Not your Father's NAD: Masters M66 review
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- čas přidán 14. 06. 2024
- This episode is brought to you by Munich High-End 2024:
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🎥 Camera: John Darko / Olaf von Voss
🎬 Editor: John Darko
🌈 Colour: Olaf von Voss
🕺🏻 Motion GFX: John Darko
💰 Ad segment: Jana Dagdagan
🎵 Song IDs? Playlists of all music heard in this video - and other videos - can be found on PATREON: / johndarko
0:00 Into
1:28 Some basics
2:17 Analogue Direct
3:54 Analogue pre-amp comparison
5:59 Phono stage comparison
6:23 DAC talk
10:22 DAC comparison
12:16 Headphone comparison
13:33 Dirac Live Bass Control ON & OFF
21:10 Amplifier comparison
👉 As seen in this video...
NAD Masters M66
🛒 www.audioadvice.com/nad-maste...
NAD Masters M23
🛒 www.audioadvice.com/nad-m23-s...
PSB BP-8
📖 www.psbspeakers.com/eu/subser...
Dirac Live Bass Control
📖 www.dirac.com/live/bass-control/
Where am I at with room reverb in 2024?
📖 darko.audio/2024/02/room-acou...
KEF R3 Meta
🛒 www.audioadvice.com/kef-r3-me...
Pro-Ject RS2 T CD transport
📖 pro-jectusa.com/product/cd-bo...
Hegel H590
📖 www.hegel.com/en/products/int...
PS Audio BHK Signature pre-amplifier
📖 www.psaudio.com/products/bhk-...
Cables and power products by AudioQuest
🛒 howl.me/ckbW8ZBoZAg
Hi-fi furniture and speaker stands by Solid Steel
🛒 howl.me/ckbW9947Hdi
Room treatment by Vicoustic
📖 vicoustic.com/
Darko.Audio may earn a small commission from items purchased via affiliate links, which are indicated with a '🛒'.
#NAD #hifi #highend
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Great video, thanks for sharing 🙂 and I REALLY hope its N.A.D 🙂
New. Acoustic. Dimension.
All these years I thought it was North Atlantic Designs..... oops
@@DarkoAudio There are no dots after every word in New Acoustic Dimension. But. Maybe. We. Will. Begin. Doing. That. After. Today. 😀
KEF isn’t a synonym for balls the same way nads is. 😊
Be not surprised that we call it N.A.D. Then again people say Schitt all the time. We have no standards!
It's definitely "N.A.D." and not Nad.
The M10 was my first hifi purchase. I really liked it at first.
Then it broke. Reached out to NAD support, and they did nothing to help. I’m not allowed to repair it myself, and replacement parts are insanely expensive. I had to ship it to a shop 1200 miles away. Then waited 9 months for the repair because of parts shortages. In that time I got to demo a lot of other equipment and realized the M10 doesn’t really sound that good.
Ended up replacing it with a separates system and will never buy another NAD product again. Their support department did literally nothing and wouldn’t give me any insight as to what could have happened on a unit so new.
That's great first-hand experience to know and share and a definite consideration when spending this amount of money on any audio component.
After-sales support and service is a big deal to any consumer that is shopping/comparing any potentially significant purchase, and some manufacturers just don't "get it." Cheers
I had a different experience in Bali?service was fast only 2 weeks and no charge?
Too many people in this thread with reliability issues. That’s me out.
I appreciate that your channel isn’t cheap clickbait. It’s a breath of fresh air. Thank you.
Love you’re channel, I’m 73 & I mostly listen to jazz, rock from my youth. You mentioned electronic music & a band called Monolake, I’ve been listening to silence. I’m using elac ub5, I think they came out in 2016. The image & soundstage from the speakers are amazing
One of the tracks on silence called avalanche was a total 3D experience, many tracks on the Monolake are mind blowing thanks for turning me on to electronic music, also alva noto
hybr:I’d ll ectopia environment is also a 3D experience.
I always look forward to your videos and podcasts, as well as checking the website.
Thank you for all the effort you and your team put into making them. I really appreciate it.
If we say KEF instead of K.E.F,we should also say NAD.They are both acronyms of three word names.
