Max Bass Power - Bass Amp Placement Matters!
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- Optimizing Your Bass Amplifier and Subwoofer Placement:
Key Tips for Enhanced Tone, Low-End Response, and Coverage
Unleash the full potential of your bass setup by strategically placing your amplifier and/or subwoofers on stage.
In this guide, we explore the critical factors, including room acoustics, to help you achieve maximum power and coverage. Learn valuable tips to elevate your tone and enhance low-end response, ensuring your bass presence resonates effectively throughout the venue. From stage placement nuances to room acoustics considerations, discover the art of maximizing your impact!
Well done, this is a great explanation of why you shouldn't just try to drown out the drummer. Back when I started playing in the punk era, PA systems were huge and the equipment available (and affordable) were usually pre sound reinforcement. Bass cabs built to throw sound 30 feet in front of the stage and guitar stacks with 2 4x12"s etc. After many years I finally realised aiming all the amps ACROSS the stage and tuning down until you could hear what the guy on the opposite side was doing. Bam! Everybody was happy, The group would play better as they could all clearly hear each other, the sound guy was happy as he could do his job unconstrained, and the audience got to hear everything as clearly as the sound guy intended. Winning - Thank you Sir, Subscribed.
That approach of aiming the maps across the stage sound very interesting! Could you explain it a little more in detail, please?
It's the old constructive interference by putting your bass amp in the corner trick.
Brilliant!
As a bass player, I always gigged with non-ported, sealed cabs...2x10 or 2x12" and a 350-700 watt, Class D amp with a tube pre in it, for a tight sound. A sound guy once told me a similar thing, to place my cab near the wall.
For small bars and clubs 50-100 people, that was plenty and the house would take care of the rest. My amp and cab, nine times out of ten were simply used as my personal monitor and not necessarily for the audience. The audience would hear the bass coming from the in house PA.
Thanks for the explanation! Always tip your sound guy! $5-$10 goes a long way especially if you gig at the same venue regularly.
I own a live blues venue in Japan. My sound tech and I are very proactive with bands at sound check. We have a small place, 30 people max, but our sound is very, very nice. QSC speakers (K12.2 PAs and a KS118), a Fender Rumble 150, and an Aguilar Tone Hammer DI box. Your video is my bias confirmation that we're doing it right. Our pro bassists who come through absolutely love the sound both on and off stage. We put bass through the PAs along with only the kick, keyboards and vocals. The guitarists work well with us in a similar way that you talk about because only they aren't miced. We have a 69' Super Reverb and a Hotrod Deluxe. Teamwork gets us a beautiful sound. The hardest part is getting drummers to control cymbals, which they usually figure out quickly. We are successful because we do exactly what you're teaching AND we are proactive with working with bands to help them understand to how to sound their best in our venue. One could say that our "brand" is not only having superior sound, but also that musicians take away knowledge to help themselves sound better at other venues. I'm personally a drummer who doesn't like it loud. Haha! Go figure. Ultimately, the ladies love our venue because of the listenable sound. If that's not a testimony for your video message, then I don't know what is. Excellent video and thank you so much for it. You're a great teacher, sir.
Thank you for the kind comments, and for sharing your experience.
@@Barry-Watson I do have one question about coupling subs. This year I want to move my venue to a bigger place that can hold up to 60 people or more. Would a second KS118 coupled on one side of the stage be beneficial? I'm not looking for more volume. I'm looking for a fuller, more musically pleasing sound. And to perhaps get a nice kick feel in the chest when it's required. Japanese venues can be tight with space sometimes so I'm also wondering if two subs coupled side by side is better than vertically stacked. Having subs center stage is probably not going to be an option. And I'm guessing that any cardioid mode position isn't going to be necessary or beneficial in my case.
I want to consider subwoofer setup while I'm searching and planning for a new venue. I'm going to build the whole stage and venue from scratch. I've done it once already.
My concern is about music quality for live bands, not volume. Could you share your opinion or experience in this regard? Thank you, sir.
The low frequencies from the subwoofer are pretty omni-directional, so I don't think stacking side/side or on top really makes a lot of difference as long as the boxes are in close proximity.
