Joker vs Benchmade: What is the better value? (and why)
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- čas přidán 29. 11. 2022
- Hello, I just got my new Joker Lynx and I'm really excited by it and look forward to putting it through the paces. I compare it to my trust Benchmade Bushcrafter and try to quantify it's relative value compared to that of the Benchmade. The results might surprise you.
I have 3 Joker fixed blades, and they have really impressed me. I think they are an excellent value.
Do you have any lion steel or cudeman? Any comparisons
Me to I've got the lynx nomad and erizo
@@mtnboy123 I have lionsteel no cudeman
I brought a Joker Campero in 14c28n with olive wood handle , came with a good quality leather sheath . After several months of heavy use with only regular stropping the blade is still shaving sharp , a testament to the quality of the heat treatment . I'm in the UK and paid £65 , exceptional value for such a good knife .
Yeah, they really seem to know what they are about. cheers
Spain is in the production of knives what Germany is in the production of cars
How do you like the campero I've been eyeing it and the nesmuk lately
@@jeremysteckman1704 The Campero has proved to be a good workhorse . Thick enough to split wood but also good for feather sticks . I've processed a lot of wood and the blade always gets back to sharp with stropping . Not bad for food prep . The sheath still in good condition . I still give it top marks .
@@rickheasman8547 I've got the lynx nomad and erizo
Thanks for great research and thought-provoking perspective on labor rates and material breakdown. One of the great comments I got from someone had to do with how much supporting cost from grinders/sanding belts/drill bits the higher end steels (especially when heat treated well) require due to earlier wear, and also warranty costs that get amortized in. Great video - my Joker Ember is a champion budget fixie among more costly options from Casstrom Sweden and Escanaba Michigan.
Thanks for the comment. It's been cool to learn about a lot of the cool European steel and start to try it out. My only problem is that I'm running out of Niches to fill. I'll check out your suggestions.
Yup, I’ve been watching knife factory tour videos and bench made made a similar comment. They are optimized to work in S30v and stepping upto s90 is very hard on their equipment. I also suspect it is longer to put edge on. It been interesting learning about the manufacturing processes. The Mora video is particularly interesting and shows how they can do their knives for 15$. All about automated production vs. hybrid production vs. hand made.
Did you even know that Casström in Sweden has some of it's models made by the Joker factory in Spain. Same as the British TBS knives. You are just paying double the price for them.
I own many Bark River, LT Write, and others but my go to knife always seems to be the Joker Nomad or the Canadiense!
The Canadiense has the best handle of any knife, In my opinion!
I carry Bradford knives in Magnacut but when it comes to serious stuff like a trip knife I go to my $100 knives or my Mora Gerburg because they are work horses at an easily replaceable price point. I am planning on picking up the Joker. It looks perfect for food prep. It's hard to beat a high value knife like a Mora or a Joker.
Both the Mora and Joker have a certain beauty to them and I think you can't go wrong with either decision. I recently picked up a Cudeman bush crafter, and it is very similar to the Joker. A little better steel (supposedly) with a touch lower price point than the joker. The company's factory is in the same town and business park as Joker, and their materials and mfg processes are very similar. I'll get a review of it out eventually. The knife drawer is kind of full right now.
I use the Benchmade Lifesharp service, which I find puts a better edge on the knife than what it ships with (I have a number of their knives that rotate through the lineup). For that, and made in America, I’m happy to pay more. It is a relationship with the brand, like L.L. Bean.
Being from Portland, I've got a lot of BM's and use the life-sharp fairly often. I'm on my third bush crafter (thank you local Crime scene) and when I bought my first one it was $150 and I could justify it because I used it both for outdoor activities and it helped me in remodeling houses. Now that they are in the $300 range, I hate to take it out of the house because I don't want to loose it. If you'r a collector, I understand the difference but tools ultimately need to be affordable to the user. Thanks for the comment.
Very interesting video, a rare approach to knife making and inherent value, thanks for sharing!
thank you
I was fortunate enough to get my Benchmade 162 back before the price skyrocketed and it is still one of my favorite and most trusted field knives. It isn’t for everyone’s taste, but it does everything I need it to do with no difficulty.