It’s N.A.D. and KEF. Nobody said things had to be logical or consistent. 😋
How would you say EMI or IBM ?
Having said that I have always said Nad not N.A.D. there's no logic to these things.
KEF was always known as “KEF”. NAD on the other hand stands for something. Like BMW or BBC.
(Sure KEF was derived from the site it was founded on but no one understands KEF to mean Kent Engineering & Foundry).
i second the motion 😂
Damn outstanding video. I cannot imagine the time it takes for you to complete one of these.
BTW, your room looks fantastic! Nice job by you and the techs you had in during the early days.
Great video. Thanks for this. Further comparisons welcome 😊
I was waiting for a review of this m66 good job.
For the price I expected more from the dac section.
Most audiophiles have a favourite dac and wouldn't give it up for something like this. I mean it does have a plethora of features
but audiophiles usually don't seek all in one devices.
What would shake the market would be a dedicated streamer from NAD WITH DIRAQ up to 500hz running blue os. It can be priced competitively and
if the streamer section is decent enough it will be a best seller. I say that because after using diraq for bass, mine and my friend's system, concluded that it is a must have
for untreated spaces.
There was such a device from NAD that also had preamp, dac, phono stage that were essentially unusable and only raised the price.
I've been selling NAD since it was NEW ACOUSTCIS DIMENSIONS so I'm going with it as an acronym. Each letter individually.
Yay for Camera Conspiracies! All I want is the perfect preamp!
Terrific video John, been waiting for this
You do a great job with good balance and reasonable price ranges. Well done and great work including the dynamic duo show! I have Neumann mics and headphones and am jealous you’re so close to them.
Thanks for the upload!
I will try the pre amp this year in a shop.
My last amp was an NAD Silverline 200. ❤ last 12 years its active speakers for me.
Serious high praise for the NAD combo. I’m sure it sounds very good. Thanks John.
The usual excellent video. Called it exactly right. Congrats!
That See Mi Yah has some epic bass . Loved all the music . I look em up and play em as you show them. Cool
Thanks. Very informative
Love the music selection as always and always loved that Bad Seeds clip with Jason Donovan. I am moving back to Australia in 18 months and looking at dedicated systems and lounge/family room systems so good info
What a setup 🔥
Waoo John. Brilliant video.. great job❤❤❤
Great review as always. I have the NAD M33. Your Kef R3 Metas are close to your wall. Do they sound good that close? I'm asking because my room requires speakers that sound good close to walls. Thanks!
Suberb review and a lovely product, too with a heavy price tag.
Excellent review.
I believe "in-band phase alignment" means that in the relevant frequency band (40-100 hz. or so for music) the subwoofers and mains will be both time-aligned and phase-aligned. You can have a speaker/sub system that is time-aligned, but not phase-aligned, because the phase of the relevant waveform from mains and sub(s) is X degrees out of alignment with each other even though it reaches the ears at the same time. There is a great deal of debate as to whether phase alignment is audible, however, while time-alignment most definitely is due to cancellation/nulling which is most dramatically evidenced by a suck-out in the crossover region between subs and mains.
"In-band phase alignment" simply refers to the phase alignment and relationship between any two drivers Within The Crossover Region.
IOW, within the range of frequencies that overlap and which both drivers are playing concurrently, which is determined by the type/alignment of the Crossover being used (Bessel, Butterworth, Linkwitz-Riley, etc.), the Center Frequency, and the Slope in dB/Octave of both the HPF & LPF.
Obtaining an ideal Phase Alignment between any two drivers Within The Crossover Region is THE most important factor for enabling a group of separate drive units (a multi-way loudspeaker) to act as ONE...i.e. a single point source. And the Phase Alignment has a significant impact on Dynamic Transients, Coherence/Clarity/Detail, and Imaging Cues.
And, Yes, Time Alignment is very important as well.
But "Phase Alignment" (or not) is definitely audible.
I could demonstrate this to you in real time if you were to sit in the MLP of one of my high-end car audio systems which use a 12-channel DSP while I adjusted the phase between the Subwoofer & Midbass drivers in real time.
With Smaart v8/v9, OpenSoundMeter, or JL Audio's TüN v4.x acoustic measurement and DSP software (for JL's VXi series of DSP-amplifiers), you could see a real-time visual representation of the acoustic phase alignment as it changes on the graph.
