What the hell was Tom King's Batman?
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- čas přidán 30. 07. 2024
- Written by Tom King and illustrated by a plethora of artists, the first issue of this Batman run was published by DC Comics in August 2016. With the 85th and final issue being released in February of 2020. And Bruce Wayne has a death wish. With the arrival of two superpowered siblings declaring themselves to be the future of Gotham, Batman will have to figure out where his place in this new world is. And between an Arkham Uprising led by Bane, a war of both jokes and riddles, and Catwoman being there every step along the way, what will be left of the Dark Knight once all is said and done?
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00:00 - Intro
01:13 - Part One: #1-24
12:41 - Part Two: #25-49
25:14 - Part Three: #50-69
34:28 - Part Four #70-85
53:29 - Final Verdict
#DCComics #Batman #TomKing - Zábava
🐶🐶 WOOF WOOF! NEW VIDEO! 🚨🚨 One of the most divisive runs in recent comics history... And the biggest review I've ever done! Fair warning, some of you will hate this, but it's Tom King's Batman! 🦇📚🤯
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Hope you guys enjoy! I imagine this one will get some backlash, so if you enioy it, show it some love! ? Give it a like, subscribe if you're new, and share where you can!
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It started with the first and second issue mad dog when he had Batman body-slamming Solomon Grundy which who has Superman level strength first of all that was stupid but then he took away all the masculinity of Batman and had him just be punked by women all throughout his run He's just demasculized all the way through it One of the worst comic book runs I've ever read I can't believe they let him stay on there for 85 issues I've never understood the appeal of this guy I've never read one of his stories that I liked not one I don't understand it there's some other writers that people like that I don't really like but I do get the appeal of them like when I read them I'll be like I kind of see why people would like this even though I don't Tom King I have trouble just to find how anybody could think that's good writing pretty much anything he's done
This video covering King's run is more interesting than the run itself
I love how flashpoint batman was straight up character assassinated. Man that letter that flash gave to bruce was truly worthless huh. Like in hind sight reverse flash did absolutely nothing wrong when he tore it up to pieces.
Yeah, it was almost like a different character, such a bizzare move when he could've just used someone else 🤦♂️ thanks for watching though! 🐶
@@MaddoggComics you know a Canon batman story where Flashpoint batman and main Bruce just had father son bonding would have been awesome. Hell it doesn't have to be them crime fighting. Something as simple as playing catch or basketball. You don't even need to kill him of either. They could have let Flashpoint batman be a main stay in the bat family.
@@jonathanathor117 Not really Thomas Wayne from FP was always an alcoholic obsessed murderer who wanted control that never changes even with Barry's returned note or what they did in The Button. It also works for the Knightfall 2 motif they were going for another important factor was Jor EL as OZ was back against Superman and editorial wanted FP Thomas Wayne to be an obstacle for Bruce as well.
@@roboters100 man they ruined Jor el character also. Like why have be alive and also be dr Manhattan personal bitch
@@roboters100ok, but characters (should) have layers. Obsessed alcoholic murderers also have moments in which they act more human. Thomas Wayne would act more human around the son he changed for
i remember seeing tom king wanted to write 100 issues, im guessing dc editoral said no we're wrapping this up
I think sales dipped quite a bit after the wedding fake-out. Immortal Hulk was outselling Batman so editorial gave King the boot, though they did give him the Batman/Catwoman series to wrap things up.
@@InaDarkenedRoom281 I mean Immortal Hulk is a banger so it's not really surprising.
Immortal Hulk is a million times better than the last four Batman runs
The reason he wrapped his planned 100-issue run early was the invitation to work on Ava DuVernay's New Gods movie. Of course, that film was cancelled by the powers that be because it would have included Darkseid and he had already been claimed by Zack Snyder for the Justice League.
@@rory_pond1701 I totally forgot about that movie.
I legitimately cried at the scene with Catwoman and the kitten in the Batmobile.
I read that issue after the bat/cat book, and I was genuinely so moved by it as well.
I’m still unsure if I want to read this one, art looks consistent but the story sounds the opposite.
Its so odd because I can only say to give it a go, because its so all over the place. Maybe start with the arc after Monster Men, see if that's your style :) Hope you're doing well mate!
