Allis Chalmers Show: What Could Have Been, The Allis Chalmers 8095 Tractor
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- čas přidán 29. 07. 2024
- On this episode, we head to Missouri to check out Ethan Daehler's 8095 Allis Chalmers prototype tractor which was supposed to be released in 1986 until Deutz took over and canceled the project. Would have been the start of the 9000 series of tractors all to be over 200 hp. We also look at an experimental Deutz Allis R50 rotary combine.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Being an employee at Allis Chalmers between 1973 to 1985. I was so busy during that time to see the full picture. During my time at Allis Chalmers, the 7000 series tractors was a good seller . We couldn't get them out the door fast enough. After the 80's, the 8000 , 6000 and 5000 series tractors were the future of the company. Engineering and production made them better and more powerful over the years.The company is gone but the orange tractor's story continues with J-L videos.
We're employees there union ?
You would not believe how many A/C are still in use today in upstate NY. From 8030’s to D12’s. Ironically The prices are still incredibly high considering how old and used they are but people still love their reliability and easy to fix. The plastic junk they sell today won’t be running in 7 years once the computers junk out.
@@cousineddie3714 local 248 UAW, with a very "colorful" history...
@@cousineddie3714 We were members of UAW Local 248.
As someone who's grown up with allis in my family. One of the flaws allis did along with others that I never understood other than saving money in the short term was pushing the 426 for so long. They should have capped it at 140hp upped the cubic inches.
I grew up on allis charmers tractors. My heart still bleeds orange!
Man I wish my dad and grandpa were here to this video.
Thank you for some good memories.
With the cost of equipment today, I don't know how any farmer survives.
Thank you Ethan for pursuing this purchase. It’s neat that you are restoring them so they can continue to work on the farm. Thank you J and L for taking the time to interview Ethan
Great piece of history. I wish AC would have made it through the 80’s without merging with other brands. It’s a shame, because the 8095 would have been competitive with everything that was around during that period of time. Thanks again for the videos. Also wish they continued the conventional gleaner combines, always liked the M3, L3.
I've heard nothing but good said about Gleaner Combines. In fact I knew a guy who did custom combing with a Gleaner.
It’s a shame that Allis Chalmers went under. It’s interesting to think about what they could be doing today. It’s wonderful to see so many nice old orange machines still out either working or in collections.
If i ever get near you.. i would love to see them. We farmed with AC untill the 80s farm crisis, nice to see you made it😁we did not but im still at it👍
Just sad part of history, what could have been, should have been. Thanks for sharing👍I think anyone of us would love have 8095 or 9000 with Cummins or Komatsu engine with 18 speed IVT, having CaseIH Magnum 215 you get feeling that AC was on the right track, 20 years ahead of time. Interesting features of special production of R50, nice piece of history of the Silver Fleet.
what a tragedy that happened in the 80's. all the buyouts ruined everything. Corp America took over, and has never looked back. Men in Jeans built this country, and the Suits destroyed it!!!
thanks for sharing this so cool
Pardner, my grandfather was a Chalmers dealer in Lennon, Michigan. He sold more Chalmers combines than anyone.. After WW II the employees went on strike. Couldn't get tractors 1946-1947. Chalmers was a poorly run company at the management level. The engineers were great.
That whole cutthroat stock market system in the U.S .seems to kill off a lot of good companies whereas Germany and other parts of Europe seem keep all their iconic brands going then end up buying the U.S companies! !!!!
@@fastsetinthewest Allis never really recovered from that strike. The UAW destroyed IH in the 80s as well.
@@interman7715 Look at the agricultural chemical companies. Bought out by foreign Bayer and Marubeni.
It's really sad to know what could have been and see what was coming. Like the Allis 18 speed transmission or the IVT transmission in the Oliver's before the buy outs .
The Oliver ivt would have been a game changer. Such a shame
Keeping that history alive. Love it.
I love videos like this but they're bitter sweet at the same time.
It was a different time. The 8000 series tractors were best in class at that time.
