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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- There's even more gay erasure? Who'd have thought it.
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Ayyyyyyyyyuuu
Look at you getting some badass sponsors lately! I hope you’re world renowned for all you do for trans people in a year or two. Keep up your excellent work.
Hey Jamie! Sappho is pronounced "sap-pho=fo", there is a p in there.
btw I love your videos (did I mispell your name? Sorry if I did)
There where times In history sexual relationships between two woman was not frown up on.
At least in the classes where marriage was not sometimes you did out of love but to gain things for the family. (political marriage's) like becoming alleys as family's. Here the women had to safe herself for marriage. But with sexual interactions between woman the " virgin seal" was not broken. Because that could only happen between a man and woman.
You could go as far to say it was a...
gayming laptop
Achilles was in love with his "best friend" to the point where he requested their ashes be mixed together after they passed away in the war with Troy. Their story is really interesting.
Agreed. How does Jamie not know about this? It’s one of the best stories ever.
Achilles will forever be my favourite, the song of Achilles absolutely broke me at the end.
@@Bear_the_shepherd Sameee. You never recover from the emotional trauma so.... 10/10 recomend.
I found out few days ago, honestly. I'm upset I didn't know about this before. I better get some education, lol
(i apologize for the rant in advance rip) oml YES. one of the reasons i hate the movie Troy so much is cause Achilles gets reduced to just being this proud egoistic self absorbed lil shit, and i mean sure he is all that, but he's also suffering so bloody much (like every character in greek myth and tragedies) and i hate that it's just getting ignored that he thought a damn river and would've destroyed all of Troy on his own if the gods didn't step in, all because Patroclus died. And the fact that he dragged Hector's body around the city 3 times it's just _ wow. Cause in ancient greek that was a rlly rlly horrible thing to do - not granting someone a proper burial and all, but he just did not give a fuck about anything alse but Patroclus. He even wished that all of the other greeks would die so he and Pat could conquer Troy on their own. Also Alexander the great saw himself as a kind of Achilles reincarnation, and he wanted the same realtionship Achilles and Pat had. ok sry im Iliad trash, homersexual, if you will. but in conclusio,the iliad is exactly why you don't ever wear your boyfriends armor^^
Fun fact: "Achillean" is literally the mlm version of "Sapphic" and has also be used to describe transmasc people as "particularly attractive"
Multi level marketing?
@@someone857 mlm as in men loving men not multi level marketing
@@LohStorm Marxism-Leninism-Maoism?
@@isaacevilman7586 Gay Maoists in pyramid schemes
Another MLM version of Sapphic is "Turian" named after Alan Turing
I think the idea that ‘people were more friendly back then; but not in a sexual way’ relies on the fact that people back then didnt TALK about sex in the same way we do now. It doesn’t necessarily mean they didn’t have sex
exactly . pretty sure they had just as much maybe more, it just wasn't talk about.
@@ilovelittlemix4034 Well it was the era in which doctors would masturbate female patients, and call it mental health therapy. So they were definitely hiding sexual assault under guise of medicine.
Or it relies on the fact that we sexualize forms of physical contact so much now that physical intimacy is assumed to be sexual first. I think it cuts both ways.
Yeah, if we go by what the literature directly tell us, then there was barely even any sex sex outside consummation of marriage. So, I guess the magic bird really did bring all those babies.
1800s Dandy: Yes Mr. Alfred spent the week in my home (I had a boy over)
WLW bff: Did he enjoy his stay? (oh my god, details bestie?)
Dandy: I can soundly say his comfort was my main priority (I railed him within an inch of his life)
WLW bff: you are the most gracious of hosts, my dear (I love that for you, hell yeah)
I really appreciate Jamie saying same gender couples instead of same sex couples. Just made me happy.
@Joséf from TX ??? Huh?-
@Joséf from TX I am so confused right now
what?
@@a_reelskitface I’ll answer you first, and hope the two other confused people see this
Since sex and gender are two different things, saying same gender couples would be more respectful to the people who’s gender and sex don’t align. Like if a trans man were in a relationship with a cis man, it would be a same gender relationship, but not a same sex relationship.
Omg I just looked at the reply, I’m sorry- the person you were probably confused about deleted they’re comment xD I thought you were confused about the original comment, sorry
Being aroace, I would love to celebrate platonic closeness, sharing beds and such platonically, etc, but the erasure for everyone else is an oof.
Yeah sometimes I'm just like "oooh but it would be so cool if they WERE friends..."
I feel the same sometimes, but I think we should be familiar enough with erasure to appreciate that that's probably what it is.
Depends on the emotions of the people involved.
Unless they’re making out, that one is just kinda obvious.
I love how Jamie switches from chill gamer dude to highly intelligent professor
these are the only two moods of Jamie
@@shaaba love ur hair :)
Just like Clicky wicky everyone's favorite furry
@@moon_wei He can switch from a memey-funny-dirty-furry-type person to a super chill, really insightful and intelligent guy seamlessly.
No, scratch that, he is both. And he can choose which one is more prominent.
Same with Jamie being a chill gamer dude and a highly intelligent professor.
