There is a market for mobile standalone. I bought the MPC Live 2 because there wasn't a Push 3 yet. Making music from a single device everywhere around your house (and outside of it) and not being stuck to a computer or studio setup really is inspiring and liberating.
I hear you. But as an owner of a push 3 it's extremely overhyped. The push's interface is way too limited utilized 40% of the features of live. Complex maxforlive devices such as Opal and others will never ever work properly on push. Complex sequencer patches will ha e issues due to the small screen and limited physical ui. There's no support for external drives. Most stand alone devices have this or a really streamlined way of transferring files. MPE is extremely sensitive I've actually turned it off. Because after a while it starts to sound corny. It's also very very big. There are too many critical features from live that are missing at launch. Also as mentioned in this video. The battery sucks. If you have larger sets of 10 or more tracks mixed midi and audio battery slips down to 85 minutes to 1.5 hours. It' crashes and hangs ALL THE TIME. I've never used an elektron device.or any standalone device this unstable. It's comical how unstable it is. My 14 inch MacBook pro m1pl max.with live can run Pigments and other 3rd party plugins the push can't and never will. It's a let down. I'm kinda bummed with my push 3. Because to make the songs I really want to make I have to go back to my laptop. The audio interface also sucks. But that's another story.
@@City2x I only have a Push 2 so I can't judge the Push 3. But when talking about making music on a mobile standalone device it is mostly about sketching out ideas, not about finishing a track. Fully arranging, mixing and mastering a track is what you typically do in your studio on a DAW. Push was never designed for arrangement view and that's perfectly fine when sketching out the elements of a track (clips) and the basic building blocks of a song structure (scenes). Incoming fixes and upgrades aside, it seems to me the Push 3 is doing what it is supposed to be doing, which is sketching out ideas in Session view in standalone. Although I do agree they need to fix the short battery life.
@@Drrolfski 2k is a lot of money to just sketch out track out. Ableton was a little disingenuous with their marketing of the device. It shouldnt have been released with all the bugs and half ass features or lack of features it has. I believe they'll fix some of these bugs later this fall. But I fear some of them may be related to the chioset they're using and may be difficult to squash. I suspect the chips the dev'd with may be slightly different that what shipped because a lot of these bugs elsewhere are Pri 1 showstoppers
@@City2x Someone made a video the other day where he would buy all the parts that makes up for a Push 3 (audio interface, laptop, 4 times 4x4 MPE controller, midi controller that can do all the stuff a Push 3 can do) and he came to the conclusion that the Push 3 is not bad value. It also functions as an Ableton DAW controller so you can do more on it than just sketching in standalone. Does it need fixing? Undoubtedly. But that could be expected of what is basically a generation 1 product. Making dedicated midi controllers is one thing, going into the business of standalone mobile computing is another thing altogether.
I think it will be a matter of time for a device like the Push 3 standalone to become really popular. The technology needs to become more efficient and affordable. Maybe Ableton is smart to get in early
MPE was the main selling point for me. I got a Push 3, and the fun you can have with every individual pad is insane. Furthermore, the lay-out of the push 3 is more intuitive, buttons have symbols instead of words, and the jogwheel is an amazing addition as well. While you really make good points, I think the whole is more than the sum of its parts, at least for the controller-version.
@@MrFrussel Nice. I don't deny that MPE can be worth it, it looks very cool. I hope some of the improvements make it to the Push 2 though. Why not let us move through midi notes with the directional pads? Seems plausible.
For me Push 3 is actually the first Push I have been really interested in getting because of the way MPE works and integrates seems great. I have had an linnstrument which on the surface has a lot of similarities but it never really clicked with me fully so I sold it.
@@pleggli Never heard of Linnstrument. Those are reasonably priced, but the layout and small pads kind of put me of. A thing I really wish Push 3 had, is the ability to turn 4 pads into a bigger square, so you have more room to ' express' .
Hardware is easier to learn than software; muscle memory, etc. That said - I totally agree with you dude. I still have my Push 1, and have the dough, but won't upgrade.
I totally get you. I’ve also kinda hit that gear wall too. I have so much stuff that adding to that pile is pointless. I’m exhausted and more interested in writing music and sample hunting than anything
If you already own Live Suite, then it's an absolute no-brainer. IMO, the improved pads with awesome MPE tech, the dedicated MIDI capture button, audio interface, and the jogwheel alone are reason enough to upgrade from a P2. Nothing else can compare. For $1K, you're basically getting a Linnstrument (cost more than a P3), a modern MPC (also costs more), and Ableton in one package. That's insane value. That's not even taking into account how much better it'll get with updates down the line.
Have you even tried it? It may be a no-brainer because you can return it. If you buy one - seriously write a review somewhere. Yes, I own a Push and Suite 11.
THANK YOU for mentioning the feasibility of realistically busting out the $2000 laptop or instrument on the bus. Where I live, public transit has become one of the least practical places to work on music(like it ever was practical at all). People literally get away with much worse than stealing a laptop all the time, so the less attention you draw to yourself the better. I guess in the context of “why the battery in push 3”, I could see it still being beneficial as a failsafe if the unit gets unplugged during a show, for instance. But yeah, part of me wonders they’re banking on a bunch of “Content Creator/Influencers”™️ wanting to go make videos like “EPIC WATERFALL PUSH SESSION- PRODUCER GOES OFF GRID TO MAKE THIS FIRE BEAT (INSANE FINGER DRUMMING MUST WATCH) 🤯🔥🤩”
LOL. You remark was insanely funny! Good job. Yeah, people 'literally' get away with killing others on buses - which is dunno - worse than having your Push 3 stolen.
Thank you for your review. Definitely saved me from getting stand alone push 3. Saying that , I literally have to wheel around a suitcase with my push2, laptop, novation launch control, soundcard, headphones and all the wires. Had hope it would ve lessened the load
I kind of like the idea of limiting myself to 8 inputs and stock plugins.I have a hardware-heavy setup, but keep getting lost in trillions of options whenever I sit at my computer and use Live.
You’ve convinced me not to get the standalone one. I’m probably still going to get the non-standalone one and upgrade from my push 1, because the note editing and MPE functionalities look really enticing to me. Hopefully with the upgrade kit in the future they’ll have a battery with better capacity. Nice vid!
Wow, really glad I was helpful! Going from the Push 1 to the 3, there is probably enough to make it worth it. Even the Push 2 really improved the experience from the 1, so it's probably a good time for you to upgrade. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks, this really put some things into perspective for me. I'm in the unfortunate position of having just bought a Push 2 Bundle just before they announced the Push 3, and just wanted an honest opinion of what I'm missing out on. It really doesn't seem like I'm missing out on all that much with the non-standalone version. However even the small details you mention have me wishing I'd waited! 🙈 My bundle is still boxed tho, so I'm hoping i can trade it in somewhere for the 3, as i doubt Ableton will allow me, now they have it discontinued... 🙄 Thanks again! 👍
Thank you for your honesty!!! I was waiting for the next Push to be released but now that I’m seeing it I’m having second thoughts about it as a keyboard player I’m just thinking about about getting a MPC style pad and call it a day!!!
Thank you for watching the video, glad it was helpful. I suspect we will see more keyboards with various kinds of support for MPE in the next year, so it might be worth it to wait and see what comes out.
I sold Push 2 first day Push 3 announced. I will prolly sell Maschine+, and will get Push 3 Controller only. Next, I'll only spend precious music money on analog synths and keep playing iPhone/iPad as a mobile groovebox.
I was hunting for an MPC2000 a while back and I realized something dumb - if I just wait long enough, the gear I have today will be retro soon too. I like the older stuff anyway, so stepping out of the way of the hype train only makes sense. I’m still rocking my Octatrack, a box that’s now 11 years old.
Too many overrated new generation hipster controller trash EVERYWHERE….These kids with their GAS for the next cool hipster toy… these companies got people hooked. Rushing out the next new unfinished controller to rake in sales; only to go by the waste side in 2 years….MPC 2000, and Octatracks are built like tanks, and made to stand the test of time. Good for you bro seeing through the hype train. Sick of these new generation kids wasting all their hard earn money for the next toy they don’t need. These companies don’t give a shit about innovation anymore. Only to target a new generation of consumers getting them hooked on the GAS train.
Excellent video! Thanks for the honesty and well balanced review! It’s refreshing in a landscape where every CZcams video feels like a marketing video rather than a true review video.
@@bresk13 Don't confuse negativity and honesty, just because this video does not support ableton interests doesn't mean it's "honest". And you can't test something without truly testing it, I'm surprised there is a crowd for this kind of nonsense.
agreed here actually, MPE is the only thing I wanna upgrade from push 2 for. I just didn't get that same excitement like when I watched the push 2 launch video. No one is talking about how underwhelming the interface specs are either.
true, the preamps need some more headroom, 96k sample rate is wishful thinking, maybe with future hardware. Not passing phantom power is also big oopsie. In line phantom power adapters aren't too pricey, but i think they dropped the ball on that one.
While I am not at all interested in Push, as I use Cubase for 30 yrs and will never change DAW (not saying Live is bad, I can use it, and it is great for some things, but lacks other that I need), I tend to agree with your analysis with one remark about MIDI controller evolution. You are absolutely right, controllers have been evolving to substitute for instruments and bring that tactile feeling to music making process - however, initial controllers were made for something different entirely. Rewind to late eighties, most of the synths were either physical modelling, FM/PD or romplers. The overall design was to cram as many features as possible into keyboards with a few buttons. Most of the controls were buried deep in the menu and the only thing players could perform with would be a pitch bend and a mod wheel, quite often assigned to one, hard- to -change -without -digging parameter. Another example would be racks, all JVs, TX's etc. So, developers started producing relatively cheap MIDI controllers with faders to allow for flexible performance. This was the first time controllers were adapted to suit digital instruments (well, analogue too, but mostly digital). Legendary controllers like Fat Boy and Knobby (funny for nowday's standards) were boxes that really helped unlock potential of the rack synths. Roland's PC series combined with Fat Boy would be something any decent controller looks nowdays, keys, faders etc. Just wanted to add this for the younger crowd, as it is a part of music tool's history. Funny enough, those controllers were not designed for use with the first computer software (PC300 was great with Cubase on Atari ST tho) and there was no deep integration in early DAWs. BTW while I am mostly using hardware instruments and computer for tracking and mixing only, I am an absolute fan of NI from early years and Generator, I had all incarnations of Maschine, except for this plus calamity. I get the race, but these products by NI, Akai and Live really dont cut it - built with mediocre specs and running OS that doesn't support bunch of stuff will forever mark these boxes as just a downgraded version of the computer.
