Disney's Forgotten (And BEST) Twist Villain
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- čas přidán 2. 06. 2024
- Today we're taking a look at Disney's best twist villain. Atlantis, The Lost Empire might be largely forgotten alongside it's villain Lyle Rourke, but I contend that Rourke is the best Disney twist villain to date. Together we'll take a look at some other examples of Disney Twist Villains and see why most don't work as well as examine how to make a great one.
Twitter- / 4shame2
Second Channel- / @4shame232
Sources
Clips Used
Atlantis, The Lost Empire
Big Hero 6
Zootopia
Frozen
Toy Story 3 - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Helga: “There weren’t supposed to be people here. This changes everything.”
Rourke: “This changes nothing.”
This is the biggest clue that the character has ulterior motives and something is up.
Nah he always had villain face and vibes.
that dude should simply go away with treasures and and try to not sacrifies his allies instead of get rid of helga and his other men. the union make strenght, that's well known
Agreed and even Helga seemed scared by that.
@@junejuly6060 Technically everyone was allways under the impression they will pillage the remains of atlantis. They expected everyone in atlantis to be dead thousands of years ago. Milo works in a musieum he expected them to be dead and he will take the treasure and artifacts for musiems and everyone understood that. However the introduction of life in atlantis introduced a moral conundrum do you change course since people are still alive or do we pillage anyway.
Funny thing is that he doesn't suddenly change demeanor once he takes on the villain role. He always has that since minute one
Another moment that hinted at Rourke’s true nature was this exchange between Helga and him.
“Commander… there weren’t supposed to be people down here. This changes everything.”
“This changes _nothing.”_
That was the point when I was younger that I figured out he was up to something and was most likely a villain.
That line was a little too unsubtle. It's really more like a giveaway, because it's basically begging the question of "What do you mean "it changes nothing"? Are we just going to steal all their stuff or something?"
It was close to the end of the film. If your gonna have a plot review then it has to be at least given some time to make it obvious that there up to something. Otherwise the audience goes wait what why are they evil all of a sudden they seemed like good people.
Exactly so it didnt make him subtle at all
@@AndrewChumKaser I agree it’s not subtle but I think by that point in the film it’s justified, the only reason Rourke was being discrete was he wanted to be sure of where Milo stood (which is my one complaint about his character, I don’t know what Rourke saw from Milo that made him think Milo could be won over, but the audience doesn’t see anything to suggest that and it beggars belief an intelligent villain like him would make a foolish assumption like that).
Love that Atlantis and Emperor's new groove have both grown into beloved classics over the years. They were very before their time
Atlantis, The Emperor's New Groove, The Road to El Dorado, Treasure Planet, Lilo & Stitch, The Iron Giant... I swear the best and most lasting animated movies are never big commercial successes.
@@Strait_Raider fr
I fully agree.
I'm surprised that this movie was such a flop. This was one of my favorite childhood movies and up until recently I had no idea that it did poorly.
Same I used to watch it over and over lol
People dislike Atlantis? I can understand critics, but have never meet anyone who's watched the film and disliked it. It was one of my favorites as a kid.
I used to watch that movie over and over when I was a kid, Heck I still have the movie as a VHS and a DVD on my shelf
@@MayFleet Never owned the vhs, but I now have the blu-ray/dvd copy.
thankfully people are realizing that this is an underrated gem
@@marcogentile3392 People always realized that
@@Emanuele246gi whoops, i meant "critics" my mistake
Atlantis the Lost Empire was not hated by audiences, it not only made profit but it became a cult classic.
It's poor performance compared to other disney movies is attributed to being released at the same time as Shrek.
Me and my family loved the movie when I was a kid.
Samee! I loved it, and i hated Frozen without knowing why (maybe i should watch some more rants about it to find out why)
One detail that nobody ever talks about is that Rourke does NOT start the movie as a villain at all. Yes, he's a mercenary in it for the money, but that does not mean that he'd have any reason to do anything antagonistic.
Then 2/3 of the crew are wiped out by the Leviathan. Men and women he had served alongside, who looked up to him as a commander, their deaths are on his hands, and he refuses to put any of the blame on Milo for being the reason they came to find Atlantis.
Then they meet real, Living Atlanteans, and you can see the goodness in him quickly die out.
Another line that hinted at Rourke’s villainous nature is when the crew are first driving into Atlantis.
Helga: Commander, there aren’t supposed to be people down here. This changes everything.
Rourke: *stone faced* This changes nothing.
It implies that, unlike Milo (who, during that same scene, is “like a kid at Christmas”), Rourke has something bigger on his mind than just finding Atlantis.
Also I noticed for the first time all the SUS facial reactions he gives. He’s always smirking
I think a big reason why Atlantis didn't get a lot of love is Disney made this a straight up adventure movie. No singing or musical numbers. They did this with the Black Cauldron and Treasure Planet too, and for whatever reason, when Disney does that style, they don't do as well at the box office and are not as fondly remembered.
I think this pans out mostly. There are a few well loved exceptions (Lilo and Stitch for example) but overall it's just nice to have a good series of songs.
it's a shame because Atlantis and treasure planet are some of my favorite movies
I think it was more the audience at the time being so accustomed to traditional singing disney... I feel like now in this current state the audience is more likely to appreciate this form of non musical stories like atlantis. Such a shame that disney wont go back into this type of drawn animation again.
Hans would've worked if they had made him honest. If they had done the kiss, have it not work, and then have Hans start panicking and lashing out, everything he did could have been a lot more justifiable. He wouldn't have wanted to kill Elsa until he felt that maybe killing her was the only way to save Anna, and it would make him a much more sympathetic character.
Majorly agree.
If nothing else, it would make him more relatable, though it would also have worked significantly better as a twist than what was given.
Yes! He would then still lock her in the room (this time without putting out the fire) to keep her from stopping him as he feels he's doing what is best, then she sacrifices herself to stop his blade, choosing Elsa over herself. Elsa's sisterly love revives her like before, and then Anna realizes that her thing with Hans was a mere crush on both sides, while her thing with Kristoff was more feasible since they spent more time together.
Not sure what would happen with Hans afterwards though.
No it would of worked had they not explicitly shown him giving doe eyes too her when there was no reason for him to do so as an act which is why I like the theory that the rock troll people were manipulating everyone I think matpat did a film theory on this.
True!!
Part of it that really sold me on their villainy was when Milo was talking with the group and getting to know them. There's a moment when he's all wide eye and happy, blissfully running off about his reasons for wanting this adventure. Yet when he questions the rest of the group, their only motivation is "money".
