"Not So Duty Proven" Enclosed Emitter Fiasco
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- čas přidán 8. 08. 2023
- In this Initial Thoughts Hatchet Cast episode Eric & Roy discuss the problems plaguing the enclosed emitter optics and share their experiences with these new up and coming "Duty Proven" optics. Best three ways to support us is to come train with us, pick up some gear from our website and from our affiliates using the links and codes below. Make sure you follow Barrel & Hatchet on our other social media platforms to stay up to date on what is happening in the Barrel & Hatchet community. Welcome to Barrel & Hatchet Trade Group.
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The closed emitter saga has been a wild ride so far
Have you run into any problems with closed emitters?
@@C0ochieMeat i doubt most people have even had problems with OPEN emitters
Well like always I am a day late and dollar short but I want to give a thumbs up for the weird leupold delta micro I’ve edc it on a 19x now for a year, probably only got bout 700rds though it, but I am a farm mechanic ,so you can only imagine the hell my edc gear is put through, it’s been dropped for more than 24” twice now once down concrete steps it’s odd to get used to the tiny little window but I found it helps cure some of my drawing mechanic that were pretty terrible now that little cap hanging off the back can be a pain but I ain’t seen one that has aluminum threads that ain’t a pita, oh and I zeroed the thing last year, when we got our rights back here in indianer and until last week I was a one carry gun fella, went from zero Glocks and no interest in a Glock to I have a 19x (op lunchbox dyed the grip purple)& a 20 g5 mos (the dark brick)that’s too bland have to work on the name 😂 have great day all by😎
Hi, as an engineer in aerospace, hermetic seals to keep water out are very difficult and don't tend to hold up long under "duty environment." So, I have been watching a lot of the battery life & other claims and wondering how realistic the testing & claims are. Plus how many G you get in a drop or banging into a door OR just from transferred impulse from rounds.
There are a bunch of hermetic seals that last a long time but they are HEAVY and larger gasket materials but everything has some kind of MTTF (mean time to failure) and in the case of the hermeticity, it is low. Additionally everything leaks at some rate, some are just really low. We had to do stuff like fine & gross leak in special chambers after sealing in nitrogen purge environment via laser sealing. That is without the complication of glass on the module.
Kind of expect you should figure on a 3-5 year life to site and possibly the pistols as well. Compromises on life to get performance.
your experience and knowledge are appreciated by the community!@@jamesnewman5426
I’ve got 3 acros, and I shoot at least once a week. Two of them has got heavy use, they look like something from an apocalypse game, but they work flawlessly even in the winter and snow. My 3rd acro haven’t seen that many rounds yet. I definitely trust them.
I just put an acro on my pdp pro and I’m loving it so far. now I’m looking forward to trying the Trijicon RCR.
same here have had P2 for 2yrs with 2k+ rounds on it now, I've flown with it and it still is running great.
Coming back to this video at the 1 year mark with my 509t mounted on my PDP. Around 6k rounds on it now, sub zero shooting, 90+ degrees, rainy and snowy and it’s holding up just fine. Hoping it stays that way
Love the fact that you guys said you actually put some work in with the optics. Most people buy them , never use them and will argue with you to death that they are best just to justify their purchase
Appreciate all the quality and professional information you both provide. Keep it up!
Hey guys I think I might have an idea as to why they fail. My thoughts are based on these three things. Chassis flex, gasket integrity, and interior coatings. The Enclosed Emitters are different from their big-boy rifle counterparts because the emitter rides on the slide. My feeling is this is causing the chassis to flex and lose gasket integrity. When the gasket is compromised dust and moisture get in because the nitrogen escapes and pulls dust in as it leaves. The dust now coats the inside of the glass and moisture loves dust. I had a similar issue with my broadcast lens. Vibrations in transport (even if in a padded case) can lead to gasket failure and once that happens the lens will be forever compromised.
This is great info.
I firmly agree with your statement about gasket integrity. I had a Steiner mps completely fail on me and when Steiner replaced it they added a much larger gasket to the rear lens.
Not chassis flex. The issue is the violence of riding on the slide, the repeated shocks to the internals. The housing isn't going to flex significantly if engineered even half-arsed. The lens-to-housing fit may have tolerance issues under slide cycle violence, but that would be assuming the engineers didn't realize the optic was reciprocating violently on the slide.
If none of these factors were properly considered already, most RDS on slides would fail quite early.
I think you're correct that it has to do with being mounted to the slide, and the ensuing violent reciprocations that shock the internals.
Thank you for continuing to bring feedback from the range to a wider audience. Some of the premium brands have gotten too accustomed to having smoke blown up their asses, when in reality they are one to two generations away from losing their pedigree to other companies.