Sad to see what happened to allis chalmers same with ih and Oliver and Moline would of been nice to see what they would have looked like today
Work for a guy that had 7000 and 7010 and 175. They we’re very tough tractors. When I started farming I bought a 6080 fwa . I put 10000 hr on and never had issue. To answer your ? Wt they would look like today , well I bought a kubota M7 and that wt I think they would look like today, the proud orange color lives on!👌
Fascinating topic! What a company works on even as it nears its own destruction...still striving hopefully onward.
👏😎 Bravo. Great Work.
Thanks for Sharing. 😎👍
Wow so awesome that someone wanted a younger person who loves Allis Chalmers to get them.
Everette and Brian Hunley and family also did conversions for AC, might be a good interview if they're willing. Tim Brannon, B&G equipment in Paris, TN also a plethora of AC knowledge
There was a green painted R50 at the AGCO dealership in New Hampton Iowa just a few years ago..... 2017 or so. Painted Deutz green. I'm glad they didn't carry on that color into production but it was fun to see it anyhow.
Great Video. I knew the tractors were around but Never seen them in person. Hope you can Get them Restored as i Love Allis Chalmers. I love Prototype tractors. Glad to see you have them.
Really cool thanks for sharing!
Very cool stuff. Hope those tractors get restored some day.
I spent a lot of time on 180's and 185's years ago and the occasional D series. I owned a 190XT myself but let it go a few years ago. If I were going to buy one to keep and go through it to fix it up, I'd look for a 185, then a 180. Love the old Allis iron.
Good looking machines! If they're built anything like the rest of the AC line they'll be around for a long time to come!
How very cool. I like stuff like that :) and for those who might be interested, , I saw a rotobailer at a used equipment dealer for sale, just North of Sebeka, Minnesota along US highway 71. It was still there as of August 22nd
Thank You Thank You. So Sa😢but is still is around for all to enjoy. 😢
Awesome job. You took my girlfriends and I’s picture at the GOTO in MN, during our brief chat you had mentioned about this project.
Very well done, you are covering things that many never have. Keep them coming!!
Yep, by the old A-C sign and mini 220, It was nice to meet you!
@@JandLVideos likewise, hope to see y’all again someday
I learned something new today. Thanks for sharing!
I have a 62(I believe) Allis Chalmers D15. She's been well used and could use a paint job but I love her.
Thank you for showing us the 8095 !!!!
So sad that a company as great as Allis-Chalmers did not survive beyond the 80s. No doubt they were a leader in many areas of innovation, what would have been a 300hp fwa in the mid 80s, 90s would have been keeping up with demand then and now.
8000 series cabs were copied , Allis did need to keep up tho with offering ground speed , acres per hour etc.
It makes me sad to hear of
A 18 speed transmission lost . Sure hope you will show us the 8095 with the Kamatsu!
I want to hear what that sounds like!
Actually Allis Chalmers had all the electronics first, but the sensors proved unreliable so the few that were made were brought in and switched back to analog style, I own the only known full ag-data dash and electronic touch pad switches
@@RJ1999x
I wish you could take a picture or video of that !!!!!
Wow 😲 that is absolutely amazing that they had that technology, I have respect for them not installing it due to the unreliable sensors.
Case and John Deere also had issues with their dashes in that era. Would love to see what u have!!! Thanks for telling me!!!!
@@joesanchez4895 my pleasure
@@RJ1999x I will assume you know of the 4W305 and low hour 7020 selling on Auction Time. I find the story of the 8095 tractors interesting. For development, I get using what is readily available. I wonder what Allis engine would have been used. The 736 from the 4W305 with a single turbo dialed back some, or a 4 valve 426?
@@thegreenerthemeaner The 731 in my opinion was a brain fart. It was the "Big Al" engine with a destroked crank, different manifolds and pistons, so very expensive when the 844/21000 series could have been choked back to 300 HP and no money spent.
There is another engine between the 426 and 731, 516 cu in. Was a big stout engine that could have been used on the 8095 and should have been in the 7580/4W-220
That rare Gleaner is so cool.
This is why I have such a love/hate relationship with John Deer.
