The Absolute Worst Scientist Of All Time - And Why He’s Popular Again
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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Few scientists have caused more death and suffering than Trofim Lysenko. He was a Soviet botanist whose ideas around genetics (i.e., he didn’t believe in it) led to massive famines across multiple decades when Josef Stalin promoted his ideas across the country. And yet… He’s becoming popular again. Why? Let’s look at it.
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LINKS LINKS LINKS
www.biography.com/political-f...
www.bbc.co.uk/teach/joseph-st...
coub.com/view/focnl
www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_f...
www.britannica.com/biography/...
ethos.lps.library.cmu.edu/art...
www.britannica.com/biography/...
www.wbur.org/news/2017/04/07/...
www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...
www.britannica.com/science/La...
www.smithsonianmag.com/scienc...
www.theatlantic.com/science/a...
kidshealth.org/en/kids/what-i...
everything-everywhere.com/tro...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_...
clas.ucdenver.edu/nhdc/sites/...
www.theatlantic.com/science/a...
www.famousscientists.org/trof...
everything-everywhere.com/tro...
www.cell.com/current-biology/...
www.theatlantic.com/science/a...
www.cell.com/current-biology/...
www.theatlantic.com/science/a...
www.the-scientist.com/foundat...
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:50 - The Great Purge
4:38 - Trofim Lysenko
6:45 - Trofim's Beliefs
9:50 - The Beginning of the End of Lysenko
12:45 - Epigenetics
15:00 - Sponsor - Brilliant - Věda a technologie
My Mom used the starving people in Africa line once, I asked her to name two of them and got my ass beat. Good times.
I always asked for an envelope so I could send food
Dang you were a sharp sassy one haha
ROFL.
😂
@@stargatis My mom would've gotten a box and sent me instead
The unexpected generational gap of “there are starving kids in Africa” and “there are starving kids in China.”
Lol I thought it was a Mandela effect till I came to the comments 😂😂😂
@@pettykittyfam It's just him being PC it's always been starving kids in Africa
@@HighOnPoint412how is it more pc that the starving kids be in China??? It's starving kids, it's not pc either way lol
@@HighOnPoint412*LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER* in the John Lennon song “Nobody Told Me” he says “they’re starving back in china”
the song is about him raising his youngest son, so it can be assumed that the line is him talking to Sean
Right?! I was born in 96 and I always heard starving kids in Africa! For reference my parents were born in 63 and 65.
There is a legend about Lysenko and Landau (a Soviet physicist). Landau asked "if we cut off the right ear of a horse for many generations, at some point we'll get a breed of horses born without the right ear?" Lysenko answered that was true. "And how does your theory explain virgins?" Landau replied
I don't get it
@@AnglephileSwedenGermanLysenko basically was against the concept of genetics and believed that characteristics can be passed down to offspring as long as it has been acquired during the lifetime.
Landau brings up the fallacy with the argument. The act of cutting off the ear doesn’t affect the next generation bc that’s not how genetics get passed down. It doesn’t cause the further generations to have clipped ears and cutting them off doesn’t increase the chances of a breed being born without the right ear.
landau is calling out this logic as it would imply that being a virgin is “inherited” which obviously does not make sense and is not genetic
@@Mommyofmeats lol ok the guy is such a crack pot that I didn't even bother to pay attention to his ridiculous ideas, it seems he is the stubborn type to never change his mind no matter what
Somehow that sounds exactly like something Billy gates would say.
@@libertybabe6086 he would but also looking at the ponies
A friend of mine used to say "Drink up, there are children sober in Europe!"
My father *was* a starving kid - he barely survived the Hunger Winter in the Netherlands during WWII, so when we didn't want to eat what was placed before us, we would get a lecture about his rickets and eating nothing but the cores of cabbages and tulip bulbs. There was literally no way to compromise - dinner stayed on the plate until you finished it.
@c.j.nyssen6987 ... Holland and Europe/England to Russia, went thru horrible due to that war ... So many in today's society have no idea how lucky they are ... The farmers in the Netherlands, are currently under fire from the Deep State, that is trying to take their land, kill their herds, prevent the planting of crops ... They are TRYING to create another starvation event without a war ... Support the farmers of ALL countries ... Without them there is no food!!!!
you bet it did, my father would do that, try to make me eat food that I detested and made me sick but when I refused to eat it, that old demon would say then it will be here in the morning when you get up, that was the start of the BATTLE ROYAL UNTIL THAT BASTARD DIED !!
That's the horrible form of domestic violence.
@@im_pianono
@@hellohello2582wrong choice of words but it is abuse. Eating when not hungry can cause all sorts of problems. All that does is perpetuate eating disorders
My grandfather lived through the great famine in China, he told me that there were no birds in the sky and you won’t hear any crickets, frogs or cicadas during summer nights because people ate all of them or else they’d starve to death. There were also dead trees everywhere since people started eating the tree barks when they run out of stuff like rats and bugs to eat, those were some harrowing times.
Mao ordered all the birds killed so they wouldn’t eat any crops..result? Insect pests proliferated.
The fact that Mao blamed the famine on an overpopulation of sparrows to disguise his own mistakes led to sparrow hunt events, where millions of birds were killed. That, in turn, created a plague of locusts in the following season that killed the rest of the crops and eradicated other healthy insect populations. So that might also be a factor why your grandfather said he didn't hear any birds or crickets in that time.
@@marcpym5251 Not just sparrows people back then were eating any wild birds they could catch, if they can’t get the birds they’ll just look for nests and eat the eggs, that’s how bad it was. My grandfather said he saw people falling to their death because they were climbing the tallest trees in his town in hopes of finding eggs in the bird’s nest that are too tall for others to reach.
I am CERTAINLY NOT an authority on China, I vacationed there once and saw or heard almost no wildlife, I saw a few wild birds once other than that, nothing
Unfortunately China has a long history of poor farming methods as a result of its late industrialization. Tens of millions died during the Taiping Rebellion during the 19th century due to famines. Even during the Republican era, there were cases of villages fighting against each other, bandits and warlords stealing food, families having more children that they could feed etc that led to several regional famines. Famines come in cycles, and while there are natural influences behind the Great Famine, it is no doubt exacerbated by Mao's policies. While he was a good at planning military struggles, he really had no business managing the economy with ridiculous ideas like planning seeds together and deeper, melting household metals to produce steel etc in a deluded effort to industrialize, but only produced failed harvests and worthless iron. While the USSR abandoned Lysenkoism under Khrushchev, it remained influential in China for a few more years due to the Sino-Soviet Split.
Interestingly, there are some crops that actually DO grow best when crowded, like wheat and corn. If you try to plant your corn in rows too far apart, you won't get any heads because they are only pollinated by wind, but not very well. They have to be grown in clusters to get properly fertilized. And of course, the famous "Three Sisters" polyculture is very crowded, because each hole has three seeds in it: Corn, bean, and squash. It's amazingly effective, keeps the soil from drying out (squash leaves cover the bare soil, preventing water and CO2 loss), the beans add nitrogen to the soil (when the plants died back, they were often left to rot in situ, which is how atmospheric N2 gets reincorporated into the soil), and fruits from the three plants provided almost a complete protein profile (add some wild game, and you've got your missing B12). That sort of polyculture also reduced the need for weeding, as its harder for weeds to grow when almost all the available sun space was taken up. It also reduced some insect pests, as it's harder for them to locate squash and beans amidst the corn. But some fungal diseases could spread more rapidly if there was too much rain late in the season. However, this sort of careful polyculture was not a part of Lysenko's repertoire, and he likely would have rejected them, as they came from "The West" (Courtesy of many Eastern Woodlands nations in North America).