I find it really creepy that some people have no problem diminishing queer relationships to "just friends who are affectionate with each other" but whenever it's two people of the opposite gender being romantic, people instantly recognize it for what it truly is. It's obvious they don't want to give queer relationships the respect they deserve. That could either be because they don't see them as real relationships or they just hate queer people in general and don't want to see their relationships put on the same level as queer people's relationships.
Oh, it goes further: whenever two people of the opposite sex appear in ancient art just sitting next to each other, everyone _immediately_ assume they are a couple.
And to your last sentence: I think they just hate queer people. But then again, I'm Gen-X and came out in the 1990s after watching almost all of The Straights™ gleefully celebrating the entire generation of gay men before mine dying slowly and horribly. So, my generation of gays always operate under the assumption that all heteros hate us.
It also extends into people forcibly assuming romance on a couple of friends who hsppen to be opposite sex... Literally not believing it could just be a friendship? Speaking from experience...
I think part of it also is just benign ignorance on gay relationships; they'd only see gay couples when they're with them or out in public, where the line between "couple" and "platonic best friends" is only clear if they hold hands or kiss 😆
@@John_Weiss I'm Gen-X and gay as well, and I don't think all straights hate us. Things are getting better, slowly but surely.
@@John_Weiss I’m just a lonely bi person here dealing with straight passing privilege but also society mainly assumes you’re straight until you tell them otherwise cuz heteronormativity
Btdubs I adore you 🥰🥰🥰😘😘
You know the erasure's real when autocorrect changes "aromantic" to "aromatic" T_T
Also loved the whole intro with Shaaba and her Princess Bubblegum hair
Don't feel bad, they think we smell nice!
oh neat, i must smell nice then
@@octobersandwich2455 aromatic aromantic
It’s worse when it is corrected to “a romantic”
@@globalwyrm2334 agreed
For anyone interested: Achilles had a lover called Petrocles, who is portrayed as his "cousin" in Troy. Also, there is so much gay love in ancient Greece and Rome, they were much more relaxed about sexualities. I remember loving the movie Alexander for actually portraying this correctly and rather romantically might I add, but it got a bad rep for it in the States (among other places).
Patroclus*
It should be stated that they weren't so much as relaxed about sexualities, but rather that they had very, very different standards than we do now. Caesar was still a subject of jokes for his sexuality, but it wasn't because he slept with men, but rather because he was a bottom (as a high status man), and similarly, the standards for what someone could and couldn't do while married were very, very different depending on if they were a man or a woman (as in nobody cares compared to death penalty), but with no regard for the gender of their partners (or even less, I don't know of any evidence that women were forbidden from being with other women while married to a man, the hang up, at least for Athens, was largely around the certainty of someone's inheritance, so wlw relationships between married women may not have been an issue like women with a man would be).
Do you know if Alexander might be on any kind of streaming service? Perhaps on dvd?
Unfortunately a lot of the gay relationships in Greece weren't consensual, but rather grown men having sex with boys. Young adolencent boys were glorified and women were worth so little in ancient Greece that is was seen as better to have sex with a boy than a woman. So I would NOT call them "more relaxed" about sexualities, just different. And not always for the better.
@@auroraourania7161 It frightens me that the LGBT+ community wants to claim Caesar as a gay icon, considering he committed genocide in Gaul where he killed several 10th of 1000s innocent women and children, and men who came forward to ask for peace. I know modern society has glorified Caesar as a skilled leader and commander, but if he were alive today we'd compare him more to people like Stalin and Kim Jong Un. Non-democratic dictators who aren't scared of killing tons of innocent people to get to power. I'd prefer the icons like Leonardo Da Vinci and Oscar Wilde. Skilled artists who didn't kill people for a living!
Is it just me or does Shaaba's hair look stunning!!!
Not just you, it looks awesome
It is not just you, I am inspired
Facts!! It is goals -- and I don't even have long hair right now!
It looks really pretty.
Phenomenal ❤️
My sister (AMAB) is struggling with dysphoria on top of auditory and visual hallucinations related to her schizophrenia and currently being treated for an eating disorder. I have been using your videos and the wonderful people in your comment sections to better understand what she's going through.
She says there are voices telling her she's ugly and fat versus herself feeling that way, so she seems to think her schizophrenia is to blame for her dysphoria. I know this is a little different from the usual experience of a transgender person, but if anyone has any advice or insight, please reply.
I don't know how well this would apply to your sister, it's not the same experience but maybe it's a little similar, in the autistic community there are a lot of people who feel their autism strongly relates to their gender identity, but that doesn't make their gender identity any less valid than that of a neurotypical trans person, so i think it might be the same for your sister - whether it's her schizophrenia or not, it doesn't mean her gender identity isn't valid.
You're a really good sibling for wanting to understand her like that. Best of wishes to you and your sister!
Love them you do already clearly, i can see by the way you talk. I have no idea about schizophrenia But just knowing your loved is nice. Depands on your sir come stance but names that are validating are have helped me.
If there dysphoria is gender related then clothes are always good. If there closited then undergarments. For me i struggle-because i’m blind so i would like a guide in what to do, i’m sure this goes for others.
Hope this is a little hel full oh and if it is gender related remember not all things are linked
Hope everything goes well
Like just bc there schizophrenic That hasn’t everything to do with it all. Like people have sayed just bc i’m blind i’m pining negative emotions on my gender which isn’t true.
