This Is The Last Great Engine Tech
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- čas přidán 16. 08. 2021
- Thanks to Keeps for sponsoring today’s video. Click here keeps.com/b2b to get 50% off your first order of Keeps hair loss treatment.
Go Check out Wesley's Channel! / @wesleykagan
The internal combustion engine is far from being put to rest by its electric rival. Gas engines not only continues to be developed, but they keep getting better. Today we are going to look at what might be the pinnacle of Internal combustion, Koenigsegg's Free Valve Engine.
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It was great talking with you about this, love that Freevalve is getting more attention! Thanks!
Please showcase your car on b2b
Much respect for going out and just doing it
Dude you’re amazing, I’ve been watching your videos for a while.. your jeep is sick!
As soon as I saw the title of the video, I thought of your channel. What you're doing is properly impressive
Bro you're fucking awesome, sharing your CAD files.
Please do this in a miata! Or have the guy who did it come in for a traditional b2b episode with his car. Love this episode, love that you now have engineering and wrenching on the channel
miatas are bad
The comment above yours mentions a CZcamsr who already did this to a Miata, his vids are tight
@@3547cdr5 shut up lester
i'd rather like too see it in the E36 ^^
I believe Wesley Kagan has already done this.
czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
For real, a Jerry/Jobe collaboration with a free valve conversion would be pretty epic.
I remember seeing Freevalve system while it was under development, at least 17~18 years ago.
It was all easy to find back then but by 2010 was a 'closed' project (I think I found it on Porsche engineering site?)
The biggest issue was the high amperage needed to operate solenoids. and probably why it isn't used by more manufacturers - if battery dies, your 'dead in the water', not so good for a 'grocery getter'
One of the model engineering magazines actually had a two cylinder solenoid valve motor .
(The Home Shop Machinist, 2005~2006, 'Build the EVIC-211-Mk1')
EVIC= electronic valve internal combustion
YES! DO THE MIATA! I've wondered about the "feasiblilty" of the freevalve tech for a long time.
It really would be a sick follow through, like the science garage days.... plz donut
@@bugjuicer yeah, it's awesome! No offense at all him but I feel like the guys at donut might be able to spend a little more time, money and resources to it. Less proof of concept and more actual project car or daily driver.
I can't wait to see the pile of unneeded engine parts left over after the build
@@midnightadc they may have the money but i doubt they have the mind that wesley has.
Oh hell yes would love to see how realistic this is and costs wise as considdered it for my own little mx5 numerous times lol
I have to admit, Jeremiah on B2B literally teaches something new and I don’t know if it’s writers or not but he kills it on delivering the content so donut media take note of the talent you have it’s not long before they’re on a sitcom
I preferred Bart
@@AndroidBeacshire its time to move on bro
I think he is great in Outer Banks
you also need to take into account the animation
@@AndroidBeacshire fair enough but god no
Thanks for such an easy-to-get explanation! In fact, camless (no camshaft) engines are widely used in Marine Industry for last 15 years for main slow speed engines , with Electronic controls of both fuel injection and valve timing. There are still come losses and time gaps due to a hydraulic drives (not really a problem due to slow speed of engine) , but the main conception is the same - no more mechanical control and direct drive. Just the size of exhaust valve restricts of using direct solenoid drive. As an example - MAN ME engines and Zultzer/Wartsila RT-Flex
Maybe you can help me with something i didn't saw yet, is high boost an issue for reliability in time? Is there's any mechanical part preventing early opening since it's digital?
@@mostneuter What exactly do you mean? Why would high boost be an issue other than the given reasons why high boost is already an issue? And again, be specific, what do you mean "is there any mechanical part preventing early opening since it's all digita?" Early opening of what? The valves? Intake or exhaust?Why would you want to open them any earlier? You'd either lose compression or potentially get exhaust going out the intake valves if you open them earlier than they already can be opened... And what would stop you, other than the piston in an interference engine, from opening the valve whenever the heck you want? I don't wanna say there's such a thing as a bad question but dang man.. these come pretty close to it. It doesn't even sound like you understand *why* you're asking your questions... You certainly didn't ask a very specific question... So I'm not sure what you intended to do with the answers, if they were even possible to answer, but I'd hope that you know what you were intending to do with them...
Yes, but marine engines run at ridiculously slow speeds. A 60RPM two stroke marine engine will only actuate each solenoid 30 times a minute, a 4 stroke car engine running at 2000RPM will actuate each one 500 times a minute.
Marine engines are big, very expensive, and use several hundreds of TONS of fuel per trip. They are effectively housed in their own building and have spares on site for everything that can break (including connecting rods!). Replacing a valve in that context is not an issue, and the fuel savings are much more significant.
Assuming a mean lifetime of 50 million actuations for the solenoids (which seems reasonable), the marine engine will experience a failure after almost 3.5 years of continuous max-rpm operation. The car, if you drive it 2 hours a day, will have a failure after just over 2 years.
And once one fails, the others are going to start failing shortly after so it's better to just replace them all. Is it reasonable to have to replace your entire valvetrain every 2 years? I don't think it is, given that people go _many years_ without replacing timing belts, and timing chains can even last 20 years.
If there is an "obvious" solution to something that literally _thousands_ of engineers worldwide, backed by _billions_ of dollars of yearly investments work on (fuel efficiency), and it hasn't been used yet, there's usually a good reason.
