A Car So Bad It Had To Be Completely Redesigned? Renault Clio V6 (Phase 2)
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- čas přidán 12. 10. 2022
- The original Clio V6 was eagerly awaited.. but roundly panned by road testers as un-drivable at the limit. It was so bad that within two years Renault had almost totally re-engineered it. It has become known as the widowmaker. The Phase 2 version I drive today is much less tricky on the limit but things still don't go to plan....
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Fun fact, the phase 1 cars where built by TWR in Uddevalla, Sweden. In a part of the Volvo factory also building the C70. Must of the car builders where former Volvo and SAAB employees that had experience building cars in a totally different way. One of them was my brother, who learned how to bend, hammer a grind parts that really didn't fit well together. He and a colleague borrowed a pre series car for a drive during lunch time on a snowy winter day. You can imagine what happened. They did a 180 in a corner but luckily no damage. They drove really gently back to TWR.
Great story :) thank you for sharing heheh
Wow I didn’t know that. Spent quite a while in Uddevalla working for Volvo installing a new production line for the last C70. Great little factory.
In my opinion the phase1 should be more special due to the fact that it is modified and built by TWR.
I thought they were built in Spain.
My mate was on the paint line there. English lad called Paul C. Or Bullshit Paul as we used to call him.
Design definetely stood the test of time, looks just as good as back in the day for me.
Bloody love the Clio V6. I don’t care that they’re not the last word in dynamics….it’s a Clio with a V6 where there should be rear seats. 😂 I think they look fab.
I miss the days when the French did mental things like this.
It's not the case that it was redesigned because the reviews were bad. TWR were still mid development of the v6 when the Clio had already been face lifted by Renault, so the phase 1 was released as it was at the time and development of the car (still by TWR, not Renault) carried on along side. There was always going to be a facelift version with the engineering updates even before the press panned the phase 1. Think of the phase 1 as a work in progress and the phase 2 as the finished article. Also bear in mind the press reviews of the phase 1 were of the early pre prod cars. The run out production phase 1s have updated rear subframes with handling improvement.
Thanks for a response to the beautiful car by someone who knows the correct history. Sadly there will be people who watch only the viseo, and then spread the vile LIES about the CLIO V6 to the people they know. This journalist should have carried out his research more effectively, and given the viewers the real facts rather than outright LIES.
As a young gun I had a R5 Gordini, loved that car and had the great fortune to have a R5 Turbo mid engine, that was a beast and a stunning looking vehicle, just like this Clio V6.
I always wanted one of those mid engine turbos... the most amazing hatch back ever in production.
@@jenniferwhitewolf3784 The best and most dramatic car I have ever owned, still looks stunning today, it's aged so well.
My dad had a gen 1, new from factory. I went with him to pick it up from the Netherlands (mainly to pay a little bit less tax, but also for the craic). It was an amazing albeit tame drive back running it in. The following summer we went to Le Mans in it and saw Bentley win in 03. The driving to and from Le Mans was NOT tame. We were in convoy with a couple of Morgan’s and really struggled to keep up. The only way was by being the last of the late brakers which worked because as a 12 year old those Brembo’s scared me.
Needless to say, the following autumn my dad stuck it into a bush twice in two months (remarkably there was no damage bar a bumper and a good polish between the two binnings). He decided it was best to move on.
IMHO the gen 1’s look SO much better than the gen 2’s even with their many, many foibles.
Years ago (more than I'm willing to admit), I drove one of these on a track day. This was the most fun to drive. I can't remember them all but I drove a Caterham, an F2 car, Z350 and an Evo 7.
If you listen very carefully, you can hear something deciding to break when you changed from 1st to 2nd. it's just being French, all is forgiven.........
Thanks for this Jack, very enticing car and I can see just from the looks why it garners so much attention. Hoping you can have another go in better conditions when the car is sorted.
as a kid i was in love with the Renault R5 Turbo, sadly they never got imported to here in the US
They're all over 25 years old. You should go for it! Lol
Standard R5 was my first car here in Canada in 1982. Always dreamed about a R5 Turbo 2
@@msw7021 you don't what to drive a 5 Turbo 2 in a wet or snow road . His already bad enough when dry!
A quick check shows Bring a Trailer has 18 R5 Turbo sales in the US, but they're quite pricey.
They did make their way here courtesy of the burgeoning gray market industry of that time.
