Church on Trial - Why men hate going to church - Speaker : David Murrow
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2014
- David Murrow speaks from his best selling book: Why Men Hate Going to Church
More about David
Why are men and boys fleeing Christianity? David Murrow has dedicated his life to answering that question. He's a best-selling author of 'Why Men Hate Going to Church.'
Murrow is an entertaining speaker who handles this taboo subject with humour and grace. He's a television producer and writer by trade.
Murrow comes to us all the way from Chugiak, Alaska. Spend some time with David Murrow and learn why people are leaving religion behind.
An old danish saying goes like: its better to sit in a bar and think about god, than sit in the church and think about beer.
Legendary
Absolutely brilliant 😂!
That reminds me of the question that was asked in The Two Popes. It was something along the lines of if it were okay to smoke while praying, or pray while smoking.
There's a country song called mind on fishin that summarizes this actually really well
I have a renewed respect for the Danish! LMAO
"His gifts are largely unwanted and unneeded in the church." Wow !
No joking! The only gift men bring that the church wants is our money! The only gift!
@@inconnu4961 Very often, that is the only gift even traditional wives accept from their husbands also. I am married 40 years and my wife is not like that BUT, she is that rare ruby of Prov 31. FEW women are a Prov 31 wife. If rubies were as common and pebbles, they would not be so precious. Yet almost all Christian wives think they are that kind of wife.
Jesus built Christianity on the 12 apostles (who were all men) and he commanded the respect and loyalty of those men because he practiced what he preached, and was willing to die for it.
Most churches don’t even open their bibles, and don’t have the guts to stand their ground on the tough moral stands. Men won’t follow leaders like that.
Women should be prohibited from attending church, bible studies and as such, we should stay home and ask our fathers or husbands at home if married like Corinthians says.
Agreed. When I asked would they lay their lives down for their own beliefs in church, I was told that would be dumb and completely pointless. After hearing that I was done with the church. If they cannot stand by what they preach in the face of death, then they are false prophets to me!
@@jeannemaribel5421 if women didn't go to church and stayed home there would be no church. The church is made up mostly of women and it is the women that have been praying and interceding and doing most of the work. The church would be non-existent without women.
@@jeannemaribel5421 and the reason why women had to ask their husbands in Corinth is because women were not given an education they could not read the Bible for themselves they were also not allowed to read the Bible so they HAD to ask their husbands. But today we are not illiterate we are allowed to read the Bible and we ourselves can hear from the holy spirit so we don't need to ask our husbands. Each Christian male or female has their own relationship with Christ and cannot have a relationship with Christ through someone else.
@@VoxDeiUniversity I couldnt disagree more! everything in society has been created by and maintained by men! before the WOMEN were cooking, teaching, nursing, or whatever female-oriented tasks we think of MEN did them first! And the managed to survive long enough for us to know about it today! Read through ALL the messages here about men who have been to church and who are willing to go to church IF there were men-oriented (things that have outward displays of masculinity) churches or church groups and men would attend them. You are such a simp for women, dude! Every comment I read i imagine you saying you with a soft lispy voice because its SO female friendly and male bashing!
I used to joke with my wife about starting a church of football where members would meet on Sunday before football games, eat barbeque, and have sermons that dealt with men's issues and needs, and start a brotherly congregation. After watching this video, I'm starting to think that it may not be such a bad idea.
That’s basically what I did. Anything to become fishers of men
I think God is telling you to do this.
Come on Julio!
They sing for the first 25 minutes at my church. When it's over I go in.
I agree what a time waster that’s the way to do it I’m going to start doing that too
Hahaha...i heard another person say the choir sings for a week
I can’t stand church music. It sucks.
I specifically leave half an hour late just to skip the lovey-dovey Jesus is my boyfriend songs. I mean, for crying out loud? These songs belong in a Taylor Swift album and these weirdos are balling their eyes out and having "praise-gasms" over it.
We used to cry out "God is with us!" Before we charged into the enemy line. Now we say God is my spiritual lover? No thanks.
I know a guy who attends an orthodox Christian church, and let me tell you, they don't put up with that sort of crap. And they must be doing something right because they don't have any of these problems with male attendance.
@@brandonboi9465 LOL exactly, its so cringe!
Modern church strips men of masculinity.
Modern work places also emasculates men.
So men are voting with our feet.
Graciously disagree, I think men want to belong and sadly many churches are run like a business instead of a ministry or hospital for the sin sick..
I have seen many churches care more about doing stuff that seems holy and great, but not care for the needs of men.. also metn are lied to everyday and the enemy tries to isolate us and keep us from holding each other up..
@@rauldelarosa2768 I still say that modern society including church year treats men as if we're all bad guys.
We have to constantly prove ourselves and overcome the bad experiences they have had with other bad men.
@@peterdavid6946 that's a sweeping generalization that's not indicative of the truth, you can't paint all churches with the same brush..
@@rauldelarosa2768 I didn't say all churches.
@@rauldelarosa2768 You have a lot of good ideas and thoughts but he is right: we live in a matriarchy that is more or less hostile to men! Just because it hasnt touched YOU yet doesnt mean other people dont experience it. Its like this guy is on the west side of town saying its raining, you are in the east side saying he is wrong, its sunny outside. The rain is coming, my brother, be patient! you gonna get wet soon!
This is what the church tells women: “Proverbs 31 is an unrealistic and unattainable standard that shouldn’t be taken literally.”
This is what the church tells men: “Love your wives the way Christ loved the church. Ephesians 5:25. You should be willing to die for her. Her shortcomings are your responsibility. Your children’s shortcomings are your responsibility.”
It's utterly insane, the dichotomy!
