Can Franz End The Chaos Dwarf Tyranny? Empire vs Chaos Dwarfs - Total War Warhammer 3
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- čas přidán 31. 03. 2023
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#Warhammer #totalwar #Turin - Hry
Man, I am so glad that the Empire has such a good matchup against the Chaos Dwarfs! They seem to be overlooked by most competitive players, so I would love to see them taken more often to rein in some of these crazy new units.
me too
finally glory to the empire with a new favorable matchup
Optimism! I like it.
Finally, Franz can release all his pent up hatred against short people. Stomp everything with a beard and let Grimnir sort them out!
Short?!
Bro that’s funny asf to think about he just smiling at the dwarfs but really he just can’t stand them 😭😂
SHORT?! NO ALLIANCE!
i hear franz hate saurus tho
One or two blunderbusses could have really helped against Franz and both knights.
Also the magema cannons should have imediatly fired on the sunmaker instead of focusing on the infantry.
It's also quite nice to see Karl Franz fight the ChDwarss because he wields Ghal Maraz. At least some one of the dwarfs will be happy.
Somewhere, deep in one of the mountain Holds, a Longbeard turns over in his sleep and grumbles "serves ya right" with a momentary smirk.
Man am I so excited to get my hands on these short powerhouses
short?!!
SHORT?!!!!!!!!!!!
SHORT?!!?!
I’ve been waiting for these guys since the first game when I saw a video from Archwarhammer explaining their lore which I thought was interesting and would be my playstyle.
NO ALLIANCE!
Excellent illustration on how the expensive and highly specialized nature of the Chorf roster can leave gaps in its toolbox that can be exploited. There was nothing in the Chrorf army that could have dealt with Franz.
@LordDogmav He definitely could have, but the question is what to cut for it? I think the challenge in using the Chaos Dwarfs to their best will be in balancing their different expensive tools to try and cover as many bases as possible without leaving too many exploitable weaknesses, like we saw here.
The fact the dwarves didn’t have any of their hard hitting lawnmower units shows me that he WANTED them to lose because even a single skull cracker or demons tongue could have WIPED out some expensive enemy infantry with little effort and instead used mortars that run out of ammo or have no counterplay when they are out of ammo. A LOT more could have been done but the build was gimped from the start.
@@Klaus_KlavierThe skull cracker is generally bad, and would've been easily destroyed by Franz and his wagons. Furthermore, the Chorfs had little trouble destroying the relatively unimportant empire infantry as is.
@@TheAmazingDom well in general something like that would have been better than nothing. Never underestimate any of the chorf trains, had they had just one of them I think this could’ve been swung in their favor easily from knockdown and cycle charging one
@@Klaus_Klavier I disagree. They easily cleared out the empire infantry, and infantry was not what won the empire that game. The lack of answers against Franz pretty much guaranteed it.
I've know that all the other channels can provide info about the Dwarfs, but only Turin shows you how they'll actually play.
and milkandcookies and davh
@@Vahkitauti Meh. They are fine channels, but they are sub-standard battlefield commanders, I go to them for content. Not real tactics I'll be using against other players online. Milk and Cookies would get wiped in a tournament.
@@floatingaround22 you're welcome to your opinion of course, but this is a dumb take lol. I was playing competitive TW since before lots of people here even joined the series. Won multiple competitive tourneys for Shogun 2 and Rome 2. As for Warhammer, I've played hundreds of battles against people like Aerocrastic, Felkon, Turin, eumaies, Loupi, the RTK guys, lots of those games are on my channel. They are definitely better competitive players than I am, and I would definitely not beat a top tier player like Felkon with money on the line, and I'm not claiming to be top tier myself. But when I'm training and investing time into getting better at competitive, I can and have taken games off of extremely good players. So, if the standard is literally the best players in the community, then sure I'm "substandard". But that's a dumb standard. Dahv isn't "substandard" either, he regularly plays against very good players. Also have to question why you feel the need to insult other creators randomly while praising Turin
@@floatingaround22 beware the classic Xbox comback 1v1 one of them, if your so sure there "sub standard" battlefield commanders
@@milkandcookiesTW Triggered much? lmao
I'm praising Turin for the same reason you'd praise Napoleon or US Grant. He's great. You are good.
