The plane with a propeller in the middle... Martin 262 Convoy Fighter!
Vložit
- čas přidán 14. 12. 2022
- NEW CHANNEL:
• Launched from the bigg...
3d Model Artist: www.artstation.com/artwork/3q...
Extra research provided by: www.amazon.com.au/Martin-Mode...
Discord: / discord
My News Channel: / @aviationstationyt
Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @foundandexplained
Patreon:
/ foundandexplained
World War 2 had revealed a flaw for the US Navy.
Their convoy ships that resupplied fleets, armies, and bases across the world were vulnerable to enemy air attacks and required excessive protection from warships to ensure cargo reached their destinations. Difficult to do and an effective way for the enemy to tie up resources.
The navy, still traumatized from the war with the nazis, feared that the soviets would play copycat and go after the lucrative cargo ships in the atlantic - if the cold war turned hot.
So the answer would be a new type of plane - one that had the power of a normal fighter interceptor but didn't require a carrier to launch or land...
A plane that could take off vertical - or VTOL from its tail!
In 1949, the US Navy Bureau of Aeronautics began a competition to develop this new convey fighter that had the specific ability to be launched from smaller vessles and would protect them until carrier forces could arrive.
This plane would have a new class, called the VF, standing for Convoy Fighter, and have several conditions.
The first, obviously, was the ability to take off from the deck of a convey ship
The second was the ability to fly close to sonic speeds at 45,000 feet. A pretty mean feat considering it had to go sea level to 45k in 5 minutes.
Carry a single pilot with an ejectable pressurised cockpit
Perform a combat role for at least 100 minutes to a range of 100 nautical miles
And land to be rearmed and refueled.
To get the best possible design they recruited five different aircraft contractors.
The first, and the hero of our story was Gleen Martin company of Baltimore. In addition, there was also Lockheed, Northrop, Convair and Goodyear. Each with their own designs and concepts - one of which, the Convair pogo, we have already covered on the channel.
So what was Martins design for the competition?
i like plane
Plane good
Plane nice
True true I love plane
Plen like
All According To Plane
So cool how wildly innovative engineers have been! Never heard of this particular craft!
Look up the Heinkel Wespe.
Convair also had a VTO plane called the XFY Pogo. Quite a few VTO plane prototypes were made by several companies before the concept was deemed unpractical.
probably good reason why you haven't lol
Linus Torvalds once said: "Technology is never a problem. People are always a problem". And what he meant by this was that human creativity prevails even when the application is completely misunderstood.
yeah its fictional so no $#¡T you havent heard of it...
It's an oddball but it just looks so damn cool. This is what a kid would draw in a notebook.
The Germans made something like this first. Look up the Heinkel Wespe.
There's also Piaggio P.180 Avanti which looks like its engines were fitted wrong way around:) but it flies well.
and the coleoptor
I think that Martin had a better grasp of the situation or at least, as you said, a more honest presentation.
Yeah, the Navy doesn't care if you go bust trying to fulfill their fantasies.
This idea was insane. Just think how long it took to get the Osprey operational, from the 1980s to the 2000s!
You think as well. By the time these sort of planes would have started mass production
Helicopters would have been entering the scene and just swept them away.
Same with the harriers
They did not care about safety as much; it would have been in the air in less than three years.
Plus add in no computer controls.
@@TenShine1productions - dude, helicopters were "in scene" before this crap, made by drug abuse sick engineers, received funding !
Canada had one in the 60's
8:50 nice footage of the Marine version of the Cobra attack Helicopter! I was a Cobra crewchief in the army from 1984 to 1993. The Marine Cobra has two turbine engines (redundancy in case of engine failure out at sea) there are plenty of newer Attack helicopters now but I still think the bill ah-1 series were the best attack helicopters ever to come off the production line. They're simple, reliable, and they don't cost here as much as all of these fly by wire aircraft.
There's nothing wrong with cost-effective when you're trying to deal with guys in sandals riding around in Toyotas.
@@fakshen1973 You're wrong. You can play your high-tech toys untill the real war comes. And then you will need just about anything that can fly, shoot missiles and pop flares. State of the art tech is allmoust impossible to maintain and replace in all-out war.