The fact is most men ARE willing to die for their wives. Even the insufferable ones. A High School kid at the Aurora Theater shooting, covered his GIRLFRIEND'S body with his. He took all the bullets, he died, she lived. They weren't even married, just dating, and he did that.
What's worse, is almost everyone I see completely bastardizes the meaning of that verse to claim that men are to lay down their lives, FIGURATIVELY for their wives. In other words. Whatever YOU want to do, men, forget about it, LAY DOWN YOU LIFE for your wife. Do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING she demands.
And OHHHH how the wives LOVE to paraphrase the verse as such. Not actually quote it, but just completely paraphrase it to say, YOU need to lay down your life, live SACRIFICIALLY for ME!!!
It's absurd. The command was to LOVE their wives AS Christ loved the church. The part about Him dying for the church was to illustrate what LEVEL of love. The GREATEST, as Jesus said, greater love has no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend. Jesus LITERALLY died for the Church which proved He had the Greatest love. THAT'S the kind of love men are to have for their wives, the greatest, it is NOT a command for men to be her slave and deny himself daily to serve his wife.
Meanwhile completely ignoring the several verses ALL around it, over and over telling wives to submit to their husbands IN ALL THINGS, AS UNTO THE LORD.
Even supposedly pro men pastors like Doug Wilson refuse to hold women accountable but instead dump all the responsibility without any real authority on men. The modern Church is sick, and the sign of the illness is head coverings. Just as the male clergy of the largest denominations wear funny hats and refuse to marry in clear contradiction to Scripture; so does the modern Church attending woman show her rebellion and disregard to Scripure by not putting on a hat, or veil or SOMTHING on their head.
Don't wanna hug strangers!!!!!!!!
I hear ya!
"One day I was sitting in church bored..."
There's your answer right there.
if church is boring its cos u havent noticed the drama the women are up to
@@jeffbigbear1766 That's entertainment?
It not necessarily someone’s fault if they’re bored at church. Happens from time time; no need to be judgmental about it.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Ummmmm, since I was just making a joke, you're the one being judgmental.
@@DMichaelAtLarge didn’t seem like a joke
Why is it that men are in charge but are making decisions that are not appealing to men? It would have been great to have an example of a church that has made the said changes and showed growth of men.
men do that all the time cos we whipped
@@jeffbigbear1766 Exactly! We call these men 'simps' they are there to APPEASE women, because women complain loudly and a lot when they dont get their way! LOL
Money. Women spend the money and control family budgets. Men don’t don’t show up. Easy math
I'm in exile as far as the church is concerned, I still have my strong faith in god, i work hard to curb any earthly aches, and Sunday's and Thursdays at worship used to be very special to me, but there was too much hypocrisy and judging you for not been subservient enough to individuals who wanted me to come to their expectations...but I've always been my own man, and never would lower myself compare to anybody else in the church...what ought a man to be?...himself.
There is one more thing:
I'm 30 and I always thought I'm gonna find my wife in Church. The problem is that in Church, single women are not interested in single men. There is no chemistry whatsoever. Lately I learnt that most of these woman have non-christian boyfriends that they don't bring to church. Some of them are cohabitating with them. And no one in Church is telling them this is wrong, there is no accountability for them.
I grew up in Christian environment. I was always taught "but only in the Lord" (Cor I 7,39) and I really wanted to marry a girl that is also a Christian. Turns out they are not interested in us.
How are young men supposed to win against that?
Some book came out in the mid 90s (I can't remember the name, something "dating"). It completely wrecked any sense of romance, especially with the women. The women have made God their surrogate lover to fill their primary needs of emotional and spiritual. They sing and worship in relationship oriented songs and lectures where Jesus is my perfect lover, Jesus is my boyfriend, walking hand un hand with Jesus, talking to Jesus, etc. It's a very rude, sacrilegious belief system that has left them spiritually widowed from any potential men in their lives.
They also believe that "God will give them the perfect man." Tailored specifically for them. There are 780,000+ words in the King James Bible, of all those stories and books, there are only two instances where God acted as a heavenly matchmaker. Adam and Eve, Isaac and Rebecca... that's it. Nowhere else. They don't understand that a man's primary needs are physical (which their lovey-dovey bf jesus can't ever fulfill). They view us as potential threats in the beginning, but even if you get past that, what you're left with is someone who is completely adverse to the idea of intimacy outside of (maybe) producing children. So many married men in the church when they open up about it describe the hell scape that is their sexless marriage once they had children.
So the church is completely feminized. The women view young single men as sinners and potential perpetrators. The men feel ostracized. They leave and find partners outside of the faith and never return. The likelihood of them bringing their non-religious partner to the place they felt ostracized at and treated then like that is non existent. And for some reason the church can't wrap their heads around the problem.
Another thing to point out is that this video and these conversations were happening 9+ years ago. Those men who stood up are either in or approaching their 40s. The gender ratio for Christian churches has grown exponentially since then. For every church that "claims" a 50/50 divide, there are churches that are ringing the alarm bell with number 20% and below of male attendance.
I put "claim" in parentheses because most churches that were asked to tally their numbers for researchers were also tallying young boys (10
@@hwd7Dude invited you into a racist church. What a friend. Lol?
@@brandonboi9465 thank you!
"The women view young single men as sinners and potential perpetrators."
That is exactly how I was treated and how I feel. What is worse, my own family taught me that I'm a filthy sinner for having sexual desires. I'm mentally blocked in finding a wife because I feel like I'm guilty of even wanting to have one. I was even more shunned for wanting a beautiful wife. "What are you providing, what is so special in you that you want to have a beautiful wife?!" - that was their first reaction. I was maybe 14-15 at the time. My sister and father made sure I was feeling bad about this.
