Electric Cars: Fatally Flawed?
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2021
- The world is going electric , but are electric cars that good? It are they flawed from the outset? Rory explores the reasons not to buy… and suggests reasons maybe you should.
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The more I watch this guy's videos the more I become envious of his speaking skill. He can be a great teacher, a top class salesman or a sort after lawyer. Keep the good work going Rory. 👍
Never an um or argh, he's a class act for sure!
Hi we think he's at the top in motor journalism
He will be the best of the top gear bunch going forward, as he has stuck to automotive stuff..
I honestly don't understand why he doesn't get a million views for each video.
@@dgg7377 that’s generally everyone on TV. No?
Good video but I think you missed a couple of really important points. EV batteries are only just being replaced as they last longer than was initially expected. They are replaced because the range reduction has become unacceptable, but the old batteries still have value in power storage where their reduced capacity is less of an issue. This can then last for 15+ years before they degrade too far. And then they can be almost 100% recycled. There are companies doing this.
The pumping and refining of petrol and diesel uses huge amounts of electricity which are conveniently ignored by those who are anti EV - if this is produced from CO2 heavy sources then it also needs to be factored into the carbon footprint. We also can't ignore oil spillage and the resulting environmental damage that happens every day.
Volkswagen are recycling older EV batteries in their purpose built plant in Germany. I understand they plan other battery recycling facilities elsewhere too. A UK company - Technology Minerals - is also looking to move into EV battery recycling in the near future. The company is fronted by the brother of Martin Brundle, the former F1 driver, and they plan to open 5 recycling sites in the UK.
How did Rory get removd from Top Gear?!?! the mind boggles with the BBC sometimes, THIS is the information TG needs to be providing, I enjoy the tom foolery of the (not so good as Clarkson/Hammond/May) trio we now have but not all the bloody time.
The BBC is no longer reputable but WOKE, purveying lies & distortion as 'news' along with the rest of the media, government and academia. Pandering to Islam is the prime example of this but there are many others.
Those of us who migrated many years ago look back on the time when Britain really was a free democratic nation; now she is the laughing stock of the world.
The BBC is the Government's 'Ministry of Truth' which must be replaced as part of the process of destroying sickening WOKE culture.
Not white enough
I mean he is here on auto trader probably took the better contract 🤷
Men behaving like schoolboys loses it appeal very quickly. Rory tells me things I want to know about cars in a super competent and relatable manner.
No one will ever be as good as Clarkson/Hammond/May.
Missed one thing about batteries - 2nd life use before recycling. but overall a good informative video. Shame Phone and Computer companies don't get any grief for not setting up recycling a decade (or more) ago for their lithium batteries but EVs get all the grief.
How many phone batteries can be made out of 1 electric car battery? When we fully change to electric vehicles phones and laptops will make not even 5% of lithium used.
@@themarenda just think how many phones with lithium batteries have been made since late 1980s and even worse that now they are not removable form the phone without taking it to a shop. Don't look at the phone in your hand and think its a little bit, this year alone their at nearly 5 billion mobile phone users
@@rtfazeberdee3519 and there will be 2 billion car users with 500 pound batteries, i know there are alot of phone batteries but that waste is going to be many times bigger with electric cars. And phones have lithium batteries since cca 2000, before that phones were huge and heavy mostly due to nickel batteries, but amount of mobile phones back then makes it insignificant for todays numbers
@@themarenda By the time there are 2 billlion EVs on the planet, recycling will be very advanced and we'd be closer to a circular market. EV batteries last a lot longer and go to 2nd use before even getting to recycling so the life cycle is long. Recycling processes for batteries could have been 20 years more advanced if the phone/computer companies etc got their fingers out and started it. Getting all environmental about it now because EVs use it is like throwing stones in a glass house since no-one cared about it before.
@@rtfazeberdee3519Thats the point of this video to think today about problems of tommorrow, EU is going full electric by 2035, i hope you're right about recycling
Well reasoned, well considered, thought provoking and articulately presented arguments. I like this guy!
Me too man!
yep, I made the swap from ICE to electric (M6 to Model S), and he's spot-on
naaaa
Yer great bloke to watch.
top gear messed up by getting rid of him from the show.
Remember to consider that the majority of Cobalt mined is actually not used in battery production. Its used as a catalyst to clean up petrochemical fuels, where its consumed forever, meaning more needs mined. But what is used in batteries can be recovered when recycling them. Also Lithium can and is extracted from sea water. No reason why that "waste" water couldn't be cleaner after the extraction process. Yup EVs aren't for everyone, but they are a viable option for many.
And Tesla has developed cobalt free batteries. They’re literally months away from mass production in their 4680 battery cells, and Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP Tesla batteries made by CATL don’t require cobalt presently.
Yes let's destroy billions of dollars in buildings(petrol stations, workshops small wreaking yards etc) and peoples jobs (all types of mechanic's,tanker drivers,etc) and only a few out of 1,000 electricians know how to safety operate on a ev battery most people on a dummy test would have died all I can see happening is the creative/passionate people making/buying bio fuel's keeping there old M3s to Mustangs to Nissan gtr's going then the people that can't afford wasting time charging so they go to hydrogen then the city people with fuel EVs like someone said everything has its place and everything servers a different purpose for different reasons. I imagine Every town/city and country will be different since every person is different they will choose a different car to suit them individuals and businesses alike
@@holden2260 With this aggression sounds like you must be an American who is passionate for V8 Trucks who are unecessary/cluncky/loud but yet high cultural thing. :D
@@skytehpanda no a Holden commodore Ute owner 😁
Completely inaccurate to the reality of lithium mining. It is incredibly damaging to the environment and anything that says lithium mines create clean water is laughable.
The entire process lays waste to millions of acres, is highly toxic and very dangerous. Politically, since the majority of it is controlled by China, it's a human rights as well as economic hotbed.
The fact is that battery production and recycling is a major problem that needs to be overcome. Half truths won't get us there.
Don't agree with the running costs. What do you think they're going to tax once petrol is obsolete? Huge increase in duty/tax on electricity once the population is reliant on it.
Micro tolls perhaps, a car tax according to milage perhaps.. but increased electricity charges are a no no.. VAT is currently 5% and it could go up but it would be a vote loser.. and you could just buy solar panels and make you own fuel.
Alternatively they could just increase general taxation to fill the hole
No, it won't go onto electricity because it can't. It would wreck the economy. It would put almost every business out of action. A system of road tolls will replace fuel duty once the point is reached where there are more EV's on the roads. Road tolls will apply to ALL vehicles, not just electric cars.
On that point about one country producing less pollution than another, it's also important to remember that the big polluters like China and India are only doing that because of the crazy amount of stuff they are making that we buy from them in the west!
Absolutely, so the West has to now force those countries to reduce their carbon emissions, but we know they won’t because they benefit from these other countries ain’t it?
you transport your polluting industries to the poor countries and pontificate how they "pollute" more. Shame on your ilk who not only have much, much higher historical emissions but also much, much higher per capita emissions right now.
In spite of all the polluting industries shipped there, the per capita emissions of those nations are way lower than the western world's. An average western human is far more damaging to the earth.
People like to bash on China for being such a heavy polluter (which they are) what a lot of people dont know is that China is heavily focused on renewables and a sustainable future. They are pouring lots of money into this area. More so than any other country at the moment.
True. We are indirectly doing the pollution ourselves.
Worth mentioning that the EV will use the energy from the power grid far more efficiently (motors are 90%+ efficient vs engines at 30%) so even if you're charging on coal power you still save emissions
😂😂😂 At least try doing some research . 90 + % efficient 😂😂😂
@@Mizzkan I said the motor, not the whole car.
