The Dirty Politics Behind U.S. Navy Ship Names
Vložit
- čas přidán 30. 05. 2023
- Ward reviews the recent Congressional Research Report on how the U.S. Navy names ships and the politics involved.
Subscribe to THE MOOCH REPORT (this channel's free weekly behind-the-scenes update) here: eepurl.com/hDfbsj
Support this channel by using the SUPER THANKS (heart icon above) or by becoming a Patron at / wardcarroll
Buy one or all three of the books in the PUNK'S TRILOGY, Ward's popular first three novels about life a Tomcat squadron, at www.usni.org/punks-trilogy-re.... Use the PUNKYT discount code at checkout for 25% off to CZcams channel subscribers.
Also available in KINDLE format here: www.amazon.com/dp/B09R1MX8SY
And as an audiobook here:
PUNK'S WAR: www.audible.com/pd/Punks-War-...
PUNK'S WING: www.amazon.com/Punks-Wing-Pun...
PUNK'S FIGHT: www.amazon.com/Punks-Fight-Pu...
Get official channel gear at my-store-b7f9c9.creator-sprin... - Zábava
No ship should be named after politicians , name them after naval heroes
Kennedy was both
@@jasnterry1313 so was Bush
There was a bruhaha when the USS Carl Vinson was named when Rep. Vinson was still alive. That was the first time a ship was named for a living person.
However, that had changed by the time the ship was commissioned....
A lot of those politicians are former sailors
I wouldn't have an issue with some long dead politicians that did a lot for this country. Sam Rayburn comes to mind. There was a ballistic missile sub named after him.
The naming of a ship should bring honor, respect, and gravitas to the SHIP, rather than merely increasing the status of the PERSON it's named after.
Best Comment.
LOL the Navy has a ship named after a famous pedophile
Well said.
100%
How does naming a ship after a state bring honor, respect, and gravitas to a ship any more than a person would?
I like the old school names for Carriers. Lexington, Yorktown, ect. Seems more patriotic than naming them after dead guys.
Let’s name a carrier Medina Ridge
I just got back from Gettysburg and I was wondering about the wisdom of naming ships after Civil War battlefields. How do you feel about the USS Antietam? The Appomattox?
My Uncle was on the Coral Sea , Carrier, always thought that was a cool name
As long as we have an Enterprise that’s all that matters
@@asherwiggin6456 Army battle, might work for the Army's next main battle tank or IFV.
We oughta go with the old British naming convention of giving ships the most intimidating names possible, things like the HMS Indomitable, Warspite, Invincible, Iron Duke, Conqueror, and of course Dreadnought. More fun that way.
You forget the, Indefatigable!
I actually agree, the USS Megaton sounds kind of cool
And HMS Victory and HMS Pinafore. On second thoughts scratch the last one 😄
You could also go utilitarian, like the Germans in WW2 with their submarines and, after a point, their destroyers. U-96, U-97, etc. or Z20, Z21, Z22. Makes it that much more humiliating, if you are asked who defeated you and you just spout a generic letter and number combination.
@@Schnittertm1 Could also do the soviet thing and name most of the fleet Komsomol of some sort.
I have very strong thoughts about the USN naming convention. As a Cold War sailor & life long supporter of the Proud Naval Heritage our nation celebrates, we should pause over naming capitol ships for politicians and living Americans. Over the years I’ve become more and more desponded with the ad hoc and politicize naming structure currently in place. I would support a return to traditional Carrier names for the remainder of the Ford Class CVNs, Lexington, Yorktown, Coral Sea, Midway, Ranger and Saratoga should all return to the active fleet.
My thoughts on the pause in the naming convention should be a window of 25 to 50 years after the person passes away, so that historians can properly assess and review that persons contributions to history and to the Navy for relevance and worthiness to bear their name. Also the window of a quarter to half century will eliminate the current political whims from suggesting a name that hasn’t met a criteria for worthiness yet.
My grandfather was on the Coral Sea, it was sold and scraped in '93
Well said!
Well, at least the convention goes with our move from a Republic form of government to Ad Hoc.
We need to keep the names of the carriers that shouldered the burden in the first years of WWII on aircraft carriers. Lexington, Enterprise, Yorktown, Hornet, Wasp, & Saratoga.
I see there is now no ship in the US Navy named after Commander Ernest E. Evans, USN, who posthumously received the Medal of Honor. Why is that? I’ve read James Hornfischer’s “Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors” and it’s difficult for me to imagine a more deserving hero to name a ship after.
Agreed.
Commander Evans was the baddest Tin Can Sailor to ever sail the raging main!
His remarks at the USS JOHNSTON Christening are legendary! "this is going to be a fighting ship. I intend to go in harm's way, and anyone who doesn't want to go along had better get off right now"
DE 1023 USS EVANS was named in honor of "The Big Chief" as his crew called him.
There was a USS Evans, a Dealey Class DE, back in the mid1950's.
I couldn’t agree more!!
@@luciusvorenus9445 A new Arliegh Burke should be named in his honor. That was one ballsy skipper. Now USS Johnston has been found, showing how badly shot up that ship was, and he still kept fighting his ship, even while badly wounded. A fierce warrior and protector of the ships he was fighting until the very end.