Some fabulous cars reviewed recently Jack! Keep up the great work 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
A Beetle RSi would be a great follow up to this one 😃
I really respect you ,some would scrap the video, but you were honest and kept going. Great video of a unique car we don't get here in the states
Thanks again Jack, a very interesting test drive, I hope you are able to borrow it again. Really squat and wide looking. It cornered well through 'Jacks Bend@ haha. Thanks again, Bob M. South Wales
Thanks Jack, odd how with all Renaults expertise, they made it so much heavier - 375kg = 15 bags of cement dotted around the car!
Glad you enjoyed it & owner found the issue!🙏🙏
Well Jack you didn't break it so that's good. Looks like you were enjoying it before it gave up the spirit . I am on the fence with these but the phase 2 looks like the business. Thanks for the review Jack.👍👍
Awesome car only ever saw it in Gran Turismo. Sad something failed while you were driving it. Looking forward to future videos. Keep up the good work.
Jack. Great video review. I remember when I first sat in the Renault 5 turbo 2....now that was a brilliant car for the time in 1985 ish
My mate had a 5 Renault 5 turbo, Car was completely bonkers lol
When TWR had their short lived design and engineering centre in Worthing, we machined the original full size styling model used by Renault to sign off the styling. Pulled an all nighter to make sure the model was ready for Renault the following morning.
Please review a Safrane Biturbo. Another crazy Renault. Same base engine as the Alpine A610. It had 4wd and electronically adjustable dampers. The Biturbo engines were built by Hartge, and the car itself was built by Irmscher in Remshalden near Stuttgart. Specific body parts, interior trim and the brakes were Irmscher.
Great review Jack.
I owned somewhat more pedestrian versions of the phase 1 and 2 in my late teens, the V6 was the stuff of dreams and I first saw the concept at the British Motor Show.
I did have the opportunity to drive an early Laguna 2 with the 24V 3.0 V6 around 20 years ago which in 210hp guise with a five speed auto was still surprisingly sprightly and very refined.
Not all that many years ago a V6 Clio could still be had for around £25k which isn't that far from the cost when new. I expect the reason these cars have shot up is because the R5 Turbo and Turbo.2 have risen to triple digits. For many the V6 Clio will be the next best thing in terms of a car that makes a statement.
There's only 1, of a total of 9 owned, for sale in Australia at the moment with an asking price of $150,000 AUD.
After owning a couple of Clio's in the past, the Sport 172 was a nad pocket rocket. When I saw this beast released, I was gobsmacked. Great to see it on tge road as in Oz, it was bever offered. Only a couple of grey omports and as new they commanded $60k AUD. With all the flaws, it still looks and sound amazing. Thanks for the video. Cheers from 🇬🇸
I saw an older lady driving one on the Monash Freeway in Melbourne a few years ago.
love the clio v6, they just look so bonkers and are so cool. i have a clio 172 cup myself and have owned several fast renaults over the years including clio williams and various 172s sadly never a v6 and now with the prices as they are alas i never will. nice video thanks for sharing.
Love these crazy little things! They remind me of a milder Metro 6R4. I find it astonishing that Renault even made them?
Really?
Why so?
Why would it be surprising that the same company that first put a turbo in an f1 car, that made the R5 turbo, that powered Williams Williams, Red Bull, Benneton to multiple championships would care make something quick!?
I had a manual v6 Laguna back in the day ( great car) but really wanted one of these!
Glad you didn't break it! It certainly looked like you were driving it with respect, so I'm sure the owner understood. My first car was '78 Renault 5 and I always fancied a R5Turbo2. That Clio is crying out for a MOMO Prototipo (that steering wheel is horrible).
Great channel!
Great stuff Jack. Yeah those re-manufactured clutch's can be a hit or miss... Unlucky was while you driving it. I really like those cars, I don't think the Phase 1 is that bad but just because I drove some times a Renault 5 Turbo 2 and that makes the Phase 1 look civilized hahahahaha
Very interesting car, great video, it sounds like it handles as well as a TVR in the wet!
Loads of grip the boom hedge lol, No warning just sends you there, Phase 1 at least and so short wheel base hard to recover, Damn barstewards lol
Great video !
I remember lusting after these when I first saw them in magazines back in the late 90s, I thought it was nuts that an auto manufacturer could get away with releasing one even back then.. I think only a handful came over here (Australia) and even less of the Spiders made it out .. But it was at best going to be a marginalised car, kind of like the RSi beetles and for the money you could get much more of a 2 seater sportscar on the secondhand market
But you are in Australia so you likely think that the Jpas make sports cars, eh?
It wasn't bad it was incredibly good on track. But it was a handful and hard to recover sometimes impossible when getting it wrong. It took talent, I've got a phase 1 and phase 2. They aren't for the average driver.