I really enjoyed War Of Jokes And Riddles and City Of Bane
Worth checking out for the great coloring
Thats dc run by jim lee pretty but disjointed
I ultimately borrowed it all from the library and then bought the volumes I liked, which was only the Rules of Engagement and Bride or Burglar.
I hated Gotham and Gotham Girl. I hated the whole Bruce's dad also being a Batman garbage. I really didn't care for this series at all and would be disappointment if I'd dropped a couple of hundred to collect it.
About the airplane going down in Gotham scenario: I like that Batman is immediately faced with an obstacle that he might not overcome, and it's not a death trap or a space laser. It's an airplane going down. He's literally attempting something Superman is famous for doing, and he's going to die because of it. Thats Batman af. But there's this unmistakable air of depression suffocating the whole thing.
The reason it's so jarring, and I think this matters for most if King's run, is because this is coming directly off of Snyder's run. Batman is basically brand new due to his body being healed by the Lazarus resin (or whatever it was called), and he was at a pretty good place mentally. And then King comes in and the mood immediately shifts darker, it feels inherently more hopeless, even as Batman does something as cool as surfing an airplane into the Gotham Bay. There is no buffer, and no reason why, it just feels so suffocatingly depressing.
I think the themes King explores are great, and though Bruces suicidal tendencies and depression often get touched on, rarely are they felt in such a raw fashion. It comes off the page in such a way that it you know the person that wrote it, and possibly the artist, has met their demons face to face, and maybe they aren't exactly winning. And that feeling never really goes away, even when there should be happiness. If anything it just gets heavier as it goes on.
If the biggest thing in your run is a failed edging session, you know you didn’t have a good run
King's run ultimately comes off as unimaginative, inconsistent and boring. I've always had a love-hate relationship with Finch's art, but will admit that I really liked it during their collaboration (although he really tried to invoke his inner Capullo).
King's strengths are his portrayals of characters through their relationships, e.g. Batman and Catwoman. But he really ran that one to the ground.
To be fair, it was really hard to follow Snyder and Capullo. That said, Tom was not the right guy to pass the torch to. Just not on the same level.
"his portrayals of characters through their relationships":
Examples:
Oh Bat. Oh, Cat. Oh Bat Cat. Oh Cat Bat. It was the ship. No it was the alley. Look at how hot we are. Oh Cat. Oh Bat.
I am Bane! But I am Batman! But I am Bane! Yeah, you know what? I am Batman!
Let's have Kite-man have a stupid catchphrase and then self-reference it repeatedly without it having a particular meaning, fun factor or anything.
@@suleymanbabak1973, oh, I agree 100%. The writing sucks.
I really liked the first arc! It went downhill every arc after that. I dont think King fully understood Batman as a character.
Maddogg I highly recommend you watch some King's interviews on his batrun. While it isn't my personal favourite, I felt he was robbed from telling the story he wanted to tell. Bane was supposed to be the final villain of "City of Bane". But editorial wanted flashpoint batman. They also didn't let Bruce marry Selina which was previously promised to him. Which was supposed to be the final culmination of his whole run. They also promised him 100 issues but instead was cut short, hence the ending felt rushed.
Yeah editorial meddling is a bitch but not every horrible thing in this run can be attributed to them, I remember special the issue dedicated to a silent chace beetwen Batman and the Joker was when I started wondering if this guy just wants to waste my time.
@@archeogeek315 Thats fair, silent issues are a gimmick. Personally I enjoyed the Nightmares arc more than the Joker Riddler war. I think its hard to be consistent the longer your run is. King had always thrived more on graphic novels format, which is why he wrote alot of short arcs in batman. You take the good with the bad.
That's a fair point, I just normally try to judge the book that's in front of me, because getting into the world of who is responsible for what can get messy and a bad book is still a bad book. But now I've done my review I might try find those interviews, just for my own context :) hope you enjoyed the video regardless 🐶
I am one of the people that overall likes this run, but it’s definitely very flawed and I think a lot of it can be attributed to editorial mandates and meddling. King certainly isn’t for everyone, so not all of the issues can be wrapped up to that “excuse” but there are a lot of examples of Didio and co getting involved and not letting king do things (like actually let Bruce and Selina get married).
I think King agreed with the failed marriage, maybe he proposed it.
