Correcting Bump Steer using Lasers and a Welder.
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- čas přidán 23. 05. 2022
- Today on The Skid Factory AL Fits up the Hopper Stoppers Brake Kit and Explains what Bump Steer is and how we can fix it in our application.
Al is deep into converting his 1968 MS55 Toyota Crown from a rear-mounted Steering box and linkage to a forward-mounted Steering Rack setup.
One of the major things to consider when modifying the steering system is Bump Steer which can cause all sorts of problems whilst on the road.
Hopper Stoppers Brake Kits are ADR Approved and are made for HEAPS of different models, Checkout their website and get in contact with the team to enquire about your car here:
hoppers.com.au
Thanks to our legendary mate Matt for his Help and Expert CAD designs and advice.
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Please note: We like to make interesting car mods and show you how we've gone about it, but we can't promise that anything we show you will work for your particular car, or that you won't harm yourself, someone else, your car or your warranty doing it. Please be safe, be responsible and unless you know what you're doing, do not fool around with very serious machinery just because you've seen us make it look so easy. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Hopper Stoppers Brake Kits are ADR Approved and are made for HEAPS of different models!
Find a Kit HERE: hoppers.com.au
FFS look at the welding splatter on the brand new brake rotors not hard to protect with a bit of scrap panel steel AUSSIE HACKERS!!!
@@patverry8926 it'll be gone the first time they hit the brakes. Spatter mostly doesn't stick very firmly.
@@patverry8926 FFS, the word is "hacks" not "hackers"🤦
Either way, I doubt Al or Woody give a crap that you think they're hacks 😅
Gunna be a pedant here, sorry, are they actually ADR approved or just tested? The Department of Infrastructure doesn't normally approve components like this for aftermarket use. The component approval number system is normally provided to components that are being fitted to new vehicles like lights, truck brake systems and bus chassis.
Next week on The Skid factory: Ackerman!
That face - when you suggest setting up the bumpenstein mk9 again on the side that's already been done :D
Hahaha well spotted a mix of wtf and oh maybe thats a good idea........
Top effort Al.
There's a LOT of factory cars on the road that are nowhere near that close to right.
Well done 👌
Only turbo toyotas are built perfect
@@krispykruzer turbo toyota by master yoda
@@alexkatana toyodas
Alan or Woody there's a perfect name for the Build right there Toyoda Crowned.
Got me wanting to check my ford pinto... but then I'd have to fix it!
Nice work boys! Steering geometry is one of the most complex aspects of vehicle dynamics, therefore it's one of the most misunderstood aspects. Even OEMs struggle to get everything perfect simply due to packaging constraints, so you've done really well to get the bumpsteer down to reasonable amounts.
Awesome practical explanation guys, thank you. That weld spatter on those new disks are going to give your brakes some real grippy stopping power.
Hi Al and Woody. Perfect timing on this episode. I'm building an lc tranna and am going through the steering system to remove the factory installed bump steer. And also add electric power steer using a prius steering column and eps ecu. Please let your viewers know who you get to billet cnc the new steering arms as I would like to use them myself.
They will be hand milled not cnc.
Like Al, I did my apprenticeship doing wheel alignments. Holdens and shims were not too bad as there was a massive tolerance for camber and castor on them.
Fords you needed to do them in a sequence: camber then castor, recheck camber because moving the castor rod used to adjust camber too. Once you got that right then you did toe...then it was all fucked up the first pot hole the driver hit (XF Falcons were the worst).
By far the hardest of that era, I think anyway, was the venerable old Valiant. They had 2 camber pins on the upper arm and if the pivot point on the chassis wasn't rustednoff the camber pins used to be seized solid. As with the Falcons the camber castor adjustment was a balancing act.
Al is right, the struggle is real and cars are mostly just toe and go these days.
That's some super knowledge and patience you've got there Al
I told my mum about it.she said good to see 2 lads living the dream.
So, umm, so, cracking ep! Having been through the joys of working out steering arm angles for converted tow trucks, I didn't envy the head scratching in this one.
Props for another episode *aligning* with my interests!
Loving the content gents. Love all the changes to the front end. Stuff people would never see.
Can tell you Hoppers sorted in the brake conversion in 2003-2004ish.
A certain white wagon was the first done.
Looking good mate. I need my own Bumpmaster 80000 :D
Super informative guys, cheers. Loving how in-depth you're getting on this build, it's going to be a cracker.
I started wheel alignments on a Hunter Light align, had to do run out and set up but learned a lot doing it that way. Now I do alignments at home with string and a measuring tape only because the kids with the new machines don’t understand the angles only that it’s in the “green” and OK. Always learning things, thanks!
Yep ours was a hunter light beam job. Had to reverse cars on to do rear alignment.
Al has got to be one of the highest quality car builders on the interwebz. Hugh wealth of knowledge, attention to detail, zero compromise and super interesting projects.