It shows just how much of a Fish-out-of-water Milo is compared to everyone else and cemented the idea that something was wrong. They're all presented as good people with their own unique backstories and origins, all are connected yet in a normal world, so many different personalities and specialized people wouldn't gel well together unless there was a truly common and underlining reason and what more selfish reason could a group of people have than to simply be "rich".
It's why the reveal hit so hard yet fit so well. Milo is the only one seeking honest adventure. He's genuine, curious and friendly. These people, he doesn't truly know them by that point and despite finally accepting him into the group, their intentions don't line up in the slightest and I love that. It's so on the nose your mind doesn't think twice about it when it hears it. It's natural to want to get paid for what you do for a living and that's why it works so damn well.
Underrated film
Sadly the world runs on money. Sure we all do different kinds of work to earn that money. But when your in the business of raiding tombs and uncovering ancient civilizations, it’s most likely your in it to get rich despite the consequences of your actions.
Helga: there were not supposed to be people down here. This changes everything.
Rourke: this changes nothing.
The biggest villain flag and the only reason Rourke is a villain, if there were no Atlantians he could be like Indiana Jones, Lara Croft, or Scrooge McDuck.
Very true and even though this conversation with helga gives him away, we certainly didn’t think the entire crew would be in on it
One of the fun things about Rorke is that he did show a few heroic qualities for the sake of throwing the viewers off. His villainous hinting was more subtle but his heroic actions were more present such as him taking the time to hold a vigil for the crew that died during the leviathan attack. It's pretty important for a twist villain to express behaviors like that
Thank you, I was hoping someone would mention the part where Rorke was active in the vigil. I felt it was important that the film specifically had Rorke give the narration of how many crew members they lost because it kinda shows that while he was a coward in not checking the crew before escaping, he at least feels some of the weight of the loss in life it took to getting closer to Atlantis.
It also shows why the whole crew was loyal to him. Had Rorke not been needlessly violent to milo and beat up an old man, they probably would have left with him. That’s why they were really there after all, to make money. They’d make money for sure, but people would die, slowly and surely, and it’d be inevitable. Milo just appealed to the decent qualities that some of them had. That’s why Audrey had an irritated look on her face because the nerd with glasses was right.
@@lunartears6761 I mean had Atlantis been abandoned I doubt even Milo would care if Rorke took a decent amount of the treasure for profit since his only goal was to prove its existence. It's the archeological find of the century so what if the mercs who helped you find it take some gold and jewels to compensate for their efforts?
Hell had Rorke been even remotely patient instead of letting his greed get the better of him the Atlanteans would have just LET him walk away with some trinkets. But greed just got the better of him I guess
What I love about Rourke is at the turning point he offered Milo a genuine opportunity to join him, meaning all that admiration for Milo's intellect and capacity as a linguist wasn't feigned and that he genuinely saw a use for Milo that despite not being part of the original deal he was willing to cut him a share regardless. It's only after refusing him twice does he turn hostile towards Milo.
I think another big part of the twist working is that you completely buy that Milo couldn't have figured it out, despite having lived with those people for weeks, and not because he is naive (even if he also is that) but because he is so passionate about Atlantis that he cannot even conceive that someone is doing it for any other reason, finding Atlantis has been his single life purpose for years, it makes complete sense for his character that the thought never even crossed his mind.
Another bit of foreshadowing you forgot: When the crew first arrive at Atlantis, Helga says that the fact that their are people still alive changes everything. His response: "This changes nothing". This hints to the mercenary twist, as well as the fact that he's much less humane compared to the rest of the crew
I love how they nailed his personality. This guy seems approachable, even as a mercenary. Even tho that it seemed kinda obvious to me since the beginning that he’d fit the evil general archetype for the story to progress, the fact that the whole team was evil (and how they unraveled it) took me by surprise. A well developed twist villain from a greatly developed movie. Great vid!
Thank you! Lyle’s always been one of my favs
To be fair, the crew straight up said "Money" when Milo asked them on why they joined the expedition, so it was also foreshadowed to that twist later on. But at least they redeemed themselves unlike Rourke.
@@phillipwalling7470 the twist is that they were villain protagonists in the way they were spotlighted as the plucky band of adventurers our here is part off.
@@4shame ok but Weasoltown as the villain for frozen would be the absolute bomb
I agree- and that’s what makes him not only a great villain but a scary villain
In terms of the, Hans didn't need to be a villain, point. Disney had the golden opportunity to show the difference between infatuation and romantic love. They are different. Disney could have written Hans like Anna, isolated with a need for attention/affection that was established for both in the film. Hand didn't need to be re written until the twist.
Hans and Anna kiss, but nothing happens. They are both confused because they both thought they were in love. But it wasn't it was infatuation and affection that they craved that they mistook for love. But Hans is crushed thinking Anna is going to die takes off to confront Elsa, leading to the conclusion that to save Anna and the innocent people of the kingdom Elsa must die. Movie ends with Anna wishing Hans well in finding his place with some awkward goodbyes and parting on good terms.
THERE fixed the movie without having a twist villain and keeping Hans in the story.
That sounds really good actually
more like a antagonist than a villain, but i agree with you
That woukd have honestly been a million times better and I loved the movie (didn't mind the Hans reveal whatsoever).
People dislike Atlantis?!
I always put it up there with Treasure Planet and Road to El Dorado as one of the most underrated animated films.
I know right? the other day I showed it to my gf cause it`s my favorite Disney movie and she went like "meh". WHAT DO YOU MEAN MEH BITCH THAT`s A MASTERPIECE
@@wypera6536she not the one
Atlantis was widely hated by Audience? When? Critics I can see, but ever since this movie came out I've been hearing nothing but praise.
yea me too
i get that it was a bit of a flop but i've never heard someone say that it sucked
Who's shitting on atlantis? I've never heard anyone consider this film anything but an underrated but beloved classic
And it had two of the baddest, brown skinned chicks in disney, Kida, and Rocio Ramirez
when it originally came out people didnt go and see it cause at the time all the Disney movies were either princess movies or musicals, so for this action adventure film to come out it was a big change in their normal line-up so people didnt really go and see it because it was a big shift from what they had done previously, which is a real shame cause this is a gem of a movie and my favourite Disney movie by a mile
@@thegamertrio6827 this, Treasure Planet, and the aristocats are my top 3 "disney movies that should be remembered as great/awesome, but nobody saw em". Cuz trust and believe, when i would bring up those movies, most people had either certain scenes, or small memories of em, or never heard of em at all... Aristocats is top 10 disney movies for me
That was largely the reaction at the time of its release, hence its poor box office performance. It became much more appropriately appreciated later, though still spectacularly underrated.
the movie was a mix of annoying cliches and clumsy attemps to be mature
Also, Hans “saved” Elsa bc there were a TON of people there, and it made him appear good natured. At that point in the movie, he was planning to marry into power, and maybe axe them off later. He only revealed his nature when the opportunity to have them both die without hurting his image and skipping the marriage entirely presented itself.