Same here. I picked up an extra one at the REI closeout on the knife. I think I paid like $120. Figure it is a good investment. Cheers and thanks for watching.
Benchmade cannot ever be considered a better value, but they don't pretend to be that at least. Very well thought out and explained!
Thanks for watching. Ironically since the prices jumped on these I’ve seen them on sale a bunch. Not sure if it was retailers closing out of stock.
Micarta is my favorite handle material for a fixed blade knife. I must say that Micarta wells when exposed to moisture. This grip material expands and contracts while holding moisture against the blade tang. The BM162, which uses G-10 scales, is grippy and is consistent in terms of staying the same size.
S30V was specifically designed for knives by the legendary knife maker, Chris Reeves. That is the reason for the price disparity.
Good points, I live in a relatively dry climate. It would be interesting to see how the Micarta does in high humidity conditions. As for the S30v the base material costs are a few dollars more than B695 per unit. You could argue that the machining and finishing of S30V requires special equipment due to it's hardness but It's not that much harder than the 695. Maybe a few HRC points. I think the bottom line is that Bechmade just has a higher mark up than the Joker. Compare to a ESSE 4 in S35V for $140 on amazon.
I like both knives Benchmade, USA and Joker, Espana. Awesome review! Though I’m scared of loosing my prized blades outdoors, I just carry my Kansbol.
Yeah, I’ve had a few stolen and done others disappear into the house somewhere. I do carry cheaper blades for this reason but there are some great low cost/high value options out there. Garberg co es to mind as well as SOG Tellus
You pay for the name .
Agreed. I think people get really caught up in "super steels", designers and brand names. Marketing.
Don't they say when you buy benchmade, you pay butterfly tax 😄
Thanks for bringing out the differences.
You bet!
Love this video! Thanks for doing the research to give us real numbers, I like benchmade but they’re always overpriced. Glad to see that brought to light a bit! And going to go buy a Joker now 😅
Sure, thank you for watching. The Jokers are a strong value although I think with their success are starting to creep up in price. I would also take a look at the other offerings made in Albeceta such as Cudeman or CDS. Also, a slightly more expensive offering (but worth it) is the lion steel. czcams.com/video/87GSHDaGHZE/video.html
Recently purchased the Joker Ember with Curly Birch handle scales and a Sandvick 14c28n blade. It came with a beautiful leather sheath that included a dangler, fire steel lop, and fire steel with a matching birch handle. All of this cost $119.99 as a total package, thus making the cost of the Benchmade all the more laughable.
Sounds cool. It’s always a pleasure to have a finely crafted tool for everyday use. Cheers
Thanks for a very well thought out and researched video. I've always thought benchmade was overpriced. I used to look to Condor, which is made in El Salvador, to offset costs but the craftsmanship didn't get close to Benchmade. This joker is much closer in comparison with the craftsmanship & quality control of Benchmade. I also have the Gerber which is a great bang for the buck and came surgical sharp. I just subscribed. Keep the good stuff coming.
Sure, no problem. Joker is just one of a number of companies out of Albacete Spain. I would check out the Cudemans and Nietos also. They are very similar to the price point, materials and workmanship of the Jokers.
I got the Bushcrafter for $162 on a major close out sale so I’m happy with that number but I wouldn’t touch the thing for $270.
Isn't that crazy. I think the first one I owned was retail $170 about 10 years ago. That was stolen in a robbery and insurance bought me a new one. I suspect there is about 40% markup on these so $160 sounds right. I recently picked up one at the REI returns section for $118 without box. Not trying to one up, just a good place to keep an eye on for great deals and they carry Benchmade, Silky, Gerber, and a bunch of other decent brands.
@@mtnboy123 man I heard you in the video and now in this comment and I was shocked. Is it really that bad over there? Like it sounds like robbery and house intrusion is a normal Tuesday afternoon.
4:49 “thank you crackheads” haha. Great video. Love the depth of the content and breakdown of costs. First time watcher. Just subbed.
Welcome aboard!
