Mk262 Cloning - pt 5 - Varget
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- čas přidán 25. 08. 2024
- The quest continues to duplicate the Black Hills 77gr OTM factory ammunition, also known as Mk 262 Mod 1. Today's test powder is Hodgdon Varget.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with CZcams content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
shoots a 0.417" at 100, "man that was almost a good one"... lol
Awesome man. Your The best reloading teacher on CZcams. Honest. Thanks for all u do.
Just tried this out on a 20 in WOA rifle length gas sdm upper 2792 with 24.5. No point of impact shift from black hills to reloads. Lake city brass. Amazing thank you for yiur work. I hope CZcams doesn't try to close this channel with their new regulations.
Can't get enough of this series! Looking forward to the 8208XBR results. Keep up the great work.
What is your oal
You'll really like the 7 1/2 primers. They're basically magnums and very consistent!
Outstanding and thank you for this series and your rigor in this series. I have learned a lot about load development and shoot NRA and CMP high power with my WOA A4 NM upper. This helps a lot. Thx! Fletchman
Very very good shooting JRB. The groups and velocity is about what I was expecting with Varget. Overall looks like some great loads, but not a good candidate for Mk262 cloning.
Looking forward to ARComp, 8208 and Tac. Looking around the internet many people have successfully cloned the Mk262 with 8208 and Tac, but as you know this round is VERY hot from BlackHills and your gonna have to load Hot and above published Max while checking for pressure signs as you keep moving up above maximum for most all powders you test with in this series. This is a great series and a round that most people shooting AR’s love. When this series is finished your data will be the go to on this topic. Awesome stuff JRB.
Thanks again JRB for another great Video. Thumbs up.
I love this series! I love the video format: load, shoot. Why is this so dang interesting? I LOVE IT. Keep up the solid work.
I understand the point of the series and I think I've watched every video you've made on it three times now. lol. But you can't argue with those groups. I've loaded a ton of Varget and as they say when you hear the crunch that just means it's working, it loves to be compressed. I settled on 22.6 of AR Comp and the 77 grain Sierra Tipped Match King and currently loading five hundred of them in Nickel cases. I don't shoot ( Long ) range per say and hedge ball accurate at two hundred and fifty yards is good enough for me. The Tip adds length and must be seated deeper for magazine length so 22.6 is still compressed slightly. Shoots to my standard POI and that is an advantage also. I don't own a chronograph so I have no idea of the speed I'm getting, but I'll sure take accuracy over speed anytime. You certainly found a winner in that department with Varget.
Just an awesome reloading channel! Keep up the great work. I have watched and learned a lot from them.
Hodgdon 4350 showed the least deviation over a wide difference in temperature when compared to other powders. It's worth a consideration.
Subscribed. Can’t wait to see the magic combination that rules all.
I think you're Shooting has improved as well man all these killer groups lately has been awesome, I'm messing around with the 75s I have looking at other powders and charges as well I will be putting up some videos next week checking them out
Enjoy the Videos! That white oak barrel is AWESOME!
Great testing! I'm glad you're sharing this information. Since you asked for ideas, would you consider doing the proverbial ladder test? Perhaps at two hundred yards. Also a test with the silencer and a test with out the silencer shot from the same barrel. Keep up the good work!
Lyman 49th has the max Varget load for this bullet as 25.0 grains, and states it's a compressed charge and pressure is 44,500 CUP. I still don't think you'll achieve the velocity you're seeking, but if you just wanted "written load data" as an excuse to continue, there it is...
Also, TAC gives me much faster results than your software predicts. I never tried to clone this ammo, but I see a lot of people using TAC to clone due to the great velocities.
Lyman has always been a bit higher than other data books, from my experience.
Good luck brother on your scouting trip hope you fill that tag soon
love the vids as someone who is just starting to reload these save me a lot of headache and pain.
thanks and when I get paid I'll drop a fiver as I want this load for my ar
I use varget for my loads and with a 77smk at 25.0grs of powder I am getting .5moa accuracy at 2700fps. With 25.2 the groups opens up just a touch but my velocity is about 2725
Over pressured brass?
Great groups! Regarding the velocities I saw similar results when shooting Varget with 75 gr. Hornady HPBT. Where velocities actually stayed the same or slightly lower when increasing charge levels. Definitely strange! I have just started trying Varget with a few different cartridges so I really don't know what to expect, but so many people talk so highly of it I wanted to give it a try.
My "go to" competition ammo for highpower shooting is 25 grains of Reloader 15 or Varget under a 77 grain Nosler CC. Shoots 2700 feet per second in my RRA national match rifle. Winchester and CCI BR primers.
