Flat Top Strings on a Flat Wound Guitar (And Vice Versa)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Recent bouts of pondering coupled with conversations with friends led to a very real and pressing need to explore the tonal implications of flatwound strings on a flat top guitar.
Because why not?
Obviously a set of flats isn't going to turn a Kostal MD into a vintage L5. Probably... But it might at least be fun. Also there may be some new sounds and textures to explore and that's always a good thing!
There's only one way to find out of course and that's exactly what I did!
All the best
Michael Watts
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I hope you enjoy this experiment - I certainly did! Feel free to time stamp your comments if there's a bit you find interesting!
I love flatwound strings on an acoustic guitar. I feel like I can hear more of the guitar and less metallic "zing", finger squeak and overtones produced by round wound strings. I think Thomastik flats are better acoustically than Chromes.
Thanks for watching! I’m back on my favourite elixirs on this guitar but I’ll try some Tomastiks on my Gretsch
@@MichaelWatts Why not try them on this Guitar too
Chromes are complete garbage, in my personal opinion.
Really, I think it's about time we stop thinking of high end and sustain as just arbitrarily 'correct' components of a good tone. Listen to McCartney's Yesterday - VERY little sustain or high end - it's a very dry, very woody, thumpy tone but for the last 40 years we've been on this endless, nonsensical crusade for more sustain and high end, and it makes absolutely zero sense to me. Sure, the option should always be there, but we really do think of sustain and high end as 'correct' and anything less as novelty or vintage kitsch.
@@allrequiredfields Thomastik Jazz swing strings would work on Acoustic Guitars too
@benmiller03 I'm more of a Musician
Flat wound Strings sound amazing on a Flattop Guitar
Wow that was cool, what I noticed
that flatwound strings don't
make the acoustic guitar
ring so much and elimates
the twang for a deep
warmer jazzy tone
much much nicer
The finger noise is eliminated with Flatwound Strings so they're great for recording
I tried this once, plays surf guitar well.
Oh wow, I never considered that!
@@MichaelWatts Used flats on this, czcams.com/video/UxzebzlhwQM/video.html
Been wanting to try these. You've convinced me. Been using nylon because of tinnitus. Bronze too bright. Loved the Bossa Nonesense and 5 a.m. Tango. Between Streets (very Earl Klugh) DADGAD -Love your style. Thank you!
Great to hear!
Thanks. There are plenty of guitar experimenters out there but few of them demo fingerstyle well and I am definitely one who would never pick up a plectrum unless my fingers are bleeding😅
We've got an acoustic album coming up and this will def be considered as would love to cut some bite off my Taylor since it won't be fighting so hard to cut through a stripped back mix like we will have on this one.
Thanks bro
My pleasure! Glad to help!
Enjoyed this video enough to put a set of D'Addario flatwound light gauge on my Seagull Artist Mosaic. I'm a 100% fingerpicker. The strings feel good, there is no squeek shifting my fingers up and down the fretboard is smoother and easier. There is something very pure and clean about the tone, especially when I plug in. At the same time, I am producing a colder, less varied tone on all the strings. The guitar has less character. It's a trade off.
A necessary video. Thank you.
Great sound! Players with character in their sound could benefit strings like these. I use Ernie Ball regular electric strings on some low cost acoustics, and they sound much better than with bronze strings. Bonus is that they work with electric pickups, too!
Thanks for listening! I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Good to know and I'll have to give them a shot next time that I restring my Epiphone.
I am lucky/obsessed enough to have 11 instruments to play- any given day. A vast majority are acoustic at this point. Having mentioned that, I have a high tuned guitar that is absolutely beautiful when strung with x light ribbon wound strings. My acoustic archtop is also gorgeous to hear and play with a flat wound set. Point being- they are worth experimenting with. Flat wound strings have a different 'rebound' than round wounds, and this alone is a game changer!
Awesome stuff Chas! Thanks for watching!
Flatwounds are an accessibility thing for me, it's them or just not playing. Really glad I like the sound of them.
Very cool!
Appreciate how specific you are with demo descriptions. Not only that, but flatwounds sound like... well, an acoustic guitar. More of the sound I expect/hear in my head
That was very interesting to hear, thank you! I recently put flatwounds on my Tele thinline and love the sound, especially on neck pickup. You don't get any string squeak when sliding along the fretboard. I did wonder about what they would sound like on an acoustic - and now I know. They sound better on DADGAD pieces but lack the aggressive, percussive quality of roundwounds that you need perhaps when strumming or picking in standard tuning, I think. Of course it's a matter of personal taste, but the evenness/neutrality/purity of tone and lack of sizzle make for a very seductive sound. [From a patchouli-infused 60's songwriter - ha-ha]
Thank you so much for listening! it's true, there's less string squeak but there was enough extra friction on the fingertip to throw me a couple of times. It's a minor adjustment but noticeable. I think I may actually prefer them for standard tuning rather than DADGAD - they only do one sound but it's an interesting one! A real Les Cousins vibe at times.
