Which 107 is best? Mercedes 500 SL or Mercedes 450 SLC?
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Such VALUABLE insight. So appreciated. Thank you
thank you! glad you enjoyed it
Thanks Pierre for your highly informative videos. I an an owner of an 1987 Mercedes 560SL, and without exaggerating for the last 18 years that I have owned it, I have only dealt with oil changes, ATF changes, and tires (no kidding). I do have the oil leak that is common on these cars which I only notice on a hot summer day but I chose to ignore it as I am waiting for the time that I will have to replace the timing change. It has 159K miles with the original engine and transmission. I do like to drive it fast and it seems to like it very much as the car seems to drive better after I do an 'Italian tune-up' this is because I only drive it on Sundays. Thanks so much for your help
Sorry I meant timing chain not timing change
Agree same here
No one else on YT can drop info like this without notes or preparation. Those of you who are new to this channel should subscribe. To say I have learned a lot would be a grand understatement.
thank you Matt. I try to keep it fresh
I am so happy with my 86 560SL! red beige interior.
Same here
@@josielmorera4076 if you are in LA we have a r107 group !
@@EmilianoCaballeroFraccaroli Thank you brother I’m in Miami
This guy really knows his stuff.
Great info, as always. I'm not much of a convertible guy, so I tend to gravitate towards the SLC cars. Just beautiful. Can't wait for that video! Thanks for all that you do.
i almost have the 1980 450slc ready for this video
@@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753 terrific! Looking forward to that!
Agree 100% with your assessment. We currently have a 72 350sl European model in my shop with a 4 speed manual transmission, and it is a real blast to drive. The 88-89 560sl are blue chip investments providing low mileage and exceptional original condition. Still some good buys out there, but I see a lot of buyers over paying for cars with condition issues both mechanical and cosmetic. Get some sleep Pierre !!! Lol
I have the 1984, 380sl, love it.
I love my 80 450SL. She loves Shell premium gas the best. It was all original when I got it 6 years ago at 83,000 miles. I swear I get 20 on the highway! I get 14 around town/ 40 mph and less. I've checked this mpg several times. Maybe the engine when new was broken in very well. My speed for highway driving is around 70 mph and 3,000 rpm. That car just loves the highway!
the 1980 is the best for fuel economy, with that 2.65 rear axle ratio. Thank you, CAFE standards!
Just came across a pretty cheap 1973 450 slc it needs work body wise too somewhat. I don’t know what to expect, some of the vintage Mercedes I am new to, appreciate the info! This helped out in what to avoid generally
If only I could find an expert on these cars somewhere......
The late 80's 560SL in my opinion, is the best one of them all, hands down.
@John C nope come and drive my '83 EURO 500SL
@John C R107 '83 500 SL
I’m pretty sure the latest m110 280sl cars had a 3.58 rear end which replaced the 3.69 rear end that is used in most of the late 70’s m110 r/c107 cars. The 4-speed manual are peppier than the later 5-speed 280sl IMO. My 1981 280slc 4-speed was definitely faster than my 1985 280sl 5-speed. Perhaps the trans ratios though. I do think that there were early d-jet m110 107 cars with higher rear end ratios, like maybe a 3.9, but these are really rare.
The 1:1 ratio in an m110 is not really that bad. Sure, I often hit the clutch and searched for a nonexistent 5th gear in my 280slc 4-speed, but on the other hand, I rarely put my 1985 280sl into 5th gear. I often have to drop into 4th to pass anyone, sometimes even hit third on the highway.
the '85 automatic 280 I used to service had a 3.9 rear axle ratio....
but I should check the TDM. I still like those cars, though.
Any R107 SL and C107 SLC are fast climbing in value and are really sought after .
TV programs such as Dallas and Hart to Hart helped the general public in knowing what they were and it undoubtedly added to it's longetivity on the market as a new car and kept used SL and SLC high in resale value.
Unbelievably ahead of its time, especially for their 1971 release they have held their age far better than comparable cars
i love the c107 personally.
So much good information. If you were going to do long distance rally events, on mostly paved roads but some dirt roads, which 1976 or earlier Mercedes model would you choose?