Whats the barrel length?
fuser662 20" 1/8 twist heavy barrel
I did a ladder test with 75 gr hpbt hornady match and varget and had a flat spot at 24.2 and 24.4 and I also had a lower velocity at 23.6 grains then I did at 23.4 grains. That's pretty interesting! I shoot an 18" Odin works DMR barrel so the results seem very similar!
I use velocity plateaus when loading for my match 308 and 6.5 guns. using that data alone has produced very accurate loads for me.
I'm surprised that you haven't included Reloder 15 in your 223 loads. It's my go to powder with heavier bullets in my AR. It fills the case well and works great with my 60 grain Vmax. It goes 3200 with good accuracy. I haven't tried 2520 yet but I certainly will. I have good results with slow powders. I use the Rem 7 1/2 to light them and they've given me no reason to experiment with other primers. Good work. You're one of the few that actually knows his shit😉
Johnny... I plan on pushing Varget higher. I have followed this series closely (great content BTW). I have had very similar results with my own attempt at 262 clone with Varget so I will send you pictures and data of my results. I was using CCI 400 primers though and my 77SMKs don't have the canuler but I will try going into the mid 25 grain charges....my goal out of my 18inch is to get as close to 2750 as I can.
Any results?
Any update on your quest?
Good work brother
I have the same RCBS hand priming tool, best one I've ever had. Reloading becomes addicting, I;ll be reloading then decide I'll quit after the next cartridge and then I wind up finishing off 100 of them. I find my primer pocket swager invaluable with reloading military cases.
Im the same way, going thru a pile of range pick up brass almost feels like torture but then the "one more" mindset kicks in then im finished. I've heard mixed reviews about the primer pocket swager. Is it just as good at the primer crimp remover or better? Been thinking abiut getting one because it would save me alot of time on the RCBS case prep center.
@@jacksonthompson7099 it's worth getting a swager. Only have to do it to the mil brass once.
@@HypocriticYT Ok cool, i had bought some swaged 30-06 LC 67 brass on GB and the primer pockets were clean as a whistle. My local reloading store I frequent has one in stock so ig i've got a early christmas present for myself. Will come in handy in the future.
@@jacksonthompson7099 I clean cases with those small stainless steel pins with a few drops of laundry soap and fill with water. Cleans inside and out like new and you don't have to replace it like other media. A magnet picks up any dropped pins.
I'd love to see you push varget a little higher and even give H355 a shot. Just for the fact it's gold with the 55gr loads. I'd like to see how it actually does with the 77gr. Might be interesting.
My accuracy load for my AR is with 77gr Nosler and 24.5gr Varget. It’s a little slow compared to the black hills but man does it shoot
loaded up some 77gr tipped Match Kings with 23.3 grains of Varget and overall length of 2.246 and the Remington 7 1/2 primer and Norma brass. 10 shot group average velocity was 2648. groups were in the .75 inch range at 100. the results are still not what we are looking for but the 100fps extra velocity over your results is interesting. I assume it's the difference in the SMK vs the TSMK length. No pressure signs.
Hey Johnnie -Greetings from Idaho - If you ever get some ADI 223 brass hang on to it, as it is excellent. Picked some up from my local range, wish I had more!
Best 5.56 round ever
Definitely the best I've ever loaded! I can't wait to see if they shoot great out of my Colt LE6920 also. I will probably do that pretty soon. I'm interested to see what the 16" barrel velocity is with the AA2520 load.
I would be curious what it would do out of an SBR.....10.5”.
I guess you can safely say that the Noslers will shoot now. I am interested to see if you put a CCI 41 in your highest varget load what the statistics would do. Maybe at least 10 shot samples for the primer test? I have been a little surprised that your SD's are running as high as they are, at least with varget anyway. Like you say with varget full case = low SD. How crunchy were the top loads?
LC brass, rem 71/2 primers, 25.2 grains RL15, 77 gr SMK cannelured 2,720
JB how the brass life? And pressure signs for you? Thank you
JRB from where iam sitting the best group was with the Sierra and 23.6 Gr's of Varget, because the velocity was higher and the SD was lower. Still over all you had tightest groups with the Sierra and Accurate 2520
I have never had good luck with REM 7.5's in the velocity spread department.
That 18” WOA barrel is sloooooow. I’m running a stainless 20” proof barrel at 24.3gr Varget with 77 SMKs around 2750fps
FYI Ramshot TAC publishes 5.56 pressure loads for the 77 gr
I use a 12” drop tube and fit around 25-25.2. Quite compressed of course, could probably fit more using some sort of vibratory method to settle the powder even more. Just a thought
Thinking maybe R15 is your ticket. Just saying. Been using it for years with Nosler 77's with awesome results
I have the 18" White Oak SPR also. It's been a few months but I worked up a load using Berger 77 OTM, LC brass, CCI BR4, and 24.5 gn TAC. This load gives me 2715 ft/s and an SD of 11. I think Ramshot shows a max of 24.8. Definitely have to work up. Might try AR small rifle match primers too.