You need to take a short course in manufacturing economics. A lot of costs you didn’t consider. Made in the USA, worth the extra dollars in my book. Good video. Thanks for sharing.
Agreed, without going to school do you have any suggested references?
for the profit wise don't forget that retail has its profit, for knives (from end price) probably 30-40% which covers shipping etc.
And the manufacturer has to make a profit as well.
So a 100$ knife is probably 60$ for the retailer.
My grandpa taught me a lot about knives and one thing he taught me is that there are old wives tales about knives and how they can bring you. Good luck or bad luck. For example, whenever you give somebody a knife, you will sever that relationship. My grandpa always told me to carry a nickel in my pocket so I would have something to Purchase a knife off of him that he would want to gift to me. Another old wives tale is that if you steal a knife, you will cut yourself with it. 8:13
These tales are true. The very old but 'new' version of it is that if you don't pay for it it will cut your friendship. So you pay with a dime. The actual even older story is about ownership and responsibility. If you give or loan somebody a knife, in the old days, you did keep your responsibility for everything that happens with the knife. Even stabbing another person. So to not be responsible for anything that the knife was used for you had to sell it since that would transfer responsibility. So that's the actual historical reason behind paying with a coin for the knife.
I used to have a silver dollar my great-grandfather carried with him through the deprecation. As long as he had a dollar in his pocket, he was ok with all the other hardship. Sadly, that dollar was recently taken in a robbery. My lesson was was that It should stay in my pocket.
I’m real sorry to hear that. Perhaps it will show up somewhere locally. Maybe a pond store. Today’s society may be a little worse off than it was during the depression. People in that time era were only stealing to feed themselves usually. Now who knows why they take things, most likely for self indulgence. i’ve had things, missing out on my house, usually it’s someone that knows you very well. Sometimes you have to keep a better eye on the people closest to you.
I’ve lived in the Philippines the past year and a half and I have a friend who is a blacksmith, he’s made about 14 knives for me so far that I will take back to the US with me , many different bushcraft designs and I make the leather sheath’s, I’ve used different exotic hardwood for the handles and some are water Buffalo horn, good quality and I pay about 16 US dollars per knife 👍😁
Sounds like the start of a hood business. What type of steel does the blacksmith use?
@@mtnboy123 it’s leaf springs from jeeps
@@mtnboy123 they are for my own collection 👍
That's a good break down. I like all the joker line of knives
Have you any experience with the cudeman line of knives. Seems very similar.
@@mtnboy123No I don't however I think you're right and they are similar.
@@mtnboy123 I have. Also with Nieto and Aitor from Spain. The Cudeman MT-1 to MT-5 are very well used knives by bushcraft and survival instructors in South America. When you look at the Joker line of knives and on your Lynx you see a BS-9 stamp on the blade. This means approved by Grupo BS-9, being 9 bushcraft and survival instructors giving their approval to the knife. You will see this stamp of approval also on some other Spanish manufactured knives.
For the Joker line of knives that have this stamp they are all designed by J. Sabater (also on the blade) who is a great knife designer. Where I personally prefer no jimping at all, like on the Joker Ember, some people like jimping.
Sorry for the long review
I live in the mountains of northern Canada and I use my knives a lot. I purchased my Bushcrafter 4-5 years ago.
First of all, the factory leather sheath is horrible. I almost lost my knife 2 times before ordering a custom one (80$). For a 250$ or so (back then) knife I would’ve love to see them upgrade the sheath over the years, there’s TONS of bad reviews on it yet they never bothered changing it. There’s also a variation with a kydex sheath but I perfer leather.
I live in a very wet environnement so I need good corrosion resistance, thats why I ended up purchasing this knife. The S30V wont rust easily and my knife dont have any corrosion spot. The blade will keep an edge for a long time but keep in mind it is harder to sharpen than most carbon steel.
I really love the shape of the handle. Some people are skeptical when seeing it but (for me) it is perfect. I prefer Micarta over G10 though…but that’s just a matter of personal preference. Recently one scale started to split from the tang, I’ll have to send it for warranty.