It's the same with the cows, treating them better will net you some gains regarding milk production and weight for meat. They aren't unlimited and they don't pass down genetically. You just get a modest, limited gain for your efforts and it makes you a more ethical producer when you treat your animals better.
@@emilala9049 Very true! Paying attention to the ecological niche and behavioral ecology of the organism you're trying to raise - be it plant or animal - often times increases your gains. But the key thing is, YOU have to make an effort to adapt to THEM. Some stress is good and can increase adaptability, but overstressing the organism (like keeping cows in overcrowded CAFOs, or planting seeds too deep) is generally bad for the organism and reduces gains.
@@karlwithak. Ignoring ecology has never worked out for very long in agriculture. The gains we made in production during the "green revolution" are now almost entirely mitigated by evolutionary adaptation by various crop pests, and fertilizer is getting more expensive because we may be running out of phosphorus - which, unlike oil, we have no alternatives to. It's the second most limiting nutrient for plants after nitrogen, and our current methods of industrial agriculture may mean that we hit peak phosphorus by around 2030. And the phosphorus cycle is slow, as it gets deposited into rocks that we then mine.
@@rachelwebber3605 Not to mention the state of the aquifers around the US (can't speak for anywhere else, but I bet we're not the only country with depleted aquifers). In a great many places that we used to consider prime farming land the wells are beginning to pump less water or run dry altogether. It took thousands of years to fill these aquifers, we're maybe a decade or 15 years before we'll be pumping the lot of them dry, and those will just be the ones that didn't collapse sooner.
We should be looking for hardier varietals now. Going back into the heirloom seeds, looking for something that puts down deeper roots and has some resistance to drought. You could cross pollinate to enhance the qualities you wanted, like tolerance to temperature variations, higher yield, whatever. The problem is you can really only adapt, if you start adapting right now and a lot of people are really set in their ways.
@@emilala9049 A lot of countries that underwent colonialism have depleted reservoirs and soils due to colonists importing agricultural processes that are not adapted to the specific region. What we should be doing is looking at what the practices of last culture in the area was before colonization, determine if it was sustainable practice (not all cultures in a given area had sustainable practices), and then reincorporating the best practices and using technology to augment and improve on them.
The great famine in China largely happened because Mao would require unrealistic productivity (like in yhe USSR) but since China is a face-saving culture, the local government leaders would lie about their numbers. Then Mao, thinking there was a surplus of food, exported huge amounts to other countries. It was a classic example of how disasterous centralized planning can be.
I think the main problem described has to do with lies, rather than centralized planning. Non-centralized planning based systems also have the potential to fail spectacularly in various ways when relying on lies. Garbage in = garbage out.
Basically, lies destabilize the future. When someone relies on a lie to make decisions that will effect the future, those decisions are inevitably sub-optimal when based on trashy and/or intentionally incorrect input data. This typically results in sub-optimal outcomes, sometimes spectacularly so.
At the moment, it would appear that the US government is probably lying about employment numbers and economic health. Some of the economic numbers that they are publishing do not make sense anymore and are not self consistent. If one pays attention to Joe Biden's speeches and Twitter account postings, he would basically have you believe that "Bidenomics" is working great, the economy is in excellent health, the economic future of the US is bright, unemployment is low, jobs creation is strong, everything about Biden's handling of things is profoundly awesome, etc.
In actual reality, the US government most likely is lying about economic numbers, and the economy is not as strong as they claim, due to the natural consequences of high inflation due to COVID-19 policy associated money printing, followed by high interest rates. Consequently, many people are being squeezed and are having a hard time paying their bills, largely due to eroded purchasing power due to major inflation, and partly because of general economic weakness. Such conclusions would not be obvious if one trusts and believes the US government's "official" economic numbers and narrative, which paints an abnormally rosy picture.
Meanwhile, the US Federal Reserve (the "Fed") is seemingly relying on the lying US government economic narrative (of a strong economy, with high employment, and good future outlook), and they appear to be trusting this false narrative, so much so that they have jacked up the interest rates very rapidly and quite far. The Fed appears to be assuming that the economy actually is strong and can handle the increased headwinds associated with high interest rates.
In practice, this is likely a very wrong conclusion, based on trusting the economic and labor statistic lies of the US government. It may be that the high interest rates, combined with the weak overall economy, combined with already distressed banks (due to the Fed also removing money from the M2 money supply by way of shrinking its "balance sheet"), combined with other actions (like turning back on student loan repayments), could lead to widespread debt defaults and possible banking failure. The Fed may be setting the US up for major economic instability and probable catastrophe, and they are either doing it due to profound incompetence, unintentional but still major incompetence (due to relying on economic number lies of the US government), and/or intentional malfeasance.
It may be that the US government and the US Fed actively and intentionally want people to be poor, so that they consume less energy, so as to reduce CO2 emissions, in an effort to try to help "solve" looming climate change related problems. Joe Biden has claimed in at least one speech that he considers climate change to be a bigger overall concern, than nuclear war.
But the problem isn't necessarily centralized planning, but the face-saving culture!
China just like the USSR didn't and doesn't give a damn about people. North Korea doesn't either. Their leaders all have food.
Mao caused the famine. Selling the food was incidental to all the other causes.
Mao pushed agricultural collectivization and placed military leaders in charge. These leaders had little to no knowledge of agriculture.
Mao pushed the farmers to plant more than one rice crop a year, even when he was told the weather didn’t support it.
Mao ordered deeper plowing of the soil, which destroyed the topsoil.
Mao ordered farmers to plant seeds closer together - not allowing them the breathing space they needed.
Mao ordered the killing of birds (sparrows) because they ate grain seeds. According to FEE, “In what is one of the most bizarre and ecologically damaging episodes of the Great Leap Forward, the country was mobilized in an all-out war against the birds. Banging on drums, clashing pots or beating gongs, a giant din was raised to keep the sparrows flying till they were so exhausted that they simply dropped from the sky. Eggs were broken and nestlings destroyed; the birds were also shot out of the air.” Without birds, the locusts and grasshoppers were free to devour crops.
Mao militarized agriculture with forced military-like routines for farming.
Human waste was used as fertilizer.
Farming tools were melted down for steel, disabling production.
@@jamesp3902 Amazing how much these things sound like Lysenko's ideas. Isnt it funny how two people can come to the same conclusion? It's almost like Mao was basing these choices on the ideas of Lysenko. Coincidence, right?
I live in Kazakhstan, it's refreshing to hear someone even mention the tragedy of famine in post Soviet counties. Thanks for spreading the word
They called it the Holodomor in Ukraine. It hit Kazakhstan a few years earlier I think, it was called the Goloshchyokin genocide, named after the Communist party leader in Kazakhstan at the time.
The way he worded felt like Holodomor was "natural" or "fucky wucky" by communists and not a deliberate genocide like in Kazakhstan too.
