Is harvesting 18650s from laptop batteries still a thing?
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2024
- Some people have asked about the solar gate project I started almost a year ago. I wanted to replace the two AGM batteries with li-ion cells from used laptops.
Now, that we can get cheap and reliable LiFePO4, I found collecting cells from used laptop batteries a bit outdated, cumbersome and probably even dangerous. And I don't mean this in a negative way.
So, the question is: building powerwalls from used laptop batteries, is this still a thing in times of LiFePO4?
HBPowerwall's video about a (near) fatal accident with DIY used li-ion cells: • Near miss, Smoke, Fire...
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I remember doing that, harvesting 18650 cells and making huge battery packs out of them. I'm very happy not having to do that anymore...
Thanks for helping save the planet and you where one of few out their willing to work to get what you have in batts their. Remember you didn't just work for the batts but you worked to help save our mother earth 🌎. Earth is a mess and needs a lot of work to clean up what's been done.
Thank you again.
I’m still doing it 1000+ cells
I've built a 10Kwh power wall from harvested 18650s 2 years ago. I only used LG, Samsung and Panasonic cells. Its been a great investment and really enjoyed building it. However I do agree lion is higher risk, there's more points of failure. Alot of 18650s are capable of high amperage discharge/charging but I only tickle mine. Each cell only ever sees around 300mA. I only charge to 4V and discharge to 3.4V and keep them
Great, thanks for sharing, Gareth!
I have a hoard of cells that I salvaged. But I'm too much of a pansy to rig them together and put them in "production".
This is because you took the time to correctly setup your rig. This is so good to hear considering I hear so many trying to get every once of power out of any type cell and kill it get peed off and say I hate these cheap lion cells and come to find out it's do to abuse and consumers fault due to design flaws right from the start. So pay more and get less for lifepo4 except less voltage and power density and a slight leg up. Lifepo4s are tad safer but in my eyes not worth the cost. Lifepo4s are marketing states safer because it cheaper for manufacturers to profit more and easier for the manufacturer to produce so they save money and you supposed to feel better because a unknown Chinese company said we lifepo4 is safer. Sorry both chemistries are unsafe. So pick one and learn it.
@@easylawncare LiFePO4 don't exhibit thermal run away... plain and simple.
@@pau1phi11ips wrong they can. Test lifepo4 that's faulty these have run away also but lower voltage helps slow this process due to density lifepo4. Read about this some more you will see what I mean. I'm not flaming you I'm trying to clarify your thoughts on thermal run away.
I work with 18650 cells almost every day and really enjoy it. I have a 60kw system made from recycled batteries and have built 100s of different sizes of batteries for lots of clients without any issues in the last 5yrs. 18650 is not for everyone, you must know what you're doing otherwise you can easily mess things up then blame the cells for your carelessness.
Tho Lithium ion Phosphate prices are declining but you still can't compare them. Recycled 18650 batteries is way cheaper expecially if you're on budget.
finally , the voice of reason from an intelligent person . some of these comments are like old women that should take up knitting with all this whining and fretting !
Hello sir I’m planning on building a 48v system of 18650 . What inverter you recommend ? Thanks .
We build with lion cells and we sell p.walls with 18650s and here is the deal any battery has it risk. You really just need to know what your dealing with and account for it with cell fusing etc.
I personally run 60kw + with two sunny islands. No problems at all.
Stay safe have fun.
Lithium-ion is too much maintenance IMHO. Watching the HBPowerwall guy inspecting his battery with thermal cameras and finding bad cells is a definite no no for me.
@@pau1phi11ips yes their is better ways of doing things too. It's just the way he knows how which is fine. But again why follow all others when if your willing and get some time to just learn it your self and find your own way of doing things. 18650s are far from terrible to work with. 2 come to mind that are absolutely nightmare for me and that's cad and pb. I personally don't like either and to be honest I really don't want to learn cad. I did learn pb very well.
Have fun and stay safe.
I built a powerwall with 18650 Lithium ion cells but have been migrating to 26650 LiFePO4 packs. And now I just received the 304Ah EVE batteries. I am in the process of top balancing and it's taking a very long time with a 20 amp power supply.
Thanks David. As a tip, you can connect the cells in series right from the start and connect your BMS as well. Then charge the whole pack with 20A and you're done in no time. The BMS will take care of disconnecting the charger if one cell goes out of specs. You can monitor single cells voltages via the BMS and manually discharge a cell with a light bulb quickly if it gets to high. Once you're charging over 3.45V slow down the charging speed so you don't have cells running off. Let the balancer of the BMS do the top balancing job for you over night (unless it's a Daly).
I'm using 18650's for small projects / packs, but quickly decided they're way too much work for big packs, especially if harvesting used cells.
