Philosophy of the Orphic Mysteries - The Derveni Papyrus - Myth of Orpheus and Ancient Greek Science
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- čas přidán 10. 06. 2021
- The Orphic Mysteries remain as obscure as they are fascinating. Indeed, they are responsible for the oldest surviving book manuscript in European history. Discovered in the charred remains of a funeral pyre, the Derveni Papyrus is an amazing combination of ancient Greek mystery religion and the scientific/philosophical revolutions of the 5th century BCE - here Orpheus meets Heraclitus and Anaxagoras.
#orphism #philosophy #mysteryreligion
Recommended Reading:
The Derveni Papyrus - 978-8822255679
Papadopoulou - An Introduction to the Derveni Papyrus - chs.harvard.edu/ioanna-papado...
Betegh - The Derveni Papyrus: Cosmology, Theology and Interpretation - 978-0521047395
Janko - The Derveni Papyrus ("Diagoras of Melos, Apopyrgizontes Logoi?"): A New Translation - www.jstor.org/stable/1215469
Conference - THE FIRST COLUMNS OF THE DERVENI PAPYRUS - • THE FIRST COLUMNS OF T...
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Being a Greek I can read ancient Greek too.
Thanks for the content, its all very interesting, have you done a video on the first origins of magic?
I have the monthly and I throw extras a few times a month. I watch CZcams (about five channels this one included) more than tv…twenty to one. My cost to say thanks is less than tv and I get 100x more from it. Esoterica is awesome!
Holy crap! A Tomb of Horrors reference! Don't take any jeweled skulls, my friend.
"The phallus swallowing version" made me laugh out loud.. some of the dry humor he injects is priceless.
We need a stone slab inscribed with all of Justin's one-liners
Then bury it so that archeologists 2500 years from now will puzzle over the esoteric significances.
Year 3023. "What did he meant with history, philosophy and religion? Is he talking about that Geist thing from that dude Hegel?"
The Stele of Snark?
..when wild Aristotles roamed the Earth..." 😂
So long as they're carved in at least two current languages and one dead one, to give some future archaeologist the privilege of finding "The Esoterica Stone," right next to all the plaques from CZcams.
Hell yeah. Or a top 12 T-shirt if the merch gods are listening. The time capsule thing is groovy too.
The deadpan dungeon master delivery is awesome. I laughed out loud thru the first half 😅
It is a joy to see someone who treats all of human culture as worthy of a mention in academic discussion.
An amazing text is an amazing text - doesn't have to be from my culture for me to be amazed by it.
@@TheEsotericaChannel I wish--especially as a speculative fiction writer--that more in my sometime field of academia would appreciate this.
“When wild Aristotle’s roamed the earth” 🤣🤣🤣 Wahoo Evil Dead references too! 🤣 Yess 🙌🏻 I’ve heard of this discovery and have been wanting to learn more about it. Thankyou sir!! I only recently discovered your wonderful channel and I am now a super fan 🌟 This pay day I am SO subscribing on Patreon! 💗✨🙌🏻
Well this one certainly lived up to the Esoterica logo, covering the arcane. philosophy and religion!
You've introduced me to something I had never heard of Dr S thanks for another mind bending episode!!!
This has been my favorite episode of ALL TIME. You're like: "Let me share a bunch of stuff that will likely-" and I'm like: Absolutlely capture my imagination with its potential for mystery- Sir, why do you think I'm here? LOVE this one!!!
Your channel is a hidden gem of CZcams 💎 📚
What a true treasure this channel is. Thank you Dr. Sledge
I love how humble you are in your disclaimer, and this makes your borderline self-depreciating humor all the more endearing; I am subscribing and I hope to hear more of your work soon.
You are absolutely my favorite channel. Thank you Dr. Sledge for sharing your wealth of knowledge and providing your sources.
The Chokeslam of the Absolute. There's a Tech-Death Metal album title if I ever heard one.
I am in love with the term *_"Fractal Ontology"._* As above, so below after all...
“What we have here is an esoteric text produced in a mystery religion being read to express what was, at that time at least, cutting edge philosophical and scientific theories, and then surviving until today after being burned with a Macedonian aristocrat probably in anticipation of securing a beneficent afterlife.” Dr. Justin Sledge on the Derveni Papyrus.
I would love even more content about Orphism 💜 I love your channel thank you!
"choke slam of the Absolute".
*WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DEWWWW WHEN THE CUNNING OF HISTORY COMES FOR YOU, B R O T H E R !*
@@TheEsotericaChannel announcer: AND JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS OVER FOLKS, HERE COMES NIETZSCHE WITH A WILL-TO-POWERSLAM!
@@dontchewglass Will-to-Power-Slam
@@TheEsotericaChannel at first I wanted to make a joke about Marx suplexing Hegel to "turn him on his head" but Will-to-Power-Slam just works much better
@@TheEsotericaChannel 😄
Your humour is deadly! This is a wondrous cave of splendours. And, the Lyre plays on...
I truly appreciate your introduction, along with all of your disclaimers, of this manuscript. I will be sure to check out other videos created by you. Thank you.
