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HUGE USAF Anti-Ship Attack vs Russia's Black Sea Fleet (WarGames 104A) | DCS
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- čas přidán 25. 07. 2024
- We use DCS World to simulate the effect of a large USAF aerial anti-ship strike on the Russian Black Sea naval fleet. The strike includes F-22 Raptor, F-35 Lighting II and F-16 Falcon with AGM-158C LRASM missiles. Russia defends with Su-35 Flanker and Su-57 Felon.
PATREON: / grimreapers
0:00 Overview
0:34 Black Sea Fleet Constitution
3:07 Fighting Ship Details
4:34 Battle Details
13:07 FIGHT!
Karakurt & Gorshkov Mods: forum.dcs.world/topic/314635-...
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#WarGames #GRWarGames #F22 #Raptor #ukrainerussia #F35 #F16 #AGM158C #LRASM #Su35 #Su57 #Felon #BlackSeaFleet #DCSQuestioned #GR #DCSWorld #Aviation #AviationGaming #FlightSimulators #Military
Ukraine-Russia Series:
Rus SEAD vs Modernized Patriot: czcams.com/video/FdoyfKgaONE/video.html
Rus Bombers vs Modernized Patriot: czcams.com/video/4Y961tLNE18/video.html
JDAM vs S-400 Network: czcams.com/video/wP4sfDG-01E/video.html
Kinzhal vs Pac-3 & IRIS-T: czcams.com/video/i0GzbajI0mU/video.html
F16 or Gripen for Ukraine?: czcams.com/video/Y-k71nfap4Q/video.html
Mig-31 vs NATO Black Sea AWACS: czcams.com/video/vFOzjW25ItI/video.html
R-37M Long Range Shootdown: czcams.com/video/-3LKGL4w9Q4/video.html
Drone Swarm vs NATO Defense: czcams.com/video/wDBOSd9qCDs/video.html
Patrio PAC-3/IRIS-T vs Missiles: czcams.com/video/N5Z81iW8YNY/video.html
MANPAD/IRIS-T vs Russian Missiles: czcams.com/video/N9R9GUVcTyk/video.html
AGM-158C LRASM vs Sevastopol: czcams.com/video/GDZoDRhIIRw/video.html
A-10s Operating in S-400 Nets: czcams.com/video/5BwFlesg42o/video.html
Modernized Su-27 vs Su-35: czcams.com/video/7llLDzeT2Bs/video.html
Modernized F15/F16 vs Su-35: czcams.com/video/-TozTHbAXVs/video.html
Can Su-57 Defend Russia From F-22/35: czcams.com/video/E-oC3NgxC94/video.html
IMPROVED Stealth vs Russian Bombers: czcams.com/video/IgwLW4YKvVU/video.html
Ukraine Using Hellfire Missile?: czcams.com/video/s_1YHDTmPPw/video.html
US Harpoons vs Russian Navy: czcams.com/video/Oiee83CWRcE/video.html
Ukraine Using APKWS?: czcams.com/video/FBxV9YuAfaw/video.html
Ukraine US HARMs vs Russian S-400: czcams.com/video/eSyEOXsjWo8/video.html
Patriot/NASAMS vs Supersonic Missiles: czcams.com/video/i1q7uDeinA4/video.html
Fulcrum/Flanker vs Foxbat/Super Flanker: czcams.com/video/BhXfxc94JAU/video.html
NASAMS vs Russian Cruise Missiles: czcams.com/video/pJI_b95jzpk/video.html
Russian KH-47M2 vs Polish Air Force: czcams.com/video/cnrVxqL5q9w/video.html
Su-27 & Drone vs Snake Island: czcams.com/video/T_oRoU2Ayfo/video.html
Su-25s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: czcams.com/video/ryV65bUJzrw/video.html
NATO Eurofighters vs Crimean AWACS: czcams.com/video/EiJ2dFRh95g/video.html
Patriot, Gepard & Gripen vs KH-65: czcams.com/video/ZhxdrNjig1g/video.html
A-10s vs Russian Convoy At Kyiv: czcams.com/video/B0tZoo0uLh4/video.html
USN Tomahawk Strike Kerch Bridge: czcams.com/video/0vpi8xBygV8/video.html
USAF Stealth Strike Kerch Bridge: czcams.com/video/IJbf9Bcxnw0/video.html
Ukrainian Jets Strike Kerch Bridge: czcams.com/video/I8FumuZReB4/video.html
F-22 Raptors vs Russian Fighters: czcams.com/video/ComRcmrwJWk/video.html
Raptor/Eagle vs Super Flanker: czcams.com/video/keqYmuSEo-8/video.html
USAF Bombers vs Mariupol Defenses: czcams.com/video/aCsboOG0QU4/video.html
Ukraine Bombs Snake Island: czcams.com/video/BX696MKdkb8/video.html
Stealth Fighters vs Russian Bombers: czcams.com/video/rym90jnQDsA/video.html
Sinking Of Moskva #3: czcams.com/video/NIjoyIieOzY/video.html
Sinking Of Moskva #2: czcams.com/video/snjfbj_EwW4/video.html
Sinking Of Moskva #1: czcams.com/video/Bxwh6MGLJNc/video.html
Russia Nukes Britain: czcams.com/video/rzk45RFQwA8/video.html
Ukraine Uses Danish F-16s: czcams.com/video/17Pikrp0QaY/video.html
Ukraine Uses Polish Mig-29s: czcams.com/video/zCi4tAIzuOU/video.html
Russian-Britain Missile Attack: czcams.com/video/zwIGfabvzHA/video.html
Ghost Of Kyiv: czcams.com/video/Yrct8V4n1-U/video.html
Belgorod Raid: czcams.com/video/mQykTxt6ftw/video.html
Eurofighter/Fulcrum vs Super Flanker: czcams.com/video/MPyIipEhgR0/video.html
US Strike vs Odessa czcams.com/video/KeiOHgzic6Y/video.html
Russian Helo Rocket Lob: czcams.com/video/118GgGnP_sM/video.html
Russian Su-25 vs US Patriot SAM: czcams.com/video/asp69ZD_tO0/video.html