TLDR: He was in it for the long con, but found a shortcut and stopped faking nice.
Good points! I think Hans is a perfectly decent twist villian. :) Sure, he is not that relevant to Elsas story, but he plays into Annas character arc and ties them together for the climax.
I wasn’t even aware that ppl hated Atlantis
Right? I knew people forgot it existed, criticized it as too steep of a departure from Disney's other work, but like. People actually hate it?
Critics not liking Atlantis I could understand as there are some fairly obvious sections where it needed more work or a better smoothing over, but the general audience? I'm very confused.
Me neither, I'm shocked 😱 Still one of my favourite childhood movies to rewatch! The German dub is fantastic by the way! Some of Ms. Packard's lines in that Berlin dialect are still inside jokes between my brother and me 😂
Yeah its truly shocking 😲
I would say it's simply not true. People didn't hate the movie. Not the general public and not the critics. There were some critics who thought the movie was too mature for the typical disney audience, but that doesn't mean they hated it. And some had fair criticism of the plot. It simply wasn't super popular at the time. And still isn't all that popular or well known. That doesn't equal hate.
Don't forget the interaction between Helga and Rourke driving into Atlantis itself:
H: Commander, there weren't supposed to be people down here, this changes everything
R: This changes nothing
Atlantis and the Treasure Planet are the two gems of animation surprisingly few people talk about
Can I add titan AE? the story treasure planet took ideas from?
I love all three, but they (disney) did titan AE dirty.
@@trc8197 that is anether movie from my chiled hood that was ahead of its time
Yeah. According to rumors, The studio wanted Treasure Planet to fail for some reason. That's why they released it on purpose so close to the 1st Harry Potter & Philosopher's Stone...
Making clear: as far as I know, it's just a rumor. But either way the time of the release date gives some explanation for why Treasure Planet was so soon forgotten.
In that new Once Upon a Studio short they will appear (you can find already big picture with both movie characters, but doubt they will talk) so at least I guess Disney still remembers it, but I think actually people talk about it to be well not underrated, but indeed perfect.
Atlantis the lost empire was an excellent movie! Why does no one talk about it?!! It’s to my likings! Perfect plot, epic twists, romance to make us feel single and action!!!
"Everyone hates atlantis"
Excuse me?????
Actually 4shame, to me it makes perfect sense why Milo Thatch couldn't pronounce Kida's name correctly. First off, it's a dead language. How would he possibly know what accent or dialect to use for a name that he has only studied but never actually experienced firsthand. Second, there's a scene in Atlantis The Lost Empire where Milo asks Kida how his accent is and Kida tells him that it's boorish, provincial, and that he speaks it through his nose, heavily implying and confirming what I already just said in that just because Milo understands the language doesn't mean that he has either mastered it or that he fully understands it, for reasons that I just stated. Also, one last thing to prove this, when Milo first tries communicating to Kida in Atlantean he is clearly very slow to speak it and is clearly struggling to both think of and correctly speak it.
And as Kinsfire said in a different comment, she was showing a lot of skin, more than milo'd probably ever seen before. Quite distracting!
lol I agree. "I swim pretty girl-pretty good'. lol@@thekingnerd6639
By the way, in case it wasn't already incredibly obvious, I absolutely love Atlantis The Lost Empire and I truly think that it's an underrated masterpiece. I honestly don't see the plot holes that a lot of other people accuse it of and, even if it did have some, it would still be a great movie in my opinion.@@thekingnerd6639
There are multiple writers as examples for this in history. Non-english speaking writers, who learned english from only reading and thus never learned how to pronounce it.
Arany János is a Hungarian author, who translated Shakespear for example. He was never able to speak english though.
I didn't even know that and yet I came to the same conclusion coincidentally. @@gergelyritter4412
Can someone tell me WHO actually hates Atlantis? Because everyone I've ever talked to about this film loves it. Just because something didn't do well in the box office doesn't mean it was bad and I don't trust the "professional critics" cause I've seen time and time again where they resoundingly hate the movie, but fans absolutely love it. For example: the Boondock Saints. I absolutely love the movie and, according to Rotten Tomatoes, so did the audience, but Critics HATED the movie. So I take the Professional Critics opinions with a grain of salt.
I think the issue was that the movie was more mature than what people associate what Disney movies are typically gear towards, which is ironic because I think that improves the movie's quality as it doesn't pull any punches with its plot or characters.
@@aaronmccullers384 yeah "mature" indeed, I mean: þey DID fight a premature WWI in a volcano crater, had a raþer disturbing transformation sequence and did low-key touch þe topic of human sacrifice.
A lot of movie critics hated it. Honestly, fuck them
@@Beleidigen-ist-Pflicht why are you using the letter thorn
@@GrandProtectorDark
Glass shatters, helium soars and I use þorn.
It's just nature taking its course.
I think the fact that Rourke stays calm the whole time makes him an even better villain, I feel like whenever a villain starts to lose their cool and has a temper tantrum it makes them less intimidating, at least to the audience. When a villain gets mad it says that they know they're at a disadvantage and/or are about to lose, but when they stay calm it gives a chilling sense of uncertainty like they have something up their sleeve that they know will help them win and it makes you question whether the battle is already determined if the hero has as much of a chance as you thought or are they actually doomed to fail in the end.
when he mentioned that he reminded me of Senator Armstrong in MGR Revengeance because during the first and second stages and the final he keeps 'calm', even making one or two jokes
also their body shapes are quite similar
I agree for the most part. The one exception I'd name is Ratigan from "Great Mouse Detective". But that one is acceptable because Ratigan doesn't go nuts out of nowhere; it's consistently shown that he's not as suave and sophisticated as he makes himself out to be. He's a thug and a brute, and it takes Basil outwitting him to finally push him overboard into his true self.
too bad he was ridiculously sadistic just to show he's a bad guy. plus simply the fact to get treasures would make him rich at his surface return
I also like the opposite: Take 'Long John Silver' from the equally-annoyingly-forgotten Treasure Planet.
You >KNOW< he's the villain from very early on... But the character growth in the movie, and the things he teaches the main character make you like him anyway.