@PaulKHeld That's a terrible thing to say to your son or brother. Seriously, I would never say that to my brother... Okay, I definitely would say that to him, but only because it's true! Lol. (His wife would agree. She's awesome) But all jokes aside, if you're seriously offering marriage and commitment, then you are offering more than what 90% of men our age have to offer. But unfortunately, they tend to waste so long until they open their eyes that they can't provide you with children at all.
would have been nice to be able to see the slides.
It’s because men don’t stick around for a phony scam. Most churches don’t preach the FULL GOSPEL. If the spirit of the Lord is not in that church it will not keep godly men around. Women fall for every false church in existence, even the cults are almost always one guy and a bunch of women.
LOL this is true! This why scams normally target women because they are so gullible!
There is one simple answer to the title of this video.
It is because most men are looking for what they can get from worship, not what they can bring.
One does not need a person posessing a doctorate to inform them of this.
You aren’t paying attention.
You devalue what I have to bring, why should I bother?
If your “worship” requires me to act and articulate in ways that do not reflect my response to God, then you are asking me to lie in my worship. You are demanding that I be dishonest. Doing that shows no love for God, nor men.
@@peterwebb8732
Perhaps you shouldn't.
Not necessarily. If you were supposed to visit someone's house every week, perhaps for hours, and that person in that house was presented as someone who has little in common with you, you would start to avoid it. Also...men are literally bombarded ALL WEEK long about how awful they are, how "patriarchal" and evil they are, and then they are expected to go to their Father's house, (that looks like it was decorated by women), and give what is not naturally in them to give...femininity. And then suppose that the music ALWAYS sounded like it was from a cambodian street musician. Shouldn't your "spiritual maturity" be enough to get you over that? Or would it start to work on your nerves after every week for years? Men are weary of being told by EVERYONE how they "need to get in touch" with their feminine sides" while being told that they aren't "man enough". Take that same guy and put him in a stone cathedral with booming hymns and he will react very differently.
LOL perfect example of an emasculated simp.
But far easier to just keep heaping on the blame and responsibility than DARE to cross women who rule the church.
It's STUNNING how afraid of women most Christian men are, especially pastors.
Because the church thinks women can do no wrong
The church bowed to them like the leftist use them against us.
All of society thinks like this now! they see women as angels & suffering saints!
@@inconnu4961guess you haven't heard the doctrine of women remain silent in the church, can't lead and women can't teach
@@inconnu4961you are flipping blind
47 years a Christian and only once, about 40 years ago, did I see the Church actually formally hold a woman accountable. I have seen MANY men disciplined.
I'm a little late to this conversation, but I'll give you my story in a nutshell. My dad was a pastor, and despite that, I was never a true believer. My earliest recollections are of skepticism. There was something about the Bible stories that just never added up. It all just reeked of BS to me. When I was about ten years old, I asked my dad how we can know that the Bible is true. He got this look of death on his face, grabbed me and said, "You don't ever, EVER, question the word of God! Do you understand?" It scared the living shit out of me. I knew right then and there that it was all BS. I also knew to never bring the subject up again, and I never did. That was the first, and last time I ever discussed religion with my dad. When I tell that story to my Christian friends and family, they would say something along the lines of, "Don't let your dad's bad behavior affect your faith, and I would tell them that he wasn't behaving badly, he was doing exactly what his God was telling him to do;. He was following the example given to him by God which is , "I love you, now love me back, and do as I say or I am going to hurt you really, REALLY, bad." That is God's message to all of us, and that is just one of many reasons why I'm not a believer.
I understand why you say these things. I said the same things. What I found is that God wasn't saying that he was going to "hurt me really bad". He was saying that if I deny Him, He would give me my wish and let my spirit exist without anything of God in it. Kinda like saying' "I'm not going to freeze you to death, but if you don't want anything to do with my heat, I will remove all of it from your presence....which leaves nothing but cold.
29:52, its not just divorce. Even friendship, Christians are more likely to stick it out with a friend too. One of my best friends in the church is a know-it-all and I was really tempted to stop talking to him after we had an argument but then I realized that's not what Jesus would do. We are to love our brothers no matter what so I let it go and I'm glad to have him as my friend.
church should be like a military bootcamp not a place of holding hands and singing.
Read Jamie Walden`s book Omega Dynamics he is a ex marine soldier he know about warrior spirit he have bootcamps. Another I listen to are a ex Navy seal Mark Divine he wrote books " Unbeatable mind are great about ethos moral he is not Christian but this is what gods people should be like . Remenber God are called a god of war the whole Bible are about war between God and satan Jesus said he did not come with peace he come to divide and with sword. He is the risen King in heaven the lion of Juda and his second coming are as a warrior to destroy all evil . Men should do manly things I wished we could have bootcamps
Jesus wasn't a militant. In fact he had mostly feminine qualities such as tenderness meekness and gentleness. He wasn't a macho Meathead. Christianity is about Christ it's not about what man thinks church should be like. We are supposed to be christians meaning he was supposed to be Christ-like. Not Rambo like.
@@VoxDeiUniversity Jesus was incredibly masculine, what are you talking about? He aggressively blasted many people in his time for the moral hypocrisy and chased people out of the temple courtyard with a whip. Doesn’t sound feminine to me.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 You are BOTH right. Jesus was a balance of the two! But people focus on what resonates with them most! Women love 'gay' Jesus, and men hate 'gay' Jesus! LOL
@@inconnu4961 Which one comports best with how he is depicted in Holy Scripture, though? I don’t see much of “gay” Jesus in the gospels, though there are perhaps elements.
Is there a version of this video that lets us see his presentation, instead of being zoomed in on the speaker?