Allis started to slide when they contracted out components. And being a mainly tractor only line didn't help them, but they led the way with NoTil planters. They would plant into pavement when others were trying to figure it out.
Grew up with a 190 and 7020. Wish I still.had them.........
To me at least, I don’t think there is a coincidence when you look at the 8095 prototypes and a 9170 Duetz-Allis. I think maybe Duetz put their own spin on the prototype. But that’s just my opinion! I wish Allis-Chalmers never went under.
The One Allis Chalmers that always stood out to me is our Allis Chalmers G.
Dad worked at Allis Chalmers then Semens Allis for 38 years and retired in early March of 1979 age 62 . He designed motors designed the very first motor he told me ! HIs name was Gaylord R. Brooks .
Reminds me of an MX magnum 20 years ahead of the game. If Deutz could have gotten over themselves and just put Deutz engines in Allis tractors and kept going where allis left off they would have done well. Just plain dropping Allis Chalmers was a mistake.
Does anyone actually know what happened. That time was very odd deutz built better tractors than 9190 deutz allis before the merger called a dx 8.3. I have a ad in an old farm magazine that they were going to give us an upgraded version called an 8.5 and with what I saw in this video how we ended up with white built tractors instead is beyond me. Hell if White was able to use 4-270 parts in a cheaper standard frame tractor we would of had better White tractors. Apparently at that time everybody took their turn getting crapped on.
@@rustyshank912 What happened was Deutz bought the Allis farm machinery line and immediately scrapped everything but the Gleaner combine line. Then they attempted to sell a re-badged White tractor with a Deutz air cooled engine in it painted snot green green to farmers who did not buy green tractors.
@@trevorn9381 that is the question. Was it part of the merger deal they stopped the tractor production in West Allis? They did keep producing some tillage and corn planters.
I built one of the 8095 I was a prototype build and test technician at Frankville WI. Proving ground. And was at the 2019 Allis show at Frankville and Racine County Fair. Go Orange.
Did you know Larry Gruenberger? I got to meet him in 2019 in Hutchinson when he was demonstrating the D-19 tow tractor. Any other neat prototypes or products you remember? What about the infamous 18 speed powershift transmission?
Did u have the Komatsu engine in it? How did it start??
Did you ever see it on a dyno?
@@JandLVideos I worked for WFE Libertyville, Il as prototype build and test technician when White went back to Charles City I was hired at the Allis proving ground by Larry he was the manager and BOSS at Franksville I have a photo of Larry and me there in 2019 will post in a later date. I was there just over one year 1984 to the end. It been 37 years and something I just don't remember, but thinking the 18 speed power shift is misconception what I think it was was 6 speed power shift with a 3 speed range. If someone can prove me wrong I would like here about that.
@@davidstanonik3389 ever make it to the Orange Spectacular? We'd love to talk to you!
@@JandLVideos Yes they were komatsu and of course they started good like any new engine. Not sure about PTO H.P. that was run by another guy, I do remember making longer frame rails for a 8070 to lengthen it wheel base to fit on the wheel drum dyno to test front axle planetary gear set, It may of been 8095 can't remember
Very cool
Awesome
Would love to see that 8095 restored.
No. Its a one of a kind prototype and its original. Why ruin it
komatsu probably was a designated , 6-125 series . great great engines .
just a sad day for AC and what Deutz did to the Allis name!!!! but l will run AC to the end!!!! l will be watchin!!!
Nice story, nice to see a tractor like that is going to get used and not just sit somewhere never to be used again. Did he say anything about maybe giving it a paint job? I never knew Allis was going to be putting out an 18 speed transmission, they were a very innovative company for sure.
He's on CZcams so hopefully he'll comment but he did mention to us about giving it a new paint job.
Did AC ever develop a large round baler? They produced the Rotobaler that made small diameter round bales. I just wonder if AC ever used their round bale experience to scale up the Rotobaler to make large diameter round bales. It seems as if they could have and should have seen that market segment possibly; they were so innovative with the other ag equipment they produced.
No.