@@MrDaol23the word holocaust was first used by Karl Marx I’m pretty sure
And now the famine creators are on the move again it seems,farmers under restrictions, supply chain disfunction, plans to feed people bugs,the suppression of livestock production, created malnutrition etc etc.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad
Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself
The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons
Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine."
it was taken away from ukraine
Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor.
Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them.
(or he was a Ukrainophobe)
The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine czcams.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/video.html.
Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow.
You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. CZcams Channel - Toronto TV
czcams.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/video.html
Africa. My mom always said kids in Africa. And there are still lots of people starving in Africa today.
OT: Can't believe I never heard of this famine before!
Exactly. Kind of tripped me out he went China when 1000% everything was starving kids in Africa. All over the TV. Flies buzzing around the starving kids. Sally Struthers, everything....
@@carltuckerson7718 100% I remember those Ethopian children. But if Joe said Africa, there's a good chance that a mob would form.
Same here, my parents always said starving children in Africa
Well, you are not from the US is my guess, let's remember the US had the 'red scare' which probably really, euh.. convinced, people communist country bad, thus also China bad.
Depends on age I would assume. My parents said China and Africa. But Africa was starving in the 80s and 90s. So anybody younger than 50 probably heard Africa. African famines were also similar in collectivization and state control of agriculture caused famine.
My parents never used the "Starving children" line on us. They would just say, "Okay. Don't eat it. It will be your breakfast in the morning." It didn't take us long to just shut up and eat - except my oldest sister.. She was always a bit hard headed.
Instead of using guilt they just used outright threats! 😂
During my young childhood, my Mother frequently employed the name of the currently starving nation of Biafra. "Eat your dinner. Children are starving in Biafra." One night, my 8-year-old mind and mouth responded to that by saying, "Then send this to them." I was sent to my room. Just as well. 😂
One thing to remember about the "wealthier farmers" is that they were just that, "wealthier" not wealthy. Maybe their small house was made of something fancy like brick or plastered wood rather than compacted earth or plain wood, roof tiles instead of straw, maybe an extra room. Excesses like that.
Communism ran like a marine boot camp. Break down the individual and then rebuild him as a marine.
A few more cows than average. Being able to pay one person to help get the crop in at harvest time. As you say,any small differential of wealth was enough to make one's family a target.
My mother used the 'Starving children in Africa' version.
It wasn't that I didn't like the food she made, it was the quantity she put on the plate, starting the threats when I was so full I felt sick.
It didn't matter how much I told her I was full, she would threaten to backhand me - her ringed fingers like knuckledusters. (I bet many a person on this comments section knows exactly what it's like to get a sharp engagement ring slapped across the cheek).
Looking around at the high number of partly finished kids meals in my local café, I would say that 90% of people just don't understand that a child can get by on a lot less food than they generally put on their plates.
As a consequence of my mother's bullying tactics, I decided to parent 'differently.' From the beginning, I would put just a small amount of food on my son's plate and instructed him to 'tell' me 'if' he wanted some more.
He has never had any food issues during his life so far (age 28), maintaining a good, steady average weight throughout - unlike me who has zipped up and down the scales due to crash diets and binges.
That's terrible. Both your mother's abuse (yes, that is abuse), and your weight fluctuation. Being fat is bad for the body, but is actually preferable to changing weight frequently. It puts more stress in your body than being overweight, so you might consider settling for being overweight instead of that, although ideally a slow but steady diet would be best.
I was always beaten severely and forced to stay at the table until I finished. If I didn't, beaten again. I was shamed and ridiculed by my family for being skinny and forcefed mysekf until skinny fat, so still a size zero just very unhealthy fat percentage. At 18 I accepted myself and stopped. Still a size 0 but I don't hate my body or food. Thank you for treating your child so wonderfully
As a nutritionist I am so glad you learned from your childhood and gave your child a good foundation for healthy eating. If you give a good variety of healthy (and of course indulgent) foods, you'll be able to self-manage and eat responsibly. A lot of people have quite messed up hunger cues because they're taught that bloat=full which causes stomachs to stretch out over the years needing more and more food. My husband had to relearn when he met me and now is able to eat much happier and even say no when more food is offered if it'll make him feel sick :)
Your parenting is a lot better. I grew up with a sort of mixture of the two. Like your son, I was served a little, I would have to ask for more myself. But I was obliged to eat whatever I put on my plate. And if I did change my mind, the response could be that in other places children were starving, so I shouldn't waste my own food. And certainly there was no desert for me if I didn't finish the main dish. I couldn't ditch 3 potatoes in favour of having room for icecream. Then I shouldn't have taken so many potatoes in the first place. I can only remember twice that I had no room for desert. I learned to take on my plate only what I needed, when it was needed.
My childhood, and on occasion having tried to starve during long travels, has taught me always to eat my food, on my plate as well as in my home. Food I can't eat now, I keep for later. I never throw away good food. And I hardly have any food disposals at all. I only have, and prepare, what I eat.
If my dad was out of town and I didn't eat fast enough, my food was put in the blender and I had to drink that or tabasco sauce. If he was in town, I was allowed to toss it once I'd eaten enough. I thought he was aware, but he found out just a couple of years ago and was PISSED. If he still spoke to my mom or had her phone number, shit would've hit the fan even though I'm in my 30s. My sisters and I have all had to reassess our relationships with food over the years. Even now, I feel awful if I don't eat every last scrap of food on my plate. With my sisters' kids, "take another bite of the veggies, then you can be done" is pretty much it when they want to stop eating.
I'm a biologist, and this video was clearly precise and relevant. Thank You!
Fortunately, we've all learned our lesson from Lysenko's antics, and nobody ever mixed science with politics again. Ever.
🥲
clotshot 😂
ouch
But it’s happening again in Russia.
Science isn't the issue, dogma is the issue. Christian nationalism has more in common here by wanting to throw out science of evolution for young earth garbage.
I read about the chinese famine in the book Wild Swans. The author was a child in china at the time. She talks about the horrific things her parents witnessed and how even though they were well off for the time, her parents still starved themselves to keep the children full. The things that happened during that famine were appalling
The truly horrible part is that's only the tiny part we know about. There were repeated famines and crop shortages throughout the 20th and 21st century, but it never gets reported. The average height dropped by 2 to 3 centimeters in height for multiple generations. That doesn't occur from one short 2 year problem. It's a systematic means of control through denial of resources. There have been some truly horrific tales coming from the Muslim minority population.
This is an amazing three-generation account from one family-grandmother, mother and then the author herself. Because of this multi-generation linear account, we get a much more full idea of the way this chunk of China's history came about and why it is the way it is today. One of the saddest things mentioned (among many, many others) was the amount of China's written history that was destroyed at that time (the 1960's) by Red Guards under Mao's dictatorship.
"All that is a lie fabricated by capitalists." - American Schools
I saw her give a reading at Prairie Lights bookstore in Iowa City. amazing stories and an impressive woman...she didn't seem to be bitter or resentful an was generally well grounded for a writer 😋. it was hard to listen to because she was there and experienced it this emoted the experience as she read.
✌🏻
This is one of your best in awhile.
Nice
Nice
👍
Super
Hello
One of my grade school teachers used the "starving children" argument on me once. My response was, "So they'll starve if we eat all the food?" She didn't use it again after that.