Hell yeah another banger from the Maddogg! You love to see it
I think Kiteman being “Chuck Brown” is a reference to the Peanuts cartoon. In it, Charlie Brown is a lovable loser who can’t get his kite to fly (it always ends up in a tree). So perhaps he dedicates his life to kites and grows up to realize… that grown men who have nothing going for them other than an affinity for kites are still losers.
“Wah-wah-waah-waah!”
“Yes father, I will become a kite.”
I really enjoyed you working the sponsor in to Batman and Catwoman being in the EU! 😄
im glad im not the only one who thought similar i just recently got into batman comics, and man i was getting whiplash. the only thing that kept me reading was the possibility of of sleina becoming part of the family.
it's funny the exact same thing happened with black cat in spider-man where she got her own crew
I was following along in trades, I liked war of jokes and riddles the first time, left confused on rereads, and dropped it after the failed wedding. IMO, the thing that will probably outlive most of this run is "Kite Man, Hell yeah!" ironically or not. At least, that's what I'm going to be saying.
Honestly, i could not get passed i am suicide, i didnt like i am gotham but i hated i an suicide, and i dont think im gonna continue
Been eagerly waiting for your coverage on this one 👏🦇
Hope it was worth the wait mate, and thank you for the support!
Thanks for being so fair in this video. Everything else I’ve watched just dumps on this run. It’s got many problems, but there’s some real good too. ✨💎✨
What the hell was Tom King’s Batman run? The answer is shit
When Tom King worked in the CIA, he would torture prisoners by reading his comics 24/7 until they broke.
I love how his fan think he is some kind of tough guy. You know he never left his desk/office and that his wife probably had to go on the missions for him.
@@brianmurphy250 Tom King makes my skin crawl
I just don't really understand why everyone who gets the canon decides to make choices that would better fit a one-off graphic novel, changing long established lore/motivations in what is supposed to be the main book, knowing full well future writers may be forced to retcon their decisions. I hated his run, and not gonna lie, it kinda turned me off mainstream Batman to this day... Not that I like what the current writer is doing much better anyways. I can't remember the last time the main book felt like a detective story as opposed to a soap opera.
Only thing I remember fondly about Tom King Batman was that arc where Bruce in Jury duty. That was genuinely fascinating. And maybe the Jokes and Riddles Kite man stuff. Otherwise, I have erased a lot of it from my brain. I think this run might work better if you read it as a trade and not from issue to issue like I did as it came out.
art looks really great throughout. tempted to give this a try because i feel like I’ve let all the bad reviews inform my expectations a little too much which is why I haven’t read it yet
I really enjoyed this video, well done
Thank you mate, I was a bit burnt out after getting this one done, but it felt rewarding, so I might stick with this deeper type of review :) hope you are doing well mate!
@@MaddoggComics I can only imagine the amount of work you put into these. I have done my fair share of editing and feel your pain on the burning out sometimes.
It came out great overall and I really like how you approach it in sections and look and both pros and cons,rather than jumping to opinions.
Im doing good, as much as life will allow anyway. I hope you are good too.
I hope you do stick to this formula, at least for a bit and I look forward to your next video.
Tom King sucks. He gave Nightwing amnesia which resulted into some boring Ric Grayson stories, ruined og Wally West' return to the DC universe, and just wrote a bunch of depressed characters. The last good thing he wrote if I can recall was the Grayson series during New 52.
No defending Heroes in Crisis, but Ric Grayson was an editorial call, not King's. Ric Grayson was explicitly DiDio and Percy's brainchild.
I forgot to say this here you got yourself a new subscriber. Love your videos.
Thank you for the support and kind words! Should have a new big video out this week, a deep dive into the worst comic I ever read, so I hope you enjoy it! 🐶
Kite man!hell yeah!
Now I've watched the vid easily my favourite review so far. I think the longer format suits your channel better and pretty much agree with most criticisms u raised. Thomas Wayne does come back in Flashpoint beyond which I wouldn't mind u reviewing in the future. I think I was disappointed in Kings run because Snyder's prior was my favourite ever Bat run and the hype of King at the time was high.
I realized Tom King sucked at writing Batman when he had Batman tell Alfred to threaten a helpless villain at gunpoint to force him to use his power to instill fake courage in another character.
lol I love the title
It was the only one I could think of too haha, perfectly summarises my thoughts! Hope you enjoyed the video! 🐶
Nice review. If they release an omnibus, I'll give it a shot.