@Karl with a K yeah I spent many a year going to field training exercises and watching the cobras light stuff up. I ended up my 9 years in the Army at Fort Eustis after I got back from korea. I got a slot as an instructor in the power train and rotor section and put my experience to good use training the next generation of mechanics and crew chiefs. I do miss being out on the flight line though.
@Karl with a K yeah recruiters have master's degrees in bending the truth. I know that when I went in they made a point of saying that the Army was the only branch of service that you could become a pilot without a college degree which is true, however I never got around to going to Warrant officer candidate school and all that stuff. I got out in 92 or 93 right after desert Storm. They had done away with all the separation bonuses so I was trying to figure out a way to make the separation a little bit more productive. I had landed the position of training NCO for the unit and one thing that I found out during that time. Was that if you exceeded the body fat percentage twice in one year that you would be given an honorable discharge and that since you were forced out they would give you a $3,000 separation bonus. LOL needless to say I was the first one to get that out of our unit as far as I know. LOL
Once had a sea cobra fly alongside my semi truck and track me with the gun turret as I was approaching a beach the Marines were conducting a landing exercise on. Pretty dang cool even if I was "killed"
Jared A. Zichek has a Google book all about this plane as well as the whole program that it was developed from. So if you like this video, and how could you not, give it a read. Another amazing job! You're setting the bar a little higher with each video👍👍
You clearly didn't watch the whole video......
10:34
Very like the German design VTOL aircraft of 1945. To me, the incredible part of this is the way Martin designed a take-off and landing system that could be retro fitted to most cargo ships, to handle a VTOL aircraft, it is amazing! It's a pity it was already outdated, as convoys were a thing of the mid-twentieth century.
With its swept back wings and it’s duel counter-rotating propellers, it may have out performed the fighters of the time.
that landing system alone is nuts, seems way more compact than even a normal helipad.
Im not an expert with vtol stuff but what I've learned from simulations is that controlling your direction is FAR easier than trying to hover in a single location
*also Im now imagining a game where you have like an airship or something and that system is used for parasite fighters or something*
On an airship you'd get the added benefit of being able to launch the planes by simply dropping them off the ramp.
I think I just launched a few parasitic fighters in my pants at this idea 😂
It was all nuts
👈👈😘😘✈️✈️✈️
I make aircraft video's
Imagine a high sea ?
Smart of them to properly think about landing under real world conditions.
Always love these videos! So cool to learn about these planes I sometimes haven’t even heard of
Great video! I love the CG visualizations you do for all these "theoretical" aircraft. I would love to see you cover the other aircraft from this competition, as they all seem unique and creative!
Wow! It’s like a Triebflügel but, you know, not as insane.
😁
Ironic that the Triebflügel was never mentioned.
It's more like a Heinkel He-L-IIIB-2 Lerche
Honestly that whole landing procedure and mechanism was kind of beautiful. There's something very considerate about that makes me happy
pilots with 60% death rate on landing is beautiful yes
This reminds me in many ways of the concept of using the Empire State building as an airship dock or having smart highways where stationary human traffic controllers remote pilot groups of cars (that concept was from the 60s I believe). 20th century engineers had a habit of forgetting to consider the practicalities of having humans actually operate the designed systems in real-world scenarios.
Kudos to Martin Co's engineers for realizing that pilots would have a lot of trouble trying to land on the deck of a swaying ship but that *manually* position-corrected platform concept was just wild! I mean, we could probably design something like this today with high-precision position sensors, wind compensation, and guidance algorithms running on a GHz processor doing trillions of calculations per second, but even that would be challenging. Doing that *manually* would have likely made this system one of the deadliest aircraft to land in military aviation history.
Empire State Building as an airship dock was not just a concept.
The Harrier was all manual control remember.
I dont know what is more mindblowing - this weird plane concept or the impeccable animation in this video?
I can just see these things knocking each other over like domino's on the carrier deck
that would be hilarious
funny but they would be mounted down in the best thought through part of the design, the moving landing platform.
There is a model kit company named "Fantastic Plastic". The Have models of the Martin A Variant as well as the Goodyear and Northrop versions. So, yeah, a series on all three would be appreciated.
Always knocking it out of the park with these animations
that tall plane with that narrow tail as a base would just fall over in any kind of sea on a ship.