Bulwark: a solid wall-like structure raised for defense, That's Manly!
A lot of these love songs that you hear in these modern-day worship songs are songs written by men.
Probably effeminate men, anyway.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Say it: GAY men! We had the blokes from Saddleback church doing a conference at a local Big Black Baptist congregation, and these clowns came in wearing their skin tight jeans (while the Black guys were wearing nice suits, and us white guys were wearing office appropriate clothes, though not suits) and we both looked at each other and said "who are these gay boys"? ugh, bad conference, bad bible teaching, silly men teachers! but the baptist church and their men were GREAT hosts! Cant stand Saddle back and their lispy leaders.
Because these men are clever marketers and they know that females will eat it up.
This is one of the primary reasons why I left a life of Protestantism/evangelicalism and became Orthodox... I was tired of "playing church".
I know a guy who attends one of those. What's it like? I'm tired of the "relationship oriented" songs and teachings. I always felt like it was sacrilegious to view God as a surrogate lover. And never actually going through the Bible.
@brandonboi9465 Its something to experience if you have the chance! Orthodoxy places reverence of the triune God at the highest - as a modern worshiper who is looking for a "feel good" experience to have Jesus as your best buddy, or even a more rigid verse-by-verse study of the scripture every Sunday - at quick glance it may seem very foreign - but by looking just a bit deeper, you're stepping into a place out of space and time: an embassy of heaven of you will. The experience of the divine liturgy gives the worshipper a closeness to God and thus, his fellow neighbor and is a continuation of the lineage of the apostles that established the church once and for all. We study and have plenty of exegesis and intellectual studies - but the worship services are humbling, transformative and inspire repentance to those who attend because you are standing before the living God.
I once heard a man say "the heart of religion is worship; the heart of worship, is sacrifice." And thus we echo every Sunday in the Orthoros service, the words of King David the Psalmist: "Have mercy upon me oh God, according to thy great mercy - blot out my transgression..." "...The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."
@@brandonboi9465 Still relationship based, but not "Jesus is my bf." It is more *mature* in how the faith is presented and practiced. The way services are setup as well as the layout of the church/temple it is clear the focus is ultimately on God and the wondrous sacrifice of Christ's death and his glorious resurrection.
I came from a Protestant background and Orthodoxy, in my experience, provides the depth of faith (spiritual practices complete with the why's and how's) which are not typically given in Protestantism.
@patricklee8088 Sounds like this version of "relationship" is actually just that, knowing God.
The churches I went to and the one I grew up in turned "relationship" into falling in love with another man. Or, in other words, extremely off-putting. I also found the words in the worship songs to be very inappropriate (tweak the words, and it could easily be a Taylor Swift song).
Sounds to me like you attend a normal, healthy church. Lucky you lol.
@@brandonboi9465 “come and see” visit a Orthodox Church and observe
I left because I saw the same hypocrisy that Jesus so adamantly opposed.
It is not the healthy who need a healer, but the sick … nonetheless there are backslidden Christians, and also false converts in the church. That’s not an excuse to not attend if you’re a believer.
@@mmaphilosophytheologyscien4578 while very, very true, it is a huge turn off when you are trying to escape the phony baloney of the secular world ONLY to find it in church too!
The way church operate the last 500 years is not biblical- see 1 Corinthian 14-
mark harris we are church or living stones of the spiritual temple 1 Peter 2:4
Wow.
Could you elaborate?
Applause applause applause
We can’t go to church because we’re the living stones of the spiritual temple 1 Peter 2:4.. The church is the body of Christ with the Lord Jesus Christ as it’s only head and Great High Priest forever. Be living stones of the spiritual temple 24/7
Most churches are apostate. If the Holy spirit were there its be full
28:10 he's right when u have a more liberal out look you will attract more women cuz when you think about it the black community is the most liberal and its ran by women lots of single parent households
As a black male Christian I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why our community is so messed up because most of it is ran by females instead of males . I am one of the few of my friends that grew up with a masculine father and mother , and my father ran the household as it should be.
You sound like someone who is ready to hear the truth of the matter. Let me open your eyes further on the matter. Look up some of Kevin Samuels videos and step into the light!
@@jonathans3075 even better than samuels is Jesse Lee Peterson
Those are 2 different ideas:
1) women are more liberal than men.
2) women who are liberal become single parents more often than those who are conservative leaning
I understand the first idea, and there’s plenty of studies to back that. The second idea is where I’m having trouble. And how does race factor in exactly? If a woman is single, then she’s single. What does that have to do with political beliefs?
Our preacher named people who gave the least in the collection plate. He had the congregation stand, point and yell to Hell you go straight to Hell. After 17 years of fear I never would walk into another church.
That's why Jesus turned the money changers tables over.
@@ella5319 I agree, he had affairs behind his wife's back.
@@reglook1 sounds like a fundamentalist, heretic or both
You know Jesus had to forcibly remove those people from the temple? Imagine trying to kick everyone out of a store without being violent...you can't.
That means at some point in time when one of these dudes died and met his maker he turned around at the line and said "yo!? I think that's the guy who punched me in the face!?"
"Bro you're so screwed"
@@brandonboi9465 it’s funny you mention that… I think the story of the money changers is probably one of the best pieces of evidence that Yeshua was *not* a strict pacifist; he simply frowned on violent revenge.
Read the Exodus Theory: Journey into the Spiritual Wilderness.
I am a woman and do not enjoy going to church or fellow ship with most Christians in general, not because I don't love God/Jesus or even other Christians, but I find the lack of ability to see people for who they are is mutilating any efforts and honesty that we as Christians should project.