EXACTLY !
I just love how colorful your 18650 bin is.
I think its great to recycle the cells. I would not bother with a power wall but for smaller projects i think its a great idea.
Definitely do the gate battery project!
OK, booked in...
IMO 18650 should be substituted by Lithium iron phosphate due to safety considerations. I vote to abandon those old projects and continue building new powerwalls. The gate project would be interesting as a side project.
nope my NMC sammy15Q 16s18p ebike battery is king can peak @10kw{i dont} no sweat and can charge in an hour (i dont} i use it between 25% and 75% charge to 63V and use down to 50V , i actually love the voltage discharge curve as it follows capacity, its a real reason i prefer as from FPV down to empty it follows SOC in a linear way rather than falling off a cliff suddenly as i dont have a coloumb meter on my bike, maybe a rare case but for me its king, as AVE says safety third, lol ;-]
Hi Andy, you're certainly are right about it. The wasted energy, time and money spent on building such powerwall out of those 18650 cells is not worth it. Add to it the risk factor!... However if you consider the energy density and weight of LiFePO4 vs Li-Ion when designing mobile applications, such as bikes, scooters, robots and portable appliances...etc. The Li-Ion is pretty much the only choice left for the engineers since other variations such as Li-Titanate are prohibitively expensive. I use them to revive my old cordless tools, garden lanterns and backyard lighting where it's safe from catching fire. By the way, the LiFePO4 batteries have considerably dropped down in price, but they're are still very expensive, just like the AGM are. So if you compare them to free salvaged Li-Ion, most people who cannot afford a solar system will not even consider them. So 18650 is still their playground and your educated analysis into making a safer pack with them will help them better understand the constraints, pros and cons of the project. They will learn probably as much or even more.
I thought about doing my scooter battery a long time ago with used batteries but I felt the same as you do with safety, complexity, and availability. Connecting the cells was also a concern because its bad to solder them but spot welders were expensive at the time (they've come down in price since). When I found channels like yours showing the LiFePO4 prismatic cells it was the obvious choice. No complicated battery configuration, no sorting and matching of hundreds of cells, they all bolt together without welding, you can get whatever capacity you like, and every cell get's it's own BMS lead rather than just one lead for each bank of cells in parallel. It's perfect for most applications except where there are serious weight/size constraints.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Philip!
18650s are useful in flashlights and radio-controlled products like RC cars and drones. They would also be good in LED projects for lighting rooms. You can also use the old ones for a power bank as they have customizable battery banks on eBay that you stick your own cells in without welding
What about safety of these used 18650 cells in comparison to LFP cells? I'm really concerned of using these used Li-ion batteries for anything.
Build the 24V LFP with the little cells for the gate, it's a fun little side project which should widen your audience.
There's lots of people curious about AGM conversions I am sure and even us regular viewers could enjoy it.
I wouldn't bother with a long comparison of capacity testing, just do a couple of episodes of the gate conversion.
In respect of used batteries, I'm vaguely interested in salvaged EV batteries, since watching DavePoz, but he and AveRageJoe have recently been buying off-the-shelf packs, I think that's the future.
Thanks for your comment. That's a good feedback and I will go ahead and do some smaller side projects with these LFPs and some of the Li-ion cells as well.
I think for smaller projects, giving used cells a second life is great. I think the difference between your big projects and hobby projects is that people with a bit of spare time and not much budget are likely to go down the path of 18650s etc. I know that for me, I use recycled cells for odd projects and to learn.
I keep the 18650 cells for power tool repairs and solar outside lights. Those seem to always come with crappy 18650 cells that don’t last. The ones harvested from laptops are much better quality usually and last much longer than the cheap Chinese ones in the solar lights.
Yes! It would be fun to see smaller and effective battery packs. Collecting 18650:s is not the point. The point is to be creative and find different solutions.
Stay creatively charged Andy!
You have 2 agm cases. Make one with lithium Ion and one with those 8 Palo lifepo4 cells. Then you can compare the size vs output of each and test them on the front gate and horse pen. Thank you for your videos. 👍👍
Did we miss the Philipp Video? What is going on... i think many people supported and you should keep us updated... maybe i missed it, but what is the Status?
The Palo cells in a 12v or 24v configuration would be interesting (and useful)
If you ever plan to replace the AGM for your automatic fence, have in mind that LiFePo is not chargeable below 0°C.
Doubt he worries about that living in Oz...
@@Jewelrymaker Well, have to admit that you're right. Did'nt thought about it. :-D
I’m in agreement with you on using the 8 batteries for your gate, it seems to me anyway, making anything large scale with 18650, a bit to much to go wrong in my opinion, soldering all those fuses on, for one....