Wow! I appreciate this info from a different “AO”. I am on the coast. I have P1 and P2 and use it for maritime and rural ops- real world. I have 20k plus rounds through both. I have had zero issues.
My opinion is the humidity and temp change vs moisture from A/C to outside is a great QC for how the enclosed emitters are “enclosed”.
Thanks for this info 🇺🇸🏴☠️👍🏻
Great discussion. I appreciate the honesty and unbiased discussion of the video.
That is what we strive to do, and our loyalty is to the BHTG community
I’ve shot 2-3 thousand rounds in about a year with my Holosun 509T. I live in Minnesota and shoot outside in extreme cold and hot humid days and light rain and have had 0 issues with my 509. I also love the ACSS reticle that it comes with off Primary Arms. I recently got a Holosun EPS so I hope i have a similar experience
Thank you for sharing your experiences. I am in North Texas and recently started using a Holosun HS507C on a PSA Dagger and both ran great in a RMR class (600+ rnds in 2 days).
I spent enough time in the manufacturing world to NOT buy the latest and greatest, 1st generation products. I hear my words from you all, as I typed my comments...lol I am waiting for the close emitters.
Parts falling off... Sounds like someone did not use Loctite or the like.
You all do live in an extreme environment with heat and humidity...It is a good place to test things!!!
I use and trust my life with my 508Ts. I've gone through many different red dots and broke a few as well. The ones that just keep going are always my 508Ts. That's what I have on my service pistol and that's what I have on my bedside pistol. I actually have 7 of them on various pistols and one on my rifle as a 45 degree offset. I have a bunch of the 507Cs as well but I've broken a couple of the glass lenses. The 508T just keeps going. I love them.
Love the 508T. My previous RM06 on daily carry was completely corroded from my sweat. Switch to titanium 508T and it holding up brilliantly
Hey guys, big issues to report here.
This past Saturday I attended the Sweating bullets biathlon shooting competition at 17 south gun club in Georgia. My EPS full size MRDS and multiple 509t's ALL failed catostrophically by moisture getting into the button cover during the competition, thus both frying the electronics as well as filling the internal walls of the glass with water droplets/moisture. We all noticed that the button covers either came delaminated slightly during the comp or were potentially not glued on properly from factory. All failed handgun optics were protected by safariland 6390rds and 6360rds holsters when not in use, mine being in a 6360rds.
To be fair, it was an absolutely nightmarish ordeal. Overall run was ~3.8 miles. 93 F° not including heat index throughout the whole day. 7 shooting stages both handgun and rifle. Running course called for total submergence up to the chest/shoulders into literal Georgia swamp mud water at least 3 times WITH mandatory army crawls through sugar sand at one point while being sopping wet and covered in mud. There were quite a few times I had to traverse pluff mud that came up to my waist line. Sad to see that it seems the Holosun enclosed emitter hype train couldn't survive some heat and mud.
To be fair, these were extreme conditions for these optics to survive in. I only wish I knew someone with an Acro P2 to find out if it survived the test.
My acog TA02 and piggy back 508t absolutely crushed it with zero failures.
This is kinda wild. I also live in GA and my 509T has been in over 100 degree temps on a regular basis. Especially last year for that 1 week of 100 degrees. Not a single issue. Even when the weather is in the upper 90s, I haven’t experienced this. Now to be fair: I’m not doing what you’re doing here either. I’m surprised actually
That sounds like a miserably fun event lol, we have a 5k / 10k shooting event like that here next month. I have in the past had holosun fail on me as well it was a full size rifle optic a 512, the fully enclosed rifle mailbox style red dot. They replaced it under warranty but it has left a bad taste for holosun with me unfortunately. I'm giving the 515 a try now. I can't speak to the handgun optics though since I run irons on my main go to sidearm.
Well this is “torture test” for you and your gear, but that’s what these things are suppose to last through….. throwing it off a building or slamming the optic into my tailgate not so much. But just high temps, water exposure mud, all that in your competition there it should certainly live through if it is duty rated, that is standard duty use.
Now years and years of that failing understandable but not one day
Sounds like the heat, vibrations, additional heat from shooting the gun, rapid cool down by submerging the optic, it all feeds into the housing flex theory. Heat and vibration will cause expansion, cooling causes contraction. The gaskets and adhesives simply fail to remain sealed.
I think whether we call this "torture testing" or "regular usage" depends on the end user. For a typical American CCW guy or a patrol cop I would say this is torture testing. For a run'n'gun competitor, I would call it standard usage. For military use, I would also call this standard usage. I have patrolled through plenty of waist deep swamps, been rained on then sugar cookied with moondust, sweated on my gear so much that I looked like I had been submerged in water, and operated in environments that exceeded 120F or -20F for extended periods; not to mention parachuting or fast roping where you and your gear smash into the ground if you have a bad landing (or sometimes any landing), getting submerged in water or swamp mud for any of a million reasons, or guys falling off stuff like trucks, roofs, caving ladders, etc. So again...really depends on the end user.