Especially since all the other VVT and VVL systems are vastly more complicated to design. Why would they go down that rabbit hole if they could just stick an electronic actuator on there and call it a day?
@@demoniack81 This is literally addressed in the video. This technology has only been available in marine diesel engines for 15 years and in commercial cars for 5. It's already being adopted by Renault, BMW, Fiat, Valeo, GM, Ricardo, Lotus, Ford, and Jiangsu Gongda not to mention Koenigsegg through Freevalve. Things will not be universally adopted overnight. Maybe if more people cared about their cam timing it would be adopted faster but they don't so it won't. It will get adopted precisely as fast as the market demands. Relax. And to answer your question, VVTs were first patented for automobiles in 1903 and VVL in 1958. They're not new and predate digital ECMs which is why their development was necessary and why they're more universally adopted.
Love to digitized profile map. When in a graph it makes the throttle more precise. Solving for the actuated free valve in digital format makes this so easy to understand. Individual throttle bodies sound super aggressive, and efficient. Love this! 👨🏽🔬🤫🎫🏎🎞📝🚗
I would like to recommend everyone to watch Wesley Kagan's homebrew Freevalve projects! Really interesting DIY!
I'd love to see him leave a comment here
Okay! Thanks for recommending!
Edit: Saw the video and he's mentioned at the end
It's a great project! Glad it appeared in my recommended when he started it
v=E9KJ_f7REGw
for video
@No One's Innocent you good man? All you comment is negative stuff on donuts posts
I would love to see freevalve on the miata
Same lmao
Pretty sure there's a CZcamsr doing this! I have no clue what their name is but it's pretty cool
@@zachcollins9687 have you seen the video? he's in it
Needs a Big Block Alfadan.
Check out Wesley Kagan's Freevalve projekt. This should be Part 2/2:
czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
This is the perfect channel to learn the tech used in the automotive industry in a simple way, while having fun.
I have learned a lot from you guys. Thank you for the videos.
that was a great explanation. digitizing cars are another way to make them lighter and extending the using of combustion engine even for a longer time rather than eliminating all these amazing engineering by electric cars.
I now understand why "cammed" cars have that sound like their dying at idle and how vtec works better than before. A video on every function of a car from brakes to engine and transmission, etc, broken down like this would be awesome
Watch science garage, one of their best series imo
Yep, big crazy cams make your car sound like it's dying at idle because it really is running so poorly that it's literally on the verge of dying.
Only real way around that without a system like VTEC is to just raise the idle up higher so it can run smoother but that means more heat and more wasted fuel.
Plus high idles kind of sound silly where a lower, lumpier idle or the classic "brap brap brap brap" sounds way cooler.
@@QuakeGamerROTMG Have you ever actually installed cams with more overlap and tuned an engine for them?
then show ends
as @immortail said, science garage!! miss those series and it honestly taught me more in that than any automotive class did ahaha
This seems like some tech that should have been implemented about 30 years ago.
Was thinking the same thing. We have had all the parts for this for ever now.
Tbh it was possible even 20 years ago, and I don't see it as bad as "carb vs injectors" cuz with electronic cams you can leave so much maintain behind (some european chains needing to pull the engine out for 5-10k)
I own a hit and miss enjine that was made in 1908,it has no rocker on the intake valve and uses only vacuum to open but this is not freevalve like we have today,the new systems had to wait for computers powerful enough to control them just as electronic injection did
Caterpillar filed for a patent for electronic/hydraulic valve actuation in 2000 while trying to advance their heui system. Lots of other manufacturers have played with this technology.
Car manufacturers have a very slow development cycle. If car manufacturers designed electic cars that car people would like, they would have made solenoid electric motors. Same as those solenoid v8s but bigger. Efficiency will probably be worse, but those solenoid engines are futuristic and still holds a candle to the ice vehicles.
If making and designing cars were easy as implementing software, we would have had electric cars waaay before tesla, but the complexity of the car industry is far bigger than any software industry. Hell even any electronic manufacturers.
Man, this is quickly becoming one of my favorite Donut segments. I like to think myself as a "car guy" but your explanations are so straight forward, and take seemingly magic concepts and break it down. Awesome work. Also, with the freevalve system, no oiling for cams rockers etc? just cooling cylinder and pistons?
This is the third and best video I've seen today explaining this. Thank you very much! Really appreciate the work you do!
9:52 Jerry saying "50 years ago" and me realizing that's the 70s makes me feel old no matter my age...
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
Man I'm only in my 20's and until reading this comment "50 years ago" just got translated to "the 50's" in my brain
50 years ago was WW2 right?! I can't be this old.
You could call the car the F-A-R-T™ "Flatulence Adjusted Racing Technology" System.
Also, could make a good T-shirt!
Lol
Do it!
🤔replace flatulence adjusted with Freevalve Assisted for the most professional FART
the money pit miata is powered by a fart engine...
@@ksmasterchif twin charged fart miata....
I remember in the forums 20 years ago talking about electronic valves- the consensus back then seemed to be that the actuators weren't "fast" enough. Awesome that freevalve made this tech a reality!
Strange how he didn't mention the traditional valve spring losses that also can go away. Those can be massive.