JL Audio has posted a few tutorials and demonstration videos on utoob which show this in real time when using their TüN software combined with their MAX acoustic measurement system (5 microphone array and USB audio interface) with their multi-channel VXi series of DSP-amplifiers.
And if I were to save 2 separate presets in the DSP using one that is set with ideal phase alignment and another where it is out of alignment by ~45° or more, you would instantly hear the difference as I switched between the two presets.
The apparent "speed" of the bass and midbass, its dynamic impact & punch, and its resolution/clarity/detail, as well as its impression of being "locked" upfront with the rest of the soundstage are instantly affected and are audible.
I also use the miniDSP C-DSP 8-12 processor with DIRAC Live in one of my car audio systems with excellent results. And to achieve great sound (especially an accurate deep, wide, and linear soundstage with pinpoint imaging) in a car audio environment is orders of magnitude more difficult compared to a home audio system.
@@bbfoto7248 I only noted that there was debate, as there is an almost all things audio-related, but fwiw I agree with you that phase alignment is audible. I believe time-alignment is the priority in the region under discussion by Darko, however, which is the crossover region between mains and subs where there is no 'pinpoint' detail to speak of, and the perceptibility of bass transients is almost entirely conditioned by reverberation times.
N-A-D have loved the stuff for 40 years.
Best touch screen audio streamer
I had mine on pre-order for about 4 months but it arrived today. It’s matched with the M23, and GoldenEar Triton 1s. I can honestly say this is about as end game system I can imagine.
Great review...!!! I really enjoy your taste in house plants...!!! Well done...!!! Endomorphic...?
Dirac is amazing and i wouldnt have a pre amp without it
Agreed. Love my Minidsp Flex with Dirac Live.
I say it both ways, and I have no idea why, or when I say either.
I have an older NAD M32 and I mainly use it with the newest chromecast. It wakes the amp up, when I cast to the chromecast groups in my home. A great solution. Besides that, all the tv i watch on my chromecast, automatically goes through my amp.
Thanks for a proper deep dive. Should I win lotto at some point I'll be sure to add it and the amp to the list.
NAD is derived originally from New Acoustic Dimension. It was a consortium of US dealers looking for an alternative to low profit and low quality Japanese brands. The plain cosmetic was a stark contrast to the typical Japanese receiver’s light show, jokingly called ‘Tokyo by Night’ and text advertising front panels of several useless features. Dealers would hold “Dealer Congress” meetings, voting on models and features they wanted produced. From the beginning it has been N A D. I was a manufacturer rep in their early days.
En eh dee. Love seeing True Stories on the turntable. Phenomenal album!
Hi John, I think it's great that you focus more on DSP/ room correction and integration of subwoofers these days. I kind of miss the attention on non standard DACs from a few years back though. R2R and multbit DACs sound different and to my ears way better than price comparable standard chip DACs ( including the RME). While tastes are different, IMO the dac typology choice can have a noticable impact on how a system sounds. Based that it would be nice to include something like Denafrips, Schiit, Audio GD, etc into DAC comparisons moving forward.
I have known it as N. A.D. since I bought my first N.A.D. Amplifier back in 1982.
Great thorough video review, John!...Please review the HiFi Rose RS150B streamer...Thank you...
Would love to hear your thoughts vs. its little brother, the C658
❤ very informative video , beautifully edited as always John!
It would be fun if you also experience with some high end Japanese brands like Luxman / Accuphase!
I'd love to cover a Luxman or an Accuphase 🙂
@@DarkoAudio I hope you will !!!!
Great video! Thank you as I have been waiting for a review of the M66. I was considering offerings from Technics, Hagel, Anthem and Parasound but leaning NAD. This nails it. I do wonder if this is too costly for a 2 ch when you can add another $2,500 and get a Marantz AV10 or Anthem AVM 90 which reportedly, have the same level of measured performance in the 2 ch domain. (Based off the M33 measurements by some.)
NOTHING beats the clean look of the M66 paired with the M23 though! That is SICK looking and a Technics SL-1200 G-S would look amazing between them! Cheers!
