so much I could cry. Excellent content. Thank you for everything you do!
That is so nice of you to say, vissey! I truly value your support, and I promise I will do my best to put out enjoyable content in the future!
As a fan of both genres I kinda wish alternative rock had evolved more to incorporate elements of both, kinda like Narrowhead
It has, there’s tons of bands that are grunge-gaze and it’s amazing. Teenage Wrist, Modern Color, Superbloom to name a few
Narrowhead is pretty great.
THIS! I was absolutely thinking of Narrow Head as a kind of "mix" between the two genres. They've quickly become one of my favorite bands
The Smashing Pumpkins had elements of both.
I turned 23 in 1991 and my whole life I have loved late 1960s music. Once hearing once Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Stone Temple Pilots, Alice in chains, etc. my whole life was changed. I finally loved the current bands which represented my generation X status. Everything you said is very accurate and my vote is definitely for grunge in the early 1990s
Great for you man tbh I'm a early 2000s kid and yet I like listening to grunge and basically alternative/indie music from the 90s, 2000s, and even the 2010s real shit
I turned 11 in 1991 and I loved grunge bands. except, I only like pearl jam "Hits", and I only liked Soundgarden "Hits"...yup, I love every single Smashing Pumpkins song on every album they have ever made...mostly.
I just turned 30 so I was born when all these bands were in their prime. I discovered shoegaze about five years ago through a random Spotify playlist and have been hooked ever since. I've always been a fan of electronica, new wave, and post punk. I'm huge sucker for a deep, meloncholic sound and shoegaze hits the mark just right.
If there's one way i would describe Shoegaze, it'd be comforting.Sometimes It feels like a invisible blanket is covering my body and even my brain giving me a message that everything's going be okay. Other times it feels like a water falls rushing down on my brain...it feels REALLY good when that happens! XD I love all the classic bands of the genre; My Bloody Valentine, Slowdive, Pale Saints. The lists goes on; despite this I the first Shoegaze song I remember hearing was actually this song called Ginger by Mr. Twin Sister ( or at the time when they made the song, Twin Sister). I say that given how that band has a very different sound for their albums, jumping from Indie Rock, Ambient, House, etc. And other bands like Hazel English and Alvvays being my next discoveries with the classic bands afterwords. Anyways, this video is great! Very nice! :)
Depends on how I'm feeling. And if I wake up with a song in my head. Music is always in my head.
Hey man, can you talk about the album "Dynamo" from Soda Stereo, it's an argentine shoegaze album inspired by Loveless from My Bloody Valentine, it was released in 92 and it's considered the best Soda Stereo album, sadly it isn't very known because it is in Spanish but i think the experience it's still genuine, hope you read this, great content btw
Definitely excited to see where this channel goes, love this video.
Thank you very much Thriayehm! You have my commitment to upload as interesting content as possible!
Cool video essay, this is the first video I watched of yours.
That's very interesting. I've never really noticed just how similar the two genres are. No wonder I love both sides. And I'm glad to see the Shoegazing scene re-emerging.
Catherine Wheel was probably the best of those types of bands. I'm not sure which genre they fit in but they were talented.
They are a hybrid mix between Alternative Rock and Shoegaze
I love your videos!
Your channel has taught me a lot about music.
I need to find more influences for my band.
I'd like to see your take on other genres like Punk, Nu Metal, Thrash Metal, Funk Rock, Indie, etc.
I’m a fan of both genres, but I fall more into the grunge side of things. There’s something about the rawness of it that I enjoy a lot. To go even further I’d say I like the softer side of grunge. My favorite Nirvana/AiC albums have to definitely be their MTV Unplugged albums. Literally any of the songs off either of albums are amazing. And if I had to pick some specific Nirvana stuff I’d definitely say About a Girl, All Apologies, or Come As You Are are all great songs that to me are the outliers in their albums because they’re not as “loud” as the others. Anything of the songs off AiC MTV Unplugged is amazing too!
Im a big grunge fan but I've never heard the word shoegaze before, so thanks for educating me.