Understanding Russian SAMs: czcams.com/video/R4xTxLNZXcw/video.html
Ukrainian Jets Road Operations: czcams.com/video/hBpzQhinPbw/video.html
Russian 40 Mile Convoy: czcams.com/video/Vr_-2FLblBk/video.html
Flanker vs Super Flanker: czcams.com/video/VOAuOFLJGk4/video.html
What USA army want in Black Sea?
Remember those iranian speedboats? can they converted to act like those Ukrainian Unmanned boats? low RCS, 80kph top speed, 40knots, 250-400lbs warhead? The Ukrainians say they cost about 250k USD each.
How many of those would be needed to take out the Black Sea fleet?
It all seems mostly realistic, except you left out the nuclear counter-strike. Every time you launch an LRASM at the Russian fleet, you have to also launch a Poseidon at DC and London, to make it realistic.
Did you know the Russian Navy just took possession of the first production run of Poseidon torpedoes? Those will go on the Belgorod subs, the largest subs in the world, which are already at sea. Those likely have a 200 megaton warhead, from what I've read, which will generate a 500 meter high tsunami, covering thousands of miles of coastline, coming dozens of miles inland, entombing every bunker in their wake, and they may very well be salted warheads too, rendering the flooded region uninhabitable for decades or even centuries. Can a mod be made for the Belgorod, I wonder?
Russia is not China. The difference is in the nuclear arsenal. You only get one war, Cap, and it's going to have to be with China. That's probably better, really, considering how much farther away it is from Europe.
@@Gabriel_McMillan And yet Harpoons and Neptunes will be launched against said fleet in real life and some time this year Boeing/SAAB Small Diameter bombs will likely make their debut, blowing up S-400 radars and ammo depots 100km behind the Russian lines.
P.S. I saw Prof. Clarke on Sky News yesterday, where he was arguing that the Ukrainians had been using HARM missiles to counter the Pantsir systems that were defending supply depots against the HIMARS.
I would be shocked if the LRASM missiles couldn't communicate with each other and at the very least assign an equal number of missiles to each ship to spread out the damage. You would also think it would be possible for F-35 pilots to assign targets to the LRASM as they neared the fleet.
that's exactly what i was thinking. If the LRASM's communicate with each other would that make target designation easy or at least extremely possible?
Agree, but this is DCS. ED keeps it stuck in the late '80s.
They can and do.
Well, of course it can. It does other things good too.
For example, it can be fired from at least a range of 200 miles (Probably much more) and then the pilot can just leave the area, no need for locking or assigning targets. You can tell the missile you're looking for X target where X is whatever ship, and it will seek to destroy that ship using AI to detect multiple different aspects about the ship and compare it to its database of information to ensure a proper kill on an intended target even if the waters are filled with civilians.
If the AI is feeling lazy that day, the missile can be remotely controlled via datalink.
In a group of them, each missile communicates through low power signal transmission with each other. So, say you assign a primary target and then have all the other missiles seeking any tertiary targets, and if there are none, they can be harmlessly destroyed.
The missile is also equipped with sensors to detect the terrain around it with extreme precision, and it compares that data to its database in order to fly efficiently, accurately, and seek targets with battlefield awareness which surpasses the capabilities of human motor control and reflexes.
It's also outdated technology and it hasn't even seen combat. Ten year old war technology with fewer kills than a DJI Mavic.
They can do that and as I understand will also arrange themselves to all come in from different angles at the same time. No idea if jamming can stop them doing that but of course if you were jamming a bunch then you might also limit your ability to target them at the same time.
There are reports out there that the crew of the Moskva was using ADS-B to monitor air traffic as their equipment was so unreliable. These type of scenarios are fun but something tells me you could safely take 50% of advertised capability off the top in a real engagement.
Another great vid as usual!