AND if something goes wrong, a lot more work to resolve, “keep it simple “ easy to build and if it requires maintenance, less Hassle to fix or replace.
Its all part of a good design, why make more work for your self when you could be chilling out in the pool with a beer, enjoying all your hard earned solar power.
The possibilities are endless, go for it....and who knows, we might even save the planet, one solar powered garden gate at a time.
👍
Agree, I would put your excess 18650 into small power banks shells, test them and sell them on eBay
Thanks Paul!
Using those flat cells is really a smart idea they took less area better be used.
Maybe the best use for them is to rebuild depleted power tool packs? I built a spot welder out of an old microwave oven transformer and intend to rebuild my drill and saw 18v battery packs to keep them going.
That's a great idea!
I've also collected loads of used 18650's. I did make an electric bicycle battery, which worked alright until it short circuited. Also made an emergency battery to use to recharge my car battery. That worked all right as well. I found the best use for them is as replacement batteries for hand power tools. By putting them in a battery holder and taping the battery to the bottom of the hand tool, they work not only perfectly, but can be simply be plucked out and recharged when needed. I've tried using them as solar charged 12v batteries for security lights, but find the solar charging voltage is too high for the three cell configuration and too low for a four cell configuration.
Hi Andy ya it would be nice to see them put to some uses 👍
I finished making a 4s17p (!!) 18650 pack after a lot of trial and error, modem battery shucking, spot welder tuning, nickel strips, etc... I finished it just in time for my EVE LiFePO4 cells to arrive 3 days later. I'm 100% in for LiFePO4 for powerwall purposes from now on. I had the battery built in a single night vs. days of shucking laptop batteries. Oh yeah, and it's 10x higher capacity than my scrap battery!
Don't get me wrong, I'll still shuck old battery packs. Those 18650s can always find a use somewhere- I took my sketchy 17p pack and use it on a low-draw aquarium heater.
Save the planet. Shuck those cells.
Regards from Maryland
Thank you.
"Very cheap" is a relative term. A lot of folks with limited means are harvesting used cells because they are much less expensive, per kwh, than brand new, high-quality LiFePO4 cells/batteries. Even those "7200mah" cells are more expensive than a similar capacity of used Li-ion or LiFePO4 cells. I have built batteries from 100ah prismatic cells, 55ah cylindrical cells, and some smaller projects with both 18650 Li-ion and 26650 LiFePO4 cells. It all boils down to what cost you are comfortable with and what your particular use case is. Suffice to say that if anyone has an idea for a battery they would like to build, there are tons of options available and no reason not to have some fun with the various lithium batteries! :)
I really like the content you've been doing, but would find it very interesting if you built the gate battery with the 8S, 5ah LiFePO4 cells or the Li-ion pouch cells. Your channel has always been about "what if?" and that's what people like, I think. Go for it! Do more variety with your batteries and we can all learn more stuff! :)
Thanks for your feedback, Jason. As I said i the video, I could not get these used laptop batteries here for free in larger amounts, I would need to buy them. They come at the same price point or even more expensive than new LFPs. So with this pure financial standpoint, it's definitely not worth doing it. but yeah, the learning effect will be definitely there...
Ok, I'll go ahead with some side projects... Thanks again 😉
I agree 100%. Any more than about 30 recycled cells in a battery is asking for reliability problems. I tried making a 36V (15P12S) e-bike battery using LiFePo4 recycled batteries and it failed dismally after about 3 recharge cycles.
I rebuilt the pack using new LiFePO4 10AH "Headway" cells (2P12S) and they work magnificently giving me 100km of range.
Best use for recycled batteries is to convert old NiMH drill packs to LiFePO4 batteries.
Also good for repairing vacuum cleaner batteries. Would not recommend making up large power wall installations.
I think your approach of using large prismatic cells the optimal solution.
Absolutely 18650s is still a thing! You more than anyone should understand that!
I have a 14s, 300p power wall along with 2 Nissan Leaf batteries in use powering my home. I also have cells I am processing for a 14s, 400p battery. I would not say that they are dead, but I agree that there is slightly more risk with Li-ion vs. LiFePO4. Most of the risk can be mitigated with proper fusing+bms+breakers. All of my individual cells are fused and tested at least once for capacity and IR. Key difference though here is that I am in the States.
these are nice projects 300p and 400p and it is the tesla way. to have "breaker wire" i am not sure about the correct name. but the tesla way is very safe. if you have a run a way cell the fuse gets broken. but what is the states have to do with it ?
My electric gate used very little power to actually open and close but the little control module had a fairly high standby draw.
Doooooo it! I need to do this soon for my 2 sliding gates. I think I’ll go with the lifepo4 option.