I think you did a really good job presenting both sides. My wife and I are both minorities serving in the military; we both hate the idea of renaming things. History happened as it did, all we can do is be better going forward. Also, bring back old school WW2 carrier names. You can bet ill be putting in for assignment on Enterprise (as will probably every other sailor) , but it would be so much sweeter if it was along Hornet, Yorktown , Lexington and Saratoga. Our Navy is slowly losing touch with it's history and what makes us proud to be US Sailors.
well stated.
That's certainly how I felt the last several years I was in the Navy, I grew up on stories like that of Enterprise CV6, Iron Bottom Sounds and the crossing of the T at the battle of Surago Straights when the Pearl Harbour veteran battleships got their revenge. None of that pride and fight spirit seems to remain.
The military as a whole is losing touch with its history. As for the poorly named ships and bases - if history is offensive, all the better. You're less likely to repeat it that way.
Well expressed my friend....ship names like Enterprise, Ranger, Saratoga, Constellation, Saratoga are timeless....I'd sailed on Enterprise as both a Sailor and as a Tech Rep. During my time as a Tech Rep while on Enterprise, some of the younger Sailors found out and asked me questions 'about the old days' They wanted to know if they "measured up' and worthy of the ship's name and heritage And in truth, I thought they were superior to us in a lot of ways...definitely smarter and better educated, whereas my day..we mght have had just a little bit more fun than they did.
Like getting rid of traditions.
I like the old way of doing it.
Names of heros/ people for distroyers
Names of battles for carriers
Names of citys for cruisers
Names of fish for subs
Names of states for battle ships.
That's what I was going to write.
I'd like to see the next few carriers named Saratoga, Lexington, Hornet, Yorktown, Ranger. I'd think those names would be more inspiring for the sailors who serve on them.
Don't forget Enterprise.
Wasp
TY: No way, they are entwined in our history. I being a vet from the USS Shangri-La CVA CVS 38 feel it would dishonor my ship's history just like the 5 you have mentioned. Time has passed and history needs to move on with new honors for new ships and the sailors who shall serve on them. Let them make their own history and leave the past in history books.
Intrepid.
@@opusmax1 Let's not forget the real classics: Charger, Challenger, Dart 🙃
I was a plank owner on SSN 705. Christened as USS Corpus Christi, commissioned as USS City of Corpus Christi, just like you said. Our CO first found out about the name change via the local newspaper several days after the fact. President Reagan relented on the name after the Vatican came out against it. What we didn't know at the time was that he had made his famous pact with Pope John Paul II on doing in the Soviet Union. Don't know factually if that entered into the decision but seems pretty coincedent. Just to reiterate what Admiral Rickover said when submarines started being named for politicians rather than fish; "Fish can't vote." Thanks for including our story in your excellent video!
yep
I don't usually like caving to protesters (aka whiners), but I was in the Navy at the time and thought they had a reasonable argument. You gotta admit "Body of Christ" for a nuclear attack submarine is a bit much. I dunno what they were thinking. Maybe the fellows who named the boat didn't speak Spanish.
At the time, TX Senator John Tower was chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee. He was a strong believer in the nuclear navy and there were going to be 4 nuke ships with Texas names. The cruiser Texas, SSNs Dallas, CoCC, and Houston, sometimes called the Texas nuclear navy.. There had already been a delay in naming the 705, so there was a search for a sponsor and namesake city. Corpus Christi, TX gladly volunteered, having a prominent Naval Air Station with strong personal ties to Senator Tower, who was a BMCS in the Reserves. His wife, Lila Tower was willing to be our sponsor. And so it was decreed, innocently enough. No one had ever heard of any opposition to the name of the town. The opposition became evident at the launching/christening when a a couple ultra-left nuns and an ultra-left priest threw goat blood on the sidewalk at the shipyard entrance. But, they usually pulled a similar stunt at each launching, so no big deal. After a while, some Protestant clergy started opposing it, but again, some of them were "usual suspects". However, after several months, the Vatican officially opposed it, and like I said above, the Pope, The President, and the Prime Minister had banded together to defeat the Soviet Union and end the Cold War. And they were successful at that. Meanwhile, we were christened as Corpus Christi and commissioned as City of, and the Towers were really pissed. They refused to accept the new name. All of the gifts they gave to the ship at commissioning were given to USS Corpus Christi. In March 1983, the CNO sent us and Houston to our cities for a week-long party. The ships were opened for public tours, first time for nuclear submarines. On my duty day, a little over 3000 people went through. No one in the crew that I ever knew gave a flip about the name change and neither did the city. It was a very excellent boat and crew to be on, and a highly memorable part of our lives. BTW, when we in Texas, the CNO, COMSUBLANT, and the Towers came for the official commemoration of the event. The CNO promoted the Senator to Master Chief, so that was another reason to celebrate (not that we were lacking for any excuses).
@@jeffzaun1841 I mean, it is hard to argue that naming a ship after famously peaceful person is a blunder
It’s unfortunate that some of these names were caught up in politicization because people like Doris Miller and Smalls absolutely deserve ships named after them.
Miller had a DE named after him, an appropriate ship for a Navy Cross.
One of the things that makes people mad over Doris Miller is that he's not the only one who did what he did, a couple of other people did as well and they got destroyers, he got a carrier. Why?