It was certainly a clever idea in theory. The huge problem with such projects is always the landing, the takeoff was the easy bit. Unfortunately, stopping a plane safely, then landing, is damn hard. The Harrier was really the only one that truly got all the ducks in a row during that era (the Soviet Yaks worked, but barely).
Bloody lethal to the pilot and home ship, never mind the enemy! Also; nice French Navy Corsairs on the US carrier! 😀
Damn that’s a cool design and so many interesting ways to solve all the issues that came up!
Really nice video. I didn't knew US had also tried a vertical take off plane.
I only knew about the French Coleoptere plane
More videos about VTOL, STOL and other vertical or short takeoff and landing planes would always be a good thing. It is interesting that in the end, the short runway ended up being the best idea, even after ducted jet propulsion was a common thing. The intermediate technology is the hardest, but it creates wild innovation.
1:29 i can feel fear in those poor F-18s
Would love to see the others in the competition, wacky planes are always fascinating!
I'v seen this concept in some artist's impressions of a few last ditch WW2, drawing board, Luftwaffe projects. Obviously drawings and data made it to America and US manufacturers, such as Martin, after Germany's defeat in 1945.
You saw the Focke-Wulfe, Treibflugel, and its not very similar given that the engines on the nazi plane are wing mounted
Love this airplane, and the way you brought it 'back to life' is totally awesome!!
This could be way more useful in drone tech. The landing difficulty would totally be eliminated and they can downsize/upscale the project.
Awesome,earned a sub. Love to see the Northrop and Goodyear designs.
1:48 In Navy squadron speak, VF stands for "fixed wing, heavier than air, fighter aircraft."
The post war years were amazing times for some incredible engineering.
My aviation-loving heart, just aches, that this mechanical marvel never soared the skies above...
My aviation-loving heart is happy it never did. It would only have led to the death of many pilots and a few damaged ships too. It was simply put a bad idea.
@@skunkjobb It's funny reading ccomments like that, like no, this thing was a piece of shit from the start I'm glad it's not flying.
I thought this plane only existed in Captain America movies. Edit: the landing capture system is very clever! Just hover while the ship grabs you.
Enjoyed your coverage and I am a aviation nut too. I have never seen or heard of the aircraft shown here. The Navy Tigershark was a great aircraft that just got lost in the end of horrible war. I never heard if the Tigershark ever entered service.
Another interesting model that would be awesome to see built with modern tech, I bet it would be just as the original designers dreamed of.
Yea with drone tech shouldn't be too hard. Only problem is with powerful engines comes vibrations. Which can shake the whole plane at unexpected times
A turboprop VTOL fighter today would be hopelessly obsolete. And jet-powered ones already exist - harriers and f-35b
@@dogeness Sure, but it still would be pretty cool project and who knows, maybe just fine for light attack role, in the end it is a significant advantage always if the aircraft doesn't need a long strip.
@@dogeness roles like the MQ-8B’s could be done well by a more plane-like prop drone.
👈👈😘😘✈️✈️✈️
I make aircraft video's
I think that in practice this thing would have worked about as well as a handbrake on a canoe !
Enjoyed this segment, always all of the content 👍, yes, bring the other concepts.
This has become my favorite video and designed aircraft.
Thank you very much for making this.
That landing system was genious
What an interesting airplane and particularly of an airplane I never heard about, and it is funny because I'm quite a aviation buff! That said, it is curious that Martin 262 Convoy Fighter used the same number of the Messerschmitt 262A! Interesting but honestly I believe it would be very difficult to developed properly possibly around the turboprop, an issue that engines manufacturers had big problems to contend with between the forties early 1950. Cool and really a good job 👍👍👍
Hi Paolo. I don't find it curious since the serialization of new technology always get some common numbers. Saying that, there is however an issue of the Great Patent Heist, where the propeller transmission of that aircraft was a German patent that was literally stolen (notice that even in a war, some legislation still holds, in order to avoid ugly (I mean UGLY) situations), I think from the vertical take-off equivalent aircraft or from a future variant of Messerschmitt F109 (?). Take care.
I noticed that too! Interesting...