@@matthewwatt2295 Modern petrol engines are around 45% efficient. There's huge inefficiencies in our power grid, lots of energy is lost through joule heating in transmission lines and also through the process of AC-DC-AC conversion and voltage step up/down. The difference in carbon footprint between coal powered electricity used for EV and petrol cars is surprisingly small but you can't ignore the fact that most electricity in the UK comes from cleaner sources such as gas, nuclear, wind, hydro and solar
@@stevec6427 Modern petrol engines are up to 40% (Toyota claims their engines are 41%) but only under certain loads and engine speed scenarios. So mostly still very inefficient. No petrol engine can be as efficient as an electric motor, mainly because the petrol engine converts most of the energy from the gasoline into heat.
@@Mizzkan you suggesting Matthew Watt is materially wrong?
Please provide workings to prove your point. Not just derisive emojis.
I own a 2012 EV from new. It has leather seats, sat nav, A/C etc...
I have covered 80,000 miles.
No road tax.
£130 services every 18,000 miles.
Has never broken down or gone wrong.
Only does 100 miles range, but this hasn't been an issue.
I charge at work for free with my free charger.
I have owned 100 vehicles and hands down this is the best I have owned.
What is needed is a new sub £15k EV that can can carry 4 people with a 150 miles range. Not £50k EV SUVs.
Quote: "What is needed is a new sub £15k EV that can can carry 4 people with a 150 miles range. Not £50k EV SUVs."
Boom! Nailed it! The most spot-on post in this entire thread. Well said, BIG JIM!
Rory's the best, even uses a green screen so that he can stand in front of a blue one LOL
Blue is autotrader color 😁
I agree that, on the long run, EV's are less expensive then ICE, but a lot of people cannot spent an extra 6 to 10000 pounds/euros at once to get the EV one
2 tier system again. The haves and have-nots.
No they are not. "Cheaper" if the government (other people) subside your car. Then you charge in a supercharger for free (that other people pay for that). And there is no residual value vo EV car after 15 years.
Most people, at least in the UK, buy their cars on finance. I've just purchased a small BEV and the difference between the monthly payments between ICE and EV is offset by my monthly saving on fuel.
Total cost of ownership will likely work out lower for me over the next 3 years and my upfront cost is no higher. Just my 2 cents.
So buy a used one. They cost less. There are EV specific dealers around now....
Didn’t think about the residial value. Good point.
I didn't expect that. A well balanced video that talks honestly about EVs. Excellent and well done!
Bravo, Rory. Excellent content, informative, timely, brilliantly presented. This is the sort of content that can actually make a real difference. More please
I love that Rory is educating the public (us) in such a non preachy way.
I love cars, but let’s be real. We all love nature a whole lot more and it’s worth protecting.
protecting? NOT IN MARXIST WAY
@@artureff3046 Marxism is having clean air that doesn't give you lung conditions.
Cobalt: The largest use of cobalt is to refine petrol / diesel - so if you're really worried about those kids mining cobalt in the DRC, you need to stop watching this sort of video and look at getting a bicycle or try out pedalling an e-bike. Oh, and after cobalt has been used to refine oil, you can't recycle it into anything.
Or better still, complain to the nations whom still allow child labour. It might do more good than complaining about it here. Child labour and exploitation isn't a direct result of electric cars being built. It was going on 200 years ago. You choose to mention it here because it fits your agenda.
Great video! It should always be the direction we’re headed in to focus on. The grid is getting cleaner, charging infrastructure is being built.Battery technology advancing fast.
I've never been that much of a car guy, but for some reason I keep watching your videos.
I bet you could even make me watch tupperware videos!
Keep up the great work!
thats one thingi have always said about Rory. even if u dont personally love the car , you would still love the video of that car. i remember he made me fall in love with 2020 (bentley flyingspur and audi a8) . thanks to Rory i will still buy those cars no matter when.
A great counter-point to the 'fill up' argument I saw somewhere online (probably Twitter): It takes 5 minutes to fill up at a petrol station, not including any time taken to go out of your way to get there. It takes 20 seconds to fill up an EV at home; 10 seconds to plug in when you get there, 10 seconds when you leave the next day.
I think that would be mine Mike!! It actually takes me around 6 seconds to plug in/unplug......and I only need to do it around every 8 to 9 days. I haven't set foot on a petrol station forecourt for 2 years now. I don't miss standing in a puddle of spilt diesel, holding a filthy nozzle in place until the car was full. Then paying through the nose for it....
And Tesla has developed cobalt free batteries. They’re literally months away from mass production in their 4680 battery cells, and Lithium Iron Phosphate LFP Tesla batteries made by CATL don’t require cobalt presently.
Tesla has not, Panasonic the company providing the batteries has.
@@bowez9 Have you heard of the 4680 cell? It’s Tesla direct.
@@wattlebough that number is only a deminsional classification, and if you look into it you will see that ALL of Tesla batteries are from suppliers and NOT made by Tesla
@@bowez9 The point is that Tesla will be making its own 4680s in-house. Not through an outside supplier. Eventually 4680s will be made by LG Chem, Panasonic and Tesla.
@@wattlebough no LG, Samsung and Panasonic manufacturer 4680 currently. Where I believe your confusion lies is it on site production -but Tesla is not making them.
The main thing that would put me off getting an electric car at the moment is not being able to charge it at home. To get power to my parking spot would require digging up a public pavement, then a private (but not owned by me) connecting driveway, and finally my parking spots (which do belong to me). Imagine just getting the required permissions to do all that, let alone the cost. If the government want everyone to switch to electric they're going to have to come up with a scheme to help with the planning and costs in parking spots that aren't directly adjacent to a house.
I'm actually tempted to move house before more people realise this is an issue and the value of houses without driveways starts to fall.
I switched and switched back. I will switch again in the future. I did 240 miles yesterday at motorway speeds, need an expensive EV to do that but I don't do that journey very often. I think 2025 will be the year to switch again. On a crazy note the SLk I bought last year is worth more than I paid for it.
Soo you bought a 100 Mile EV several years ago? Yep those were stupid. It's less about EVs being expensive, more about technology maturity. Those low mileage BEVs were not cheap. The same amount of money could by a much longer range vehicle.
Funnily enough I did a similar journey in my EV the other day with no problem.
All second hand car prices are on the rise. Due to the fall in new cars sales there’s less second hand cars on the market and prices are on the up.
@@Neojhun I had a Zoe ZE40 (bought with battery paid for in 2017 for £17800 new after some haggling - £6200 discount - not something they would give you now). Sold it last year for £13600 after 20k miles and it cost next to nothing to run. Summer range was 180-190 miles and winter 140-150 miles. Since then prices seem to have risen substantially (a Renault dealer wanted my car plus £17k for a new ZE50 GT Line). The Zoe only charged at 22kw max (good job I hardly ever needed to fast charge). I sold it because it was too dull to drive and to look at, I also missed having a convertible (I had one for 10 years prior to the Zoe and regretted changing pretty much straight away though it took me a while to admit this to myself).
@@robsmith1a Imagine the Possibilities of Self Charging EVs offering massive back2Grid power... Yes all that without using fossil fuel nor solar... someone has invented it...
@@barakathegenius self charging how?
A solar panel would take weeks to charge up a car.
5 years now I've owned an electric car. I'm just your average Joe Tesco worker. The money I would have spent on petrol/diesel ended up being used to pay for my EV finance... which paid off 3 years ago and now I'm financially even with an asset of £10k sitting on my drive.
All thanks to the cheapness of running an EV compared to Petrol/Diesel/LPG/Hydrogen.
I do like the fact peope are slow in the uptake though. Means more years free road tax for people like me 👌
Totally agree ! 😉
Yeah, but your Nissan Leaf is pants 🤘
Who said anything about a Leaf
But what if battery dies after warranty period? That will cost huge
@@jamesmayhew7 what else is it going to be? Either a Leaf (with a now 5yr old degraded battery - down to about 70miles range now if you're lucky), or a Renault Zoe (same battery tech as the Leaf, but that's a girl's car so unlikely to be what you drive).