Absolutely. I meant to add a note that I was mainly talking about the early computer-compatible controllers (and also a note that Acid is far from an "early DAW" but it was one of the first that I used). Great comment. Thank you for sharing and for checking out the video.
At the end of 2014, I paid 799 Euros for a Push 1 with Ableton Live 9 Suite included. Still have and use that push1, but not enough to warrant an upgrade for that much money. MPE is awesome, but more controllers will have it for less money in the future. If I were a live performer, I would still use a laptop as a backup, so I agree on the limited value of the standalone version.
You are so right, my friend! And those sponsored reviews are annoying, tbh. Who will tell you that there're so many things that are just not there yet...
I'm a Push 2 user and although I like it, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because there are so many great controllers out there now that don't lock you into using Ableton. I guess the 3 standalone has a MIDI Out...? So theoretically you could use it with another DAW, or "DAWless"...?...but in my opinion there are other controllers out there that cost much, much less that do more (and some have CV out), and you're not going to do finished tracks on the standalone Push 3 so it does become a direct comparison with those other controllers.
The sad fact is most the launch "Reviews" by CZcamsrs are thinly veiled sponsorships. They get the device for free, often get paid, and if they say anything critical whatsoever, they won't get free products from other manufacturers in the future, so their reviews are always positive in service of keeping the gravy train rolling.
I'm definitely going to go for a used Push 2. Push 2 already was a major price hike from Push 1 (which I own) and now Push 3 "pushes" the limit even further. I'm sorry Ableton, but a thousand bucks for a controller or two thousand bucks for a standalone instrument is just insane. I think the comparison with Maschine still holds true today, and that is 599 for the controller and 1199 for the standalone version. Heck, even the Deluge (which is an extremely versatile machine) goes for 600 bucks less than the standalone Push 3. I'm curious to see if this pricing strategy works for Ableton, because I really can't see many people buying a Push 3 at this price.
they are a billion dollar company - i think them being in the games for tens of years with billions of dollars i could say that they KNOW WHAT THEY R DOING with their MARKET RESEARCH vs. some youtube BRO...
@@thebicycleman8062 They're no where NEAR a billion dollar company, 'bro.' They're nowhere near the Fortune 1000 top companies by revenue. You know the 'internet?' It exists to check yourself before throwing out statements. About one TENTH of that. I know, dudes like to exaggerate. Now I like Ableton and use it all the time but facts are facts. Ableton's estimated annual revenue is currently $112.6M per year.
Appreciate your points here! Also I had to laugh when at the end of the video I realised it was my own finger pointing at the power button 😂 I do also think it’s important to balance all the viewpoints out there, and in the heat of the moment and for a brand / concept a lot of us love it can be challenging perhaps, so it’s great to have yours too. Andri
Thank you Andri! I'm definitely not calling anyone out for their review, and if Ableton had offered to send me a review unit I'm sure I would have been as excited as everyone else. It did seem like we needed a different perspective, and to be fair I did start to see more videos like mine after the launch reviews. And thank you for your review! I enjoyed it and it was one of the few that had a close up of the power button. :)
Thanks for this, Peabody Scientific. My huge complaint is this is regardless of who made it, what DAW it is for...imho it's YEARS behind it's time. Sure it can do some slick stuff. Looks nice. No denying. The analogy I use - a great friend in California owns an IT company. He just now got fiber in his home. You know how long Google, alone, had dark fiber purchased and just sitting idle? Finally with Fiber this dude is getting the speeds of yesteryear he deserves - in 2023. Besides costly R&D, I can't think of a single thing that would have prevented Push 3 - years ago. Does Push 3 come quite close to reproducing the entire software experience, mouse and all in a standalone device (I know there's a non-standalone)? No. On the plus side, Ableton implemented a truly appreciated move - ability to upgrade hardware. Taken down a notch by providing - the hardware of yesteryear. Surely Ableton could have bought much hotter hardware and received bulk discounts for volume, in say, California. True, with the memory plant burning, Covid-19, the death of places like 'Fry's' (a place in California where anyone with a brain could get burning-edge hardware on the cheap) hardware is no longer cheap. But Ableton with it's resources (their average salary published online proves this) could without question, have procured better hardware. For me, Ableton has made some obvious genius moves with their software over the years. For example, there's not a musician since Homer that hasn't said "jeez, I wish I could remember what I just played." Capture MIDI solved that. It's not like they don't do some things exactly right. Ableton can't please everyone with Push 3, I get it. For those that love it, I wish them God speed. I'm mainly interested in the degree to which the current Push 3 unshackles them totally, from the software. I do have high praise for Suite 11 V.3.0 (now on 3.3). The long autowarp feature works incredibly well, and I use it and I'll take it. But as an Ableton insider proves in his videos, this too could have been implemented as he says, "YEARS ago." One last thing. There's not a single person I know - and I obviously know very few people out of 7 billion, that doesn't feel that music created with the aid of a controller sounds better. I'm not really sure why - theories exist. With my own music NOT using a controller and the sets without - just not nearly as good. So, I feel everyone should get SOME sort of controller, even a cheap one and see how they like it/improves their music. Before they even dream of dropping two grand.... P.S. Yes, I own a Push and was an 'earliest' adopter, all those years ago with Push 1.
Im not going to argue your point. But put it this way, I was using elektron devices before the standalone push. The functionality of all of them together doesn’t even cover what the push 3 standalone does and costs way, way more than it. The only thing I can readily think of is the octatrack real time recording \ buffer functionality, as the exception. Maybe at a stretch, the analog synthesis and somewhat more immediate setup of synthesis (still have a moog Mavis + A4) Your point stands if you argue that anything towards dedicated hardware except for a MIDI controller is pointless.
I think you're probably right that for someone wanting to go DAWless the Push 3 is probably an excellent product. As I mentioned in another comment, I guess I'm more skeptical of premium price points for standalones having started out with standalones back in the day and remembering why DAW + midi controller was so appealing in the first place. But yeah, there is probably no standalone device with anything close to Ableton Live as it's internal sequencer. Thank you for your comment and for watching.
I'm a push 2 long time user, let's make things clear: 1) compare it push 3 controller version (~$1k) not the standalone ($2k+) is fair otherwise it's dishonest. 2) do you really need to carry around such a big device and pay extra $1k for a 1~2 hour of battery life? 3) if point 2 is not your priority, go with the controller version. 4) mpe is cool but not necessary for certain types of music. In few words: if you have the push 2 is not worth the upgrade. If you don't have push 2, the push 3 controller is as great as push 2 + you have mpe. If you want to go portable... find something that is light and relatively small. My experience: my sp404-mk2 is great to play around, koala sampler is even more cheap and portable, but in the studio, push2 all the way. If you have a bigger budget and you want to go portable, maybe MPC Live 2 could be an option.
The standalone is definitely expensive, but the controller version is a solid upgrade over Push2-which you know because you outlined some of the best features in this video. When you consider that inflation has driven up the cost of just about everything, $1000 doesn't seem that crazy when you consider the new MPE pads and the built-in interface. It's a fair point that most people already have an interface, though. I'd like to see the controller version not come with the interface or have a 3rd option without it, priced closer to the old Push2. I still think the Push 3 is an amazing piece of gear and a solid upgrade over Push2. The standalone won't be for everyone, but for the people who want that, this will be the new king of standalone devices, especially for those who want the ability to easily go back to the PC to finish a track after a jam session. That alone is worth the price of admission over something like the MPC Live or Maschine+ (both expensive devices as well).
Totally agreed. Controller for $1000 is a good deal for MPE and ADAT alone. Standalone for an extra $1000 is too much for most. What I am hoping to see soon is some discussion regarding stability and Max4Live. If the price point is intended for professionals who need flexibility or specific setups, then these advanced concerns seem more relevant in the standalone discussion.
I agree with your closing statement. The Push 3 does exactly what the Push 2 does with the exception of MPE pads, but it doesnt seem like that much of an upgrade as the Push 2 was to the Push. I can wait for MPE, especially since i just bought a Push 2 last Summer.
I agree with all your points and really do think even if I were to perform live, I'd rather stick to my powerful laptop and have the Push 3 as a controller. As to the battery, on a standalone device I see why it would be beneficial. While I definitely would plug in even for standalone sessions at home, if I wanted to move the device (from my sofa to my workstation) I'd much rather not have to save and turn it off rather than just unplug it and move it over. I think this is the actual point in the battery.
The thing that will probably hook me in is the Adat expansion on the stand alone which will allow me to record all of my hardware synths while Jaming Yes I could go straight into my Daw via My quantum but them I am working across platforms and having to deal with latency To be able to sample and build tracks playing live is something that I have wanted to be able to do for ages
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts. I agree 100%. Was starting to wonder if these reviewers were paid to say only nice things. Too expensive - it doesn't come with the full featured DAW. Also think missed opportunities by ableton with that jog wheel - where is arrangement mode when a useful maxforlive device can do that. For that price it should make me a cup of coffee. I think comparing Push with Maschine is relevant actually. I've been harping on about NI's user experience focus. Think of the NKS standard just that move was so smart. Did you know NI have mapped some of their VSTs to Push straight out of 6 box - user experience. Maschine mk2 to mk3 userbility changes felt more substantial and more considered. Not the case with Push 3. I honestly think Ableton felt they had to do this to catch up with the competition. Unnecessary in my opinion. These guys make one of the best DAWs out there. Those algorithms, live capture, flexibility, their instruments, etc they are capable of crazy good s**t. When Maschine mk3 came out I wanted one, here I am also sticking with my Push 2
I am also buying the Push 3 controller for the MPE. Most of the premiere MPE controllers are priced above $700 (quite a few a priced above the push 3). So the price is actually pretty good considering that. The drawback of the Push 3 is that the scale mode currently only works with Ableton Live for the controller version. When comparing the push to Maschine you have to factor in the fact that playing instruments on the device isn’t the best experience. It is much better done on a keyboard. You don’t need a keyboard when using the push. I do think the push 3 may not be for people who preferring playing the keyboard. I for one have never warmed to playing the keyboard so I prefer the scale mode on the push and I always wanted to be able to play MPE on the push 2. Workflow is really important for any of these devices. I’ve never been a fan of Maschine’s workflow but I love the expansions so I use it anyway.