He's too likable to be a standard villain because ultimately he genuinely cared about James, AND taught him to be a better person. Including the bit where James explains this, and he is visibly torn between pride in the person James has become, and anger that James is turning his back...
Because he knows that he did that. He taught James to be a better person then he was, and is proud about it.
I also think this is why he doesn't die, because honestly his death would tie things up too neatly for the message that a bad man can be a good father figure, and someone who's lessons you aspire to even when you know they were ultimately a bad person.
Because regardless of that, what they taught you was still valid.
Rourke is so good at flying under the radar because most of the things that could tip you off he's a violent metcenary tip you off that he's a capable military leader. He's calm under pressure, takes decisive actions without hesitation, acts in a manner that encourages others to follow his example for better or worse, and comes ready for a fight always.
Especially because senior officers back then were expected to be unflinching in the face of danger. Like, General Cota landing on Omaha with a cigar in his mouth and leading the pinned down men or MacArthur landing in the Philippines. They were expected to be not just brave, but practically unfazed by danger. Given it's around WWI time, this entirely lines up with that.
Helga actually does survive the initial fall. Which leads to one of my favorite moments of the movie where she says the "nothing personal" line back to him and shoots a flare at the balloon setting it ablaze. This causes Rourke to snap as he'll no longer be able to escape with his loot.
Not much later he ends up turning into an atlantian energy monster, visually showing off what his greed has turned him into, and promptly gets killed off. I'd also like to note that everyone had turned against him by this time, as he'd either backstabbed them, or they couldn't agree with his moral compass. Due to all of this he effectively died alone while on the flip side Milo has a bunch of people who are there to support him.
For even more knife twisting, it's shown at the end of the movie that all the characters who make it back to the surface are set for life. Dude could have retired, but instead loses everything while trying to have it all.
I think what makes Rourke even better as a twist villain is, that the only reason he turns into a villain is because there are still atlanteans. Which also adds to the villainous foreshadowing on top of it: (Pardon if I get this a bit wrong, it's been a while since I saw the movie and I've only seen it in Danish)
Helga: We didn't expect that there would still be people. This changes everything.
Rourke: This changes nothing.
Exactly, everyone assumed it was a dead civilization, ergo looting it should be no real harm. Sure looting a lost civilization is still wrong, but its something alot of people who want money for their dreams can swallow. But outright genocide? No no, that is a line the ones who betray Rourke could not cross.
I do like how that line gives a little humanity to Helga, like yeah she's still compliant (complacent?) in the looting and possible erasure of a lost culture/civilisation but it humanises her. She still feels some amount of guilt, even if it is small.
To add to the conversation a bit, It caught me to off guard when Rourke so quickly betrayed Helga. At the time they were the greatest partner in crime duo. But if you reassess Rourke priorities it makes sense, the rest of the crew ditched him, the only person who can support him is also the only person to hold him in line and accountable now. Just as he saved himself first in the sub when things get dire he chooses himself first. Throwing Helga off of the balloon may have been the next step in his full turn to evil based on the evidence. However, it was still shocking that he would go that far to completely sacrifice personal relations for exclusively money, as the odds of escape were still quite low even after Helga was thrown. After being so quickly turned on it was shocking to see him do the same so quickly. Rourke’s on screen spiral into full villain hood is only a spiral for an audience not expecting it, for Rourke it’s obvious move based on his priorities.
You forgot to mention the that the first foreshadow we see is in his opening line. "... I prefer a good Western..." this lines up with he and the crew's "cowboy" actions against the native Atlantians.
It's true.
It's also a subtle reference to Garner's long career in westerns!
"Pretty pictures, but I prefer a good western myself." - It could easily be taken on first viewing as a throwaway jokey welcome-to-the-team-son line, but if we take it at face value, wouldn't it be very surprising to hear that the leader of the world's greatest ever archaeological expedition isn't fascinated by the book that could lead to Atlantis? Unless of course, these guys are just in it for the money?
For the team we've also got "Unless you guys are just in it for the money?" foreshadowing for the team, Vinny's cavalier destruction of a monumental pillar, and the fact that out of a massive archaeological undertaking, Milo is the only team member with any apparent archaeological skills or interest. They're going to find ATLANTIS, and nobody really seems to be excited about that except Milo. Then there's just how militarized the entire expedition is, and how once the team dismounts most of the non-named expedition members are gasmask-wearing soldiers, the movie shorthand for baddies. But despite this, it's hard to suspect the team of being sinister when they're all so damn charismatic and likeable! It's a great example of how likeable, good-natured people can do bad things.
The best hint of rorke being villain, is when Helga says the population changes plans, he says it wont change anything
"Widely hated by critics and audiences alike"
Critics I'll give you, but _audiences?_ Nah mate, you're gonna need a citation on that my dude, literally everyone I saw atlantis with as a kid, in theatres, loved that shit. I saw that shit 7 times as a child and I keenly remember even the adults enjoying this animated disney film "for kids".
Atlantis is my favourite Disnay animation by far. I also need a citation on that statement because I don't believe him.
Maybe he said that because rotten tomato reviews are low? Most of time when I being up this movie up to people, they talk positive about it. It's truly weird to me, even people in the comments section talk about how they love this movie and don't understand the dislike for the movie.
Yeah. I loved the film.
The dude behind this video is full of shit and is lying about everything. Atlantis was a huge success. It just didn't do gangstalkers at the box office because it went up against Shrek. It made 150% of its budget just from its theatrical release, and it sold *insanely* well in the DVD market, which was seeing its peak at the time.
Audiences loved the film, critics panned it, but it did so well it spawned spinoffs.
From the fact that Rourke was never a "twist" villain to the other lies in the video, it's clear the OP is just trying to make a thinly-veiled callout video, but thinks they might get shit on for saying they didn't like Big Hero 6 and Zootopia.
Actually. For Hans saving Elsa. He wasn't trying to. He wanted to kill her but make it took like an accident, so when he returned to Anna with the news he would marry her and be King. He actually aimed for the chandelier's hook to hopefully drop it on her and make it look like he 'valiantly saved her' but I can get why people didn't pick up on it because him looking up at the chandelier for a few frames might not be interpreted as such.
I've heard that explanation before and I don't buy it.
He could've just pretended to not see anything and let crossbow guy shoot Elsa. The same goal would've been accomplished with less effort and a lower risk of failure. Afterwards, he could've just said something like "I tried to stop it, but I wasn't fast enough" and everyone still would've believed him.
This. How can anybody miss this?