"Truth will set you free" does not mean spewing Bible text up and down at people and using God's name 10 times in one sentence. Truth will set you free means look at yourself, practice self reflection and see what it is that you need to work on. The Holy Spirit will reveal this to you.
Bdave2049 has got it right, do not stereotype it is our #1 disease and our B&W thinking while we live in a world of million shades of grey will be our downfall. We are called to be wise in a foolish world.
It took my a while till I finally realized that there are situation and instances that cant have an immediate conclusion mainly because of the time we are living in. I am in no way saying that Bible is out dated but the way us as Christians are going about responding to the these new grey area are. I may not have the answers to everything or know whether or not XYZ is bad what I can do is do what I know is right with the knowledge and convictions I currently have until the holy spirit reveals something different or find the truth on my own in time
I always figured it was a personality trait that the church filtered out. But you can use the term men and women since we typically fall into certain categories. So women who share more masculine traits are also turned off by the post modern christian church (Tom boys, lol. Remember those? Now they're teaching them that they're actually boys trapped in a girls body. Lord have mercy.)
I always wondered why the young men you find in church were always so weird to me. It's either the wimpy, can only curl a dinner plate, flip flop wearing effeminate guy. Or the musical, knitted his own beanie, coffee shop culture guy who doesn't have a real job (or at least one that can support more than just himself).
For 2K years in simple obedience to Scripture women covered their heads in Church. When the Protestants followed Vatican 2 and decided to rebel against this simple requirement to appease feminists the Church rapidly declined. The uncovered woman is a symptom of a deep disease which includes pastors blaming husbands for the rebellion of the wife. Read Dalrock for a better perspective.
Dalrock is great. Biblical Gender Roles is a good site too
Maybe the lutheran churchstyle could be the path? No holding hand,no spasing out,no wheeping just a bit of Classic hymns and a sermon, and then the lords supper.
No way. Give me a contemporary style service any day. And if not a contemporary style, then my next choice would be a meditative, contemplative type of service. That's if I even go back to church.
@@bdave2049 nothing wrong with contemporary worship, necessarily. Though, high church Anglican is my choice. Catholic, but not Roman Catholic.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 Whatever suits you is your choice and your business. Each to their own as the saying goes. But that style of service wouldn't suit me. And, as I have said repeatedly in these comments, I'm tired of people putting gender onto it.
@@bdave2049 probably the reason people keep putting gender on it is because that’s arguably part of the issue.
@@TitusCastiglione1503 It's only an issue (or a part of the issue) because people like you and David Murrow make it an issue. In recent years, I have not been able to have a conversation about making social connections, my mental health and well-being, or my spiritual journey without someone bringing gender into it. "Do you want go to men's group?", "How about doing men's program?", "Have you thought about going to local Men's Shed" and so on. It seems that they're putting gender onto everything - mental health, community connection, spirituality and even meditation (yes, in my country they even promote men's meditation groups). And now it seems that gender should determine what sort of church service one should like.
No, my gender does not define my interests, my values or who I relate to. And I'm tired of people like Murrow presuming to tell me how I think or what I like based on gender. Murrow does not speak for me. No, I don't find church too feminine or emasculating. It's just the opposite. I didn't even think of gender stuff until people started going on about it. It's the gender stuff that drives me away from church - that and the church's inability to engage in my questions and doubts. And it's not only church. I've had the issues in secular society to the point that I'm finding it hard to break my social isolation reconnect with society. I'm over people putting gender onto everything and it needs to stop.
we have alot of men in church from texas . :D
Time is of the utmost importance!! Let's get busy occupying till He comes!!
2/3-75% of church volunteers are women v
2% of the church is young single men.
Fewer than 30% of young men raised in church will remain faithful over their teens and 20s.
I don't know what you think upon those numbers being said in the video but something just doesn't add up here....
how do? what doesn’t add up?
I am starting to see more single men at catholic mass
People generally dont like being in a place that constantly judges them and tells them theyre toxic.
They dont do this to women. They tell women there is nothing wrong with you and are great, sugar and spice and everything nice.
They tell men "Your wrong! You need to do this! You need to do that!" Thats not a message attractive to men besides the double standards.
this guy is a mix between stefan molyneux and vox day
this is sociological perspective, not addressing the root of the problems, which are : The unbiblical structures of church governance ( church is more a business/ entertainment show were shifty mangina salesmen can extend their influence over their harem of female admirers. Church leaders/ pastors acting as demigods/ the sermon being the focus of the so called church service, instead of the open worship described in scripture. Meaty worship based on psalms has been replaced by trashy sentimental jingles
anybody else laugh when the man with the pink shirt stepped up?
14:15 guy in pink shirt: "F my life"
Most churches are set up so that we all go into a big room and listen to one guy (or set of guys) get on stage and talk every week. Quite honestly, I don't find it to be worth my time either. As the Apostle Paul wrote, "The kingdom of God is not a matter of talk, but of power." (1 Cor 4:20). In every ministry I've seen that focuses on EVERYBODY doing ministry: healing the sick, baptizing, casting out demons, there are LOTS of men. Even more men than women in some instances. Nobody, male or female, interested in playing 8th fiddle to some guy and his cronies on a stage. Gen Z is coming through with serious 'main character energy.' Churches need to catch on quickly!
Not this way in a real church with real preaching from a real bible where they sing real songs with real words to them out of a real hymn book. In these churches there are twice as many men with many single men who can't find a wife. Women tend to go to contemporary churches with contemporary music sung karaoke style with stage lighting and new-age bible messages.
Amen... EXACTLY! All the young single female Christians here wether new Christian or long time...end up in the fancy modern "churches". And try to berate you for going to a proper Church. No thanks
WOW! Exactly! I go to an independent Baptist church and that's exactly that way. More Men than women and all the singles are men. Great place to worship, and fellowship.. not so great if you are looking for a woman. The only women that go are married.