Having said that... I want to go back to battles. I want to see USS Lexington again. Hell, I want some new ones! I want to see USS Alamo and USS Aachen!
@@jjhead431 He should have been treated like a similarly treated white sailor and not seen further combat. He may have survived the war. PS, I think a carrier was named after him to get funding. Carriers are the battleships of WW2. The Yamato and Bismark are good examples of advanced technology beating what were thought were the most advanced weapons. Missles are the new torpedo planes.
Simple…pandering to the DEI voters…USS Miller was appropriate.
That’s a false assertion…MANY sailors and Marines served in further combat…
The US Navy: “There is no harm in renaming warships.”
USS St. Lo: “You sure about that?”
I always heard and thought that renaming a ship after it had been commissioned and had served under that name was bad luck.
@@jamesa.7604 I don't think government decisions should really be made based on superstition
@@Dylang01 shouldn't be made based off political correctness either. Just let the service life of the ship run out and then name the replacement something else.
You mean the original U.S.S. Midway?
@@Dylang01 Superstition is an integral part of the Navy's psyche.
Isn't renaming an active ship considered bad luck? You would think someone in the navy would have brought that up...Asking for a friend.
FWIW, Ward Carroll mentioned this is his video titled *"The Real Truth About the Russian Carrier Kuznetsov."* That's a ship which had a lot bad luck and the name of the ship had been changed multiple times.
The Soviets seemed to rename their ships after every major refit. Their weren’t plagued by bad….. oh never mind.
Well, amongst the higher ups, our Navy is no longer a tool with which to fight and win wars, so they're not really concerned with "bad luck".
It is bad luck. But, fin you get a virgin (girl) to urinate in the bilge, you can do it without bad luck. Old Viking tradition.
@@normanbraslow7902 - I doubt the US Navy would consider an old Viking tradition. Maybe an old Zulu tradition?
Speaking as a Brit I think that as long as the US has a convention of naming ships after people you’re going to have a problem with politicisation. In the Royal Navy ship names are typically decided by a board of admirals with the minister of defence only having a veto rather than it all being in their hands. The only time the RN names ships after people is when it’s normally named for a former monarch or a dukedom. Furthest we went were naming a class after famous admirals. Makes things much easier and we end up with cool names like Vengeance, warspite, Dreadnought etc.
RN have named ships after living monarchs KE VII and the first KG V were both launched while the king was alive. plus 4 HMS Victoria's in the 1800's. HMS Churchill was named after Winston.
@Richard Vernon I believe that the WW2 King George V was originally to have been named King George VI; but when the Admiralty approached the King for permission, he turned them down and asked that the ship be named after his father instead.
To the names of living monarchs you could maybe add Empress of India (1893, one of Queen Victoria's titles) and Emperor of India (1913, George V).
For the very first time, the Royal Canadian Navy is naming a class of 6 ships after people. They are the new icebreaking Arctic Patrol ships and they are named for five men and one woman Canadian Navy heroes including a Black Nova Scotian who won the Victoria Cross during the Battle of Lucknow in the 18th Century. That would never have happened earlier.
@@JM-kr1tj "To the names of living monarchs you could maybe add Empress of India (1893, one of Queen Victoria's titles) and Emperor of India (1913, George V)."
... Queen Elizabeth 2017
I’m against the Smalls renaming, only because Robert Smalls deserves a new ship that will have a long and fruitful service life ahead of it, rather than a hurriedly renamed ship about to be retired.
Yup
Agreed
I would rather it have been named after something like Appomattox than a person. But it’s better than being named after a confederate victory.
@@timber_wulf5775 A Confederate victory that crippled the ANV and helped set up its defeat at Gettysburg. Bunker Hill was a British victory
Yeah. Should have given Smalls a new DDG
During WWII, they had so many ships that they named them for obscure places. The USS Liscome Bay, that was the escort carrier that was torpedoed with all hands lost (including Doris Miller) was named for a bay in Dall Island in SE Alaska. The island today is listed as having 20 inhabitants. If you look at a map of the island, you will not find where Liscome Bay is on the island, yet it had a ship named for it.
Roger Dearnaley ....Also, my late father was on one of the Escort carriers, the USS Lunga Point, named after a point on the island of Guadalcanal and the site of a naval battle.
Many of the CVEs were named after bays.
USS Liscome Bay had 272 survivours of the sinking
The Coast Guard currently has a class of Bay-class 140' ice-breaking tugs.
@@shrek_428 You are right, my mistake
Politicians just can't resist their overwhelming urge to be as obnoxiously frivolous as possible. They insist upon convention and rules; then do whatever they choose in complete disregard of convention and rules.
If you're going to name a ship after RBG, you'd better name one for Louis Brandeis first. Good for Rickover .. if anyone deserved a sub named for them, it's him. He pushed the carrier navy to the side burner... he was smart and got things done but he didn't suffer fools gladly, which is poison in the Navy.
A ship named after RBG would truly be the shame of the fleet.
I want to see aircraft carriers named the way they used to be. Enterprise, Yorktown, Saratoga, Hornet and so on!
The name USS Canberra has been resurrected for LCS-30 and will be commissioned in Sydney Harbour in July this year. The original having been named after HMAS Canberra sunk at Savo Island although originally named USS Pittsburgh.
Relationships with allies are important too.
The builder Austal is also an Australian owned company.