Ideally I'd like to keep both subs similarly against a boundary if possible - the floor or a wall. I would think if the distance between the drivers in the sub boxes are within a fraction of a wavelength at the operating frequencies they should be nicely additive and work together well. So if you have 2 boxes tightly grouped together I think you'd be fine. Biggest issue might be dealing with vibration and cabinets rattling against each other. Straps?
I would expect a single 18 powered sub to handle a 60-person Jazz club show pretty easily, but maybe you feel the need for more. More is always more. :)
Sounds like you're got a nice club, I'd love to check it out and visit Japan if I could. Best wishes!
@@Barry-Watson Thank you for your reply, sir. So if I had to stack them then the stack would be flush with the wall and pointing straight forward towards the far end of the club. Gotcha.
It's a blues venue, so we get full bands. But of course we also do funk, rock, RnB, and play with backing tracks sometimes. There's a variety, but mainly blues. Having more than enough and knowing how to use it properly is better than not having enough. 13 years in the Marines taught me that. Haha! 94-07
JJ's Blues House in Gifu City, Gifu Prefecture, Japan. You, sir, get to drink for free. Thanks again. I'll be following your videos from now on
I'm a Bass Player, and, yea, I get it all the time from the rest of the band, at practice, and gigs, about how loud I am.
Granted, I like it loud...I want to feel the bass, but I don't want to drown anyone out or annoy anyone.
But, it's wild how, my guitar player will say I am loud, and I'm looking at him, saying I can't hear myself and need to turn up (then watch the color drain from his face :-)
This was an informative video, which, I thought I was on the right track in trying to fix this, and you helped show me that I was.
Thanks!
Well explained and very informative. I'm a sound guy and bassist myself and decided to only bring a SansAmp DI to gigs, because its hard to determine how loud my amp should be and our drummer hates me for it. The only downside is that I don't "feel" the bass through my monitor and I have no idea if the lower frequencies are audible in the venue. Just gotta trust the sound guy I guess.
I can’t do DI bass without IEMs, but I totally understand where you’re coming from. It’s so hard to determine the right bass volume. I have a cheap wireless that I use so I can stand in the middle of the room during soundcheck when the venue allows
Turns out the lower frequencies aren't really heard so much, as felt. So, don't worry about them being audible. Focus on the wide-swath of all the mids. Put together Barry's info here, with the example from Talkbass linked at the end of this comment, and maybe you'll be surprised just like I was.
Another terrific video about bass tone settings, from Talkbass, and it turns out, the bulk of the bass guitar sound we hear is the broad range of mids.
The very low range... 60hz to 100hz-ish... we barely hear, we mostly just 'feel' the air or waves moving.
It seems counter intuitive, but holy crap.
That video, plus this fantastic one from Barry, together are a tremendous eye opener.
The example using an open A string is quite a surprise. czcams.com/video/YSEjjK-JSDs/video.html
Myself and a lot of bass players bring a single speaker or combo for this purpose, it's just not a component of the tone that goes to the sound system, more of a personal monitor. You can also boost the bass a bit and cut mids and treble and keep the volume low to get the effect of feeling the sound.
Excellent information. We have to put our subs on our three foot elevated stage due to the venue design. As the bass player, I am set up about 4 feet from the sub on my side of the stage. Should I move my rig right next to the sub, or move it a couple of feet farther away.
My preference would be for the subs to fill the room with low frequency sound. Your bass rig on stage is essentially your personal monitor, and should be loud enough that you can clearly hear but I wouldn't want it so loud to be fighting with the subwoofers and blasting a lot of sound into the audience.
If you're having cancelation issues on-stage and you can't hear yourself clearly I would try moving the bass amp about four feet in one direction or another and see if that makes a difference. If you can hear yourself OK I'd consider that all good.
I used this information a couple weekends ago. The bass player was asking to be put into the monitors because he couldn't hear himself out of his rig. We moved his bass cab over about 4 or 5 ft into the corner and after that set he was amazed at the difference. Thanks for the great info Barry.
Fantastic! I'm glad that was helpful. I've found it's always best if you can work with the laws of physics.
@@Barry-Watson can't argue with that!