But like i sayd befor i have no idea about Schizophrenia
I have no experience with schizophrenia so you *really* should consider reaching out to people who have neuropsychological insight to give in this, but I did have to do some selfwork on a mixture of depression, trauma-based androphobia (basically, afraid of men), being trans with my dysphoria manifesting as physical detachment instead of any actual "ew ugh bad" like I hear from most trans guys, and me liking to crossdress which confused the crap out of me because how valid am I if I'm a pan, trans, over-empathic man who doesn't feel bad in a dress once in a while?
Step one: float around the idea of cosplaying and experimenting with presentation. If there's gender euphoria, it'll usually be found there. If she has internet access, tell her to make up a new profile that fits with her gender identity and see if being treated as a woman floats her boat. Gender identity is about what feels GOOD too, not just what feels BAD.
Step two: (This is where the depression part for me might be useful for your sister) Identify any thoughts that aren't her own. Internalized thoughts are what I learned to track down because of depression (the thoughts going "you're fat", "you're lazy", that if you think about it aren't *yours* but things you've heard from others and your brain latched on), and they're vital to identify and counter. Intrusive thoughts from her E.D. might also fall in that category of thoughts to learn to detect, inspect, and discard. (Generally intrusive thoughts go away with that technique of self-introspection, since you learn to tell your brain to stop obsessing over these. Searching up how to manage intrusive thoughts and Jungian shadow theory might help there.)
Step three: It takes time to figure out identity, and hostility will probably make her try to retreat and go back. Make sure that you encourage her and drive home the point that whatever her gender identity, she is still, at her core, the same person, and gender identity is whatever makes her happy. She's allowed to be confused and to revise her gender identity if it turns out she doesn't feel like she fits, sometimes it's a Goldilocks thing where you gotta try everything before you find the "just right" label. (Speaking there as a dude who hid in the NB forest for almost 5 years, because I was unsure due to toxic masculinity until I figured out what "man" and "woman" mean on a non-binary gender spectrum, and I was afraid I'd be rejected for not being manly enough.)
I hope this might help out a bit, and sorry if it's all over the place...
i know that sometimes people with schizophrenia can experience command hallucinations that might tell them to do something or just voices throwing negative stuff at them
from what i heard from people with schizophrenia, even when their condition is treated sometimes voices never go away, it just becomes easier to do reality checks and ignore hallucinations
whatever your sis goes through just show her a lot of empathy and love, she's going through a lot and probably needs to be heard and at least one person who can understand her experiences
it seems a little bit weird that shes being treated for an eating disorder but you havent mentioned treating schizophrenia? mental health issues like this are incredibly difficult topic so id say ask her and her therapist about everything
I would like to point out the reverse, if two different sex siblings spend a lot of time together and look a little different, everyone keeps asking if you're married. It irritated the heck out of my brother and I before he passed.
Ever since I transitioned, this happens with my twin sister and me!
My older sister and her boyfriend used to get asked if I was their kid.
Bonus points if those same people then try to claim that they can tell you’re siblings because you “look so much alike” as if they didn’t just ask/assume we were married. My brother and I are best friends and look nothing alike (there are a few facial features but he’s olive skinned, dark hair, & dark eyes and I’m fair skinned, light haired, light eyes and freckled.)
"Best friends" plan to live together. My little brain asks "asexual?" It would make sense. They have a loving relationship and can have everything they want but it's platonic, which they would also want. It would make sense. Of course it's only my thought, and whatever it is I hope they're happy together.
I heartily second your little brain's question, sounds to me like a pretty obvious assumption and people forget that not EVERYONE's allosexual.
Yeah but Asexual means no sexual attraction, I think the word your looking for is Aromantic.
@@coreyaiou8 well it could be either. Or both.
@@barrylangille3523 yeah
@@coreyaiou8 hey, asexual here, and even though I do feel romantic attraction I would still prefer a qpr (what op described) over a romantic relationship. I obviously don't stand for all aces but even an asexual alloromantic may prefer a qpr for other reasons. Okay thanks bye :)
on discord, i use the name gracie - a name that is in a definite feminine form - and i have a friend who i call my 'wifey'. we are both (mostly) straight women, and there's nothing romantic between us at all, but i was talking to someone and this is how the conversations went:
"i'm going on a date with my wifey today" (we were going to the library to study for a test we both had)
"oh... i thought you were a girl."
very taken aback "i am?"
he then asked if i was gay and i explained how it was just platonic and not a romantic date and so on, but i still found it funny that he jumped to the conclusion of someone named 'gracie' being male before me being possibly gay... heteronormativity strikes again
We should start doing hetero erasure. Referring to married hetero couples as roommates and best friends, and basically stripping any/all sexual or romantic context from any depiction of hetero couples. That would be fun.
Yes, that would be very fun.
*payback yes*
I sort of do this already at work? I refer to shopping companions as friends most of the time. I don't think The Straights notice on that small a scale though.
it would honestly be ✨beautiful✨
Jamie and shaba, very close *roommates*
@@r.7530 "dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to witness the union of these two roommates..."