The instant the Derveni Krater popped up on screen it became my favorite piece of visual art ever, it is beautiful.
I tend to think spiritual texts are meant to be metaphorical in nature. They lend themselves then to a wide range of disciplines and philosophical thinking. Literalism kills them stone dead.
Fascinating discovery. Really intriguing for its time and connections to a range of narratives.
I am so excited to have found you - I've been looking for you a couple of years and here you are!
Esoteric glee! I love it! Good job, Dr. Sledge. I love your channel and always learn so much. Thank you.
You videos are like poetry to my ears! Thank you for the incredible research, good humor and beautiful philosophy
Each video of yours I consume broadens my mind on just how much more I need to chew through. Thankyou so much for your time to graciously lead us through such amazing near forgotten topics
This channel is amazing, every episode is so well done. I Wish I had this to watch as a kid
This is superlative content, you keep topping yourself. Wonderful. Thank you!
Your work is so important. Thank you for your dedication.
I just discovered your channel. You had me at "The Choke-slam of the Absolute"
It's a zinger
can you imagine walking on a hike and seeing a wild Aristotle? that must have been so nuts all those centuries ago. Now we only have domesticated "designer" philosophers like Jordan Peterson. I hope we come up with some kind of conservation effort to bring back wild ecosystems where philosopher species like the early Platonists can come back on their own.
I went on a fieldtrip to a roman/greek tomb in that region
And the atmosphere was crazy , underground with low light the frescos still strong looking at the tomb felt like these mf's could rise up any second, totally a different world.
Thank you for this 🙏🏻 Looking forward to more on Orphism. Something about it pulls me in. I’ve been reciting the Orphic hymns. Good stuff. ✨
I love that feeling when you realize you just found your new favourite channel.
Being born some miles away from Vergina, I am really glad you made this video! Thank you doctor Sledge for this magnificant analysis!
I rarely comment. Thank you very much for this mentally stimulating and fascinating content.
Thanks for going into such explanations, giving understanding to such texts I would have trouble associating properly. So much goes into your 26 minute production, its amazing. I'm still working on my Latin, for goodness sake :) So many texts and so little time!
I’m so glad I found this channel.
I'm wondering if you've heard of asemic writing, a form of visual poetry that often resembles ancient, unknown languages? Such a fabulous channel! Thank you for your work.
What our species will come up with just to pass the time on this meaningless rock never ceases to amaze me. Great video!
another wonderful video, thank you very much
Fascinating! And the first I'd heard of the new discovery, somehow, so very much appreciated on that front too! Given how little is known about the Hellenistic mystery cults, this is an incredible find. Dr Sledge's description of the author's approach reminds me an awful lot of the later European alchemical writings which often tried to explain esoteric in context of contemporary science & vice versa...?
Thank you for your service ✊😎
Thank you for this episode
I loved this. I had not heard of the papyrus prior to this.
You should’ve entitled this video ‘The Choke Slam of the Absolute’ :)
Yeah, it's a pity, right? It's pretty amazing, at least I think so.
Wow that's really amazing that such an old text can survive in any form.
When you cross over,
Don’t drink from the first river,
No matter how dry your thirst.
There is another smaller river,
As you will discover,
If you only keep moving:
It flows among cypress trees,
Its water is fresh and clear
And it is banked with clover,
Bulrushes and lilies.
Drink from its water
On your hands and knees.
At the crossroads with three
Forking paths, you will discover
That the right path is the best.
Do not be tempted to take any
Other, and don’t dither
Deciding. Go right. Keep going.
I really enjoy these informative videos thank you!☺️🙏🏽✨
Fascinating and well done as usual
I find joy in your word
Thank you Dr. You are awesome!
Chokeslam of the Absolute is the greatest book title I've ever heard LOL
The Tomb of Horrors reference...love it.
Loved this. When are you looking at putting out the next Orphism vid?
Thanks again Dr!
Really interesting episode.
Dr. sledge you are always dazzling,but today I needed dark glasses. Thank you.
Keep up the good work
Thank you for the extensive coverage on various topics.
Esoteric glee aside, this will be worthy to follow and see how this unpacks, giving us potential epiphany into parallel studies previously traversed.
It's really exciting for me to be able to read these texts in Greek although I have no idea what they mean. Could you do something more in early Greek philosophy and the Mysteries especially? We are not taught in school about those.
The topic of this video and your dedication to discussing it and others matters in your work, are why I subbed to your channel
However, the random Evil Dead and DnD references in this video tell me that i certainly made the right choice
Thank you!
Bruh that Hegel one liner was great.
Even way back then, the struggle between science and religion.
Just how many wild Aristotles are you envisioning? One is probably enough for most timelines.
Dude, we are definitely kindred spirits here. Let’s strike up a conversation with the ghost who tells us to get out. 😂 I love your style in delivering speculations about these mysteries. Well done. If it gets disproved later who cares. You gave us a good introductory course into the subject.
Thanks doc!
Thank you so much
Thanks!
My favorite book title comes from India. It was written in the 9th century by a Carvaka skeptic named Jayaraśi. Called Tattvopaplavasiṃha, it translates to "The Lion That Devours All Categories."