I always appreciate to learn new things about topics I love
I think that one good example where grunge and shoegaze collided is Hum. Hum is a very underrated grunge/shoegaze band in my opinion. Grunge was more popular back then. It still is nowadays. Kurt is an icon and his image was made a brand, that’s barely arguable. But post grunge received a lot of criticism, and I’d argue that future looks “brighter” in terms of success to shoegaze than to post grunge. Because in 21st century we currently had gone through amazing artists since the late 00’s with bands like LSD and the Search for God to the release of last Slowdive’s album. I really think it is just a matter of time until MBV release something else (I really have high hopes on this!).
EDIT: I loved the video, awesome work!! :)
I will have to check Hum out, I've never listened to them before. Your analysis is spot on. In terms of commercial popularity, grunge easily prevails. As far as I am aware, however, I don't think there are really any exciting new post-grunge bands out right now. On the other hand, there are many innovative shoegaze musicians that point towards a brighter future for the genre. I think there is more room for creativity and evolution in shoegaze, while grunge has almost kind of become a retro genre. Thank you for your kind words, I'm really glad to read that you enjoyed the video :)
@@StainedGlassStories yeah exactly, post grunge is really off nowadays, but shoegaze has been changing a lot with new noisy bands like Whirr, Nothing, Slow Crush, Gleemer, Flyying Colours, it’s a never ending list. And no worries, just keep it up with these videos, it might doesn’t seem but these are indeed a great contribution to the genre and to make it accessible and updated. It still feels ultra interesting to know about shoegaze both past and present. So yeah, all I can say is that, we appreciate your job haha
@@jpomsa Thank you so much! Those are all excellent bands you listed, and the list truly is neverending. One of my favorite lesser-known shoegaze bands is a Brazilian group called Devilish Dear. That's exactly my goal though for this channel, to make the genre more accessible to potential new listeners!
Hum was incredible! My favorite show from high school.
I think Hum is a Heavy Alternative Rock band that borrows elements from Shoegaze and a bit from Grunge
I think The House of Love's criminally underrated debut album in 1988, not purely a Shoegaze record, but songs like "Christine" are a masterpiece of the genre and deserves some attention.
Thanks forgot about them
....the video Firefly by Levitation is terry bickers band after leaving H Of L..
Great video, very interesting to hear the comparisons! We are in exiting times to witness the revival of Shoegaze, so many innovative bands forwarding the sound yet also keeping it true to it's roots.
I love how our descriptions of shoegaze are close to a perfect match.
Great video and spot on. I'm 44 years old and shoegaze and grunge were my era. I was a huge fan of Slowdive, MBV and Nirvana - that was my musical education. Really happy to see these bands still enjoyed by younger generations 🙌
I’m an original shoegazer, and although I lived through grunge, I have come to love it recently. I can see the beauty in both kinds of fuzzy goodness.
i do love grunge and more familiar with it and this video was so informational and fun to watch. if you could do more grunge videos that would be awesome
i love your videos i always learn about a band or artist that i didn't know existed
Thank you Tesco Manager (I like your profile pic btw)! It makes me so happy to hear that I introduced new music to people.
As a fan that was 16 years old at the end of 1991, I loved all these bands. It makes me sort of sad that Spundgarden is best known for Super Unknown. It’s a great CD, don’t get me wrong, but some of their earlier albums are my favorite and very superb. Louder than Love being my favorite. Chris Cornell is my favorite songwriter, but Alice In Chains is my favorite. They put in many great works, both metal and acoustic, I’m a short amount of time. Soundgarden a close very close second for me.
Thanks for this. Though I didn’t necessarily learn anything new because you presented a broad brush when explaining the two genres but I understand and appreciate any attention given to shoegaze. I loved both shoegaze and grunge at different times in my life, but definitely love Shoegaze more now. Thank you! Keep the videos coming!
I wanna jump in a time machine and stay forever in the late 80s / early 90s...
Love them both equally! 😍 Great vid - have subbed 👍
Those were my college and college radio years. What a time for music! Besides all this we had the Stone Roses, Nine Inch Nails, Nick Cave, Mercury Rev, the Jesus Lizard..