If I'm right, that car is now worth about £3k tops
I love a balanced argument, good job Rory! Who'd have thought gear heads would be talking about recycling and the environment?
Another great video. Rory, you're killing it!
All the "Lower Taxes" paid on EV's [including the tax on electricity to charge them ] will increase over time as revenue from ICE falls due to there being less of them.
To raise electricity prices to including-tax-fuel-prices you would have to raise the tax on electricity to way beyond the +-70% tax you already pay on fuel in the UK.
Tax electricity like that would utterly cripple the country (esp. manufacturing) ... Or far more likely drive a very big proportion of the UK population (those lucky enough to have houses with a roof) into solar panels.
You going to tax the electricity for boiling the kettle or running the microwave just so you can get back to where ICE cars can stay competitive (on price) in 2027? You have to be joking.
Unless you the no there is a reasonable way to tell which electrons are used for charging an EV from the electrons used to cook food. Unlike fuel you can't just add a colour dye to the electrons and then check after the fact.
The car tax situation appears to be moving towards a pay-per-mile scheme.
(Which personally I'm not I favour of)
So could cost you more per year to tax than your current ICE car, if you do high milage.
@@aidanapword With smart meters, this could be applied to charging EVs,s and not homes. The government of the day will find a way. Supermarket charging will be the first step but new technology will ensure all car chargers pay higher taxes. Or as someone has already started by the mile charges will take up the slack. EVs will never be a cheaper way to drive. Remember when the Labor government encouraged everyone to drive diesel cars? EVs will be the next bad thing to use and be taxed off the road.
Yes but that will not happen anytime soon. As ICE is still the dominant type of cars on the road. Soo you are just fear mongering something which has no real effect. We can't magically replace all the ICE cars within 2 decades.
@@charlesholder8009 STOP with the political BS. Smart Meter is NOT possible because OFF GRID electric generation exist. Government would need insane policies where they tax OFF Grid Electric Generation. BEVs can be fueled / charge by off grid methods. Unlike ICE which you only can buy from Big Corporation. You are soo blinded by political ideology you fail to understand engineering reality.
This really is great info, more people need to be open about speaking this kind of stuff, awesome vid!
Also worth mentioning is that battery life of lithium cells doesn't degrade nearly as bad as you think. Most batteries will be good for 80% of range even after 10 years!
YOU said so many wrong things about ev's being bad. do more research. talk to fully charged or matt ferrell
???? Isn't that Electric car supposed to have some flaws behind it? EV's aren't perfect. They always focus on what's good about it, and never talk about the consequence behind it.
He was stating the arguments that the "other side" (read: backwards, ignorant science-denying fools) are making against EVs, then he countered these arguments. Rory has done his research perfectly fine.
Lol. How impressive this video is!!!! Well done! Short, but comprehensive!
Your reviews and discussion pieces are some of my favorites.
Rory - videos like this are why I follow Auto Trader. You manage to cover the salient points of any issue, whether cars or automotive trends. You deserve a wider following, dude. Kudos from the USA.
Great video. One important thing to remember though: don't buy a new EV if your old petrol one is still working fine.
not necessarily, unless costs is your only measure in which case that could be true. though if you do a lot of km's and care about the environment, switching can be great.
That can make sense on an individual basis and is often the most fiscally responsible path for an individual. But in the bigger picture, if you're trading in a used car that will be used by someone else, it is likely not a problem (ideally, your used ICE will replace an older less efficient car owned by someone else). New cars will be bought either way, and it is better in my opinion that the new cars be EVs.
@@OhMyLaurens you need to do a lot of kms for that to be true. If half of the emission of a car are from manufacturing and half from using (petrol), you would need to travel at least 2 or even 3 times more than the average. I'm pro EV, but buy them if you need a new car, not if you just fancy a new car to show off.
@@therealolds sure, and if you do just a couple thousand a year it won't be a big saving but certainly if you're driving a very old car it could. and as you said, if you have to upgrade anyway certainly a good pick. you've got your statistics wrong on how much more is polluted in the manufacturing of an EV over an ICE vehicle though. it's 50-150% more depending on battery size. after about a year you've polluted less.
Good point, presuming reasonable efficiency.
Great video Rory. One thing you didn't cover in any detail is the practicality of charging. For a two-car household with off-road parking, there's almost no reason not to go electric with one vehicle. Usually a smaller hatchback for local trips, shopping and school run for example, and you can just charge it at home from a wall mounted charger. At least for now, there's still some argument for keeping one ICE for longer journeys as the electric charging network isn't as convenient as filling up with petrol.
For those of us with only on-street parking, the infrastructure just isn't there. I do hope that in time local councils can start installing chargers on existing street furniture. A couple of chargers per lamppost would be able to charge about 30% of parked vehicles at any one time. Maybe we could sign up to a locally run charging scheme whereby the council the make a small profit margin on the electricity used to claw back the up-front cost of installation. It would still be a helluva lot cheaper than running an ICE. We can hope...
The battery recycling response was very misleading. If you include all Lithium batteries, it may well be only 5% that are recycled, but that is almost exclusively due to consumer devices like phones, tablets, laptops, etc, and toys/gadgets that use the Lithium button cells. Those all mostly end up in landfill, because the vast majority of people can't be bothered to take them to a local tip that has a battery recycling bin. Car battery packs are too valuable to be just dumped, as they are normally used for EV conversion projects, and home power wall type systems. Even after that additional 10+ years of secondary and tertiary use, they are 95%+ recyclable .
You missed my crucial issue, towing !
My daily driver is a van, I also own a jeep, I frequently tow 2/3 tons, I simply cannot do this currently with an EV.
Unfortunately you are a minority probably. But hey, the Citroen e-dispatch / Peugeot e-Expert can tow 1 tonne braked. So that's pretty good going. And can carry a tonne as well on a daily basis. It looks really good. Hopefully soon you'll be able to tow higher loads.
Yeah because the majority of the UK population tow 2/3 tons all the time.
Um no.
So, as you point out there are some use cases (especially outlier ones like yours) that are not catered for by EVs ... That's true. But it is also changing (just at a speed in proportion to the prevalence of the use case(s)).
In terms of moving big stuff (and towing) and so much more there are three NGS like the Ford F150 Lightning coming. Too big for UK road (absolutely, yes) but check out the prices of such in the US market (where large parts of the population do drive trucks and (allegedly) a bigger proportion of the population tow big stuff (allegedly) all the time).
That's close to purchase price parity as any other F150 already ... Especially when you remember you don't have to buy (and run) a powerful generator.
WRONG, you are a niche minority which BEVs should not cater to. There is such limited BEV production capacity. They can not cater to every single use case like Towing. No stick to Hybrid ICE. That is a logically flawed argument only to deny even bothering to attempt BEVs. Brainwashed false argument.
@@Jedimack7 "0.06% of all new cars last year were EVs." YOU LIAR!
Depending on region BEVs Pure Electric are low single digit Percentage somewhere around 2-6% of the market. You are a liar propagandist.
Absolutely good stuff right there... Keep more coming down here in Africa. We need to make a massive change too...!
Fantastic, Moses! You are one of the best presenters I have ever seen talking about Electric Cars. You are great!
Exactly !
I'm from South Africa and hopefully Africa as a whole can catch up. Let's get our governments to watch this video
@@tshiamomogale207 Imagine the Possibilities of Self Charging EVs offering massive back2Grid power... Yes all that without using fossil fuel nor solar... someone has invented it...
It might be a long time until people there figure out the benefits and values of participating in that cause on the individual level in their behaviors towards their environment, especially the urban environment.
For now the leaderships communities, even religious leaders are completely oblivious to emissions. Outreach in local languages could be a start as we've seen it for the global health awareness.