Its sad what happened to all the brands that didn't make it they made some awesome equipment
The name Allis-Chamers may now be a part of tractor history. But the tractor morphed in name to Duetz-Allis, then became Agco tractor and implement. Some of that heritage has carried on.
Is this correct? Deutz has nothing to do with agco.
Allis Chalmers is in agco group now?
@tobiasburen8340 There was a progression in the brand name. Just like at one time. One could purchase a McCormick -Deereing tractor.
Is that the only 8070 in existence? If so it should be restored and put in a collection!
Who owns that thing I gotta big bank account , a dumb mind, and a check book 🤣🤣
The 8095 is a awesome prototype AC developed I believe if it went into production it would be the best tractor on the planet just like the other AC tractors were
Being as rare as they are. You would have thought the people that owned them over the years would have taken better care of them. Obviously that tractor has spent most of its life sitting outside.
Shame everyone couldn't have gotten along and made a clean sheet diesel, right between 685 and 6120.
Was a 685 ever put in a tractor?
Worked as test driver for jd left in 2012 for tractor that were prototypes used to kill me after so many hrs engineers would strip them run their tests on all components then scrap them hated to see them scraped
Is he in Lexington MO? That’s 10 minutes from me! I HAVE to go see those beauties!
Try getting ahold of them first, or someone that knows them. Just stopping by a farm to have a look around sometimes doesn't go over well.
@@farmcentralohio - it’s good way to find yourself touring the bottom of the manure pit in my area.
Dads normally always around. He will talk a person's leg off.
@@daehlerfarms I'd love my leg to get talked off about Allis equipment!
It seems like the 80's had extreme potential for Allis as well as IHC, unfortunately only Deere financially weathered the storm, apparently they weren't investing money in the innovations the others were, Deere didn't advance much from the 100 series combines and the 30 series tractors of the early 70's
Deere has never been one to innovate. I’ll catch hell for saying this but they are good at watching others efforts and building on them.
Deere was days from going under as well! If A-C and IH could have held on a short time deere wouldn't be a thing.
@@RedIron1066 Since IHC folded Deere has had no one to copy .
@@RedIron1066 Look at the 100s of millions IHC invested in advanced designs such as the axial combine ,50 series tractors ,2+2 etc all the while Deere sits back and waits .
@@interman7715 very true. Look at the resources IH applied to FEREC & product development, right to the end.
I can mention 4 brands of tractors/equipment I would rather see then what we have with JD copytec. Allis Chalmers, International Harvesters, Minneapolis Moline and Oliver. In any one of those brands there where more innovation then there ever have been and even will be in many other companies.
Best idea jd engineers had was keeping track of when patents expire.
The Synchro Tri Six IHC transmission shares most of it's hard parts with the 71 series magnums. The 7688 prototype may have even had the magnum cab.
wait... there was plans of a series of +200hp tractors? That would've been almost 20 years ahead of the rest of the industry. I thought it was just gonna be one high horsepower model on top of the 8000 series
That's allis chalmers for you ahead of everyone else in tractor design
Would’ve been like the case ih magnum.
mebbe a few ponies more than the Magnum or JD 8000 series. Both of those series spanned 175 to 250hp. No manufacturer broke the 300hp FWA mark till the early-mid 2000s (thats not to say there weren't some hot boxcar Magnums or JD 8400s that exceeded that mark)
They were going to 300 engine horse like the 4w 305. It was going to be the 9000 series. One of the engineer's that's passed away now from the Allis forum always said it was a 9025.
That woulda been fuckin boss
What machines had that Komatsu engine in em...big excavation/mining equipment?
Better start restoring them. Dont run them into the ground
Did they go under due to the 80s farming crisis? Not sure on the full cause, but after seeing multiple farming videos, it seemed like the 80s were a very tough time for farmers
Do you know what Deutz engine was in that tractor before the 8.3 Cummins.
I’m going to venture to say it was a BF6L513R.
@@lolandhaulk851 to bad it wasn't the aftercooled version could have made 270hp.
Some company ought to reintroduce Allis Chalmers
Of all the power plants available at the time including their own. Why on gods green earth would they go overseas for a dang Komatsu?