A few years back I read a book called The Lysenko Affair by David Joravsky. It went into some more detail of Lysenko and his ideas. I'd def give it a read if you're intrigued by this chapter of history. :D
See also Chapter 13 of 'Nine Lives - the Autobiography of a Yorkshire Scientist' by Sydney Harland ed by his Californian nephew Max Millard - published only online - google it and download for free. Harland, a REAL scientist and world expert in plant genetics, visited Vavilov in the USSR in 1933-4 and while there was introduced to Lysenko - and saw right through the wretch. Harland also however witnessed the effects of the widespread famine which was already raging, well before Lysenko got into a position of real power and influence.
My folks never used the 'starving children elsewhere ' guilt trip. They just said, " Eat it, or you will wish that you had!"😊No guilt trips, just straight-up threats of violence 😂
My mom always told me that if I didn’t eat, I’d end up in the hospital with horribly low blood sugars.
Which was accurate. Diabetes backed up Mom’s statements.
And that’s why I don’t like eating and kind of have to be bullied into eating now. At 32!
@stizelswik3694 only one?
I didn’t use any… I’m a one-man hurricane when set loose in a kitchen
LOL. I just told my son, "this is what's for dinner. Eat it or go hungry!" He generally ate it. 🤣
As a child growing up in a family of eight other siblings, you ate or you missed out because one of the other kids would eat the food off your plate. I chose to have one child and because I knew that they didn't like cooked carrots, I gave her raw carrots. She didn't like boiled veges, so I stir fried them. I tried to never make an issue of food in any way because
I was concerned about eating disorders that were prevalent as she was growing up in the 1990s. And still are.
@@annakeye I mainly went by the very-wise Dr. Spock's book of baby and childcare -- if the kid doesn't want to eat whatever, just go on to the next thing. Then ask them to try it again some time later, etc. It worked well in most cases. But he still hates broccoli, damn it. 🤣
Interesting, I live in post Warsaw Pact country, and I have never heard about "eat your food because kids in China are starving". I heard it, but not about China, but about Africa. Maybe since China was/ is communist, saying that kids are starving in China was politically dangerous, so our parents were saying it about Africa instead.
And about main topic, it is crazy, that people try to rehabilitate him. And parallels between him and current anti science/ pseudo science movement is terrifying.
Saying starving children in Africa is pretty common in the US as well. My parents said children in Haiti, but I think that was because our church worked with a charity in Haiti.
I'm American, my parents also used the starving kids in Africa line, when I was growing up also was around the time of the Somali food crisis and the failed us intervention in Somalia.. So I imagine Africa was more topical at that time.
These days I still use that phrase, but instead of saying Africa, China I say the name of a local town as I feel that has more impact. Instead of some far away place.
Pseudo science movements today like gender ideology are very concerning.
The parallels that are terrifying is not that pseudoscience and anti science is a thing in society. It always has been.
The terrifying thing is that we have state sanctioned scientists that can not be questioned, and artificial consensus by means of silencing any opposition.
Just take a look at Anthony "I am the science" Fauchi. Take a look at the mRNA vaccines and the attempts to silence and shame anyone with concerns.
The danger comes not from the individuals with different ideas, but from individuals given state power to force those ideas on others.
that's right... if you throw your food away, the same amount of food will be forcefully removed from the mouths of hungry kids on the other side of the world. and you will be directly responsible for that. now force yourself to eat that can of spaghetti-o's even though you are full from the preservatives
I love your channel so much, it's very informative and entertaining. I've been watching for quite some time and I appreciate all the hard work that goes into it. Unfortunately, I'm growing increasingly hard of hearing these days and the background music played under your voice lately makes it very difficult to hear what is being said. Even with the closed captions helping me, it's very distracting and almost louder than your voice. Just letting you know for myself and for those of us in the audience who may have difficulty hearing. It might help if the music were just a touch softer or more melodic. I think it's the bigger highs and lows of the synth music and the occasional sustained bass instead of a more steady, mid-range melody that makes it so difficult to hear over. Again, thank you so much for your wonderful, intelligent content, which I will keep watching even if I have to turn the volume down and just read the captions. XD
The core requirement for effective science is open debate unhindered by politics or authoritarianism.
Trump is anti science and his followers follow suit.
Lysenko was used in my horticulture classes as an example of how science and politics did not mix. We were told that he had set agriculture production in Russia back decades.
And yet we mix politics with science in the US and never give it a thought.
Not just agriculture. Medical genetics and a lot of other areas of applied biology.
But but but politicians have guaranteed that MRNA "vaccines" are safe and effective. The media agreed and celebrated the push. They gave immunity for sure, but not for the people that took the "vaccine" but the politicians gave legal immunity to these creators/distributors. Luckily the MSM and politicians give a fair look at the research not (in)directly funded by the manufacturers right? right?
politics is a science
@@RichOrElse It’s a social science, not a hard science.
"to be fair to Lysenko" I don't think anyone owes that guy a single thing, my dude. you're good.
See I was guilted by the thought that the runner bean I left on the plate might feel abandoned.
Very well done. I was so afraid you were going to say at the end that epigenetics was synonymous with Lysenkoism, but you explained the difference well. Kudos…
In the UK my mum used the “starving children in Africa” line. But there were actually children starving in Biafra at the time, so she kind of had a point.
Heard that all the time too, and used to tell my own children the same thing when they wouldn't eat their greens. The Sahel Belt has been an on-and-off humanitarian crisis for decades though, so "starving children in Africa"-line is sadly correct.
Ukraine is an agricultural country and produced grain for the entire USSR, and the USSR was a major grain escort abroad
Even with an inefficient farming system, there was enough food in Ukraine to support itself
The USSR created repressive laws such as the "Law of Spikelets" which prohibited the use of available grain and required food coupons
Even before the famine, as of May 17, 1932, there were no flour reserves in Ukraine, as evidenced by the resolution of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union "On Measures to Implement the Resolutions of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks on Food Aid to Ukraine": out of 6.5 million poods of grain released to Ukraine, the Politburo requested that 1.5 million be imported in flour, "in view of the complete absence of flour reserves in Ukraine."
it was taken away from ukraine
Not only grain, but also other foodstuffs, including food surrogates that were of little use and unfit for consumption. Not all peasants died of starvation when the procurement agencies pumped out all the bread, as even the poorest peasant households had other foodstuffs left over. The picture changed when the state resorted to confiscating food from all "debtors," i.e., the authorities carried out a terror of starvation against the "debtors." It was the confiscation of all food that caused the famine to turn into the Holodomor.
Stalin had an obsessive idea that Ukrainians were hiding grain or living too richly, and he decided to kill them.
(or he was a Ukrainophobe)
The NKVD army surrounded the border along Russia and Belarus to restrict people from traveling, because the famine was only in the Hetnic lands of Ukraine and Kazakhstan.
Timothy Snyder, an American historian and professor at Yale University, talks about this in the 15th lecture of his course on Ukraine czcams.com/video/1dy7Mrqy1AY/video.html.
Of course, such repressive laws were passed not in Ukraine, but in the capital of the USSR, Moscow.