Are they massive? We dont assume so in engine building. Roller lifters and such reduce the friction of the cam lobe and for what work the love does in compressing the spring the spring does most of it back onto the camlobe right? And since at all times the lobes are staggered around in terms of if they are compressing or relaxing springs they do offset. Its not like I have to compress all of the springs all at once and then release them. consider if I liked up 360 springs all of which were phased 1 degree apart on equal cam lobes and each has a roller rocker arm. How much force would it take to turn that camshaft?
@@pbgd3 On a drag engine valve loses (mostly springs) are at least 600 hp. Every valve has springs with at least 700 pounds of tension to be able to close the valve fast enough. If you have anything to do with high power engines you will regularly see broken roller rockers.
You seem knowledgeable. 8:17 May I ask how is it possible for the two exhaust valves not to open? Where does the exaust go? To the other two lines temporarily? Thanks
@@sandiblues lots of possible strategies you can leave intake and exhaust valves open in which case no actual intake conpression or exhaust just a woosh of air. Or you can skip fuel injection or skip spark. When nothing is restricted to a specific norm.... Also you can literally not have a starter.. Could just close all valves on any cylinder thats on a downward position, close its valves squirt some fuel and bang. Running.
@@pbgd3 thanks. I guess your answer goes along the lines of something like VW does with some engines where specific cylinders can be skipped for instance. Watching the video I understood the engine runs in normal mode just the two valves that goes to the turbo keep closed and the other two are open and shooting flames down to the catalytic converter. So I was thinking you can't ignite the two cylinders going to the turbo without releasing the exaust fumes. But it could be like you say that during coldstart only the two cylinders that have exaust going directly out are active, or maybe they have some way to redirect the other two temporarily somewhere. The last option makes more sense to me because then you can always have the full engine running but on the other hand since it's all digital the available options as you say are many.
OMG...I want to redo my life, go back in time, and get more involved in engineering.
This is so rad.
It's never to late to learn ! An engineering degree takes 3 to 5 years depending on your profile (at least in France)
You can start literally any time! Some people get into what they love in their 70’s, just go for it if you love it!
Math is hell I tell you. If you have some masochistic tendencies then go for it. You won't be doing anything of this though, the future is electric from what it looks like.
Iv got a feeling it's going to go towards wireless charging instead of batteries on deck
I wanted to but I am too stupid.
Honestly, I hope tuning companies will pick up this concept and start selling bolt on head conversions. Like OS Giken with tc24 just modernerer. I'd love me that for my SR20
I can't like this enough.. Strip some weight, make some room and my miata go faster for less than a 2.5 engine swap?! I'm in!
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
I'd love it too for my 4G63T, would be the perfect aftermarket upgrade for gas car enthusiasts to get more efficiency and power out of their engines, when all cars are going electric...
Beautiful explanation, I'm really surprised you didn't explain the way free valves also help get rid of parasitic load from a timing chain or belt turning the cam. There's so many amazing gains from this technology
Minus the turbo aspect I had a similar idea I had drawn up back in the 90s and I called it the electric head my inspiration was trying to find a way to decrease parasitic drag but I was a kid and had no idea what to do with this idea so naturally I was very excited about free valve
I would definitely love to see Zach put an electronic valve system on the money pit Miata
Me too!!
YES THIS PLEASE!
Check out Wesley Kagan's channel where he did just that.
@@CraigTaylor We know, we want it on the Money Pit Miata specifically
I commented before Wesley was referenced :)
I’d really really really really want to see the free-valve on the miata. It would be like the last hoorah of the combustion engine, and hopefully might extend its relevance a couple more years
Boi, more fuel efficient and more powah
I think there's a CZcamsr who made this at home
Check out Wesley Kagan's Freevalve projekt. This should be Part 2/2:
czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
some guy already made one czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
Damn feel bad for you
I've known about Freevalve since it was first introduced. Still hoping that they start selling kits to convert older engines! Also been following Wesley for a while now too!
Before this I already know about engine with free valve but I don't know how the concept until today, thanks for the knowledge..
When I first learned about cam shafts years ago, as an engineer, I couldn't fathom why no one had just done computer controlled actuated valves. Much lighter, and much more tunable. It was kind of mind boggling. When I saw someone did it my response was "I was saying that 10 years ago".
I was explaining my hypothetical design of this to my dad when i was like 12 years old.. 10 years later its real shit.
Yeah I dunno about you guys, but I've replaced enough solenoids to know that they won't be on the same level of longevity as a traditional cam. It's fine for a purpose built vehicle, but I think the maintenance would start to get tiresome in a daily driver.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper it’s not that hard to replace a solenoid. If a camshaft breaks you have bigger annoyances, especially if it’s an LS.
@@kalasmournrex1470 It's not that hard to replace a solenoid unless you're in any of a million situations where you need a reliable vehicle and a replacement solenoid is nowhere to be found. You going to carry a few spares around with you just in case your car dies on the way to work? How about we power aircraft with them, you gonna trust them on a 12hr flight to Hawaii over the Pacific? Camshafts don't break like solenoids go bad. You're probably looking at a 2,000:1 ratio between replacement time intervals between a modern cam and a modern solenoid. The fact is, a present day solenoid is a cheap wear item that has never really been relied upon like a camshaft has, and that's the limiting factor in the freevalve concept and all of the other solenoid actuated valvetrains of the past (that's right, you're not the first, freevalve wasn't the first, the dozens of people commenting on this video weren't the first either...they've been prototyped on functional engines for at least four decades now).