Love those Carvaka guys
"The chokeslam of the Absolute" 🤣 Great stuff... There's something so modern about this rationalization of past "weirdness" in an attempt to "keep up" with "state of the art" discourses. It's sort of moving really. Cheers!
This is some interesting info I didn't know about the Hades (2018) extended universe. I didn't realize they had actually written out the thing that Zagreus convinced Orpheus to write.
@19:33 brb have to read Kant's Suplex of Pure Reason.
“No harm ever came from reading a book.”
-Evelyn Carnahan, Egypt, c.1926.
Thank you Dr. Sledge for this channel! It’s become a daily listen!
...and we have Abram of Ur/Or Orpheus.
Evidently she never heard of Empress Theresa/j
That freaking urn is beautiful. Wow! And the papyrus text is mind blowing. I'll consult the akashic record and get back to you on that title. So... no worries. I've got a feeling it means something along the lines of : I'm here to sing some hymns, dish some answers in these here riddles and chew some bubble gum, and I'm fresh outta bubble gum.
Wow, what a diamond channel.
The thing about ancient philosophers naming their writings after wrestling moves is fantastic, reminds me very much of our modern, public intellectuals and how people talk about them "destroying", "eviscerating", "demolishing." etc. each other through their arguments. Hilarious.
Excellent... Could you do more on early greek philosophy and esotericism.... It feels like its all there.... Maybe the unwritten doctrine of plato's academy, your take on soco, the dionysian/Apollonian switch Nietzsche mentions, or karl jaspers axial age, or all the heidegger stuff on being and clearings and greek temples, or maybe a general cultural video on the relationship between poerty, theology, and logical thought in ancient greece, or how they viewed and understood it.... etc.
As a philosopher i think you could produce a whole gang of content on that intersection alone. e.g. why walter benjamin was all about the jewish mysticism (loved the video on spinoza), or 60s self help as an outgrowth of theosophy, neoplatonism and kabbalah, etc.
Either way really just commenting to keep lord algorithm happy.... Youre the best!!!!
This pls
Asceticism associated with Dionysus is so interesting
Gods were often empowered by their opposite. Like how Apollo was agod of both disease and healing
Amazing these text survived
Dr, would you be so kind to make a video on who and what the demon Valac is?
Spinoza’s Slamdunk Argument for Substance Monism :3
Wow. This text has to rank up there with the Dresden Codex as the most miraculously survived text of tremendous value.
You're just so darn good
Love a good Acererak name drop 👍
Seemed appropriate
If there are random color tiles on the floor just nope your way back home
With a 10' pole :)
@@TheEsotericaChannel 😂
Incredible work on the Orphism, I have always fascinated by it thanks to Dionysos and His Divinity along with His eery similarities to Jesus Christ. Although, I don't think that it necessarily just straight up pompfts down Christ, after all, Ficino worked it out!
Speaking of which, can you perhaps do a video on Jakob Boehme? Thanks man
Yessss! Jacob Boehme pls ;D
Early Christianity does indeed borrow a lot of the concepts about the soul and afterlife from Orphism.
Jesus was modeled upon Dionysus & other vegetative, or dying & reviving, gods, like Hyacinth, Narcissus and so on - I wrote a paper on this topic, which my beloved professor, who was both a Classics/Near Eastern scholar [who knew about 10 ancient/modern languages] AND was a Presbyterian minister, accepted my premise, albeit a bit reluctantly.
@@sherylholland2378 *Great comment! In the end, it's the archetype that 'matters'.... Double entendre intended!* 👍
Modeled how? You propose Jesus was an invention?
Please do more orphism
מאוד מגניב לראות את הפרויקט הנ"ל.
the part about the sun is old, i seen a video recently, of some of the last hunter/gatherers in africa, and the chief was asked about what happens when they die, he said something about burying them in a cave, and they went to the sun, so the idea of people going to the sun, is pretty old, and probably the idea of solar deity spread with the people over time
Jacob was also a wrestler. Could be that this was a metaphysical struggle toward revelation, as if the angel doesn't want to relent, unless you force it/seek it.
The Mysteries were introduced in Delpfi, many, many centuries before the 6-7th century. The name of the Thracian god Orpheus translates as the Guardian of the temple/ Delpfi and Perperikon, where Alexander understood that he would conquer the world/. In 334 BC, the Greeks massacred all the priests in the temple and replace them with their own.
Choke slam of the absolute is so good hahaha
Pls do a video on Orphic cults
I'm just here to say I got a pair of small circular glasses, because you can't study the occult without them.
Interesting edits you perform on yourself.
Your beard is legendary!
Incorporating Saturn theory (David Talbot) as well as over all thunderbolts project reaching as far as theater Holden suppositions / hypotheses May set well here.
Chokeslam of the Absolute. Another dope metal song name
Macho man metal
@@TheEsotericaChannel Hey, since I have your attention for the moment, is there a way I can contact you about working together on something?
Sure via my website!
This is troubling. Please tell me more.
“Chokeslam of the Absolute” Hegel will forever be a worm for not naming his book this
Considering the latest phililogical developments with AI and disentangling charred scrolls...I'm curious if they'll use it to further understand the text