Love these videos Rory! Keep them coming
I have just driven 450 miles in 2 days in my Mini electric, Lincoln to Swansea and back. I used to try and make it a 1 stop journey, but a 2 stop journey with the Mini is far more enjoyable and safer as I’m not driving for more than 2 hours. Fast foods establishments now need to serve me more quickly as I was getting too much charge into the battery waiting for my refreshments.
Fantastic video, raises many points that need to be faced a.s.a.p. A future video debate pro and con with another person in the industry would be awesome. Rory and the team are too big for CZcams at this point. Great content and incredible presentation. Keep up the great work.
EV are better yes... but personally I think they should be used for normal economy cars that normal people use... enthusiast cars should not be banned from having an internal combustion engine and also motorsports...sports cars and racing contribute very little to global warming because they are so few of them
@@SnazzySki98 the UK has a tax on CO2 g/100km (or whatever the scale is they use).
And the UK has huge taxes on every litre.
Neither of these are "displacement tax" they are efficiency taxes.
Motorsports was always justified (at least for last 20 or so years) based on the idea that it drives technological advance in mainstream motoring (ref: all the rules and changes regarding power trains in Formula 1, and so much more).
Without that the Motorsports of burning stuff is just a vanity, and a wasteful one at that.
I don`t think its even feasible for them to make both though. Plus eventually we will have a new generation of people who grew up with electric cars and won`t understand why old people like gas.
@@SnazzySki98 I like the sound of the boxer engine that was in my Subaru, but I also like the way my Bolt sings to me when I floor it. The sounds are different, and I get that change is scary, but they're not bad. The tire squeal is the same. :)
I especially like the 200hp, and 250ft/lb of torque in the Bolt. Blows my old 'Roo out of the water by far. Driving anything fast is involved, whether it's electric or gasoholic. Besides, how much theater is there in NASCAR cars driving in circles for hours on end :P
@@SnazzySki98 it's more than 6% of global emissions ... from your own comment: "oil extraction and petroleum refining make up about 10% of emissions" ... so that's 10+6 ... and if you think it is all solely about the CO2 emissions you haven't really been following have you? And you ignore the enviromental impact of the poor soul sitting in a dingy little kiosk so folks can pour their flammable liquids into a tank and then pay for it.
"So if you are really ignorant enough to believe that motorsports and ICE enthusiast cars are significantly wasteful," -> so what does ICE motorport acheive other than entertainment? It used to achieve innovation and improvements in safety. And it's worth noting that performance improvements that many of us enjoyed for many years used to come from the ICE motorsports world ... but then that's a sticky wicket for arguing about now that ICE performances is trailing badly.
As regards eFuel - that's a wash in itself. It's a thing called Nitrous Oxide - and heaven only knows the upstream impacts of it's production ... and if it's "just a porsche" or "just for motorsport" thing it will never acheive scale (and a whole bunch of environmentall impacts from that too).
The future is not "alternative fuels" for the simple reasons based in the laws of physics.
Combustion is a wasteful thing to do, end of discussion. I don't give a monkeys what fuel you use *for cumbustion* because it is the combustion that is the problem.
And if you think the laws of physics aren't relevant to this discussion then I have a suspicion that I am not th ignorant one.
Thanks Rory,
You have a great presentation style.
I have purchased my first EV and am picking it up this week. I want to help reduce our carbon footprint as quickly as possible.
Thank you.
Amazing Video. Everything I can think of was touched on. Look forward to the detailed ones on battery recycling etc. Thanks AT and Rory.
Volkswagen have posted a CZcams video on their EV battery recycling plant a couple of years back. It's an interesting watch.
Very interesting, thank you for all the explanations 😊👍
Good video. Companies and people should also play a bigger part to help out.
Elon musk is awful doug demuro is awful
Keepin' it real world Rory! Nice one 😊👍🏾
Fewer parts, fewer fluids to change, smoother, quieter, fill-up @ home... it's worked out well for us. We do still have a gasser, but the EV gets most of the use.
Couple of things I would add.
1. Cobalt in batteries. They are reducing / eliminating it and it can be recycled after the battery is end of life. Cobalt is used to refine petrol and some of it is lost forever.
2) Second life battery use. Once the car is retired the battery will likely still have 80% of it's original capacity and can be used for grid storage.
Rory is going from strength to strength. Excellent work.
Let’s also look at the ICE, they too need at least some raw materials that require dirty extraction and to refine crude oil into petrol/diesel to fuel your GR Yaris, Nissan GTR and 911 GT3, is extremely polluting. I tell you, I just came off carwow’s latest video on the IAA Munich, some petrolheads hate EVs so much, they put forth every valid reason why EVs are bad for te environment, they never considered their beloved combustion engines and this is coming from a fellow car enthusiast. I should have put forth this argument in that carwow piece. As for EVs, how environmentally-friendly they are and how practical they are, depends on where you live, you have to consider a lot of factors before deciding if it’s better to purchase an EV or a fuel-efficient hybrid. Finally, I think some politicians have some responsibility here. They’ve been talking the talk on the environment for some time, but it’s taken them until recently to put forth plans to “clean up their act”, now many are encouraging all consumers to use EVs when the technology and charging infrastructure is still developing. But what’s done is done, we have to decide for ourselves if we can use an EV or not. Great video, Trader Team!
@@phileasfogg3536 At the point where we were encouraged to drive diesel, not only was the focus on CO2, but viable electric cars didn't exist. This is all about urban air quality - a concern since the 1960's and associated fines and healthcare costs. Things are forced on people all the time through legislation and it this case nobody will stop someone from driving a internal combustion powered vehicle after 2030, just that there will not be any new ones on sale.
The main thing that's preventing people from switching to EVs is infrastructure, here in Turkey you only have the choice to charge your car in your house which is not convenient at all.
Always great stuff. i like being able to watch your videos to get a better feel for the current market of auto trends. I'm just not sure where I go next on cars., but it's great to keep watching and getting new view points.
Currently EV's are flawed because they lack emotion. I tested a Model 3 performance and although it hit 60 in 3.4 seconds on half a charge with 3 people on board it was boring to drive. I liked driving the Model S more, not because it was fun but the seats were comfortable, I liked having a gauge cluster and the system didn't reboot on me while driving unlike the Model 3.
Once a manufacturer figures out how to give an emotion to an EV I will end up buying one. I'm thinking fun sounds when accelerating plus maybe lights in the a pillar moving towards me like in Spaceballs.
Hit the nail right there mate. They are fast but pretty much that's it
Emotions my ass.
Most people don't give a Donald Duck about their cars having "emotion". They just want fuss free, reliable transport.
I had two V8 AMGs before, currently Model S 2021 and fully agree on thats what missing. Its not that bad but its missing. Otherwise the Model S is superior in every way other way.
@@Brian-om2hh I care and I know I'm not that only one.
Literally just returned from a 550 mile overnight trip from the north west to Farnborough and back, employer gave me a Japanese hybrid for this jaunt. Just an awful machine, schizophrenic at best. Did the same trip in my ID.3 a few months ago, same average speeds on the motorways, no need to stop on the way and a rapid charge on arrival at the hotel. Just a much better package IMO and for the same price
An ID3 isn’t the same price as a hybrid 😂 and the range on my 2.0 hybrid Corolla is FAR beyond the reach of your ID pee before needing to stop anywhere. It also doesn’t run out of puff after it hits 100 kph…🙄
@@i20nScot the RAV4 I had was ‘from £30k’, my pre-registers ID.3 Pro cost me £30K. Looks the same to me?
@@bluerallyes2 Well no. The RAV-4 isn’t in the same class as an ID3, is it? The Corolla would be the Toyota hybrid equivalent by body type and size/capacity. Which is much cheaper 👍🏼
@@i20nScot never said it was in the same vehicle class. Said it was a better package (£ for £) in my opinion.