Good points. I think Maschine has scale mode also though, doesn't it? I'm curious why you find the Push easier to play instruments on since they seem pretty similar.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Size of the pads and more of them. Smaller pads work better for me when using it as an instrument. I can access more of them without having to select octave up. I did try the scale mode in Maschine once but I already had the push and preferred it. It may have been a different story if I got the Maschine first. I have the push because it has this scale mode. Everything else is secondary to me.
The Linnstrument 128 is only a bit more expensive than the non-standalone Push 3, while the larger one costs less than the standalone Push 3. Both units have more pads than the Push 3 (the 128 has 128 pads and the larger one has 256)
No device is perfect, but with some (Not all) reviewers they will never let on that fact. This right here is how ALL reviews should be. Me? I went for the launchpad pro 3/ Akai Midimix /Varying keyboards option, because nobody cares what equipment you use, only the music you make
In terms of 'music on the go' - I have a MPC Live II for 2 years now, and I've never regretted that choice. Up to 4 hours with built-in speakers. Inputs for guitars and microphones you can then put effects on. I've had so much fun with it, jamming with the guys at the beach, I can't imagine swapping it for a Maschine or a Push...
This was so helpful. I was looking to get the standalone Push 3 to use as a looper and play projects I would make in Ableton while playing live. I’ll just save the money and use my looper pedal instead.
I have akai force, push2 and apc 40mkii. Force in control mode seems to be the most advanced realtime performance controller for live looping. It just has major bugs with the akai network midi driver in that it steals focus and locks other midi usb controllers in windows until you power cycle them. Apc has that special pedal input for live looping like a boss rc303, where as push2 has dedicated fixed length button. There is unique functions on all 3 that you wish were available to all 3. Ultimately its what workflow works best, but standalone is always limited, better to spend money on stage laptop and use them as control surfaces. Rkc generally bounces all beef up tracks to audio stems only to not burden cpu/ram but i tend to work with both multiple midi and audio so ability to arm on press is very important to me with dedicated realtime buttons for arming.
If MPE was their party line, I’m very happy with my Push 2 & Roli Seaboard Rise 25 - both of which I bagged for less than 1k. Very good objective review. Ta
Thank you! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.
The #1 argument really is that music on the go isn’t practical. In the future when the internals are more powerful it may be nice to upgrade for performances
funny thing is, internals can be powerful enough. companies are just hell-bent on catching a good margin on the components used so they choose trash (low end) DSP/CPU's that are a few generations old (3 generations old in the case of the push 3), a 10th gen i3 processor is just laughable these days.
There are nearly no real live sets with Maschine, or MPC Live or even Oktatrack. People don't use standalone devices in a live set / professional enviroment. It is a hobbyist / phone app market that this is playing a role in and for that it is doing a good job. Especially comparing it to when Akai or NI started their standalone devices. Those things were just complete crashing bugfests in the beginning.
Thanks for the great review - even though to me, and probably to me only, the Push 3 is just perfect! I got one, because I’m completely new to the producing „game“ (just been DJing until now) and I did not have an audio interface prior to that - so at least one point goes here for me inside this price tag 😅 also the standalone capability is just phenomenal to me as it’s firstly more accessible to me then the full on DAW on the computer screen and secondly I’m still the most interested in performing rather than producing in a studio-environment. As also my DJ-grat. is stand-alone, the Push 3 is the perfect gear next to that - and I can’t have that so easily with other brands right now than the Push. So yes - it’s a higher price to pay, but to me 100% worth it!! Nonetheless I definitely agree with you for other usecases, which are not so specific as mine 😊
I was hoping the Push 3 would have been a hybrid that allows you to switch between the 2 Live modes (Session and Arrangement) perhaps switch the pads to be more like Maschine, and a bigger touchscreen to manage arrangement view. The price is also well beyond affordable. It's as disappointing as the Maschine+ was.
i am no where near the level of professional as any of the artists you mentioned but i think Push 3 for me is still a pretty essential tool. ive been trying to find an all in one device to bring as my main brain for live shows that offered a decent amount of hands on control. I was using a Roland MC707 for a bit, but have kinda maxed it out for what i want it to do live and was a bit frustrating honestly. Began looking at Force and MPC as option just before Push 3 was announced. They gave me what i needed in terms of memory and being able to loop and play long audio files, but that would require a lot of prep work in Ableton first as its my main DAW. Push 3 kinda cuts out a lot of tedious work and transferring files (not all, mind you.) So having a streamlined work flow is a huge bonus! As for the battery option, i see it as more of a fail safe than anything. So many times my laptop has gotten unplugged during a show and i dont notice until the low battery warning pops up. much better than just having a device go completely dead! Also good for when you're waiting to load up on stage and maybe the band before you is taking too long, you can get everything set up in the green room or whatever and just be ready to go once the band if off
Yes! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.
The appeal of the standalone is for me, as someone who spent a lot of time gigging, one less thing to carry. That's one of the things I like about the Push in general - it does a lot. I can replace my regular keyboard. It's also a fun idea that I could just take the thing into another room in my house and play it the way I do a guitar. MPE was the main thing that really interested me, kind of for the same reason. I use an EWI for a lot of expressive synth stuff, and the push 3 could potentially replace that. It's the full realization of the push as an INSTRUMENT, not just a "controller." That being said, when I'm not trying to do something live and I want a synth, I usually end up going with my standard keyboard and my EWI because those are just more familiar experiences, there is less to think about when it comes to playing something.
Don’t get the obsession with MPE. It’s not anything you can’t accomplish with an aftertouch enabled keyboard and pitch and mod wheels. I sometimes need to turn off aftertouch when I don’t want unintended modulation of inputs. MPE has its place where it is valuable as does a pitch and mod wheel. It’s not something I need full time. The verdict on the Push 3 isn’t written yet. We need to see what fixes they will incorporate, if any.
Good points on MPE. On a verdict for the Push 3, I'm a firm believer that we should evaluate a product's value proposition as it is now, not what it might be in the future. If they add more to the Push 3 then we can revaluate at that point. But I don't think it's a good idea to buy a product hoping it will have something you want in the future.
The standalone mode here is a fantasy. Having dragged many a device along on a business trip...you always things you're gonna sit down and write something really good. Then you watch youtube until you fall asleep. Same with trips to the park or whatever, or long commutes (I used to sit on a ferry for an hour)...in practice this is just not where great ideas have come from for me. Only having an hour or two...i just don't know why you'd bother. Standalone here isn't simpler, it's just the same software with a smaller screen. If you want a fun standalone DAW that's a challenge to use, has limitations, easily upgradeable, great timing, the MPC 1000 with JJOS continues to be cheap and widely available.
Everyone's different. Confession - I'm not in the market for a Push 3 - though I have 'a' Push. I was on a flight with a 2011 Dell and version 9.5 and could get 6-8 tracks working and a plugin or so, and created a finished track without watching youtube. I mean, some folks can write music in 15 minutes on the guitar or keys - for me it's the guitar. Great ideas don't seem to be site specific for me. Good ideas seem to suggest themselves. I'd be interested in trying the MPC 1000; thanks for the suggestion.
Thankyou for honest review as an Ableton user, personally I wanted to love this but theres just some buts..... I really like the idea but tbh owning akai well ....theres just some red flags on here that I sooo wanted to buy but perhaps not....
Peabody Scientific - Dude Peabody for two grand, it better support arrangement view. Given that the average salaries at Ableton were published online - they definitely have the resources to do so - to do the R&D, to accommodate arrangement view. (Which would take a very different controller, obviously far more of the beast would have to be 'screen' to accommodate arrangement view.) The ability to upgrade the hardware is brilliant, period. It's very cynical though, that the hardware provided for your 2 grand is from yesteryear. For two grand, the controller should have had the best pads in history, state of the art hardware and accommodate arrangement view. Standalone should be the entire "in a box" computer and mouse version of the program - except in a standalone controller - and it's not. Thanks for a good, fair video.
I'm trying to learn more about what kinds of arrangement view functionality people are looking for, since this was not a huge item for me personally. What's an example of a device that has an arrangement-like view or what would you like to be able to do on the Push in arrangement view? Thanks for watching and commenting!
Push 3 lost me when I couldn’t bring my whole sample library to the system. Push 3 only allows the 256 ssd that’s native. Once I added my ableton live and library, that native ssd was cooked. I have at least a gig of sounds. Also, It’s not that easy to upgrade the hardware like advertised. 2 bad signs in my book. But it was cool to play on, but it’s underpowered for the price. AND it shuts down and most times restarts if you push it to hard
I was thinking all these same things when looking at it. I think the battery really is a safe guard to power outs, but everything in the performance would need to be battery operated for this not to effect your set.. including the speakers?? lol What is interesting is being able to upgrade the CPU... I'm wondering is we will see people start to make their own standalone for it and load the Linux OS with this Ableton program on it and maybe even mod the case to be thicker to add more.. then even a custom battery when at it. As for the MPE... I'm a massive fan of that and for that reason the price bump of the controller version is fine. It is good you can upgrade later because I don't see a need for the standalone unless I wanted a hardware setup dedicated to beat making, I would not be playing live (yet). It would be nicer if Akai could bring out a second edition of the FORCE for this as they got close to a hardware DAW with the FORCE it just doesn't have multi track recording. After watching this I am decided that I will get the controller and not the standalone, it did help afirm things I was already thinking.
I bought a linnstrument 128 you can program the colors with CC 20-22 But then again I've been programming Max since 3.5. I look at useful machines in a different way.
Currently trying to imagine doing live performance with stock devices only, particularly for electric guitar and bass. The ableton amp sims are useable but... I can't love them. I could get a non-standalone Push3 (for the MPE and fancy pads) and a refurbished M1 and have no limitations.
Funny you mention the amp sims. I lucked into one great sound that sounds great but mostly I'd say they're terrible. I asked Live Support years ago, how did the demo of the amps sound so good and a guy from Ireland on their support team said "mate, they're incredibly fiddly." To their credit, Ableton said that VERY subtle changes on the amp controls are the difference between usable sounds and not usable. Sorry to go on; you're the first dude I've ever read comment on their amp simulations. For me the cabinet is the worst thing about the simulations. The amps with infinite fiddling can be made to sound okay but the cabinets are terrible. Like I say, I got lucky and lucked into one incredible, very realistic sound, but it was sheer luck. Naturally I've saved that miracle so it can be recalled. (Two of their legacy midi guitar imitations from version 8, are fantastic, by the way.) Good luck with Push 3 non-standalone. Let us know how it works out.