Look forward to the 172 comparison video. Loved my phase 2 172 and rather miss it.
some are still for sale here in Belgium ( i saw 2 of them ) - and i am keeping an eye on them in case i can afford one .
I remember seeing the phase 2 on Top Gear, must be close on 20 years ago with original Black Stig taking it over the line of the test track backwards. Even then they commanded silly money, the only one I ever saw local to me was a phase 1 and had significant front end damage but got snapped up very quickly at asking price which IIRC was around 25K.
Such a cool car we never saw in the States.
The auld Renault 5 turbo had the same squat, low and meen silhouette from the back...I love em both in the looks department anyway.
Keep the quality videos coming big yin. Ta
This bought back memories of my lust for this car's spiritual successor, the R5 Turbo. I somewhat laughably imagined myself in one as I drove my first car, an R5 Le Car. My dad worked at an AMC-Renault dealer and I kept asking if the Turbo was coming, in which case we would have got the employee discount. Alas, that never happened, and I went on to my first of 3 VW GTIs. Lovely Anglo-Italian accent by the way.
Successor comes after.
This cars spiritual predecessor, the R5 Turbo, you meant.
I'll get me coat
@@blacktoothfox677 I did, thanks!
Apology for my pedantic nature!🍀
@@blacktoothfox677 I was in a bit of a fog dreaming about that R5 Turbo again😁 No worries.
I lost the back end on a few corners driving this, it had nitro tank built in the boot with a switch on the dash, put a smile on my face this car..👍
I have never seen nor heard of this car. It is really cool looking.
You do really well to find and review all of these different cars Jack! I totally agree the Clio V6 looks awesome but for the money they command these days I really struggle to understand why someone would buy one other than looks!? ..... When I think of the other toys you could have I just couldn't justify buying one ! But that's just me👍
Looks and Sound 😁
Clio V6 Phase 1 Nr 58 Driver 😊
@@rainerknuth fair play! 😉👍
Cheers Ryan! And nice new pic!
Engine base was a co-developpement PSA and Renault, in a similar scheme as for the PRV. Actual engineering was done by PSA, but cost was shared.
Be nice to see you try a Renault Sport Spider Jack .
Jack the incurable optimist returns: "I've just broken Luke's car, but I hope to borrow it again to do a comparison test.....". Never change, Jack, never change! 😁
I've had several Renault 5 GT Turbos and two Clio 182s - I still have an immaculate 182 at the moment. Renault definitely make fantastic handling hot hatches. Now some time ago I drove a Phase 2 V6 back to back with a 182 Trophy and the Trophy is a much better car point to point, particularly around the twisty bits. The V6 felt heavy and lazy when compared to the Trophy with the propensity for snap oversteer in a heartbeat. That said, prices of V6s have rocketed in recent years and they do look lovely. So to sum up, if you want a drivers car - get the Trophy but if you want an ornament that 's dramatically appreciating in value... then go for the V6.
Or spend 40k on a low mileage R26R. Best of both worlds.
Buy both!
totally agree with u . The Clio V6 are for sale now around 50,000 + these days while u can get many Clio's Trophy or Megane Trophy between 7,500 up to 34,000 Pounds . I even saw 2 Renault Twingo Gordini's ( 130 Hp for 1,000 kgs or less ) for sale as well for way under 10,000 pounds with low mileage as well . As soon as i can get my hands on 10,000 or more Pounds , i will be chasing one of these super fast French Hatches to have amazing fun with .
@@BlueHopi144 The reason that Renault make great Hot Hatches is that they were the first company to build them. Think of the Renault R4 Gordini. Decades before the Golf GTI existed.
@@Demun1649 you are right . I intend to buy one of those speedy Renault hatches - a few are for sale in Belgium ( Twingo Gordini , Clio's and Megane RS ) .
I'm not sure I agree with you on the ph1 being "so bad", they were hand built by TWR as you said, and obviously if you have a car with a tiny wheelbase with a big heavy V6 in the back, oversteer is going to be very hard to react to and correct before the laws of physics catch up to you and swing you around like a pendulum. A Clio v6 was a car Renault wanted to build because they could, like the old Turbo 2, it was never supposed to be, or marketed as, a better handling and driving car than a Clio 182 for example which is absolutely a better drivers car, but it's certainly nowhere near as cool.
The ph2 was built "in-house" by Renault Sport themselves and used much a much more standard means of production, so the body panels were unique pieces, not normal Clio panels modified like the ph1.