@@christopherneufelt8971 thanks for replying! Yes, it was indeed a coincidence regarding the sterilisation of common numbers. In this Franz Anselm that managed to design the Jumo 004B and put in production, he soon managed to immigrate to USA and hired to set up a new turbine division for Lycoming. He concentrated on producing engines for helicopters His first design, the T53,[1] would go on to be one of the most popular turboshaft engines in history, powering many helicopters. In the 1960s he finally led the development of a new design for tank use, which developed into the AGT-1500, used on the M1 Abrams. One hell of an Austrian! 👋👋
@@paoloviti6156 Hi Paolo. These people were the last generation of innovators. Since that time we have few or not at all innovation in critical markets. I know that from my own profession, engineer. A friend of mine that worked in aerospace industry back in the 70s told me that besides the Germans being innovators, they were asked frequently to help with engineering mathematics and analytical geometry, since many aspects of their designs were impossible to comprehend analytically.
Have a great weekend!
@@christopherneufelt8971 hello Christopher, very true that those guys like Franz Anselm were truly the last generation of innovators and yes it is very true that they were very often asked to help with very complicated, mathematical and other important issues. They were highly brilliant and educated people. Now they are only doing it by "the book" scared by responsibilities therefore they are not great innovators. A case in the point was the development of the engines of the
Concorde the Olympus 593 Mk 610 that ran into serious problems, I don't remember exactly what, but Rolls-Royce did a very good thing: they recalled their best engineers that retired, because of their age, of course if they were still capable, to help them. Thanks to those wonderful old men they virtually saved both the Concorde and Rolls-Royce. Guys that UK should always be proud of. I wish you to a happy weekend and more importantly a merry Xmas with your family ☃️
Wow, this is some great content. Kudos Neil!
AMAZINGNES!!! And yes, please do the other aircrafts!
Even if this would have been developed further, the supersonic propeller might have been it's undoing. The one other plane that tried this, the Republic XF-84H, worked overall, however the ungodly noise of the propeller made the ground crews physically sick. On a ship, where you cannot hide from that noise, it probably would have been unfeasible.
Counter rotating props are very loud. This is a really cool design. Maintaining something like this on a carrier would be difficult. Too tall for the hanger deck?
To say it made the ground crew sick is an understatement. The noise straight up gave a dude a seizure.
the propellers would shred a person when trying to eject from this plane
Prototype B = pilot blender
I could see a smaller version of this design as drones today!! Maybe. Man 10 small drones of these able to do swarm like maneuvering. With large guns on them!! DAMN!!!!
Supersonic propellers was the problem with the XF84H "Thunderscreech". Turns out that prop tips moving above Mach 1 create both ear damaging levels of sound and nauseating infrasonic resonance with both deck and airframe. Really bad for ground crews and pilots.
I wonder what the diameter of those props should’ve been, taking that it was supposed to take off and land without the wings generating lift. And the second interesting question is the length of the gear to accommodate for those middle fuselage props that you can’t tilt upwards after you put the plane to rest horizontally. Crazy design 😁
Crazy is not enough, add stupid and idiotic. And yeah, the propellers diameter must have been several meters - just look at a chopper rotor.... really stupid idea... extremely stupid.
yes they seem to be built for speed not static thrust
I’d love to see you and Mustard do a video together
these old ideas are perfect for the drone age.
Drew a plane with similar fuselage props on it a few years ago. Had no idea the US explored such an idea, though my design wasn't meant to be VTOL.
Damn how many of these tail sitters did they have.
So you could say it was the Martin Experimental 262.... or ME-262 Lol
Thank you so much for this video. I really enjoyed watching it.
This looks like a good idea for a drone fighter
Would you like more plane to go with your propeller?
This kind of VTOL propulsion seems like it'd be very handy for a modern UAV of some kind.
The prop-in-the-middle part was actually from a Focke-Wulf paper project from late in the war, though IIRC that wasn't a tailsitter. Like a lot of such German designs, it ended up being built by the US after the war.
Yes please, to see about the other competitors :) cool video, thanks for sharing
The Ryan 'Verti-Plane' VTOL Jet Delta-wing used a Variant (if not 'Copy-of') Martin's sea-borne 'plane catcher', in their XV-14, a few years later.