I just got the Push 3 Controller (still within the return period) as an upgrade from Push 2. The improvements are small and incremental, and it has me thinking about whether buying a Linnstrument 128 would be a better use of my money. I really wish Ableton would have gone with a 12x12 grid, as that would have opened up new chromatic layouts. Also, MIDI editing on the device screen still seems awkward. Let’s just say that there is room for improvement.
The missing MPE capability was what bothered me most with the Push 2. Hence I switched to the Push 3 recently. And I’m glad I went for the Standalone instead of the Controller. It opened up possibilities that I didn’t think of when buying it. E.g. I love using it as a multi-track recorder for a few hardware synths and a small Eurorack case without needing to start up the computer as usual, and being able to simply drag those files via WiFi from the Push into Ableton Live onto the computer later on as needed. It also works brilliant as a sampler and looper, again without the need to start up the computer. Regarding the “on the go” scenario I wouldn’t use it on the bus or train anyway; but I already used it in another room, at my friends home or in my favorite café while on battery … and I really enjoyed it.
In terms of the standalone version I can’t really comment too much on that as I don’t own it. But on face value I would say the Intel platform is not a great choice, you do not get the full Live experience in this box and the 2hr battery life is a joke. However, in terms of the controller version I think you should get your hands on one and spend some time with it beforehand. Then you will understand this particular version of Push 3 is not a step backwards but a leap forwards. I owned a Push 2 & regretfully sold it many years ago. I now own the Push 3 controller. Initially I was (& still am) a little disappointed with the screen as I feel they could have improved this. Regardless, as I spend more time with this machine I realise how incredible it is. The build quality is Supremely Excellent & the improvements they made over Push 2 really do help to speed up your workflow. It’s early days but so far I’m very impressed with this little device. I strongly suggest you get a Push 3 controller if you can and ignore the standalone.
Potentially it's very good. It's up to ableton to deliver on promises. I have a push two and the only reason to upgrade would be for mpe. If not then wait. There is no major rush. Standalone isn't a step backward. That might have been the firmware it shipped with. It's an i3 processor btw.....the lag isn't due to being a poor process but rather optimization. Having used it now for say 8 hrs? After the first update, its smooth
Good to know the performance is improving. I still feel it's a step backwards because of the limitations (no 3rd party plug-ins, limited upgradability of the internals, battery life) but I understand it still has appeal as a standalone device to many people. Thank you for the comment and for watching!
I jam with a guitar player and a drummer and I kinda wanted to get a Push 3 because it would mean alot less stuff to haul over to the jam space and I could use it in my studio and just unplug one thing and bring it over. Being able to ditch the laptop, the interface, and just having less cables seems like a huge bonus.
It could definitely lighten the load. How do you jam with them, does everyone plug into Ableton Live? Or are you just playing Ableton instruments alongside the guitar and drummer separately?
@@rancorprimegames The Push is the most comprehensive controller for Live, and the Push 3 is the only option if you don't want to bring a laptop. The downside is that you can only play Ableton instruments on the standalone, no other 3rd party VST synths or instruments. The Maschine MK3 could be an option. It has an interface and there are control scripts for Ableton available that give you a lot of control. And you would be able to play any VST instrument. The Arturia MiniLab could work too. Lots of control and pretty portable, but you would potentially need to bring an interface unless you have a cable that plugs into the headphone port.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Yeah the loss of VSTs is huge. I'll probably stick with the laptop for now then. Gonna look into the MK3 tho. thanks for the input and the video! cheers
im not getting the standalone not the way I work - I dont envisage myself leaving the computer at home and I use gigperformer 4, which is essential for my track heavy sets. the fact it's modular and the fact they have said it will be upgradable kind of addresses the future proof doubts.. not quite up to my M1 though, but I have the controller on order as I do a lot of slicing and clip building on the fly and the MPE is something I have already incorporated with the Expressive E touche.
Good review! One of the features that really appealed to me was the CV outputs as I'd really love to use it with my eurorack. That said, for the price theres no way I'm upgrading from my Push 1. Also I'm really glad you showed the prices of the standalone components! It's shocking to me how much theyre charging for those cheap processors / ram / memory! And the fact they say on the website that providing your own hardware would damage the Push seems sus to me...
Thank you! I went through the component prices kind of quickly, I'm glad you caught it. I think it really puts in perspective what you are getting, but also how much future upgradability options we are likely to actually see. Future upgrades is one area where I think there has been a little bit of over excitement given that we don't know what that will actually be.
Hey this is a great video, and honestly so much more than a "push 3" review. I'm 29 yo and making music since 10 or so years. And frankly I never thought of midi controllers and stand alone devices as of something "coming back". Interesting perspective there for younger generations of music makers I think, well at least to me. Cheers!
I put a simple little rubber bumper on my P2 power button. You can get them at your local office supply store. They’re designed to put on the backs of picture frames or on the bottom of items that might scratch furniture. 😊
Theyre setting too high of a premium for the standalone version in my opinion. Good to see some content makers speaking on this as well. I simply do not see how the extra upgrade hardware to make it standalone can justify the price set for it. EDIT: That being said, I think the Push 3 tethered version is pretty great although it does not offer as much as I had hoped as an upgrade for people who already own Push 2.
Most of the time it's pointless to upgrade to the next version up, wait at least next version+1 for it to be worthwhile. I'm an original Push owner and mildly considering the Push 3 standalone, but then also considering getting a steam deck to use Ableton on the go.
Seems a bit inane to complain about it being hard to recommend to non-Ableton users, like obviously. Everything isn't for everyone, and anyone who should get a Push doesn't need to be recommended it because it's obviously the right controller for them. I bought the original Push and didn't bother upgrading to Push 2 as it didn't offer me enough extra. Push 3 is intriguing to me because I've been looking for a mobile device to sequence ideas I've made on my Polyend Tracker.
Appreciate the comment. There were lots of people who didn't use Live that were interested in the Push 2 because it seemed like a cool device to use and because Live is well like by the people that use it. That's at least part of the strategy behind the Push for Ableton: create another way to introduce Live to people that might not be using it but would like a device like the Push. It's just taking a big chance for the buyer, though.
@@peabodyscientific2082 well I'm not really commenting as such on Ableton's strategy. More from a user perspective, if I was a non-Ableton user I honestly wouldn't care about Push at all given there are so many other options. I think Push is only special for people already locked in Ableton workflow/headspace. Obviously I get making a video for youtube you're speaking to more folks outside that group.
Great video. The embargoed reviews level of kissing up put iPhone reviews to shame. Not a fan of Ableton offering a discount to the reviewers. I’ve had my Push 3 controller since yesterday and I like it. If I had a Push 2, I wouldn’t have upgraded. A lot of Push 2’s are hitting the market and that’s probably the smarter bet. Hoping the upgradability will inspire other mods. An OLED display would really shine on this.
I only found out about the discount to reviewers when Patrik Veltruský mentioned it in his review. I was pretty shocked about that detail and don't think any other reviewer disclosed that offer. That's sort of an issue IMO. Thank you for watching and for commenting!
its a compromise tool ....and fallow a strategic Live logic how to produce music... In that frame they make a lot of people happy and bring beginner and Pro's a full Studio in a box environment ...and managed it well... ....on the oher side the minimal evolving design and limited additions and evolution and the hard price tag is the sad part for me in that story... - a controller only Version...(cheaper) - only 8 encoder not 16 encoders - no push capable encoder s - no global snapshot control on the Push 3 device. ....& internal Live option - no racksnapshot Push 3 buttons - limited to none own controller layout options setup control & page design,... internal in Live and for Push 3 .. - Controller setup control is total outdated Cubase / Bitwig etc.. are way more fleadged to bring controller setups to lifeqith no needed coding skills..
Very helpful video. My dreams of an Ableton style clip/scene workflow in a single device that I can take out of the studio into the living room (my 2nd favorite place to make music) seemed have been met by the Push 3, but I'm starting to be skeptical about the prospects of standalone devices. Thanks for your perspective!
There is a market for mobile standalone. I bought the MPC Live 2 because there wasn't a Push 3 yet. Making music from a single device everywhere around your house (and outside of it) and not being stuck to a computer or studio setup really is inspiring and liberating.
I hear you. But as an owner of a push 3 it's extremely overhyped. The push's interface is way too limited utilized 40% of the features of live. Complex maxforlive devices such as Opal and others will never ever work properly on push. Complex sequencer patches will ha e issues due to the small screen and limited physical ui. There's no support for external drives. Most stand alone devices have this or a really streamlined way of transferring files. MPE is extremely sensitive I've actually turned it off. Because after a while it starts to sound corny. It's also very very big. There are too many critical features from live that are missing at launch. Also as mentioned in this video. The battery sucks. If you have larger sets of 10 or more tracks mixed midi and audio battery slips down to 85 minutes to 1.5 hours. It' crashes and hangs ALL THE TIME. I've never used an elektron device.or any standalone device this unstable. It's comical how unstable it is. My 14 inch MacBook pro m1pl max.with live can run Pigments and other 3rd party plugins the push can't and never will. It's a let down. I'm kinda bummed with my push 3. Because to make the songs I really want to make I have to go back to my laptop. The audio interface also sucks. But that's another story.
@@City2x I only have a Push 2 so I can't judge the Push 3. But when talking about making music on a mobile standalone device it is mostly about sketching out ideas, not about finishing a track. Fully arranging, mixing and mastering a track is what you typically do in your studio on a DAW. Push was never designed for arrangement view and that's perfectly fine when sketching out the elements of a track (clips) and the basic building blocks of a song structure (scenes).
Incoming fixes and upgrades aside, it seems to me the Push 3 is doing what it is supposed to be doing, which is sketching out ideas in Session view in standalone. Although I do agree they need to fix the short battery life.
@@Drrolfski 2k is a lot of money to just sketch out track out. Ableton was a little disingenuous with their marketing of the device. It shouldnt have been released with all the bugs and half ass features or lack of features it has. I believe they'll fix some of these bugs later this fall. But I fear some of them may be related to the chioset they're using and may be difficult to squash. I suspect the chips the dev'd with may be slightly different that what shipped because a lot of these bugs elsewhere are Pri 1 showstoppers
@@City2x Someone made a video the other day where he would buy all the parts that makes up for a Push 3 (audio interface, laptop, 4 times 4x4 MPE controller, midi controller that can do all the stuff a Push 3 can do) and he came to the conclusion that the Push 3 is not bad value.