I really love the knife overall, its a good all around performer, from processing wood, fire crafting, skinning, etc. But as much as I love it it’s been in my drawer for few months now and there are many more knives that will perform the same or better than this knife for a fraction of the price.
Thanks for the comment. We agree about the sheath. I was just reviewing jokers bushcraft knife and the sheaths are night and day. I even compared it to the BM pukko sheath which is an evolution of the BM bushcrafter sheath and it is still cheap and underwhelming.
Also I was reviewing a recent SOG offering that had a great knife with a poor sheath and realize that for fixed bladed, the steel is only half the equation.
Cheers
Truth be told that benchmade bushcrafter is an excellent blade
It is. One point I forgot to discuss was that it was one of the first dedicated bushcrafters to hit the wider market. Back then there weren’t too many options for a heavy duty knife that wasn’t a hunting or combat configuration. The EOD troopers in Iraq started to include them in their kits and BM even made them a special edition.
My disappointment with the benchmade was the size. For a robust knife I would have expected a thicker blade and better grind.
Yeah, despite the name I don’t think bushcraft was the only anticipated use. At the time BM didn’t really have as thick of a knife and bushcrafts were still more fringe. I think they were trying to branch out into the soldier world with it. Troops were still in Iraq and Afghanistan then. Thus the alter ego “EOD” in desert tan. Less tactical and more workhorse.
The blade seems plenty thick to me
I like the looks of the joker a lot more than the bench made and the hollow pins are dirt and blood collectors , I’ll buy a joker 👍😁
I’m not much of a hunter but your absolutely right. The BM would be difficult to clean in the field.
@@mtnboy123 they are both quality knives but I think the Joker is a better value for the money, thanks for your comment 👍😁
Aside from the steel, I like the Joker better.
Thanks for watching
Most people have no idea what the costs of American made knives are with hand work. Taxes are obscene.
Yes, that is a difficult thing to compare. Europe has the VAT, value added tax that get applied to materials for each step of the process where I'm not sure if there is a US counterpart. The US really has it's share of hidden taxes (fuel, inventory, sales) and fees (license, utilities). Because these the full costs are not apparent, it is hard to figure out relative bases costs and compare. Now with the new round of "Carbon offset" taxes, there will be a whole new round of costs that are hidden from the consumer.
where did you find the stock pricing for both steels
I googled and found a company out of New Jersey who stocks the materials. I used screen shots in the video but am not sure if the company name was there.
I had a Benchmade 162 in the mail that was supposed to be delivered today but unfortunately the post office messed it up. Actually the Chinese have been making knives for thousands of years and they are the world's largest shipbuilders so obviously they know how to make high quality Steel. It's just that business people go there and buy the cheap stuff to sell to us back home to make profit. I have a 25 year old Chinese Kitchen butcher night that is still razor sharp today and it's only been honed on a steel. However I bought it where the Chinese people buy their knives at a Chinese butcher shop and that's where you get the good quality stuff.
I’d watch this video from Dutch bushcraft knives. They really breakdown how well the high “quality” knock off are. It’s a shame they do t put a little more effort into the steel. Kiser and othe mfg.s certainly have access to good metals. czcams.com/video/zZ4TkQYVoQc/video.htmlsi=GvpzVEtW9lzV3SOt
@@mtnboy123 Actually some knife makers in China like Kubey knives buy high quality Steel from Germany Etc. Also if you were to spend $300 on a chinese-made knife, that was actually made for the Chinese and not for export you would get a very high quality knife. Way back in the old days the Chinese knife makers would plunge their hot metal swords through the bodies of their enemies while they were tied up of course. They thought that it would give extra spiritual strength to their swords but actually it was adding carbon. To make their swords they would fold the metal over multiple times to give strength and flexibility. As I mentioned before the Chinese have been making knives for thousands of years and all we see is the cheap stuff because they keep the high quality stuff for themselves. If it says made in China written in English that's the junk they sell us but if it says made in China written in Chinese like it does on my kitchen knife that's the high quality stuff. As I mentioned I have a 25-year-old chinese-made knife that is still a razor sharp today and I use it everyday. It's only been home on the steel I bought the same day and the original Edge is still barely showing. If they are the world's largest shipbuilders obviously they know how to make high quality Steel.