Take me with you
@@heavenlywells3818 You are welcome to jump aboard... 😁
@@masonb9788 Nice list! For me, it all started with The Jesus and Mary Chain around 1985, and exploded from there! My Bloody Valentine, House of Love, Dinosaur Jr, The Cocteau Twins, Slowdive, Pearl Jam, Pixies, Sonic Youth... the list goes on...
Listening to Soundgarden's A-Sides CD on my Iphone as I type! 😁
Im Too
My incredibly simplistic take is that shoegaze is music to calm yourself to, and grunge gets you fired up.
When I was in high school in those years 90s. We just called all of this music as alternative rock. We didn't have half a million terms or subgenres for all of this 😆 . I mean the media did lump a lot of bands as "grunge" but those bands were basically punk rock, garage rock bands from the Pacific Northwest. And shoegaze was pretty much noise rock, very fuzzy psychedelic rock with chill vocals. I guess I liked "shoegaze" more back then.
Grunge was ok but came off kinda whiny and angry at times, kinda screamo emo.
Thanks! I liked the special mention about Swervedriver, I totally agree. Like this presentation. It helped me confirmed what I observed and I think it'll somehow guide me how I'll write or create. Thanks again!
Kyle, thank you so much for your support! I'm so happy this video could provide some guidance :). I wish you the best of luck in your creative endeavors. I'd love to see your creations someday when it's complete!
I came of age during the early '90s discovering this stuff and looking back with this video something becomes clear. Largely due to geography, Nirvana were quickly labelled "grunge", but that term always evoked a more "produced" masculine and riff centric vibe for me. Aic, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, etc. Great bands but aesthetically very different to Nirvana, who embraced lofi, outsider art themes. Lyrically, Nirvana's north west roaring angst was grunge maybe. But in terms of attitude, production, atmosphere, dress sense, etc, they were really closer to the shoegazing/ indie rock vibe. Obviously I'm not being as facetious as to suggest Nirvana were shoegaze, but when you look at their whole image it's much closer to UK indie/ cardigan/ t shirt culture than the denim, tattooed, goaty grunge vibe.
Alice In Chains, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam are wrongly perceived as some quintessential grunge bands. Pearl Jam are more of a 70's style trad rock than grunge. Soundgarden and AIC are more grungy hard rock than proper grunge. The epitome of grunge sound would be bands like The Wipers, The U-Men, early Melvins, Malfunkshun, Dinosaur Jr, Green River, The Fluid, Mudhoney, Skin Yard, Blood Circus, Love Battery, Rein Sanction.
That's because grunge isn't a real genre.
NIrvana - a mix of punk and noise rock
Pearl Jam - Old-school hard rock
Soundgarden - Alt. Metal that transitioned over to a sort of Neo-Psychadelic
AIC - Alt. Metal.
I could go on, none of the so-called 'grunge' bands have anything in common. Grunge was just a media term created to describe any band with a guitar that became prominent in the 90s.
We were doing such a good job of burying grunge for the past 20 years to instead highlight 90s indie acts like Pavement, Stereolab, Dinosaur Jr., Pixies, PJ Harvey, Beat Happening, Built to Spill, Modest Mouse, etc..
Now people are acting like grunge has been relevant this entire time and is some storied genre and that groups like Alex in Chains and Soundgarden are not boring butt rock bands for jocks and dudes who think Jim Morrison is way cool. I hate it.
@@NewGrooveVinylClub Jim Morrison is way cool.
interesting observation
I love how you mentioned Candy Claws. I feel like they get overlooked. Everyone I've talked to has never heard of them. Ceres & Calypso is such an otherworldy and beautiful record.
Yes!
That one Sweet Trip album is wild it’s like a fusion of shoegaze and edm type stuff
Great Video! Thanks for the upload!
It was easy for me to fell from Grunge to Shoegaze. always bringing such interesting topics :)
Thank you Abeja :) I love both of the genres!
I had heard of Dinosaur Jr., My Bloody Valentine, and Jesus & Mary Chain many years ago, but SHOEGAZE as a named style is totally new to me. I came across it February 4, 2023 in a 2022 interview with Smashing Pumpkin Billy Corgan. He talks about how he wanted to know how Alan Moulder mixed MBV's "Loveless" album. I am a big fan of Grunge and have albums by most of the well known bands. The Smashing Pumpkins are one of my favorite bands of all, up there with Pink Floyd among my obsessions. This morning I ordered copies of the MBV albums Loveless, Isn't Anything, the Compilation of 1988-1991 EPs. I'm taking a deep dive into Shoegaze!