Hello All,additional to that. the first USS Canberra was named in honour of the sunken HMAS Canberra at Savo Island in the Solomon's, the RAN named a Tribal Class destroyer HMAS Bataan in reciprocation for that honour bestowed by FDR. The second HMAS Canberra was an Adelaide / Oliver Hazard Perry FFG, and the current HMAS Canberra is a LHD. Until the current USS Canberra was commissioned, there was only ever one HMAS or USS Canberra in service at any one time, now however, there will be 2 Canberra's in naval service at the same time ! (Yes, I am aware of the P&O Canberra, but that was not a warship)
The USN also commissioned the USS Harold E Holt, named after the Australian Prime Minister who drowned whilst swimming in December, 1967, presumably at the instigation of LBJ. There is also a Joint USN/RAN Naval Communications Station named Harold E Holt in Western Australia, (and a Memorial Swimming Pool in Malvern, a suburb of Melbourne, and Holt's former electorate).
As 20 year navy veteran and a signalman , I really loved this segment. A couple things though about naming a ship “United States”, more than once “United States was the initial name of at least one other ship but main problem is the President arriving would be announced “United States, arriving” and the ships C.O. arriving would be “United States, arriving”. Of course Navy Regs could be changed but it would destroy 247 years of tradition.
That would come down to the number of bells struck over the 1MC. 8 for the President and 4 for the Captain.
It's preferable to not have a ship named after your country in a time of war, what if it sinks?
Germany had a Deutschland, but as soon as the war began, it was called to port and renamed Lützow. Too risky for morale
Would it be "United States of America" or just "United States"?
I ask because it could be confused with The United States of Mexico or The United States of Indonesia or The United States of... well I could go on with a dozen current or historic countries.
My dad served aboard multiple older carriers during Viet Nam. USS Oriskany, USS and the USS Yorktown. My family was involved heavily in ship building during WWII at the Kaiser Shipyard outside of Portland, OR. Family rumor had it that they were considering naming a Liberty Ship after our family, but given our German heritage, the idea was abandoned. Not sure how true that story is, but I've emailed the Navy Historical Command asking for information on this type of thing. Fingers crossed. :)
Lack of a "U.S.S. Jimmy Doolittle" is an absolute travesty.
USS Shangri-La would do double duty in honoring him.
I'm not sure the sailors assigned there would relish saying "I'm stationed on the USS Do little."
No way the Navy would not freak out over having an Army and Air Force guy's name on a ship.
@@daveneill5358 Ya know...I completely didn't think of that. I have been so consumed by his flying off a carrier that I totally forgot he was AAF. Thanks for the reminder.
@@skydiverclassc2031
It would probably wind up nicknamed the Eliza.
I flew H-2s from the USS Miller and the USS Jesse L Brown. As a Lamps Pilot, every ship I deployed with was named in honor of a hero(DD, FF, and FFG). The one exception was two months on Guadalcanal LPH-7, it was named in honor of many heroes.
Yep. I figured the next run of frigates should recycle some of the Knox names.
I really hope the motto of USS Doris Miller (the future carrier) is "Ordinary People Doing the Extraordinary". Because that is what Miller himself was, a common enlisted sailor who went well above and beyond any duty he was given.
The Spinal Tap bit cracked me up. Another great video, Ward!
They had to rename themselves _The New Originals_
@@j3dwin I was disappointed he left that part of the clip out.
I'd like to see a USS E-4 Mafia. The true backbone of the modern military! :)
Maybe for an Army ship
USS Specialist!
USS Sham-Shield
@@wilfred8326 Gotta be made of parts from three or four different ships. USS Don't Ask Me How I Got It.
Is there a chance of a USS Deplorable in the future?
I wore my father’s Wasp Association cap to an Electronics store on a rainy Sunday night and got into a conversation with a young man in the checkout line. I noticed his wife looking at me up and down. Then I heard her cry, “Look at his cap.” Her husband did and then asked if I had served on it. I told him that my father had been in its air group on its first Pacific cruise. He then told me he had been on the newest Wasp’s first cruise.
Maybe you should have informed the "Dumme kuh" that WASP was an acronym for Women Air Service Pilots who single-handedly, according to the AF historical inculcation that I received during my career, were the deciding factor for air dominance in WW2.😉
@@locknload4691 The first Wasp was named long before a woman wore a navy uniform. And there have been a bunch since then.
Somewhere I heard this little ditty, though:
Join the navy and ride the WAVES
Or join the army and lay WACS on the floor. Bawdy jokes predate our military, I’m sure.
I will personally be offended if they don't name at least 3 carriers after Ward.
EDIT: Scratch that, they should name an entire of class of carriers after Ward.
The USS Ward, the USS Carroll, the USS Ward Carroll, and the USS Mooch for good measure.
And a fighter jet
The F-41 Wardcat?
He goes by "Mooch" for a reason, probably should be supply ships that bear his name.
I was thinking the same thing. The ship is where the heart is.
I think Robert Smalls doesn't deserve to have a ship be re-named for him. Hear me out. That ship has probably 10-15 years left in its service life. Re-naming ships is a faux pas and he was such an incredible story he should get a new ship named after him
I'm sure he'll get a new ship when the current Smalls is retired. Probably one of the DDG(X)s. But yeah, I was honestly hoping for a carrier. One, because his heroism and life story is big enough to justify it, and two, because it would be hilarious to just see "USS Smalls" painted on the aft of something so gigantic.