I need to finally get around to reading this. Thanks for the video!
I am also wondering if the entire button story would be collected in Williamson Flash omnis. They did not collect all the issues of Resurrection of Ghul in either Morrison Batman omnis or Dini detective omnis, but they did collect the entire cross over of night of the monster men story in the rise and fall of Batman omnis.
It's been a long time since I followed the main Batman title month to month, but I was following it during this run, and I remember a sort of hollow catharsis when the sales dipped under 100k for the first time since the New 52 started. What was the most frustrating part of the run was every time King showed he could write a good Batman, but then didn't.
I love these runs reviews
Hopefully more coming up in the future, thank you for the support!
I just can say about the complete run what i've said about the whole wedding-arc when it started:
I won't read it, until its finished and if they didnt pull through with it its a waste of time and money.
And of course they didnt.
Publishers are more afraid of change(and i mean real change, not something "new" they try for a year and went back to status quo afterwards).
I got to say I love David Finch's artwork, truly amazing to me 👍🏼
Definitely one of the highlights of this series! Thanks for watching the video mate!
Never liked this era but you know I’d buy a set of omnis if dc ever does one
I wanna try it but it DOES sound very inconsistent. Do love the art though. I tried to read #1 of Batman/Catwoman but it was so confusing. Maybe it's halfway through the real batman run, but all the past and future and stuff confused me so much
Writing this before watching the upload but Personally, the I am trilogy while had a few flaws were really solid. I was so excited for the WOJAR as it was a semi sequel to Zero year(a personal fav of mine). So disappointed, felt the Joker was written out of character. Wanted to see Deathstroke and Deadshot duke it out but never did. Hated the arc tbh.
while I own the majority of the run in trades never continued. I am planning on a big re read this year.
Quick question, how is Tyrant Wing or the Price? Are they essential to the run. I still need to buy them and they're currently oop? Thanks Maddogg👍
Hope you enjoy the video when you get round to watching it! :) A lot of our views line up, but the two you mention are definitely skippable, and so is the Button besides one aspect of it. Hope you're doing well mate! :)
I won't worry to much about picking those books up then. Cheers mate. 😁
I have the OHC of the Button and actually really enjoyed that one. Overall been feeling really good and positive in myself lately.
Good news Marcus, this month I'm a year Seizure free!!!
@@MaddoggComics
I don’t understand what he was trying to say or do
Tom King is one of the worst authors to ever write Batman, and one of the most overrated. His story is a level of rotten and mediocre similar to what Spider-Man goes through today.
It already starts that he can't interfere much in the chronology, so he builds a "marriage" between Batman and Catwoman which, look how cliché, is destroyed in the nick of time. There is the psychopathy of the idea that Batman Thomas Wayne returns from Flashpoint to stop his own "son" from being Batman, using force, teaming up with villains like Bane to do so. Doen't matter what kind of idea he was trying to pass in the comic, you just cannot to this, like Norman Osborn being an ally of Peter.
Another point is the terrible ability to write dialogue. The only way you can enjoy reading Tom King is if you are a zombie monkey, or you purposely read Tom King and make fun of the writing.
All the comics he wrote with Batman and Catwoman have the same lines:
*the two of them are running on rooftops
"Hey Cat, I need you"
"No bat. I need you"
...By the way a lot of great arts of David Finch or Mikel Janin...
"Cat. When I fall, you catch me"
"No, Bat. When I fall. You. Catch. Me"
And this continues with this stupid bullshit all over the 80 issues of his run
Personally I don't hate the Wells Spider-Man run like many others, its just so inconsistent and annoying at times. first trade was so good, then issue 900 was without doubt the worst anniversary issue I've read for the character. The Vulture arc was good then downhill from there imo.
I do actually like JR JR art still. Saying that I'm not picking up anymore trades which as a big Spider-Man guy hurts. I only have limited space and budget and with 2024 is killing the wallet. Something has gotta give and his run is like 80% filler.
Hard disagree with this take, guess I'm a zombie monkey
@@alwaysaninstigator Tom King is one of the few cases in fiction where if I see a person saying that that they like his work, I automatically know that person has poor taste.