I have the M12 and M22V2 predecessors for about 4 years now, the performance and flexibility is great - the bang for buck was huge in terms of sound quality, I chose it over many more prestigious names costing the same or more. Using with Dynaudio Confidence 20 speakers. Tempted to try the M66 and or adding a second M22v2, and a brace of subs. P.S I think that was a clip from the new Grandaddy video, which I love! Esp that song Watercooler.
Hey John, New Glasses? Nice Rig with the N A D Products
Hi John. Regarding sub placement have you tried movi g one of the subs to be diagonal to the other across the room?
For my room this works best and control's any bass issues better but it will be room dependent.
is pronounced "hell yeah"
great review, thanks for the comparisons
N A D. I have a NAD 3045 from 1978. An amazing sounding preamp.
What would be really interesting now is a comparison test with a Mini DSP SHD to see if this is worth over double for similar specs.
Very interesting but i dont want to give up my Auralic Vega G2 dac with the possibility of Auralic bringing Dirac into their newer products (i have my eye on the Aries G2.2). Will keep saving the pennies and see what this year brings. great vid as always
Target curve experimentation can change the entire sound of the configuration, and is a huge strength of DIRAC if you enjoy experimentation. I didn't like DIRAC's out of the box target curve (too lean in the low-end) and also didn't like what it was doing to the presentation of my speakers in the midrange and treble, which are KEF LS50 Meta which has an excellent crossover implementation and directivity that's close to ideal. I imported a +4DB Harman target and 'pulled the blinds' on the correction to the Schroeder frequency for my room, and saved a second filter with correction out to 600 hz. I used the third and fourth filter positions for +6DB and +8DB curves for when I really want to bump the bass. I can now live happily with any of them.
For 6000 euros, one would expect the M66 DAC to outperform a 1200 euro dac. So this doesn’t make the M66 an all in one box streamer, dac, preamp, if you still need an external dac.
Only it won’t work with an external DAC.
I’m curious what you think about the Lyngdorf TDAI 3400 and N.A.D. M23 in comparison to using the M66 as a preamp and why it was not in the side by side comparisons, because I know how much you like the Lyngdorf/N.A.D. combo :)
i'm keen to know also. I have 3400/M23 combo and love it, but would like to know comparison. I expect that you have 3400/M23 in Berlin whilst M66/M23 is in Lisbon? difficult to do side by side.
Hi John,
What tubes are you using in the BHK Signature preamp?
Thanks for another great video!
And I call it N A D, not NAD.
Got to admit, I've really enjoyed my Nads...(NADs). The T758 V3i is great for the TV surround system but digitized the analog whereas the C658 in our stereo system lets you choose between analog and digitized inputs.
Like some other people we now have two abodes which also sport my THIRD Nad...(??). The M10 V2 is great for a mixture of both the other two but is all digital (with original LS50s and an SVS Micro 300). Fun stuff!
I wonder how the Anthem STR Preamplifier would stack up against these two preamps?
Great video.
What do you think about Anthem STR Pre-amp or Integrated Amp.
Anthem STR had all these "new" features years ago. By many experts ARC is the best room correction and bass management software. Engineered and made in Canada. It would be an interesting comparison.
Yes, high quality review as usually, I call it N.A.D.
Thank you so much for this, I've been waiting for your review before I pull the trigger on one. I can see my current black boxes shelves cables etc saying goodbye.
NAD or N.A.D ..... well it was sold as NAD 3020 when I bought mine back in the 80's, but who really cares... I think it was about 100quid
I couldn't afford what I wanted to drive the Linn KAN mk1 but it did a grand job for quite a few years.
What? Nobody mentioned the VU meter display being brazenly backwards?? That alone would drive me up a wall as I listen with my eyes, too.
Hi, is the jump from m33 to m66+m23 worth the money without DL / DLBC? I mean does it blow or is it a little whistle?
En Ay D. I think they nailed the look on these pieces, especially together. Expensive and great.
Excited about review!! I just ABed a pass labs int 25 Border Patrol DAC Node to Sony ES 5000 and was not impressed with Sony as 2 channel but love it's avr sound bubble. Never had pleasure of trying new high end class D though
Love my NAD m32
The DAC test was interesting. As I understand it, the comparison was between the NAD natively streaming and a setup that used a Cambridge streamer into a DAC and then into the analog only side of the NAD. Superficially it would seem that the more apples to apples test would be to compare the latter setup to the Cambridge streamer going directly into a digital input of of the NAD. Curious as to why you did not do that.