Thanks, Barry. Very helpful, with the mix of practicality, common sense, and some theory. We've just started using in-ears. I'm playing guitar through a Fender Tone Master Blonde Deluxe Reverb, going direct to FOH through its xlr out, with the speaker silenced. Same for our bass player, via a Fender Rumble. But our other guitarist just can't quit his awesome '66 Deluxe Reverb, so we continue to mic that. And - one of the best things about your video: it confirms our choice to go with a single subwoofer, which we typically place on the floor, in as central a position as possible, where the audience won't be kicking it. Thanks again for a great video
Thanks!
As a performing musician I use a “smaller” 250 watt bass rig with 2x8”& 2x10” speakers. I match the onstage volume of the drummer and if possible setup close to the drums and a wall or corner. Moving the cabinet even a few inches away or closer to the wall can make a big difference. Also, side fill or partial can be very helpful for the sound engineer foh.
Thanks Barry. This is super helpful. I used to run sound at a small club and would run into this problem frequently.
Great info Barry! What I personally do when I have a sub on either side of the stage is to make them work different from each other. That way you will get less cancel interaction. One way to do this is to simply pan say the Kick a bit left and the bass guitar a bit right. Not a whole lot - just enough to make the subs produce sounds slightly different from each other. In that way when the waves interact they are different and therefore cancel less.
Just came across your video and I'm glad I did. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. You being a sound man "Engineer" it's nice to know where to get legit information and answers straight from the source.Thanks Barry✌️😎
My pleasure, happy to help!
Brilliantly explained. I know from experience my bass sounds better when it's at the back of the stage, but now I why, and how to position it on different size stages. Thank you
Glad it helped!
Very interesting, and clearly explained 😎
Great info Barry, Thanks for sharing!
Glad it was helpful!
Awesome lesson on live bass sound. Definitely taking this knowledge to my next show.
Awesome, thank you!
Reminds me when I was playing through my Standel bass amp with a 15" JBL. It couldn't fill the small venue we were in, so, I faced the speaker towards the wall and guess what? Bass just filled the whole room with sound and vibration! Worked perfect!
Really useful. Thanks from Spain
Thanks for watching!
Four string bass E string produces 40HZ and A Five string bass B string produces 30HZ. Though depending on the speaker cabinet determines the amount of low bass HZ. My Epifani four ten cabinet goes down to 40HZ. My Hartke HD112 goes down to 35HZ. I personally use my amp as a back line and run a cable out of my head post DI to the sound board/Mixer. I use two different heads. An Ampeg SVT4Pro and a TcElectronics RH-750. Both have excellent DI's! I turn my amp side ways on the stage for me to hear. What the audience is hearing is in the mix/PA! I have never had a sound man complain. Plus the drummer gets the feel as well me. In ear monitoring is the best way to go though. I totally agree with you on one sub verse's two. Sub placement with one is also less critical on placement.
You took the words right out of my mouth. I play a five string and the low B fundamental is 32hz. I use a FRFR Barefaced Audio Big Twin III for my cabinet. I don't turn up absurdly loud, just enough to "feel" it as we mostly run IEMs. There are occasions where the venue has a crap PA and with the drummer playing electronic drums, I know that my bass plus his kick will either fart out the system, or the volume will be so low people will talk over the band. So it's always nice to be able to turn up my cab and push some bass into the room without relying on the PA speakers.
I have played a number of gigs and play regularly. Most of the time, I am in ears only and just bring a preamp with a DI out. But for the unknown, I'm always carrying a cab. My Barefaced cab is not a huge rig with two 12" woofers and only around 46lbs. But it's all that's needed for most venues...even outdoor venues. I suspect in the video he may be talking about someone dragging in an 8x10 "fridge" or something. I'd never haul around that much cabinet.
Great info! I am building a PA-gig-DJ-subwoofer rig right now.
Very informative to me as a bass player. Thank you 😎✌️
Thanks!
I was playing bass once in an octagon shaped room. OMG. Uncontrolled and loud no matter what and nothing but boom. I was finally able to fix it by placing my bass amp up against the wall with about 2” to spare and facing it. Finally not so boomy not so loud and real tone.
Great Video Barry! Thank you 🙏
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks! Made a lot of sense.
You're welcome!
Ty for this well explained bro
Being a FOH guy for years, I always loved to side-fill the backline. Most people fought me on it at first until they heard the difference.