Aren't they great on Teles? I put them on my 1967 Tele and it's a perfect combination, as Teles of course tend to have a bit shrill top end. Looking forward to hearing them really broken-in, as it will add some nice low-mid attack and definition. The flats themselves have already helped with individual note clarity, now without all the harsh top end fighting itself.
Great playing
Great playing MW!
I put a trapeze and these strings on my Gretsch Jim Dandy which also has a Detoluxe pickup. It sounds fantastic unplugged and plugged. Easy on the fingers.
This is an excellent channel Michael and that goes beyond the fantastic music. Really great energy and themes. I've no doubt there is a much wider audience soon to come!
Thank you Shane! Much appreciated
They're great for recording as they eliminate the finger squeak, & they'll save the frets from scratches.
I really enjoy D'addario Flat Tops on my parlor and 000. My fingers are ROUGH from my day job, so it really helps with the squeak. I prefer the mellow sound, as well, having started with nylon guitars.
That's very cool! Thank you so much for watching and sharing your experience!
I love that sound thanks for sharing
Thank you!
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏❤️❤️❤️❤️wonderful. Thank you
Thank you Donald!
I'm sold. The very next set on my acoustic will be flat wound.
Recently discovered D'Addario nickel/bronze. Enjoyed the Derek Gripper Paris interview. Very intrigued with his (nylon string) sound.
Thank you Paul! Derek has a huge sound, very inspiring
I’ve just put some on my (not very good) acoustic.
They’re ok, but don’t respond in the way one expects a guitar string to react. Pull-offs, hammer- ons, legato, vibrato etc, don’t quite come off as they should.
They do give a kind of pleasant, generalised sound and do feel smoother, if stiffer. I now remember that I tried the same thing many moons ago…
Both guitar and player in this video are a bit superior, but I still have reservations.
An interesting experiment, but I’ll be returning to round-wounds before very long.
Daddario Flatwound Strings have colored Ball Ends which is helpful. They also make XT coated strings.
That’s very true!
@@MichaelWatts The XT Coated strings will sound amazing and power pins will help with restringing.
I just got a Godin 5th Avenue archtop acoustic, 2nd hand with a set of phosphor bronze acoustic strings. It sounds kinda like a flat top.
I love your musicianship and found the video by accident. However, the information is part of what I've been looking for, as I'm also a finger style player and have been struggling a bit with string selection for my new Harley Benton Manhatten standard. Tried .009 half rounds to kill the squeaks, but lost too much treble (playing both acoustic and amped), so I just ordered D'Addario .010 half rounds. After watching your video, I have a hunch I'll end up with either .011 or .012 flat wounds which I'm used to, and will try all of them on my acoustic Dreadnaught. Thanks so much for the information. You have my subscription and I saved the video in both my personal "Educational" playlist and my Jazz playlist. Thanks again!!
Thank you very much for watching Jon, I'm glad you found my channel and I hope you'll stay!
Great playing, interesting about the strings.
Thank you for watching Ken!
I, too, was looking to get that jazz tone of an archtop electric by using flat wounds on my acoustic. It just didn't work -- mainly because it's really not so much the strings as it is the very different build between a flat top and an electric archtop. However, I do love the sound of flat wounds on one of my acoustics now that I've stopped expecting Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell, et.al. to magically appear! Thanks for the Video.
Thanks for watching, you’re very welcome! I’ve taken the flats off now but I really did enjoy them for a bit. It’s a weird texture but fun!
Because the Finger Squeak is gone with those Flatwound Strings, maybe you should keep your Acoustic Guitars Strung w/ Flatwounds (Thomastik Jazz Swing 10s) cause they'll be great for recording, & they'll also save the frets from scratches.
Excellent, I love the sort of ‘mellow but not muffled ‘ guitar sound and this may be the way to go 🤔 Great idea. (Patchouli infused 60s 😂😂😂😂)
Thank you for listening Geoff! It’s a nice friendly sort of sound. Nothing to spiky or dramatic.
Interesting Michael, but I cannot tell if I love what I'm hearing because of your playing or because of the strings.