Do the 2 single ended and 1 balanced inputs count as 3 separate inputs or does using the balanced limit you to 2 inputs? Any chance there is a HPF hidden in those menus? Wish they would have skipped the phono stage to bring the price down a smidge or provide another input. Most people buying at this price level who are vinyl fans will likely have an external phono amp with more adjustability. I'm curious what it would compare to.
I have a pair of kef r3 in piano gloss. What do you use to keep them clean ? I have been told to use distilled water with a micro cloth. Do you use the same ? And if so any links. Thanks
In the price comparison with the Hegel, you might factor in some good cables and a second good power cord for the NAD pair.
Wonder what the loading options and gain is for the mc input, also.. shame they don’t make a matching cd player
eN Ay Dee... and I'm in love with that BiG MultiFunctional Screen & digital VU Meters !
Go NAD!
Good one. Gonad. I mean err - Go Nad.
Great review. Thank you. I am looking forward to see other new generation of preamps.
It is interesting that e.g Marantz Cinema 50/40/30 and also Denon 3800 and up have 4 independent subwoofer outs. Exactly as NAD M66. For Marantz/Denon it is expected to have Dirac ART be available this year. There is a question whether it will be also available for M66. If so, than this is a very compelling offer of features in one box.
From audio stand point of view very exciting times.
How does this compare to Eversolo DMP-8. Obviously, the cost is vastly different, but how about the sound?
Re: Headphone, any plan to test some more “recent” popular headphones. Modhouse Tungsten, Empyrean II?
Is DIRAC Live a game changing for stereo digitalize preamplify? Not only but NAD66 is support full Frequency DIRAC live upgradable to? correct me if mistake.
Yo Darko do you have any recommendations for a preamp thats between $1000 - $1500 usd?
Within BLUOS, the autodetect feature on ports, is it limited to just one of the inputs or will it support multiple inputs? My node X for example, one can only choice one input to work with autodetect, once you choose a second input, the other input auto detect is disabled. Thanks!
NAD - some great products
N-A-D
The problem with going with analog direct is, you won't be able to stream that input to other BluOS systems throughout the house.
also, I like the Marimekko screensaver 😉
John, have you considered on maybe making a video about the fiio cp13 portable cassette player whenever it comes out or the smsl pl200 cd player?
Nice video. I have NAD C658 with ELAC Navis ARF51 and I was thinking about upgrade to Master series M66 but the price and the fact that DAC is only a bit better to now older RME is a big con.
All well and good, those options for adjusting your sound.
But then you have to have a hi-fi shop that can set this up optimally and let's be honest, not everyone can do this. There aren't that many Terry Ellis(s).
But there is no doubt that both N.A.D. and Hegel market top products.
Btw, great and clear video.
Grtz Phil
I always thought NAD stands for New Accoustic Dimension. I had a 3020i, NADs first mainstream amplifier, when I was a student.
That is indeed what it stands for. Their new C 3050 has the name on its faceplate. I’ve always called it N-A-D.
I love my NADs!
😂
Timely video. I'm looking at the KEF R3s paired with the M66 + M23. Or, the M33. Either will have a Rega P6. What do you recommend?What am I missing?
Looking for a simple end game solution for streaming and vinyl.
I've had the M33 since Jan 2021, running a P6 (with Ortofon Quintet MC cart) out to a pair of Golden Ear Triton Ones.
I find the whole set up clean, simple, elegant. The amp and deck take up little space. The sound is tight, powerful, detailed and toe-tapping.
M33 does A LOT! - and is (perhaps) cheaper than the M66/M23 combo. Just my findings.
@@richardlast5850 Thank you for this! Certainly cheaper! I have all of this in my cart and am hesitant to pull the trigger. Any concerns with your setup?