For £30k I’d take the VW every time personally. The RAV4 did nothing particularly well apart from the blind spot monitor. The chassis was crashy, the engine noisy, the drivetrain confused and the ACC was just untrustworthy. Even came off the motorway early to try the EV mode and it gave me just 4 miles (if I kept under 30). I’d rather have the pure petrol / diesel one *if* I had to take one.
@@bluerallyes2 Hybrids aren’t for motorway driving. I’d agree the RAV4 is old and showing it, but that’s hardly a good example to base a “hybrids are pants” view on. They’re actually still more everyday practical and what you would expect when driving a car, than most EV cars.
The ID3 is pretty cool, not knocking it. Just your incorrect generalization of hybrids 😉
Love the video Rory, makes me really think about going electric. Need a video from you on a replacement to the hot hatch that we all know and love and in the price range. Will be watching.
As ever, great clip Rory, lovin your work! 👊
I’m moving to a plug-in hybrid for my next car as for work purposes I need a car I can just get in and go since I could be going almost anywhere in the country, I need the rapid refuelling capabilities as it’s time critical. In my personal life most places I go are within a 20 mile radius of my home so I’ll be able to travel around on electric power for the vast majority of the time.
There is a catch though and that’s that I can’t charge at home easily as I don’t have off street parking so I’m going to have to wait till I move house before I can make the plunge.
Keeping it charged up is key to getting the best from a plug-in hybrid though.
@@Brian-om2hh Definitely, that’s why I’m going to keep my petrol car till I move house and can install a home charger. The good thing about where I live is that most places I go also have chargers but they are still slow 7KW chargers rather than the higher end rapid chargers. There is only one rapid charger (100KW max) in my town and it’s at the petrol station ironically.
Great video. My wife sat down and watched this, and said he’s good…praise indeed.
Tesla too are recycling their batteries as they start to roll in, and there are quite a few independent recyclers around the world putting these materials back into the system. And it’s on the increase…be really surprised if the Chinese aren’t. Try recycling your combusted fuel.
Not just Tesla internally, but former CTO JB Straubel set up an entire company to further improve recycling methods called Redwood Materials. That's how dedicated they are to getting the job done.
Yes Tesla figured out there batteries issue for it to be more efficient and recyclable
@@lip124 and they charge you US $6000 to take it from you to be recycled too. After the US $12,000 minimum to supply and fit your new battery.
Excellent, balanced summary. For a short video, you covered the basics very well indeed. Brilliant! Keep it up.
Rory, what a great video. Your balanced reasoning of the issues is what we need to see more of; high-lighting the cons, then calmly shooting them down or acknowledging them as true, but only for now. My reluctance to EV's (I live in tower block) was the issue of charging, but as you said most can go for a week on a single charge; thus I just need to adapt my schedule to allow for a weekly top-up.
PS: when will you do a review of the Kia EV6, it's the first EV I have considered buying (love it's look).
UK company, Cella Energy , developed catalysed hydrogen pellets, teeny enough to pump and flow like a liquid, a very safe solution for hydrogen fuel. Only minor changes to existing combustion engines were required to take advantage of this very clean tech. Unfortunately, in the end Cella Energy ran out of funding, but the technology still exists.
Hydrogen is still difficult to produce cleanly
@@dietznutz1 And energy inefficient. For domestic vehicle use it just doesn't make any sense.
Cella was widely thought to be a scam.
Couldn't agree more Rory, the other thing you didn't mention is that even if an EV is powered by fossil fuel generated power it is still way more efficient at converting that energy into motion than an internal combustion engine. It's a shame as I love a good V8 as much as anyone but you can't argue with the science!
Doesn't have to be, where i live is coal electric plant which have roughly 30% efficiency, out of that 85% is left after charging so 25.5% and then is 80% efficient to bring that to the wheels which brings it to 20,4% which can be beat by many modern internal combustion engines and that is without considering the pollution from lithium extraction.
And by that i don't think conventional cars are greener but that we are not there yet, we have to get electricity out of cleaner sources
@@themarenda absolutely agree, it depends on how the power is generated. That said the fraction of the energy mix provided by renewables is only going one way, so its only getting better over time.
The issue is scalability. We don't have the power-station infrastructure to support EVs on the required scale. That will be costly in itself. If it were feasible to power your EV from solar or wind, that would be even more costly as we still need power stations for base load supply. I.e. it is necessary to pay the capital infrastructure costs 2 x because wind is unreliable.
@@themarenda a concern with your analysis here: very rarely in any major economy anywhere in the the world over is coal the majority source for electricity (an unsaid assumption you make). Very very rarely in fact.
Poland is the worst offender for this in Europe. Poland is the 7th most populous country in Europe (ignoring Russia), and the population in Poland is 10% of the top 7 combined.
Poland - being the worst offender - got 80% (not 100%) of it's energy from coal (of various grades) in 2018 (which, in energy terms, is ancient history) and trending down all the time.
The UK (a significantly bigger part of the top 7 populations) goes many months without burning *any* coal (though it does still use natural gas).
And you forget the impact of local emissions.
And you forget that the emissions from coal plants are fast becoming sources of income (and not cost) for those plants so they are cleaning up their act (because it just makes economic sense).
Buy an ICE car now and you set in motion (if you will) emissions for the next 15 years of internal combustion of a limited resource. You still think your "analysis" will hold any sway or be in any way relevant in 12 or 15 years' time? Think again.
@@jamescaley9942
We're putting trusty coal power stations back online because the wind didn't blow over summer and now we can't get power from France.
Brilliant, very informative. Would love to see the videos you mentioned you might make
Typically excellent and well balanced video from Rory addressing highly relevant questions. Really interested in seeing the follow up videos that he said he might make.
Great video. Balanced and articulate as ever Rory.
I’m a gadget freak and would love to own electric, but it’s initial costs, lack of infrastructure and sheer lack of kerb appeal that put me off. I look forward to the day when electric cars are fun to drive
Try a Twizy. They are fun.
Electric cars are so much fun to drive already - Hill starts, hill climbing & overtaking, are just so much fun. A couple of weeks ago I was following a Merc doing about 54mph on the A449 between Ledbury and Malvern in Herefordshire, at the foot of the climb up the Malvern Hills the Merc slowed down to about 51 - it's that poor old slow petrol engine thing, so as the road ahead was straight and empty I overtook, 51 to 74 in a second or so, up a steep hill. EVs don't really notice hills, they just climb. Multiple lane traffic lights - you always win. Round-a-bouts - EVs reliably accelerate and can therefore fit into smaller gaps in the traffic then you would dare to attempt in a petrol car.
Initial Costs are high, but as Rory said total cost of ownership makes EVs cheaper and, if you drive more than 11k a year, most likely cheaper than a petrol car. You take the money saved on fuel and use it to pay for a higher monthly leasing bill.
As for infrastructure, if, and it's a big if, you have a drive and can get a car charger (standard UK are 7kWh) you only occasionally charge away from home.
Finally, Kerb appeal, have a look at the Kia EV6 & or Hyundai Ioniq5. These are Hyundai's (who own Kia) 3rd generation EVs and the first that aren't designed to be both a petrol car and an EV.
@@ianmurray250 EV cars are not cheaper to own, but yes they might be cheaper to lease by saving gas money towards lease payments.
But leasing cars every few years (3yrs - 5yrs) is more expensive than buying a used cheap car and keeping it for 10 or 15 years.
EV cars are generally still for upper middle class or the wealthy.
@@chesspro22k64 They are actually cheaper to own, if you factor in fuel and maintenance. They are more expensive upfront, but multiple studies have shown they are cheaper to own long term due to the reasons listed above.
Initial cost? I've seen Renault Zoe's for sale at £6k....
Have seen all the points, but for me the main reason not to switch is that there are no fun affordable roadsters.