Thanks for the honesty, now I have to rethink my choices
And to add,
As with arctic warfare, when warming up, you never bring your blaster into a tent with heat or by the fire because the lense will take 60+ mins to acclimate=fog.
I believe this is the same in reverse.
As for lenses popping off, that may be a max temp issue.
All in all , I hope manufacturers see this.
So you’re saying in “artic warfare” say like fighting in Ukraine in the snow. If you travel to outside in the snow and then have to go clear a building. You need to leave the weapon or optic outside and go clear with a knife or find a weapon in the building and just leave your weapon outside the building if it’s heated?? I’m sure that’s fine if you’re playing at a range in the winter lol we coyote hunt through the winter and even with night vision electronic optics and some guys running regular scopes and I carry a Xdm 10mm with a eps out in sub 0 temps then in a heated truck that 70-80 degrees and haven’t had any issues lmao
“Brands don’t have to own up to their mistakes because of brand loyalty…” *coughs in Sig Pistols* *coughs in SureFire*
Wait what did surefire do I missed it ?
@@jamfd3s788apparently his broke. Don’t worry about Surefire. My poor X200 keeps wishing I would let it die
EOTech is #1 in this arena.
@@jamfd3s788not sure, but they definitely overcharge for their pistol lights when streamlight offers the same quality product for half the cost
I've had several fail not the super high end models cause I can't drop that kind of cheddar. But lots if dudes swear by these 300 dollar lights and they fail. To me a light as long as it is reputable is good I run olight and thrunight and they have never failed me. They are a 1/3 the price of the average surefire.
Great topic guys!
I have been running a Holosun 509T (OG model not X2) on my main competition pistol (double stack 1911) for a couple of years now. I have a few thousand rounds through that gun since the optic was attached. I shoot matches throughout the year (spring/summer/fall/winter). I am not seeing any moisture ingress so far. However, I live in Utah where it is a pretty dry climate and the gun lives in a Vaultek Lifepod when it is not being used. I switched to an enclose emitter because it seems like every where I shoot is very dusty, I’m talking the awesome desert moon dust, and I was tired of my optic constantly being full of dust. I’m very happy so far.
Thank you so much for y’all’s information. I ain’t gonna lie. I just purchased a Acro P2 right before watching this and it was a huge leap of faith I took from many different RMRs for my pistol. . . So Crossing my finger here
Any updates? I'm looking to get the P2. 😅
@@jaywill904I wouldn't hesitate on recommending it to anyone. 3 of my buddies bought it after they had a blast with at range day.
I have 2 509t's V1 and so far so good with one of them I've had for 4 yrs and the other for about 3 yrs. Was looking for a EPS MRS for my 2011 but decided to go with the 507 Comp. Love the size of the glass, how clear it is and the dot reticle is very crisp.
Thank you for the update. Enclosed emitters are the future, but for now I'm using open emitters. It seems to me right now they are more like a consumable item like tires, I think right now, the better option is two holosun 507c's. For the price, have one to use and one for a spare while it is getting fixed.
And this is why I'm not an early adopter. I dont wanna pay to beta test someone's product.
Cough SIG cough… beta testing for years
r/sigsauer for the real COPE experience.
Boom exactly. And even when you have a seasoned company, you still need to do your own QC
G45 w/509T v2 (EDC). Over 4k rounds in last 6 months, all outdoors at ares training facility northeast of JTAC. Zero issues so far🤞🏼
Same setup lol
@@assclapper2231 you’re probably right lol. I shoot in the rain all the time but that’s not the same as taking it for a swim or wading through water. I guess I gotta up my training haha
@@assclapper2231 to be fair these gents in the video are not talking about getting them wet or anything else just going from a/ced truck to outside or a/ced building to outside and doing range sessions and it is repeatedly failing. it makes me wary of the 509t because that is what i am looking at for my 1301 so i have both irons and a red dot option.
Again Great content. Keep it coming
The closed emitters are really new, with on-pistol optics being new in general. In previous eras, electronic optics on pistols were affixed to static mounts over the slide. Having something big mounted on the rear of the slide and subjecting it to the tilting barrel recoil is a lot of Gs for such a small item with electronics, especially sealed items.
Great video and much needed I’ve been on the fence on what dot to get and need more videos and info like this
Nice video and relevant topic. I've been using a Holosun 509T now for about a year. I live in Houston and have done countless transitioning between A/C and triple digit temps during shooting sessions. So far so good with no problems due to internal fogging. However, total round count is only around 1,200 rounds. We'll see what the future holds.