If the B model was produced, possibly pilots avoid to fly on it, because the propollers right behind the cockpit. If you eject on that layout, immediately you became sliced meat. Nice video!
I had an idea for a plane like this before. This plane is super cool.
Never seen this before. Always thought the most bizzare carrier plane was the gutlass cutlass until i see this 😅
Was waiting till the end for some explaination of how this thing would keep balance while hovering.
Propellers tips moving at supersonic speeds would be a major problem, the shock wave would create all kind of trouble, helicopter designers are very aware of it.
Yes, please cover the Northrop proposal, if you are provided and/or find enough data. Keep up the EXCELLENT work!!
WOW! If this aircraft was a wild project, I can't wait to know more about the other competitors.
The absolute eye catching 3D modeling!!!
I was more intrigued by the centrally mounted propeller. That would be a challenge to pull off. I suppose it's not much different in concept than counter-rotating props on a wing mounted engine, though.
And that's why onboard helicopters are useful.
Thank you for another great video.
Today's technology is a marvel! It is truly remarkable that this aircraft, this strange bird, has been brought to life in such a way that it can now soar through the skies. It is a dedication to the ingenuity and hard work of those who, so many years ago, designed this and present it to the committee with such clever solutions..
I don't see how this plane would protect the ships from the biggest threat, U-Boats....
Yes, please. I'd love to see these prototypes flying. Thanks.
Wary interesting design . I strongly believe it will find its plaice on future drone carrier concepts .
Would definitely like to see the other aircraft in the competition having enjoyed your logo video already.
When you said "they assumed some of the worst conditions known to man" I knew you were going to have a clip of the Royal Navy in the North Sea
It would be nice to see them all once a competition so interesting
Two questions come to mind immediately: 1) Why show it with traditional landing gear? 2) Subs were the main threat to convoys, so why the 45k ft requirement and why include 20mm cannon rather than saving the weight for bombs? Anyway, still fascinating.
A very fascinating design and given today's r/c build capabilities, we could actually build a scaled version to test what it would have been like along with the other competitors. it would be fantastic to see (albeit in scaled version) what the performance would have been like.
Cover the others too please.
Thisbe wildly interesting.
The hardest part of this project would be finding pilots with the guts to actually fly this thing.
Not at all: there have always been guys (and the occasional girl, yes Hanna) lining up to fly whatever contraption somebody dreamt up.
Truly one of the planes of all time
It's crazy ideas like this that gave way to crazy ideas that worked.
Wow ! Amazing research on a rare never implemented fighter !
Please cover the other aircraft in the competition: fascinating to learn what the engineers thought up
Yes please cover the other aircraft in this competition.
I swear to God both of the following are true:
I have never seen or heard of this particular aircraft.
I drew this exact airplane thinking it was my original idea back in the 1990s when I was about 10.
Thank you. Awhile back I did a image search on a screen capture of this plane from another video that showed this plane without any explanation. Image search produced crap results. I had given up till I saw the thumbnail.
Definitely want to see more.
Great stuff!
FASCINATING!! Thank you.
What pray tell are Arniments, my wife had a bit of giggle, myself I thought I was hearing things, you know, hearing aids and all. This interesting though, and well presented!
At first thought, i thought this impossible, that's why i watched, but then realised with proper gearing on a toothed ring it could be done, not sure how fast the blades could turn though!
This reminds me a lot to the german Heinkel "Wespe" and "Lerche" concepts of WW2
Just a video ago I was pondering what if I attach contro props on an aircraft like this. And this video popped up as suggesting.
Martin 262 would operate from French vessels, that would carry Corsairs too? Joking aside, the Corsair was such a beast of an aircraft!
Awesome content!
Would be great if you could cover the Lockheed design too!
The XFY-1 pogo was never going to work owing to its tail only landing option. Add to that the fact that Convair had never considered all the variables as Martin did. Plus I think Martin’s experience building naval based aircraft did give them an edge with a whole range of choices. Honestly I would have just gone with the model that the landing system was set up for. The pogo had never considered everything that could have gone wrong on landing. Not to mention Convair had no experience building sea based fighters ( their only prior experience was the sea dart which was designed to take off and land on water). They also had a bad history of significant cost overruns and subpar products and service, ( most of their aircraft required significant post production modification to perform as originally expected)