Great lecture!
Glad it was helpful!
The challenge of small room acoustics such as bars and clubs is often far more complex then large capacity sports venues. The immediate nature of small room reflections and confining boundaries results in very high amounts of destructive interference.
I bring an SVT and 810 to every gig, one or two a weekend. Reason the 810 is so fantastic is the top speakers are close enough to my ears that I can hear it at a lower volume. Always have trouble hearing combos playing at my calves. I also play a mid focused EQ so I'm not overly boomy and cut through so I'm easy to hear. I only need enough volume to hear over the drums and I'm good. Usually need pa support as well. Great video by the way
awesome video alot of super uselful information that nobody talks about
Glad you think so!
Kickass videos Barry very helpful for real world musicians
Thanks!
Thank you very much very helpful !!!
You're welcome!
Regards from Spain Barry, thanks for the info and video.
Thanks! That's awesome!
This guy has mega sound guy energy hahaha. What a master.
I appreciate your videos
Thanks!
I like your presentation manner.
If you don't mind, I suggest you describe directional perception of hearing in terms of phase delay rather than time delay, because time delay is not changed by frequency, but phase delay is changed, so it makes more sense to visualise it this way. Yes. I know you understand & translate these words to mean phase delay, but your novice audience probably doesn't. They probably assume low frequencies travel faster than high frequencies when you explain it as a time delay.
Thanks for the suggestion!
Great stuff!
Glad you think so!
Great content
Thanks! I had a horn loaded 1x18 cab/Acoustic 370 bass rig many years ago and that cab started working at about 50 feet. It would destroy the back of the bar and i could barely hear it. "The Fridge."
I had the 370 also back in the day and you're correct sometimes you could hardly hear it on stage but back against the walls in the venue it would cranks like hell-
It is frustrating when players don't "get it". Its not only the volume that they don't know how to manage, but its also the frquencey range they don't know how to adjust for live playing either. And quickly turns into sonic mud, and makes you want to leave the room.
After 35 years on guitar I'm moving to bass so I can work with some great players, so this was awesome for me, so thanks a million
Great to hear!
Always the battle of egos.... Hope to get on stage again, just to be nice to sound tecnicians...
Excellent tutorial
Glad you liked it!
Great video. Will use for next gig with stage that goes right up to back corner of the room. And great point about e drums…never heard one that sounds real
This the first time ive seen anything regarding this, it explains alot of my perceptions, I am not a gigging musician. I have gone threw alot of equipment to try to recreate a headphone bass experience. I play in a room just about 18ft or less. with windows and doors open I love what I sound like with everything closed I got to move around to find the sweet spot, I been perplexed by this problem for years, bought basses cabinets way to much for someone with my skill level or lack of skill, I get depressed when I change strings i sound like a guitar, fixed that by using 77 warm flatwounds. I go to guitar center someone playing a fender 40 sounds beautiful way better than my ampeg classic svt... I must dive more into this subject, great video
Thanks! Glad it helped.
*Q: Can rotating the direction it's facing 15 to 30 degrees help* in really small spaces?
i.e. small practice spaces, small stages, or corners of a small bar, where moving even 3-6 feet isn't an option.
I've been tempted to angle the cab a bit so I can hear, but that would be a not good idea to separate from the floor, it seems.
Can't be crouching down, to face right into the speakers for very long... bad back, no fun to play that way, etc.. haha.
And I've gotta say: *This was like a master class on sound principles.* Wow. Thank you SO much for sharing your experience and knowledge.
Plus, with a really pleasant speaking style and voice that did not get old or irritating.
In fact, the further along, the more I realized it was so pleasant.
/Subscribe and bell rung
Thanks! Guitar amps can be directional, so angling them towards your ears can often help. Bass amps, with lower frequencies (and longer wavelengths) tend to be more omnidirectional so small position adjustments have a lot less impact.
Great video, thanks! Taking the 60 Hz frequency as a reference, to keep the cancellations to a minimum in this frequency you should keep the bass amp within 1,43 m (4.7 ft) from the walls. That distance corresponds to 1/4 wavelength at that frequency. This would have the added benefit of reinforcing other higher frequencies as well.