Don't call them Lithium Ion, but NMC Cells. I use these cells for DIY power banks and small mini projects (lights, smartphone, etc). LFP or LTO are cheaper, safer and easier (screwing instead of soldering).
Thanks Marcus. Is LTO cheaper? I found them more expensive than all the other types.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It's about safety. LFP OR LTO are cheaper (in safitiy)! LPO = better in low temperature an cyclesl LFP are cheaper then lead acid. LFP are cheaper then LTO. Greatings from stormy Germany =)
Hi Andy, i also think that the effort with 18650 and Liion is too big to build the battery for the solar gate or the electric fence. But to replace the lead batteries with the palo cells and see how they work would be an interesting project. Thanks for your videos, keep up the good work.
Thanks Andreas.
I really want to see you get on with the solar gate project, regardless of the battery you use.
My 18650 cells have been relegated to just flashlights, mobile fans, and tool batteries. I am grateful for them, and will still choose small electronics that use 18650s inside.
But for projects any larger (electric gate), I think your 32700s would be ideal.
Thanks for your videos.
Thanks for sharing, that makes perfectly sense.
I still use 18650s in smaller projects like solar garden lights and power banks for phones but TBH as i tend to work more on 12V systems they are pretty useless so i tend to use LiFePO4 nowdays plus the safety issue of course 👍
Those huge packs of 18650's just always struck me as bombs waiting for the timer to go off. I've seen too many of them go boom, it's just a matter of time. Now using 48 x 304 ah Eve cells and feel much safer.
Then they where not properly handled. No offense.
Heya, nice to see those 18650 cell's I bought 5k-6k of them 2 years ago are still testing them lol. nnow that I have them I still want to use them, a lot of work. I could talk hours and hours about the subject of electro and elektronics because I know I have still a lot to learn
I have an 18650 setup 152P 15s just getting the second group ready to add to the first group .. once I finish the next 15 packs of 152P I will tie them together ...... 4 years of working and still working on it ... ( just part time ) I will say this about it WORK AND WORK AND WORK !!!! Now days with the cost of the Li-Fe /PO4 cells ... I would not ever do an 18650 battery. I would now do 250 to 280AH Li-Fe 16s ... BUT I have to remember the 18650 battery was due to money !!! and it would still be hard to spend 2000 dollars on a battery .... If you have the money just buy the big LiFe cells. Building the battery is SO SIMPLE ! and FAST.
But remember when you lose an Cell its you hole battery !!!! in a 18650 setup you lose around 2,700MAH . FYI Thanks !
Thanks for sharing, Sean!
You can now get LifeP04 12V 6Ah batteries that are setup with BMS in a case for about $25 on Amazon. Might be a better solution than building your own. Do you even need a charge controller for your fence or gate? BMS should just cuttoff solar when it hits max voltage and 10%-20% efficiency improvement won't matter much with such a small system.
$25 bucks??? I'd pay maybe $5
The BMS shut down the pack far to late unless we go with a smart BMS and can program it. I would always let the solar charge controller do the charging and the BMS will be there for safety if the SC goes kaputt. I would not trust just one method to charge batteries.
Hello Andy.
Those small 18650 can be used for many small projects, Backup lights, if you ever need to shutdown completely the offgrid garage, torch, to play with led and DC to DC converters, small and lightweight, they stay charged for a long time.
The pouch cells also are lightweight, and very flat, easy to hide, as cheap schring tubes you could use plastic bottles, put them in a metal enclosure, if you are afraid of them going nuclear.
For me, all batteries are great for the right purpose.
Cheers.
Thanks for sharing, great comment.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I know you have many good uses for them, surprise us. :-)
@@hommerdalor6301 OK, great... 😉
And yes would want to see some smaller format lifepo4 projects. Sometimes the smaller projects bring their own challenges.
Thanks Jason.
Time and technology marches on. You can take the lithium cells to a battery recycler and they won't end up in the landfill. Move forward with the LiFEPO batteries!
I dont bother anymore with cylindrical cells, i only use flat cells cuz they are more fittable on cases and also there's no gap between them like 18650 cells so with flat cells the pack or battery will be smaller but with the same capacity
Good one Andy, love your work! LFP rules!
In my opinion: Recycle those old LiPo batteries.
Thanks Dave.
I started out that way, but soon went to Lifepo4, never looked bank, even went to Yinlong 66160 LTO, which I adore as the battery for all temperatures
Andy, You might find the Epever SCC cannot program a User setting for any Lithium. Not the SCC solo, need at least an MT50 or RS485 to USB cable and PC. There are issues with Epever Bluetooth and WiFi units (WiFi is only an access point, if it works at all, the Bluetooth cannot program any settings on some SCC’s).