Or the guitar for that matter! BTW, you pretty much sold me on Elixirs. I was a huge skeptic but I'm now convinced they are the best strings ever at least on one of my guitars.
That 'nonsense' sounds so good
Ha ha thank you!
Awesome video (and video title).
Thank you Dan!
I have dedicated two of my guitars to flat tops I love the tone.
There is an interesting compromise commercially available- ' ground- wound', which are round wound strings with a flattened side (external). I played a set, and found them comfortable. Don't know who made the set that I played, but they seemed to convey a round wound 'message' rather well- while being a smooth feel. Interesting.
Very true. I know D’Addario used to do a set
Hallo Michael. I am so inspired from the way you play. I am playing guitar as well, but always useing my nails and listening to your tunes I am planing to change this. You have your own sound, which is not only because of the guitar you play, but of your nailless stile. The bases are so rich and the mids are so warm and almost no highs. With those strings this effect becomes even more strong, more bassy. Best regards Kosta
Thank you Kosta!
Obviously flatwounds aren’t for every day but I kind of liked the sound. Just as a fuzzy contrast to the normal colours this guitar is capable of! Thanks for watching!
@@MichaelWatts The position of your right hand sometimes look like you play a lute, which gives additional warmness to the sound I think. I have a custom Alhambra W-3 and will try it with the same d'Dario strings.
@@KostadinLandzhov I did start on classical guitar when I was a kid
@@MichaelWatts Hi again. For me is interesting what kind of strings you are using usually? Martin ? Elexir or some other brands? I am mostly play with Martin SP phosphor bronze 12-54. Sometimes Elexir 13-53. Greetings
@@KostadinLandzhov I use Elixir PB 12-53 and 13-56 exclusively
Brilliant.
Thank you!
@@MichaelWatts I’ve been working on a flat top jazz guitar specifically made for flat wounds. So far I’m thrilled with the sound but the hard part of actually finishing it still eluding me. 😐
I have left hand string scrapes driving me mad. How about a quick slide up and down the neck with the treble turned up ? That playing was gorgeous by the way.
Thank you for watching! Have you tried Elixirs? They do make a difference
@@MichaelWatts Not yet. Would the flat wounds you just reviewed not be a good choice ? I just ordered a set of Thomastik-Infeld Plectrum Light Acoustic 11-50 as the reviews look great but they are expensive. I thought these DiAddario might save me some money. In any event how am I going to learn what you were playing if you don't make a tutorial ?
Thank you Michael for that very nice tunes! I really didn't expect any good sounding results (although I knew you would nail it 😊), but yeah the bossa and unfair funfair sounded good in my ears. Sometimes there was that squeak I didn't really like. We must not forget, that your guitar is very, very, very unusual in its richness, overtones and sustain. I would prefer a L5 with flatwounds, a Classical with nylon and of course your guitar with phosphorbronze. But it always good to know how we can experiment to fix a sound. Greetings from Germany, Christian
Thank you so much for watching Christian! It’s a weird experience, very different to what o was expecting but fun!
I think you could make fishing line sound good!
That’s very kind! I don’t think I’ll try it though. Not until I completely run out of things so do!
Very interesting Michael. I actually hate excessive string squeaks and pings and I find Elixirs do reduce that a lot. Perhaps I'll try these at some point. I currently have some D'addario XT strings on to see if they could replace my Elixirs but realised they are treated not coated so plenty of string noise and they sound just like EJ 16's but over twice the price so they better last longer 😊. The subject of strings eh?..............
Elixir have been such a vital part of my playing experience since 1998 - I really don’t see myself being able to use anything else!
i use flatwounds on my cort cj retro acoustic. gives a very unique tone when plugged into my vox amp
Yeah I’ll bet it does!
@@MichaelWatts its similar to the beatles' j160e tone
It seems to produce less resonance on the top and access more of the body of the acoustic guitar. I use the same strings on a smaller cheap guitar (that doesn't have a great top anyway). Brings out a nice lower midrange 000 type ring.
I really quite like that sound. My issue is that my guitar is just too bright especially going through my acoustic amp. Perhaps flat ones on my Takanini will make it a bit less bright and God I need help to have less string squeak. Thank you for the video.
You've probably found the solution. Also, it's always nice to find an uncommon thing that you get to make your own, as there aren't really a ton of acoustic players using flatwounds. I used them on all of my vintage election guitars, but am only now experimenting with flats on my acoustic.