Braxton Bragg fought lots of battles too, against lots of fine Generals. Doesn't make him great.
It's just incredibly cool! A very beautiful battle. I'm glad that the Empire can still perform well.
Same. My favorite faction. Call em plain, but there still great.
Karl proving his title of deadlift champion yet again with that carry.
I think the single entity goon squad is the way to go against the chaos dwarves. From what I've seen, their artilery just shreds infantry like nothing else, and infantry just doesn't get value against them.
"The matchup has my consent!" - Karl Franz, probably
If there's one unit that shows just how much the Chaos Dwarfs overpower the regular Dwarfs, it's the magma cannon. Not only is it basically the top tier artillery of the Dwarfs but without it's one big weakness (it's short range), but if the Astragoth footage is anything to go by they get it at *TIER TWO*
I mean sure but I've seen chaos dwarfs lose literally every match I've seen them in, including against dwarfs. They might just have their strengths undiscovered so far but they don't seem dominating at all
@@ashleychaplin5855 partly that's because you've only seen CZcamsrs, who want to prove that Chorfs are beatable. But also they may be more balanced by cost in multiplayer but that doesn't really translate to balance in campaign. Just look at their performance, they're clearly superior to the dwarfs in basically every way.
@@kapitankapital6580 their performance is what I'm talking about
@@ashleychaplin5855 Their performance has a unit of bull centaurs beat RoR demigryphs or dragon ogres. Both which cost 500g more. Their ironbreaker variant is clearly superior to the Dawi counterpart. All of their arty is single entity so hard to snipe and although they don't quite have the volume of fire, nearly all of them hit harder than other race counterparts.
@@ruukinen yes, I agree they have individual good elites and the bull centaurs are op, however the ironsworn are massively biased because dwarfs can buy 4 basic miners with blasting charges for the cost of their 1 super special one, and additionally their problem seems to be their superior missiles do well early but their lack of a solid cheap frontline (the current meta) leads to them being swarmed and all those expensive elites not paying for themselves as their range is shut down. I'm not saying they will be weak but two elites fighting isn't exactly game defining, elites are pretty bad to pick across the board ATM with how easy they are to snipe
I gave a feeling a steam tank will be so good against chaos dwarves since the chorfs don't have any long ranged armor piercing arty other than maybe the Iron deamon but the steam tank does beat them in a 1v1 ror and reg and it can reliable snipe the other chorf arty and other empire units can deal with other kinds of chorf armor piercing like handgunners and such
AFAIK Deathshrieker rocket launchers can switch to anti large munitions. Similar to even bolt throwers.
@@benedeknagy8497 the steam tank does do more damage than its anti large muntion tho and it can be dealt with great cannons since those have more range
@@thanetheforsaken8769 Deathshriek demolition rocket does 300 AP missie damage + 500 anti large bonus. Thats 3X the damage of a Steam Tank. Great cannons are a better counter indeed.
"War Wagons got nerfed" seems to be only -5 ammunition, all other stats are identical on the sheet
That is still a substantial nerf.
Great replay! always love seeing empire content, just wish warwagons weren't the only unit you must have in your army :/
Cant wait for the 13th!
"Fear not the tainted midgets Brothers, Franz is here!"
I'd be worried taking any heavy cav, the Great weapon cav for CD can somehow beat every other Cav in the game despite being cheaper
Always good to see Empire/Kislev win
Always happy to see a standard battle
Great game! Peak Empire play with Franz, Demis and the brave state troopers.