I have a 1982 280SL automatic. I also used to have a 1979 280E Euro version W123. I remember the 123 being so much faster than the 107 is....and it's all in the rear axle ratio, IMHO. I plan on trying to find a differential with the same ratio as the 123 had and hopefully that will make a difference. I always had a soft spot for the M110E. Also, in my opinion, the best of the 107's is a well sorted Euro 500SL. Small bumpers, Euro lights, high compression M117 5.0, more HP than a US version 560.
280sl is a great car...you can use a rear axle from 1979 or earlier 450sl...3.07 ratio
Mercedes Classic with Pierre Hedary
I really think a 3.07 rear end would be incredibly sluggish with an m110, and with the stock transmission and drive shaft, you might have issues with the flex disc.
Where is your “keep it original”, and “trust the engineers” here Pierre? :-)
The m110 doesn’t really come alive until 3500-4000 RPMs IMO, and they are acceptable at lower RPM, but get to be fun when you take them closer to the redline. That’s how they were meant to be enjoyed IMO.
1979 450SL yay or nay
From this video I would it’s a yay
Thanks
R - 107 1987 560SL 100%
Hmmm - good advice but disagree on 1981 380 SL, at least here in Australia. As sent here, the 380 did not have the troublesome AC controls, rather a manual AC control and the heating controls from earlier 107's. Also, Australian delivery 380's had double row chains and none of the anti pollution equipment of US models. They also kept the original bumpers, not the hideous monstrosities fitted to US versions. I have an '81 380 SL, great condition and 71,000 miles. It started smoking though so i had all valve guides replaced and while they were doing that got the chain and guides replaced as well. Here the 380 was the only variant officially sold from '81 to '86. It replaced both 350 and 450's and was itself replaced by the 560 in '86. 6 cylender versions were only brought in on order and the 420 and 500 were never sold here - any that came weere private imports, usually from England or Hong Kong due to RHD. English cars are a no go here due to rust. Now good Australian 107's are being bought by English and Japanese collectors and exported, thus driving prices up. Keep up the good work!
yes..your version of the 380 was MUCH better than ours.
Hi pierre ! What's your thoughts on a 74 slc450 ? Love your videos.
Agreed. I have a '79 450SL that is getting MegaSquirt because the previous owner rendered the CIS FUBAR. I also have an '86 560SL that is getting an engine-out service for the oil pickup and various chain guides (including the oil pump chain tensioner rail.
People really need to start talking about the lower chain guides and oil pickup tubes on these things. The latest models are approaching 30 years of age, and rubber/plastic bathed and heat cycled in oil for that long doesn't last. What was left of my 380SE's pickup fell apart in my hands. Oh, and let us not forget the coolant o-rings in the timing cover. The list of excuses to not pull the engine quickly thins...
I agree about the lower chain guides...they can lock up a motor.
I wish there was something I could do to help you fix your CIS system. Maybe we can discuss it via email? mbownersforlife@bellsouth.net
I have a 1983 280sl German model and it runs great 98 thousands miles.
Love my 85 380sl
I'm looking at a 1976 450 SLC at the moment...but now I'm reconsidering after he said the 1977 had the catalytic converters relocated away from the cylinder head. Ugh! Bummer, man. This car was the absolute best 70s color they made: puke green!
280sl/SLC had 3.69 rear up to 79 and 3.58 after.
What's your opinion on the 1976 450 SL with 60K? Thank.
When I first got my 80 450SL I had a bit of gear whine, the fuel pump was sometimes loud, the engine rumbled a bit (like an intermittent misfire), the front left wheel bearing needed packing, and it didn't take off as fast as it does now. All it needed was to be driven and enjoyed! I ran some Lucas gas treatment through it and packed the bearings and just drove it. Now all those issues went away.
Don't get me started on that dang climate control servo....
well, the c/c servo can be opened up and repaired...have you tried disassembling it yet?
The Pierre Hedary Mercedes-Benz Classic Specialist No! I didn't know you could do that! Wow! I had to disconnect the electrical connectors (both 2 on the servo and one on the monovalve(?)).
I had an intermittent battery drain issue that I could not detect as a parasitic draw test. (From memory was 33 milliamps) I don't get a dead battery anymore. I got the idea to disconnect the electrical plug from Kent Bergsma's video. I had to drive all last winter with no heat. Rough on a girl!
on the top of the servo there are four silicone plugs...these hide the screws that hold the top on. if you lift the top, be careful to leave the vacuum connector separate from the top,. or else you will dislodge the vacuum lines. Below that is the vacuum grid, which also unscrews. I would get an old unit for practice.