I recently got the Benchmade 162. It's a nice knife but overpriced. As to the Chinese, they are the world's largest shipbuilders and have been making knives for thousands of years so I'm pretty sure they know how to make high quality steel if they want to. It's just that we buy the cheap stuff to make profit.. If you were to spend $300 on a chinese-made knife it would be something very special but you can only get those in China. I have a 25-year-old chinese-made kitchen butcher knife that is still razor sharp and I use it everyday in the kitchen. It has only been maintained on a owning steel I bought the same day. I bought it in a Chinese butcher shop which Imports high quality knives directly from China. But you won't find these on Amazon Etc. I mainly bought the Benchmade for the name and reliability of the product. But it's my first five quality fixed blade. I will have a look at Joker knives one day when I can afford another one.
I do not expect a 300 dollar knife to outperform a 150 dollar piece. You reach a certain level of physics and then it is somewhat done. Design is priceless, however, and good design is cheap to do if the users decide.
That the question. Is a 300 dollar knife 2x better than a 150 dollar knife? I think the answer is no. I suspect if you came up with a credit system to quantify it, you would see a set of logarithmically diminishing returns. A $50 knife is probably 2x better than a $25 knife but the $300 knife is only 0.2 x better. Even if you bought a $300 knife, would you even use it as intended or would it be part of a collection to preserve it's value.
Check out the hultafors GK and be prepared to have your biases broken
@@TheBootyWrangler I have that one. It is a good knife for women.
I am from Spain, a machinist in a factory I would suppose would earn between 8 and 9$ per hour after taxes. Before taxes might be around 12$. 14$ per hour would be a high paying salary in Spain. And I am talking someone with experience. People that just started might be earning between 5 and 7$ per hour.
Now, I don't work in that industry so I might be wrong but I would expect something like that. People with plenty of experience might be far above the 14$ mark and it might average to that.
Great comments, I was really trying to get at the labor cost with this. I didn't realize that Spains wages were that low for skilled craftsmen. I would suspect 2 to 3x more in the US. It also sounds like there is more of a culture around the "skill" part of the process in Spain than in the US that uses more automation. thank you.
@@mtnboy123 You are welcome! Spain has a lot of tradition around metalwork in some regions. I would say most of our brands focus on skills and craftsmanship because it's easier to compete there against giants from other more industrially powerful countries and because the tradition and skills are there.
In any way I am sure the American knives that you showed are amazing. It is just that like you say, labor is far more expensive and maybe material as well. Might be that logistics here are easier since the industry has been around for centuries, I don't know. Amazing knives both of them either way!
People buy Air Jordan's for the NAME...Benchmade is no different. Benchmade is a great product , no doubt. Yet Bench wins on details, the intangibles so to speak.
Agree. You can definitely see that exemplified in the evolution of certain knives with the all the variants. 940 is a good example with a multitude of sizes, scale materials, auto, etc.
I went with the joker 🎉
nice!
If you want a Benchmade for Bushcraft the 200 Puukko in 3V. Way better than the Bushcraft and way cheaper.
Yeah, that looks like a nice knife. A bit short for batoning but they make a longer version called the luko I think. I found a good deal on the puuko and ordered it. I’ll do a video on it and a mora. Cheers
I got both. To me they are both great and have different uses.
Got BPS Adventurer - more knife for less money..
Thank you for watching
The benchmade sheath is meh. The hand ergonomics makes sense when you fidget with it. Big difference is the sharpening choil.
A shame about the sheath. I do like the plastic insert but the leather is thin and I don’t like the belt attachment . I end up sticking it in my pocket. I do really appreciate how long it holds an edge and resist pitting.
Just got my first Joker. The only thing I found disappointing was that I didn't get one sooner. The fit and finish has me blown away. I have my reservations about buying non US made tools, but man I had no idea Spain could crank out such a quality knife! Great video sir!