Regarding the subwoofers location, I tried a non-standard solution in a simulation software and it seems to work fine. Instead of turning one of the subs off you could delay it by the time it takes for the sound from the other sub to arrive at the second sub location. That way the sound is in phase and you don't get those severe power-alleys you get when both subs are in sync. As long as the delay time stays within the 30 ms limit (10.3 m or 33.8 ft), our ears should no perceive it as a delay, but rather as part of the same sound. In theory, it works a lot better than the stereo-sub approach.
Good idea! I'll have to experiment with that. Thanks!
@@Barry-Watson that's amazing! Please, let me know when you test it
Barry, @ 13:15... all I could think was that it was summer time, and the venue had the A/C on, full blast.
Although your original point of not carrying a massive rig into a small venue will always stand, I disagree that killing all stage volume is the way to go. Musicians can like it or not, but where it gets really awkward is if you're in the front rows and all you're getting from the stage is drums, with the PA blaring over your head. You end up hearing a shitty mix. This is coming from a mostly rock context, I remember in the early 2010s when many bands were going ampless, I've had countless shows ruined because suddenly stage drums dominated the entire mix. I firmly believe cabs on stage, at a reasonable volume, are a necessity for live shows to feel live. I can see many of those ampless bands gradually going back to having stage volume.
Agreed. Just keep the stage volume loud enough to compete with the drums and no louder. This will give the sound guy max headroom.
Thanks
Good info from a soundman points!
I've found 1-10 or 1-12 , 200 watts is plenty for most venues
W a sound man you can go thru sub woofers
Good tip!
Great post I learned much thank you , there is a Marcus Miller clinic on video where he explains EQing the room that helped me in the way this one did
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
EQ isn't a magic fix -- the room is going to resonate/ring at whatever frequencies are supported by its dimensions and materials. You can use EQ to put a little less drive at those problem frequencies, and that can help, but you can't fix physical room problems with the EQ.
@@Barry-Watson thank you for your response,
Cheaper alternative is pair 2 inch wire cutters; that would help balance things out the bass.
Thank you, Sir for your information. In my band, the keyboard player's monitor seems to be cancelling my bass amp which is not plugged into the DI. My bass amp and keyboard monitor are facing each other about 8ft apart. I literally thought my bass amp went down once! I mentioned it and they told me to turn my bass up. I really don't want to blast it any louder than it already is. After listening to your video, I will see if we can angle the keyboard monitor away from my bass amp. Any thought you have would be appreciated.
That's a great example! I'd try to move the keyboard monitor so it points at him, and not you. Or change the distances by maybe moving one of you to the other side of the stage. Thanks for the comment!
@@Barry-Watson I think you just fixed my problem too. I had a question written out but deleted it. If this doesn't work tomorrow night I might re-post my question.
Had 2 of those bands this weekend. Had the snare, drum overheads, both toms, the kick, and the bass guitar were turned to zero in the FOH console. I carry a pair of hearing protectors with the brand Winchester on them I wear when a band does that. Sometimes they notice I'm not wearing headphones, but hearing protection.
Oh yes. Those are tough nights when you're responsible for sound, but don't really have the control you need. Fortunately for me, most of the bands I've worked with understood that insane stage levels usually don't deliver a clear and balanced sounding show to the audience.
Another night, another show. Hopefully your next adventure will be a little easier to handle.
@@Barry-Watson Most shows are great. We had two bands at the fair who were fantastic on the sound check. Everyone quiet except the mic being adjusted and the rest of the band raised their hands and pointed up until the level in their monitor was set for that input, then gave the OK and put their hand down. Best sound check and setting of monitors ever. Went down the line of inputs, set the "Me" level, then the rest of the band, then moved to the next. Wish all bands did that instead of everyone trying to noodle their parts during the line check. I picked that up and am starting to instruct bands on that way to do the sound check. Not all bands are more trainable than herding cats.
@@isettech There was a workshop about getting off and onstage asap at NXNW one year. I would like to invite you to inquire at Treefort in Boise, Idaho where you could do a workshop on this. Lots of touring bands come thru every year and could really use the advice. That's just a great tip: just hand-signaling the sound guy. I'd bet you are full of tips like that. If Boise is not your region, SXSW could use your advice among others.