If that's true... that's even more embarrasing than the lame TB2 distraction story, haha
@@mastur_grunt4244 Lazerpig did a video called "what sunk the moskva" and he cites a maintenance report of the ship from only a couple weeks before the invasion started where it shows just how embarrassing the condition of their flagship really was
@@Mad.Spartan That will also be true of much of the Russian forces
The Moskva WAS on high alert.
It was recently retrofitted with Russia's best radar and antimissile systems.
Taken out with 2 cheap Neptune missiles.
But, this is DCS.
It is better to assume the worst (being Russia at 100% efficiency) and prepare accordingly than to assume them being weaker and being wrong.
That way if anything was to happen you are prepared for what the Russians could even hope to throw your way and if they do happen to be badly maintained then they would be obliterated.
It's funny because the setup for this scenario is the exact opposite of what would be done in reality. SEAD with stealth platforms and standoff munitions reducing or eliminating enemy air defence, then allow fourth gen fighters and ground attack aircraft to enter the theater. F-16's wouldn't be sent headlong into certain death against known SAM positions.
SEAD and EW are completely ignored in these. They are "secret" so not modeled. Compass Call, Growlers,, towed decoys, there are all manner of things ignored.
What do you think , would Americans be able to even start flying from Bulgaria and Romania without being reported to Russians by local population?
@@uroskostic8570 Yeah.
@@uroskostic8570look up desert storm….
It doesn’t matter if the small number of Russian agents report US aircraft flying if the aircraft fly repeatedly in their airspace at a massive scale while doing absolutely nothing. Then after some amount of predetermined time, all those sorties converge and cross over into Russian airspace while ideally the Russian personnel are relatively in a “low” readiness state and thus enough of the element of surprise is achieved
I think a full stealth attack would have been noticed way later, so they would scramble way later
I think it would be detected earlier. L-band radars can detect stealth aircraft at standard ranges.
@@mattseller148 A stealth fighter can get identified at standard engagement ranges with an L-band radar, once identified, aircraft can than be mobilized for an interception.
Stealth aircraft have a far lesser effect on low band radar than high band radars.
@@mattseller148 Once again, stealth aircraft are very visible on lower band radars. They can be ID based on the radar signature they are outputting. They can only be targeted and locked from close range, they can be detected from a lot farther away.
@@mattseller148 It looks like we are. I agree with your statement about only being able to target them at very close range I disagreed with the statement that the detection time would be lower, when low band radars can detect an aircraft from greater ranges.
What you think is not facts though just based on your feelings really 😂. Stealth is not an invisibility cloaking device. They can be detected even by old radar. The Syrian shot and damaged the rear end of an Israeli f-35 this made the News they tried to say it was a bird collision.
I think in such a strike a lot of decoys and at least some bombers would be involved to consume as many defense missile as possible and overwhelm their defenses more easily. Also i think F-15s and Eurofighters would be used rather than F-16 due to their range (they were missing their fuel tanks as well so It wasnt surprising seeing them running out so early). Lastly i guess using vsn f 16 also messed with the ai and a Sead Escort would certainly be used
I was wondering about the lack of decoys as well.
Numerical limits on unit amounts.
@@Davros-vi4qg you can make bigger strikes in dcs, look at their csg vs csg stuff
F16 has far superior range to a Eurofighter I'm pretty sure
Spot on about decoys, they would play large role as would super hornets
When you see those two planes in a Grim Reapers video, you know this is gonna be epic.
Like others mention, I'd really like to see some attempt to simulate the use of air decoys. If DCS does not have those, could the answer be as simple as using real aircraft since the decoys themselves simulate aircraft?
They would need to organize an event with actual players controlling the opposing side if they wanted to do that. Obviously decoys can’t really work with AI, though, at least not realistically.
Loving your work Cap. Appreciate the effort it takes to create this content.
thx
There was absolutely no point to the non stealth escorts, all it did was alert the Russians to their presence, if stealth AShM planes are used then stealth escorts would be used. I find it hilarious that you think a NATO air force would just sacrifice it's aircraft and pilots for no tactical gain.
They're set up as drones..... They're bots lmao
Reapers always rig things to be hard for Blue. If what they're doing isn't hard, they just add more adversary assets till it is. They don't try to be real or to realistically simulate real world stuff. That's why the blue force is not great, red have fighters & SAMs everywhere etc. Also, DCS can't stimulate EW & all of its modeling is based on open source data...
Actually…there is a point to non-stealth escorts - SEAD.
Realistically, an operation like this - the sinkng of the entire Black Sea Fleet - would be an opening move in a much larger overall offensive. Because said S400 sites not only bolster the fleet’s defenses against cruise/ballistic missile attacks, but also defend the general region from the same, they would need to be dealt with. Otherwise, it’d be difficult to maintain air superiority for ground-attack assets, like A-10s and Apaches.
@@blademaster2390 SEAD aircraft that are non stealth wouldn’t fly next to stealthy aircraft, it just alerts the enemy that an attack is happening from that direction, a sead attack would be from a different vector
Someone’s mad
I am always amazed when I discuss fighters on defence forums how many 'experts' aren't aware how short legged these aircraft are.