One of the more well-known examples of gay erasure in anime was the Dub of Sailor Moon where they changed the lesbian couple into incestuous cousins. The Western World, ok with incest, as long as we don't show kids "the Gay™"
@Question the Satirist Uranus and Neptune were a lesbian couple in the original Japanese anime of Sailor Moon. When it was dubbed for the US audience they changed them to "cousins" but the lesbian subtext remained.
@@BarronessM at least in Sailor Moon Crystal they dropped the cousins thing and we got nonbinary-spec Uranus
Unfortunately they also dropped the gay relationship between those two gem guys that I forget the name of (the bad guys in the first season)
@@genesisofthebetween You're thinking Zoicite. In the original Anime he was gay and in a relationship with Kunzite. The original North American version turned him into a woman to remove the homosexual aspect.
There'd a 1981 manga call stop hibari about a trans girl, it did not age well as the father misgenders her but she doesn't care as she wears want she wants, it's a good read and the art style is good
7:50 - Not sure about the "love letters", but the rest is definitely true; in many periods of history, including early Victorian period, platonic kisses were much more a thing than they are now, and sharing a bed with someone of the same gender without any assumption of sex was really common as well (it gets cold without central heating!). It was NOT considered normal for people of opposite sexes to do that; that WAS considered automatically sexual.
Personally, I think the tell is how many of these things occur together, for the same person. Like, if they are kissing AND writing letters calling each other "darling" AND sharing a bed AND never married anyone else...balance of probability is that they weren't straight!
Edit: What I mean is "that's where insisting they WERE straight gets really dumb." I don't think we should be insisting that any two people MUST have been in a romantic relationship (straight, gay, whatever) based on one interaction that was considered a "normal friend thing" in their culture. BUT we should consider it a possibility if that interaction could also be a romantic thing...which is what the original poster did. Am I going to ship those Victorian ladies? Absolutely. Do I feel comfortable insisting that they were lesbians based on that photo? No. For one thing, asexuals and bisexuals existed back then too...
It got harder for same-sex couples in the later Victorian period (Oscar Wilde trial timeperiod) and forward where it wasn't OK to be in a same-sex relationship BUT ALSO the things that had been seen as "that's OK, it's probably a friend thing" were starting to be seen as suspect.
That's one of the problems with people having to keep it quiet, people become so desperate for representation that they take it wherever it can plausibly be assumed.
Thanks for not forgetting ace people.
Aro people are also in this category of usually left out when discussing historical relationships
@@patriciavcardoso1344 Yep. Sometimes historical roommates really were roommates.
I always found history fascinating and ever since I figured out I was trans I found it even more so finding out about lgbt history though I am a bit mad I never got taught some of this stuff in school
same here, queer ppl have existed forever n it's rly cool to learn abt
@@stevie8271 Exactly
i think in the us it’s literally illegal for them to teach gay history-
i read that somewhere and don’t remember fact checking it though so don’t quote me on that
@@fauxhuman0 oh ye theres a lot of anti-queer legislation being passed or at least being drafted in the US rn. trans bathroom bills, womens sports bills, etc. im p sure anti-queer history bills have passed as well, or at least exist
@@stevie8271 no they didn't lmao
10:05 Is anyone gonna talk about how Jammi read “smh” as “so much hate” and not “shaking my head”?
Came down to the comments specifically to see if anybody else had noticed.
Thank you! I was astounded that no one was talking about it.
Smh
Yeah, is that another phrase that it's used as an abbreviation for?
I sort of thought it was "so much hate". I've never been positive what it stood for, though, and this comment chain actually clears up why.
hearing "hey spuds!" always cheers me up
6:35 - Kudos to that professor! Also, though...we have hardly any records of Sappho other than (some of) her poems. Considering these are enough for her to have given us two different terms for WLW ("Sapphic" and "Lesbian"), it is really weird how much some people will tie themselves in knots to not only explain away her but also other poets.
If you haven't, I HIGHLY recommend reading Shakespeare's sonnets in order, because it is such a bisexual soap opera. The first 120 are written to a man, the rest to a woman, and several of them seem to refer to the poet being upset about them cheating on him with each other. But even in the book forewords that point this out you'll get these "well, it was probably just platonic admiration." And, uh, look...Elizabethan bros might have kissed each other or shared a bed when traveling, but they did not typically write 120 frickin sonnets going: "I must immortalize you with my words so that future generations may know of your hotness, and I lay awake thinking about you at night, and your breath smells like violets, and how dare you talk to that other poet, and gosh I really wish you'd been born a woman so we could be together...and have I mentioned how hot you are?"
Fun fact: the name of Sappho's husband (from the one 10th century record that details it), Kerkylos of Andros, roughly translates to, "Dick (not the shortened form of Richard if you catch my drift) of man."
Needless to say, most Historians believe this to have initially been a dirty joke recorded by a scholar seemingly unaware of its meaning in its original Greek context.
Where could I get that book? I've tried to read Shakespeare before but this sounds way more interesting than Romeo and Juliet, which I straight up didn't understand at some parts. And speaking of, it's been debated whether or not it was actually a love story or a parody of love. He might have been laughing at the idea of a straight relationship...or maybe he was lamenting his feelings about a man he couldn't have through writing.
Really? Wow, that sounds really cool.
I decided to google if Ian McKellen was even married or not and I'm glad to announce the first question that popped up was "Who is Ian McKellen's husband?"