I have a Steiner MPS. I use mine in a duty capacity. During training, I purposely put my tools through some serious abuse. No complaints on my end. I do trust my tools if my life depends on them. 🤙🏼🇺🇸
How's the battery life ? I'm hearing mixed reviews
@@goodintentions8714 this would be my only complaint is that the battery life sucks. My battery lasted me 4 months before I ended up changing it out. I than put a fresh battery, and it been around 7 months ish, it’s still working… But let’s see.
I also work in the hill county as well as Houston and have been on duty in the middle of thunderstorms and have no issues with my Holosun 509T and currently have around 1500 rounds through the gun that the 509 T is mounted on.
Have MPS, 509t’s and Kraken’s and haven’t had any issues with any of them. Put the 509’s and MPS through classes as well and no problems. Had all of them for 1yr or more. Probably just lucky but happy with all of them. Definitely looking forward to the Sig and Trijicon enclosed.
For once, I don’t feel bad about having a 507 ACSS on my G19x 😅
where to buy?
@@lithium1770 optics planet
@@lithium1770primary Arms
The 507s are a heck of a dot. Love mine
@@lithium1770optics planet, primary arms etc. Quick Google search holosun 507 ACSS should show you a few options
My only enclosed emitter optic is a Eotech Exps3-2 fairly durable!!!
I bought the Acro P1 last July because I couldn’t get my hands on a P2. Zero issues with the P1-except the notorious low battery life but even in that regard I feel lucky enough that I went until christmas of last year until the dot died so roughly 6 months. Finally got my hands on the Acro P2 now just to “upgrade” the downsides of the P1. Time will tell if I have the humidity issues you guys had/have with the Texas heat. Great video 🤘🏼
Loving my Steiner MPS. Ran in through a class recently involving 2 hours of shooting in a downpour. No issues with moisture or dust.
509t on my duty gun used in rain, personal training and swat training 2/3 years, thousands of rounds, MS humidity (very close to FL if not the same) got 2 of them and both holding up fine for me so far
This is the Best argument for an RMR I've heard in a long time
RMR HD just came out. Basically an SRO with a top-loaded battery and the RMR's more rugged owl hood shape. Kinda puts the lens a bit close to the ejection port. Trijicon also finally released an enclosed optic, the RCR. Shouldn't have the same issues the P2 has, but you never know.
@@Rb889 I know Right
@@Rb889Disgusting price tag.
Not really.
Environment is everything, and there are examples of enclosed emitters taking insane abuse over long periods of time. This is just another data point, and a reminder that Florida is built different.
@@Osprey1994 Fair assessment. The home of Floridaman is not to be underestimated, 99% humidity for 3/4 of the year probably isn't good for anything that's trying to keep water out.
Also, the two new RMR variants are just that, NEW. Price will be more reasonable here in about six months. Still, they're around ~$650 retail, Trijicon's MSRP has always been 'tarded.
Have you gentlemen ever tried a 508T? It’s not a closed emitter, it’s an open emitter-but it is Tuff as nails. Of course mine is a sample size of one, but it’s practically indestructible.
I’m glad you guys are brutally honest about closed emitters. I’ve yet to get/try a closed emitter yet, as I’ve been happy with my 508T/VP9T combo. It’s like they’re made for each other. Anyway, I’m glad you guys are doing this, I guess I’ll wait a couple more years before I get a closed emitter.
Keep up the good work!
Cheers🍻
Still running a DPP on a range gun, and running irons on my carry guns until there's been a proven closed emitter optic without any issues. Thanks for the update on what's going on out there.
Im running an EPS carry, worked well so far. Would like to see yalls updated review as i dont get to put as many rounds on it as i would like.
I have the Cylee Bear closed emitter optic on my Glock 34. I have about 500ish rounds through it and the glass is great it kept its zero. I work security in an air conditioned building having to go in and out many times a night. I haven't had any fogging inside or out. So far so good. It's the dead of summer as of writing this comment. I'll update in the winter. Thanks for the video!!
I'm looking to get one....are u satisfied with your.
I'm thinking of putting it on a glock 22 or 17
This winter we had a stretch of time that was -30 degrees real temperature , but -60 degrees windchill. I bundled up and took my duty rifle and pistol to the range. I let them both sit in the elements for about 20 minutes before I got out and shot them for about 15 minutes each. I have a 509 ACSS on a 2011 and an Elcan on a 13.7". The 509 got notably dim, even on a fresh battery, but was still useable. The Elcan had no issues at all. I'd say I have 6-7K rounds through my Staccato with the 509 ACSS and I have had no problems with the optic. It has been crushed against the cement while Blackhawk T Series holster during a few fights and suffered no damage.