You may find this video interesting:
czcams.com/video/TbNCZsNrhvY/video.html
@@havable Most of this I learned while hanging with a production company as I picked up the lighting after going to a show and nobody touched the lights for the entire show. Got permission to play with the lights, and I've worked with them ever since. County and State fairs have the stage active all day, so much of the day does not need lights, other than a small fill for shadows. The evening acts are much more hands on in the lighting, so most of the day picked up the best of the stage work. Worked a stage this summer when a sound engineer could not make it one day. It went well. The event had a new act every hour through the day, so in and out quickly was the norm.
Liked And subscribe. Great video. Looking forward to seeing you again soon on your next broadcast
Awesome thank you!
This bass player was probably an amateur. I learn very quickly that I can't just cranck up bass on amp and shake walls. I use 2x12 cab and 400W hybrid amp. It's compact rig. I can get great sound on stage without rumble and hear myself great in every situation. Most of the time I set everything flat. FOH get clean uneq sound from my amp and I set my amp to HEAR MYSELF on stage not shaking walls or make another PA system from my rig. Bass is tricky as you said. That's why appropriate MIDS ARE KING! Never need boost bass knob on my amp on stage. Sometimes even turn down a little bit. I learn that PA subs have more lows and better sound that my bass cab for sure. That's why I always treat my amp and cab rig as a monitoring on stage not PA. I played many times with inears but nothing can replace playing without isolation and with saturated sound from cab speakers. And this guy you talked about is an amateur ignorant and he doesn't know his gear and physics/acoustics.
Good advice. He was a good musician, a good guy, he just didn't realize the impact of location on his sound. It's always a better show when the instruments on stage aren't overwhelming the FOH PA.
My first thought was he was using a Folded Horn cabinet and if I remember correctly that cabinet is made to throw the sound out and not in front of the cabinet. The old Acoustic 361? of the 60"s and 70's.. Using the acoustics of the room to your advantage. We played at Delhi College NY back in 1979 and I remember the room was tremendous and the north wall was all glass from ceiling to floor. WHAT A NIGHTMARE. But I digress.
I did a some shows at a bar that was a square room, with glass walls on all sides.
Yeah, that was an acoustic handful.
Do plenty of gigs. For big shows I Bring my 610 cabinet with a 450 Watt head. Small bar shows, I Bring along my 50 Watt combo.
Bass player here, 50yrs gigging, best outdoor bass sound I've ever heard was when the soundcrew and PA from Greatwoods,Tweeter center MA. did the sound. The stage was elevated, building behind it but covered in canvas on back and sides. Subs on ground one facing forward and the other facing back. Any experience with this? Bye the way good video!
Thanks! Sounds like they were pros. At an arena sized show where you have a massive sound system you can direct the mids/highs toward the audience, but the bass frequencies are pretty omnidirectional. So, the performers on stage would be subject to outrageous amounts of bass from a huge PA. To address this the subwoofers are set up in a cardioid configuration. Like a cardioid microphone, controlling sound cancellation makes the bass more directional. They place another group of subwoofers a calibrated distance away from the primary array of subwoofers, and/or use signal time delay. If done correctly they can control how the bass blends from those two groups of subwoofers to create a null zone on stage where the outrageously powerful bass is largely cancelled out, and directed more toward the audience. With proper speaker placement (distance) and delay, you can control the pattern of subwoofer coverage to some degree.
@@Barry-Watson Thanks for the info you're thorough and very helpful
i use a 4x10 can on wheels. ampeg svt 7 pro. cab is 4 ohms. very small amp very powerful. 1,000 watts tell them to get a 30 ft cord. stand (away) from said amp.
I drag my sansamp out to my gigs and go direct with IEMs. If it’s a big gig, I bring my Phil Jones “suitcase” amp.
Yes, I have an SVT tube head and sometimes bring in 2) 810's if the venue is a decent size. It's really about the sound, and there's this amazing thing on the amp called a volume knob!! If it's a rock show let it look like one. It doesn't have to be blasting loud. But also, if the sound system is really good I have just taken in a bass and one of my Tech 21 Sansamps, and they sound great too. To me it's about what is appropriate for the venue.