Thank you for watching. I have a few jokers and Cudeman (another Spanish mfg) videos to also watch. Cheers
Also the Benchmade comes with a really crappy thin leather sheath. The Joker Lynx you have a choice between a well made kydex sheath with optional matching firesteel or a very thick leather well crafted sheath with that same option. So no matter how you look at it Joker wins. Not surprisingly since the knife making tradition in that region is older than the USA.
The Kydex for the joker does cost more than the leather but is worth it. I got a BM kydex sheath for the bushcrafter and it was very simple but didn’t cost much. It was originally sold with the EOD version of the knife. I ended up with a dangler and that works fairly well.
@@mtnboy123 Yeah. I prefer kydex most of all because I like being on or around water. Still I would prefer if Joker had the kydex option for all their models even at more cost.
Not sure how you got the numbers for spanish labour costs. Disclaimer i am not from spain so my numbers can be as wrong, but when i looked up what employees in the metal working sector get paid in spain i came across an income range between around 1200 and 3000 € 14 times a year before taxes. If we go to the lower end of 1200€ for 40 hours that would make 30€ per hour as labour costs. But if we take into account that it is paid 14 times a year and there still are only 12 months it's actually 1400 per month and thus 35€ per hour.
At the current exchange rate (if google didn't cheat on me) that would make 37$ and 19 cents per hour.
(Sure that't not what the person gets transferred to their bank account as taxes ect. are taken off before that and you only get what you can actually use transferred but the calculation in the video was about labour costs and not earnings of the labourer.)
Spoken like a good CPA or Chartered accountant. I did pretty basic research just to get a feel for the differential between costs. There are also differences in taxes, business fees, VAT, cost in large urban centers vs smaller areas. It would be an interesting thesis for a MBA. I think the main point was that the labor costs weren't 1/3 of those in the US so there is probably a high margin in the US. I've been doing a deep dive on the different approaches to production that is present in Portland, Mora, Manage, Soligen etc for their knife industries and it has been facinating and reflected in the type and nature of their products. I look forward to doing a video on this, but it is a lot of info and a challenge to tell that story. thank you and cheers
@@mtnboy123 😁 I'm not anything close to an accountant, i'm in engineering and usually am extremely uninterested in finacial calculations. I was just curious because here in europe we always hear from big (international and domestic) corporations that labour costs in europe are way higher than in asia and even in the US. (as a reason for them to go elsewhere)
The point you tried to make (i think) was even more highlighted with what i found.
In my opinion "made in america" in some cases is used like a cheat code for some corporations to charge more money from their fellow citizens while making them believe that it's only due to higher labour costs.
A video about different approaches in production sounds quite interesting! (and as you said a lot of work) So thumbs up in advance for that!👍
I think the joker is definitely the better value, bohler steel will hold up to abuse better and micarta beats g10 any day, especially the way joker does their knives!
I’ve been thinking about a suitable reply for a few days. Even spent some time with both in hand pondering it. The BM is materially and design wise a better knife but at 2 to 3 times the cost. I thing the joker is a much better value and speaks to me a little more in terms of the hand made quality. The s30v not only stands up to abuse better but doesn’t pit on the blade edge as readily as the bohler. My experience and maybe others is different. The g-10 has rougher quality that results in a better traction for grip. I prefer the lynx handle shape and is more flexible. I also much prefer the kydex sheath of the lynx. I still think the lynx works for me better overall but that would be different with a better BM sheath.
Mtnboy, joker bohler 695 is very much like gerbers 420hc. Their heat treat makes this knife very tough. I’ve had s30v snap on me, but both the bohler 695 and 420hc are tough as hell with a lot of abnormal abuse. Steels with high hardness such as the “super steels” aren’t as tough as aus8,aus10a, 8Cr14MoV or 420hc . Yes they will hold an edge longer, but don’t sharpen up as fast and in the field this is imperative.
As Dr. Larrin Thomas statet:
Edge geometry is more important than the steel material...