@@Galimeer5 you can literally see hans looking up at chandlier prior to the shot. You can argue it's a bad plot, how can you not buy it when it's literally shown?
@@Galimeer5 You can say that about 99% of all Disney villains' plots ever, including some beloved ones like Scar, Jafar, Ursula (etc) and yet ppl shit on Hans for making the same level of dumb mistakes while ignoring theirs.
This was an excellent breakdown. But what really hit me that I never noticed was Rourke being the first to abandon ship. You’re spot on with that being cowardly and an early sign that he’s being deceptive.
Not foreshadowing the character's villainy will work perfectly if they continue to act the exact same as a villain as what they did as a "good" guy. If Bellweather had remained all sweet and cutesy even after it was revealed she was the baddy, that would have actually worked and been pretty creepy in a Dolores Umbridge sort of way. If Hans had remained in love with Ana even after it was revealed he was a villain, like he wanted to keep her and felt like she belonged to him or something disturbing like that, that would have worked as well. That's what's so great about Rourke in Atlantis, is he's not a twist villain because he's hiding it, but because Milo is so obsessed with his work he doesn't pay attention to it: when Milo figures it out he's horrified and can't believe he didn't see it coming, while Rourke literally offers him a hand and says "well, let's go we got work to do." Rourke acts the exact same from beginning to end, and is more a twist for Milo than for the audience.
A lot of people say this
doesnt make it any less true@@nickmilano2516
@@nickmilano2516 The internet has officially reached a point where it becomes suspicious that a lot of people are saying something that is true.
I actually watched Atlantis not long ago since I'd never seen it, and my first thought was "Oh, the military guy is definitely the villain." But then the movie CHANGED MY MIND. He was friendly and lighthearted, a father-like figure as you said, and so I thought "Oh... is he.. not the villain? What?" So while I might've known just by assuming he'd be the villain by virtue of being "most likely the villain", the movie actually did a great job of hiding that fact, enough so that it literally made me rethink my theory.
Rourke is such a good twist villain. Not just because of everything mentioned here, but also because of how realistic his motivations are, and how they allude to larger themes of colonialism and imperialism. At one point he even says that he would prefer to be called an "adventurer capitalist," rather than a mercenary (although later calls his team mercenaries anyway), and alludes to western countries taking cultural artifacts from other countries by saying "if you gave back every stolen exhibit in a museum, you'd be left with an empty building. We're just helping along the archeological community."
You can really see both perspectives do colonialism in the plot:
On the one hand you have brave, plucky adventurers, traveling to distant lands, braving incredible dangers in the pursuit of knowledge, and yes, wealth as well.
On the other hand, you have the end effects of those adventures, how the native people are exploited for their resources (the crystal) and left to die as it suits the mercenaries.
Atlantis is an amazing story, and honestly still easily one of my favorite movies ever. That, along with Road To El Dorado, which explores many similar themes.
Something I really liked about Rourke is that he isn't really a villain during the beggining, and not in the sense that he just wasn't showing his true self. During the beginning, Rourke's and Milo's motivitions align because the two of them think that there are no natives alive, so their plan from the beggining was to retrieve the crystal from Atlantis, however, once they discover that the natives are still alive, Milo decides to change his mind, but Rourke doesn't and goes on with the initial plan. It's just like with the other side characters. They initally
So yeah, he didn't turn bad or hid a part of himself to Milo, it simply happened that the situation made them decide different
I like that, where he wasn’t a villain until Milo’s principles interfered with his own. Not to mention he didn’t start losing it, until his escape was cut off.
Yes! But I find that you can watch his shift even before they find the inhabitants. He is all suave joyful guy with calm movement in the beginning, but his demeanour starts slipping as the movie progresses. You see the stress of the journey wear down his facade, him having twitchy movements in small moments when something diverges from the plan (though he does catch himself at first, but he slips up more and more over time), and in the end this smooth talking relaxed faced guy has this manic expression with wide eyes and gritted teeth grin, and erratic, sudden movements. And him turning into blue guy just emphasised how much he has become unhinged by the end.
I believe Rourke *really* is this guy he is at the start. That is his demeanour in normal life. But the stress and hardships of his plan not quite working out, make him become unhinged. And in the end, he loses himself, his natural manner, and his entire humanity. It is *absolutely* brilliant.
@@Jaessae everything you said, is why i like rourke as a twist villain. he became deranged gradually, instead of just being revealed to be evil out of nowhere.
I'm shocked that you completely overlooked the biggest foreshadow that Rourke was going to be the villain. Unless i missed it in the video. When they finally discover atlantis and Rourke and Helga are in the jeep crossing the bridge.. they briefly mention that "there was supposed to be nobody here, this changes everything"... and Rourke says "this changes nothing" in a sinister manner
Thinking about it now, Rourke's intelligence speaks because he also deduced the right page that indicated Atlantis' had a vastly powerful treasure.
Granted, he could've reached that conclusion with a torture or two, considering how he manhandled the aged King of Atlantis later.
Atlantis was universally disliked by critics and audiences? Really? I honestly never knew about this - i just always thought it was one of those good Disney films that slipped through the cracks. I always considered it the second of my favourites - just behind Treasure Planet.
Well, I'll still love it. Lots of fond memories.
It was a hit with audiences it's a cult classic for a reason it's like how hocus pocus was considered a flop but became a cult classic with audiences
@@ayajade6683 Ah, that makes a bit more sense.
"widely hated by critics and audience alike"
I never understood why, Atlantis is a fond memory for me, It might not be the best movie but it's pretty high up there but what can you expect from people that don't value Treasure Planet.
When you think about it, it actually makes sense that Milo can't pronounce Kida's name. It's shown when he talks in Atlantean to her when they arrive at Atlantis that he struggles with pronunciation. Additionally, Kida later tells him Atlantean is spoken through your nose. This makes sense because a big part of learning a language is speaking & listening, especially when you're the only speaker in your area. And, naturally, longer words are harder to pronounce (I mean, when you learned the word "congratulations", it's pretty tough, especially in your non-native language). There's a full wiki page on Atlantean that explains pronunciation, grammar, etc., like how "h" is pronounced as a "kh". Milo, being from the modern world, likely had trouble figuring this out.
(This is from a person who loves conlangs and languages and whose favorite Disney movie is Atlantis)
All aside, thank you not only for validating how fantastic Rourke is, but also sharing this incredibly underrated movie!!
That's a great detail! (even if I do believe I'm not quite smart enough to figure out conlangs). Credit belongs to the writer who put in that small detail!