Amen and AMEN!
I had to leave my church because all of the men straight up left. They tried to say that it was the average 60/40 when I brought it up, and I quickly realized they were counting the little boys in Sunday school whose mothers dropped them off. I counted around 100 or so people, but there were only 12 guys, including myself. And I was the only guy under 30 and over 20. The place was awful lol.
You'd think with all of the complaining they did about there being no men they'd actually strike up a meaningful conversation with you, but it was the opposite.
Men would have never attended the early church because the Apostles Paul told them to greet each other with a "Holy Kiss".
Snap out of it! The “Christian Church” ended in AD 70.
…….
No
Domestic violence perpetration is not a mostly male on female act, it is almost 50-50 between the sexes. Because women are more likely to over-report or false report (being a victim pays lots of dividends for a woman) and men are more likely to under-report (A woman who is a "victim" is still fully a women, a man who is a victim is no longer looked at as a real man), researchers strongly suspect women initiate and participate in more domestic violence than men.
Because men typically are much stronger physically most women feel they don't have a chance once a man chooses to express his anger in a physical fashion. And since he is angry they don't know how far he might go with this.
This is where the threat - intended by the man or not - comes into play for a woman.
I don't believe men physically actually ever feel overwhelmed by a woman even should she become physically abusive with him.
After having been attacked by my ex he confessed at a later time, he was turned on by this physical altercation. I knew that during his hockey playing time, he had put 4 people in the hospital and 1 of them died. Throughout previous discussions he had grown increasingly more irrational no self reflection only increasing accusations with each argument. When he ultimately resulted to violence I had no idea where when he would stop. I did not share his sense of attraction but instead I was scared for myself.
Needless to say I am no longer in this relationship because feeling safe is of the utmost importance to me as a woman. Although I stood up for myself vehemently I still love this man to this day, but I am not so stupid to put myself in harms way and sincerely pray for him from a safe distance.
@Son Ne You might look into a phenomenon called "Hybristophilia." It's when someone (usually a female) is attracted to a violent personality.
I'm always amazed when women get into a relationship or marry a man who exhibits traits they know to be incompatible with a healthy relationship and then later place all the blame for the failed relationship on the "bad" man.
Women are the choosers in relationships and marriage and need to acknowledge this is not just a powerful, privileged position, it is a position of responsibility.
It's Matt quite ignorant to write a response when you are clearly unqualified or just ignorant. But since I did not know what Hybristophilia is I did google it, just to make sure I don't speak out of line. WoW you really aren't that bright or maybe just a wanna be psychiatrist. Get a refund for your tuition you failed big time. You have no idea how we met or how the relationship was established if you did you would realize how stupid you now sound.
If this indeed would be attractive to me then I would never have left the relationship.
Son Ne You're the now alone woman who, out of all the men you could have married, married a man who you describe as a very physically violent alcoholic, not me. You sure are a winner! Who's the dumb one Son Ne?
It's Matt You already got 3 out of 1 wrong in your first response. You now expose yourself further with this new reply. I never said he was an alcoholic so much to your ability to pay attention to details.
You keep referencing and assuming things about me and the relationship that are far from correct, which makes you unqualified and your mere opinions are just that ;)
Logically when you make numerous illogical assumptions that is what determines your intellect. You want to be right and will argue until you are blue in the face, but you are still unqualified. If you want someone to take you serious get your facts straight and maybe start paying attention not only to what you say but some of the details you put out there.
I'm just going to throw this out here: I don't like to sing - period. I cant read sheet music so all that is meaningless. I really don't like people telling me what to do, say or think and it comes down to: stand up, sit down, stand up, sit down, say these words, sing these songs which i don't know. Greet your neighbor, give us money. and the money goes to places I don't agree with.
Half my church was unsaved/ indifferent to the Word. Then these same have the keys to the kingdom ? Children of Jesus and the devil? Church has been turned into a rotary club.
@4:16, well, I put my hand up. Read Paul and the Gospels like the books for continuous reading they were written as and they are full of the language or sentiments of the left hand column. They are strong, uncompromising, and competitive: the competition between God and the World. Revelation: full of the most graphic battles. Can't get more competitive than that. Yeshua telling off the pharisees, deprecating Herod, standing up to Caiaphas...no end to it. Acts, full of violence, bloodshed, honour, sacrifice for a greater cause...amazing stuff.
.
So, me idea of a church hunting club is not so out of order, then. Helping farmers get rid of vermin, having a good time.
Any female pastor is automatically in rebellion to Scripture. I do not care what success she had, she is in open rebellion.
Amen! women shouldnt pastor men, only women and children!
It's straight up Queen Jezebel Witchcraft.
@@cryptojihadi265 It is the prostitute Theodora who forced icon veneration (which in reality is idol worship). I believe she is referred to as Jezebel in Revelation's Church of Thyatira and the black plague that struck right after she co-ruled the Eastern Roman Empire and led the Church astray fulfilled prophecy. Read the history of Theodora, it is this murderous prostitute that the entire Eastern Orthodox Church follows to this day. If you find this offensive, you find the undisputed facts of history offensive. Even EO historians accept this.
I’m a woman and I hate going to church?
why?
Using the analogy of game / lets use football / men that are into football and all other sorts of games use this analogy so women like myself can better understand what they are going through. I really do want to understand this!!!!