Lyman Load Manual 49th Edition has 77 grain SMK at .223 Rem pressure, max load 25.0 grains at 2.260" oal
Johnny, I have a custom bolt action tack driver that shoots an 80 grain Sierra HPBT into the end of a pop can (less than 2") at 500 meters using 24.5 grains of VV N140. I know you can't use this bullet but I'm sure you'd get good results with this powder.
Is this 223 or 556 being fired from a 223 wydle or 5.56 chamber. Ive been wanting to go a box listed maxs as i have a crap tone of 223 starline brass and a 223 wylde chamber. I heard you can push 223 harder than the listed max if its in the said chambers
Tac will give you the best velocity with 77's imo. I run the 75's with 24grains tac and get @2730
It's always the fifth shot in the group that's gets me. Anyone can put 4 in one hole but 5 is rough. Lol
I worked the ladder up with this load to 25.0 grains in my 18inch. Sent the results to Johnny on Instagram as well. Hopefully it provides useful information.
@Johnny's reloading bench
Are you using cannelured bullets?
ever loaded any 85.5gr Berger
+Johnny’sreloadingbench do you have any work up videos with 69gr SMK and possibly with varget?
Looking forward to 8208xbr as well. Worked up some simple loads with this and the tiped 77gr matchkings and was very happy with results. Wanna see what you are able to do with it and what it's full potential can be!
I stopped using varget for heavier grain bullets (75-77gr). Good groups BUT since it's such a compressed load the seating die leaves a nasty ogive on the bullet that drives me nuts
Also, Enforcer ( same maker as Tac) instead of Tac is a good choice for many of curious applications, just my opinion.
What about Reloder 15?
Great Shooting!
Good stuff.
2520 is an excellent overall powder with a mag primer at the right temperature hot (not desert hot) conditions; however, The burn rate and 2520 are very close? If you're going mag primers, when will you day view superformace and rutumbo, especially in 6our 300 mag and other shooters you have. Rutumbo is used in 6.5 and 6.8 and cartridges that size or larger? Just curious.....
I can't get any velocity out of Varget. IMO it sucks for both 556 and 308. No idea why it's so popular.
H4895 is my favorite
George Robartes the auto correct is a pain in the butt , people think your dyslexic which I am anyway lol
I loved IMR SR-4759 and SR-4756, told everyone who would listen. Seems someone listened. They pulled it off the market. I and two others are STILLED pissed.
Stock up more than you can shoot in your life time !
I look through my local online classifieds for deals on components and I often see a generic white label with black writing called 5010. Maybe that's the military grade 556 powder
Remington 7.5 magnum primers. Ears are probably what they ate using
I just built a SPR with a 18” LaRue 1/8 twist Stealth barrel. I’m not happy with 69gr SMK’s but 77gr’s showed some promising results. I just ordered 500 so I can start the load development. I have Varget, TAC and RL15. I’ve been doing the MOA all day challenge (5 shot groups, 5 targets), I can do it but barely. What powder gave you the absolute best groups using the 77 SMK’s?
I would think the 748 winchester powder would be a good one for what you are trying to do with these rounds
Have you noticed any change in groups with and without the chrono hanging on the muzzle? It seems like it would change barrel harmonics a bit.
Johnny I have to ask why you use those round Target stickers, I ask because using a target with a sharp right angle like a square and aiming at the corners gives a more refined aiming point and will help bring your groups down on the bad days or when your eyes are more fatigued just a little FYI but keep up the videos they are very informative and have helped me a lot with making powder choice for a given caliber.
Big Rig Bass Fishing he has the horizontal and vertical grid lines also so he lines his crosshairs on those I'm sure. I agree with you otherwise 100%
You should get a box of Remington magnum primers and see how they compare.
Johnny, I am an avid follower of your testing and always look forward to your results and testing analysis to see how they compare to my own testing and conclusions. Happy to report that they are very much in agreement. I am always looking forward to what you fellows whom I respect boil it down to as far as most important things to concentrate on at ranges of 100 to 300 yards since the great majority of fellow shooters and reloaders that I know evaluate their reloads at 100 yards and seldom over 300 yards. Always looking for what experienced shooters deem most important factors to control especially at the 100 yard range. What would you rank the top 5 variables to be and then maybe some of the least important? I have some kinda strong inclinations - what are yours?