You can also see more details in the Ukrainian video. CZcams Channel - Toronto TV
czcams.com/video/SnvR7HeyzTA/video.html
Yeah, I remember my mum using the Africa line, it was because we all knew about places like Ethiopia thanks to charity telethons. The "starving children in Africa" line then gave birth to dozens of politically incorrect jokes like "What's the fastest thing on Earth? .. an Ethiopian with a can of beans. What's the second fastest? The other Ethiopian chasing him with a can opener."
pretty sure somalia is going through a famine right now so it's still relevant
these days I mostly keep hearing a "starving pensioners in the UK" line.
My grand parents would never ask "how are you?" And they'd always ask "have you eaten?"
My grandmother was not satisfied unless you accepted something to eat. “What’s wrong? Why aren’t you hungry?” And then she’d list a dozen things she could either serve or cook for me, until finally I’d agree to something
"Sec fan?" (Eat rice?)
@@TheWatchernator 不，肯定是英語. No, definitely English.
@@redwingsbaby 🤗
13:34 The Time Magazine cover story on epigenetics towards the end of 2010 said that with nematodes, the changes lasted 500 generations!
Thomas Midgley Jr. could possibly give Lysenko a challenge for being the most destructive scientist.
My sister sometimes poured milk down the sink, because in her 5 year old mind, the drains were going downward and china was on the other side of the earth, so she was sending milk to the starving children in china 😂 None of us knew this till a few years ago, btw. She was never caught in the act.
reminds of how I used to drop pieces of string cheese into my family's house's floor vents. i wanted to feed the mice because I was obsessed with mouse books at that age- the one with the motorcycle, the schoolhouse one, Redwall especially... probably doesn't help that my uncle was encouraging me, lol
Vavilov was an absolute hero, he knew that Lysenko's theories would lead to starvation so he argued against them even though going against stalin was a death sentence. He also came up with the idea for the seed bank and set one up in st Petersburg.
Don't want no Captain Crunch, don't want no Raisin Bran
Well, don't you know that other kids are starving in Japan?
This guy sure gives Thomas Midgley Jr. a run for his money in competition for the history's worst scientist by accident. Between the two of them, more people have died than in like all of the wars ever.
When my parents told me about the starving kids in Africa I always thought “how does me eating this help? Give it to them then!”. I still believe that’s the most logical answer
Well, first you've got to transport it thousands of miles away, probably across an ocean, into a country with very few refrigerated trucks and terrible infrastructure. Then you've got to avoid it being stolen by local watlords or organized crime. And even if you succeed at that, you haven't fixed the underlying problem that people in that region can't sustain thenselves and will immediately start starving again the moment people from another continent stop shipping them food at enormous expense. If you actually want to help people, better to ask "why were they starving in the first place and how might I fix THAT" rather than giving them food. That's why, after hundreds of billions of dollars thrown at the problem, there are still starving children. If it was so simple as "well give them some food then, idiots!" it would have been solved ages ago.
I think it's actually a lot less scary and depressing to assume people in wealthier countries are just greedy and heartless and don't care. Acknowledging that the problem is actually difficult enough that people have tried everything that's commonly suggested and failed is a lot scarier.
@@loganwolfram4216Basically the issue with most government handouts, they don't solve the fundamental issues, just address the symptoms at an extreme cost.
@@holy3979 Which is still better than doing nothing, if solving the fundamental issues is not an option.
okay can you cover my rent from now on then?@@lonestarr1490
I did the same - repeatedly, and never understood why it always resulted in a smack.
I wonder when the China-Africa switch happened, and if it was the same everywhere. (I don't remember my grandparents ever referencing starving children in China, though they did occasionally use outdated versions of other phrases...)
What the Hell is this cheerful music of sheer dread overpowering your voice Joe?
My parents said "starving kids in Korea." This was in the '50's.
I love how it's now 3 months later and I have a grand total of 1 "like" on my previous comment where I list facts on this issue.
For those who actually care what's going on in this world, James Lindsay has another video on the topic premiering today in 4 hours. It's titled, "Medical Lysenkoism in the American Medical Association". I suggest you watch it.
Thank you for this. (But it is 2 hours long, yowie!)
The AMA is not unique, unfortunately. The education sector and even U.S. National Academy of Science are infected with the same malady.
Are you familiar with the "grievance studies" affair?
When I was brought up, the "starving children in China" line was the attack vector used by most parents. Then I come here and my wife was told *in the same time frame* that *she* had to eat up because there were "starving children in capitalist countries" who wished they could have it.
Yeah but what capitalist county had a great famine that killed tens of millions
Where is here? North Korea?
North korea, home of such foods as coffee (b4 this americans just drank cups of snow) or hamburgers (invented by kim jung il personally)
@@ytcensorhack1876 He said "but when I came here". Since here isnt a specific place, it's subjective, it was a valid question. BTW, Kim Jung Il also invented the planet, so we should all be thanking him.
Here in Europe we say 'Africa'. You know, where there are actually a bunch of starving children, not just due to propaganda
To be clear about the cows, they do produce more milk when they are treated well, but the effect is not nearly as big as genetics and hormone levels. If you have a low milk-producing cow, and she isn't sick or underfed, pampering her isn't really going to make a big enough difference to validate keeping her in the herd.
But pampering your cow is fun
@@kiltedcripple absolutely still pamper your cows!!! They're so cute and they deserve it 🥰
Yes, but it will make her happy. And a happy cow is ... well ... a happy cow. ;)
Don't you dare talk about eating Peppa
There's starving kids in China. Eat your food. Reply. Well put the food in an envelope and send it to them. 😂😂😂
Starving children in
Still starving if I eat the food.
Allan Sherman did a funny spoken-word piece about the "clean your plate because there are starving people in China" exhortation. He said words to the effect of, "So I cleaned my plate. Four, five, six times a day. But the people kept starving and I got fat."
He finished up with, "Hail to thee, fat person! You kept us out of war!"
You only touched on Nikolai Vavilov, who was Lysenko's teacher, and actually a very good biologist.
Vavilov set up seed banks, and one was in Leningrad, where biologists fought to save the seeds from starving citizens.
He died because of Lysenko, his own student. It took years for his legacy to be recognized by the Soviet State. Thanks to Khrushchev, he's now recognized as a hero of the Soviet Union.
Speaking of which, several Soviet soldiers gave their lives to defend the seed bank during the Siege of Leningrad, refusing to eat the seeds even when the city faced starvation.
Hey Joe, the poster on your wall says "Relax on Kepler 16B" -- what is it form?
I figured it must have been the cover art and title for an old ambient music album, so looked it up on CZcams and only found a single, very bizarre video under that same title, with no explanation, very few views and 0 comments. Can you explain? Lmao
Anthony FauxChi: "hold my beer"
To the editor: The background music makes it so that i can hardly understand Joe at times.
It is kinda on top isn't it 👂🏻👍🏻
Just wrote the same, sorry, didn’t see your post… 😂
On my phone it isn't that bad... If your on a computer turn down your bass maybe.... But yeah it's just the worst when videos are like that.
Also discussing a crazy amount of deaths with background elevator music makes my soul itch.
Sorry Joe, I really don't like the background music. Super distracting.
I think Thomas Midgley, of leaded gas and CFCs fame, is a strong contender for being worse. Some estimates put his death toll as high as 100 million. And who knows what else he may have come up with if he didn't end up being done in by another of his own inventions, a pulley system designed to help him get out of bed.