The Pierre Hedary Mercedes-Benz Classic Specialist wow! Thank you so much. I will come back to tell you how it went when I do it. Thanks!
Hello, great advice...Is a 1978 SL450 with 154,000 a good choice?
Just got a 75 450 slc with 32k miles. Whats your opinion on them? Thank you.
I need an ignition barrel and also an AC compressor clutch for my 1976 Mercedes 450SLC
Hi Pierre, can you do more videos on W116s and what their strengths are? Thanks!
SLC content please.
This'll probably get lost but I'm looking at what seems to be a prime example 1976 Mercedes 450slc with 125000 miles. It's blue on blue leather and I fell in love the MOMENT I saw it. Are there any serious reliability problems I should be aware of? Any insight at all would be massively appreciated.
It's an auto though :( but that could be fixed presumably
nothing wrong with the auto...but it is what it is...email me at mbownersforlife@bellsouth.net and I will be happy to give you any advice I can. These are good cars and the only real problem could be a stretched timing chain at that mileage
SL always
Thinking Euro import 280SL with 5 Sp Manuel.
im looking at a 1973 450 slc hardtop
Needed your help with regards to my 450 SLC. Its RHD UK market car. The car doesnt rev beyond 3000 RPM, in any of the gears. The gear shifting is fine and the engine runs a bit rich. what should i check for this issue?
Should I avoid 78 single row timing chain 450 SLC euro?
Thanks for mentioning the 1972 350sl. I think its a real unicorn. While they were popular there are very few good ones left in original condition. I am about to start a rolling restoration on one and the first think to change will be the fuel and brake lines. Do you have any hints on what preventative maintenance i can do on one?
start by checking your timing chain...adjust your valves....replace you rubber fuel hoses and injector seals
If you gathered every car in the 107 lineup and had your choice to mix & match components, what would that car end up consisting of? To be a bit clearer for example: what engine would you match to your pick of final drives mated to which transmission, etc?
that's a fun question!!! I would take a 380slc, preferably a euro car and install a 1986-89 500SL engine if it were a mix and match
Ive been thinking about this a lot. My dream is to get a pre smog era slc and to swap in a euro hc 560 engine and transmission along with amg goodies. The motor mount brackets have to be bolted onto the block from a 560 sl along with trans mount. Would be fu. To have a 300+ bhp slc
I find it quite interesting that you would choose a 380 SLC as your base model because my question was derived from the desire to upgrade my 1985 380SL and convert it to a 5 speed manual.
I do have two stumbling blocks, though,
1. The car is a well maintained rust free example with only 35k on the clock and the only issue is the AC isn’t working, so I’m not sure that I should convert it.
2. The custom work of fitting a 5 speed gear box has proven to be quite challenging because the aluminum blocks for the 380’s & 560’s have a completely different transmission mating configuration than the earlier 450 4 speed boxes and Mercedes never made a manual box for the newer cars.
Easiest to accomplish / highest performance would be 450slc 5.0 with the 4 speed from a 350sl/SLC. Only the 5.0 has a very similar trans and block interface. It's not the same as the rest of the later alloy blocks. It still uses the intermediate plate. There are two holes that do not align though so some work is still necessary. The euro high compression 4.5 with the 4 speed is a direct bolt together and is only down 12-25 hp from the 5.0 depending on what published power you believe. Put it in a late SLC with alloy hood and rollup windows. 3.27 LSD rear. Cut a couple coils front and one rear or find AMG springs. Kyb shocks for a 1989 300se w126 work great. Fronts need the bottom mount swapped from r/c107, rears bolt in. Very similar to my drift car setup which works very well. I've stiffened my car up more and modified the steering too.
Hi there , what do you think about an sl450 79 with 65k , well kept but not rebuilt ??? It´s a lower price option for the 86-88 Thank you ...
I have 560sl with 300bhp, middle east version is the best 107. Very powerful and unbelievably fast. I smoked many modern cars at the traffic lights and hiways. The us version is much slower and doesn't breath as good as the middle east 560!!! No cats either it is a blast.
Gus Ibrahim
Your car must not be a factory delivered version, as the 560sl was not offered in the Middle East, only as a J spec (japan + Australia) or US Spec (North America), and those are 227 hp. The 500sl is 240hp.
mknmike
You are absolutely correct. The 300bhp came from a 1990 560SEC. The car now is to fast to control because of the weight to the engine output ratio.