@kevintanza6968 only a Sith deals in absolutes
@@alwaysaninstigatorA statement which, itself, is an absolute. 😏
i wish they would have just let cat and batman be together. but i guess i have the wayne family adventures webtoon for that kinda wholesomeness
Same here, would've felt like a true progression for Bruce, but apparently editorial staff didn't want it, so who knows what could have been! Thanks for watching the video mate!
I think King works best in short bursts. Some of his run was definitely hurt by editorial mandate, I'm sure he had no interest in the Night of the Monsters stuff and just had to include that for event tie-in sake, probably same with the button. I could see some issue lengths being dictated by editorial as well to try and land things on the 50th/100th issue. But that only goes so far.
A lot of the best issues were the shorter arcs or the one-offs. I remember enjoying the WW arc (I think it was only two issues) and the solo Swamp Thing issue was phenomenal.
I think King was really motivated and liked the idea of War of Jokes and Riddles, and...it wasn't awful, but again, an example of King being good in small bursts. It really had nothing to do with the rest of the run and would have worked better as a separate miniseries. Same with Gotham/Gotham Girl.
It felt like the actual arc should have started with Bane, had some downtime for the smaller issues/giving Bruce and Selina and the supporting cast a chance to interact, interspersed with the little stories like WW and Swamp Thing, then finish off with Bane's return and conclude with Bruce and Selina either getting together/ending it (presumably together since I think that's what King originally wanted)
*Edit* to also give King a little credit...pulling off 100 issues is incredibly hard. And to subsequently take that credit away, he of all people should know that and shouldn't have tried to negotiate for that. Even with editorial mandated tie-ins and them cutting his run short, he just didn't have enough material to reach 100 and it felt like he was only trying to stick it out just to hit milestone numbers.
Maybe with a moment with Catwoman and Talia pulls up like in comics
This is pretty cool content both video and Batman content
When Talia like in comics knew Bruce as medic in war and maybe the moves he fathe taught her which maybe Bruce teach to Catwoman and maybe Talia smirks
Talia and Catwoman cool!
Apparently up until the day of the wedding is good plus the stuff with KGBeast is all you need. I WISH I'd never read City of Bane and I was honored to have had the big moment spoiled by none other than Chuck Dixon since we were facebook friends LOL
Oof, who'd have thought that the hottest take on this video would've been someone willingly admitting to internet friendship with Chuck Dixon in 2024?
@@alwaysaninstigator That sounds like a compliment if you ask me.
@alwaysaninstigator you mean the most prolific writer in all of comics in terms of page count even beating out Roy Thomas and Stan Lee? Pretty damn awesome. 👌🏻
The john slander is crazy
Gotham Man and Girl should have been in the Superman book. It makes no sense for Batman to have Superman esque characters in Gotham. At least Superman would have a new rival to fight and have an ally with.
I do agree about the weird structure of the events. I Am Bane should have started it, then I Am Suicide, then City of Bane
I do hate how much of a waste the Designer was. Such a cool look and should have been a big new villain. Maybe even have Designer be the main victim in Joker War.
Can you do a video about where to start venom?
I'll add it to the list! Thanks for watching the video mate! 🐶
The war of jokes and riddles was the only bright spot in the run. Also kings idea for alfreds death was for clayface to take his spot for a fakeout death but dan didio in his infinite idiocy said to kill alfred because angry fans buy comics as weve seen with shitty Spider-Man comics being top sellers for like 20 years now
His run started out strong enough, and I admit the David Finch and Ivan Reis art helped a lot, but poster Riddler/Joker war, you can skip it.
Not watched the video yet, but that was the first proper DC/marvel run I ever read. I think not knowing much of the characters properly and a lot of the history etc meant I didn't have much to go on and have lot of the annoyances others seem to have, so I quite enjoyed it overall. Definetly seems a lot more hated than liked online.
Worst modern Batman run of all times. Was terrible in every sense.
28:15 Not to be a nitpicker, but I really hate this discussion between Batman and Nightwing- since King seems to treat the Pre/Post Crisis Universe as canon to his Batman/Heroes in Crisis runs, Dick Grayson is the absolute last person that would be confused by Crazy Quilt's gimmick. Dekker was one of Robin's archenemies, for crying out loud. Robin's the reason Crazy Quilt was re-blinded after getting surgery to fix his condition.