Just finished your latest AOE4 stream and now I see this pop up. Guess I’m not sleeping yet :)
Love me some land battle
Franz End The Chaos Dwarf Tyranny for sigma for the empire for Warhammer
Yea but is Boris a Prince AND Emperor?
love a good land battle
As for bull centaurs vs demi knights its unfortunately very one sided for the centaurs. So far from what I've seen they just straight up beat everything large they can get onto.
Even the RoR demigryphs and dragon ogres stood no chance against them.
yeah it's definitely a gourger situation. Probably something to do with animation and unit count.
A land battle? Sigmar blesses us!
Bull centaurs actually win handily against the RoR demigriffons. They are the most overtuned monsterous cav in the game now
Always nice to see the Empire win.
Feels so weird to say this...
War wagons were pretty beastly. Damn.
Thanks so much for the content!
You mention magic attacks circumventing ward safe at the start of the video... I thought ward safe counters any kind of dmg and only physical resistance can be countered by magic attacks?
Physical resist on astrogoth!
@@turinRTS sorry if being clueless.can't Boris have magic attacks with runefang?
@@verminlord78 no rune fang just gives Boris a Heal
Good gravy do the chaos dwarfs look fun
Wait does the sunmaker add fire or are all rockets fire based?
You vs Enticity in a gunpowder battle? So glad I am awake to see this early XD
you really need some bull centaurs, they absolutely wreck large entities when you get the great weapon variant, franz wouldnt have been free to land on the cannons at all
Bull Centaurs would have been good, but the problem is that they are probably too expensive of a unit to just leave home as artillery protectors, and they aren't fast enough to bounce between the front line and stopping Franz's dives. The Empire can do that sort of thing with its Demis sometimes, but that is because the Empire usually doesn't plan on winning the frontline fight anyways, just having it last long enough that they can shoot their enemies to death. If you pay for a BC unit and then just leave it in the back field as you move up, you are basically giving your opponent an almost 20% advantage in the actual front line fight. If he wanted to use BCs, he would almost have needed to change his entire build to a more Blunderbuss/Hobgoblin Archer focused one.
Considering they defeat altdorf gryphites and their artillery can shut down the sunmaker you should force the empire player to come to you rather than attacking and stretching your army thin
@@Nightmare_52 bull centaurs would have been great but almost everyone agrees they are overtuned ATM.
is there is an embargo on ulrika ? would be neat to see her in battle
Until Wednesday I believe.
The guy just standing on flying Lamasu like that is some third grade publisher game polish lmao.
he has a small seat there, guess u didnt notice
Steam tanks any good against the artillery and late game for mopping up?
For Sigmar and the Empire!
The wood elves are gonna eat the chaos dwarfs alive
I have a question, why are Bull Centaurs with great weapons able to annihilate the Royal Altdorf Gryphites? and they also go even against the Summoners of Rage
Power creep, of course.
May need a nerf from what I've heard
I don't know if ot's about power creep here, more like they did not expect them to be so strong, either way we will see of they get nerfed.
They are overturned. Its likely they will be nerfed or get a price increase. CAs typical balance strategy is that units that cost more generally should win.
They’ll need a nerf
Good game and I'm glad to see an Empire win but holy smokes those magma cannons need a nerf. Every game I see with them, they do not miss and wipe out half an infantry's health in one shot. They need a price increase and/or an accuracy nerf because they hit way too hard when they never miss.
How did you get the gore? I haven't seen that the whole time I've played.
Chaos dwarves look really strong once the players figure out the builds and counters. Look out.
They are, but also all of their good units are expensive as fuck.
So far today I have seen 4 Chorfs replays by big casters and the Chorfs absolutely shred value town in the beginning...Only to crumble instantly once they actually have to fight in melee
For 30 years they were slaves, I think they will never become labourers in my head! However I find it very progressive of the Dawi Zarr that they finally elevated their status and even permitted the formation of Unions! But this then begs the question, why are they still wearing their slave colars? 🤔
Nice to see the Chaos Dwarfs can lose.