The Japanese yen was worth less than the dollar at the time and they could be bought for the best value.
A friend of mine runs Komatsu dozers and they are great engines
Sorry. I believe in an American first policy above all else. You wanna move dirt. You buy a Cat.
@@Oliver66FarmBoy made in Great Britain.
Steiger used em in the panther as one of 3 engine options available series 3 and 4 I believe and they had good luck with em. My neighbor has a series 4 with a komatsu that's equivalent to a cummins 855.
👍
Were there any similarities between the 8095 and the deutz allis 9100 series?
No.
Say I got one question do you know of any others available I'm a lifetime Allis Chalmers person
If these tractors were so great, why did they go under?? The strongest and best always survive it seems to me. Not being argumentative, just genuinely curious.
Bad management is why AC went under. Tractors were as good as any but management, labor relations and a recession that killed IH as well.
The 80s were tough ,darn shame excellent companies like White, Allis and IHC folded , I have absolutely no interest in these new plastic computer filled tractors.
I like Cummins engines.
Deutz should've just stuck there engine in these and the 4wd and painted them green and stuck there name on it
So Cool. Too bad AC didn't make.
Too many engine and transmission issues with 7/8000 series.
that 8095 looked somewhat normal and not a stubby bob with a short ruff riding wheelbase. Big cabs but lacked technology like what Case had in their 94 series for being able to get true ground speed, acres per hour, etc
Absolutely false, Allis Chalmers had the electronics long before Case did, but the sensors proved unreliable, so they were brought back and switched to analog.
I own the only known complete electronic ag-data dash and the touch pad switches for lights
@@RJ1999x well they had it but didn't continue it so yah. Case had the reliable intelligence center that was the precursor to the magnum.
@@kolewiebensohn reliable would be stretching the truth,
@@RJ1999x well Case 94 series out number all other brands off same era tractors in our county area by a lot. the ihs went to magnums, SGB Deere's for 8000 series and the Allis's just plain disappeared all together
@@kolewiebensohn Find that rather hard to believe when the big 3 in tractor production in the 80's were John Deere International Harvester, and Allis Chalmers.
Case was a bit player along with white and Massey's and Ford's.
Allis Chalmers disappeared because they went out of business in 1985 and nothing replaced the 8000 series, dealer quit the Deutz -Allis franchise and switched to a more saleable brand,
Too bad Deere survived and AC died. Now all Deere does is screw it’s customers!
what a shame they were good tractors advanced in notill what a shame
It made me sad
Tractors need repainting
AC and IH shouldn't of gone under
greatest tractor ever made only a slogan, a hay tractor. can't pull for long. poor factory line.
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, I own this same tractor and I want to sell it
There's a rumor that the last 8000 series Allis Chalmers tractor made was sent to Saudi Arabia if you have 8070 serial number 3354 that would be the one.
Interesting video! Good solid machines.
The only thing I disagree with you is on who made the best tractors ever.
That honor goes to Massey ferguson of course!!!!
Being a Massey ferguson nut I could not accept anything else.
I think they make medication for that! Lol
@@RJ1999x
The medication is like the Multi-Power
Ok til things start to go down hill. 😎
That R 50 is a roach scrap that pos!
Someone should buy the rights to these from AGCO since they have become a long lost cause and would rather own European companies and make these babies a reality they'd sell like crazy you could really stick it to AGCO By making the new company name A merican C ompany
I cringe every time he says, 'They was'.
🤨 I think its terrible that a billionaire didnt stop this.!!! If it was me and i had the Money i would have took it over.!!! 🤔
Allis Chalmers was ahead of the times, some big wig screwed up and let it die! makes me so sick!
These tractors desperately need a paint job.
Allis Chalmers employees deserved their fate. My grandfather was an Allis Chalmers dealer in Lennon Michigan. He started about 1935. He sold more combines than any dealer anywhere! My grandfather couldn't get tractors during the 1946-1947 Chalmers strike. He had to close the doors. He was fed up with Chalmers. Just keep adding up all the stupid stuff and no more company. Eaglegards...