The answer appears to be no.
Maybe someday he’ll meet his prince. Until then, we all stan Ian McKellen.
It's Patrick Stewart. Change my mind!
@@tinnagigja3723 I think Ian loves Patrick romantically but Patrick loves Ian more like a brother. Their strong friendship is based on being able to appreciate and respect each other's feelings while not necessarily sharing them in the same way.
(This is a response to several other replies on this comment) In 2013, Ian officiated Patrick's marriage to jazz musician Sunny Ozell (a woman, they are together to this day). I've never seen anything to seriously suggest Ian has ever had romantic feelings for Patrick (or vice versa), with any public mention of them as a couple being a joke they're both in on. Sometimes friends are just friends, and we should leave them be. I do hope Ian finds his Prince Charming someday!
About the two Victorian women; I remember when I first read Dracula I noticed that Mina and Lucy, platonic female best friends, often wrote about sleeping in the same bed and sharing baths together. I noticed how these were seen as innocent friendliness back then but would have a sexual connotation today. The writing between them laid it on thick how much they meant to each other too.
This is funny to me now since me and my best friend constantly joke about how we appear like we're a couple and sometimes get mistaken for one, we share beds and bath in front of each other, hold hands and tell each other how much we love each other. We're both bi girls and the connotations don't bother us at all, we find it entertaining that we're perceived in that way.
I love how that one person says how even if those people were hugging, kissing, sleeping in the same bed, etc, that doesn't necessarily mean they had sex so it's not automatically gay. But what they're describing is still a gay relationship, just a purely romantic one. You can hug & kiss someone & be very intimate with them without sex but that's still not a platonic relationship
I think that is honestly just the erasure of asexuality in history. And the heteronormativity as well. Since a lot of straight people would have just assumed romance was the same as sex.
I just wrote something similar lol.
Both that and the 2 friends who chose to live together seems 100% possible, coming from an asexual, that they can work. I see no reason why you couldn't have 2 or more people working together to raise a kid.
You really don't need sexual or romantic attraction to raise anything else, so why a kid? You just need a good healthy relationship whether it's family or friends. I babysat for other people so how much of that was romantic or sexual? None of it lol.
But that's just an asexuals thought process XD
“I’m looking forward to being able to say wife.” 🥰
I have an idea for a book about two queer teenage girls who fall in love with each other, but they have to hide it because they live in a homophobic religious community.
And THAT LESBIAN FLAG CARD . . . I could see one of them giving it to the other so their families wouldn't suspect (because it says "thanks for being an amazing friend").
Also, as someone who is a lesbian and grew up in a homophobic religious cult, I know first hand that no one would ever see a card like this and suspect a thing. The only education I ever received about queer flags was the rainbow flag, that's it. This card is literally PERFECT for the story, oh my God.
That sounds really interesting...
Do it
Is it OK if I take inspiration/use this idea (with credit of course)
@@toxiwashere sure! I doubt your story would be too similar to mine, even if our premises are similar. Absolutely, go for it!
8:02 to these people, the fact that siblings kissing each other makes more sense than gay people existing is hilarious and sad
Deeply appreciate that he was respectful of affectionate friendships while discussing the topic of gay erasure. I tend to see people go one way or the other, and this was so beautifully nuanced and respectful of all forms of love. Jaime’s such a sweetie.
The Iliad, in fact, is not the story of the Siege of Troy. The Iliad starts when the war is already ongoing, and ends with the death of Hector, before the fall of Troy. The illiad makes it very clear what it is: it is the story of Achilles' rage. And the main event in that story is the death of Patroclus due to Achilles' rage.
That AD spot was so hardcore! x’D
“On a plane!” Ahaha!
Wait Jammi if you’re a trans man does that mean you gained the ability to poo, fart, and burp? Or do you gain the ability with bottom surgery?
I'm transfem, I have not released gas in the last 2 years confirmed
Actually that’s how you tell someone is trans. I’m AMAB but haven’t pooped, farted, or burped since birth. That was how I knew.
@Dapper MrJack jesus christ
Yeah because women does not have bowel movement. That's a scientific fact.
@@UmbraKrameri I can't tell if you didn't get the satire or if you're playing along. If the latter is true please feel free to woooosh me
okay, I don't know when Shaaba dyed her hair pink but it looks great
Jamie: “...And that’s all the gay erasure”
Me: *so relieved, happy noises*
Jamie: "...for today 😔"
Me: Oh. Right 🥺
Achilles was homoromantic but bisexual (like most men of his age actually). His history with Briseis in Troy is very straightwashed, but he definitely did throw a huge tantrum when she was taken away from him; at the same time he was definitely in love with Patroclus.