For what? Edge retention, efficiency at cutting, resiliency under hammering. That is what makes the topic so interesting, the multi-variate nature of the uses, materials, manufacturing, etc. makes is a fun question to ponder and test. For these two knives where I have used them to batton, carve and chop I have found the Benchmade hold's its edge better and is less susceptible to pitting. I suspect this is due to the double bevel on the saber grind and the superior metal. Sharpening the Lynx is much easier than the bench made, where the steel just feels more resistant to sharpening (and they're fore dulling). Thanks for the referral regarding Dr. Thomas. I spent like an hour down that rabbit hole and learned a lot. Cheers and thanks for commenting.
Dr. Thomas devides three grades of steel: toughness, balanced and edge retention. The edge design and the material have to match, and most customers rely only on steel.
🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸🇪🇸
thanks for watching
Got my bushcrafter for 160$, once a knife gets discontinued my knife dealer sell em for whole sale price
Yes, with the new bushcrafters coming out, I’ve been seeing a lot of clearance. For $170, I’d still pickup especially compared to upper $300’s street price for new ones.
Especially since the older model is just to me personally better, and I’ve used both so I can respectfully put my three cents in
Made in USA evertime!!! 🇺🇸
Yeah, in this case the bench made is (as far as I know) USA made. There is a supply chain in Portland Or. that allows knife companies (Gerber, CRKT, Kershaw, ZT, Leatherman) to completely source within the US. This not only includes materials, but also services such as heat treatment, coating, laser engraving, scales, and 3d milling. In fact, touring the Benchmade factory, you can see most of the process on the factory floor (not sure about heat treatment though).
With some USA made knife companies, I'll research and watch factory tour videos and am not sure if the various inputs are all truly "USA made". It would be interesting to really dig into this and try to sus out the different between made and assembled in the USA. I like automobiles where they publish the % of foreign vs. local parts.
With all that said, the current bench made is $400+. I just can't justify buying a work knife at that price point when there are so many high quality alternatives out there. I feel like Benchmade is more of a collectors piece now than something your going to work with.
Im not sure why your benchmade was so expensive but i picked mine up for 160
Woe, that is a great price for a new in the box. I've noticed that my local REI in PDX is closing them out and they are just over $200 so great price.
Back when I bought my Benchmade Bushcrafter I paid $164 plus tax for it. I have a bunch of bushcraft knives and have to say the Benchmade Bushcrafter really does out perform all the others. That said, there is no way I would pay the current price of $270 for it. Benchmade's pricing has gotten totally out of hand. I wonder how much of that is due to the cost of manufacturing in a liberal stronghold.
I think it is catching up,with them. I noted that they were on close out at rei. They have carried the Bushcrafter for years and I suspect they just aren’t moving any more. Don’t know about the politics of it but there are a lot of newer business taxes in the portland metro area but I’m not sure if it would result in a doubling of costs.
Let's be true. Why spending that much money, for an nearly equal knive ?
Same with guitars made in the US, compared to european or chinese guitars... .
I dont understand the calculation of that companys 🤔
Best greatings from Germany.
I think my point was that you wouldn't. If you are strictly looking at it as a tool, I'd select the Joker. The slightly better metal doesn't justify the $200 delta. Yes, the Benchmade might have better heat treatment and a little more ergonomic handle, you could almost buy 3 for price of 1. Where the Benchmade is worth the extra money is if you are collecting. They really hold their value and often can represent a profit if you keep the box and paperwork with them.
@@mtnboy123 If you see it as a collector's item, I agree with you.-
If you only care about functionality, I would prefer a Mora knife. that is available for 15 € and can do almost the same as you can do with the two knives.... . Well, maybe it doesn't hold that edge and a wooden handle is probably nicer, but from the functionality alone, you could get along with it.
Yeah Mora is a great deal. To be fair, by the time you start to match the steel and weight of the knives, you creep up the Mora Ladder to more of their more expensive options. For example the Mora Basic 511 is just too light to chop and not a full tang knife. Cheers
@@mtnboy123 Benchmade is relatively new to the heat treatment game, like all American made knives are. Not blaming anyone but other countries have knife making traditions older than the USA itself. The house I live in is older than the USA. That of course does not mean that American made knives can't have collectors value since Americans love American made knives. I'm also not saying that American made knives can't be good. There are some that are really good indeed.