What I'm getting at is, the ph2 was only "redesigned" because it was built by different people with more Clio specific resources and as a result it was slightly better behaved, but the laws of physics still apply especially if you're driving one of these close to the limit in less than perfect weather conditions.
A Clio v6, ph1 or ph2, is a rare and last of it's kind experience and in my opinion can only be compared to an R5 Turbo 2. It's a spectacle and incredibly special in looks and driving (that doesn't necessarily mean good), hence the massive premium.
I've also got a lightly modified French racing blue Clio 182 FF if you'd be interested in driving that? It's very close to OEM with some choice upgrades.
Beautiful car! I want to like it I love my V6 Alfa Busso's, used to leave these things like they where stood still in my 96 tuned STI though, just not quick enough :/
That induction sound 😍
A bit to noisy for a long trip, in my opinion! I tried it for a couple of hours, and my head was happy that I was giving it back. That said, that intake charging noise is the most exciting thing ever!
Sounds good 👍
Doug Demuro reviewed one recently and commented that the handling is a bit scary because the front end is too light but overall he loved the car.
No room inside, very high Gas consum but i Love my Clio V6 🥰
I drove a new one when the MkII came out, also back in 2008 I revisited this model again but ended up buying a 350Z as it was a significantly better car. Trouble is the Clio V6 isn't special enough inside or to drive. It looks good from the outside but that's it! Regarding driving the car and its reputation, half the problem was that owners couldn't drive the things properly or didn't have the skill to handle the car if it got a little out of shape. The high prices certainly do not reflect the driving experience. For a start, it is not a £60K driving experience (I have seen some up at £100K on Collecting Cars) and there are significantly better cars out there at much less cost, like the E46 M3, 350Z/370Z or Porsche Boxster/Cayman. When you think you can buy a good Audi R8 for less than £50K it puts it into prospective. Most of the Clio V6's I came across in 2008 were modified in some way, and this is where your problems can start.
I can understand a Lotus Elise being mid engined RWD light weight etc but this is a family hatchback that now has no practicality... for £9000 I could buy a 147GTA or a 130i which can do it all.
I drove a Phase 1 a while back and I couldn't agree more about its issues. Even at fairly mundane speeds (80kmh/50mph) it still felt like it wanted to swap ends at any given moment. It felt properly quick and pointy, but perhaps the front end was a bit too pointy which meant the rear couldn't keep up and would just snap. I believe this is what you meant about the odd steering feel?
Definitely felt like it demanded a lot of respect when driving it though
mmn, the jury is out, as your left foot loves to rest on the clutch pedal i seem to remember
i drove a bog standard one when new, just couldn't get it to go round corners, far too heavy, + as you say, had the 911 bum bite just when you thought you were in control
keep up the good work young man, + get your foot off the bloody clutch pedal...
Love the styling soo gorgeous but would prefer to drive the much lighter 182
I remember these cars being straight unruly in most of the sims.
I can remember one of these trying to beat my RF900 Suzuki off the lights in Portsmouth! He was doing really well until I let the clutch out.
2 of them are for sale in Belgium with very low mileage - i saw that on a second hand car website the other day . their prices are around 50,000 POUNDS
Did anyone else hear a “scccccrrrrr” on that 1-2 shift? It happens before jack even has a chance to pull second. Definitely a defective clutch especially with so few miles on it. Great sound!
He’s lucky he had enough friction material to get back. I had a similar failure in my turbo mgb, but it detonated the whole clutch. Granted, I was shifting at 7k and 15lbs on the ford 2.3, it had to be brought home on a truck.
I owned a Phase 1 since 2011, I replaced the seats with two Sparco racing seats because I feel the stock seats are very bulky and very heavy for the car.
These cars remind me of the Ford Shogun - a 1989 Ford Festiva econobox with a Taurus SHO V6 crammed in the back. Sadly, you likely will never get to see - let alone drive - one of those, as they only made 8 (including the original prototype.)
Having had both a V6 and 182 the V6 just failed in comparison. The 182 Trophy I had was just so dialed in. Where it fell down against the V6 was the noise which was lovely and the looks as the V6 just looks so purposeful.
Good of you to be honest enough to upload you breaking his car - though you did word it slightly differently lol. As others have said, most people would delete the files.
Been watching shmee150's restore of one of these would have loved to have owned one back in the day
What an era of cars!
I have a earlier version of this Peugeot V6 engine in my old 406 saloon - it sounds nothing like this mad thing!
So conceptually and aesthetically cool. It's a legendary car, to hell with handling.
Tim Shmee150 has just restored one of these. Sounds & looks awesome.