Like the only electric roaster i know of is the Tesla and the vast majority of the others are these hideous crossovers. Like come on build an EV for the enthusiast and I'm down but so far their pretty much all really boring. (No fast acceleration is not interesting)
taycan rwd?
they will make a cabriolet
@@BayernFan05 sorry forgot to say it's got to be reasonably affordable. Like 50k i can do 150-200 really is too much. Basically electric competition for an MX5, Z4 or a new SLK.
Just a random thought, I ain’t no professional but how on earth will they fit an acceptably sized battery in a roadster without making the roadster bigger? No idea how Tesla have cracked it. I definitely cannot see something like a mazda mx5/miata with a battery good for 150 plus miles…but who’s know? I may eat my words in the next 5 years.
@@akubel33t i don't know. You might be right, but right now I drive the last gen SLK. (I don't fit in a Miata)
And i wouldn't want to go back to a normal car. A hot hatch maybe, but then it's gotta be really good. And so far like the VW GTX, and TBH the last GTIs too, are more nippy GTs than fun cars. I've heard good things about the Honda E, but that has the price/range issue. Hopefully once japanese brands get serious about EVs we'll get some good ones.
Oh and BTW, while Toyota is lagging behind massively in EVs, they are the leader in solid state batteries which are generally considered the next big thing. So far no proof of concept though, just a ton of patents.
A lot of food for thought there. Great presentation well done and thanks.
Very interesting and well presented video, great work Rory.
The argument about it not being green because the electricity coming from a coal power plant is incorrect. A giant coal powerplant is far more efficient than a tiny ice engine in your car. 1000 people with electric cars charging from electricity directly from that power plant is way greener than 1000 ice vehicles on the road.
Instead of having to spend money to be greener here's a good idea that's totally free and does way more than cars on the road. Stop eating so many animal products, simple. Agriculture from animal production makes 13.5% of CO2 pollution in the entire world.
Couldnt have said better myself. Tough to get it through some rather challenged people.
Yes, Engineering Explained did a video about this and the conclusion was the only time a gas car is better for the environment than an EV is if the EV is being charged on 100% coal and you're comparing a sports sedan made for performance (Tesla model S) to a small super efficient hybrid hatchback (Toyota Prius). And this assumed that the grid is not going to switch to natural grass or renewable sources and that the cars are going to be retired after about 10 years.
And coal power plants haven't been mainstream in UK energy supply for a number of years ... It's only Poland that - in Europe at least - that really lags on and this and even in that scenario (and assuming you build the batteries in Poland, which we don't) where there is anything left for ICE to suggest it takes significant time to reach impact parity.
I giant diesel engine in a cruise/cargo ship emits a load more emissions
@@_Rafiki. again same thing applies, those big engines in cargo ships are pretty efficient, and considering the amount of stuff one ship can carry, still every single person driving a combustion engine is worse.
As always when you do these more narrative uploads, Rory, you always present a well-balanced argument - thanks.
However, in the "EVs cost too much" section, I would point out that your ICE vs EV prices comparison was a bit misleading, in that you suggested prices for 'entry-level' ICE models versus what are always higher specification EVs, with sat nav and an auto-gearbox.
So, for example with your MINI Electric vs ICE comparison, the Electric is largely Cooper S spec, which means the ICE version, with the auto box, is £24k vs the Electric Level 1 at £28k - still a fair chunk in cash terms, but not quite the massive difference you suggested and actually, on PCP, the EV is cheaper, despite the RRP difference.
But, great video, either way, dude... :-)
Part of the problem there I guess is there is no "entry-level" spec for EVs. Since it's still a small market the manufacturers are positioning EVs as premium models and slamming on all the bells and whistles they can to justify the high price. Understandable I guess but is it holding back the mass adoption of BEVs?
@@NickFoster all good points. Also: manufacturers are pricing EVs at the prices people are prepared to pay for them (as is ever the way) in balance with the levels o demand they can deliver against. Tesla chose a different path (and suffered for it, as have all the quality issues that so many people (out of ballance) moan and groan about).
Automatic transmission EVs? Hehe ;)
@@NickFoster There is, in China. When these vehicles get to the UK or the EU you'll see much cheaper entry level vehicles, and they ARE coming there. BYD for instance is putting out a $16,000 vehicle that gets really good range for that price point and they make their own batteries so they have a solid business. They have about the best recharge cycle life, I don't know how long the batteries can still hold good charge after X amount of years, but if they will last as long as their charge cycles then you could have a 15 - 20 year battery pack. I'd have to do more research on that one though. They use LFS batteries not Li-Ion. They're called blade batteries. Overheating isn't an issue for them and they're probably the safest batteries on the market for EVs. China from what I understand already has companies that are making European brand vehicles since those companies are under joint ownership and partly Chinese ownership. So maybe you see a Chinese brand entry vehicle or a European brand entry vehicle, but they are coming. Why this is happening in China is because they have a few companies that have been working at EV production longer and harder than every other company other than Tesla. Even with Tesla though it's expected they'll have a vehicle in the low 20s USD by the end of the decade.
The issue is these companies have to make a lot of profit at first to scale up production and pay for building new factories, so that almost forces them to focus first on the higher end market where they make better margins.
@@wss33 ??? Most EVs have a gearbox to step down the speed of the motor to what's appropriate to move the tires. But, as you get into heavier vehicles, it creates a problem even for EVs. There are 3 good ways to deal with that. One is you can make an auto transmission but it's only 2 or 3 gears, and this is so you don't have to over-engineer the drive parts or you could destroy parts, twist metal, etc... because you need so much torque when starting out. You can use a CVT as another solution. Or, you use a motor for each wheel that will move the vehicle, and this is assuming 4+ wheels as trucks get heavier so 4+ motors. Any of those solutions work
Great video, a lot of interesting stuff and quality information. Greetings from Spain
Simply perfect presentation Rory. I would vote for you! 👌👍👌
Excellent video, never spoken of before! I didn't know many of your points!
Yes very nice!
Some of these issues have been looked at far too simplistically.
Range for starters. Ranges quoted are under ideal circumstances. Range drops off significantly in winter especially if you are using heaters (I have seen figures quoted of up to a 40-50% reduction at sub zero temperatures). Range is also impacted massively if you are towing or carrying a heavy load, in heavy traffic etc. Range also drops off as the batteries age (this could be up to 10% over 5 years, especially on cheaper or lower end vehicles). These factors stack far worse in EVs than they do for ICE cars and are further compounded by the already lower starting range of most EVs.
The electric Mini he cites as being able to do 140 miles "if you are lucky". Now imagine this car at 5 years old on a Christmas trip in the depths of winter to visit family down south, fully laden with a wife, two kids and luggage in stop start traffic on the M6. Your theoretical 140 mile "if you are lucky" range.......you could easily be looking at half that.
Also, when discussing range, quoting "average commute" is rather disingenuous. Yes, most EVs will cover the average journey of most people, however since multiple car ownership is also very expensive, many people cannot afford to buy multiple cars in order to suit all of their differing needs and instead punt for a car that will cover not only their average journey, but also the less frequent but equally important journeys they need to do throughout the year. We own an SUV for example - not because we have a particular desire for one (we prefer low, sleek cars), but because we currently own large dogs that need to be transported around. We are also doing work on our property and frequently need to buy and transport significant amounts of building materials, waste etc. Until recently we were also making bi-weekly 340 mile round trips to the south of England. A diesel SUV just struck us as the overall best compromise between what we wanted and what would actually work in our life at the time.
An electric supermini or a Tesla model 3 could service our "average" journey just fine, but it would be pretty useless for all the other outlier journeys we need to make throughout the year. People buy cars that can service most of the requirements of their actual real life (including all the variability and outliers that comes with it), not some theoretical, statistically smoothed, average view of it.
Yeah also what would be the cost of an electric 7 seater eg. Even a small xc40 electric price is ridiculous. Only the very well off would be able to afford an electric 7 seater.