I need to install much stronger coils and struts in the front at least. I didn't expect the difference between the 2 engines is going to so noticeable, but it is.
Ps. The 560 was introduced in the UAE before japan and the US. I had a 560SEL in 1987 in Abu Dhabi. The SL and the SEC were available too, no cats whatsoever.
Gus Ibrahim
560 w126 was available worldwide, but I believe the 560sl was just Japan/AUS, North America.
Do you have r/c107 tri-y (four down pipes, dual each side) on your 560sl?
@@mknmike
560 SEL, SEC and SL back in the day were available in Abu Dhabi's Mercedes shorooms. M117967 high compression in the SL, and
m117 968 in the sec and sel. All engines had no cats and high compression because of the hot climate and the low air density.
Gus Ibrahim
That is interesting because 560sl didn’t show in the EPC when I had access to it, only Japan-Australia and North America. I found this list of 5.6 motors (posted by bondavi on benzworld):
9:1 unit. 5.6 liter .967(aus) 560SL (107.048) 175/4750 9.0:1 .967(us) 560SL (107.048) 173/4750 9.0:1 .968RUF 560SEL (126.039) 200/5000 9.0:1 .968KAT 560SEL (126.039) 178/4800 9.0:1 .968(us) 560SEL (126.039) 180/4800 9.0:1 .968 560SEL (126.039) 220/5000 10.0:1 .968RUF 560SEL (126.039) 220/5000 10.0:1 .968KAT 560SEL (126.039) 205/5200 10.0:1 .968NV 560SEL (126.039) 200/5000 8.0:1 .968RUF 560SEC (126.045) 200/5000 9.0:1 .968KAT 560SEC (126.045) 178/5000 9.0:1 .968 560SEC (126.045) 220/5000 10.0:1 .968(us) 560SEC (126.045) 180/5000 9.0:1 .968RUF 560SEC (126.045) 220/5000 10.0:1 .968KAT 560SEC (126.045) 205/5000 10.0:1 .968NV 560SEC (126.045) 200/5000 8.0:1 KEY: NV = Low compression SA = Special (limited) version KAT = Catalytic converter equipped RUF = Reconverted vehicle
Hey Pierre, Even considered doin some videos about CDI's? OM 642 maybe?
Nico, those models are not really in our scope of interest. We try to focus on model platforms introduced before 1992. Sorry.
What about 1976 350 sl same as 1977?
So 1973 450 SLC is good or bad ....
good!
Speaking of single row timing chains, this video made me paranoid. I still own my father's w123 230e he imported from Germany in 1983. Only 65k miles. Turns out it has a single row timing chain on its M102.980 engine. Am wondering if I should get it looked at and have the valves adjusted while they're at it?
i would say yes but the single row chains on m102 engines are not an issue...compared to the m116 engine
@@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753 the chain is clearly visible from the oil cap. It feels tight and doesn't move up or down when pressed, but does move about a millimeter back and forth on the rail. I also switched to synthetic oil last time and sprang a bit of a leak (haven't identified from where) but we used the same hengst oil filter brand we had been using prior for mineral oil. Is this a problem and should I eventually switch back to mineral based? Thanks.
i think you are going to be just fine.
Just wanted too say i like the channel im an apprentice mechanic in canada and i just got my hands on 1974 450slc been sitting for years what is your opinion on changing the points ignition to an igniter set up
Hello, Zak Teague and thank YOU so much for your question(s), we want to answer you as quickly as possible.
By signing in our Patreon www.patreon.com/thomaspolk page and making a donation of $10 your are assured of a 24 hour email response from Pierre.
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Zak! Stick with the points, they are reliable, they work just fine.
SLC Because of rally car :D
What is ur thought on 88 560sl?
please email me at mbownersforlife@bellsouth.net...this is a loaded question.
From my point of view, I rather prefer 450 SLC.
Now try and find ANY of cars he mentioned....Unobtainium 500sl, 280sl, 300sl with manual. ZERO chance these days.
No 560SL? Bored camera operator?
He did talk about the 560SL, but I agree with you in that the quick inserts of what looks like behind the light or mic stand and the camera's flip-out monitor were unnecessary. Pierre alone holds my attention.