Yeah, I don't want to defend either Midgley or Lysenko, but I think it's worth pointing out that neither of them were in such a position of power that they can be held up as the singular cause of the mass deaths. For Lysenko, it's Stalin, Mao, and Communism in general. For Midgley, it's the various industry execs and politicians who greenlit his inventions. But even if you only allocate them 1% of the responsibility for the impact, being personally responsible for 1M deaths is a hell of a thing.
At least his inventions worked.
I was going to say exactly the same thing. I wasn't sure of the estimated deaths but know it will be high 👍
Veristasium video right? And it was also a great video on the same topic
@@jon_j__I was going to say this exact thing, but probably less eloquently. We shouldn’t say they weren’t terrible, they were, just that it’s only partially their fault. You need poor leadership and poor ideas to get these types of tragedies.
Fantastic as usual, but Is it me or is the occasional background music really loud ?
i thought i was the only one was looking for a comment like this
He definitely wins his place in the Pantheon of bad scientists alongside Thomas Midgley jr (leaded fuel and CFC's)
There’s a story from Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago, where a worker was given a Communist party award for his hard labor. When asked how he felt about his award, he joked that a little more food would be better than an award.
He was immediately charged with an Article 58 violation and given a 10 year sentence of hard labor.
you don’t make jokes to guards if you’re in the gulag, even if they give you an award
Lmao "Archipelago" was proven to be a collection of fictional tales time and time again.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 The main things about his works that've been debunked with a high degree of certainty are the wildly exaggerated numbers.
Everything else is anybody's game as Soviet Russia, especially of those times, is not very well documented -- as far as anyone without access to Russia's historical archives could possibly know. Also, the Gulag Archipelago resonated with former Gulag inmates immensely, to the point where they couldn't distinguish their lives from what was written there.
If *even* a fraction of what Solzhenitsyn wrote is true it is still enough to condemn the barbarity of the Soviet judicial system, the Gulags, the mentally that led to them, and much more.
@@deptusmechanikus7362 Because you saw a snarky youtube video saying just that. So now it's your unqualified retort to whoever brings it up. Well done. I think most people who talk about it haven't read it, and admittedly it's a bit of a slog and it's easy to put down and not pick up again. Much easier to pretend. Cut and paste opinions, can't beat em. Cheers.
@@deptusmechanikus7362what do you mean by that?
Hi Joe, this is a great video. A bit of feedback, the background music is so loud that it's hard to know what you say several times in the video. I hope it's an easy fix that will improve its enjoyment. It's great information that deserves to be heard! I love your videos!!!
I don't remember it having been distracting before this video, but I didn't even finish listening to this one. It isn't just people who have some hearing loss or older people who have trouble with certain tones, it's also difficult a lot of neurodiverse people who can feel like their attention is being pulled in different directions.
Probably AI generated vid they are more often than you realize
Maybe it's cuz I was watching on my TV but it was actually too quiet for me, and not in a good way either. I kept pausing the video because I couldn't figure out where the distant ominous music was coming from and thinking I was going crazy. I don't remember any other of his videos having bg music and i feel that it better matches the style of the videos.
also came here to say this, the intro music was also weirdly mixed loud
I came here to say this. It's a combination of several things: Joe's voice volume is too dynamic, the music is too loud, and the script goes too fast to understand the generated subtitles with the picture. I have conductive hearing loss, which means speech is difficult to hear if there is other noise present. I'm listening on good headphones. This is the first video from Joe that has given me these issues though. Thank you!
I like the new direction of you channel, keeping an eye out for the next one. Keep digging deep Joe.
"Starving kids in Africa" is still one of my favorite growing up memes. Pretty sure I only heard it on TV, but it was very prevalent.
I thought that the guy who came up with the idea to put lead in gasoline was worst. That caused some pretty serious issues too. My parents always said that it was starving kids in Africa. Which was also true.
So, the real lesson here is:
1. Profit, without regard to consequences, is bad
2. Socialism is bad.
It's almost like they're both "extreme" and the right way is somewhere in the middle?
🤔
[Edit: clarify language on point 1.]
I thought the video was going to be about him, but looking back on that idea I don't think leaded gas or his other chemicals killed as many people in as little time as lysenkoism.
@@12pentaborane Thomas midgley Jr.. put lead in petrol and wait for it... invented freon for fridges.. or CFC's.... bloke probably killed more in cancer rates over time ...
@@edwardcullen1739You'd be correct if the Soviet Union was socialist... but it was authoritarian state capitalism masquerading as socialism, the same as China is today.. and Russia is still ..
@@edwardcullen1739 it's almost like that's the false choice put forward by this video
I'm pretty sure the phrase "starving kids in africa" was more popular. My parents said that all the time but it was also said a lot in movies and tv shows. This is the first time ive ever heard of the phrase "starving kids from china"
Yeah, don't let my CZcams name fool you, it was always starving in Africa for me growing up :)
China was the typical trope for alleged starvation until the 1980s when popular culture shifted attention to the struggles of Africa. For those of us who grew up at a certain time, China was more commonly used as an example of government gone wrong. So while Africa was probably used more during your generation, it was more common to mention China from the 50s through the mid 1980s.
@@VoodooCosmonaut yup. For me it was always China. I grew up in the 70s.
Grew up in the 70s, it was always China. @@VoodooCosmonaut
Me too. However, barring a progressive change, I forsee a day soon when the appropriate idiom will be "Eat your dinner, there are starving kids in Britain who would kill for that". I wish that was just a humourous exaggeration.
We shouldn’t call people “scientists” if they don’t do science.
@JoeScott Did you get a different editor? @2:20 the background music starts and it's so loud it's hard for me to hear you. I've got a hearing disorder so hearing someone talk over almost any noise that is equally loud to their voice is almost impossible, it just gets jumbled together.
Feedback for the audio:
The threatening soundtrack used when Stalin was presented was too loud compared to your voice. Later the optimistic audio track when presenting the scientist felt misplaced, because of the context of this scientist causing so much death. The first point is about audio mastering, the second is about audio track choice...
I fully agree, it was distracting both times. Other than that I love the video as with all your content!
I also noticed the past few videos Joe’s voice has been kinda echoey or something. Not a dealbreaker but definitely distracting.
turn that atmospheric track during Stalin down like 4db LMFAO
To Joe: There wasn't any problem with your videos without the music. IMO the music is just disturbing. Still, apart from the melodic bit your vids are great.😊
Yep, my thoughts exactly. Doesn't really need the music at all.
Love ya Joe.
The background music however is distracting, not working for me. Especially ominous Stalin music. I like the idea but it's better just letting us here you speak man!
Thanks appreciate all your vids!
"Finish your plate - there are starving kids in China." "Great, now I'm uncomfortably full and feeling vaguely guilty that I've injured people I've never met."
I’ve known about Lysenko causing the famines for awhile, but I didn’t know just how crazy his ideas were. Yikes.
For me it was my maternal grandmother and it was Ethiopia.
I also believe this verbal abuse led directly to eating more than my fill and ignoring my body's signals that it was full and done eating and that uncomfortably-overfull feeling was normal which led to me being at least 100lbs overweight as a teen and Type-II Diabetes as early as my 30s and me struggling to manage my A1C and loose weight in my 40s.
I've just added a similar comment. I developed food issues and went on crazy diets with punishing exercise routines that ended up helping to further damage my joints (since I was already a gardener and didn't need the extra exercise).