@memelephant yes exactly! CG-62 has maybe 3-5 years left, if that. Robert Smalls needs a new Flt III DDG named after him, and hell I want to see a movie about him,
Looking forward to seeing people throwing out the “You’re killing me Smalls!” line from The Sandlot.
The Army has a ship named after him already, and has since 2008. That's probably why the Navy chose his name for CG-62.
It’s better than being named after a confederate victory. Literally slapping the USA in the face with a name like that.
Having a carrier named Lexington again would at least feel right. Not having an Enterprise at sea is just weird.
CV/CVN named after naval aviators- Thatch or McClusky. Amphibious carriers named after Marine aviators- Boynton
No civilian should have a ship named after them unless they are the Secretary of the Navy. The Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard have way to many members that ships can be named after.
i wish they would name one after Tarzan the Ape Man. would that be cool or what. sailors would be fighting each other to be on that bad boy.
Too
I never knew who Robert Smalls was before the Chancellorsville name chance but holy cow, that man is kind of badass.
I was on board the USS FOX (DLG-33) and did a tour to Vietnam 1968-69. This Ward Carroll episode had me do a little research. I found this about my home for two years: "USS Fox (DLG-33/CG-33) was a Belknap class cruiser of the United States Navy, named after Gustavus V. Fox, President Abraham Lincoln's Assistant Secretary of the Navy." The FOX was upgraded from a frigate to a cruiser and then decommissioned back in the 1990's.
As a Coast Guard retiree who comes from a family with a deep and long history of Navy service I’m very proud that a destroyer will be named after a World War II Coast Guard Navy Cross awardee. I’ll be sharing this info with the Mess at our next CPOA meeting. Semper Paratus
Speaking of Coast Guard heros, how about a new USS Douglas A. Munro?
Thoroughly researched, superbly produced and expertly delivered! Great piece!
I think it was ADM Rickover that said, "fish don't vote". A good metaphor why the naming convention is becoming politicised.
Yep, the reason's the SSN 668's were named after cites. However the Boomers were named after politicians from the git go.
I thought for Sure someone would have at least suggested the USS MOOCH......if I got the USS part wrong I apologize. But come on, The Mighty Mooch.....I like it.
We need to name carriers after carrier aviators. USS Wade McClusky, USS Richard Best, USS Stanhope Ring, USS John Waldron.
U.S.S. GHW BUSH
I was thinking about the Nimitz.
@@josephgriffin2388 Already done.
USS Ward Carroll, anyone?
@jamesgreen5298 Hopefully not anytime soon, but I'm not opposed. Going to need a USS Kevin Miller and a few others to go along with that. Should we acknowledge the only Navy jet ace of Vietnam? USS Randall Cunningham does have a certain ring to it.
Ward, thanks for a very interesting & informative presentation on the history of naming US Naval ships. Well done! I learned a lot.
This was a very informative, and balanced, breakdown. Thanks. A lot.
Matthew Fontaine Maury wasn’t just the father of oceanography. He was responsible for international scientific advancement across multiple fields and who’s research saved the lives of countless millions of people who’ve sailed across the seas by gathering and compiling the records of weather patterns, ocean currents, and other oceanographic data necessary for merchant and military vessels.
His work cannot be understated, which is why it is an absolute shame the Navy has rejected one of their greatest sons.
He was all of that and chose the wrong side to fight for!
@@jamiegumm4398, “he chose the wrong side!”
No one cares.
Brutally honest assessment Ward. Thank you for speaking truth to power!
Consider this difference between the Army and the Navy - unit histories.
In the WW2 British movie "The Way Ahead" (starring David Niven) he gives his platoon of trainees a lesson in their regiment's history by referring to their cap badge and the battle honors it has won. He tells them that even though they haven't done anything yet, they are "allowed" to wear that badge to show that when the time comes, they will do their duty just as their predecessors did. (Well worth watching that scene if nothing else, he put it a lot more eloquently than I just did.)
Ideally in the Army a soldier has an identity tied to his regiment's history. This is something the sailor usually lacks. If his identity is a ship with a lifespan of 20 years (give or take a decade or two), that doesn't give him much to go on. If more emphasis was placed on carrying on proud traditions from one ship to another by giving similar types of ships the same name, it could be - should be - of some benefit.
That is why British ships inherit the battle honours of previous ships of the same name.
So the new HMS Queen Elizabeth carrier commissioned a few years back inherits the Battleship Queen Elizabeth's honours from WWI and WWII.
The new HMS Warspite [which started construction earlier this year] will inherit 25 battle honours, going back to the 1590s.
One of your best videos! Loved the historical perspectives and *any* Dr Strangelove clip is always welcomed!
Love the show! I worked on the Miller from 1978 to 1980 at the Bethlehem Steel Shipyard in east Boston, Mass. Thanks for the history lesson.
I think that might be the most high-speed, clear-to-the-point, accurate analysis on any subject I have ever heard. Wow, thank you!
A great and powerful post. Ward, your research and interest shows. Appreciated!
FFG-61 (a ship I served on,) was named after Duncan Ingraham, a confederate Naval Officer.