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper I’ve never had a solenoid actually break. I’ve seen cams fail. I’ve certainly seen timing belts/chains break. Wear items freevalve doesn’t need
When I heard free valve for cheaper I immediately remembered the Miata that had custom free valve tech made and the creator gave all the info to it out for free. A true G.
Am I the only one who loves how Jerry lays everything out and explains it as complexly as it is but still makes B2B STUPID FUN TO WATCH???
International was playing with this 20 years ago. The we’re using hydraulic pressure. The same set up that actuated the HEUI injectors in Powerstrokes to open valves, no camshaft required.
I think freevalve kits would be awesome... Just imagine increseing power and full efficiency of stock motors with something like this. I mean, wouldn't it be possible???
You need completely new heads. Pretty expensive in the aftermarket.
@@R4M_Tommy for now. Turbos aftermarket used to break bank. Once DIYers got their knucks greesed enough for OEMs to notice thier potential, turbos, though not super cheap for a good setup, become very uptainable
@@R4M_Tommy for cars in $100k+ range it is cheap
what is problem is:
-amount of work which can only be done properly by a engineer in automotive degree specializing in engines themselves because it is not as simple as plug&play
-you need to design the head,a ton of CAD work and a ton of crunching to see how can you fit such thing
-you need to know how to tune your freevalve setup which means you need to have knowledge in compute to know how it works and what can you do to increase its performance(overclocking the polling rate of electronic lifters would be a start)
-than you need to deal with input lag either via tune or by designing high speed low latency wiring which probably will go over CANBUS to make sure what you punch into your freevalve map is being applied on time because mechanical parts had no input lag,while electronics do have it because of length and resistance of wiring
for sure. especially the efficiency. I can only imagine how good it will work with diesel engines
I think in a few years, there could absolutely be a market for Freevalve kits/heads. People who still love their gas cars, but want a more power, more space, and more efficiency. Especially if they allow them to be used in big racing series. Imagine the eyeballs you’d get on your product if the leading NASCAR or F1 team were using a Freevalve setup. The problem I see right away is: what engines do you produce them for? Whoever took on a job like this would be smart to consider which enthusiast vehicles are most popular, which engines are the most popular for swaps, etc.
8 years ago during my college, when I explained the same thing to my professor about digital valve timing, he just laughed.
I had a similar experience. Even F1 hasn't tried this (iirc).
@Jonathan Begnami Hmmm, I wonder how the FIA would respond to this. I'm not sure if the smaller teams would be able to fund the development of this tech and how the FIA would respond to it. I'd like to see it, nonetheless.
@@jonathanthompson3359 I don't think the budget to develop this would be that high.. Everyone should be able to afford it..
@@revaddict If the FIA hasn't banned it, then I'm wondering why it hasn't been developed then. I'm just wondering.
@@jonathanthompson3359 the “smaller teams” all use engines from the big Manufacturers. They don’t do their own engines currently.
I thought of this exact system in the 90s when i was still in high school, nice to see people with the knowledge to make it a reality are working on it, i sure could never wrap my head around programming.
Incredible video and great information / explanation
I would 100% watch a free valve project. I already followed Wesley's, but it's always cool to see different approaches and what can be done now that more information is out there.
That graphic animation at 6:00 is where it’s at! Simple and understandable. Love that combo. Cheers to the artists.
its also wrong. Actuator response isnt instantaneous. Response to input sort of is, but those edges on graph should be curved slightly. In other words it contrasts two different things - signaling for digital valves and open/close cycle for mechanical.
@@bartoszbaranowski604 it is still much faster and can stay at 100% instead of reaching 100% for a mere instant. The graph is dumbed down to get the rough idea. Very simple and very understandable
@@TaireTV Never said otherwise. Though, graph is not "dumbed down" it's just wrong. It compares digital signal to position of vales in mechanical set up.
For mechanical set up it is roughly the same( minus inertia of parts ). But for digital setup it just isnt - input signal is not even close to valve position/graph.
The thing that bugged me was on the cam graph it was a sine wave vs having flat spots where the valve was closed.
@@bartoszbaranowski604 the graph provides pretty good understanding for people who do not know how analog vs digital works. Providing understanding is good, but in reality, analog vs digital signals work absolutely differently, this is where they made a mistake. I think, what they wanted to show was that there is more precise and predictable valve control, using digital signal, which does not depend on revs mechanically.
Cool I know what I'm doing this summer gonna attempt building this free valve style valve system for my 02 crown Victoria
Would love to see more regarding free valve tech, or a shop conversion for your Miata like you said :D
I ABSOLUTELY want to see an engine build with this technology. Any chance we can modify an LS block and make this happen? :D
There is a guy who modded some Toyota I4 engine on his own so it should be possible.
I’d love to see this on a Ferrari
Free valve twin turbo LS 🥰
Probably with lot of work. Would probably be easier to start with an overhead valve engine.
@@Nolan2231 Like... an LS?
I'd love to see a homebrewed Miata with electric valve actuation . The Donut Miata EVA!
That would be absolutely amazing
Yes
czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
Check out Wesley Kagan's channel where he did just that.
Can you guys make a vid on the automotive headlights/tail lights?where they started to where they are now and maybe the future.there is so much engineering that goes unnoticed in the lights.mow pawa baby!
Genius! Kind of like individual coil packs but for the valves.