My P-2 had the front lens break on me after a few months. Mounted to a G.45, and had taken a couple spills with it but nothing major. Optic still worked, sent it back to the Swedish Fish Company and they fixed it and sent it back.
I’ve used the Holosun 509T on my duty and CCW G17 for 4 years and never had an issue with it. I can’t recommend it enough. Over 10k rounds and I will always love it
Been running a p1 for years now. Best pistol optic I've ever used. If only it had shakeawake, then i wouldn't complain about the battery life
My ACRO P2 I bought in December 2022. It sits on my staccato P that is also my duty weapon. So far so good. Also know of a swat leader in the metro that had a P2 that is going back for moisture getting in. Has me nervous but I hope mine keeps ticking
I have an offset RMR on the main AR I shoot. It’s had about 5500 rounds through it at this point. I live in the PNW, and did notice that early fall/late spring, when we have warmer rain storms, it would fog up pretty quick. I put some anti-fog spray on it and reapply about once a year, which has completely solved the problem. I train a lot with it. I’ve beaten the crap out of it and even with muddy clay, dusty summers, and endless rain, it’s never been more than just a wipe away (on the emitter, because you can still shoot two eyes open just fine if just the front of the glass gets muddy) from working.
Florida humidity is no joke. Polk county resident here. The Steiner MPS I've used as an offset rds for about 7 months, 4,500 rounds of 556 in 12 range trips.
I've also seen ACOGs fail with their seal. There isn't anything wrong with the concept of enclosed emitters, just the execution currently, which will only be improved upon over time. I was at a match where the rain and humidity was intense enough that EVERY open emitter became totally unusable. Both have liabilities and limits, open just seem to have more liabilities for now. I am every day carrying an EPS carry now and using it for monthly comps, will have to see how it does long term.
My 509T, EPS, and Acro P-1 have done me great on and off duty. I still love my open emitter optics too. No issues with any.
Are you Mojo's friend irl?
@@armorers_wrench 😂 nahhhh I’m real cop in a violent & active city
I’ve got 5 holosun 509t’s, 3 x2’s and 2 x1’s, all have rounds on them, but my two mains are an early gen 1(2500ish rds on it) and an early gen 2, that’s been on pcc’s and pistols(2700ish rds). So far so good. I’m in nc and it’s humid as crap, no fogging at this time. One newer 509tx2 is my daily carry, maybe 600rds through it. Still good. Small sample size, but, pleased so far.
I have a Sig P320 with over 3000 rounds through it that has seen daily use. The Holosun EPS Carry MRS (Green) mounted on it has had no problems, and this is in SoCal. I have a second one with about 2000 rounds that hasn't had any issues, but it is a backup. I plan on eventually trying the new Trijicon RCR since I've never had any issues with my RMRs.
Rcr is solid, i have been carrying it for 4 months now. I also live in socal. Its been carried daily on my stacatto cs, about 1,500 rounds so far. Its built like a little tank. I dont know what the difference in materials exactly are but when u hold the rcr it feels bomb proof premium and my holosuns eps and eps carry feel more toy like. The holosuns havent failed me yet but there is a difference in material with trijicon, and rcr gets brighter for sure. I did have an issue once with a holosun 507c
Just ordered the MPS. It’s my first closed emitter. I have an RMR and 507k on other firearms. Love both of those.
I've had a Holosun 509t for a year and a half. 4k rounds. For the first year I carried probably 15-20 hours per week. The last 6 months I've carried all day everyday. I haven't had any issues, so far it's been awesome. I am in a very dry state so I haven't had any issues with moisture, but it keeps the dust out. All that said, I don't think 99% of people, including me, need an enclosed emitter.
I have a 509t on top of an ACOG on my GP 14.5 Geissele upper/ADM lower for almost 1.5 years. I shoot in WI and MN and haven't had an issue especially in 10 and 20 degree weather up to about 95. It's been fantastic and really opened me up to Holosun. I have an RMR on my pistol but just haven't gone to a 509t because of the issues you guys have reported
How many rounds have you put on the rifle with that set up?
My MPS has been great so far. I have roughly 6k rounds through it and carry it concealed every day for a bout a year. It’s even fell off 2 stories of conex box onto another conex box and the glass was fine and was still zeroed. I have an EPS on a p10f with 3k on it including a class and it’s held up great so far (not intentionally abusing it).
I was told by many internet experts that my RMR was shit because it was an open emitter.
During testing of the Holosun EPS for my agency, 4 out of 5 of our test optics failed submersion tests and had moisture intrusion inside the optic.