My first ship was DDG-19. Named for Josiah Tattnall III, a US and CSA Naval Officer.
I would keep that quiet, otherwise they might cancel your DD-214.
At one time, it was seen as a sign of reconciliation. I guess nowadays, reconciliation is a thing of the past and hostilities are the name of the new normal.
If CVNs have to be named after a president there won't be another Enterprise or Nimitz, which feels like a loss.
It'll be another fifty years before we need to have another Enterprise OR Nimitz. Might not be carriers then. But, there should always be a Navy ship named Enterprise. There should also be ships named USS Johnston, USS Hoel and USS Samuel B. Roberts to forever honor those ships which died fighting a vastly superior force off Samar.
CVN-80 is being named Enterprise. That takes the name into the 22nd century (Ford class ships are supposed to serve 80 years.)
Thanks, Mooch! That was so packed full of information it kept my head spinning. That must have taken a lot of time to research and write.
Wow, this episode was packed with content! Super informative, Ward. Thanks for the research and the enlightened information on this topic.
We should name ships after honorably discharged enlisted veterans. There are way more of those than officers. How many ships get named after E1s?
For the most part, E-1s haven't done anything notable enough to be worthy of having a ship named for them.
@@RANDALLBRIGGS generally, if you earn a Navy Cross or Medal of Honor you're eligible to be honored by a ship name. Regardless of your rank.
@@RANDALLBRIGGS :
Obviously you've never heard of PVT. Rodger W. Young, posthumously awarded The Medal of Honor for action in the Solomon Islands in WWII.
@@WALTERBROADDUS :
Also without regard to which branch he/she served in.
Ok I am not US. but who could anyone get a honorably discharge with out at least being a E2 ?. I think the sailor should have don something heroic. somthing worth be rememberd for in navy service.
Thank Mr. Carroll for the subject knowledge that of late has been as clear as fog. I very much appreciate knowing more about The Navy I Love.
I like your manner of presentation. Factual and unbiased. Wish there were more like you.
Well presented, “social engineering” has NOT been kind to the U.S. Navy( I speak as a Navy vet 1972-1978)
Affirmative tj snipe. Served from 1970 to 1979
I was fortunate to be in the navy in 1968-72 . We had no drug screening, if you were caught doing pot and were a squared away you would be restricted to the ship for one liberty call and fined 50 dollars. if you were a bum, you would be given a discharge other than honorable. We had no women to deal with and acting like a sissy was discouraged . I could not be in today's navy. When i was on a carrier, life was wonderful. we were fighting a nation of landless peasant farmers who had no navy or airforce to speak of. would not like to be in a carrier today, with those fancy missiles and drones flying around. Also back then the uniforms were all made with natural fabrics and were comfortable easy to take care of and we looked sharp. What are sailors doing dressed in camo clothes? I can't understand what is going on in todays navy. I would never ever volunteer to join todays military.
USS R. Lee Ermey
They can build a frigate but call it a destroyer. (A reference to the fact he was a retired Staff Sergeant who got one of those "honorary promotions" to Gunnery Sergeant 30 years later after he got famous.)
Wow Ward!! Thought this episode was going to be boring but man I really did like it. Thanks for sharing that appreciate it very much
So informative. Thank you for all of your service. 🇺🇸
Great video. My two cents CONSTELLATION is the best ship name. Being a Connie alumni I'm not completely neutral on the issue. Thanks for another great video Ward.
Kitty Hawk
@@badlt5897 I respect your error 🙂
I was in Charleston SC, We had Uss Dewey DDG 45, and USS Dewert (FFG 45). What a cluster. So many missed deliveries.
Another great history lesson! Congrats on reaching over 400K!
Naming carriers after American battles was so cool and should continue.
USS Gettysburg
USS Marne
USS Normandy
USS Anzio
USS Midway
Very good. You covered many of the ship's names that I'm familiar with and thought was wrong. Giffords and Miller just for starters. I've always thought that naming carriers for people was wrong, but there are way too many to really argue the point. I served in USS Ranger (CVA/CV-61). She was the 7th ship to carry that name. The 1st was the Revolutionary War Sloop-of-War Ranger commanded by John Paul Jones. That Ranger was the first Continental Navy ship to hoist the Stars and Stripes, which it did on 4 July 1777.
Ranger (CV-61) was decommissioned in 1993 and we still don't have another Ranger. The 6th was USS Ranger (CV-4) the first carrier to be built from the keel up as a carrier.
I have talked with a couple of the historians in DC who work with SecNav and CNO on the appropriateness of a name for a new ship. They stated that Ranger was an excellent choice and would make a good lead ship name. I, and a number of my shipmates, have sent letters to the President, SecNav, SecDef, and CNO requesting the lead ship for the next class of DDGs be named Ranger. While this may not be in keeping with the naming convention for destroyers, we're already talking about a whole slew of ship's names that do not fit the category. So, what the heck?
BTW, the Revolutionary War Enterprise was also a Sloop-of-War. They do not carry the USS as they were in the Continental Navy before the US was founded. The 1st Independence started as a Sloop-of-War and was converted to a brig. That Independence was sailing in company with the Ranger into Quiberon Bay, France, on 14 Feb 1778 when Ranger received the first salute of a foreign power to the Stars and Stripes. The Forrestal class carriers 61 & 62 were the Ranger and Independence.