My Tracer 6415AN blew the 2x RJ45 sockets, RS485 not working. Also is stuck on 24v. (Choose AUTO) I removed it from my main Lifepo4 prismatic system, using it on GEL batteries. Ps had eLOG01, MT50 & PC solar station software connected, but when PC used, MT50 was “connecting” so I used to disconnect it. The Victron 100/50 replacement is doing fine.
Thanks Michael. Oh, so many people have recommended the Epever SCC, so It thought I give it a shot. Well, that's not good then. I'll have a look at the settings soon. I thought I bought the model which can be adjusted for any type of cells though🤔
@@OffGridGarageAustralia looks like it can do it. F04 & F08 setting for Lifepo4. Also has N03, NO6 & N07 for Lithium cylinder cells. It still might not program User settings, so have to accept the given, default values.
There are also devices to connect the Modbus RS485 to TCP. Maybe one by Epever. Another, ebox TCP 02 marketed at Epever, by USRiot (Chinese) uses their VCOM software to create a virtual COM port. Epever’s software to USB also creates a virtual COM port; (can have issues, check box RS485 in Device manager if using RS485 to USB) Solar Station software is ok for real time monitoring. Also they have a couple of Apps for phone, WiFi or Bluetooth; it may be possible to get one of the Apps working, at least for monitoring. 3rd party providers have fixed issues that the Epever WiFi has, including normal WiFi connectivity through router. Adam Welch CZcams has videos about the accessories, and sells an improved WiFi box, and or PCB (simple, with available, a standard RS485 to TCP daughter board
Please also do the price comparison of each battery type per kwh. So, we can compare more numerically. Plus also add the remaining live cycles
Make sure you count New old stock and packs given to a person for free.
On the wealthy west maybe not worth to harvest 18650s. I can harvest them for about 50 cents each, so the price difference is still at least 6 fold. On another note: never believe those 280Ah batteries are really has that capacity. You still have to measure them to make sure they work properly. And measuring them takes a lot of time and need a new (not cheap) tool.
I agree , Li-Ion takes a lot of effort to build a battery bank compared to LiFePO4.
What would you use as a replacement for an electric car with a depleted battery pack? Those things get scrapped due to the cost of buying a replacement battery pack but if you could build your own it might be worth it.
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. I agree 100 percent with you on this Andy, I think now days it's just a waste of time and money. Stay with the life4o cells, they are way safer and cheaper and have higher capacity. Keep up the good work and stay safe and charged
Lifepo4 cells are as safe as the application. They can go boom just as bad as lion cells. Test prove allot of times any casualties was from user error.
@@easylawncare I have never seen one go 💥
I still have a kitchen table stacked with 18650's. Was going to be a powerwall. But thinking an electric quad bike or something.
I sold most of mine, only 4000 or more 18650s insane right, 20 KW of them. I just sell them now to fund other projects. My mate in New Zealand usethe block type for his boat battery.
For the front gate project I raccomend to use the Palo cells: it' s much simple and SAFE. Even for the high motor current.
And for the '' fence" i raccomend a 2S 18650 because it' s much simple even to find the bms.
The gate motors will pull only 2.2A altogether for less than 30s, so that's not a problem for the Palo cells at all.
The electric fence needs a bit of a higher voltage due to the fact that the energizer runs on 6V and I need to have a buck converter in between the battery and the energizer. So I thought about using a 4s 18650 setup for that. The Solar cells are 18V when running in their power point. So that would all fit together nicely.
I harvested a few cells a few years ago but I just use them for small DC projects. I use one pack to run small pumps to fill up a watering can or to mix fertilizer. The bigger diy packs scare me. There’s someone in my city that sells Tesla Model S battery modules and while it’s tempting, I’m too scared.
I use new 26650 LFP-cells in SMD-holders for just about everything that can be converted to using such. It would be better to weld tabs on the cells but the SMD-style holders are actually quite good and make it easy to solder fuses etc. between cells.
But you're not building large power walls or so, right? Just for small projects...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia ah, no. Too cold climate for lithium here and cobolt etc. are too "exciting" for critical applications that need to be contributing to safety and reliability.
Agree old cells are dangerous and new batteries are much better to focus on.
Just started my own solar / battery project recently and after doing the research (including watching your videos) I came to the same conclusion - LiFePo is the way to go. Safety and time my biggest considerations. Maybe its time to recycle the old lithium-ion batteries Andy and turn them into new LiFePo's!
Yes, would love you exploring 18650 for gate or fence.
All Tesla cars come with thousands of these cells, from 18650 to 2170, and now 4680. Are they outdated?