I don't think Ancient Greek sexuality and cultural codes match that well with ours, and that's ok.🤷♀️
he was indeed very angry when she was taken away from him - and i think (if i understood correctly) that it is not because he likes/loves her as a partner, but because it was an offense and he values his glory more than almost everything - Patroclus being the exception, hence his reaction? so it underlines the unique connection they share
anyway
(and i find funny the fact that Achilles and Patroclus' relationship is still a topic today - i mean Socrates debated about that and the status of their relation is still unclear)
@@nouspartimes No no, I definitely agree with it, but I think thinking of any ancient Greek relationships in modern terms is a bit misleading, and ignores the most fascinating aspects of their culture and human sexuality. Achilles was in love with Patroclus and wanted Briseis as his concubine - that's more or less what men did at the time. They even thought men who were only attracted to women were "less manly". I think it says a lot about both cultural attitudes around sexuality and how many more people would explore different aspects of their sexuality if cultural restraints are removed.
shabba is absolutely rocking the pink hair
yeah, Achilles was straight, he and Patroclus were best buddies, to the point where the only thing that could possibly make him do anything in the war was Patroclus's death and he even requested for their ashes to be mixed after the war so that even in death, they'll always be together. yeah, very straight.
I heard somewhere that missing the ashes of husband and wife was a common funerary practice in Ancient Greece. I haven't verified that, however.
Got me in the first half, not gonna lie.
I can't believe Jamie didn't acknowledge the "plutonic" relationship in any way shape or form. I thought that accidental radioactive typo was the most hilarious part of that comment
10:39 Actually Jamie, the blond is a guy, and he's shooing away the girls in this scene. Fsr they changed the subs to make it sound like he has a female love interest, but he doesn't. It's even joked in the fandom that he is aro or ace bc he gives off those vibes and never shows any interest in anyone, romantically.
So yeah, this is more straight washing if anything
step one: read title
step two: get really exsided the jammi posted a new video
step three: watch video and feel better about yourself ❤
That "couple of besties" comment on Carol was most certainly a reference to that meme that goes something like "we look so much like a couple in this picture" "a couple of besties"
I'm 99% sure it wasn't made in bad faith
The Netflix resub of Neon Genesis Evangelion is a big example of translators removing/changing dialogue between same gender characters (in this case Shinji and Kawou) that eludes to their gay subtext together. It's not all that uncommon in my experience that the English (American) translation of Japanese media will purposely remove/change elements to be no homo as possible when in regard to main characters especially.
Auto CC texted gay erasure as
"gay eurasia"
that sounds much nicer.
PFFFFT-
That's amazing. Gay Eurasia is ten thousand times better than gay erasure.
I think the whole "sleeping in the same bed was normal" thing hilarious. Specifically because of Abraham Lincoln's Wikipedia.
Historians try SO HARD to say he was straight! There all "It was completely normal for two men to share a bed back then." and then later on say "back then it was normal for married couples to live in different bedrooms away from one another!"
So you mean to tell me Lincoln shared a bed with over twelve men in his lifetime, and didn't even share the same room with his wife? And he's straight?
3:18
I feel like they did that on purpose, like it's supposed to be one of those "just gals being pals" joke
7:50 it was more that they didn’t think lesbian relationships were valid as actual relationships. Or girls were encouraged towards them sometimes as ‘practice’ for husbands when they were teens. Plus they were a bit more expressive but not enough to erase the gay
Someday I hope to marry my best friend!
...but you'd better still call us "wives", not just "best friends"
SHAABA'S HAIR IS STUNNING!!
I was not mentally prepared for this ad to be so intense
4:46 - Other people have already pointed out how Achilles was most definetely not straight, so I'm just here to point out there's a book all about this (apart from, you know, the actual Illiad), called "The Song Of Achilles". It's really good, but also inevitably sad since we all know how that's gonna turn out in the end. I strongly recommend it
“Fiancée” was a weird time bc of gay erasure! Before being engaged & after getting married, it was clear any time I mentioned my partner that she is a woman (girlfriend/wife). But when we were engaged, everyone went right back to assuming I was straight whenever I said “fiancée” (they couldn’t see/probably wouldn’t know the difference anyway that there was an extra e to make it feminine 😂). Very frustrating to lose my usual “I’m just going to drop the word girlfriend into this conversation with a random stranger and see what happens” litmus test lol
Achilles’s story is actually a really fascinating one! He had a close relationship with Patroclus, and they were depicted as lovers but apparently that’s still “up for debate” :/
When Achilles refused to fight Patroclus dawned his armor and went to battle where he was killed and Achilles was not cool with that to say the least.
A bonus fun fact: Achillean is a queer label that is the opposite of sapphic ( it’s like mlm nblm)
There’s a flag for it too!
Highly recommend Song of Achilles by Madeline Miller if you are interested in the story with the gay front and center.
The title had me so worried. Glad to know there are different Sapphos out there. In the furry community there is one who is...disgusting/problematic. To put it nicely.
Y e a h, I mean most of the community is steamrolling her but she won't leave.
@@toxiwashere wait, who is "she"??
sorry i'm not in the furry community nor interact with people so i don't know what is going on-
Yeah, in contexts such as this one "Sappho" refers to the Greek poet Sappho of Lesbos. Well known as an early LGBTQ historical figure and the origin of the words "lesbian" and "sapphic"
@@OhWellHereGoesMyLife someone named hypnotist Sappho "came out" as a zoophile (someone attracted to animals) and compared it to being part of the lgbt+ community, and THEN went and made a zoophile donation page, the community doesn't like her but she won't go.
@@fluffystuff500 Yeye, Greek Sappho good, Hypnotist Sappho bad.
Wow, they really are great friends.
We need to start making the “idk they look like siblings but maybe their partners” on old photos of straight couples now
I had my first proper experience of this the other day...