Best regards, John
The Nosler bullets seemed to start working for you when you switched to the new box with cannelure? Maybe they are built to Military spec and not Nosler spec lol.
were you completely out of case capacity? Seems like a lot of people are loading to around 25.0 or even 25.2 but maybe that's not with lake city brass?
For 77gr use N-140 or RL-15 for best accuracy
iv never seen you test accurate 2015. give it a shot sometime.
is it a problem to load .223 brass to 5.56 pressure or is that not even a thing? brass is brass for the most part?
What was the temp you shot this at and what is the capacity of a fired case? I'll run through quick load and do some verification on pressure for you.
I can also give you a much closer idea of where the node is and what fps it will end up at.
Don't waste your time. I'm not really concerned about Varget for this application. Moving on to better options. Thanks!
Johnny's Reloading Bench my preliminary numbers showed it is probably around 25.2-25.4 to get you there and you are still under max pressure. Just would be a pain to get all that powder in the case.
8208 is 23.8
CCI 41
77 MK 2750 fps in 18”
ADI load for MK262
Best accuracy at 23.3
I want to try this in my 20inch faxon barrel
I believe Black Hills uses Winchester pretty much exclusively...?
I just started reloading 223. The 1st ptimer I bought was Remington 6 1/2. 's later I found a sign at a sporting goods store to not use Remington 6 1/2 primers. I shot some didn't see any problems. What say you?
What kind of scale is under powder trickler ?
I’ve always used primer condition as my initial pressure indicator and pretty much disregarded ejector plunger marks. Am I wrong??
Primers for headspace, ejection marks for pressure. And it should be raised not depression. Depression can mean hitting it hard or stuck ejector (which can mean to fast of a bold needing more buffer spring) You will also find larger diameter on the case in front of the head ( the web some call it) vs. other loads.
try alliant pp 2000mr 24.9 - 25.4 with nosler 77 gr custom comp does well for me. in my 18''
I picked some up a little while back and it is definitely on the list. I forgot to mention it! It looks perfect for the job.
Man the first group's in the .4 's are awesome, even if they are not speed demon's! I bet anyone shot with one cant tell you how fast it was going???...
hey I want to make a ar in something for mid to long range.. thinking 6.5 grendal or 224 val what do you think? it could b a deer gun in the 6.5 but the 224 not so much but would b fun to shoot at distance and have some chalange.. :)
Tj Armand 6.5
I use them exclusively on all small cartridges. My 6pPC loves them and My 6 BR loves them so why change.
Wsr is what they use
Crank it up to 25.5 grains!
Why so much concern about your velocity? it's not like it really matters your not shooting long distance your groups are awesome life is good.lol
8208 XBR
u should of loaded 5.56 with tac u can get it up to 2900 fps
I was taught that if you are using a 20 grain case, you go up in .2 grain increments (10%), otherwise you might jump over the best load.
23.5 gr.Benchmark 77 smk...... 2800 out of 20"
Instead of trying to duplicate the 262 load, you should be looking to make one better and cheaper. My load seems to shot better than 262.
That is nice, but you are far off the mark for Mk262 velocities . You are running SAAMI chamber pressures as best I can estimate. Nothing wrong with that, nice groups, nice brass preservation, but not NATO. You can find the Mk262 velocities by looking at your Black Hills factory ammo data.Loose primers in refurbished 1X LC NATO brass usually follows PPU and crimp ring removal. Just brush out the PP bottom, bump back the burr on the crimp ring just a smidge, and you are good to go.
BH MK262 Mod 1....2750 fps from 20 inch barrel.
You need to actually watch the series. This is video #5. Everything you're talking about has been covered ad nauseam.
Sorry, no problem. You sneaked up on me by concluding a MK262 Clone series with SAAMI velocities.
748
WOW!!!!!
Curious velocity results. I use 24.3gr of Varget for my Mk262 loads. I get consistent 2820+ fps from a 20" mil-spec barrel. I should buy a batch of the Blackhills. I thought my load was equivalent using a 20" barrel, but now I think I'm under Mk262 velocity!
24.0 grains of TAC with 77 grain NOS CCs 2750 from my 18" Mk12 Mod1. 24.0 grains of Varget give me 2640
Superb Accuracy. I can't give advice on the standard deviation, However, I am very impressed with the results that the Nosler bullets gave. Btw. IMR-4895 is Hotter than Hogsdons 4895. The IMR stands for "Improved Military Rifle". Not that you are some sort of Dumbass, However, I felt that it was worth saying.. That's all. Keep up the good work, Dave.
I'd say do IMR over H as well
IMR 3031
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