Thank you guys so much for shining a spotlight on Wesley Kagan. He's been doing a lot of homebrew work towards electronicallyy actuated valves and it's good to see him getting recognition for it!
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
Don't worry his comment got hearted and is already getting the wanted attention.
Though he was more happy about the fact that Freevalve is getting more recognition instead.
Confucius say, man who runs behind car will get exhausted, but man who runs in front of car will get tired.
I hate this but take my like anyways!
@@asherdales Thanks!
Me: ..... *heh heh I get it....*
You deserve the like
@@sash3450 Thanks!
I read an article about this exact proposed valve actuator technology about twenty years ago. It was supposed to operate on a proposed vehicle electric system of 48vdc or more which in itself promised other benefits. Seems like the idea was shelved due to tech issues at the time and market forces. Cool to see that the concept actually being implemented!
Fiat MultiAir does pretty much the same thing. There is only one camshaft, and the cams pressurize some oil chambers as the lobes go over where the intake side should be. The pressurized oil can then be used to push the intake valves open, unless a second valve is used to release the pressure. The result is individually controlled valves, each controlled directly by the ECU. At low loads (such as idle) the intake valves can even open and close twice in a single intake stroke.
This could actually be ground breaking! If the FreeValve system improves efficiency enough (which it can) this can make gas cars non banned because it could potentially get double the fuel economy
put it on a Geo Metro there pushing 100mpgs on modded engines
Won’t happen
- Less moving parts means more reliable engines, less money from service and parts
- less moving parts also means “premium” manufacturers won’t be able to charge the ridiculous prices for their products
-more efficient cars means less money spent at the gas station
If they don’t release it then it’s because it hurts their bottom line. Same way pharmaceutical companies aren’t really interested in making cures
@@David-ej1ps if enough manufacturers do though, it will force stubborn companies to eventually follow. Porsche is pushing synthetic fuels to save ICE cars so introducing this (especially for performance reasons) makes sense.
Electric cars weren't serious until tesla, all it takes is for one manufacture like Toyota to implement this at some capacity for it to spread.
Unfirtunitly it'll never happen in regular cars. Big oil would lose too much. Also with it making more reliable engines there'd be a huge loss to manufactures too.
@@jonathanbewley6505 Aren't they losing more if ICE cars aren't allowed to be produced anymore? Reliability wouldn't be improved across the board, electronics fail all the time.
I think Freevalve is amazing but I have some questions:
1. How's the reliability?
2. Why is it not widely used by other OEMs?
Glad to finally see some voice of reason in this comment section. That number 1 question is very important. New chips based on silicates + worldwide silicon shortage = huge backlog or unreliable chips made through easy and quick manufacturing. How long will these chips last? How about the other components on their circuit boards? How will this impact auto mechanics? Will this advancement complicate repair jobs for small garages? Does a new age car mechanic need a full fledged degree in engineering in order to service these future cars? Sure this idea sounds cool and it's awesome that there are still technological developments for IC cars, but we cannot ignore the impact this will have on the majority of this world's inhabitants. What about the manufacturing process of these parts? Would it still be able to be developed sustainably once a total global implementation has been reached? Maybe not even total, how about large scale manufacturing of these specific parts? Will the OEMS even account for universally usable protocols or will all these future parts be proprietary?
Grooling over new and shiny things is cool but we can no longer afford to be irresponsible about products or things that could potentially have a large impact on a lot of people.
@@ali709aliali Electrical controls are pretty reliable especially with solid state technology, we've been using them in tons of industrial tech for years.
Chips are being cheaply made but not for auto manufactures, auto manufactures have buying power to get the good grades, believe it or not even Chevy has quality standards. The silicon shortage wont last forever.
Repairs should be easier, replacing an actuator on top of an engine would be easier then replacing a cam or timing chain.
i can "grool" all i want. Your ignorance to modern tech and global supply chains shouldn't hold us back from cool things old man.
@@Subwolfer7564 Chevy has high standards .... Ford has none!!
@@D3M0ify Oh those boys at chevy are high alright.
Little known fact: Chrysler invented electronic fuel injection ca. 1956. I came across this in the 1956 Journal of the SAE in my college library stacks (when I should have been doing something educational.) They used off the shelf solenoid valves and vacuum tubes for the control! I believe the test car was a 300 series hemi. I don't know if they sold the patent to Bendix and they to Bosch. Or, what. Bosch had the first EFI on the Volkswagen camper, I think.
I feel like B2B is like a newer version of science garage. I love it... .. Jeremiah you're awesome and I love that you're deep down a biker boy! Love you guys!!!
I would love to see Mazda combine this with their Skyactiv-X engine
With that tech it would easily get over 40 mpgs or more
@@AJS_Drums ***looks at any diesel passenger car in right now**
I seriously love the way he explains stuff, I love love love cars but I’m not a technical engine expert. He explains it so simplistically yet educationally that I enjoy learning about it
that's exaclty what i love about these videos, detailed enough for poelple with pre knowledge to get some new info, but simple enough for people who don't know all too much about the technicalities of a car, to understand what's going on
They're almost always spot on but sometimes get stuff wrong so still try to get other opinions for everything for sure lol
He makes it entertaining too.