My fiancée and I were buying lounge furniture and a bed the other day and the lady helping us asked if we were "sisters or just friends/flatmates"... we corrected her and she was quite apologetic, it was quite funny
Oh gosh this reminds me of how at camp, the gift shop sold "friendship bracelets",,,,,, and one of them had the lesbian flag colours. There was NO WAY that the designers did not know what it looked like.
Anyways, I bought the bracelet for my girlfriend.
That's absolutely amazing.
I think my favor example of subtitles being changed is in the owl house, instead of “do you want to go out with me?” In Taiwan it was “do you want to dress up and travel together?” Which arguably sounds even more gay.
10:30
and the worst part of it is like, characters in that anime is extremely lgbtq+ coded, so changing the subtitles to make it "more straight" is just... feels so wrong
Do you know the name of that anime?
@@morningshine6062 it's "jojo's bizarre adventure"!
in the video it's part 5, which is my favorite, highly recommend, hehe~
😂😂 okay thanks for telling me
@@morningshine6062 no prob x)
6:15 - the two girls in the pic hugging in a parking garage kinda look like this pair i saw on tiktok asserting they were platonic life partners who were thinking of adopting. If that IS the same pair, then the person who picked the wedding dress pic was totally not thinking things thru, and this is the best-case interpretation lol
This picture of the two women "friend/sisters"... Boston Marriage comes to mind💕💕
It was very "common" and "normal" in the 1800s to have a very intimate relationship with your "friend", as marriage was often more of a business contract
Omg how awesome was that ROG sponsorship?! You got a high-end laptop and a flying lesson! That's so cool dude! I'm so happy you're at the point where brands will reach out and do cool things like that for you! You're awesome and you deserve it! 🌈💖
Off topic but I finally have A loving and supportive gf, and im so happy for them being so understanding(they use they/she and have said before that they are ok with me calling her my girlfriend) and loving
Its so amazing and I absolutely love them, so much- she's my whole world and they make my day every single time I get to talk to them-
both of us have ADHD so we very understand each others issues and I love that they are so supportive and kind and loving and I can never get enough of them- my goodness- I love them till the end of the earth
Worst time someone asked if my husband and I were brothers: When we went to the county clerk's office to apply for our marriage license. One of the people working behind the counter tried to start a conversation with us by asking if we were brothers. When we answered that we were not, the poor clueless woman pressed on, asking: "But you are related, right?" Us: "No, not at all." Saving grace: She didn't ask why we were there, and we were served by a different clerk. Still very awkward.
Oh god. Oh god no.
I feel sorry for you.
*c o u s i n s*
*c l o v e r w a y*
I’m wondering how clueless clerk would have reacted if you answered “not yet, but we’re hoping someone here can help us change that”
eeeeeee!!
The “thanks for being a friend” card with the flag in the lesbian pride colours, could be a perfect discreet romantic card for a girlfriend whose living with her family and whose also not out to her family yet. Especially if the family doesn’t know about LGBTQIA+ related stuff like the lesbian pride colours. :3 :)
(As long as the person/girlfriend giving the card makes sure that the person/girlfriend receiving the card understands it’s a “discreet romantic card”, “so you don’t have to worry about your family.”. )
Also I’m bi and pan, and polyamorous, it’s Me, My Wife And Our Husband. And I Love Them Both So FUCKING MUCH!!!!!!!!!!! XD XD XD
^,..,^\m/)0(
I meant rainbow in the lesbian pride colours….!!! Dx oops!! I’m sorry!!! Dx
Soooo...MLK says gay rights? Love him even more.
Hi Jaimie! I just wanted to say I've been watching your videos for seven years now and you made a huge impact in my life in helping me come out and accept myself as a trans man. I love your content and look forward to every video. Something I'd love to see you do is a podcast on LGBT+ or psychology issues, I think you'd be great at that and are more than qualified. I listen to Roly's 'Gag of the Millenial' and I always think it'd be awesome if you had a podcast like that too. Much love!
I always love watching your videos, your explainations and commentary make it so much easier to understand the LGBTQ community better. This in turn helps me to have better conversations with my daughter who is still trying to figure out her sexuality. So thank you from the bottom of my heart for being the amazing, beautiful bean that you are. Merry Christmas to you and Shaaba xxxxx
Mm gay erasure, my favourite flavour of homophobia /j
I was researching the other day about a German poet and author for my German class and I went through her letter collection and despite being happily married and having multiple daughters I got the impression she was in a somewhat intimate relationship with another women because there were SOOO many letters to her and she called her „Herzensmädchen“ , „Herzlein“ , „Lieblein“ and „ heissgeliebt“ she ended the letters with „ Ich küsse dich innigst“ and if that doesn’t scream sapphic love affair I don’t know what does
As a German the others could be platonic but I don't thing heißgeliebt is platonic
@@someperson8188 I agree „Mein heißgeliebtes, allersüßestes Lieslein, Lieblein, Herzlein!“ does for sure not sound straight and they wrote each other for about 25 years…
Can you translate please?
@@fluffystuff500 "Herzensmädchen", "Herzlein" and "Lieblein" are old variations of pet names like "sweety", "darling" etc.