I am in 2 minds. I prefer the idea of harvesting and recycling good name brand 18650 cells over new LiFeP04 China cells. Yes I like that the P04 cells are 'safer' for many reasons. Yes I like how they are 'easier' to build large power-wall size packs from. But I dunno, I'm just hooked on the 18650 life. I've used it so far to build a bunch of small 3S and 4S packs for various reasons (kids ride on cars etc) and I'm in the process of building a 14S power-wall out of them. I don't think Li-ion is going away any time soon. There will be many many years to come of harvesting and using them. P04 feels a bit 'new' to me still. If you choose good cells, use a decent charger and BMS, play it smart, 18650 can be fine.
Yes, I have the same thoughts. The 18650s are just to precious to just chuck them out. Maybe at least I give them to someone who will use them...
I think it's a great way to build smaller batteries just for projects
Ya I mostly get my 18650s free but if you are spending money it's hard to justify the price since the labor will be much less with testing and all and assembling them vs new lifepo4 that you just blot together a couple and they are new and should last several times as long and be safter it just makes sense
it is good to see you do this video and share that you think this is old school.
can you do a tool update? like what multi meter (after trying many) you find is best bang for our BUCKS. same with Best battery at THIS point, BMS, Crimper, MC4 connectors, best place to buy wire or cables, best inverter/charger, Mppt.
things change Often and I'm so great you are here to teach us and make mistakes so we can avoid them.
Thank you. Sure, can do...
Andy, it is more than likely the heat destroying the lead acid batteries. Although LFP will be a lot better in the heat, so will lead crystal or Silicon dioxide batteries. They are more expensive than lead acid but cheaper than LFP and can also withstand the heat. Life of a lead crystal is more than 10 yrs..
Ouch, very pricy indeed! More than twice as expensive as AGM and almost 3 times more the LFP. But yeah, good alternative for such applications. Thanks for the tip!
They can also be discharged 100% every single time...
If you going to use 18650 lithium batteries don't go over 10 p and then you can put them in parallel if you want a higher capacity that way they're easy to swap out and don't get as hot charging or discharging and have a BMS setup for each set with fuses and make sure that you put them in a metal enclosure so if you do get thermal runaway it doesn't create a fire just make sure you insulate it very well I like the 26650s lithium iron phosphate they're safer and if they're used your recycling them at least they don't go in the landfill and recycling is real cheap for people that can't afford your big lithium iron phosphate 280 amp hour batteries are too expensive for some of us
Thanks Thomas.
Would love to see you do a side project, for a solar powered battery that can charge my Outlander 😊 Unplugged EV convinced me to buy the Outlander, maybe the offgrid garage can help me figure out the battery I would need 😁 greetings from Belgium, keep up the good work!
That's a big project and involves a lot of batteries, so not a side project any more 😁.
I struggle to recharge the Tesla from my 15kWh battery and drive the same distance as with the PHEV. But I also have other loads connected to it as well, so...
For the PHEV you would probably charge around 9-10kWh for a full charge, so a similar setup as I have right now with 16x 280Ah cells would make a great start.
I am absolutely with you.
yea man! TOTALLY do some other battery projects. i bet most here will find it interesting! oh, and i'd say don't worry about what you do - it is of my humble opinion, people are here to watch you as you are so likeable and seem to be a nice guy. you seem to have a knack for being in front of the camera. you make the videos, we'll continue to watch em!
Working with 18650 cells is a pain in the butt
I would love to see some smaller battery pack builds, main for the portability aspect. 32650 LifePO4 would be the best since they are low cost and readily available.
Yes, I agree, the portability aspect is a good reason for such small cells...
Lithium iron phosphate is cheap? I mean, $4 is good and it's great they're so much cheaper than they used to be, but if you're buying from battery recycling companies you can get 2.2Ah 18650s for as little as 25-50 cents per cell, so at the same price you can get around 16-32Ah, that's still a pretty significant difference.
Although lithium iron phosphate is more forgiving/safer and overall fantastic, it's also worth remembering that we constantly use less safe lithium batteries in almost everything these days, from phones, laptops, cameras, powerbanks, etc... and aside from a few faulty products most of the time they're fairly safe, as long as they're individually fused they're probably fine but for extra safety simply make sure to store them in something fire-resistant and you shouldn't have to worry about it.
I used a Costco (4 year warranty then) car battery and small solar panel for my gate for years! About 2 years ago Wil Prowse told me LFP was the way, I'm dumb, now you're telling me again! Two intelligent, motivated, and curious people I deeply respect, after much research and experimentation came to the same conclusion! Another smart fellow told me about LTO, Lithium Titanate, I think it's an even safer chemistry with greater operating temperature range but much lower power density. Don't know about cost. Curious? Your car 18650, NCMA?
LTO is probably a bit over the top for a solar gate due to the higher costs. The cheap LFP from PALO should be very good for this application.