It also functions as an Ableton DAW controller so you can do more on it than just sketching in standalone.
Does it need fixing? Undoubtedly. But that could be expected of what is basically a generation 1 product. Making dedicated midi controllers is one thing, going into the business of standalone mobile computing is another thing altogether.
I think it will be a matter of time for a device like the Push 3 standalone to become really popular. The technology needs to become more efficient and affordable. Maybe Ableton is smart to get in early
MPE was the main selling point for me. I got a Push 3, and the fun you can have with every individual pad is insane. Furthermore, the lay-out of the push 3 is more intuitive, buttons have symbols instead of words, and the jogwheel is an amazing addition as well. While you really make good points, I think the whole is more than the sum of its parts, at least for the controller-version.
Thanks for the comment! Did you upgrade from the Push 2?
@@peabodyscientific2082 I did
@@MrFrussel Nice. I don't deny that MPE can be worth it, it looks very cool. I hope some of the improvements make it to the Push 2 though. Why not let us move through midi notes with the directional pads? Seems plausible.
For me Push 3 is actually the first Push I have been really interested in getting because of the way MPE works and integrates seems great. I have had an linnstrument which on the surface has a lot of similarities but it never really clicked with me fully so I sold it.
@@pleggli Never heard of Linnstrument. Those are reasonably priced, but the layout and small pads kind of put me of. A thing I really wish Push 3 had, is the ability to turn 4 pads into a bigger square, so you have more room to ' express' .
Best, honest (critical) and common sense PUSH 3 review I've watched. Thanks!!!
Wow, thank you! I appreciate you checking it out and hope it was helpful.
As a former gear junkie, I've stayed with push 1 and have no need to pay more for little. i'd rather spend the time creating than learning new gear.
Hardware is easier to learn than software; muscle memory, etc.
That said - I totally agree with you dude. I still have my Push 1, and have the dough, but won't upgrade.
How did you stop being a gear junkie ?
Is not what you have but what you do with what you have.
Entered rehab?
I totally get you. I’ve also kinda hit that gear wall too. I have so much stuff that adding to that pile is pointless. I’m exhausted and more interested in writing music and sample hunting than anything
If you already own Live Suite, then it's an absolute no-brainer. IMO, the improved pads with awesome MPE tech, the dedicated MIDI capture button, audio interface, and the jogwheel alone are reason enough to upgrade from a P2. Nothing else can compare. For $1K, you're basically getting a Linnstrument (cost more than a P3), a modern MPC (also costs more), and Ableton in one package. That's insane value. That's not even taking into account how much better it'll get with updates down the line.
Have you even tried it?
It may be a no-brainer because you can return it.
If you buy one - seriously write a review somewhere.
Yes, I own a Push and Suite 11.
THANK YOU for mentioning the feasibility of realistically busting out the $2000 laptop or instrument on the bus. Where I live, public transit has become one of the least practical places to work on music(like it ever was practical at all). People literally get away with much worse than stealing a laptop all the time, so the less attention you draw to yourself the better. I guess in the context of “why the battery in push 3”, I could see it still being beneficial as a failsafe if the unit gets unplugged during a show, for instance. But yeah, part of me wonders they’re banking on a bunch of “Content Creator/Influencers”™️ wanting to go make videos like “EPIC WATERFALL PUSH SESSION- PRODUCER GOES OFF GRID TO MAKE THIS FIRE BEAT (INSANE FINGER DRUMMING MUST WATCH) 🤯🔥🤩”
I think I've already seen that video! 😂
LOL. You remark was insanely funny! Good job.
Yeah, people 'literally' get away with killing others on buses - which is dunno - worse than having your Push 3 stolen.
I really appreciate this very relevant criticism. I would love a Push 3, but it needs to be improved to be worth the price.
Thank you for your review. Definitely saved me from getting stand alone push 3. Saying that , I literally have to wheel around a suitcase with my push2, laptop, novation launch control, soundcard, headphones and all the wires. Had hope it would ve lessened the load
I kind of like the idea of limiting myself to 8 inputs and stock plugins.I have a hardware-heavy setup, but keep getting lost in trillions of options whenever I sit at my computer and use Live.
You’ve convinced me not to get the standalone one. I’m probably still going to get the non-standalone one and upgrade from my push 1, because the note editing and MPE functionalities look really enticing to me. Hopefully with the upgrade kit in the future they’ll have a battery with better capacity. Nice vid!
Wow, really glad I was helpful! Going from the Push 1 to the 3, there is probably enough to make it worth it. Even the Push 2 really improved the experience from the 1, so it's probably a good time for you to upgrade.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Thanks, this really put some things into perspective for me.
I'm in the unfortunate position of having just bought a Push 2 Bundle just before they announced the Push 3, and just wanted an honest opinion of what I'm missing out on.
It really doesn't seem like I'm missing out on all that much with the non-standalone version. However even the small details you mention have me wishing I'd waited! 🙈
My bundle is still boxed tho, so I'm hoping i can trade it in somewhere for the 3, as i doubt Ableton will allow me, now they have it discontinued... 🙄
Thanks again! 👍
Thank you for your honesty!!! I was waiting for the next Push to be released but now that I’m seeing it I’m having second thoughts about it as a keyboard player I’m just thinking about about getting a MPC style pad and call it a day!!!
Thank you for watching the video, glad it was helpful. I suspect we will see more keyboards with various kinds of support for MPE in the next year, so it might be worth it to wait and see what comes out.
I sold Push 2 first day Push 3 announced. I will prolly sell Maschine+, and will get Push 3 Controller only. Next, I'll only spend precious music money on analog synths and keep playing iPhone/iPad as a mobile groovebox.
I was hunting for an MPC2000 a while back and I realized something dumb - if I just wait long enough, the gear I have today will be retro soon too. I like the older stuff anyway, so stepping out of the way of the hype train only makes sense. I’m still rocking my Octatrack, a box that’s now 11 years old.
Too many overrated new generation hipster controller trash EVERYWHERE….These kids with their GAS for the next cool hipster toy… these companies got people hooked. Rushing out the next new unfinished controller to rake in sales; only to go by the waste side in 2 years….MPC 2000, and Octatracks are built like tanks, and made to stand the test of time. Good for you bro seeing through the hype train. Sick of these new generation kids wasting all their hard earn money for the next toy they don’t need. These companies don’t give a shit about innovation anymore. Only to target a new generation of consumers getting them hooked on the GAS train.
Excellent video! Thanks for the honesty and well balanced review! It’s refreshing in a landscape where every CZcams video feels like a marketing video rather than a true review video.
yes so true he doesn't even have the unit :)
feels like ? It just a big commercial nowdays
@@bresk13 Don't confuse negativity and honesty, just because this video does not support ableton interests doesn't mean it's "honest".
And you can't test something without truly testing it, I'm surprised there is a crowd for this kind of nonsense.
@@xfghffhfg This is what's mindblowing about this "review". He doesn't even have the unit in question and people "thanks for the honest review". Wtf?
agreed here actually, MPE is the only thing I wanna upgrade from push 2 for.
I just didn't get that same excitement like when I watched the push 2 launch video.
No one is talking about how underwhelming the interface specs are either.
true, the preamps need some more headroom, 96k sample rate is wishful thinking, maybe with future hardware. Not passing phantom power is also big oopsie. In line phantom power adapters aren't too pricey, but i think they dropped the ball on that one.
While I am not at all interested in Push, as I use Cubase for 30 yrs and will never change DAW (not saying Live is bad, I can use it, and it is great for some things, but lacks other that I need), I tend to agree with your analysis with one remark about MIDI controller evolution. You are absolutely right, controllers have been evolving to substitute for instruments and bring that tactile feeling to music making process - however, initial controllers were made for something different entirely. Rewind to late eighties, most of the synths were either physical modelling, FM/PD or romplers. The overall design was to cram as many features as possible into keyboards with a few buttons. Most of the controls were buried deep in the menu and the only thing players could perform with would be a pitch bend and a mod wheel, quite often assigned to one, hard- to -change -without -digging parameter. Another example would be racks, all JVs, TX's etc. So, developers started producing relatively cheap MIDI controllers with faders to allow for flexible performance. This was the first time controllers were adapted to suit digital instruments (well, analogue too, but mostly digital). Legendary controllers like Fat Boy and Knobby (funny for nowday's standards) were boxes that really helped unlock potential of the rack synths. Roland's PC series combined with Fat Boy would be something any decent controller looks nowdays, keys, faders etc. Just wanted to add this for the younger crowd, as it is a part of music tool's history. Funny enough, those controllers were not designed for use with the first computer software (PC300 was great with Cubase on Atari ST tho) and there was no deep integration in early DAWs. BTW while I am mostly using hardware instruments and computer for tracking and mixing only, I am an absolute fan of NI from early years and Generator, I had all incarnations of Maschine, except for this plus calamity. I get the race, but these products by NI, Akai and Live really dont cut it - built with mediocre specs and running OS that doesn't support bunch of stuff will forever mark these boxes as just a downgraded version of the computer.
Absolutely. I meant to add a note that I was mainly talking about the early computer-compatible controllers (and also a note that Acid is far from an "early DAW" but it was one of the first that I used).
Great comment. Thank you for sharing and for checking out the video.
At the end of 2014, I paid 799 Euros for a Push 1 with Ableton Live 9 Suite included. Still have and use that push1, but not enough to warrant an upgrade for that much money. MPE is awesome, but more controllers will have it for less money in the future. If I were a live performer, I would still use a laptop as a backup, so I agree on the limited value of the standalone version.
You are so right, my friend!
And those sponsored reviews are annoying, tbh. Who will tell you that there're so many things that are just not there yet...
Thanks for that. I was considering a new Push but I think I will stick with the Push 2 for now.
Glad this was helpful in making the decision! Thanks for watching.
Unrelated, love your ending. Feeling is mutual. Subbed before I got to the end due to your take on this. Well done!
Really appreciate that, thank you!
Push one is the real mvp!
I'm a Push 2 user and although I like it, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because there are so many great controllers out there now that don't lock you into using Ableton. I guess the 3 standalone has a MIDI Out...? So theoretically you could use it with another DAW, or "DAWless"...?...but in my opinion there are other controllers out there that cost much, much less that do more (and some have CV out), and you're not going to do finished tracks on the standalone Push 3 so it does become a direct comparison with those other controllers.