Every single one of these closed emitter optics is getting their ass kicked by moisture. Every. Single. One. I just don't trust the design on a pistol.
or I love the one, RMR is trash and Holosun is superior because every couple years you have to take an RMR off and replace a battery OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN FOR THE MOFO HILLS!
Had two gen 1 509ts on my g17 and g19 for about a year. 10k between the two and have zero issues to report. Carried in iwb holster, competition holster, and a safariland. Pennsylvania weather. Rainy winter, hot and humid summers. 509t is still on my 19 as my edc.
I have a holosun eps carry 6 moa green dot on sig 365 xl. Live on the treasure coast, carry it every day mostly on body appendix. I go to the range weekly and take 3 to 5 classes a year. Have about 2000 rounds through mine and love it. Only failure was poor battery tray tightening and flew off during a night class. Found the tray put some electrical tape on and was able to finish the class. Highly recommend. Also have 507k and 407k similar round counts same outcome.
Currently have a 509T on my G17 and have shot about 1000rounds with it mounted and have had it for about 2 years.
Located in Southern California and have not had any issues with it. No condensation, no glass breaks.
Had Acro P-2 for about a year now and have a few thousand rounds down range. Been solid
Y’all are awesome! Love your classes! I would really love more testing and recommendations, I need a new duty optic and was about to get an Acro now I don’t know what to do so pleassse more closed emitter content and testing!
Thanks for the love Hermie and we hope to see you in class again soon merry Christmas and God bless you
Homie*
This is why i like the romeo 2. If it gets moisture in it, i just remove the lid and gasket. Now its open emitter. Clean and reseal at a later time.
Will def have to check that dot out
I’ve got about 2700 through the 509t on my 19x & probably 380” on a rifle with the 509t offset. Live in dusty west Texas, but shoot a decent bit in humid north & east Texas. Both have been fine, no moisture or dust. I’ve got maybe 1200 on a rifle with the MPS on top of my credo 2-10(thanks for recommending this thing, it’s nice so far). It been fine so far. Don’t like the lack of auto on. Was fine fine under nods.
Did break a SRO on its very first drop on my Shadow 2 from about 2.5’ high.
Floridian here. Have been carrying an EPS full size everyday on an MR920. It’s been about 3 months give or take. Weather’s been super humid lately and usually just rock a T-shirt. After about 2K rounds (I get to shoot for free at my shop) I haven’t noticed any issues. Fingers crossed. This made me a little anxious since I own a P2 I’ve had mounted on a Benelli M4 LE.
My first Holosun 509T was just north of the 2k round mark when it somehow ended up with a very small crack in the bottom left hand corner of the glass, which obviously let moisture in. They sent me a new one, took a couple weeks and I've put around 3500 rounds on the second unit with no issues.
Y'alls experience on the EPS on this video is why I got one of those instead of the other options available when I got it. I am in Ohio, its been shot on scorching days and 7 degree days. Its gone from a 70 degree house to a 7 degree day and immediately being used with no fogging or failures. Its been beat up, shiny in some spots, dinged up, dropped, zero failures. Really happy with it. Its probably around 1500 rounds on it, so admittedly not a lot, but I should be increasing that as I get some more time (Just had a kid, so range time dropped).
I’ve been running a 509T on a G45 on duty for over a year in rain, cold, heat. No issues. Just ordered a 507Comp for my Idpa G17. 👍🏻
Everyday carry a 509t x2 in bone dry arizona for over a year now with 3000 rounds under its belt. No issues so far. Usually carried in 100°+ weather but also taken multiple trips to snow and 7000 ft in elevation.
Had approx 3000 rounds with my P2. Started to notice smude/dirt/carbon. Wiped it down, still dirty. Found out it was inside the first layer of glass. Sent it back to aimpoint and had it back within 10 days. I’ll be running it hard this year in trainings so hopefully its good to go. But I am planning on getting an SRO as well. My RMR, although it gets “dirty” faster, a quick wipe between trainings and it’s good to go.
My theory
Most of the smaller dots have a gasket or glue that is between the glass and its anchoring point. The violent recoil patterns of the slide will eventually wear down the glue or gasket enough that under recoil, the positive pressure can bleed momentarily at the backwards stopping point of the slide before the spring carries the slide in the opposite direction because the jolting momentum allows the gasket/glue to be overruled by the positive pressure
I have a P2 on one of my rifles with about 500 rounds. Not a ton of rounds but I live in Michigan and its seen 10 degrees in the winter and 95 degrees 100% humidity in the summer. So far no issues but I need to put more rounds through it.