I used to lay my 810 e cab/s down on their sides and side fill/wash the stage. The coverage was uniform everywhere on stage and I could actually pull my level down because of it. More people need to be willing to turn down regardless of the size of the rig. Coverage and tone are more important than being ripping load.
Two 8x10s? That doesn't look like a "rock show"; it looks like you're compensating for something.
Barry, does the power alley theory apply to an outdoor gig? Would I need to turn one of my subwoofers off if I have a speaker stack on each side of the stage like you described?
Yeah, power alley is the result of two sources, it's not dependent upon a room. Physics applies everywhere. The traditional approach to reduce this effect, would be to place your subwoofers in front of stage center, or at least put some subwoofers at that location.
You could experiment with a delay to one of the sides subwoofer stacks, that won't get rid of the power alley effect, but it will adjust where the peaks and dips occur, as in causing the pattern to turn somewhat.
The good news is, the audience will never notice the power alley effect as long as they don't move around ;)
Ironically, I often bring as much bass rig as I can to a new playing situation just in case it’s “amateur hour“ when it comes to the soundman or the PA system itself. I don’t want to find out that the monitors, FOH, or the soundman are trash and not have any way to compensate on my end. If I know the soundman and the soundsystem are solid, I’ll show up with in-ear monitors and no amp at all.
So would forward ported cabinets be better than rear ported cabinets?
Maybe slightly, but low frequencies (
Here in Greece we need a 60 watt amp to play in a club. I let others put my amp in place AND fix the controls, as they KNEW this better than me.
Cool! I'd love to visit Greece!
Very afformative back in the day i always placed my amp in the corner of the wall at bar gigs facing an angle towards the band with no PA support we didn't have a sound man. PA was for singing only no subs like in the early 70s. Now times has changed i carry my Di preamp and use the cab as a monitor for myself. We where broke highschool musicians then everything peavey. 😂
Thank you for sharing your musical journey!
The secret to have a great bass sound is, depending on the amp * and music style), to not have too much low end. You are going to hear 80hz much better anyway.
And PA guys love me..
My ultimate point would be bar owners (where live music still exists) should invest in acoustic treatment (diffusion, bass traps, foam, etc...) A full room of bodies helps with absorption. But the room should sound great empty!
Yes! A reasonably controlled room acoustically is less stressful for patrons (and staff), and might even result in longer visits and greater sales.
The best place is right into the DI box.
I know Geddy Lee got rid of stage amps years ago.
What about keyboard players? Where to place amp?
Same recommendations!
How about subs behind the Drummer
That sounds loud! I'd be concerned about the potential of feedback from the kick drum or bass guitar mics. The folks on stage probably would not enjoy that much bass.
@@Barry-Watson 😆lol yea, i thought as much... i do remember a previous band where the drummer had his own sub, but he kept it really low
Yeah, I've worked with bands who have a drummer that wants a lot of kick in the foldback, and many wedges don't offer enough low end to really deliver that well.
I've used subs+wedge with some drummers, but in those cases I had control on that buss, so the sub was just for the drum monitor, not the house.
This is where a throne kicker type device is handy. This way you get the feel of the kick, that I think drummers are desiring from a sub.
I always listen to the sound man...
You should too 😅
Q What do you throw a drowning bass player ? A: His amp :)
Place it where it will not upset the guitar player, they are very fragile.
title said BASS AMP, not pa sub woofers.
Yup. The video is primarily about the impact of bass amp on stage placement, but I do mention that PA subwoofers can experience the same issues. They both excite the room in approximately the same frequency range.
Couldn't you just send the bar manager to deal with this bass buster?
Depends on the venue, in this case it was my job to make sure that the artists have what they need, and that the bar gets a good sounding show delivered (on-time). I wouldn't call in security, or the management, unless we had a serious problem with somebody.
Bass player here was a nice guy, and he wasn't trying to cause any trouble, he just didn't realize what was happening out in the audience with his stage level.
First....
Sound waves are longitudal waves not transverse, so the diagram is wrong.
Second...
E string is 41hz... so 330m/s divided by 41 hz = 8m wavelength (26ft or so).
However, the rest of your explanation is spot on about nodes and standing waves.
I have taught physics for 16years and have been obsessed with bass frequencies.
Thanks!
#stopusingcabs
Remember kids….don’t do drugs…sound guys lol