DCS demonstrates this well.
I guess they think aerial refueling is just for show lol
@@BaldHeadedManc Yes. It is all very interesting.
It's all a matter of perspective, cruising at m.7 at 35k asl, yes they all have a lot of range, but full afterburner down on the deck and that range decreases exponentially.
Afterburners and denser air.
@@92HazelMocha Yes I hear ya. 🙂
Brilliant video as always cap! The amount of effort that goes into your videos is truly amazing, from the research, finding the nearest thing in game, setting it up, trial runs, editing, the knowledge you have is insane
With the available media sources that I've been able to find, Russia has between 7 & 12 ships left in their Black Sea Fleet. Twelve ships being the Russian number given.
It would be interesting to see how a combined ADM-160C MALD-J and AGM-88G HARM-ER Strike would work in this senario. I think a modernised compliment of Air to Ground Munitions roster (other than your wonderful JSSM/LRASM work) would go a long way to aiding GR in these 2020's simulations. Either way, I really appreciate the hard work that goes into these. Cheers, Cap!
I think that you didn't even give the 16s Tanks, that's why they ran out of fuel so fast
To help simulate a better deconfliction try splitting the anti-ship force into multiple blobs coming in on different vectors. A blob coming from the NW will choose different ships compared to a blob coming from the SW. Or at least we could expect less duplication.
And/or dog-leg the LRASMs so they have different approach vectors. With a little math, you can also use this method to create a simultaneous TOT for the salvos.
@@guyincognito3085 exactly, I like the dog-leg approach too
300k subs!!! Congrats! Love watching you guys play. I'd love to have a set-up to play DCS, but alas, I've already got too many toys. . . ;)
Hey Cap, I know it’s a lot of work great effort. Can I make a couple suggestions?
I agree the Raptors should go in 20 miles ahead of the Vipers. I also think some Eagles should’ve been used to carry additional bar missiles to support the Raptors.
Would a wild weasel mission be effective in the operation as well?
Perhaps try using the Vipers to get in the SAM net, wait for a missile to be fired, the turn cold and go back out range. I think in conjunction with the wild weasel you’ll be able to use up the S400 SAMs with fewer losses to USAF.
With the S400s used up it then allows for the Vipers and Eagle EX to get in and support the Raptors in achieving air dominance especially if pulling all Russian resources to the north while the Lighting anti ship comes from the west.
Perhaps after the Lightings have fired the LRASMs then squadrons of Eagle E and Vipers with the laser guided bombs at medium altitude can cleanup what the anti ships leave behind.
Thanks again.
It'd be baller to see that, but it'd probably be too intensive to run
Thanks for all the long hours Cap and for the GR's for putting on such a great show!!!! Love the commitment and work you all do!!!
Just discovered your channel and loving it! Keep up the good work!
Love your vids cap they make me smile to see how well people can create missions for dcs :)
Hey cap... Excellent work as always! But I think it's time you start to do more integrated warfare, have both airforce and naval assets of a country working together.... I know that this will be twice as hard and would require a lot more planning ..... But this type of integrated warfare is the future of warfare and I think it's also the content for the future of this channel.... All the best🥰😍
TALDs!
Russians don't seem to do integrated warfare, the Russian AF have been shot down by Russain Army air defense missiles, there is a good chance that the Russian Navy will have a hard time de-conflicting since all of the Navy radars are from before the Russian aircraft were built.
Seems pretty realistic, except you left out the nuclear counter-strike. Every time you launch an LRASM at the Russian fleet, you have to also launch a Poseidon at DC and London, to make it realistic. Russia is not China. The difference is in the nuclear arsenal.
@@Gabriel_McMillan What's to keep the LRASM's from being launched from Ukrainian SU-24's and SU-27's or from ground based mobile launchers or from Low RCS unmanned surface warfare vessels?
@@Gabriel_McMillan agreed, but also factor in the entire history of Russian diligence when it comes to maintenance, planning, training, etc. So the nukes would go out, but maybe the London-bound missile lands in Belarus for unspecified reasons.
Stealth air superiority configurations as a forward skirmish line to remove the majority of air to air threat, once ordinance depleted withdraw and have F16s with jamming capabilities for a wild weasel line to deplete enemy ordnance, LRASM delivery platforms then should be within range to deploy.
Yes
What happened to using drones as missile targets? I remember you and Kortana doing that vs the S400.
excited for the future of grim reapers and the campaign mode idea sounds great!!
Another fun and exciting battle. - Another thing you can do to make it realistic is include some Wild Weasels/HARM attacks. I would expect that to be one of the first tactic happening at the beginning of an Air Campaign.
Great job on all the detail Cap! Awesome job on the same reapers!
Would love to see a flight of F-15 E’s come in after the LOASMs just to finish off the stragglers.
Long time watcher/subscriber. Love the content Cap. Cheers
Simba, the people's champ 🏆 💪
Awesome awesome awesome work! Love these battles! Just a friendly suggestion, maybe try these missions like the military would and not lose any air frames? Especially the stealths. Keep up the great work guys!