Sorry about the rambling and out of order stuff. I've just never been very good at getting everything in good order on a 1st draft.
So basically the only thing anyone can agree with is the name Enterprise? Thank you William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy. (Preemptive…I know the ship name goes back to the beginning)
The crew of CV6 did all to deserve that a long time before Star Trek, don’t get me wrong, I like Star Trek, but CV6 is a lot more relevant here, such a shame they did not preserve her
the name even goes farther back than CV6--
Make me SecNav, and the next aircraft carriers will be USS Excelsior, USS Defiant, USS Voyager, and HMS Bounty.
The second USS Enterprise almost did not survive. President Thomas Jefferson cut the Navy when he took office. The Enterprise was not on the KEEP list. Of course this news leaked and newspapers printed their outrage at the loss of the Enterprise.
The outcry persuaded Jefferson to keep the Enterprise. During the War with the Barbary Pirates, Jefferson built up the Navy to a greater size than it had been when he took office. But he never did lose his silly notion of a gunboat militia.
@@hlynnkeith9334 Benedict Arnold commanded a Enterprise during the Revolutionary War
Best show in a long time. Thanks.
Thank you for the independent, balanced, and nuanced breakdown of the white paper and exploration of the context of the controversial ship namings. I appreciate how hard you work at providing unbiased commentary in a world and media environment (yes, you are media!) where that seems increasingly rare. Thank you.
The usual problem, too many humans involved.
Thanks for the very thorough presentation!
Without humans there would be no ships, no Navy... for better or worse its a part of humanity.
I don't know if the USN already does this, but I think that USN hospital ships, should be named after Doctors, Medics or Nurses who did noticable service for the USN/Marines.
And as the USN don't have or build that many hospital ships, i recon that they won't run out of good solid names for them anytime soon
🤔🤔🤔
Another great video. Thank you for your excellent content.
A very interesting and informative presentation. Great job !
All politicians are corrupt…either immediately or over time they work for themselves and not for us…TERM LIMITS absolutely necessary…all elected posts
I'm honestly surprised that the Dorie Miller wasn't named the Jesse Brown instead. It would have fit in with Naval Aviation better.
100% Support.
Neither would be appropriate, in my opinion. CVN-81 should be Yorktown. Miller and Brown are good names for FFGs, in accordance with Naval tradition.
@@Hammerli280 adding on. CVN-82 should be Hornet.
I believe Brown had a DDG named after him.
Brown had a Knox class FF named for him.
Fantastic presentation. Strong Work and BZ.
Served on USS Preble DDG46 during Desert Storm. Preble was decommissioned afterwards. The current USS Preble DDG 88 is the 6th Navy ship named after Commodore Edward Preble
Ward, very interesting video. I grew up in the Bay Area and was living and working in Sam Jose when Milk and Moscone were killed. White got off on the Twinkie defense.
Thank you for the background and history on many of these renamings. A few I disagree with but most I am very much in favor of. I started to notice these breaks in conventional practice years ago. Breaking with convention every now and then is welcome for the right reasons and circumstances. As a lifelong Sailor I was taken aback when I heard a carrier would be named for Doris Miller. Should have been applied to a DDG but Im not going to get my skivvies in a wad about it. The intention was good but the action was misdirected. Love the vid Shipmate!
Fascinating historical overview, thank you for sharing.
Thanks mooch a wealth of Navy knowledge and history packed into a podcast.
Yet no mention of the Navy ships I spent the most time loading and unloading, namely the LMSRs (Large, Medium-Speed Roll-on/Roll-off). Their naming protocols have evolved over time. As a general rule, most were named after Army or Marine Corps servicemen who were awarded the Medal of Honor. The only two exceptions were the USNS Bob Hope and the USNS Fisher. Both ships were named after civilians who had a significant contribution to America's Armed Forces, both in the entertainment world (Bob Hope) and taking care of wounded warriors and their families (Zachary and Elizabeth Fisher of the "Fisher House" fame).
USO shows!
*** Former Navy (AG) , I thought it was bad luck to rename a ship? great episode !
Good for Admiral Rickover going head to head with the secretary of the navy. Standing up for himself.
The Carl Vinson was launched while Vinson was still alive(1980), but he died(1981) before we were commissioned(1982). I am Nucleus Crew and a Plankowner Signalman on the Vinson. When I reported aboard, the Gate Guard at NNSD (Newport News Shipbuilding & Drydock) had never heard of the Carl Vinson! When I told him it was an 1100 foot long aircraft carrier, he said "Oooohhhh, you mean Hull 611A!" So for all you Navynerds, the USS Carl Vinson was originally designated Hull 611A! The island was sitting on the pier, as only about five or six plates were welded on the flight deck, and those giant screws were leaning against each other on the end of the dock.
I always thought it was considered bad luck to rename a vessel after it was christened. If that's the case, things are going to get interesting for the US Navy.
I had the displeasure of serving "under" Mabus during my time in the USMC.
The thing that really turned me off from him was the USMC female unit trials.
When I was getting out they were assembling the units and beginning the "initial" training for their time.
If I remember correctly the plan was 6 months of that then a 3 month extended CAX designed to simulate a deployment.