The Tesla Model 3 has 2170 cell, yes, NMC chemistry.
110421/1218h PST 🇺🇸 110521/0518h Brisbane 🇦🇺 Guten tag…Thanks for the thoughts on 18650s. Once upon a time those cells made a big headlines for enthusiasts. All my Maglite torches (flashlights) are powered with it (18650s and 28650s) and they work very well. But, as you aptly said, at the advent of LiFePo4s, the former went into oblivion.
But since, 18650s stocks are at hand and once assembled to the required power and they’d be far from house structure; why not utilize their power? Food for thought. Best wishes and have a good day, ahead. 73s…
Addendum to the above: I forgot to add an additional thought on Building 18650s. I have come across many many great people soldering those cells with giant soldering irons. I’m sure, you’d spot weld the Series parallel configuration, with adequate fuses at required circuit. 18650s , still have a great punch. Cheers und 73s…
Digging in the trash for failed batteries that are know to burst into flames is like digging through an ash tray to find half smoked cigarettes!
I would agree using 18650 cells in a powerwall format is obsolete and the prismatic larger cells are currently best suited. However it still has a function for other applications where smaller Ah is required for example you gate motor or your pony electric fence. Thus applications that requires smaller than 50Ah can still use the cylindrical format.
Keep up the good work.
btw - your planned battery setup allows for 3 sets of 14,3kWh ~ 45kWh, this is a healthy backup capacity. Quick calculation would indicate that optimal inverter size would be 15kW, and PV of 15kWp.
A lot of the purpose in using the used 18650s is to keep them out of the landfill. They are still good fpr little things if for no other reason.
By the way, what camera do you use? The picture is fantastic!
I know, that's why I recycle them as well and try to make use out of the cells. They should really go to recycling and not landfill.
I'm using a GoPro Hero8 for most of my filming, 1080p with 60fps and auto settings. It's very handy, small, easy to use and setup and fits in all gabs everywhere to get cool shots. One button turns it on and starts the recording, click again and it turns off again. I really don't have much time to setup cameras with different lenses, microphones and other equipment. Quick and dirty 😀 Thanks for the feedback.
The solar car charging would be even more efficient if you could DC-charge the car directly from 300-400V PPTs, bypassing the inverter and on-board charger losses :)
Pretty lethal also
@@gzcwnk Not much more so than playing around with 240VAC. Proper HVDC chargers must have GFCI or equivalent functionality too.
If you like to waste a lot of time. In your situation. I replaced a 18650 from a old dead cell powerbank and put one in a motion solar mini security light that the battery was not charging. It works now i guess hope it goes well because you should use a solar 18650 type you buy at walmart online. Got to use a big butane torch soldering tip attached for that project.
Id like to put this out their.. lithium chemical reaction is a reaction that can happen in both cell types and others. But here is the thing in any type battery all it takes is a mistake in both type cells. All should be fuse both lifepo4 or lion and if you don't that's a first screw up. What I'm saying is be safe don't just follow others always. Pick a chemistry and learn it from one side to the other and put safety first always I have learned on lion and lifepo4 fuse fuse fuse it is a must new or not new doesn't matter I still fully test fuse and test ir camera 🤳 on both. I found lifepo4s to be harder to keep balance due to their voltage dropping issues in comparison to lion staying much more balanced easier. Again it's just what you learn and stick with I think. You can get a large number of cycles out of both but treat either chemistries like crap CYCLING to low or to high your asking for it anyway. I have a rule of thumb. Find your power usage on the normal for a day and times by 4 and your good to go.
Build low kw hour banks and you will get less life when your trying to pull 5kw out and you got a 2.5kw bank.. basically it comes down to planning and be prepared to add more batteries. Be ready to ditch the big old ac units and upgrade to mini splits or something. Their is just so many varieties of setups so on chemistry maybe for on and not the other. A lifepo4 is still considered very high considering by kwh. Lion you can get pretty cheap per kWh and that's due to all the new coming people driving lifepo4 prices up due how easy it is. Lion is as safe as you can make it and so is lifepo4 . Building very big packs of lifepo4 packs would have cost me over 46k and I'm in my 60kwh and inverters 3 mid classics for less then 12k with 300w 50 panels.
See problem new comers don't have time and help drive prices up because of complexity and lack of know how. I don't mean to be sharp about this but in a nutshell this is why sellers look for people's not wanting to put the work in to get more for less and save the planet some more along the way. Half you guys don't know what your getting from China anyways. Used cells that look new and you just feel better to pay higher price all because lifepo4 is safer and new new new. I like it to because you all help me get more kWh for less money(lion). I have tested and whomped many lifepo4 cells with straight lion cells with the correct configuration is key 🗝️.