GIVE US THE HOLY LUMINARK GOODNESS
zoomed out the axe for the chaos dwarfs in the unit card look like they're holding british flags lol
Who needs another roaster increasing the confusion of all the thounds of units,atrributes and skills which are still not applicable on the battlefield!
im positively surprised they seem to have gotten the balancing right and the chaos dwarfs can be implemented without fucking the entire game over for two months
Good to see chaos dwarfs can actually lose
please, more classic online battles like this one
Hashut vs Sigmar.
dude that is not a empire vs chaos dwarfs that is a empire vs greenskins
Hello, does anyone know if Felkon still plays?
i dont think so. heard he hates domination
Karl Franz was MVP of this match.
✌️
GG
Can Chaos Dwarfs End The Franz Tyranny? Hope so!
If anything the chaos dwarfs seems to be kinda weak in mp. At least all the fights I've seen they either lost or took a beating
Probably because people are still learningv what works well for them.
I've seen them win quite a few fights in the livestreams
I don't think they will be weak but I do think they aren't nearly as overpowered as everyone was thinking they were going to be.
I disagree when it comes to the lore of hashut. It has a spell which not only debuffs speed but causes weakness to fire which increases fireglaves damage output.
war wagons💀💀💀💀💀
Everyone talking about how Chorfs are OP is simply ignoring the cost of these units. Sure they have so many cool units to fill so many possible roles but they simply cannot afford to bring them. I think CA did a very good job of balancing through cost for the Chaos Dwarves. Also cost is a super easy thing to tweak in balance patches.
Bull centaur GW's are considerably cheaper than the Royal Altdorf Gryphites and absolutely wreck them. Theyre severely overtuned.
wtf they could not even bother to animate him riding the Lamassu he is just standing on it like a T pose. they did not even put a saddle on it roflmao
Ever fix those wrists or is it still the old excuse?
Chaos dwarf fools
The magma cannon seems kinda overpowered it literally never misses a shot and always hits right down the middle of a formation for crazy damage and after shock damage I think accuracy needs to be nerfed so it can sometimes hit the edge of a unit or narrowly miss it and not just always hit right down the center
You gimped the chaos dwarfs imo on this fight. Had they had a skull cracker or demons tongue I think things could have been VERY different.
You seemed to negate their best tools, the empire was doing with those war wagons what the dwarves should have been doing with a skullcracker or other iron demon
The dwarf infantry is good, but what makes them good is they survive long enough for the big angry war machines they brought to come lawnmower important enemy blobs
i dont think hippos are gonna be good if they bring their bulls gw. They are super over tuned rn they can beat the summoners of rage.
Have the Dawi ever won a tournament arranged by Turin? ... I can´t recall seeing that, don´t think these tainted ones will fare much better.
Grombrindal took the Dwarves to a Grand Final in a WH2 Faction War tournament in 2021. Most tournaments let people play as multiple factions so it's hard to say. But in single-faction tournaments, I don't think the Dwarves have ever won.
HA-SHOOT my guy, i am cringing everytime
All around solid fight though, good stuff and cant wait to see more!
Summon the elector counts
Wagons and sleds are still silly units that break the flow of otherwise cool battles and nothing can change my mind :(
Oh man up, war is war
@@jtowensbyiii6018 its the mechanics for me, they take way too little damage for being open topped and their ability to get away from melee is incredibly frustrating. Just an opinion, no need to belittle people
@@lrh5206 you're belittling many people's favorite units?
@@jtowensbyiii6018 the unit, not the people who enjoy them. Power to everyone's preferences. Agree to disagree, have a good easter friend :)
Nerf empire!! Empire OP $%@%$@ 😜
Not sure but i think 350 naked hobgobbo can be rly good addiction to every army...