I never heard of this guy before, but I do remember my mother saying "Think of the starving kids in China". Never knew that there was such a horrible famine there. I grew up hearing of the communist purges, but not the famines. The only famine I ever heard spoken of was the Potato Famine in Ireland.
@thomascreeden9650 The famines in Asia were overwhelmingly the result of Western and of British policy. In India alone, Dr. Gideon Polya in Countercurrents estimates that from 1765 through 1938 the British killed 1.8 billion (with a "b") Indians while reducing India's share of global GDP from 25% to 4%.
If you're GenX or elder Millennial maybe your parents got the line from "A Christmas Story?"
@@johnstrawb3521 Weird that you're claiming billions of people died when the world population at the time was barely 3 billion. It didn't start ballooning until the discovery of penicillin and the invention of Vaccines. Not disputing that the British killed millions of people during colonialization.... just that you're hyper inflating the facts to make a what-aboutism.
To answer Thomas' question. You don't hear about it because the current Government in China intentionally downplays the communist famines as it hurts their feel goods to admit that Communism failed its own people that hard. They still celebrate Mao in China and any failings that man made are downplayed or censored outright. As China extended its influence overseas it actively sought to minimize these facts and histories from being recounted. As a result its not taught with any major depth or detail in a lot of places. Rather it gets glossed over if it's mentioned at all. In much the same way the US massacres in the Philippines, Koreas and even at home against black and Native Americans, tends to get lost in the education system. It's not that any of these events are denied. It's just not looked at or scrutinized strongly to protect those individuals and power structures that ultimately depend on people not looking too deeply at things.
@@johnstrawb3521the Chinese famine was entirely China's fault.
We're fixing to learn a lot about famine.
It's like appointing a Flat Earther to head up NASA.
"Trust the experts," said the Lysenkoist kommissar to the farmer.
I’m from Brazil and my parents would say this about starving children in Africa. But what is more sad is that there were children in food insecurity back home. :(
Yes and there were and still are areas with food insecurity in the US. I will say I've had Brazilian food and I think it's delicious.
My parents would always say there were starving kids in Africa. I actually found out about China's Great Famine earlier this year. I made a video about it, focusing on the killing, and near extinction, of the sparrows, which was another contributing factor. And, because I'm a wildlife guy, I liked that angle.
Awesome video, Joe.
Thank you for your comment. I just watched it and it was really interesting. I am looking forward to see the rest of your videos aout happier topics :)
@@hafor2846 Thank you so much! I really appreciate that.
Me with the DHL envelope, saying, "Yeah mom, you're right, gimme an address!"
An official stance held by government experts and if you question it you're considered an enemy of the state?
Nah, couldn't happen these days.
His approach to science seems very like that of Ancel Keys. And yeah, growing up in England in the 60's, we had to eat everything on our plate because children were starving in Africa. I told my parents they could send what I didn't eat to Africa, but I got a smack on the head and got sent to bed for suggesting it. I suspect I only suggested it once.
Thanks for the Keys reference. Arguably, Keys' negative impact on nutrition persists to this day. 12 servings of grain a day = diabetes, obesity, mental illness, and cancer galore.
@@henrytang2203 Unfortunately, that appears to be the case.
Superb explanation of Lamarckism. I remember learning about this in JHS. Supposedly the story goes, he was getting his horse reshoed when he noticed the 4-5 year old son of the blacksmith was very muscular. Rather than realising that this was the result of the boy working the forge with his father, Lamarck came up with his "theory".
There are lots of stories bumping around about Lamarck and his theories, but it doesn't actually seem like Lamarckism was actually HIS theory. As in, he's not the one who came up with it. It now looks like that the basic premise was developed by someone else, whose name is now lost to history. Lamarck heard about it, liked it, and added it to a book he was writing, and maybe included a few additional speculations of his own to flesh out the idea. That book, which was targeted at lay audiences, became something of a fad at the time, almost like Hawking's "A Brief History of Time" which resulted in the theory getting popularized, and Lamarck's name getting attached to it.
The thing is, Lamarck isn't totally wrong. We know about eqigenetics now. We also know individual specimen actually do adapt in certain ways to external stimuli, like food supply. But going from there to assumig how you can force those changes onto plants without going through the research of finding out if and how they will react to the specific stimuli you want to expose them to? Not to speak of the narrow-mindedness with which Lysenko assumed it could be only the one or the other. Two things can be true at the same time. And then you'd have an even harder job figuring out which effect, if any, is the dominant one.
@@Volkbrecht That would be ePigenetics...
When your head scientist not only isn’t a scientist, but doesn’t even believe in science… only in Soviet Russia
Or in modern Fascist Russia.
Whenever I heard that line, I said, "Oh, so can we send it Airmail" ? !!!
As a decendant of one of those 'kulaks', I still remember my grandfather tell the story of how he and his siblings ate grass and stole eggs to survive after their farm was taken away and they became homeless. Since we're of german decent, we were then declared 'enemy of the state' and banned to gulags in central asia.
After reading a bunch of the comments, and knowing WHEN the Chinese famine occurred, I would suggest that the reason more people in modern times say "in Africa" is simple - the famine in Ethiopia was very public and much more recent.
The scary thing is that Trofum could become popular with people in the west and other areas as well; simply because of the distrust in good science that is growing again.
Was going to say the same thing, yeah. Later generations after that it was always 'africa'
Yes, the famine in China was almost unknown in the West until 20 years or so later. I first heard of it on some TV show where one or two Americans were asking why so many truckloads of food were being sent to South China.
Lysenkoism is alive and well in the West but it no longer has a name and is not talked about. It's an assumption that's one of the bases of some political systems. Assumptions are never questioned or acknowledged in politics. It is no longer considered science - it's a tenet of faith.
Yes, I know I'm conflating science, religion, and politics. That's what it looks like to me: They're converging.
@@neilreynolds3858 Conflate away. To try and separate the three in the mind of the average individual is a fools errand.
Coincidentally, Ethiopia in the 80s was also an ally of the Soviet Union, as it was run by a communist military junta. One/The ONLY key difference between far-right policy and far-left policy is that the far-right mould their ideology around an idea(ie the Nazis moulded their beliefs around Eugenics and the idea of an intellectual elite ruling the land via direct rule, the politics of the land are only governed by the ideas of the elite and the traditionally-minded, so to speak), whereas the far-left mould an idea around their ideology(ie Lysenkoism and the Great Leap Forward, where communists and socialists would mould any idea around their ideology, under the mindset, approach and premise that EVERYTHING must be and to that end, IS politicised and political). Furthermore, the reason why people distrust Science is thanks to its corporatisation and hyper-industrialisation. This has led to the rise of the Sackler Family and the greater Opioid Epidemic that began in the 1990s, as well as the ironically government-managed botching of COVID-19 in 2020. The rise of Social Justice and greater Far-Left beliefs within younger people especially online has led to a lot of Lysenkoist-adjacent beliefs and applications. It's why you hear idiots say "but Science DOES care about your feelings" and "Body Language is not reliable" or "x is a Social Construct".
@@DR3ADER1 Your comment was almost insightful but didn't quite get there. The political distortions of science in the USSR pretty much began and ended with Stalinism. Once he was out of the picture science mostly got back to normal. So, your "theories" about ideologies and science are not based on good information. Almost like you're moulding your idea around your ideology.