These sports fanatics exclaim that it is the thrill of the game, the physical and mental challenge, which is what inspires and motivates them. Typically the men that enjoy sports games also enjoy video war games. Similar argumentation there it is the mental and physical (not sure where either of these are in a video war game) but lets assume there is, there is plenty of challenge both physical and mental in keeping a family safe and sound together yet statistics claim it is mostly men who walk out on women. I am not here to say these statistics are neither wrong nor right but having interacted with a few men at home, work or school there is not true rational or consistency in logic which would rationalize men's behaviour. David Murrow argues that men generally don't like to sit down and study, or Jesus is too effeminate, but most women that I know they all know who Dwayne Johnson is few have heard of David Murrow. The point being something resonates with the message that Dwayne Johnson sends but little resonates with the message David Murrow is sending. Do not be offended because at least it is a step into the right direction.
If men don't like the Jesus that is being portrayed then change it! If they need more action verses hymns not a problem then change it! The Bible is very clear Jesus chose 12 men not women and they turned out to be men of courage at the end (although they started off as useless wimps) but I don't believe that by women paving the way for men, this will be achieved simply because it would indeed undermine their masculinity.
A bit late in my response, but still.....I'm nearly finished listening to his book "Why Men Hate Going to Church" and he does suggest attracting the more masculine man, to change the focus of the church.
He stops short of saying that you need "The Rock" to lead a sermon, but he comes close.
Most churches are headed by men and he targets his message at the pastors.
@@dumfriesspearhead7398 But even the uber masculine mainline pastors are told to appeal to women's sensibilities! My former pastor was a man's man! he played pro-sports at a junior level, He works out at the gym and looked like an Adonis, he hunted & fished, and then went to the altar and cried like a baby! LMAO it was the craziest thing I ever done saw!
jezebel !!
While he makes some good points, I think he is confusing pop-culture characteristics of being a man (energetic & unable to sit still, sports oriented, etc.) as the way men are. Consider Ps. 46:10. The surrounding verses describe scenes of war and battle, yet the command is "Be still." Or consider when Christ was at the Mt. of Olives, he doesn't tell Peter, James, and John to do some workouts when they got bored holding vigil (i.e. praying while holding a posture of prayer during the night).
Instead of making the Church more friendly to the pop-culture image of manliness, the Church ought to be challenging men to conform to Christ and a godly way of living that promotes worship. Men have been taught by the culture "This is what is means to be a man" and it doesn't match up with the image God has provided.
Dave Hunt called today's worship songs, "7/11 songs".
You sing the same 7 words 11 times.
Discarding the old doctrinally sound hymns for today's pop rubbish is part of the problem.
Sadly this guy has had very little impact.
He have much impact all over the world he wrote the book that say exact why I don't go to church. Men will do manly things activity start up things when we go to church and don't find a tribe where other masculin men are we can never grow
@Devin Lyle definitely, been using flixzone for since november myself :D
@Devin Lyle Yea, I've been using Flixzone for since december myself :D
I’m not a man, but this is an obvious and easy problem to solve.
Men don’t go to church because there aren’t attractive women who are forced to be there. Part of community is having a bountiful selection of singles to network and mingle, possibly marry. No alcohol or drugs involved, just wholesome gatherings to connect with your local community.
Men in 2023 are spending lots of time online, not enough time around women or other men their age. Having events to attract men assumes that churches are feminized, which is case by case. Most pastors are male. Most church leaders are male. Singing silly worship songs doesn’t make the church less male dominant. It’s still men running the entire affair.
It’s time to face the music - men don’t see value in going to a place where the women aren’t attractive and plentiful. You get better odds going to a club or concert than a church. The same women go to both churches and clubs these days, so they’re not missing out on much 😂
This is really cute! you dont believe this though, do you? So why do MARRIED MEN not go to church? why do women in relationships STILL go to church by themselves, without their man? LMAO You clearly have never met a man before or you didnt listen to him if he spoke to you! This maybe the reason why YOUNG SINGLE men dont go to church, but doesnt explain why the rest of us dont go! LOL
@@inconnu4961Considering most of America is about to be unmarried and single by 2030, we should care about why singles don’t go. The church has to grow and you can grow the fastest with a pipeline of young people building families. And single men have said this themselves so not sure what’s “cute” about it. Patronizing :/
Married men don’t go to church because they don’t want to. It’s pretty simple to me. If you work 5-6 days a week, maybe going to church on your one day off isn’t appealing. Your wife begging you to go only works on major holidays.
Not sure how men leading the family to church and leading in prayer requires a gender analysis. You don’t do it because you don’t want to. You don’t want to because you don’t see the value. You don’t see the value because Christianity is your culture and lifestyle, not your true heart’s belief. As per the Bible. The end.
@@ninagrace-lee8323you’re not a man, so you giving your OPINION on why men don’t go to church isn’t valid whatsoever. The only ones who can say why men aren’t going to church are they actual men who don’t go to church. No disrespect but you’re not in a position to say why men aren’t going.
Become Orthodox
i had to be a copy cat it was well said...Not this way in a real church with real preaching from a real bible where they sing real songs with real words to them out of a real hymn book. In these churches there are twice as many men with many single men who can't find a wife. Women tend to go to contemporary churches with contemporary music sung karaoke style with stage lighting and new-age bible messages.
Didn't even mention the number 1 reason men stop going. You're not supposed to wear a hat in church and therefore can't hide your hairloss problems!.. I don't want to be laughed at by women and seen as less than because of this!..
I would think you'd be okay. Comb overs not.
Shave! Looks way better and manly.
Yeah shave that stuff bro. Based af.
I'm sure women do outscore men on finger dexterity, but why wouldn't men just use a Bible app instead?
I don't mind worship, but 45 minutes?!!!
That's what most non-denominational or apostolic or evangelic churches do.