I blame dc editorial for failure of this run
Thats why i hated tom kings run, the repetition and the mirroring and saying the same thing over and over and it gets so annoying oh my god
Lee Weeks is the best
I will never buy another Tom King book. He made Batman a joke.
Sheer PROPAGANDA!
> To anwser your question; _Tom King's_ Batman run was sorry AF Propaganda (lies, letdowns & false hope).
> Solid _#1_ ish though (A hard thing to do w/ an old Flagship character), w/ the _David Finch_ art, but it all went downhill from there.
tom kings run was the first run i read and i love it
I'm glad you enjoyed it, it's a very divisive run but not a completely useless one, hope it also led you to other titles too!
It was no where as bad as No Man's Land though
I understand that higher ups decided that Alfred should die, but I can’t forgive Tom King for making it Damian’s fault
Grant Morrison's run on Batman was, is and always will be my cup of tea. Snyder's run went downhill after the Court of Owls saga and King's just sucks. It was the most pretencious run I've ever read. Thankfully I stopped after the Knightmares arc. It was pretencious because King just made being happy in life Batman's worst nightmare, Bane and Flashpoint Thomas Wayne make him miserable, there was a wedding that did not happen and, by God, the Riddler/Joker war just shat on the "show, don't tell" rule. And because of this, I Will not read any comic written by Tom King in my life.
Well, sorry about the rant, but excellent video.
I'm revisiting Morrison's Batman later this year, so hopefully I will share your sentiments! Thanks for the kind words, and for watching the video!
Tom King is the first batman run to stand out to me as awful. Garbage. He can write well. He chooses not to.
His writing is inherently sh*t in every comic book he has touched; it's not that he chooses to write bad, he simply didn't put the extra effort to get away with it on the Batman run, but people are oblivious to this because his style is appealing to readers who like melodramas, "character deconstruction" and soap operas. It's an explanation on why so many people like his take on Vision and Mr Miracle (needless to say that these are not A-list characters in terms of popularity so there isn't a huge backlash to the mischaracterization going on). Unfortunately for King, his abominable and insulting style of writing stands out like a wildfire on Batman, because his style is incompatible with the tone and long legacy of the character.
If you're dumb for not understanding some of this run then so am I. No you're not alone!
Haha, thank you mate, I just know sometimes I gloss over key information in the book 😂 cheers for the support though, and hope you enjoyed the video! 🐶
@@MaddoggComics I always enjoy your videos!
@@MikeOrtego Thank you mate, I'm working on a HUGE one at the moment, may take me a few weeks because it is Mayhem hahaha!
the story was randomized af alot of was a guessing game. while reading the damn comic and at the end just showed that the entire run was a complete waste of time and the marriage with catwoman was a bait and switch at the last minute after making this whole thing a big issue never really happened at all. tom king is a hack but the comic that i did enjoy is James Tynion IV's the dark design that handles catwoman and batman's relationship a trillion times better than whatever tf tom king was doing this comic was and still my cure from reading tom king's trash.
He's not the goddamn batman though
began reading with an open mind and slowly started to lose interest. batman just didn’t feel like the same character for me. while the series does have some great moments, i feel they are outweighed by the other nonsense that occurs
I wasn't a fan of tom king batman run to its ending in my opinion.
What it was? It was a complete waste of time, just garbage. U can even see it by the end of the run he was getting frustrated and did some bs.
Phenomenal art by the artists on this run. They definitely earned the money on this one. The writing is dogshit.
Use that paragraph to describe every single Tom King series.
The mystery factor is so annoying, DC always tries to add it to every book. I don’t care about being a detective and looking for clues trying to solve anything… it’s annoying.
While correct it’s pretty clear that you’re a dc slanderer
I'll tell you what it was it was the worst Batman run of all time and I mean that I'm a huge Batman fan it made me quit buying DC comics well I already quit mine marvel right now all I buy is back issues of marvel and DC but that pretty much chased me away he destroyed my favorite character I own every Batman comic since 1984 and detective I have both of them all the way up to about two or three years ago when I stopped because of Mr King a real piece of crap Harley Quinn beating up Batman Batman regularly being pumped by women they're demasculizing him making him some soy boy Tom King is not even a man