@@allrequiredfields Acoustic players should use Flatwounds more often cause they'll save the frets from scratches
silk & steels can be another good option for this if you're still looking 👍
I like Martin's ones
Really interesting bass response. Thought my iPhone’s speakers were shot for a minute or two.
Ha ha! Doomph doomph doomph
I do this. Actually.. I been doing this for a long time. Exception my Dove. All about the piezo string noise issue
Very good idea David!
Interesting!
I’m glad you enjoyed it Audrey!
hmm I know this is through a microphone with added youtube compression but I'm not sold on the flat wound acoustic sound.
I feel like flats require amplification to really get the most out of them.
but yeah I play with flats (nickel 11 gauge) on my ibanez semi-hollow so I'm definitely biased on this.
That's a good point - through the pickup they sound pretty awesome
there’s yet to be much proof around the whole “youtube compression and audi degradation.” yes it’s a thing, but if it makes much of an audible difference to the human ear is a very lacking and trivial theory
This creates an expensive problem. You are either going to have to change strings depending on what tonal pallet you are aiming for on any given day or you will need two identical guitars, one with flat wounds and the other with regular strings.
D'Addario makes Phosphor Bronze "flat tops" that are a middle ground. Rather than wound with flat ribbon, they are wound with standard wire and then ground flat and polished. There is still enough space between the windings that you get some finger squeak, but not as much. They still ring out like standard phosphor bronze strings. They are also easier to bend than flat wounds.
You might want to check out Magma acoustic guitar phosphor bronze Flats. They are true flat wounds. They are not nearly as dull as steel flat wounds but still a lot mellower than D'Addario flat tops or any other phosphor bronze strings. The trade off with flat wounds are less volume and shorter sustain vs mellow tones and zero finger squeak. The thing is, string squeak is not all bad, in fact many do not realize how useful it is. When you pluck a string and then slide up to another note with brief hesitations at frets in between, the squeak excites the string and keeps it vibrating so that it sounds like you played 3 or four notes with little drop off in volume. A flat wound in the same scenario will lose significant volume so that final landing note is almost nonexistent.
And just one more consideration, if you have an LR Baggs Lyric installed, your EQ settings might require a drastic change.
Great playing as always. One of the commentators mentions d'addario flat tops, which I have never tried, but which are advertised as for acoustic guitars. I have, however, tried d'addario half rounds, which are adverstised as for electric, but do come with a wound 3rd in the 12-52 set. It's a long time since I tried them, but I recall them as sound pretty much like round wound nickels, but playing like flats. My understanding is that the flat tops are wound with semi-flat wound windings while the half rounds are wound with round winding then ground to a flatter profile, but I'm open to correction on this latter. Worth a try?
Thank you Robert! Flat tops and “ground wounds” are something I’ve never tried but I found half a pack of ancient D’Addario ground wounds in Isaac Guillory’s guitar case when I was looking after his Martin. Makes you think…
@@MichaelWatts It does. I played them for a while in the 70s. Maybe I'll try them again. I do quite like nickels, anyway.
Very interesting sound flat wound strings . Michael have you tried santa cruz guitar strings , Thomastik-Infeld Acoustic Guitar Strings or Stringjoy Guitar Strings ? I love Phosphor Bronze Acoustic Stringjoy Strings
Actually I haven’t! I’m really REALLY happy with Elixir strings and don’t see myself using gold anything else in the long term. But it’s always fun to explore!
You also get less fret buzz from flatwounds.
That's true
Nice playing and a decent recording as well (so many people out there demoing strings somehow not understanding we need a lot of detail and clarity on recordings of this nature) - are you using an internal mic or external?
Thank you! I use a matched pair of Gefell M300 condenser mics
Would a DeArmond Rhythm Chief or DeArmond Tone Boss work with with this set-up? Asking for a friend.
On a Kostal Modified Dreadnought? I don’t think so! But if you don’t mind clamping a pickup on then yeah, why not!
Kostal + Michael Watts would sound great with dental floss.
Well there’s a challenge!
What flavour?
@@MichaelWatts Mint, of course…but…waxed or unwaxed?
@@viv2199 That is the real question!
Mr Watts, which set of Elixirs do you use? 80/20 or Phos? You’ve probably said already but I couldn’t find it.
12-53 PB are my favourites
@@MichaelWatts thanks!
That was ballsy! Flat wound strings just suck the life out any acoustic guitar (either flat or arched top), sorry. Unless you want your Kostal to sound muffled (which might be a possible artistic requirement, if you’re in a punk mood, I guess…)
The only advantage is the absence of finger noise. But you’re a living testimony on how that might be taken care of, with technique, even on round wound strings.