Or even try to plan a defense from a Russian revenge attack without the planes lost from USAF? Maybe see if the USN can take over the Black Sea now less the Russian forces KIA?
Realistically, US doctrine is to *not* do suicide missions (unless vital to defending the homeland). Therefore, any tactic that relies on sacrificing airframes is, by definition, unrealistic.
I found this one very interesting and fun. Cool. I loved the strategic aspect.
It’d be interesting to see if the whole uk fleet can defend against a massive attack from Russian fleet and air assets w defending air assets to boot and all, it’d be interesting
Just attack during a rainstom you could do with half the missiles!
LOL
Too soon?
Wasn't the rainstorm theory debunked? In any case, an attacking fleet is bound to be more alert than guys who though nothing could touch them.
I enjoyed that. Thanks GR.
Love your videos. Love hearing you guys talk. Love yall
Why wouldn’t you do a full stealth attack? The F-16s telegraph that something is coming. With a full stealth attack they would have a huge surprise advantage
It's not really a surprise attack, it's a juicy target in the middle of the world's most active warzone. You're not going to surprise people who are actively looking for an attack, especially since the moskva became a submarine. Also the Russian AWACS can still see the incoming aircraft.
Technically, (I know cap said no subs) but, the US would have sent their subs In after the air engagement and then surprised them. But, here we are!
@@92HazelMocha There’s a difference between a strategic and tactical surprise attack. On the strategic level, of course an attack will always be expected on a valuable target like that, just like you said.
But on a tactical level surprise is of course possible. Giving your enemy as little time as possible to run the OODA loop is the name of the game in modern warfare (especially naval warfare) and having an all-stealth approach would absolutely do that. I’m surprised they chose to send the Vipers in first, since it seems pretty obvious to me how and why 5th gens go first.
@@jonathanpfeffer3716 The US also has a habit of using lots of decoys and jammers to sow confusion (and waste defending missiles and ammo) during it's large-scale attacks.
I would love to see this again but swap the 16s with 15s or something capable of carrying the American decoy missiles and send those in a couple staggered waves to soak up a lot of the initial S400 and Su-35 missiles. All in all a fantastic video🎉
the SU-35 is a very capable fighter, no wonder iran was willing to supply thousands of drones and missiles to Russia for just 24 SU-35(and some helicopters and air defense systems), great video as always cap.
Too bad the plane will be shit by the time russia is done cobbling them together in their slumsweatshops.
I believe it’s the best non stealth fighter with the large load large speed and acceleration and warfare and super maneuverability, it’s so great that China bought about over 20 over them just to copy their engines and their engine thrust vectoring for their new 5th gem fighter J20
You act as if Iran is the one taking the loss....fuck no. Iran would be an absolute idiot to not take that deal. Those cheap ass drones they gave them, even in the numbers they did, doesn't come close to the price of the SU35's. Russia got slapped in the face because they were desperate. I'd love to see the terms Russia gave Iran on those jets...like is it a "We will deliver immediately?" or is it "We will deliver as soon as we deem our country is safe" and will never deliver or take 40 years to deliver? What's Iran going to do to Russia if they don't deliver?
Yep, the chance of a single Su35 getting built at present = 0
Davros you are dumb, Russia is actively building dozens of su 35s. 🤣 Russia makes all of its own parts and processors and chips. You need to stop believing the lying media. You really think Russia can have twice as many successful space launches alone than the entire rest of the world and also have the most advanced nuclear technology and hypersonic technology but suddenly cannot build su 35s or main battle tanks because of "sanctions"? 🤣
I need to jump back on to get in on these missions. They look hella fun
I love watching you guys learn how to run a sim. Looking forward to the next version when programming is more lifelike.
Congrats on 300k!!!
thx
Pre-battle comment (the US could annihilate them for all I know, but my points stand).
1. Any USAF attack would use the USAF bomber force (B-2/B-1B/B-52 outside of the threat range or behind fighter cover) and keep most/all F-35s in full stealth as it is one of the critical advantages on the battlefield. I'm guessing they would use F-35 in stealth and then use F-15/F-16/F-22 for additional fighter cover, F-16 for SEAD and wild wease;. and then F-15E to carry additional anti-ship missiles if needed (to compliment the bomber squadron). This is my best guess.
2. What was the concept behind Russian ships having radar that is apparently (per the description/introduction) the best in DCS and able to detect stealth missiles better than Chinese/US ships? The US is currently in the process of deploying the new SPY-6 AESA radar on Flight III Burkes and multiple Flight IIA Burkes have been selected for retrofitting the new radar onto them. But despite this new radar, I'm fairly certain Russia doesn't have a more powerful or more effective radar than the US/China/most NATO countries.
I love the scenario of course. However, this feels a little bit like the Russians were artficially inflated to make the battle more interesting. I'm all for that if this is true to some extent, but I'd rather just be told that if that's indeed the case. Please note this is the internet, and I type alll of this with a smile and my arms wide open for a hug. This is not hatred, just feedback and my opinion. Thank you as always Cap and Co!