Tim's is much nicer than the beater in the video
Maybe the gearbox giving up was a designed thing in the Phase 2 to make it safer xD
DAS - Death Avoidance System kicked in
see, you didn´t die x>
That gen of standard clio is a great bargain though
I went to a Renault track day back in 2003 when I had a 172. A phase 1 v6 spun and crashed on the sighting lap at the start of the day, we were all just cruising round 🤣😂
yikes, I had no idea the prices of these had gone anywhere near that high, they've really shot up!
I used to be a liason engineer at Nedcar in the Netherlands who made the Volvo S40 and Mitsubushi Carisma who used a Renault engine, there was a Renault engineer there who i got to know, he took the job so he could buy the Clio V6 at a 30% discount, I remember the day his delivery was confirmed he resigned!!
Great cars. Renaultsport has produced some great driver cars...r26r, Clio Trophy, etc, so hopefully see more on the channel.
F1
ahem........don' t forget R5 Turbo 2
can't wait for number 28
Clio V6 is cool af though. I just wish it had even wider "hips" like the 5 Turbo, from the rear the 5 Turbo looks like a van, when you drive past it it looks like a hatchback. its crazy. and mhhh, I love em wide hips on cars.
cars that went to massive prices. for example here in the Netherlands they asking 100.000 euros. crazy prices
Errr I’m sorry it’s never happened to me before.. I’ll try again in a minute.. I think we’ve all said that 😂😂😂
Great looking car and some worthwhile mods by the owner.
Don’t worry Jack it happens to us all!!🎉
With a big engine like that, there needs to be more modifications to the suspension, transmission snd brakes.
Phew! 😅 Glad it all worked out. Cool car, great sound, thanks Jack!
That car needs a racing seat belt. In France these V6's have a racing class of their own and they perform brilliantly.
How about comparing the Clio V6 alongside the 5 Turbo 1 or 2?
Respect to them building it in the first place.Bonkers car😍
I read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that the issue with the phase 1 rear suspension and subframe mounts being less than optimally positioned on the body [not unlike the Alfa 4C] was a known issue, but due to time and money pressure, they didn't re-engineer them for the first phase. I can't remember if it was TWR's or Renault's decision. As you say, the redesign for phase two was a comprehensive reworking of the known probems, but they had been aware of them since pre production
You are spot on there. Lack of time was the biggest impact!
I used to have a Clio 182 years ago , fantastic car it was very fast and more reliable than that V6 version lol
That is a a long time ago
@@hynekschreiber241 Yeah 👍 some rich bloke owns my old 182 now sadly not Harry Metcalfe lol
Wonderful looking car and the sound of that engine is pure bliss.Seems rather strange that a friction plate is no longer available from Renault or from the manufacturer that supplied Renault ,like Sachs?
Well apparently it’s not… car now fixed and will be back on the channel
@@Number27 Good to hear about that👍
Replacement for R5 turbo 2.
Williams had a hand in overall development. Their development mule slipped through my hands by approx 1hr, was only 14k, life long regret.
Awesome looks... it was a "group B" look revival .... it is a pitty not be a good handlig car ... instead of TWR, it should have been done by Lotus...
I always thought a 3 litre V6 in a Renult Clio was insane. Did they learn nothing from the MG B GT V8?
I love it. I would imagine it's like driving an Elise, just a little quieter and a little more practical. Cool video man!!
Nothing like driving an Elise, literally the only thing in common is that it's mid-engined. Over 500kgs heavier than an S1, PAS, ABS, still McPherson strut front, multi-link rear, much higher seating position...Might as well be a bus compared to an S1 Elise.
I owned the mk5 Golf R32 which was the same dissapointment handling wise as the weight of the engine made is laughable against a mk5 gti. The sound though and on the motorway you could be all day cruiser.
“Absolute best when parked.” 😂😂
They sell from about 10 to 20 grand over msrp, so it doesn't sound enticing to those who aren't into the drivable asset game.
I'm pretty sure the engine is the PRV sucessor, which ditched Volvo but still had PSA and Renault as co-developers.
Right! named "L" by RENAULT when the PRV was "Z"
Great review. The ride-height doesn't look right to me. Something wrong with the springs/dampers?
It's on coilovers!
@@lukedealberdi3713 Oh no!
Mate of mine had one in Silver stunning looking car but scary as hell ☠️☠️
I’ve never been so scared driving a car
That was such a great car!
Good build quality......🏁🏁💰
Old video but what a fantastic car, Phase 1 was unhinged and in wet deadly lol, Fantastic look at a modern legend, Never experienced phase 2 but damn the phase 1 could pull