The sad fact is most the launch "Reviews" by CZcamsrs are thinly veiled sponsorships. They get the device for free, often get paid, and if they say anything critical whatsoever, they won't get free products from other manufacturers in the future, so their reviews are always positive in service of keeping the gravy train rolling.
I'm definitely going to go for a used Push 2. Push 2 already was a major price hike from Push 1 (which I own) and now Push 3 "pushes" the limit even further. I'm sorry Ableton, but a thousand bucks for a controller or two thousand bucks for a standalone instrument is just insane. I think the comparison with Maschine still holds true today, and that is 599 for the controller and 1199 for the standalone version. Heck, even the Deluge (which is an extremely versatile machine) goes for 600 bucks less than the standalone Push 3. I'm curious to see if this pricing strategy works for Ableton, because I really can't see many people buying a Push 3 at this price.
they are a billion dollar company - i think them being in the games for tens of years with billions of dollars i could say that they KNOW WHAT THEY R DOING with their MARKET RESEARCH vs. some youtube BRO...
@@thebicycleman8062 They're no where NEAR a billion dollar company, 'bro.' They're nowhere near the Fortune 1000 top companies by revenue. You know the 'internet?' It exists to check yourself before throwing out statements.
About one TENTH of that. I know, dudes like to exaggerate.
Now I like Ableton and use it all the time but facts are facts. Ableton's estimated annual revenue is currently $112.6M per year.
Appreciate your points here! Also I had to laugh when at the end of the video I realised it was my own finger pointing at the power button 😂
I do also think it’s important to balance all the viewpoints out there, and in the heat of the moment and for a brand / concept a lot of us love it can be challenging perhaps, so it’s great to have yours too. Andri
Thank you Andri! I'm definitely not calling anyone out for their review, and if Ableton had offered to send me a review unit I'm sure I would have been as excited as everyone else. It did seem like we needed a different perspective, and to be fair I did start to see more videos like mine after the launch reviews.
And thank you for your review! I enjoyed it and it was one of the few that had a close up of the power button. :)
Thanks for this, Peabody Scientific.
My huge complaint is this is regardless of who made it, what DAW it is for...imho it's YEARS behind it's time. Sure it can do some slick stuff. Looks nice. No denying.
The analogy I use - a great friend in California owns an IT company. He just now got fiber in his home. You know how long Google, alone, had dark fiber purchased and just sitting idle? Finally with Fiber this dude is getting the speeds of yesteryear he deserves - in 2023. Besides costly R&D, I can't think of a single thing that would have prevented Push 3 - years ago.
Does Push 3 come quite close to reproducing the entire software experience, mouse and all in a standalone device (I know there's a non-standalone)? No.
On the plus side, Ableton implemented a truly appreciated move - ability to upgrade hardware. Taken down a notch by providing - the hardware of yesteryear. Surely Ableton could have bought much hotter hardware and received bulk discounts for volume, in say, California. True, with the memory plant burning, Covid-19, the death of places like 'Fry's' (a place in California where anyone with a brain could get burning-edge hardware on the cheap) hardware is no longer cheap. But Ableton with it's resources (their average salary published online proves this) could without question, have procured better hardware.
For me, Ableton has made some obvious genius moves with their software over the years. For example, there's not a musician since Homer that hasn't said "jeez, I wish I could remember what I just played." Capture MIDI solved that. It's not like they don't do some things exactly right.
Ableton can't please everyone with Push 3, I get it. For those that love it, I wish them God speed. I'm mainly interested in the degree to which the current Push 3 unshackles them totally, from the software.
I do have high praise for Suite 11 V.3.0 (now on 3.3). The long autowarp feature works incredibly well, and I use it and I'll take it. But as an Ableton insider proves in his videos, this too could have been implemented as he says, "YEARS ago."
One last thing. There's not a single person I know - and I obviously know very few people out of 7 billion, that doesn't feel that music created with the aid of a controller sounds better. I'm not really sure why - theories exist. With my own music NOT using a controller and the sets without - just not nearly as good. So, I feel everyone should get SOME sort of controller, even a cheap one and see how they like it/improves their music. Before they even dream of dropping two grand....
P.S. Yes, I own a Push and was an 'earliest' adopter, all those years ago with Push 1.
I'm also seeing reports that people in the US are receiving Push 3's with British power plugs. Not sure what's going on at Ableton.
Im not going to argue your point. But put it this way, I was using elektron devices before the standalone push. The functionality of all of them together doesn’t even cover what the push 3 standalone does and costs way, way more than it. The only thing I can readily think of is the octatrack real time recording \ buffer functionality, as the exception. Maybe at a stretch, the analog synthesis and somewhat more immediate setup of synthesis (still have a moog Mavis + A4)
Your point stands if you argue that anything towards dedicated hardware except for a MIDI controller is pointless.
I think you're probably right that for someone wanting to go DAWless the Push 3 is probably an excellent product. As I mentioned in another comment, I guess I'm more skeptical of premium price points for standalones having started out with standalones back in the day and remembering why DAW + midi controller was so appealing in the first place. But yeah, there is probably no standalone device with anything close to Ableton Live as it's internal sequencer.
Thank you for your comment and for watching.
@@peabodyscientific2082 I get you. Let’s start by making Elektron to stop asking 1 grand for a distortion pedal and the rest will follow :)
I'm a push 2 long time user, let's make things clear: 1) compare it push 3 controller version (~$1k) not the standalone ($2k+) is fair otherwise it's dishonest. 2) do you really need to carry around such a big device and pay extra $1k for a 1~2 hour of battery life? 3) if point 2 is not your priority, go with the controller version. 4) mpe is cool but not necessary for certain types of music. In few words: if you have the push 2 is not worth the upgrade. If you don't have push 2, the push 3 controller is as great as push 2 + you have mpe. If you want to go portable... find something that is light and relatively small. My experience: my sp404-mk2 is great to play around, koala sampler is even more cheap and portable, but in the studio, push2 all the way. If you have a bigger budget and you want to go portable, maybe MPC Live 2 could be an option.
Thanks for the objectivity.. Helped a lot
The standalone is definitely expensive, but the controller version is a solid upgrade over Push2-which you know because you outlined some of the best features in this video. When you consider that inflation has driven up the cost of just about everything, $1000 doesn't seem that crazy when you consider the new MPE pads and the built-in interface. It's a fair point that most people already have an interface, though. I'd like to see the controller version not come with the interface or have a 3rd option without it, priced closer to the old Push2.
I still think the Push 3 is an amazing piece of gear and a solid upgrade over Push2. The standalone won't be for everyone, but for the people who want that, this will be the new king of standalone devices, especially for those who want the ability to easily go back to the PC to finish a track after a jam session. That alone is worth the price of admission over something like the MPC Live or Maschine+ (both expensive devices as well).
Great comment. Fair points, and very well reasoned.
Thank you for the comment and for watching!
Totally agreed. Controller for $1000 is a good deal for MPE and ADAT alone. Standalone for an extra $1000 is too much for most. What I am hoping to see soon is some discussion regarding stability and Max4Live. If the price point is intended for professionals who need flexibility or specific setups, then these advanced concerns seem more relevant in the standalone discussion.
On a mpc you can finish a track though..lol
Paypigs gonna paypig
@@buckbreaker5185 Poors gonna poor
I agree with your closing statement. The Push 3 does exactly what the Push 2 does with the exception of MPE pads, but it doesnt seem like that much of an upgrade as the Push 2 was to the Push. I can wait for MPE, especially since i just bought a Push 2 last Summer.
I agree with all your points and really do think even if I were to perform live, I'd rather stick to my powerful laptop and have the Push 3 as a controller. As to the battery, on a standalone device I see why it would be beneficial. While I definitely would plug in even for standalone sessions at home, if I wanted to move the device (from my sofa to my workstation) I'd much rather not have to save and turn it off rather than just unplug it and move it over. I think this is the actual point in the battery.
The thing that will probably hook me in is the Adat expansion on the stand alone which will allow me to record all of my hardware synths while Jaming Yes I could go straight into my Daw via My quantum but them I am working across platforms and having to deal with latency To be able to sample and build tracks playing live is something that I have wanted to be able to do for ages
Thanks for this, it’s good to know that there is still honest reviewers out there.
Thank you! Appreciate you checking it out and hope it was helpful.
Thank you for sharing your honest thoughts. I agree 100%. Was starting to wonder if these reviewers were paid to say only nice things. Too expensive - it doesn't come with the full featured DAW. Also think missed opportunities by ableton with that jog wheel - where is arrangement mode when a useful maxforlive device can do that. For that price it should make me a cup of coffee. I think comparing Push with Maschine is relevant actually. I've been harping on about NI's user experience focus. Think of the NKS standard just that move was so smart. Did you know NI have mapped some of their VSTs to Push straight out of 6 box - user experience. Maschine mk2 to mk3 userbility changes felt more substantial and more considered. Not the case with Push 3. I honestly think Ableton felt they had to do this to catch up with the competition. Unnecessary in my opinion. These guys make one of the best DAWs out there. Those algorithms, live capture, flexibility, their instruments, etc they are capable of crazy good s**t. When Maschine mk3 came out I wanted one, here I am also sticking with my Push 2
Great breakdown ..I subscribed straight away 🙏🏾🙏🏾
I am also buying the Push 3 controller for the MPE. Most of the premiere MPE controllers are priced above $700 (quite a few a priced above the push 3). So the price is actually pretty good considering that. The drawback of the Push 3 is that the scale mode currently only works with Ableton Live for the controller version. When comparing the push to Maschine you have to factor in the fact that playing instruments on the device isn’t the best experience. It is much better done on a keyboard. You don’t need a keyboard when using the push. I do think the push 3 may not be for people who preferring playing the keyboard. I for one have never warmed to playing the keyboard so I prefer the scale mode on the push and I always wanted to be able to play MPE on the push 2. Workflow is really important for any of these devices. I’ve never been a fan of Maschine’s workflow but I love the expansions so I use it anyway.
Good points. I think Maschine has scale mode also though, doesn't it? I'm curious why you find the Push easier to play instruments on since they seem pretty similar.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Size of the pads and more of them. Smaller pads work better for me when using it as an instrument. I can access more of them without having to select octave up. I did try the scale mode in Maschine once but I already had the push and preferred it. It may have been a different story if I got the Maschine first. I have the push because it has this scale mode. Everything else is secondary to me.