I hated Hans as a villain. Frozen always seemed more like a “man v. himself” conflict. There’s literally no reason for a traditional villain
Also, in addition to being so buff and strong and in his mid 50s, can we also talk about how Rourke is *so smart* and *skilled* as both a tactician and fighter?!?! I mean, he uses strategical reasoning to figure out where the Crystal Chamber is, gain the king's trust just enough to let his guard down (which is very impressive, given that the king was entirely cynical about everyone else until Rourke convinced him), and incorporate not just brute strength without his weapons, but highly skilled, masterful martial arts into his combat?!?!?!
Without his guns, Rourke is still insanely strong. And he's that strong and buff in his middle ages, not even in his prime... and without his strength, he is a highly skilled martial artist and combatant. And without combat feats, he is an *extremely* intelligent and analytical tactician. He's actually the full package.
We *never* see any other Disney villains that's both the brain *and* the brawns of his team... but Rourke somehow manages to do it all. It's hard not to like him, despite his role as a villain.
Par for the course in World War I(the setting of the film BTW.) Recall George Patton and Lawrence of Arabia earned their stripes fighting alongside their men and those two remarkable commanders displayed that a truly deadly commander has to also be the deadliest warrior around.
@@jeffreygao3956 True. But that's what makes Rourke so awesome and borderline admirable if not for his villainous tendencies. I wish that he and Helga had gone out together, because Rourke seemed to really have the back of, and sacrifice himself for and protect, those who were loyal to him.
He shouldn't have killed Helga, but instead protected her until they both went down.
But your Arabian soldier analogies only make Rourke even more impressive.
@@lancekeith7900 I disagree that he should have gone down with Helga. Like was brought up in the video, when push comes to shove, he's in it for himself. Damn anyone else. It stays true to his character.
However, it also sticks with one of my favorite Disney traditions of the villain making a choice that makes their defeat possible, or otherwise directly results in it. Him throwing Helga over created a situation that he wasn't going to escape from.
@@dustinwashburn1283 Yeah, I guess that you're right. He should've disarmed her/removed her gun from her person before throwing her out haha. He could easily have done it (obviously) by overpowering her.
However, I don't know, I still wanted at least him and Helga to stay loyal to each other. They had a strong dynamic and were there for each other from what it seemed.
I get what you're saying, but still wish that he'd gone down with her like a ride-or-die duo.
@@dustinwashburn1283 I think that a better way of saying is that I *wish* that he had been more willing to actually self-sacrifice and protect his team, like he made himself seem to be.
That would've made him an even more complex, likeable villain than he already is. Rather than just a predictable selfish bad guy. I wish that he'd at least looked out for those who were loyal to him, like Helga, because she at least seemed to believe that he would protect her from all danger.
"I consider myself an even-tempered man, it takes a lot to get under my skin! Well congratulations, son; you just won the solid gold cupie doll!"
That line and it's delivery have been stuck in my head for twenty years
Another hint of his ulterior motives/ uncaring nature and willing to do anything is when Helga says "There weren't supposed to be people here, this changes everything."
and his response "This changes nothing."
That's a very blatant indication that he'll be the villain. The movie is really not subtle about it imo.
I legit just made the same comment lol, he really left out the biggest tell that these guys were bad news.
Audiences hated Atlantis??
"....BULLSHIT!!!" -George Carlin
"See you got that journal, *nice pictures..."*
Such a brilliant and subtle way of telling the audience that he read through the journal and took the missing page well before Milo even got the journal. Combine with the "enriching" line and the movie sets up his motives in the very scene he's introduced in, but it so reliably goes below the first-watcher's radar that when they do make the connection it hits like a ton of bricks. That, and all the wonderfully quotable lines from him make him one of my top animated villains, not just in Disney.
Bellwether does have _one_ indication: her name. A bellwether is the leading sheep of a flock, typically with a bell on its neck. In the movie, Bellwether effectively leads the city to believe that predators are bad. One problem: _basically nobody knows what a bellwether is!!!_
Someone has probably mentioned it already, but the quote at 11:15 is important. "Nice pictures" proves he knows the book contains pictures, specifically ones of the crystal. By that same logic we can assume he purposefully ripped out the page and had this all planned from that moment. "of Ole Thaddius" also isn't really a sign of respect either -- you could extrapolate that he doesn't hold respect for Milo or his father, which is what he says during the villain reveal.
I don’t know why more people don’t appreciate Atlantis it’s a great movie
oh yes....
Regarding Hans, I maintain the situation would've been a lot more intriguing if Hans was a good guy, but when he went to do the "True love's kiss" thing on Anna, have it fail (almost like "love at first sight" might not be the same as "true love," *IMAGINE THAT!*) and leave them both confused and distraught. Hans then goes to try and kill Elsa in a desperate attempt to save Anna, and then you can have Anna get frozen and Elsa uses the sisterly love thing to save her. Hans realizes that maybe the love at first sight thing isn't all it's cracked up to be. We didn't *need* a *villain* there.
uugh, that's even better than the "hans was enchanted by trolls" theory, and so simple too!
@@sandrols7 Enchanted by trolls is the dumbest shit I've ever heard, so ofc it came from Matpat 🤣🤣🤣
"widely hated by audiences"
I'm sorry. I buy the critics being critic's, but who the hell thought this movie was bad!?
My thoughts exactly. I watched this movie growing up and I loved it.
People with poor taste in movies thought it was bad. Atlantis was my favourite Disney movie of all time, and really still is, much as I liked Zootopia, it wasn't better than Atlantis.
Absolutely love Atlantis, it’s awesome
I can almost guarantee it's the parents that don't like a light amount of blood and a woman in a tank top.
I guess the audience "hated" it in the sense that not many showed up at the theater
whoa, Atlantis is hated? That was top 5 for me in my childhood along with Aladin, Tarzan, Eldorado and Planet of Tresures
I don't know, I think they might be doing a live action soon. For some reason I've noticed Atlantis posts and videos recommended to me at 50000x the normal rate. It doesn't make sense so I assume Netflix is paying for it to be shilled.
I'm sorry, who is out there hating on Atlantis? I've always been under the impression this movie is beloved, just under-watched...
Back when it came out, and in the years after movie reviewers really blew up on CZcams, it was considered sub-par or low end for a Disney movie. A lot of people had mixed feelings on it most leaning towards negative. I always loved the movie, since I was a kid, but still can't deny it isn't well liked as it should be. It's no masterpiece, but it's still really good.