And why man love going to imam bargah Hazrat imam hussain; A S )give me a reason if any one have
I am going to tell you about why man hate going to church
Because they cannot get satisfaction from the church and still they have thousand of questions but imam bargah is the only place that everybody love because when the speech ( majlis )is finish go out side every thing looking beautiful you can get the meaning of life
Legalism. No thanks.
Mixing men and women at church or boys and girls at school, is a negative for the development of men. Men shouldnt follow women, even if the latter volunteers for the leadership role.
Its NOT good for women either, but we still insist on doing it!
I take comfort in the belief in an Evil Lord, the 9od of Abraham, who rules the world of wage slavery and wasted potential. Knowing that the universe is fundamentally malevolent lets me know where I stand. I'm screwed.
Dude go outside cheer up and get some pizza. You’ll feel better.
I know I am a bit late, but the Hebrew Israelites have already solved the problems mentioned in this video.
ITGWF ....cliffhanger...?
I'm a Torah observant Christian, likely a descendent of Hebrews divorced from Israel centuries ago, yet now grafted back in regardless.
But please tell us the rest
Worship songs are to God not for us
God does not care about that.
But God is NOT our gay lover! Most normal men do NOT want a gay lover! @vegata8169 oh contraire mon frere! GOD does care about worship! that was our purpose for being made!
Woman speaking.... may not be the best perspective. But I feel like when you truly have an encounter with Christ. He has changed your life and you know that you know He is real... things like decoration and your appreciation at the church will not affect you seeking fellowship, listening to hear a fresh word from the Lord or all of the other things that go on in the church. And if these things are a bother you will diligently find a church that isn't so frills and feelings. When we have a relationship with Christ He shows us how to look past the things that bother us, find our place in the body of Christ, be able to stand in the midst of tradition, and create boundaries where we aren't comfortable. I count on a man to be able to draw the line when He is uncomfortable and not cower in unfavorable positions.... especially one that is not going to church for religious purposes but one who truly wants to meet Jesus at any and all cost.
shut up.
@@aaronbirook4367 LMAO dont tell her to shut up man, she is actually being respectful AND respectable! Let her speak. its the insufferable nags and misandrists that need to shut up! But thanks for being on the job! Respect!
You have a lot of good insights, BUT you are missing a couple key points. Jesus & the Holy Spirit are in our hearts. We dont NEED church for that (as Christians; the unsaved need it though). We go to church to FELLOWSHIP, that is hang out, with other Believers. therefore, it IS a social club, so it should be a comfortable place for the majority of people who attend. Right now it is mostly comfortable for women, and men who go PUT UP with it. Any where a woman goes, she wants to change things right away to make it inviting for her and other women! Whether its a home, a restaurant, a bar. Marketers KNOW this thats why they spend GOBS of money to make women comfortable, because women spend GOBS & GOBS of money! Spending money is what women do BEST! This is already the truth in the secular world, so of course the church will adopt it too, because they need nickels & noses ( $$ & butts-in-seats).
Unfortunately, football is the right answer 😟.
What drives women and men away is that churches are a just religious tradition..stand up..sitdown, sing trills, repeat depressing irrelevant mssg. Jesus nocking at the door
Women on construcción site, comfortable? Lol only if she's the boss 🤣🤣🤣🤣 this man is part of the problem
Pointless not to see the presentation. What's the point of showing this guy the whole time? smh
Very few people in prison are atheists. Truth be told, those that go to social gatherings are far less likely to commit crimes. If you want to talk correlation, it seems to having less people believing in god would be the way to go. I'm sorry, but I don't think more people need to go to church. More people going to any social gathering would work just as well.
God wants communion with men and he showed this through Christ. They are two sides of the same coin. You cannot abide in Christ without fellowship. You need both.
I guess by that logic frat parties are good for young men and society.
Awww, poor men. Perhaps we can masculate the church by adding a sporting event and serving beer. Yes, let the church serve men so that the men don't have to serve the church.
Now for the truth: men don't attend church because their love for Christ has grown cold.
Your love for men is not exactly shining brightly. Why would I find your attitude attractive?
If your church reflects your attitude, it does not value me, it does not value what ai bring to the table, and it is not wanting to help me in the areas that I need help in.
In other words, it is a waste of my time.
Do notice these men selling books, and speaking trying to sale their books never tell you "How I Would Organize a Church for Men".
You're right. My comment expresses an ugly attitude and I'm sorry for that. I hope you can accept my apology.
My comment was born from frustration but not because I don't care...but because I do care. I would love to see more men attend church and I hope that you too will go. You don't need to bring any special talent, just your presence will speak loudly. I pray you will find a church that meets your needs. We need you in the pew.
@@BeanieUSA that is very true. Problem is that the church sometimes makes that harder than it really needs to be.
@@BeanieUSA Thank you for your apology! its refreshing to hear. Many of us WANT to be in church. Especially as we see Revelations and the End Times unfolding before our VERY eyes! but keep in mind that there is NO safe spaces where men can think and be like men, without nagging women. they have made 'men-only- spaces ILLEGAL! men want to go where we are allowed to be men, and not treated like defective women!
How about doing some real volunteer work instead of volunteering at church and sitting in a boring church service. Go paint a poor black person's house, teach a poor little kid about reading, make a casserole for your lonely neighbor. So much church "volunteer" work is useless like making sandwiches for coffee hour or being on stupid committees that talk about doing stuff but don't really do anything.
Volunteering should be tethered to the absolute, not just immanentization.
Why not paint poor white person house?
Why the poor person gotta be black?
Gods don't exist that's why
Is that why you are here?
@@charleschenhua he is looking for Jezus
“Gods don’t exist”
Sez u brah
Hey go play in traffic, kid! Let the adults do adult things.
@@inconnu4961 very clever Ernest Hemingway