The Linnstrument 128 is only a bit more expensive than the non-standalone Push 3, while the larger one costs less than the standalone Push 3. Both units have more pads than the Push 3 (the 128 has 128 pads and the larger one has 256)
No device is perfect, but with some (Not all) reviewers they will never let on that fact. This right here is how ALL reviews should be. Me? I went for the launchpad pro 3/ Akai Midimix /Varying keyboards option, because nobody cares what equipment you use, only the music you make
Excellent review - thanks for the perspective.
A thoughtful review. Thank you!
I just want to know if they’re going to give push 2 the same updates as the standalone 3. I don’t see why they couldn’t.
I feel like the midi clip editing could definitely be implemented on the Push 2 at least.
Very nice video, very good points, been thinking the same, you just confirmed it, cheers.
Arturia teased that they are launching their own MPE controller, I'm going to wait to see what that looks like before getting anything else.
If the Keylab gets refreshed with MPE, that would be something!
In terms of 'music on the go' - I have a MPC Live II for 2 years now, and I've never regretted that choice. Up to 4 hours with built-in speakers. Inputs for guitars and microphones you can then put effects on. I've had so much fun with it, jamming with the guys at the beach, I can't imagine swapping it for a Maschine or a Push...
Great video man, thanks ❤
This was so helpful. I was looking to get the standalone Push 3 to use as a looper and play projects I would make in Ableton while playing live. I’ll just save the money and use my looper pedal instead.
I have akai force, push2 and apc 40mkii. Force in control mode seems to be the most advanced realtime performance controller for live looping. It just has major bugs with the akai network midi driver in that it steals focus and locks other midi usb controllers in windows until you power cycle them. Apc has that special pedal input for live looping like a boss rc303, where as push2 has dedicated fixed length button. There is unique functions on all 3 that you wish were available to all 3. Ultimately its what workflow works best, but standalone is always limited, better to spend money on stage laptop and use them as control surfaces. Rkc generally bounces all beef up tracks to audio stems only to not burden cpu/ram but i tend to work with both multiple midi and audio so ability to arm on press is very important to me with dedicated realtime buttons for arming.
wow! acid 4! like back in the days!
If MPE was their party line, I’m very happy with my Push 2 & Roli Seaboard Rise 25 - both of which I bagged for less than 1k. Very good objective review. Ta
I’m just thankful you was honest. Most of these reviewers lie because it’s able to they just say is the best thing out.
Push best tool ever ❤
Nice review! By the way, what stand is it you're using for your push? Been looking for something similar.
Thank you!
It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.
Thank you for this much needed video
I hope it was helpful! Thank you for watching.
Great Video!! What stand are you using for the PUSH 2 in your video?
Thank you! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand. Great piece of gear, very versatile.
The #1 argument really is that music on the go isn’t practical. In the future when the internals are more powerful it may be nice to upgrade for performances
funny thing is, internals can be powerful enough. companies are just hell-bent on catching a good margin on the components used so they choose trash (low end) DSP/CPU's that are a few generations old (3 generations old in the case of the push 3), a 10th gen i3 processor is just laughable these days.
Thank you my friend
There are nearly no real live sets with Maschine, or MPC Live or even Oktatrack. People don't use standalone devices in a live set / professional enviroment. It is a hobbyist / phone app market that this is playing a role in and for that it is doing a good job. Especially comparing it to when Akai or NI started their standalone devices. Those things were just complete crashing bugfests in the beginning.
Thanks for the great review - even though to me, and probably to me only, the Push 3 is just perfect! I got one, because I’m completely new to the producing „game“ (just been DJing until now) and I did not have an audio interface prior to that - so at least one point goes here for me inside this price tag 😅 also the standalone capability is just phenomenal to me as it’s firstly more accessible to me then the full on DAW on the computer screen and secondly I’m still the most interested in performing rather than producing in a studio-environment. As also my DJ-grat. is stand-alone, the Push 3 is the perfect gear next to that - and I can’t have that so easily with other brands right now than the Push. So yes - it’s a higher price to pay, but to me 100% worth it!! Nonetheless I definitely agree with you for other usecases, which are not so specific as mine 😊
I was hoping the Push 3 would have been a hybrid that allows you to switch between the 2 Live modes (Session and Arrangement) perhaps switch the pads to be more like Maschine, and a bigger touchscreen to manage arrangement view.
The price is also well beyond affordable.
It's as disappointing as the Maschine+ was.
i am no where near the level of professional as any of the artists you mentioned but i think Push 3 for me is still a pretty essential tool. ive been trying to find an all in one device to bring as my main brain for live shows that offered a decent amount of hands on control. I was using a Roland MC707 for a bit, but have kinda maxed it out for what i want it to do live and was a bit frustrating honestly. Began looking at Force and MPC as option just before Push 3 was announced. They gave me what i needed in terms of memory and being able to loop and play long audio files, but that would require a lot of prep work in Ableton first as its my main DAW. Push 3 kinda cuts out a lot of tedious work and transferring files (not all, mind you.) So having a streamlined work flow is a huge bonus! As for the battery option, i see it as more of a fail safe than anything. So many times my laptop has gotten unplugged during a show and i dont notice until the low battery warning pops up. much better than just having a device go completely dead! Also good for when you're waiting to load up on stage and maybe the band before you is taking too long, you can get everything set up in the green room or whatever and just be ready to go once the band if off
Great points. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Yeah I might sell my Push 3 as well. I think Ableton didn't do enough market research on this.
Hearing you say maschine-ah like that is like using your finger nail to push that power button
😂 I feel that. It's a German product though, gotta give the proper pronunciation!
@@peabodyscientific2082 all good 👍🏾
Akia Force rocks. Just make music you already got more than you need.
Can you tell me what stand you use for your Push and how you like it? Thanks!
Yes! It's the On-Stage LPT7000 Deluxe Laptop Stand and I HIGHLY recommend it. It's way better than a rack mount because you can easily adjust it to different heights, and you can use it for all kinds of gear: laptop, midi controller, sheet music, lyric notebook. It has a sticky pad that keeps whatever you put on it right in place. One of my best studio buys lol.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Thanks! I was trying to figure it out and that one didn't show up in my search.
The appeal of the standalone is for me, as someone who spent a lot of time gigging, one less thing to carry. That's one of the things I like about the Push in general - it does a lot. I can replace my regular keyboard. It's also a fun idea that I could just take the thing into another room in my house and play it the way I do a guitar.
MPE was the main thing that really interested me, kind of for the same reason. I use an EWI for a lot of expressive synth stuff, and the push 3 could potentially replace that. It's the full realization of the push as an INSTRUMENT, not just a "controller."
That being said, when I'm not trying to do something live and I want a synth, I usually end up going with my standard keyboard and my EWI because those are just more familiar experiences, there is less to think about when it comes to playing something.
Don’t get the obsession with MPE. It’s not anything you can’t accomplish with an aftertouch enabled keyboard and pitch and mod wheels. I sometimes need to turn off aftertouch when I don’t want unintended modulation of inputs. MPE has its place where it is valuable as does a pitch and mod wheel. It’s not something I need full time.
The verdict on the Push 3 isn’t written yet. We need to see what fixes they will incorporate, if any.
Good points on MPE. On a verdict for the Push 3, I'm a firm believer that we should evaluate a product's value proposition as it is now, not what it might be in the future. If they add more to the Push 3 then we can revaluate at that point. But I don't think it's a good idea to buy a product hoping it will have something you want in the future.
The standalone mode here is a fantasy. Having dragged many a device along on a business trip...you always things you're gonna sit down and write something really good. Then you watch youtube until you fall asleep. Same with trips to the park or whatever, or long commutes (I used to sit on a ferry for an hour)...in practice this is just not where great ideas have come from for me. Only having an hour or two...i just don't know why you'd bother. Standalone here isn't simpler, it's just the same software with a smaller screen.
If you want a fun standalone DAW that's a challenge to use, has limitations, easily upgradeable, great timing, the MPC 1000 with JJOS continues to be cheap and widely available.
Everyone's different. Confession - I'm not in the market for a Push 3 - though I have 'a' Push.
I was on a flight with a 2011 Dell and version 9.5 and could get 6-8 tracks working and a plugin or so, and created a finished track without watching youtube. I mean, some folks can write music in 15 minutes on the guitar or keys - for me it's the guitar.
Great ideas don't seem to be site specific for me. Good ideas seem to suggest themselves. I'd be interested in trying the MPC 1000; thanks for the suggestion.
Followd because you said you don’t care about followers your channel sick as fuck I love it happy to a found it
Wow, thank you! I will (hopefully) have more good content coming.
Thankyou for honest review as an Ableton user, personally I wanted to love this but theres just some buts..... I really like the idea but tbh owning akai well ....theres just some red flags on here that I sooo wanted to buy but perhaps not....
Peabody Scientific - Dude Peabody for two grand, it better support arrangement view.
Given that the average salaries at Ableton were published online - they definitely have the resources to do so - to do the R&D, to accommodate arrangement view. (Which would take a very different controller, obviously far more of the beast would have to be 'screen' to accommodate arrangement view.)
The ability to upgrade the hardware is brilliant, period. It's very cynical though, that the hardware provided for your 2 grand is from yesteryear.
For two grand, the controller should have had the best pads in history, state of the art hardware and accommodate arrangement view. Standalone should be the entire "in a box" computer and mouse version of the program - except in a standalone controller - and it's not.
Thanks for a good, fair video.
I'm trying to learn more about what kinds of arrangement view functionality people are looking for, since this was not a huge item for me personally.
What's an example of a device that has an arrangement-like view or what would you like to be able to do on the Push in arrangement view?
Thanks for watching and commenting!
I control and record my modular system using the Push 3 in standalone. That in and of itself is worth the price of admission for me.
Many good thoughts here. Good content.
Thank you! Appreciate the comment and thanks for checking out the video.
Thanks for this!
thanks for detailed video
liked you opinion
Push 3 lost me when I couldn’t bring my whole sample library to the system. Push 3 only allows the 256 ssd that’s native. Once I added my ableton live and library, that native ssd was cooked. I have at least a gig of sounds. Also, It’s not that easy to upgrade the hardware like advertised. 2 bad signs in my book. But it was cool to play on, but it’s underpowered for the price. AND it shuts down and most times restarts if you push it to hard
I was thinking all these same things when looking at it.
I think the battery really is a safe guard to power outs, but everything in the performance would need to be battery operated for this not to effect your set.. including the speakers?? lol
What is interesting is being able to upgrade the CPU... I'm wondering is we will see people start to make their own standalone for it and load the Linux OS with this Ableton program on it and maybe even mod the case to be thicker to add more.. then even a custom battery when at it.