Jack Hughes they’re based off evidence & facts wym bru
Interest is had in the freevalve tech for years it would be interesting to see you guys DIY a version of your own! *jokinly serious* ill match you with a youtube series dedicated to it aswell as in the past have dabbled with similar in the past! Should be fun!
Nice explanation, thanks. Perhaps you could check out the BMW valvetronic system, not quite freevalve, but it was a big step in that direction 20 odd years ago.
I am blown away by how informative this video is. I've read about the technology, even watched a few videos from "engineering" channels, but only now grasped the overall concept. Thank you, Donut Media and whoever directed this video is particular.
yep exactly, i saw an article ab it but was really confused how it works but this explained it so well
I concur.
A very good job of explaining the tech.
It's cool seeing Jeremiah getting more and more comfortable behind the camera. He's also getting better at explaining stuff. These videos are getting a lot more interesting.
I was gonna say the exact same, dude started out a little rough on B2B but it’s now becoming my fav Donut videos!
Love his silly look but damn genius engineer's tongue
Love ti see you guys do this as a project
You guys are freakin awesome, keep it up. I want to keep the petrol spirit and the shifter where they are right now
I remember years ago that replacing the cam sounded like a reasonable idea that no one could deliver, so bravo Koenigsegg
They have been running these in motogp for almost 20 years now
Around 60,000 USD for a set of 32 to run a 4-valve 8-cyl engine in a Koenigsegg (not including the controlbox and software licensing) :)
OTOH, that's "only" 30,000 USD if you're running a four-pot. Peanuts.
@@AJBtheSuede You can quite easily build these using hydraulic or pneumatic actuators if you have some experience in mechatronics. Provided you have the workshop equipment and fab skills. It's not like it's so easy that everyone can do it but it's still no as hard as making a carbon monocoque chassis in your garage.
Fiat multiair did it a decade ago lol
@@freedom4all219 What? 🤨
Would love to see Zach try to get this working on the Miata. That sounds like an awesome video.
czcams.com/video/E9KJ_f7REGw/video.html
Its been done
Interesting , Thank You a fine example of what we all NEED
Wesley Kagan has set me on the path to apply this to one of my RB25det heads after watching his Miata build. Now watching this i'm even more motivated to do it, once I do it to the RB ill move to jz, sr ect whatever i can get my hands on, if they can do it so can I
Renault was working on electromagnetic valve actuation for their F1 engines back in the early 2000's. The main goal for them was eliminate the camshaft as it was responsible for a lot of vibration in the engine and vibration was a killer of hydraulic systems or which F1 cars had many. Surprised vibration reduction didn't come up here as a benefit as well.
Actually in mid 80's n Renault turbocharged RVS-9 1.5 litre Formula 1 engines
Freevalve engine can actually be a very efficient backup generator for electrical vehicles in order to compensate for the range issue. And also it will make hybrid vehicles much more efficient.
Or you just make batteries better . I dont see rang problems anyway . Fuel engines are done . No trick can make a fuel engine any better to compeat with Electric . Hybrits are the stupidest thing ever made .
@@xythiera7255 cope
@@xythiera7255 Making batteries better isn't this magical thing you can just do. There is also weight, size, form factor problems. There will be non-electric cars for another 15 years at least in the 1st world, no reason to not do this (that I can think of)
@@xythiera7255 The price of replacing the battery pack on a tesla right now is near $20k. That can't compete with fuel cars. It also looks like we'll run out of lithium before we run out of fossil fuels.
@@xythiera7255 Except much of the electricity in your battery comes from burning COAL... Also don't discount the benefits of having your power plant be something you own, instead of some centralized, government-regulated massive energy corporation. And then there's range, pound for pound gasoline has WAY more potential energy than a li-ion battery of the same weight and that won't change any time soon... Maybe there's more than one solution here. Consider hydrogen: huge potential energy, super clean, and it could be used in an ICE. Produce it with renewable methods and you have yourself a futuristic energy solution with a lot of benefits over battery storage. So don't be so quick to dismiss hybrids.
also you don't need the springs, and can just use a powerful magnet to retract the valve. this might allow you to rev higher as well before the piston starts catching valves
One capability that these could open up is compression release engine braking. Pop that exhaust valve open after the compression stroke to prevent the compression energy from returning to the crank. It would be awesome on an AWD vehicle and even more awesome if the center diff could vector torque to the front. I wonder if it could allow for reduced brake rotors size and mass.
" How do you make a Cam that has power at the top end and is fuel efficient at the low end?"
... VTEC BABY!!
Honda also issued a patent for a free valve variant.
Just to make 120hp with vtech
Vtec is very limited. Only 2 positions? Multiair is way superior.
@@aidenmaves5537 They make fast hondas too, it's mostly for efficiency in their smaller displacement vehicles.
@@thomasvincent9220 i know just jokes. A type r could easily smoke a hellcat around a track
really like this episode, this has potential in a quarter-mile race.
Nah, they are always at full throttle, there gains would be in the 1% range. For ecconomy cars though, it's a game changer.