As an Empire main I'm concerned with the Chaos Dwarfs because they seem a hard counter to the Empire, you can't outgun them, your infantry are inferior, cavalry can't shut-down their gun infantry and their war machines are unbreakable. Not to mention they have high mobility with skirmish cavalry and actual magic unlike their non-chaotic cousins.
Hellstorm rocket batteries and outriders my friend. As long as you protect them with your heroes
also steam tank and other artillery are actually favored against chorf machines since they have more range and the chorf artillery and war machines and the bull centuars and cav could be countered with a good oll net or any spell
Can Franz End The Chaos Dwarf Tyranny? I mean don't the Chaos Dwarfs need to win first lol.
Lorewise they're tyrannical.
Will the Chaos Dwarfs be a payed dlcs or just a part of an update ? :)
payed DLC
@@militarumtempestusscion222 😪
Are you serious?
This DLC introduces a whole new faction, these have never been free afaik. If you don't want to pay the full price, just wait for a while, there's regular sales on the base game and the DLC.
@@Azhalan ty
antilarge bull centaurs are too jacked. they kill demys regiment of renown and trade even with summoners of rage wgich cost 600 more. prolly need to increase the cost or nerf em/ the immortals kill all the infantry chosen of nurgle included and even regiment of renown bloodletters. crazy
Ca. Val. Ry.
Turin pls.
He had nothing which could deal with Franz ZzzZz typical single entities
So Sneaky Gits are a cheap infantry unit that manages to punch way above its weight because of precursor missiles? Guess we're back to ye olden days of MLG Freemen.
They cost almost 600, and have 40 LD, so can get wrecked fast
@@turinRTS Ah, okay. I was under the impression they cost something like 450. This seems a lot less obnoxious
we have strayed so far from military strategy that no real-world concept can be applied at all in Total War games anymore. Were there frontlines? outflanking enemies? deploying reserves? Feels like you have to be busy clicking, but thats about it
??????
@@edwardfontaine7108 read it again slowly, that might help you understand my comment. Good luck!
Did we not watch the same video? Or did I not see a unit of Empire knights overextend and be outflanked by a unit of Goblin Wolf Raiders? You claim there are no tactics; despite there being strategy from the beginning: from building and fine tuning your army to actually deploying and utilizing it on the battlefield. Sure some of those tactics are a bit different, due to the game having a fantasy setting, but there absolutely is strategy and tactics in this game. You lament the lack of strategy and tactics when that is demonstrably untrue? What actually is your point?
@@edwardfontaine7108 so a single unit was outflanked by a single unit, and that proves that there are frontlines, reserves, and other tactical considerations? Look at the map lol, its a tiny flat square.
What strategy was employed here? Did the winner use the terrain to win? Was there deception? Was fatigue an issue? Was there a frontline?
@@AlexTSilver Pelting your enemy is a strategy. one that was used quite extensively by Napoleon, a well renown general if I recall correctly. If I also recall, those Goblin wolf raiders were hidden in trees which is an example of deception I would think. The reality is you have no argument because, unlike you, I can actually provide examples. All you have done is fail to explain why those examples are not a demonstration of tactics and strategy.
Man there is nothing like good ol' fashioned power/feature creep with new factions to show how terribly mundane and flavorless older factions are.
Like the Sorcerous Miasma, why is that not on Anvils on Doom mounts for regular Dawi?
Because when Dwarfs were added their magic resist worked on magic weapons so turning magic weapons nonmagical would make them MORE dangerous. Do Dwarfs even have much with Physres?
They aren't powercreeped at all. Infact they seem to lose most matches
A race pack that cost half the price of the main game - being run over/beat by every other race in trilogy, Good job CA
I don't expect chaos dwarfs to be OP but man, 90% of those battles on YT chaos dwarf are losing them hard.
That’s a player issue not the race itself.
@@RatchildUK I hope so but well see
Don't forget that players have years of training with the older race and less than a week with the chaos Dwarf.
Give it some time and I'm sure the Chaos Dwarf will be a top factions in tournament.