The comparison units would just be a random group of all other MOS's needed pulled to participate. (don't know just the scuttlebutt at the time)
I saw some of my fellow 0811's getting tagged to go to the coed units and no one wanted to go so they started volunchosing people to go.
And they weren't shit bags. Everyone I saw was good to go & would have been as absolute asset to their training.
Granted there probably were bad marines in that group, but I doubt it was enough to change the results.
Later when the report was published saying women break easily & cannot operate at the same level (shocking I know) so the USMC requests to maintain the current unit standards. Old dumbass instead rejects the results and says do it anyways.
Everything I've heard about the results of this decision have been terrible.
I really hope this hasn't hurt our readiness.
If it has... we know exactly who to blame...
It’s extremely unlikely it’s hurt our readiness to any degree that needs to be worried about. I could see the Marine Corps having some growing pains with this new rule but I doubt it would be any worse than UCP was for the Army.
@@ChipCheerioOnly a POG would say something so incredibly asinine. Because wtf do POGs know about readiness? NOTHING.
Hello All, as current day Western militaries are not overwhelmed with male volunteers, and some women are keen to give it a go, then providing they can do the job, why not ? But, having said that, I also think that the women supporting services ( WRN / Women's Royal Navy etc) should be revived for female support staff who are not interested in at sea service, as during and after WW2, these women gave invaluable service that released men for sea service, and modern militaries need a lot of backroom staff to operate effectively. Just a thought.
Ward, very informative and well researched!!!
Most informative, thank you!! Great job on the research you did, my complements,
Stennis was definitely one of Reagan's less admirable decisions.
Hello Parrot. Is the vessel any less worthy?
I lived in Mississippi for many years, and despised Stennis as an old-guard segregationist. But he evidently changed enormously, late in life. I believe in giving people the opportunity to redeem themselves. Stennis in fact did quite a bit that was remarkable. He stood up to Eugene McCarthy, and was known as the Conscience of the Senate. In the 1980s, he not only voted for extension of the Voting Rights Act, but also campaigned for Mike Espy. That's a helluva turnaround.
None of us is pure. I'm a great admirer of Martin Luther King, Jr. But that doesn't mean that I'm anything but disgusted by his treatment of women.
You speak true Tom. A man must be judged by his treatment of women. Although I have been judged quite harshly myself. History will tell. Or forget.
I'd say his decision to grant amnesty to southern invaders was by far his worst decision.
Yep, Stennis was a racist, no doubt.
I had forgotten just how awful SecNav Mabus was.
Seriously fascinating history! Great content!
Thank you! Great video!,
None of this is a surprise. What part of Navy procurement is not political?
Four of my favorites:
USS Iowa
New Jersey
Missouri
Wisconsin
Giving the UNREP Oilers (Fuel supply ships) after the US rivers: USNS Pecos, USNS Yukon, USNS Tippecanoe ... and UNREP Dry cargo ships (Ammo supply ships) after the volcanoes: USNS Kiska, USNS Kilauea, USNS Shasta...are really the way to name.
Really well done and objective, much appreciated.
As a Black person whos grandfather served in the Navy, if they were going to name the carrier after a Black person it should have been the first Black Navy pilot. That would have been more appropriate. Im not a fan of pandering to one group or another but it has to make some logical sense of they are going to do it.
Or you can name it after Colin Powell. Commanding officer of the entire US military during the Gulf War and later a Secretary of State. I remember watching him give a press conference prior to the Gulf War where he was asked what he planned to do with the Iraqi Army. His answer was: "I'm going to pin it down and then I'm going to kill it." That was when I knew we were going to win - we had a _real_ general in charge.
Logic? In the Navy? In Congress?
Admiral Ernest J King was the highest ranking Naval officer during WW2 (well, the ranking active officer- Leahy had seniority, but served as Roosevelt's Chief of Staff, while King was CINC Fleet and the CNO)
DDG 51, a Farragut class destroyer was the only ship ever named after him. (I think)... One would think that he deserves the same level of recognition as Arleigh Burke, Emilio Zumwalt, etc. (Having a class of ships, or at least a current Burke bear his name...
I wonder why this is not the case? Could it be because of his notably abrasive personality? (Drachinifel, an excellent naval-focused CZcamsr, titled his biography of King 'Semper Iratus'). Maybe it's just that his surname could be confused with a not particularly democratic ideal of a leader (which doesn't seem likely)? Is he just being lost to history at this point? Does anyone have any ideas? ...it seems like a bit of an injustice to a remarkable Admiral. (He was the third highest ranking officer in WW2, and had an almost unbelievably impressive career.).
Thoughts?
Great info. Thanks Mooch.
As usual, a truly great report
As a Brit I am always flabbergasted by the size of your fleet. If it helps here the RN has plenty of names of no longer used or needs. Help yourself...
I always liked HMS Warspite and HMS Rodney.
@@georgesykes394 Love Warspite. It's rather like Spitfire in the air. Unapologetic - it's a warship or warplane.
If the US is to name warships after random politicians, which is bound to be divisive, why not instead use the names of (dead) American musicians? This is an endless resource, as American culture, for all its sometimes obvious failings, has a fantastically rich musical heritage.
Too bad Warspite will keep being re-used by the RN.
That's very generous of you. Do you plan on using "Firefly" again?
We do have USS Winston Churchill (DDG-81) an Arleigh Burke class destroyer.