Fantastic pairing of R3 Meta and M23 amp!! I have a BlueSoundNode / Border Patrol DAC / Pass Labs Int 25 / Zu Soul Supremes. I never had pleasure of trying high end Class D amp but just feel current amp is fantastic and little bit of trials against Sony class D amps left me feeling certain silly terms about class A like "3D", "Smooth" "soul of instrument" are ok to use privately describing the Pass Labs. I don't want a touch screen. Not sure BlueOS chipset is different than node.
Absolutely wish Hifi stores still existed to demo that.
I see an improvement in the visuals. New lights, lens, camera, diffusion?
Hé John. Did you check out HT passtrough possiblity?
Ive got the NAD 777V3 - cant understand if i can put a phono MDC card inside rather than having to have an external phono stage....
Any advice for getting phono into this NAD unit ?
Thank you Sir... thank you for your effort and secondly your style on err thing.
You can't. A separate phono stage will nearly always sound (a lot) better, so why not stick with it?
Nad/bluesound have brutal wifi issues. My m10 and powernodes are so disappointing. The fact you had this same issue on a brand new device is disappointing but sadly not surprising. Their customer service doesn’t care. They just blame your wifi router hang up. Meanwhile my wiim devices work flawlessly in the same locations. I now use a wiim to my m10. But the m10 auto sense doesn’t work most of the time. “Master series”?
nad here (but I'm Dutch, so not a native English speaker😉)
I pronounce NAD as a name, like KEF. Interesting product this M66.
I wonder, are you planning a review video of the Pro-Ject CD transport?
I guess it will works at it's best being used as a streamer / preamp / Dirac Bass Management / DAC for subs and then just use a digital output to a greater DAC before a great amp.
Great vid as always! I would be super curious how the Eversolo A8 compares to the NAD. Obviously the NAD has wayyyy more bells and whistles, but as digital front ends and preamplifiers, I'm curious what the sound delta is given their respective price points.
I'm getting an A8...but in Berlin. So, alas, it won't be in the same room as the M66. Sorry.
In 1989 I bought a NAD receiver. In the USA we called it N A D.
We did.
In English, I say N.A.D. But in Finnish, I say Nadi. Finns sometimes add the letter i at the of some words. Don’t ask me why.
I know your going international, but living aound the cormer from me in Berlin, it would be intresting to know your opinion about a developed amp in Germany bei Nubert, the Nu connect amp XL with 2 x 360 odd watts/Chanel Class G amp section and full streaming cap. Locally it has superior reviews . going for about 1400 Euro, Nubert makes very good products preis wise without the retail overhead.
I would assume „in band phase alignment „ is basically saying that the alignment is phase aligned by concentrating on the frequency „band“ that is the spectrum where the crossover between sub and tops where they are both producing the same frequencies, this is basically what we professionals do when aligning large PA systems or Studio systems, I would be very wary of having subs randomly put around the room while you can phase and time align the speakers this will then only give you a result in one spot, but this can also be detrimental while this can create nodes in other parts of the room that can then be detrimental to the sound in the listening position, I could show you this on a pro speaker simulation program, would also be interesting to see the measured results using for example AMFG SysTune (Berlin boys! Maybe you should give them a visit).
What you should be trying to do with multiple subs is arrange them into some system that focuses the energy and has a beam formed cardiod pattern, in this way you maximise the sound in the listening area and minimise the amount of energy going to near boundaries and corners, this then gives you a far larger and even SPL area with minimised build-up in corners etc. the aim should be to set up the subs in such a way that they are then producing one coherent wave focused on the listing area and minimising energy build up at boundaries or in corners. If you have enough subs you can also place them in the build up areas and use them to destructively dissipate the energy there, you can buy subs that do that automatically, they have a built-in microphone and dsp and they then „remove“ the bass energy locally to where they are placed. If you are ever in Hannover send a message and I can show you a venue where I have such a system built in.sorry for being so long winded, it is basically very dry science at the end of the day, physics…..schön Tag noch!
Well, this has just thrown a spanner in the works, I have an M33 and was considering switching out for Michi Pre/Power to drive a pair of B&W 804d4 and hope by the time I do it, there will be a new iteration of the Michi range with full streaming (roon ready specifically) and HDMI eArc. Looks like this might be the business.
BTW, NAD is a TLA so it should be spelled out! 😄
New Acoustic Dimension there N.A.D.