A very good video, Rory, and you make some valid points vis-a-vis both the pros and cons of the EVs. One important point pertaining to the production and recycling of batteries that you skipped, though, is the alternative battery types that are being emphatically researched - like the solid state batteries and massless/structural batteries.
Hi, a very interesting video but I live in the East Midlands, I won't say exactly where but driving around as I do and using various filling stations I have only once come across a charging point and I do mean one charging point. If the people who currently sell petrol and diesel don't quickly improve charging facilities long distance driving will become a nightmare for EV drivers. Also queuing for petrol or diesel during summer months can be hell with most people only taking a few minutes to fill their tank imagine the queue when it takes at least 20 minutes.
Please review about toyota hydrogen ICE engine or another future combustion engine technology ( like koenigsegg ) 🙏
Agreed on this one I feel like hydrogen would make a better solution than just electricity and heavy battery packs
Yes good idea
@@vinithvindula7336 until you stop and count what the cost of the hydrogen network is.
And that FCEV is not appreciably better than BEV.
And that FCEV (even with an efficient green-hydrogen source and network) is never going to achieve the same levels of efficiency or safety.
And that having to go somewhere to fill the car up is a right PITA.
@@vinithvindula7336 problem with hydrogen is the amount of power needed to produce it. There will be uses for it but mass adoption for personal transport is unlikely.
Hydrogen ICE engines are an even worse idea than hydrogen fuel cells (for private cars). Hydrogen ICE engines emit harmful levels of NOx. We have to move completely away from the idea of burning stuff to produce energy.
Just felt I needed to hear Rory's rational voice! Btw nothing to do with EVs just having a bad day! EVs are the future, embace it!
I’m not against electric cars, I’d actually quite like one. However. There are two pretty big stumbling blocks for me personally. 1 I can’t afford one and 2, here in rural Scotland, living on a farm, there is no electric car on the market that would do what I do with my Land Rover. No electric car is able to tow up to 3.5 tons and yes, I do this on average once a week. No electric car would be suitable do drive through a field, or in fact, be of any use when not on tarmac. Yes, they are getting cheaper to produce and yes, gradually they are getting cheaper BUT the fact that the batteries they use can not be recycled (yet) is also a cause for concern. With more and more electric cars, with more and more batteries that can’t be recycled, what’s going to happen to them? I read that the way batteries are produced for Tesla, the glues and bonding to make them strong also make them virtually impossible to dismantle let alone recycle. I’ve never owned a car less than 10 years old and a 10 year old car with 100000 miles on the clock will easily do another 100000 miles. What about a 2nd, 3rd, 4th hand, 10 year old electric car with 100000 miles on the clock? How much life will be left in the batteries?
As I said at the start, I’d be happy to have an electric car BUT, as I’ve explained, I think their are some pretty serious questions that still need to be answers
A very informative video Mr Rory, full of facts and information, and interesting talking points, nice T-shirt lol.
Its gona be a long while before im driving an electric vehicle simply because i cant afford one.🤔
And im sure that im not in the minority as i know loads of people who cant afford a new car let alone an electric one costing a lot more than there normal couterpart.
By the time i may be able ro buy a second hand one we are gona be in the territory where the batteries are near done and why would i want to buy a car which would potentially need a new battery costing thousands?
Why buy new? I got a 2017 Bolt Premier for $15k last year. Teslas are expensive, but they're not the only EV on the market, especially in the EU/Britain. Just stay away from Leafs.
The batteries last a lot longer than people getting paid to spread FUD would have you believe. I've got 43,000ish miles on my Bolt and it's still at 97% of original capacity. It seems to be around 1% loss per 10,000 miles, and remember that that's 1% compounded, not total.
Gas engines tend to last less than 200,000 miles on average. 200,000 miles on a battery would be around 81% state of charge still if the 1% loss holds up. Of course if you're constantly driving the gas engine hard, or babying it, it'll last shorter or longer and the same for batteries.
Besides, it's an investment in both your own financial future, and the future of humanity on this planet. The EV saves you money, and helps keep the planet from becoming uninhabitable.
Not a very educated comment. You need to do some reading.
I like it people point out the human rights exploitation of mining rare earth metals. It is real problem , which needs addressing, but some act like it's a reason that EV's are bad.
Are they forgetting the numerous countries that have been bombed and invaded and the hundreds of thousands of innocent people killed in the pursuit of oil...
Oh dear, here we go yet again..... The vast majority of EV manufacturers have signed a pledge to buy *only* ethically sourced lithium. The Chinese however, continue to purchase unethically sourced lithium. This fact has been verified by Amnesty International. If exploiting makes your stomach churn, take a look at where your clothes were made. India, Pakistan, Thailand etc, all have sweatshops, with kids producing clothes. You do wear clothes I take it? If child labour is an issue for you, then try complaining to those whom still allow it to continue. It may have more effect than complaining about it here..... And here's something else to consider. The oil companies have been mining cobalt for DECADES. They use it to remove sulphur during the refining process. Has that ever concerned you previously?
Wow! Excellent videos and explanations. Well done.
Excellent video, great points - lost me on the avocados reference though…..Best car channel on CZcams hands down.
Still can't get over Top Gear letting him go. He's a genius car guy speaker. He is going to leave them in the dust off he keeps going as well as this
Great video - I can't wait to live in a world where every car, lorry and truck is electric and the air we breathe is so much cleaner!
Especially City Commercial vehicles should switch of BEVs. Not because of CO2 emissions. But the direct health impact on the dense population around them. I live 3 doors down from a busy main street. Just walking along the road you can smell the noxious exhaust fumes. Just the air quality benefit alone is worth it.
wont happen even if the whole world embrace EV.
And thats because pollution generated by vehicles is very very insignificant compared to the ones produced by large scale industries, production, major shipping and air travel.
The idea that the world is going to be cleaner if everyone uses EV is very naive. The intention is good..but reality is really different.
@@muneirovalibas6194 WRONG also pointless. Your silly ideology is some insane theory about ephemeral global pollution. Ignore that stuff, i'm also not talking about CO2. I'm talking about Air Pollution which you breath from emissions Directly Near You. That will dramatically improve if city vehicles change to EVs. That alone is worth the switch. But the real benefit of BEV is Tougher Resilient and more Powerful Faster. CO2 is NOT the main reason to switch to EVs. Stop with the outdated broken ideology.
@@muneirovalibas6194 It's not naïve at all, and I think it's rather silly to jump to that conclusion based on my one-line comment. Everyone embracing EVs is part of a wider picture of everyone, everywhere, embracing cleaner less polluting ways of living and working. So as part of a bigger picture, the world will gradually stop burning stuff. And even if it was ONLY EVs (which it will never be) that would still make a huge difference to the local air in a local level in local areas because it's the NOx gases (not CO2) coming out of exhaust pipes on local roads which affects the air quality on a local level. PLUS the massively damaging and polluting process of extracting oil from the ground, transporting it, refining it, transporting it again would be hugely reduced (if not eliminated altogether). There are many different factors to consider.
@@SwitchedOnNetwork "PLUS the massively damaging and polluting process of extracting oil from the ground, transporting it, refining it, transporting it again "
oh dear, you are naive. i mean you do know that the petrol industry contributes far more than gas for people to press pedals for, right?....
And you..do realize...that fashion and make up industry, contribute far more to global climate damage than even ICE vehicles? It might sound perplexing but thats because ICE technology have improved so much over decades, its not the gass guzzling smoke bellowing monsters of the 60s and 70s...
The hype and mania of converting ICE passenger vehicles to EVs is just a smokescreen by policy makers to protect and shift attention away from their billionaire friends and their businesses and industries, which are the real contributor of CO2 and other toxic gases. Until that change, your cute Tesla means F ALL in the fight for a cleaner Earth.