How I would fix Hanz. Don’t make him a villain. When Anna tells him the true loves kiss will save her. He initially thinks it’s a silly idea but they try it. It doesn’t work because they basically rushed into their relationship and their love is more puppy love rather than genuine love. Hanz then tries to find another way to save Anna and thinks killing Elsa would save her. In this way he isn’t a out of left field malicious asshole wanting his own kingdom, but a guy doing what he thinks might save the girl he kinda likes.
I will also point out there are actual indications of his villainous nature before hand. Especially in the example given in the video the full scene is Guard aims at Elsa, Hans looks UP at the chandelier, Hans runs over and pulls the guards arms up and the arrow hits the chandelier. He knew exactly what he was doing there and was trying to look like a hero while killing Elsa otherwise he had no reason to look up before acting.There are other ones through the film but they are fairly easy to miss unless you watching for indications.
this sounds 10x more interesting that what we got
To be honest, I actually was surprised how badly received *Atlantis: The Lost Empire* was. I thought was a great film
I never understood why Atlantis the Lost Empire was so poorly received. It is actually the favorite Disney movie of mine!
The biggest problem with hans is when she leaves him in the boat. He *smiles* . He is alone and he *smiles* . Nobody is around but us, there is no reason to play the part of a loverboy. Yet in the end he acts like he never loved her. If that were true he should've had a grin. A devious grin, not a smile.
Atlantis actually got hate?! It's definitely one of my FAVORITE Disney films.
And I agree that Rourke was a twist villain that was actually clever.
Who the FUCK saw Atlantis back in the day and thought it was BAD? Are these the same people that hated Treasure Planet?
I seen it..I think I was traumatized but it was still good
these movies lacked of ambition
@@darassylmoniakam disagree, but even if that was the case, does that make it bad? No!
@@lorenzoniccoli99ln Thank you!
So underrated. Atlantis and Treasure planet are two of my favorite classic Disney movies
Same
One thing that should be mentioned is that halfway through the movie, they reveal everyone's motivation for going on this trip is money, likely including Rourke. While it's not portrayed as the best thing, it's not portrayed as evil. It only becomes evil when you see how far Rourke and the others were willing to go to get that money.
I also like how Rourke doesn't immediately try to kill Milo but instead offers him a part of the deal, even reasoning with him as a historian. IT really adds to his character and makes him more than just dumb muscle.
I have literally never heard anyone express anything about Atlantis: The Lost Empire but nostalgic reverence.
It's a case of "vindicated by history." Possibly a bit of "Ahead of Its Time," too. Alice in Wonderland did badly when it first came out. Then the '60s hit and people suddenly could identify with the wacky plot.
Also, I saw this movie shortly after it was release to home video and liked it. I missed the first couple minutes, though, so I was *shocked* to find out it was *Disney.* That might've been part of the problem. It was so far outside of what people expected from the company.
It deserves it too. The film achieved believable adults that kids didn’t lose interest in. I didn’t really understand much of the plot at the time because I was 5-6, but I do remember the characters and realizing that the movie was different in a good way from most of what Disney was doing at the time.
If they would have invested more money into stuff like this, they would been bound to a have a couple critical successes. Unfortunately, Atlantis doing poorly in the box office began the nailing in the 2-d coffin that ended 9 years with the Princess and the Frog.
"Widely hated by critics and audiences alike-"
*Excuse me what.*
I never really saw him as much of a twist villain because his similarity to Clayton from Tarzan and his military nature made me (and many others from my experience) suspicious of him from the very start, though the fact that the entire team was in on it definitely was a twist only really hinted at by their admittance during the journey that they're all in it for the money
I never thought/realized that this movie was apparently hated, I just thought it was greatly forgotten and underrated, I've never heard anyone say that they actually hated it
I remember an essay someone did about Atlantis and how well animated each characters’ hands were and how they amplified their character. In Roark’s case, in most scenes save for the twist and final confrontation, he’s got his hands behind his back. While that is the typical position for a man with military background, it’s more telling of someone who’s hiding secrets and information, and who doesn’t trust others, he doesn’t want to show his metaphorical hand in who he really is and what he’s really planning.
Atlantis has been my favorite movie since I was a little kid, I'll never understand the slander it got! Awesome analysis!
Thank you!
I think I 🤔 know why....
@@mrquake7789 y
@@emberdragon4248 the way its marketed and mixed reviews
There's nothing wrong with Milo being able to decipher Atlantean runes but not being an expert in exactly what the words they represent are supposed to sound like. There are plenty of dead languages that in real life we've deciphered the meanings of using translations from other contemporary languages but nobody knows how the spoken language actually sounded. The only reason why we know he has some cracks in his pronunciations is that in this case there actually were previously uncontacted native speakers of Atlantean who could provide a frame of reference for the proper speech patterns for the chief users of that language.
Most of what we know about the pronunciation of ancient Egyptian comes from transliterations into languages that had an actual alphabet. Ironic, because the alphabet was actually invented pretty much specifically for transliterating the language. (Note, the alphabet was invented exactly once. All modern alphabets have a common ancestor.)
I never understood why people hated this film. I still watch it from time to time
Whenever I rewatch this movie, I kinda always forget who the villain is, because how believable it is. And each time I am re-experiencing a bit of the surprise. Like "hmm, I remember the blond lady does awesome fighting later on, but who was she.....(half a movie later)... oh...right, she fight Milo!"
The only reason this movie was considered bad was because it wasn’t a musical and therefore critics couldn’t figure out who it was for (it’s a Disney…animated film…without musical numbers? I don’t get it)
And no I’m not joking, I actually read that somewhere a long time ago.
Combo this with a lot more show don't tell storytelling than usual for Disney's works, Treasure Planet kinda had similar vibes despite still being musical moments, and both of these are blamed for ending the Renascence when they bombed despite being quite liked.
I've yet to meet anyone who dislikes Atlantis, to be honest. And why would you? It's an absolute banger.
Oh shit its mortarion.
Please don't give me cancer
@@johithestar414 I'd only do so if you dislike Atlantis, friend. 🗿
Total agreement. Love that movie.
Another thing to point out in his first scene Rourke makes comment about how the journal has "nice pictures" indicating that he's looked through it at least once, he may not have been able to read any of it but obviously saw the picture of the crystal and made the decision to find and steal it hence why he had the page the entire time
Aight dawg I'm late to this party but I gotta point out a scene ya missed in Atlantis that literally tells you they got something planned.
When Kida is leading them, and our two main villains have the short interaction
"There was never supposed to be people down here, this changes everything."