For everyone else here: this sounded good just because an incredible artist was playing an incredible instrument. For most of us, the result would have been far worse!
Once more, thank you Maestro!
Ha ha ha! Thank you Gianfranco - I knew I could count on you! Sometimes the punk ethos gets all of us…
@BenLawyersguitar true. On an acoustic guitar you can trade no squeak for a dull sound. Sometimes that’s a legitimate choice, as I was saying. You can also learn how not to squeak, though… I’m not saying that’s easy, but is far from impossible, as anyone can verify by listening to their favorite acoustic guitar recordings.
Having only been playing for two years with my own version of success playing standard tuning, imo you do DADGAD in your own way? My own attempts always end up stuck in D lol.
Well DADGAD is great for D in the same way that standard is great for E but once you start moving out of the more immediate keys you find all manner of good stuff!
Kevin Eubanks check him out,acoustic guitarist
Wait, wait... you can actually use strings made for an electric guitar on acoustic??
These Daddario chromes flat-wounds are what I use on my electric guitars, and i Don't have an acoustic guitar, but i would be able to just put the same electric guitar stings on a regular acoustic ? wow. that's great if so..
You can use whatever you want! Whether it works or not is a different thing!
@@MichaelWatts Thanks for the response, Yea, I mean I thought this could potentially mess up the guitar neck, since the tension of strings might be very different ( I believe so ).. then why do they sell separate strings for acoustic and electric if there was no difference? 🤔🤔
@@BlackonBlack-you probably learned for yourself in the 8 months since, but in case anyone else sees this and is wondering, I'll reply.
Acoustic strings are generally heavier than electric strings yes, but a 12-52 set of steel strings is gonna be around the same tension regardless of if it's intended for acoustic or electric. In the early days of the electric guitar when strings a bit like these chromes were super commonly used, it was not yet apparent that electric guitars didn't need strings that heavy, so in a sense electric guitar and acoustic guitar strings were functionally interchangeable.
Nowadays acoustic strings are generally offered in much heavier gauges than electric strings and vice versa but the only way you'd run into tension issues is if you used the usual super light electric strings like 9s or 10s.
Also electric strings are more magnetically active to get more power to the pickups, but they don't necessarily have to be, and you can use any steel core string on an electric and make sound. Acoustic strings use bronze windings because it is brighter sounding acoustically, and easier on fret material as far as I can tell.
Magma makes Phosphor Bronze Flatwounds.
What made u choose a kostel ?
I’ve known Jason since 2009 when he was still an apprentice and his work even then was incredible. It just made sense - there were a lot of factors involved but he really understands the guitar from the player’s pov too
Those Flatwound strings will save the frets from scratches
That’s true!
@@MichaelWatts KF110 Flatwound Acoustic Strings would work better
So does Pat Metheny in his Ibanez hollow body
.
Really? I didn’t know that! Thank you!
@@MichaelWatts Speaking of mellow tone, you should do an episode with La Bella's Silk & Steel.
After watching your video, I put Thomastik-Infeld Swing Series 13 gauge flatwounds on my Yamaha acoustic, since I've been using those strings on my regular jazz guitars. Best decision ever for jazz, bossa nova and some dry funk. It really cuts the treble, which makes the piezzo pickup sound less harsh. Check out our version of "The Chicken" where I'm playing those strings on the Yamaha. czcams.com/video/0854TnjWGhA/video.html
All the best from Berlin - Daniel
Very cool!
Beautiful. WOW, I am so impressed of the tone and your finger style playing. What guitar do you play? Any additional guitar effects pedals? Is it Amplifier recording or direct to Audio interface.??
Thanks Rudy - the guitar is a modified Dreadnought by Jason Kostal and all you’re hearing hear is the acoustic instrument into the mics. No amps.
The low end is ..... like playing high gain music through a weaker speaker - gurgling. And you have a pair of M300. Interesting .... At some point the low end is simply too much.
It’s woofy as hell! I didn’t use any EQ so if I was using this set up for proper recording I’d definitely trim the bass!
@@MichaelWatts Definitely bass trimming is in order :-) But this is Kostal - it is supposed to have such a powerful low end. What a great instrument. Can you compare to a Greenfield - I'm currently wondering which to commission and kind of levitate towards MG.
@@IvayloNikolov They are both extraordinary talents!
“Over-earnest 1990s songwriter” ahahaha
There were quite a few of them back in the day…
What on earth is a “flat top guitar?”
It’s the opposite of an Archtop guitar!
sound thin...