@@SalveMonesvol You'd still get somewhere around 30% more power. It's not a tech to make the engine run better at idle and low speed, it's a tech that makes the engine run better at ALL speeds. Even the best cam profile and biggest lifters can't match the lift and duration of a freevalve, and that's where you get the additional power from. Your traditional cam and tappet valves are the biggest limitation of any modern engine, even the DOHC/VVT/DVVC/VVD million valve engines today suffer from the slow and progressive opening and closing necessary from any type of cam profile, but a freevalve opens almost instantly. Sleeve valves and rotary valves have more power potential than freevalve actuated tappet valves on top of that, but to date nobody has been able to demonstrate their practicality or longevity.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper Youy have to take into account that valves have inertia, specially when they are huge, like on race engines with over 1 liter per cylinder. Valves work very well for the specific rpm they are designed for, and the natural progressive nature of cams can be tuned to benefit cylinder filling. Again, the problem is that this can be perfectly tuned for specific rpm at a specific throttle position, when you try to optimize throughout the whole range, you run into trouble. For instance, I own one of the finest engines with traditional cams, the 3.0 busso V6, which is sacrifices both peak power above 6k and fuel ecconomy below 3k in order to have smooth power delivery all the way from 2.000. Still, freevalve would only give it around 10% more torque at 5.000 rpm, since it's already masterfully tuned to breath very well from 4.500 to 5.500. The big difference would be on the extremes. I wouldn't be surprised if you could increase torque at 1.500 rpm by 40%, and peak power above 6.500 rpm by more than 30%.
TLDR: even freevalve has to deal with valves inertia and resonance, and cams can be well tuned for specific rpm, the massive improvements from freevalve come in the weak points of the torque curve, thus allowing you to make the most out of the engine at every point.
@@SalveMonesvol This is all fine and well, and the freevalve doesn't open instantaneously, but it does open on an order of magnitude faster than what a camshaft is capable of, and can hold far longer dwell times than the most radical high end cam as a result. Don't underestimate the speed in which the solenoids can open and close, only a few degrees of rotation is all it takes to fully open or close a solenoid valve, whereas a cam profile that would theoretically open a valve that fast will simply have a square lobe to impact the lifter and destroy itself in glorious fashion. The peak output of any engine can benefit from such a short travel duration, no matter the inertia of the valves and associated springs (use bigger solenoids and bigger springs) or the size of the cylinder. Most of a cam operated valve's time being open is only partially open, just transit time to being open or closed, and that's time a solenoid operated valve can be fully open and stay open. Just as the video made the watered down analogy of a sine wave, a cam operated valve hits peak for only the most brief of periods with the majority of the profile ramping up or down to that point, whereas a solenoid actuated valve will hit that peak as soon as the cylinder is clear, more like a rounded square wave than a square wave. When you don't need the valve open for the entire duration at mid or low rpm, you simply dial it down. The freevalve is essentially an impossibly high lift high RPM cam, with the secondary benefit that it can be dialed down if desired to operate at peak efficiency at any RPM. Even if it was never dialed down, it would far surpass any cam on or off the market for peak power.
@@Skinflaps_Meatslapper You just repeated the theory from the video, but insist on ignoring that everything has inertia.
there is also a company who made a similar thing but with a pneumatic system i think it was installed on a enduro motorcycle not sure if it was camless i think they made it to keep the valves closed tight cause at the rpm the engine was runing the valves would've "dance" and move around like actually rotating inside the valve guide, i remember now it was a vacuum system of sort maybe not as fancy like a freevalve system but it was a solution to a problem
I need this in my life. I wish I had the tools to do this. I would definetly try this in my garage. I want this. There should be a conversion made to be able to put in any car.
This was the best explanation of freevalve I’ve seen.
Also, yes, we need the fart car. Have you asked Colin Furze for help on it?
This is the crossover that CZcams needs...
Hell yeah! This would be such an awesome project on the Miata. This needs to be pushed, more power, less emissions, more efficency. Why in the world isn't this a standard already?
cause it sucks
@@LanaaAmor whatever you say Karen
Because it was cheaper to just pump out millions of old engines than to do rnd.
@@burneracc2567 😞 sad boy hours
Already been done lol
I have always thought about this, glad I found this video.
Hell yes great episodes, you even featured Wesley Kagan!
GET JEREMIAH A MIATA!!!
Definitely for science and not to see him struggle to step out of a small car
JEREMIAHTA GO!!!
*less the moving parts less the energy loss less the friction more power to play* ❤
Don't forget more reliability
@@forgedinferno5033 nah ! I didn't forget. I intentionally left it for you to point out 😛
This also kinda explains very high power efficiency in EVs as well.
But no waste gate means no chhuuu
@@MagnumLoadedTractor I mean... the beauty in the digital asepect means you're completely free to programme it so that the turbo still needs a wastegate - you'll just lose some of the fuel economy lmao!
There is VTEC type systems to give variable timing rather than only 2 or 3 stages, though electronically controlled valves would still offer greater flexibility, and efficiency due to not needing to run a camshaft.
I am going to write this for tomorrow's University exam. Thanks man The best explanation I could find on the internet. Wonderful.
Fiat has Multiair that does a similar thing, hydraulically operated intake valves increase the torque and power while decreasing emissions.
I belive that engine is also in the modern Dodge dart compacts and newer jeep renegades
Brothers of the same mother.
(sister companies basically)
Yup, though it's only on the intake side on their cars, freevalve is both intake and exhaust
Love my Fiat, and the multiair does wonders. Little thing out performs my V8 F150 and V8 Durango everytime, and even off the road it rips through trails and never gets stuck, compared to the other two.
czcams.com/video/JIxmRSujdGM/video.html
Scotty Kilmer fans when they see tech on an engine or even on a car: “OMG extreme money pit Toyota and Lexus good car tech bad hahaha”
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
His followers all seem to be boomers lol
@@camogap7392 I'm 23 I watch his videos mainly for the actual advice but I can definitely tell his bias when he talks about certain topics lol
Scotty who?