I have three Benchmade knives, I won’t buy anymore. I like them but for what you get you pay too much.
Agreed. Unless you find a major deal on one, it’s hard to justify buying anymore.
I take the Benchmade. Great knife.
thanks for the comment
The joker production its only in spain
Yes. I dug into the whole back story of the production of both Joker and Mora in another video. I horribly mispronounced the city name of Albacete. I also recently bought a Cudeman which is also from Albacete and is just as nice as the Joker. I'll have to do a review on that one also. Here is the link with the Mora/Joker video: czcams.com/video/Qul_RVpF7L8/video.html. Cheers
PS do you know much about the BS-9 group? I'm having trouble finding information them.
BS9 is a group that started with 8 youtubers and a person that design and made knives as a hobby. All of them design a lot of knives with Joker, and any other with Cudeman and J&V (another Spanish knive company). In the time, the people in the group was changing. José Savater (the principal designer) is the person refered on some of the Joker knives. He is working actually with Joker and has created his own company called Taxus. He have a knive (Taxus Habilis) that seems to he very interesting and I think that is made by Joker factory. Has a model of folding knive made with Taxus company. BS9 continue as a group without José Savater and another people that originally created this group and left the group. I think that is not expected to launch new models nearly as BS9 due to the crisis and the dificult of work with Spanish companies at this moment but José Savater continue work with Joker and develop new models like Joker Nomad 6.5'
Of you ever wanted to here someone sounding less informed with more information here ya go here’s your guy ….
thanks dude
Both of them are useless if you are trying to throw a spark with a flint. Also, neither have a 90 degree spine for a firesteel. Aside from that , I think Dutch Bushcraft Knives has already proven that Carbon Steel is superior in a Bushcrafting theater. Granted, both the Joker and Benchmade are nice knives, but Benchmade has an 300% markup from Production to Customer built into them, due to the high cost of Labor at $20 an hour. That's why companies like Morakniv, Joker, and even Condor can produce a superior product to US products, simply because they have the low labor costs. I won't touch a China knife, but Taiwan knives are awesome. Cold steel are a huge bang for the buck!
Hello, I've used the spine of the Benchmade to make fires with ferro rods so I know that is sharp enough. The Jokers' spine also seems pretty sharp. You could also use the Skull crusher. I'll look into labor rates in Sweden. Are all Mora's made in Sweden? 511?
All Moras are made in Sweden with a labour cost of about $20 per jour.
…hour.
Absolute rubbish! The Lynx I have has a 90 degree back and easily produces a ferry rod spark. Spend more time strengthening your wrists 🤣
I'm not buying a Benchmade. They are way overpriced. Since inflation they have gone up nearly 40%. I won't support greedy companies.
Thank you for watching. Your comments spawns the question “over how long was the 40% increase?”. “What was the national inflation rate for then?” “Was it greed or material costs? Etc. cheers
It's been about 2 1/2 years. In 2021 I was going to buy the benchmade crooked river for $175 at Sportsman warehouse. The knife now cost $275 or more depending on where you buy it from.
@@bryand2978 I did notice them on close out pricing at rei. Just over $200. Not sure if available online at that price.
Didn’t even have to watch the video. There’s no such thing as a better value when talking about the ridiculously overpriced benchmade.
Yeah, BM is rapidly going from a great high end work horse knife to a collectors knife. The new BM bushcrafter is Msrp of approximately $400. Crazy. I don’t care how good of a steel it is, i would not want to pound on it and use it hard. The video was my attempt at understanding the economics of the manufacturing processes and relative margins.
What can the benchmade do that the joker can't ??
Nothing, the joker wins hands down !!! It's a tool at the end of the day, you dont want to be scared to use it because it cost so much, waste of money and tool !!!
Using both fir a while now, the BM takes abuse a little better. I’ve put a number of small pits into the blade edge on the joker that came readily out with sharpening. The BM has better edge retention but also took me a lot more effort to RE sharpen. I agree that the joker is the better total package and value at current prices.