Great short and well researched video comparison. Also nice little call out to Swervedriver who was one of my favorites and deserves more mention for their blending of styles and consistent sonic sound of their own. One thing to add is a focus on the rhythms in both. I played drums around this time original and some cover bands and the influence was everywhere. I think due to the UK origins of shoegaze the drums tend to focus at times on dancing rhythms mixed with chaos. The fact that MBV Loveless has a mostly all programmed drums speaks to another level of technology, syncopation and hypnotic elements using technology which doesn’t get enough attention. The story behind it is insane as well. The drummer and band were experiencing such challenges to get the record done in multiple studios producing mostly
By themselves with little encouragement and difficulty in finding causes the drummer to lose the use of his lower body for some medical reason probably partially due to the stress. In any case - there is also a wild
Chaotic side to shoegaze to contrast the hypnosis swirls and In some
Bands that went to the drumming more and some to for sure guitar. Grunge mixed nothing dance like in beats and merges more quiet loud. Or sometimes pretty and chaotic but always driving. Slower beats and heavier downward impulses. Master players helped both genres in some of the l defining bands you listed like Matt Cameron on drums for the hard rock to be flushed towards the 70s more than Shoegaze. Guitarist like Andy Bell from Ride doesn’t get the credit he deserves also for being a master painter of sonic harmonies and wildness - often overshadowed by the sheer uniqueness of MBVs most potent mix of male and female vocals / aggressive and gentleness. The contrasting elements are inside these two often very loud styles of music.
Shoegaze was took a lot of inspiration from late era UK post punk, and mid to late 80’s goth rock; mixing it with some of the alternative sounds coming from the US. Grunge was really more of a meeting between alternative and metal. Nirvana was really rooted in American alternative rock and punk; but the other major grunge bands were all incorporating metal or traditional hard rock to some degree. Which makes it kind of funny that grunge became the genre to define “alternative rock” in most peoples minds.
Spot on and the reason why some of the 20 somethings in the UK listening to punk/goth/alt music went mad for Bleach.
I love it when this site recommends quality videos like this to me! Grunge is my preference, but I'll check out thos 3 shoegaze albums for sure
I love both. Moose, Pale Saints, Slowdive , Boo Radleys, MBV and Ride were my favorites
Love all of them as well! Funnily enough, I used to associate Boo Radleys with the Britpop scene. It took me years to find out that they were initially a shoegaze band. Everything's Alright Forever is a classic!
The Finest Kiss by Boo Radleys is classic shoegaze
@@MikeSchismX Agreed!
I saw the Boos supporting Dinosaur Jr. Do you rememeber Chapterhouse, great shoegaze album. What about bands like Spacemen 3? or more unknown like 5:30?
@TTFPouyii what?
Would love to see this style of video with other genres such as Trip Hop, and Dream Pop, which are both interconnected with Shoegaze.
Yes! Becoming X by Sneaker Pimps is one of my favorite albums under this umbrella.
Trip Hop is connected to Dream Pop/Shoegaze??
UK electronica music is great. needs more attention imo
I like your compare/contrast analysis here. Good video! Another good metric could be how much of the band's gear was still intact by the end of the show. ;)
Youre literally listting a bunch of my old LP's in this video :)
That's awesome man! Sounds like you have great taste in music :)
@@StainedGlassStories I was 17 in the 1990 was all my era.
I've never even heard of shoegaze. The prime music of my life was 80's punk and 90's grunge. I grew up in the PNW though, so maybe I was too close to look anywhere else. Still love it.
Seems like BS music nerds came up with for bands that nobody heard of.
The term “Shoegaze” was coined by fans. And the term “Grunge” was manufactured by the media as a marketing scheme to sell Seattle bands that was originally said as joke by bands.