I had a 509T on a offset on my 16 inch Daniel Defense with an Lpvo and i never had any issues but i never put it thru any hard use other than shooting it at the range and taking it in the ranch truck here in South Texas.
I've had a 509T on my Gen IV Glock 20 since Holosun released it, I carry it daily (yes, I carry a full-sized 10mm Glock every day even in the summer), have over 7K rounds through the pistol with the optic on it and have never had one single issue with the optic. I have the same optic with less rounds on it on my Glock 40MOS that I carry in the backcountry/hunting and it's been flawless as well.
Glad to know you have had good luck with it.
And what yall are saying is the very reason i keep back up irons. Ive been seeing this crazy thing of people doing iron sight deletes and it terrifies me. Tech fails sometimes and id prefer to be prepared rather draw and be shocked.
The most rounds I have on a optic is my PDP with a 509T with over 13k rounds. I do not carry it all day due to im a mechanic. But i have shot in the rain, summer heat, and winter cold in Ohio. So far so good. I have been shooting a M&P 2.0 with a EPS Carry since this past spring. Only just over 1500 rounds, but so far so good as well. Thanks for the info guys, I will be keeping my eye open now. Im not dropping my optics or cranking them off of barricades tho. They are transported either in my bag or on my person, and always in holsters. So some would say I'm easy on them lol.
I have a P2 with 4.5k rounds through it. It made it through winter in North Dakota with temps as low as -25°, and going from that temp to heated trucks and home with minor fogging that cleared up almost immediately and was usable the entire time. I’ve been in and out of vehicles from cold A/C to over 90° several times this summer. I’m not sure why you’re having issues.
Competition shooter here I’ve put thousands of rounds through my aimpoint acro and I’ve got dust or dirt or who knows what inside the housing….. noticed it at about 2-3k rounds and have since noticed it worse at around 7-10k rounds. Here in Oregon it’s dry all the time even when it rains there is no humidity. I assume as a Floridian myself I would have the same issues you had with fog. Tons of clips with me competing one showing the debris I think it’s titled is aimpoint acro competitive. Thank you for this video I’ve been thinking this since purchase and honestly have no problem with open emitters after my Experience.
In the group of guys I usually train with we haven’t seen any Acro problems yet but not as many or as much use yet. 509t problems more than I can remember. Steiner mps, one just completely stopped working, one delaminated and one started coming apart from the inside where there were just loose parts inside. Also had that same thing happen with a 509t.
Northeast Philly, 509T on a G19gen5. Little over a year of ownership and approx. 1500-2000 rounds. EDC and some classes. Indoors and outdoor shooting and classes. All good on my end👌
GO BIRDS
Southwest Ohio
MPS
1800 rds but didn't get it until late January, first shots in mid march due to work load, i had the same issues with the 509t but during winter here and me shooting in icy conditions, so I haven't gotten to subject it to the cold and ice storms we get here.
But my sample size is one.
The guys i shoot with have the P2s and zero issues as well.
One did abandon the enclosed after our issues with the 509t and went back to the RMR.
Not had 509T fail and own several, and My Romeo2 when through a competition in Hill Country Texas during a storm and did not get moisture sealed hood.
I bought my wife the Holosun EPS carry back in April 2023, and it’s been on two different guns, with several hundred rounds through each no issues to speak of so far.
Thanks!
I have an EPS on an Echelon with about 5000 rounds through it, an EPS Carry on a G19 mos with over 10k rounds though it, both optics have held up incredibly well. I live in Wisconsin and do a lot of winter and cold weather training, and have gone from sun zero temps, into a warm house or vehicle, and haven't experienced any moisture issues with either. Both have had their share of abuse and being dropped and exposed to water Ice and snow. Before the EPS I had a C+H precision Duty which is their closed emitter option, failed in under 1000, emitter diode fail, currently being rma'd by C+H
Was looking at the EP2 as a secondary cqb optic for my Scar 17 replacing the dismal battery life of the gen 1 Leuopold Delta point but this video made me choose the tried and true Trijicon RM09 1 moa rds. If the emitter gets blocked I’ll just simply wipe the debris away, easy peazy. Plus it’ll add another shade of fde to the Scar. 😎
Good thing the hard use companies stand by their products. Things break trijicon and aim point are rock solid. Stuff breaks and it suck when they do. Good 👍🏻 stuff
I’ve been running a gen 1 509t on a Glock 22 for two years so far in a law enforcement capacity in Northern Illinois (extreme weather on all ends of the spectrum). I have approximately 4000 rounds with the optic on without issue (I change the battery yearly).
In a recent instructor class some of the other guys told me about their 509ts having the rear glass fly off their pistols.
I have Holosun EPS's on three different handguns, each with 1000 to 1500 rounds with no problem. And I am in the same area as you.