Great vid and great results, well done. The last shot with 4X Woody had me in stitches. GOLD!! ;-)
That was another really interesting episode, another very informative channel is Superfast Matt, his current projects are a Honda S600 with a 180hp bike engine in it that he does track days with a 1950 Jaguar that he has Tesla swapped and a land speed bike engined project that he has completely designed from the ground up in CAD. Nice shout out to BOM.
I always enjoy your videos guys, but this one was especially interesting. I did a rack conversion on an Argentine Falcon wagon years ago and got loads of bumpsteer, wish we had done this! By the way, I believe the Argentine-built Falcons are Australian design, including the engines. Thanks from a half Canadian/half Argentine. Cheers!
Awesome vid.....top marks Woody on the animations, your production skills are stepping up.
They called it Radial Tuned Suspension to suit the 'modern' Radial Ply tyres when they moved from Cross Plys.
I believe the main change was from positive camber under bump to negative camber. Check out some of the late 60s early 70s car chases and watch the direction of the top of the front wheels, or better still, check out the wheel angles on 1940s grand prix cars. lol
awesome video fellas, always learning new stuff when watching you guys.
Really impressed with the cumulative display of brain power that came up with the solutions I just witnessed. Heeps of thanks for the eye opening trip down new info lane. 👍👍
You should mention the pivot point of the bottom suspension arm should ideally be at the same pivot point of the inner rack end.
This is a common mistake and can not only affect bump steer but also cause binding in extreme cases.
Center steer racks work better even though they break all the rules with pivot points but they just take up too much space.
If you mentioned it in a previous vlog and I missed it then forget I mentioned it !
You should also check you are still getting tow out on turns after modifying the knuckles.
Back in the day Falcon xd-xf stub axles on Crowns was common and from memory 1 ball joint needed replacing to do this ( can't really remember which one but the bottom I think ) so you got the whole Falcon brake package steering knuckles and stubs.
What a mixture; old age and treachery, coupled with youth and exuberance. When Blair told you to get on the CZcams train, did you ever conceive having a quarter of a mill subscribers? You both deserve it. Thanks for your company.
Doing a rack install on my 84 rx7 from the steering linkage, this helped tremendously and I have been watching for quite sometime. Thanks guys keep up the great work!
Try to keep your tie rods the same length between pivots. The height and the distance from axle centerline is all critical. You can compensate for the mount position with the height of the outer tie rod too. I had a 85 gsl but I can't remember if it's front or rear steer. If you can mimic everything but with a rack it's the way to go.
Such great knowledge I'll be needing when putting a power rack in a mk 2 Jag. Very helpful.
"HI EVERYBODY" still makes me laugh every time. 😂🤣
Dr Nick lives on at the skid factory
Hi Noctor Dick!
Commenting for support
Super informative video! That is a lot of calculations and thinking to get it right. Good work Al!
i work at bob jane and i can agree that they push the wheel outward to make it look way worse than it already is lmao. reason being is customers get the shits about paying for an alignment if the toe etc is only a minute bit out so they make it look worse so the customers happy.
insanely good explanation of the steering geometry too, was put into quite basic terms so even those who can't quite understand complex things like that can actually grasp some sort of concept. absolutely love listening to you explain things, so educational and not one bit confusing.
can't wait for next weeks vid
I was really starting to get worried that you were just going to weld that back together!! Thanks so much for giving us a full blow explanation as to why you have to watch that angle so closely and that you're going to make it out of one piece right on!!!!
All the best from Surrey BC Canada
Can't wait to see the shed skids and the first trip down the strip .
The outtakes are gold; definitely keep adding those in.
What about some outtake shorts? Exploit the algorithm!
I love how in-depth this is. I did manual rack conversion on a Saab 900 race car and introduced a lot more rake with shimmed upper wishbones . This kind of stuff is still fascinating.
this is why you `re great guys, love too see it, some of us asked you for this, and behold, this is just great and informative, cheers !
Quite possibly the best episode ever de- mystifying the black art of bump steer and ackerman
Great information guys. Will become very useful when I put AU front suspension and steering into an ED. Also 22:22
You can never have too many Matt's!
soo many matts, they need more nicknames like sketch
The Dr Nick thing still cracks me up!
Nice to see Al on his channel.
Burnt fingers from doing shim adjustment on alignments for LH and LX V8 Toranas with extractors. Radial Tuned Suspension ha! Quarter deg neg camber and ona and a half degrees positive castor on pre-RTS had them handling pretty good for the era
Awesome video fellas loving the content and loving the crown
Ya cruel bastard Woody the outtakes are a um crackup.
Welcome to the Skid Factory! We've got Steering Racks, Storage Racks and Rhodesian Ridgebacks!
Brilliant!
Hell yeah, this was a really cool video. I love this nerdy stuff!
another great video as always Al n Woody, having heaps of bump steer issues on my r31 with s13 front suspension, might have to put some of these theories to test.
Wow. Made video. So good to learn these sorts of things.
The bumpmatic 8000 will only work with the mirror in place as the wheel moves in and out relative to the vehicle centerline and since the target moves with the wheel it automatically takes this into account. Bumpsteer is a very complex problem and even the maths can sometimes fail to solve it and you have to resort to trial and error.