Mark Arm, the vocalist for the Seattle band Green River and also Mudhoney is generally credited as being the first to use the term grunge to describe this sort of music because the media would call Sub Pop Records and ask to describe their music and they would just jokingly say “Grungy crap” and the media turned that into “Grunge”. It got so ridiculous that MTV and The Rolling Stone would call and ask for “Grunge Lingo” and they would just sit around laughing making up words that would later be in magazines.
Exactly. As in, 'He's a shoe gazer,' meaning he listens to that type of music where the fans sway to the music with their heads down. So, started off as a fun, slightly derogatory description of the fans.
I love your videos for real. They are perfect
Thank you so much for saying that :) I appreciate it!
@@StainedGlassStories Keep it up! For us info geeks who like to know the various intricacies of all of our favorite things, your kind of videos are perfect. Much love
We need more stuff like this. Incredible video
I'm 47 & I liked bands like Champagne Illinois's Hum that was a blend of both sounds, someone already mentioned pumpkins which also would draw heavily from Shoegaze. However in modern times I would listen to bands like Pity Sex that to my ears also are a hybrid of both styles.
I'm aged 60 and although I enjoyed shoe gaze bands and went to see Ride live, it was grunge which made a massive impression on me. Still does.
Gah I fucking love this channel, huge fan!!!
I found this video to be quite educational. Definitely going to make me go down a rabbit hole now. I probably have 20+ years of albums to catch up on.
For me, Shoegaze is somewhat of a recent discovery. I've been slowly getting into the heavier, underground rock subgenres that i didn't really have a name for since around 2019, and only this year did I realize that shoegaze fits into that nicely- if not what i was listening to already. I dig it a lot for how heavy and loud it can be, while also having that meditative droning quality or melancholy tone.
As a side note, for anyone interested, there's an EP by Andrew Auscherman called Playland on his CZcams channel. I don't know if it fits the shoegaze bill, but it's up there with the songs and albums that got me into shoegaze.
I think grunge had a handful of bands that were amazing and countless imitators that were borderline awful. US radio seemed to favor those imitators though over the many excellent shoegaze bands because of the popularity of "grunge" in the US. Swervedriver's Mezcal Head and Catherine Wheel's Chrome should've been huge in the US and were as strong as any of the the best known grunge albums, and should've been as popular as Smashing Pumpkins in the US.
Can't wrap my head around why Chrome wasn't massive
Interesting and informative video, thank you 😊
this is awesome thank you so much
Some of my favorites at the time.
Nirvana - Beach - 1989
Unsane - ST - 1991
Hole - Pretty On the Inside - 1991
Also
Butthole Surfers - Locust Abortion Technician - 1987
Big Black - Songs About Fucking - 1987
Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation - 1988
Plus seXhc, fastcore/pv, post-punk, Crust and other odd music
I was never into Shoegaze but will check out those bands.
I clicked on this video, thinking I’d be the oddball who preferred grunge growing up and now prefer shoegaze! It’s so interesting to see how many people feel the same way!
i was more into grunge most of the time, but i wanted to get more into shoegaze for a long time, so maybe i will check out your channel some more
Very informative video! thank you very much!
You're very welcome Cyan_! Glad it was informative 😊
Nevermind wasn’t just a cornerstone of Grunge, it became a cornerstone of pop music and music in general. Specifically Smells Like Teen Spirit of course
i love slowdive
Me too!
@@StainedGlassStories I love Slowdive too and it still sounds funny to me that Richey James Edwards from Manic Street Preachers stated: "we will always hate Slowdive more than we hate Hitler".
@@danilosaraujo79 I think it's because Slowdive at the time were perceived as 'middle class kids from the country', and MSP were working class heroes. The punk class war element is the only reason I can think of for such over the top hatred
Props to you for mentioning Swervedriver! They're amazing
Great video, I'm surprised Mr. Beat hasn't commented on this!
Very well done comparison. I definitely think you are spot on accurate with history, influences, and composition of their respective sounds. I always leaned more into the Grunge genre. But I still dig Shoegazer too. Probably enjoy it more the older I get too. The only reason I wasn't fully in on shoegazer is the intensional de-emphasis on the vocals. Which is a personal contradiction since it's typically the last thing I pay attention to. As with pretty much any genre, it depends on my mood what I will listen to. But I always loved playing alt-rock and grunge when I was still gigging in a band.