My best thought is the housing reacting to heat from the sunlight...metal expanding and contracting
I have my Holosun 509t since about 1.5 years now. I have traveled with it in an Airplane 3 times now. I have been to it to dusty, hot and also cold environments in Germany and in Finland.
It never failed me. Even when the battery died it still worked fine due to the Solar Panel keeping the Dot alive.
I also like the mounting platform. Really recommend the 509t👍
Sure there can always be some QC issues with any optic. But just saying enclosed optics are bad or that there is not yet a good one on the market is too broad of an statement.
I have a holosun 509 on a Gen 5 G19MOS with a C&H plate. Got between 6-8k rounds on it. Live in the Northern Neck region of VA. It’s my concealed carry EDC so I’m getting in and out of the AC a lot when I’m carrying it. No fogging issues so far, I have it on one of the brightest settings mostly and get 8-12 months out of a battery. Usually have to tighten it up once a year, as in I notice it has gotten loose on the slide.
Great video guys, but I do have a short answer for one of your questions in the video.. YES, nitrogen purging in rifle optics is much more consistent while also being more durable to temperature/humidity changes… the same technology has been applied to high end vehicles for years.
Nitrogen is a much more stable gas, and does not behave the same as oxygen.
On a side note, I’d love to come shoot with you guys. Thank you for doing what you do. Much love ❤
Thanks so much for watching the video and that is some great information and thank you so much for that insight
LEO from Florida, been carrying a Holosun 509T with no issues for 18 months.
So glad you guys made the video, it is important to get community updates as new shiny things come along. I always wait to adopt trends after they are no longer popular and boringly reliable. There are optics tested in blood, the community should honor that and not jump on every shiny thing we can get our dick beaters on. 4x ACOGs, Eotech, older Elite Holosun like the HE530G or like a guy said below 507 ACSS that still are going strong. None of these are trendy now, but I have yet to break one...only wear them out. I retired an old Eotech 552 I have had for 15+ years after the screens yellowed so badly the circle dot was hard to see, and sent the thing to Eotech and they gave me a 50% off coupon for my next purchase from them for using one so long. I still have 20+ year old Army issued ACOG that I use in my rotation, outside of the lamps being dull it works like it did new. My $0.02
The only enclosed emitter I have experience with is the Vortex UH-1.
5k rounds this year in a variety of weather conditions and it has run very well.
Got an EPS and it’s my first optic for a pistol. Hope I didn’t make a mistake buying it, my friend really talked me into it. I originally wanted to buy a friends old rmr for a good price but instead went with Holosun EPS bc in theory the idea is good just didn’t realize it was such a new thing.
2 years of edc with a green 509tx2 on an mr920. About 2000 rounds live fire. 30 minutes of dry fire every week. Mine is good except for some anodization has wore off on the aide of the gun that touches my body. And the buttons on the same side have wore down to where you cant see which is the + and which is the - button. They are smooth as silk
Edit: i live in eastern Tennessee
Live in Delaware. min 30s in winter and low 90s in summer. I have approximately 6000 rounds on a Holosun 509t gen 1, maybe more. I have used it conceal carry and use for training for police department (so I don't have to clean duty gun). I have had no issue with moisture even though I carry it almost everyday for last 2.5 years. My department has approximately 35 officers with the Holosun 509t gen 1 and only issue we have had is batteries dying after only a few months and one of the optics came slightly of center to the mount. We have only had the optics out in the field about 10 months.
I’ve always purposely not purchased anything for at least two yrs after release. Engineers are a precious breed. It can look good on paper to hell and back but nothing “proves” out a product like everyday use.
This. I have bought some new stuff and regretted it after realizing that it wasn’t up to par. A lot of brand trusting that I had before, with good reason, has bitten me in the ass. We’ll see now with trijicon’s new pistol dots, but I’m honestly looking into just keeping my rmr because that has yet to fail
yup, i feel the same way. as long as i don't hear any major issues in the next year, im probably gonna pull the trigger on one of those acog 4x scopes.
I owned two ACRO P2s and both manifested dust inside rear lens after shooting... sold both of them.. and I'm back to Trijicon RMR :)
I have both P1 and P2 both have had some sort of small lint particles inside which I think it got stuck inside during being put together at the factory my P2, a piece of small particle appeared after shooting on the front glass after examination determined it was just a piece of white fabric, but it wasn’t in a spot on the front glass to where it would bother me so I continue to shoot now it’s completely gone more than likely fell down and got wedged in between something so it doesn’t really concern me too much now my P one I have a piece of small strand of fabric stuck to the back glass that’s being pretty stubborn and not wanting to drop free but again, I just deal with it. It doesn’t really bother me too much.