Cheers guys, great informative episode.
You should be selling counterfeit beer drinking merchandise. Maybe with lemon squash
Great video, I learned a lot, thanx for the info
Very interesting as usual.
u are a legend Al!
Good info guys keep up the good work
Loving the full intro 👌
Awesome episode...
That was a awesome video. Thank you very much.
The dark arts. It's not for mere mortals. Nice one boys!
There's a good video on bump and akerman on Fanatik builds from his shed in Canada.
I'm so keen to see the hako rip!
From my observations of cutting and welding steering arms, and driving the car to see what happens (prototype 4x4 Moke, you'd love the jank engineering in it): You can get away with a fair few mm of toe in on compression, but boy howdy if it's toe out by even a mm you have problems.
I found that it was easiest to get close by approximating the relationship between the height of the rack, specifically the balljoint on the rack end, the height of the inner balljoint/pivot on the LCA, and subsequently the balljoints for each on the knuckle. I didn't do mathematics, more just visualised it with my hands like I was at a rave, and got it right fairly easily.
I had fun and the car hasn't crashed yet.
Amazing knowledge and explanation turbo yoda
I’m on a same deal with my 🏎. Thanks lads!
good stuff mate
Impressive Al
Serious episode!!!!! Not one lemon squash consumed throughout very informative and edumacational though!!!👍🍻
tremendous work Allen, regards, Cain
Great stuff lads, onya
That was great Al. Now I understand why my XL Falcon back in the 80s was so terrible with a mix of XB and XL front suspension 😂😂🤣🤣
rly rly rly nice !
That's great fellas reckon you could also do a follow up on how scrub radius can be affected by changing wheel offset? I've heard that can exacerbate bump steer issues
i wouldn't have the patience to do that. going to be awesome
I learnt about Ackerman angle at a young age when I was building my own go kart. I put the steering arms near on straight and wondered why it had terrible understeer. Without the correct Ackerman angle, the inner and outer wheels won't turn in sync. The inner wheel needs to turn at a sharper angle as it does a smaller turning radius then the outer. With the Ackerman out the inner will turn at a lesser angle and the car will drive like shit.
thanks for the info mate. I was wondering about that.
That's actually where I learned about the importance of good steering geometry as well, I never put the time in to figure out what was wrong though
London Taxi *party trick*
Wow! Al looks good in glasses (speaking from one who has worn them since her was two).
Good vedio Guys.. All the best
I have a jam label on my MIG handpiece that says "check gas". Glad to see it's no just me.
Worse on a tig lol. Cut, regrind the tungsten🤦♂️
Sweet
That’s pretty cool shit think I grasped some of it bump steer would prob be a dangerous scenario u can get tram tracking on motorcycles which is a prick the acuracy at which the new arms r made and the material and mounting must b critical. She’s gonna b a beast luv this build and the hako 👍👍👍💕
check bump at angle... it will be terrible around corners. couldn't see well enough in the video but rack ends need to be inline with inner pivot of the arms and they looked long. that will make bump steer blow out when turning. also scrub radius and the length of the tie rod arm will affect scrub radius, needs to be parallel with ball centers.. have done a bit of steering mods when racing back in the day.. make sure you check at steering angles NOT JUST STRAIGHT AHEAD.. keep it up boys well done with the math....
UMMMM LOL SOOO. Al knows what's up!. Good on ya boyz!.
So umm, that was great , congrats on getting it that close
Blows me away how much information is in alans head
I try to cut a score in the steering arm that runs level and straight forward and back. Then you can try to keep the angle of the hole for the tie rod end relatively in the right orientation.
Haha! Right as you are saying you can't use them. We can but don't be a dumb ass if you aren't capable of doing it correctly.
I always thought Radial Tuned Suspension was named as such to suit radial tyres (as opposed to cross ply)
My thoughts too bias tyres ran negitive castor and radials run positive castor generally
That's called marketing. They still had RTS badges on VN's.
With a steering box the arm moves through an arc. A steering rack just pushes and pulls in a linear motion. This explains alot about the different designs at the the hub end.
Love it 😎😎😎👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Love the videos. But how do hopper stoppers feel about the welding spatter on the new rotor 🤣
Another great episode thanks for sharing. Bolt on racks 🤣
In the uk , we fit a manual rack and add the electric assistance from the Vauxhall corsa .
on you alan, that was really good value, working that shit out is hard.....
Project binky have some real good info
Brilliant. Working it out rather than just buying kits and bolting them on.
THE BEST SHID TRACKTORY EVER UP LOADED !!!!!!!!!!! HANDS DOWN 100% AWESOME ... THANKS AL AND WOODEN AND THE DOG ( SNOOP )
GREAT WORK ..
Do you need some tow in under bump to counteract suspension bushes flexing under brakes ?
I thought that's what OEM are aiming for
a quick question about the bumpermatic8000. could a bit of the laser movement be change in camber? (or does it have equal lengths wishbones, so it shouldn't change camber?)
siiiick
I dig the Umm supercut