As for the MPE... I'm a massive fan of that and for that reason the price bump of the controller version is fine.
It is good you can upgrade later because I don't see a need for the standalone unless I wanted a hardware setup dedicated to beat making, I would not be playing live (yet).
It would be nicer if Akai could bring out a second edition of the FORCE for this as they got close to a hardware DAW with the FORCE it just doesn't have multi track recording.
After watching this I am decided that I will get the controller and not the standalone, it did help afirm things I was already thinking.
That's awesome, I'm really glad this helped. You make excellent points too.
“Computers were easily upgradable.” Apple silicon has left the chat. 😂
I bought a linnstrument 128 you can program the colors with CC 20-22
But then again I've been programming Max since 3.5. I look at useful machines in a different way.
Currently trying to imagine doing live performance with stock devices only, particularly for electric guitar and bass. The ableton amp sims are useable but... I can't love them. I could get a non-standalone Push3 (for the MPE and fancy pads) and a refurbished M1 and have no limitations.
Funny you mention the amp sims. I lucked into one great sound that sounds great but mostly I'd say they're terrible. I asked Live Support years ago, how did the demo of the amps sound so good and a guy from Ireland on their support team said "mate, they're incredibly fiddly." To their credit, Ableton said that VERY subtle changes on the amp controls are the difference between usable sounds and not usable.
Sorry to go on; you're the first dude I've ever read comment on their amp simulations. For me the cabinet is the worst thing about the simulations. The amps with infinite fiddling can be made to sound okay but the cabinets are terrible. Like I say, I got lucky and lucked into one incredible, very realistic sound, but it was sheer luck. Naturally I've saved that miracle so it can be recalled. (Two of their legacy midi guitar imitations from version 8, are fantastic, by the way.)
Good luck with Push 3 non-standalone. Let us know how it works out.
I just got the Push 3 Controller (still within the return period) as an upgrade from Push 2. The improvements are small and incremental, and it has me thinking about whether buying a Linnstrument 128 would be a better use of my money. I really wish Ableton would have gone with a 12x12 grid, as that would have opened up new chromatic layouts. Also, MIDI editing on the device screen still seems awkward. Let’s just say that there is room for improvement.
The missing MPE capability was what bothered me most with the Push 2. Hence I switched to the Push 3 recently. And I’m glad I went for the Standalone instead of the Controller. It opened up possibilities that I didn’t think of when buying it. E.g. I love using it as a multi-track recorder for a few hardware synths and a small Eurorack case without needing to start up the computer as usual, and being able to simply drag those files via WiFi from the Push into Ableton Live onto the computer later on as needed. It also works brilliant as a sampler and looper, again without the need to start up the computer. Regarding the “on the go” scenario I wouldn’t use it on the bus or train anyway; but I already used it in another room, at my friends home or in my favorite café while on battery … and I really enjoyed it.
In terms of the standalone version I can’t really comment too much on that as I don’t own it. But on face value I would say the Intel platform is not a great choice, you do not get the full Live experience in this box and the 2hr battery life is a joke.
However, in terms of the controller version I think you should get your hands on one and spend some time with it beforehand. Then you will understand this particular version of Push 3 is not a step backwards but a leap forwards.
I owned a Push 2 & regretfully sold it many years ago. I now own the Push 3 controller. Initially I was (& still am) a little disappointed with the screen as I feel they could have improved this. Regardless, as I spend more time with this machine I realise how incredible it is. The build quality is Supremely Excellent & the improvements they made over Push 2 really do help to speed up your workflow.
It’s early days but so far I’m very impressed with this little device.
I strongly suggest you get a Push 3 controller if you can and ignore the standalone.
Potentially it's very good. It's up to ableton to deliver on promises. I have a push two and the only reason to upgrade would be for mpe. If not then wait. There is no major rush. Standalone isn't a step backward. That might have been the firmware it shipped with. It's an i3 processor btw.....the lag isn't due to being a poor process but rather optimization. Having used it now for say 8 hrs? After the first update, its smooth
Good to know the performance is improving. I still feel it's a step backwards because of the limitations (no 3rd party plug-ins, limited upgradability of the internals, battery life) but I understand it still has appeal as a standalone device to many people.
Thank you for the comment and for watching!
I jam with a guitar player and a drummer and I kinda wanted to get a Push 3 because it would mean alot less stuff to haul over to the jam space and I could use it in my studio and just unplug one thing and bring it over. Being able to ditch the laptop, the interface, and just having less cables seems like a huge bonus.
It could definitely lighten the load. How do you jam with them, does everyone plug into Ableton Live? Or are you just playing Ableton instruments alongside the guitar and drummer separately?
Just playing alongside them separately. I'm pretty new to ableton but I like the push. Got any alternative suggestions?
@@rancorprimegames The Push is the most comprehensive controller for Live, and the Push 3 is the only option if you don't want to bring a laptop. The downside is that you can only play Ableton instruments on the standalone, no other 3rd party VST synths or instruments.
The Maschine MK3 could be an option. It has an interface and there are control scripts for Ableton available that give you a lot of control. And you would be able to play any VST instrument. The Arturia MiniLab could work too. Lots of control and pretty portable, but you would potentially need to bring an interface unless you have a cable that plugs into the headphone port.
@@peabodyscientific2082 Yeah the loss of VSTs is huge. I'll probably stick with the laptop for now then. Gonna look into the MK3 tho. thanks for the input and the video! cheers
im not getting the standalone not the way I work - I dont envisage myself leaving the computer at home and I use gigperformer 4, which is essential for my track heavy sets. the fact it's modular and the fact they have said it will be upgradable kind of addresses the future proof doubts.. not quite up to my M1 though, but I have the controller on order as I do a lot of slicing and clip building on the fly and the MPE is something I have already incorporated with the Expressive E touche.
Good review! One of the features that really appealed to me was the CV outputs as I'd really love to use it with my eurorack. That said, for the price theres no way I'm upgrading from my Push 1. Also I'm really glad you showed the prices of the standalone components! It's shocking to me how much theyre charging for those cheap processors / ram / memory! And the fact they say on the website that providing your own hardware would damage the Push seems sus to me...
Thank you! I went through the component prices kind of quickly, I'm glad you caught it. I think it really puts in perspective what you are getting, but also how much future upgradability options we are likely to actually see. Future upgrades is one area where I think there has been a little bit of over excitement given that we don't know what that will actually be.
Hey this is a great video, and honestly so much more than a "push 3" review. I'm 29 yo and making music since 10 or so years. And frankly I never thought of midi controllers and stand alone devices as of something "coming back". Interesting perspective there for younger generations of music makers I think, well at least to me. Cheers!
Thank you, appreciate that!
I put a simple little rubber bumper on my P2 power button. You can get them at your local office supply store. They’re designed to put on the backs of picture frames or on the bottom of items that might scratch furniture. 😊
Me still on the Push 1 and finding out the price of the 3: 🤢🤮💀⚰️🪦
Pick up a Push 2 while you still can!
Super practical & very thoughtful
Thank you! I really appreciate you checking out the video.
Finally someone who sees the drawback of this new standalone craze.
Just get novation controllers 😊
Theyre setting too high of a premium for the standalone version in my opinion. Good to see some content makers speaking on this as well. I simply do not see how the extra upgrade hardware to make it standalone can justify the price set for it. EDIT: That being said, I think the Push 3 tethered version is pretty great although it does not offer as much as I had hoped as an upgrade for people who already own Push 2.
Most of the time it's pointless to upgrade to the next version up, wait at least next version+1 for it to be worthwhile.
I'm an original Push owner and mildly considering the Push 3 standalone, but then also considering getting a steam deck to use Ableton on the go.
Seems a bit inane to complain about it being hard to recommend to non-Ableton users, like obviously. Everything isn't for everyone, and anyone who should get a Push doesn't need to be recommended it because it's obviously the right controller for them. I bought the original Push and didn't bother upgrading to Push 2 as it didn't offer me enough extra. Push 3 is intriguing to me because I've been looking for a mobile device to sequence ideas I've made on my Polyend Tracker.
Appreciate the comment. There were lots of people who didn't use Live that were interested in the Push 2 because it seemed like a cool device to use and because Live is well like by the people that use it. That's at least part of the strategy behind the Push for Ableton: create another way to introduce Live to people that might not be using it but would like a device like the Push.
It's just taking a big chance for the buyer, though.
@@peabodyscientific2082 well I'm not really commenting as such on Ableton's strategy. More from a user perspective, if I was a non-Ableton user I honestly wouldn't care about Push at all given there are so many other options.
I think Push is only special for people already locked in Ableton workflow/headspace.
Obviously I get making a video for youtube you're speaking to more folks outside that group.
Great video. The embargoed reviews level of kissing up put iPhone reviews to shame. Not a fan of Ableton offering a discount to the reviewers.
I’ve had my Push 3 controller since yesterday and I like it. If I had a Push 2, I wouldn’t have upgraded. A lot of Push 2’s are hitting the market and that’s probably the smarter bet. Hoping the upgradability will inspire other mods. An OLED display would really shine on this.
I only found out about the discount to reviewers when Patrik Veltruský mentioned it in his review. I was pretty shocked about that detail and don't think any other reviewer disclosed that offer. That's sort of an issue IMO.
Thank you for watching and for commenting!
why on earth is it so much to ask for the pads to be used for clip editing… or at the very least some kind of ipad ableton control surface app
its a compromise tool ....and fallow a strategic Live logic how to produce music...
In that frame they make a lot of people happy and bring beginner and Pro's a full Studio in a box environment ...and managed it well...
....on the oher side the minimal evolving design and limited additions and evolution and the hard price tag is the sad part for me in that story...
- a controller only Version...(cheaper)
- only 8 encoder not 16 encoders
- no push capable encoder s
- no global snapshot control on the Push 3 device. ....& internal Live option
- no racksnapshot Push 3 buttons
- limited to none own controller layout options setup control & page design,...
internal in Live and for Push 3 ..
- Controller setup control is total outdated
Cubase / Bitwig etc.. are way more fleadged to bring controller setups to lifeqith no needed coding skills..
Very helpful video. My dreams of an Ableton style clip/scene workflow in a single device that I can take out of the studio into the living room (my 2nd favorite place to make music) seemed have been met by the Push 3, but I'm starting to be skeptical about the prospects of standalone devices. Thanks for your perspective!