Also, the US knows the status of the Black Sea fleet just about as well as Russia does (I've seen the historic flight patterns for ISR assets and read reports of US intelligence alerting Ukraine of all sorts of data). They would design an attack mission and launch only if they were very confident in absolutely overwheling the enemy force.
Edit now that I'm watching it.
- 5% PK of AIM-120D? 38 missiles, 2 hits? Near 50% for R-77?
- Where's the Ukrainian SAM system?
My reply on real-life ASM deconfliction. I'd bet on my own life the real-life coding of anti-ship missile software outperforms DCS coding by many orders of magnitude. They are datalinked between the missiles and back to the fire control systems that fired/launched them. They have infrared terminal guidance which should be programmed to recognize a ship being hit (massive infrared spike in intensity upon impact), and they have AI-assisted databases with the profile of potential enemy ships to identify their target (and select their target) prior to impact.
I'm confident you have tried everything possible with DCS deconfliction. I believe the best and easiest workaround for war games purposes: add ASM hits to the ships, and allow a maximum of two missile hits per ship. So, for example, if you have the scoreboard count 64 LRASM hits against 32 ships and there were a bunch of LRASMs which failed to deconflict and say up to 5-8 hit the same dead target, attribute two LRASM hits for each kill and assume real-world deconfliction would work based on the hundreds of millions worth of development they had. So, 64 LRASM hits on 32 targetted ships = 2 hits attriuted to each ship, all 32 ships counted as eliminated.
Yes, there is no reason to use F35s to deliver ordinance and blow their stealth capability.
LOL, the notion that the Russians have even 4 air-worthy Su-57s is a fantasy.
2) well it's interesting, CH programmed the ships and decided the 2015+ ship radars will be good enough to track the LRASM etc. Is that realistic? No one knows, so I say let's roll with it and see where it ends.
@@grimreapers I love CH for the work he has done, but things have to be applied consistently if making such decisions. For example, the "2025/2030" US CSG would have the SPY-6 radars which is new as of 2022.
Similarly, all US (and NATO) destroyers to the best of my knowledge have chaff/decoy/countermeasure systems, yet the Chinese 055 appears to be the only ship being given credit for such systems via the work-around "short-range SAM" implementation. I didn't review the video or anything, but it appeared those countermeasures had 100% PK in addition to a range of something like one mile? I'd say emulation of chaff would be more realistic with an even shorter range of a few hundred meters at best (as small a radius as possible given the highest velocity possible, as emulating chaff via this method would ideally be mach 20 with zero spool/ignition time and a range of 20 meters above the ship) and adjusted to a PK of no greater than 75% as a decent guess on the effectiveness of ship countermeasures.
I'm certainly not saying just take my word estimates as the way it should be, as with virtually any topic like this, it's probably best to gather the thoughts of multiple individuals who follow this sort of technology and international miliatires. Thanks Cap.
The Official Simba Fan Club (TOSFC) all cheered when the F-35's launched. The taste of blood was palpable from the fight to the north - lots of brave pilots - including the Peoples Champion SIMBA! Excellent flying from the GR team and really loved the idea they had a proper fight against more enemies! Valued viewers these large combined arms engagements are complicated in F10 view but require a special mindset to be able to actually fly, fight and win in the virtual cockpit. 10/10 would watch simba dodge and smash felons all day.
He did fly exceptionally well today. Cannonball too.
3:47 literally having a stroke listening to your reactions of what is happening in the battlespace😂🤣
Cap, First off. Great Video, I always love the one's that involve the ships like this. I was wondering though while watching, How many Potential human lives would be lost from the ships being destroyed like that. Is there some way you can program that into you counting script to get an idea?
Hearing CAP hyperventilate almost as epic as the battle itself. Well done boys and girls.
Love these big battles! Would it be possible to integrate a SEAD element (TALDs perhaps) and give the F-16s tanks?
F16 with no bags just seems stupid to me , it drinks fuel like crazy
You should do this battle again, I really enjoyed it a lot
really nice work there cap. just love the boom boom.
just a thought.. can you mod the program so when a ship is hit and killed, it is removed from the screen?? that way maybe some deconfliction issues may be reduced.
Interesting, that should mean that Type 055 and the SPY-6 should be able to detect lrasm at similar ranges then.
Yes I am worried about this. a lot.
@@grimreapers well don't worry if you can't get it to work I understand you guys are trying your best with core game limitations. DCS is more suited to modeling Chinese or Russian missiles which tend to rely on more brute force to succeed while lrasm is more of a smart weapon. For example a pair of lrasms may decide to attack from different vectors against the Russian Corvette whose panstir ciws can only attack one vector at a time meaning that one will get through and kill it. Or maybe it will target a Type 055's radar array stopping it from intercepting further missiles, or a carriers arresting gear effectively killing all airborne aircraft. Lrasm is just something you lack capability to model and as such I understand if it is underperforming. Generally I think stealth to represent the evasion tactics it employs and a large damage yield to represent precise targeting of weak spots are probably the best you could do RN.