Batteries getting more efficient in next few years, and price gap reducing in next few years doesn't encourage me to replace my diesel car now. Also being retired, living in a rural location, driving maybe 5000 miles a year, never driving into cities with congestion charges the buying an EV makes no sense financially. I don't think I am alone.
Following from the United States (Los Angeles). You’re one of the best car reviewers, hands down. Thanks!
I’m sure someone said that ev batteries can be recycled for many different purposes??
Yeah, they often have second lives in power-wall systems, etc. It's a bit odd to talk about the % of batteries currently getting recycled, because most are no where near old enough for that, just yet.
Quite correct.
@@Mike.W.Dasher There are a lot of dead EV battery cells... probably more than you think. The nissan leaf is now 10years old. less than 5% of all dead nissan leaf batteries have been recycled. It isn't cost effective to recycle them... yet
@@TheComputec It might not be an unwise investment to buy up those old Leaf batteries and store them somewhere. Assuming they're extremely cheap and no one wants them. Could be worth a penny in the future.
My point was just that EV's are still a relatively new thing, so battery recycling will no doubt ramp up in the future. As you say, the scales of economy aren't good enough just yet, maybe, but that will change in the not-too-distant future.
Though I'm now wondering if the numbers quoted in the video included batteries from cellphones and laptops...
EV's are "more expensive"... But have you actually looked at the leasing cost? Because EV's hold their residual value their leasing cost is often cheaper than petrol or diesel models. That is without looking at service or running costs.
Vey true Mike. I have seen (albeit a little while back) Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) being offered at £200 per month......
That is not the case in America. Fanboys keep the resale values of Teslas high, but every other EV on the market depreciates at 2-3 times the rate of ICE. Even Ford admits they don't expect the Mach-E to retain more than 30% of it's initial value after four years. It's so bad they even created a different payment structure that works like a lease, but with a balloon payment at the end of the term, so they could keep monthly payments down. The depreciation on EVs is so bad it negates any savings on maintenance and most, if not all of the savings at the pump. Especially if you live somewhere, like I do, where gas is $3/gallon and electricity is 14 cents a kWh. The savings vs a hybrid is less than 4 cents a mile. Not enough to make up for the higher initial purchase price. And public charge stations charge more than double the residential rate so an EV would actually cost you more per mile if you frequently fast charge. We also don't get the tax incentives the UK has. A more expensive car pays more taxes, regardless of its "fuel" or efficiency.
Cobalt is also used in refinig oil, batteries can be recycled, most people already make stops that frequent enough to charge an ev. Price and lack of home charging are probably the biggest real problems.
The quality of your journalism is first class.
I love videos like this. I’m torn between the push to EVs vs public transportation. Why not jump from gas cars to major advances in public transportation?
Because 'Merica, and the countries copying us.
Because corporations want to sell every person they can their own expensive toy that requires constant maintenance and fuel rather than socializing, or communizing, the transportation to make it cheaper and more efficient.
Snark aside we should do both, but conservatives and corporations keep getting in the way.
Because it's not private and doesn't give as much freedom.
@@Jcewazhere couldn’t have said it better.
@@hi9580 Both are things that people should be willing to give up during their weekly commute/usual errands since the whole point is to save the planet.
@@ashdtx3267
It doesn't leave from my house and to where I want to be.
I don't have someone with BO next to me.
I have the temperature I want.
I can stop when and where I want.
I can listen to music as loud as I want.
If I could afford the upfront cost, I’d have been driving an EV for at least two years now. Sadly there aren’t any second hand EVs with charging or range that fit my needs and I can afford, but as soon as there is I’ll be making the switch.
It’s really not better at all.
hopefully you will find something soon. there are quite a few really nice EVs out there.
@@Spotter-What do you mean?
Same here, once I can buy 1-2 year old EV with decent range for under 15k I'll be up for it
You don't necessarily need to consider range so much if there is rapid charging available..... Plus you don't always need to *fully* charge, you could simply put enough in to get you home, and onto your own tariff. MY Kia has almost 300 miles range when fully charged. I did a 520 mile round trip about 18 months ago, and stopped just *once* for 45 minutes to charge up to full using a 100kw charger. That got me home, and I charged at home through the night at 5p per kw. A full charge is around £7 to £8 for my car. I usually charge around every 8 to 9 days.
It would interesting to hear your take on battery leasing too. Great channel!
Battery leasing stopped years ago
Battery leasing ceased to be necessary years ago and the modern BEV battery lasts easily as long as the car today ... And by 2025 probably way longer than the car in the first place.
And if battery leasing was purely a OpEx-not-CapEx route around the cost of batteries that "industry" never took off because battery capital cost has dropped through the floor (and is making its way through the basement).
Couple of things that don't seem to get discussed very much:
Firstly, like millions of others in the UK, I live in a terraced property. It's a lovely house, but I can rarely get parked anywhere near it. The option to charge an electric car at home isn't available and there simply aren't enough charging points to cope. If you multiply the number of people like me and the amount of time it would take to charge each of their cars.... you get the idea. There would have to be a massive increase in the number of chargers to meet the demand.
Secondly, money. The UK government receives a massive amount of money each year in fuel duty (over £20bn in 2020/21 down from £27bn a year earlier). At some point, the treasury is going to make people pay a lot more to use electric/hybrid cars in order to keep that money coming in.
Unless we find a viable way of switching over to using hydrogen, which could solve a number of problems including those outlined above, I think we will have to significantly curtail the use of private transport. That prospect doesn't fill me with joy.
A system of Road Tolls is to replace lost and diminishing fuel duty. The tax burden will switch from fuels to actual road usage. This will mean that even the guy who charges his EV up from electricity produced free via solar, will still pay his share for the upkeep of the roads.
The only one that slightly interests me is the Tesla Model 3. I want a reasonably fast saloon or coupe, not a painfully slow crossover or a hatch.
There are actually very few "painfully slow" EV's. Even a Humble Hyundai Kona can sport a 0 - 60 time of around 7.5 seconds.
@@Brian-om2hh that’s slow? 7.5 seconds? Jesus, turn on the air con it’ll struggle to go uphill, fast is under 5 seconds,
@@MatthewA7 most normal cars are not doing 0-60 in under 8, so by them standards that is quick tbh
@@BOSKILLZX really? A bmw 320d one of the most popular cars on the road does 0-60 in 7.1 seconds, the only cars on the road who do it in 8 or more are kids cars or old people or people that literally do not care about cars, but if anyone thinks 0-60 in 7.5 seconds is fast, I have no idea what you are on
@@MatthewA7 come on this is poor logic, a 320d is definitely fast. As a proportion of ‘normal’ cars there’s not THAT many. For example I had a Astra J 1.6 turbo, that was top of the line (other than VXR). That done 0-60 in just under 8 and by no means did it feel slow. Excluding ‘premium’ cars, majority of these Vauxhall’s, fords, nissans etc are not doing under 8
The only problem I have is no sound, no manual and I just love engines. It adds to the emotional appeal of a car.
Driving an Ev’s has own way of having fun and these can be really enjoyable, once you try the right car there is no way back .
EVs will never authentically provide the sound of an internal combustion engine; however, the sound, heat, and vibration produced by an ICE is nothing more than wasted energy. It's also already common for newer ICE cars to pipe in fake engine sounds through the speaker. I actually enjoy the quietness of driving an EV. I love driving a manual transmission, and I prefer a single gear EV over any automatic transmission. Driving an EV with a high level of regen feels a lot like engine braking in a manual ICE.
What you are experiencing is learned behaviour. It meant nothing to you before you ever drove a car. You learned it, you will unlearn it in time.....
Wow a motoring journalist that knows what they are talking about when it comes to EVs 👍
Yes, you can certainly tell he hasn't worked for the Daily Mail.......
Absolutely brilliant no nonsense dialogue to the subject matter . Well done and thanks for sharing 👏