@@jonbus766 czcams.com/video/dQw4w9WgXcQ/video.html
Congrats🎉🎊 CC 850 have a new Tech to u guys review
Thought of air injection in 2010 when I was doing my apprenticeship with Jaguar. But that was more pushing compressed air into the cylinders with an injector and less an electronic valve. 😅
*Yes, please do a freevalve build!*
Get Wesley on the build, would love to see his expertise with donuts Budget.
Also since theres no cams... theres less sensors!
I would LOVE to see this happen on the Miata! Let Jeremiah's engineering nerd flag fly!!!!
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
Enginerding*?
I legit had this idea about 15-20 years ago. I asked an electrical engineer buddy of mine to help brainstorm some concepts, then I just left it sitting on my 'cool idea, too lazy to do anything with it' shelf in my brain.
Christian Von Koenigsegg is the right man for the task of getting this tech out into the World. Great vid, as always, Jerry.
I was really hoping you'd mention Wesley during this video, been watching his videos since he first came out with the BoxsterCart and he's easily one of the most informative channels out there
I would love to see this tech retrofitted on a 2UR-GSE engine from Lexus. Adding more horsepower and fuel efficiency to that already beautiful engine would be *chef’s kiss*
I agree that’s an amazing engine, but I don’t think it would sound the same without a throttle body and intake plenum. Honestly without all the clunky valvetrain you could apply this tech to the 3UR, rev it higher and enjoy the larger 5.7L displacement.
Hmm, now I’m thinking about the Corvette LS7 V8 in the Z06, the 8.4L V10 in the Viper and the 6.5L V12 in the Lamborghini Aventador.
@@whodahellru8124 I would have to say an LS would be perfect for this. Take and already proven platform (better yet one that uses a very old pushrod design) and see how many gains you could get by converting it to freevalve. They could make 4 valve custom heads for it or possibly even fit the entire solenoid design into the lifter area and use off the shelf heads, making it look indistinguishable from a standard ls.
The 3UR engine is designed for peak torque, not horsepower, since it's meant to move heavier vehicles. The reason I like the 2UR-GSE so much is because it's the closest we'll ever get to an LFA engine in a mass produced car. Sure you could do it to a boring LS engine which are a dime a dozen and has a million aftermarket support mods, but that's not really special. You may be right about the sound, but I would contend it would be even better, allowing it to rev out even quicker like the LFA and at a higher RPM for that V8 scream.
Another engine that would be more interesting to see this technology in is the Hayabusa V8 that the Ariel Atom V8 concept hosted. If you could still buy this engine and retrofit freevalve tech, I'd pour buckets of money to throw it into something like the GR86. The Ferrari engine swapped GT86 was a spectacular idea before it was wrecked, I suspect the Hayabusa engine would be a remarkable substitute, being a light engine for a light vehicle.
@@gaffgarion92 any engine can be designed for peak torque or horsepower, it comes down to airflow and rotational mass. Just because an engine is of large displacement doesn’t mean it can’t make horsepower.
czcams.com/video/9MdsZFFMHow/video.html
We want Miata go fast no timing chain😤💪🏼
czcams.com/video/JIxmRSujdGM/video.html
Yes make the diy free valve stuff more in the view of companies to make kits! It just needs some improvements and maybe some custom solenoids and some more money into it and I think it would be sick and a very easy mod for high horsepower gains
Probably the best, layperson's description of how an internal combustion piston engine work Kudos to you Mr Jeremiah and all @donut media.
It would be dope to see the money pit Miata become the most efficient Miata on earth. Really wish more people were pursuing this tech.
Technically an all electric Miata has already been built though.
Then spec it out like Eddie's Miata and Dakar it.
czcams.com/video/JIxmRSujdGM/video.html
20 years after reading about this tech, and still waiting on it.
Seems this also could be accomplished hydraulically with pressurized engine oil and a governor; IIRC Preston Tucker was working on it. A simple flyweight governor also will save your engine and the turbo. Farm tractors and heavy trucks have used governors for decades.
The wheel really does get reinvented every so often I guess.
Freevalve also can get rid of starter motors, allowing for instant starting.
Basically, if you know which cylinder is near, but past, top dead center, you can fluff in a bit of air/fuel, a spark, and boom! running engine.
Petrol is far from dead, the energy density compared to batteries is still way too high.
I would LOVE to see the Donut Miata get some Free (love) Valve tech!
Most of the energy ends up as heat though, not as buff ponies.
@@panzerveps the electric cars makes an assload of heat
@@Justinlifts365 60% of energy in combustion engine goes to heat. It's more like 5% in electric motors.
@@Justinlifts365 yeah, about 10% ends up as heat, vs 60% on a modern super efficient diesel.
@@panzerveps EV power trains also generate a lot of heat--in the batteries and motors. Not sure what the thermal efficiency is, but cooling is still a thing.
would love to see this on the money pit miata
czcams.com/video/0MycM4IRwXU/video.html
Very good video about freevalve companys technology jeremiah thanks.
just realized this came out on my birthday, how could i miss this? especially my favorate car manufacturer koenigsegg???