"heißgeliebt" means something like "dearly beloved", however "heiß" literally means "hot" and can be used in German the same way as in English, including calling someone "hot". So it might be read as "hotly beloved", too.
"ich küsse dich innigst" means "I'm kissing you dearly/deeply"
"mein heißgeliebtes, allersüßestes Lieslein, Lieblein, Herzlein" means "my dearly beloved, sweetest Lieslein, darling, sweety"
@@joschisaurus182 thank you
This is the only add I have ever sat through and genuinely enjoyed 😂
I am transgender, and I have a question.
what age do you have to be to use testosterone safely?
15 or 16 is when it’s legal, so it should be around then
16 or 17 I think, but with parents permission.
Usually when cis boys start puberty (the earliest I've heard someone got T was 14 y. o.), but depending on where you are it might be really hard to get it. You also usually need a permission of at least 1 parent (sometimes even both) to start.
@Draculas Kitty are you trying to be transphobic while hiding it behind acting as if you are looking out for people?
@Draculas Kitty they asked what age is safest, not about the things that some people don’t support.
10:05 Wild that you pronounce “smh” as “so much hate”!
4:36 Achilles was famously in a relationship with his partner, Patroclus.
When he was murdered, Achilles then went on a rampage, killing a large portion of the Trojan army. As revenge, he kills the Trojan prince and drags his body around the battlefield on the back of his chariot.
This rampage was the incident that got him killed, as he was grieving for his lover's death so much that he was blinded, and shot.
What an amazing sponsorship experience ♡
That article about the two best friends really is about two best friends if I recall correctly, they’re in a platonic life partnership (a great option for those on the ace spectrum tbh)
Really hoping there's a reference to "dressing up and travelling together" (rlly hoping someone knows what I'm talking about)
I was really hoping for this!
oh no they tried to make jojo more straight? honey thats a lost battle before it's even started
My ex wasn't even the same ethnicity as me, let alone look similar either, and people would assume he was my brother.
Ooo! I love Shaaba's hair!! So pink! So pretty!
I didn't even skip the paid ad part of the video because it's so interesting to watch!! I legit thought you were gonna drop the laptop to show how sturdy it is fjskhwjfkd 😭😂
I'm assuming that the card by the "friend" was a card given from one lesbian to their partner as a joke on erasure, but I might be wrong
That'd probably be it.
10:04 jamie that stands for shaking my head not so much hate (in this scenario anyway)
9:25
Example that popped in my head as Jamie was saying this: Most people just assume the sailor and the nurse in that famous V-J Day pic were a couple, but in reality, they didn’t even know each other.
Clicked on this video, heard your intro, actually said "YEAH!" out loud. I love your videos! They're amazing! I love being baffled, befuddled, puzzled, amused, and sometimes downright shocked at how far some people go to try to be anti-LGBTQIA+ (and have them missing the point which is even more hilarious).
Hi Shaaba! I love your "collabs" with Jammie hehe! 😁😉 WOW! What an ad!!! I can't believe you did all that!!😲😲😲😲😲
3:35 I loved his show "Vicious" ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
4:00 I'm surprised you didn't mention anything about the search having a confused dinosaur above the search result... Was it a straight dinosaur who didn't know we exist? 🤔❓
9:50 We all can't wait till you can say wife 🥰 You've both had a heck of a journey trying to get married, lets hope next time's the charm!
10:00 I looked up "SMH" on "the internets" and it can mean "so much hate" or "shaking my head" how can we tell the difference? Just like "ATM"... are they at the cash dispensing machine, or are they saying "at the moment?" I'm so confused when these things don't have context! 🤯 Doesn't help that I was born when rotary phones existed lol 🤦♂️🤫
Achilles was a gay man, forever in love with Patroclus. The two where inseparable and after Patroclus is killed he literally goes to war to get revenge for him. Theirs a lot of things that explore their dynamic like the game like Hades and the song Achilles Come Down which is sung by Patroclus and what some people think is Apollo as the negative voice.
I believe mixing ashes in the same urn was something that was usually done with Ancient Greek husband-and-wife. If this is true, then Achilles asking for the same to be done with him and Patroclus would've said, loud and clear to the Ancient Greek audiences, that they were definitely a couple.
Now I am eager to write the most homoerotic smut and framing it like these examples do.
“Aron and Jeff were good friends, so good in fact that Aron’s knees quivered at the thought of Jeff holding him.”
"Ian McKellen is one of the most well known gay actors"Jim Parsons "am I a joke to you"
Now I really would have just been all about a video of you guys flying. That's badass!
This subreddit is hilarious
Hi spuds
Let’s start a hi spuds chain
HI SPUDS 🥔
@@shaaba HI SPUDS!!!
Hi spuds
Hi spuds
How has it taken me this long to realise Jamie is British
Because of the Spongebob meme in the thumbnail, at first my brain read “Where is Gary?”😂
I love Shaaba's pink hair!❤
Excellent sponsorship slot.
The one in regards to Bayard Rustin made me incredibly upset, having not once learned about him in schools. I went online and probably read 7-9 articles and a few videos, just because he deserved, and still deserves so much recognition.
This is 10000000% the single coolest ad I have ever seen in my entire life, across any medium. TV, online streaming, CZcams... anywhere. Heck.