I'm trying to stay neutral here.
I use both and unless my batts where going on a ventilator I'm using old stock cells or ev cells to help the planet so I know I get the value my dollar spent is worth. Remember all technology tomorrow is tomorrow so really who care use the crap right and your good.
I have about 15Kwh of 18650 cells (7S 24 volts packs). Charge them up to 4 volts maximum and the charge current is 0,25A max per cell. I know the chemistry is less safe than LiFePo4, at least that's what they say. Would be nice if there's a way to combine them with LiFePo4.
the thing is LFE cells would cost me money, Li-ion is completely free because I get them from work. So I can build batteries to my hearts content. but for you if you already have the batteries then build the most reliable battery you can with what you have.
I can harvest about 15 laptop packs an hour, that equals about 90 cells per hour. Compare that to an hourly wage, and it makes a lot of sense. Massive battery packs have the advantage of putting very small loads on the individual cells, so it's not critical to perfectly match capacities.
Harvesting is not the problem, I guess. Testing, sorting, soldering, mounting, grouping, fixing, wiring... there are your hours and...not worried about creating a fire hazard? Not to mention that such a battery will completely void any insurance cover.
Power wall? Not unless you enjoy it! If you like it, it's priceless.
Small projects less than 100ah, absolutely 18650. I have a lot of small projects running 100-200 ah of free 18650 cells. How ya gonna beat free?
hi, i bein following you channel for about a year, and i get you point. But that make completely sense there in Australia, I'm in Argentina and prices and aviability is completely different. So if you what to teach or share you knolish with projects than maybe are not the best fit for you but for many of us do.... that will be great and much appreciated, but if you what do do videos of what you are doing for you and share just that i understand. I don't gonna unsubscribe to you, you channel teach me a lot any way
Thank you Martin. That makes perfectly sense. Some countries cannot get the LFP cells easily, have very high shipping or custom costs or it is even impossible.
I will definitely do some projects then if it benefits others. Thanks for your feedback.
I would love to see you make a battery out of those large blue 7500mah cells :) I have a few projects that might work well with those smaller 12v or 24v packs.
I keep them for the lawn mower project...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia really. Do they have enough usable capacity?
@@NaughtyGoatFarm yeah, they would be suitable. Bought an Ozito cordless push mower on the weekend. It has a 2x18V 4Ah battery. That's good for 40min of mowing. They claim 50min. We will see...
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I think we have the same mower. It works well. Ours takes 4 x 18v batteries.
Those 18650 seems like a lot of monkeying around.much better choices now a days
Even Average Joe is swapping over!
Maybe a shopping list with links please :)
That's very difficult. I have all equipment on my website with links. A shopping list would be only for one particular person and this particular project.
Hey Andy, why not use those 37500 or something like that, for the balancer tests and so forth
They are Li-ion cells so will act totally differently to our LiFePO4 cells.
andy have you though about running your both gates on your 50v solar system and have the buck converter's on the gate side, but it will require digging conduit and cable's, the Real Question is are you charged and up for the challenge :)
The gate is 200m away from the garage, that won't work at all...
thats about the stupidest idea on these comments ! how bout grab a brain for a challenge ?
18650s make great torch, Flashlight & headlamp batteries! Otherwise they could be a useful substitute for fireworks on 4th of July. For power walls I'd rather spend my time earning money and buy large cells.
THOUGHTS:
-Some simply do not have the $$$ to buy LiFePo4 cells.
-I agree that it is dangerous if NOT done properly.
-I agree that using different cell manufacturers in a pack is more risky
-I think that you CAN build a small 18650 pack using cells that are the same capacity AND from the same manufacturer.
-A small pack in NOT the same as a powerwall.
This being said I WOULD use your set of pouch cells for your project. You have the equipment already purchased. It's a pack... NOT a powerwall. They are all relatively the same capacity and from the same manufacturer. I would suggest to upgrade the BMS for something 'not dumb'. The chemistry is more volatile as you said... why have a cheap BMS to manage the pack?!?.
My main system is a LiFePO4 based for a critical loads panel in my house and I have a bunch of smaller packs (Flood lights, small backup for my modem router, portable battery....) that use 18650's all from the same source. They are all same brand and same capacity from scooters and each pack has a JBD BMS with bluetooth so I can babysit them.
I build Bluetooth speakers and use 18650 cells to build battery packs to power them . I've found you can use 3x5" card holder plastic boxes for a battery box. I do have a solar generator with 18650 batteries. It is 316ah battery in a 7s120p configuration so 840 total cells..
use the palo cells easy and safe
You Can buy cheap hoverboards it contains 20 pieces of 18650 cells and you get 2 motors and so on :)