And with a very upset face he responds "This changes nothing"
Rourke is also probably the most realistic villain in Disney history. But the twist is still epic. Every time I rewatch Atlantis, I lose my mind at the "this will be enriching for all of us" line.
WHAT?! PEOPLE HATE ATLANTIS?!?!
PEOPLE HATE IT!? THAT S*** IS MY CHILDHOOD!
Literally my favorite Disney film
I'd say Rourke doesn't really get mentioned as a twist villain because, thanks to Clayton from Tarzan, people already suspected him of being untrustworthy the moment he was revealed.
Not to mention his talk with helga on the bridge gives it away. But we didn’t realize the crew were all on his side and just how bloodthirsty and greedy he really was.
Clayton is more obvious
I recently watched Atlantis, and honestly... Why is it so hated? I didn't even known that
You also forgot the line that was the biggest hint “there weren’t supposed to be people here, this changes everything.” “This changes nothing.”
badass
Yes! I was waiting for him to mention that as the "seed". I think he kinda overstated how subtle it all was. Still enjoyable film tho of course
@@lilpingu1066 I agree with him about what the big twist was, and I think that’s where the real twist “villain” was, the entire crew betraying milo
That last fact that the director of Atlantis also directed Beauty and the Beast and Hunchback is interesting. All three of those films are some of the only Disney movies (at least from the 2D era) to have their villains actually die pretty close to on screen. Rourke is shown heading into the blades and ceiling, Gaston is shown falling to his death, and Frollo is shown falling into flames. It skirts around showing gore or death while still making it clear that hey, this villain is DEAD DEAD and you wont even feel bad because this is not a charming, misunderstood guy, this is an actual evil bastard
I think that Atlantis didn’t do well because was made for a slightly more mature teen audience and didn’t mesh well with the young kid demographic that has always been Disney’s bread and butter.
I remember when atlantis came out the only advertisement I ever saw was on a box of frosties and a teaser on a video. That's it.
As a linguist: it’s totally believable that Milo can’t really pronounce Atlantean. He learned a dead language, out of a book, probably had to reconstruct it himself.
Like, people who learn common languages still struggle over pronunciation, never mind a dead language nobody topside had heard for hundreds of years.
"This should be enriching to all of us" and "This changes nothing" was a good hint about him being the villain
They were good hints. I took it as him being very mission driven and genuinely invested in the expedition's success. They nailed the mercenary with military experience vibe.
Two more things about Rourke that make him an excellent villain. Firstly, even if you missed the other hints, there is one last one that gives away that he's not got good intentions:
Helga: Captain ... there weren't supposed to be people here. This changes everything.
Rourke: [darkly] This changes nothing.
Why would someone react like that to learning that not only are there people here, but non-hostile people who understand your language?
The other is that Rourke changes the scope of the conflict. Before, the most you could hope for for a finale is Man vs Nature - some disaster will occur, possibly wiping the city of Atlantis away for good, Milo goes home knowing Atlantis existed with nothing to prove it. Rourke makes a conflict of interest for Milo - save Atlantis, or let it become known to the world. Knowing that someone hired Rourke to steal the Heart means that there might be more if he gets away, and Atlantis will never be safe. But Milo has worked his whole life, and his grandfather before him, to prove to the world that Atlantis is real. Because Milo is a good person, the choice is obvious - defeat Rourke, recover the Heart, and Atlantis stays secret forever.
I’d say Roark and Mr.Waternoose are the best Disney twist villains, I didn’t see either coming and I trusted them both wholeheartedly, one seemed like a genuine good army guy who had everyone’s best intentions at heart and took deaths as personal failures that he’ll carry forever and the other seemed like a grandfather figure who, although serious, is always in your court. I adore both of these films so maybe I’m being biased, seeing Atlantis in the pictures was an experience I’ve never forgotten
Mr. Waternoose was better
I always enjoyed Atlantis. Another fore shadow they do to show that Rourke's the villian is that he's 1 of only 3 characters to have seen the journal before Milo gets it and whats more is that he confirms he saw what was in it when he commented on the pictures; making him the only character besides Milo's grandfather confirmed to have seen the pages of the book. Since Milo's grandfather wrapped the Journal for Milo it fits in perfectly with the twist that he had the missing page all along.
The second hint I can find is Rourke's temper. There are several points in the movie when the mask slips a hair due to Milo's social awkwardness/incompetence. First is with the truck when he rips off the horn. Second is when they make camp and he hears Milo shouting fire, rather than take stock first or ask what's happening his first thought is "I'll kill him".
He is then later revealed to prefer brute force negotiations when he can charm his way through the encounter with the king. If Atlantis was an empty ruin as they first suspected I'd bet that Rourke could have gotten rid of Milo once he had the crystal to spite him.
I love that Atlantis gives genuine personality to the secondary cast. Dr Sweet (great name btw) for example, is the only one of the crew who doesn’t hesitate to side with Milo. Throughout the expedition he’s continuously shown to be kindest member of the crew. While he may have been on board with plundering what as expected to be a long dead city, he is instantly against it when he learns it will hurt people.
There was also a quick moment when they discover the Atlantians, a fast exchange between Rourke and Helga along the lines of; "There's people in here, that changes everything." "That changes nothing."
It's a blink and you miss it moment, found it when I was older and rewatching old movies.
I loved Atlantis as a kid, I love it now, and the characters have always stuck with me in a way other childhood movies didn’t.
The tension they created and then genuine surprises had me excited the whole time and I’ll never forget it
The thing about the crew is that they make it obvious they're not good guys. They say it straight. They're mercs and the only thing that matters to them in this expedition is their paycheck. We know they're evil but we don't expect they're THAT evil (and they're not)
The one scene that really hints at his or the group's evil nature is when crossing the bridge and Milo's geeking out Helga says to Roark "Sir, there aren't supposed to be people down here. This changes everything." With Roark replying "This changes nothing."
And there's even a hint to Rourke's sadistic nature in the personnel files. He was in command of a U.S Army regiment who was responsible for massacring a Sioux village.
I had to check the old reviews because I was surprised to hear you state the popularity of Atlantis was mixed. Like many of the others commenting, I also thought the movie was beloved but just not popular.
It’s so weird how many good movies are out there that just don’t do well.
Gataca was a box office bomb. Making less than half it's production cost. It's a film that's practically guaranteed to come up in any discussion of ethics in science or genetics due to its mature and well thought out script.
Atlantis is one of my favorite Disney animations ever. So interesting end clever, and has that scientific curiosity as motivation and fascination for Milo with humanity's history. I really liked it as a kid and continues to be a really good movie.