Tbh probably longer ranges, Type 055's radar and SPY-6 are much newer and more sophisticated than Russian ship radars from ten years ago.
This was wildly entertaining!
That was so much fun to watch.
An F15ex or two, somewhat behind the F35s to defend would have been helpful as that is what they are designed for. Or behind the F22s using the stealth to find targets and fire from out of range.
Yeah. A flight of missile trucks even mixed in with the F-35s (since they weren’t in stealth mode) would have really packed a great counter punch.
But remember.... if the Black Sea Fleets flagship had so many non functioning systems that it couldn't defend itself, everything else in the BSF is absolutely in as bad, or worse shape. That is to say, in reality, the BSF probably couldn't defend itself against anything.
Edit: Also note that multiple S-400's failed, repeatedly, to defend Russian air bases and naval bases in Crimea - as well as completely failing to protect Russian bases actually in Russia.
Yes but this simulation is based on official information given in the real world. So ofc this is not the reality of the Russian weapons but the claimed performance.
The Moskva was one of the wirst ships in the Black Sea Navy, its horrible maintenance and underequipment was known even before that in russia
No tactics was involved.
1) Decoys could be used to distract the initial launches of R-77s. This would deplete them well.
2) F-22s could attack from various directions.
Just send in a few cheap Neptune missiles.
Works 100 percent of the time.
When tracking costs are you counting unspent ordinance that goes down with the planes or ships that carried them?
Why wasn’t Ukraines Sam net taken into account? Just out of curiosity this has SU35’s flying over Odessa.
When that entire coast is littered with Manpads and S300 and BUk
Some general combat tactics would make that attack better. You basically attacked from *one* vector. If the F-16s were only meant as cannon fodder, why not throw them from one or two more angles to draw the fighter cover away from the side that you are actually attacking from?
I find these videos more entertaining than i should. =) Love the Channel guys!
When you are looking at the scoreboard in terms of economic cost - don't forget the "relative comparison" in cost for Russia and the US. The US GDP was $25 trillion and the Russian GDP was $1.79 trillion. Then there is replacement cost and time. The US replacement cost is higher - but the Russian replacement time may be infinite.
In real life, the S-400s would have been prioritized for a SEAD mission by a B-2. The LRASMs would have been dropped by a flight of B-1s, but under cover of a Patriot battery on the Romanian coast, and the LRASMs would have been escorted to within a few dozen miles of the fleet by F-22s. A bunch of joint strike missiles, carried internally by F-35s, could have also encouraged the Fleet to expend much of its defensive ordinance before the main event arrives.
No.
In reality a bunch of cheap Neptune missiles would have wiped out the entire fleet.
Raptor pilot in turl voice:
While you were learning how to STEALTH YOUR PLANES >I< was taught to darksouls dodgeroll!
It would have been impossible for a human to operate in a 4th gen plane in that fight. too many missiles in the air.
Love watching these, thank you!! What’s up simba!! Lol!
One thing you could do to mitigate the issues with the LRASM missiles deconflicting is have some kind of large target like a carrier that’s set to be invincible but not able to defend itself that acts as the “fleet” in the eyes of the missiles but you place the fleet itself around the carrier and have them operate as they normally would. You then count the hits on your invincible aircraft carrier and apply that to the fleet as destroyed vessels. This of course assumes the LRASM in real life would be able to distinguish a dead ship from a fighting ship. Could be a nice work around for future projects
It would be interesting to see how different this would be with a Patriot system stationed as far as close to the coast as you could (according to front lines). Likewise, run this with AIM260s as they're supposed to be in service this year.
Also you said a B1 got rushed - perhaps run a diversion strike on a different vector to pull the fighters out of position? I know you're a bit restricted with approach routes though, so maybe not feasible.
I'd like to see this run again though with your revised F22 positioning, a Patriot site as close to the coast as you think you could get it and AIM260s, think of it as a Q3 2023 operation when all these should be in place.
And add r37m and mig 31
Patriot would probably be covering Odessa realistically
Really like that cost of war box at the top right!
All the human pilot feedback is awesome
It felt like you were on the verge of having a panic attack but with joy throughout the video, you seemed to get way to excited and forgot what you were saying :D
"...sacrifice F16s..." . I guess you forgot that the USAF has a sacrifice platform called MALD. Or in the case of DCS TALD. Mix in some AGM-88 closely followed by the fighter sweep and they can ignore the SA-400. I tried a similar scenario and the SA-400 ignored everything till the MALDs were dead.
I wonder if adding an Awacs to the south and replacing the F16s with F15EXs would make a difference? Great Video keep up the awesome work!
I like to break into people's houses at night and nibble their toes for a few minutes, then leave as silently as I came. I'm up to around 4 houses per night and I'm extra sneaky. Cheers.
Those are rookie numbers you need to crank that up
^^ excellent comment
"Black Sea fleet is a very nasty adversary".