I don't understand:the people in some country ruin themselves, start being hungry and then,in another country, they tell you:"there are starving kids in..."
The funny thing being that there was a glimmer of truth to Lamarck's theory when epigenetics is taken into consideration.
This is why we need international research collaboration and peer review of research articles. Maybe it is time to make a video about the two weeks everyone thought the South Korean researchers had found a room temperature superconductor, which, after the experiments had been repeated by multiple international research groups, turned out to be a result of magnetism due to iron pollution in the sample.
Peer reviewed research-that’s how science works
Yes, and as your example makes clear, it’s just as needed in the so-called “hard” or “objective” fields of science. Errors, falsehoods, oversights, misinterpretations etc can always happen
Lysenko sounds like the kind of guy who would proudly proclaim to others "I am science!"
Pretty much. Fauci was also hilariously wrong about the origin of AIDS among other subjects - didn't stop him from gaining more and more powerful political positions, and being more and more blindly worshipped by people who claim to "follow science".
And then he scienced all over the place.
Yep.. parallels to Fauci for sure.
Fauci's predecessor. Remember, it was Fauci who bungled the AIDS crisis in the 80s.
Trust the science!
When my mom said that to me, I said, "You must cook for them, too."
I just started reading The Three-Body Problem and this rings a bell lol
Neither Lysenko himself, nor his ideas are in any way popularized, all his works are considered anti-scientific in Russia.
These stories about "Lysenko's popularity in Russia" are not new, they did not appear after the start of the war, they are already more than 6-7 years old, but I still have not seen a single example proving any popularity of his ideas among anyone in scientific circles or among the Russian authorities.
The last article about Lysenko in the Russian media, dated December 4, 2022, calls Lysenko a "charlatan and obscurantist".
Yes, i was very confused by this. Could not find anything related myself either. My guess is he is trying to sprinkle some "juicy" misinformation related to the current events in an attempt to increase the perceived appeal of the video.
That's a sin... I'd love to see orcs starving. Again.
He didn't say "All russians are Lysenko fans now", it's just what the lunatic fringe is doing.
@@JamesChurchill no, he said that lysenko "is presented as a hero to the russians" and that russia wants to shake science as the "bedrock of the western culture". This claim is at best a delusion and is honestly borderline dehumanizing. With his rhethoric and the putins picture attached, his implication, whether intentional or not, is that it is a state agenda.
And even if i were to assume your point corresponds to what he said in the video, i could not even find any fringe source. He should have provided one in the description like educational channels do, otherwise i have to assume he invented it.
@@Vova__ In Joe's defense, such articles about Lysenko have appeared many times in the press over the past 5 years, mainly in Radio Liberty and its affiliated media, so he just might have stumbled upon them.
I first learned of Lysenko just over 50 years ago in my mid teens while in High School. I've come to find that there are two broad categories of people. Those who are good examples and those who are bad. Much can be learned from the study of each type. Needless to say, the study of Lysenko's example tells us to beware when politics and science bed down together.
Yes- climate hysterics, wu-flu hysterics, lying gender hysterics etc. etc. they form what one might call "The Beast" system.
We didn't put them in bed together, we fund science through politics. It's basically the same system that the Soviets had.
@@neilreynolds3858 If by "we" you mean "Americans", then yes. Breaking news: America is not the only country in the world!
@@neilreynolds3858 Its not politics if a private company pays for it.
This was a case of BAD science though. But yes I agree, learn from both good and bad examples.
Thank you for covering this uncomfortable subject. Very nicely put together
I saw the photo in the thumbnail and went wait, that's not Thomas Midgley Jr.
I’m a longtime fan of your channel from Azerbaijan, a former Soviet Union country. Frankly speaking, I am impressed by the level of research and insights you got on Stalin-era Soviet Union. Very well done!
So are farmers allowed private farm ownership in Azerbaijan?
His rehabilitation is just another sign that the world is regressing when it comes to the general populations understanding and acceptance of science.
There's also the part about "science" becoming so politicized that nobody believes anything that a scientist says just like we can't believe anything a politician says. Since so much of "science" is funded by the state, it has become an arm of political parties. The only way to regain trust is to stop taking money from the sciencist-politicians who control the funding. We know that's not going to happen so "science" will not be trusted.
Political regression as well. Takes a horrendous worldview to glorify Lysenko as a defier of “Western” science rather than who he really was: a killer of colleagues and fellow countrymen.
It's not just the sciences where the world is regressing.
It's because people like comforting lies more than they like harsh truths.
The earth is in desperate need of some tough love.
@@_nebulousthoughts The ironic fact about that is that the only reason why we know this point about people choosing comfort over truth is thanks to Science and the findings produced by various psychological studies.
Grandparents survived a horrible famine on their time in Eastern Europe, and the saying was "it's better than grass", literarily they had to eat grass, weeds and apparently dandelion leaves were considered "nutritious", I can't imagine how you can even swallow those they are incredible bitter.
Also you had to attack Russia... lol.
I had a friend whose mother pulled that on him: "There are millions of starving children in China!"
He calmly responded, "Name one."
Loved the video, but the music was very loud at times which made it more difficult to follow what was being said. Not sure if that was just me but wanted to let you know!
Not just you. Sounds wrong.
Yeah, very off putting.
You're right. The background music was unnecessary.
Yeah, the music was very distracting in this video. Didn't fit and was often too loud.
Yeah, music was far too loud.
Hi Joe!
I got that same admonishment from my parents, and one day I replied: "Why do you just ship it to them?"
I got my ass beat and sent to my room for sassing.
Now I always finish what I am served whether I am still hungry or not.
All hail Zoe!
And while that attitude is understandable, it also contributes to the obesity epidemic. When food is scarce, it makes sense to eat as much as you can, but with abundant food that's extremely unhealthy.
Clean your plate culture directly fuels our obesity epidemic
Haha I was about 10 years old when my mom said "There are starving kids in Africa" and my response was "Yeah? Well why don't you ship this meal to them". She laughed and never used that guilt trip again.
i used to force myself to eat everything whenever i went out to eat because i overpaid for it directly. then i started realizing that it's not benefiting me at all and just making me miserable over something i should be enjoying. whether i throw it away or force myself to eat it and it turns to poop later, it doesn't affect ANYBODY but me
they actually got violent at your suggestion to help them.. because they arent europeans and we only help europeans....
Trofim was known to use "I am The Science ™" proclamation. Some things never change.
So Stalin was like the law firm Wolfram and Hart in the TV show Angel: when you were fired you were set on fire.
As a sort of sarcastic riff on that phrase my brother and I used to just say, "You better eat that. There's kids in China!" Leaving out whether they are or are not starving.
The Schrödinger's Chinese kids, who are in a superposition of starving and not starving
@@smoguli you'll never know unless you check. let's install surveillance cameras everywhere to make sure
Every time I see a friend waste food I tell them "kids in Africa could've eaten that plate"
There are still starving kids in China.
The government doesn't really look after people not in the cities.
Mom also whipped out the "starving kids in Africa" phrase and I honestly couldn't figure out why she wasn't giving my food to them instead of me.
Where's the ominous music knob? I want it turned up to 10 at random times in the video.
My mom’s parents said that to her. She said, “send it to them.” And she got slapped :-)