I like them both but actually lean more towards Dream Pop.
lean
I enjoy Dream Pop as well, especially Julee Cruise
Dream pop to me is just as good as shoegaze.
Dream Pop is amazing!
@@StainedGlassStories Just checked them out and wow, what a great voice! A slightly similar vibe Still Corners :) Love it so much, thanks for the recommendation
Nice video! Really cool to understand both genres during their history. Also, there was a huge Hard Core to Shoegaze during mid 2010's, where bands like Title Fight and hundredth went full gaze. And for the grunge, some pretty amazing new band is emerging, Fleshwater, you def should check them out.
Great vid, and both awesome genres. Im surprised though there wasn’t a bit more emphasis on Sonic Youth’s influence to both. Billy Shields apparently loved Bad Moon Rising and found it a huge influence for MBV, and on the other side of the coin Nirvana as well as other grunge bands cited them as one of their indie influences. Def a band that was doing their own version of both dating way back into the early-mid 80s.
I've enjoyed your channel and was inspired to give a history from my " I was there" point of view. This seems like a good spot to comment and you'd be surprised by how closely related Grunge is to Shoegaze in the sense of influences and that many of us were fans of the shoegazers. Nils Bernstein who had a big part in creating our scene and owned Rebellious Jukebox turned me on to MBV
I happened to be in a band that was there for the early formation of what some call "Grunge" and moved on when it became world renowned. Mainly because all the bands that followed were boring as fuck and not very innovative. The last Grunge concert I would attend was Nirvana at the Paramount in Seattle after Nevermind was released.
My Band Feast who split up around the same time as Malfunktion, Green River and The Melvins sacking Lukin, played often with Soundgarden. Feast was mainly influenced by Post Punk namely 4AD, Factory, etc. In our formative years I could say the same about Soundgarden. I've often mentioned Feast was the Cure meets Black Sabbath and Soundgarden as Bauhaus meets Led Zeppelin. We were also all into post punk noise rock as in Sonic Youth and Swans. For me the heaviness all came about because of Swans and The Melvins who seemed to come out of nowhere to stun us all. They were clearly from the American Punk scene that slowed it down to the ultimate in heavy. Live shows were jaw dropping. Soundgarden and the Melvins had an underbelly of weirdness made beautiful akin to the Birthday Party and Butthole Surfers. Mark Arm was part of the Great Mr. Epp and the Calculations. Anti punk weirdos. I once sat in with them to perform The Gift by The Velvet Underground
After Feast split I formed Hippie Big Buckle which was a Heavy Sexy Acid Fueled Freakshow and around this time was also listening to a lot MBV and electronic such as Aphex Twin and the Orb. One could say HBB were kind of like Smashing Pumpkins without the precious and whiny Billy C who is far from sexy Hahahaha!
Now Bilinda Butcher IS sexy!
I missed MBV's Seattle debut because we had a show that night.
When post millennium MBV returned to Seattle there were plenty of Seattle Rockers. I hung out with Kim Thayil and Henry Shepherd, Ben's older brother. Seattle also had a scene aside from grunge. See Common Language, My Diva, Maxine, Jessamine. I eventually started producing electronic music and am now performing in Luna Moss with Rolf Bertieg, drummer from Feast and Char Easter, bass and Vocals from Common Language.
Husker Du are also a huge influence on early emo. Some of the other shoegaze bands mentioned show up on lists of influences 90s era emo bands would cite.
It might be really interesting to compare these genres with emo as it existed in the 90s.
Bands like Mohinder, Indian Summer, Evergreen, Antioch Arrow, Jawbreaker, Mineral, etc. Also noisy and with a tendency to veer between intense chaos and softer parts, but different from how grunge or shoegaze do loud/soft.
Yes, I agree. Shoegaze = emo - I see the connection too.
Kinda fell out of love for shoegaze, but my love for swirlies has sustained; I’d love to see you do a do a documentary on them!
This kind of content is fucking awesome. Subscribed! Can we learn about new wave vs no wave?