That didn't age well. =]
Tactical suggestion: put the Raptors right behind a reduced number of Vipers. Vipers attract SU-35s like a lure; SU-35s bite; Raptors reel them in before they know they’re there.
This was intense
Isn't this why we would take out the SAM net with a barrage of cruise missiles first?
You forgot to load the Pantzirs on everything that has a deck :)
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK. LOVE YOUR VIDEOS
watching, thanks gents. vvvvv
Enjoy
The content which really hooked me to this channel was the star wars stuff. I thought it was so great to see Earth factions taking on the Galactic Empire.
Excellent scenario! Just wonder if the fighter screen arrived closer to the time that the F35's were in range. The fighters were so early that they were almost completely wiped out before the F35's reached their launch point
Great action!
is there a way in game to deploy decoy gliders and have a wild weasel team follow along to destroy AA threats? or even just flood the airspace with decoys first
That's actually what the US has done in all of it's more recent large-scale strikes. Lot's of decoys, jamming and stealth.
I may have missed it but why didn't you have at least some of the ships in port like you've done for other fleet attacks? I think it was the at on the US fleet at San Diego where you had 90% of the fleet in port and basically powered down. That makes a huge difference when it comes to defense.
Noticed all the F16s just seemed to throw out their entire missile stock at the first 3-4 migs, each mig seemed to have 15+ amraams aimed at it. If the F16s had used thier missiles better they might have actually done something in the fight rather than just overkilling the lead formation of migs then dying fast.
With the SU-35s being so close to the F-35's as they were launching, would those missiles be detectable by onboard radar and would the Russian integrated system be able to use that to track them or prepare in some other way (moving AWACS over) so defences could be more effective?
How would the new AGM88Gs be used in a scenario like this? I would think shortly before LRASMs are launched. The AGM88G is reported to have double the range of previous variants and capable of reaching Mach4. Wikipedia article also indicated F35A/C can carry them internally. Could they get close enough to launch?
Love this!
LRASM can differentiate sunk targets for live targets, I believe they have on board computers that can tell by sight (based on image in memory) and on IR, is a ship on fire they move on to another ship in their target list that is not on fire. I believe the latest model Harpoons can too, along with the latest US, UK, French, Russian and Chinese anti-ship missiles. But the system has its limitations and can be effected by enough jamming, like most missiles.
Lol, that air battle was straight out of Independence Day where they all get massacred.
Great work Grim Reapers. I hear the EA=18 Growlers can do excellent jamming and I was wondering if these could be included in carrier air assaults. Also in carrier group air attacks, could the B-21 augment the assault?
So much of the Growler is still classified that it would be very hard to simulate in DCS. Most modern EWar in general is difficult to find enough information on to model in sim.
@@curdie_ Yeah, I guess so.
You need to add EF-18 Growler jamming
Great stuff as always, very interesting. I'm just left wondering if your cost calculations include the monetary value of personnel? Obviously there's a huge amount of money spent on training a pilot to fly an F35, maybe not so much is spent on a Mig pilot, certainly not a speedboat pilot! As I say, just wondering, would be interesting to know. Keep those wings pointing in opposite directions! Cheers.
To be fair, the US would use cruise missiles to destroy the SAM sites before the fast movers even attempted a break through.
That wind up was epic. The fist has rights too.
So, planes, ships, missiles, and lots of BOOM, BOOM!!!!
Writing deconfliction would be trivial, and especially so if there is any post launch update or communication between missiles. Dealing with ECW on the other hand...
Read about 30 comments. I agree the F-16s might have best been used as Wild Weasels, with the f-22s sitting in ambush waiting to jump the S-35s as they pursued the F-16s. Not sure about the range of the F-35s with 4 x 1500 lb. missiles strapped outside, but I do know it would qualify as stealth anymore. I wonder what the range (performance) of the LRASMs are when launched at sea level. And I hope that IRL these $3,000,000 missiles are better able to prioritize and differentiate between targets. If so, the Russian losses in this scenario might have doubled. We have seen before them choosing a cruiser or DD over a within eyesight carrier as well as having seen them hit multiple times on the same sinking target. This would absolutely be worth revisiting with a Grim Reapers tactic change. I know there's only so much you can do with the mods - really appreciate all yous guys efforts !
48 ships, two Trafalga class submarines rquired :)
Trafalgers are museum pieces, of the 7 built only 1 still sails the rest are retired.
More likely, given the scenario, two (or more) Virginia class subs.
@@randlebrowne2048 One would be enough to demorlize them and just the threat of a second would be enough for them to seek safe harbour and end their aggression.
Cap should work as a sportcommentator. This is like watching a sportgame. Great commentary!
@Cap It has been years since I was in the Navy, but I wonder if they would use a set of decoys to appear as a northern strike with a wavy of 16's after to get the sams to attack the decoys first and possibly shoot their load before the 16s get in range. What is your thoughts?
It seems to fit the pattern of most recent large-scale strikes that the US has done. Lots of decoys, jamming and stealth.