A Visit with Mike Israetel | Starting Strength Radio #72
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- čas přidán 2. 09. 2020
- Mark Rippetoe discusses exercise science, academia, nutrition, Renaissance Periodization, and other topics with Dr. Mike Israetel.
renaissanceperiodization.com/
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The crossover nobody expected
First thing I thought when I see it just now lol
I thought I was going dyslexic when I saw this on my recommendations feed. Nope it's actually Dr. Mike.
Nah, I'll be much more shocked if it was Jeff Cavaliere AthleanX dot com
Rip’s really been getting good guests lately.
Is this the beginning of a strength-training Avengers?
Perfect example of 2 folks who have some different points of view on some things showing how they agree on the VAST MAJORITY of points...not to mention displaying mutual respect.
But they didn't talk about the things they disagreed about.
And all they agreed about was that most coaches suck.
Yep... They just bashed strength coaches the whole time, in total agreement. They were definitely polite and respectful though. I think rip is a better listener.
Yeah. It was a fun conversation and I think debating thier differences would have been awkward to listen to for me. They also train different demographics primarily. And Rip will be the first to say they primarily deal with technique and novices in the power lifts.
Wow almost like they’re adults or something
For some reason, this became outright amazing when Mike realised he was allowed to swear.
"You are trying to become a dangerous, wild animal. You are trying to become an inconvenience to people. People don't want you to be strong." Loved this quote.
Metal AF
49:05
Corny af
I experienced this playing football (soccer) with my family a few weeks ago.
We’ve all aged some since the last time we played but I’m the only one who has been strength training.
Not only was I able to dominate everyone in the sprints (despite my younger brother being a runner and I don’t run at all) but I was a nightmare to get off the ball.
My other brother tried to bodycheck me (which is a foul but never mind) and literally went flying.
I’m not saying this to brag I’m saying the difference between being a 60kg guy who doesn’t lift verses a 95kg guy who can squat 3 plates for reps is noticeable. And I recognise 3 plates isn’t even good. I think if I was squatting 5 he might have died.
@@dannyboi472 "I don’t run at all" kek fatty
As a fellow teacher I attended one of our high school's strength training sessions during a backsquat day. Technique, load, and volume were all dialed in to where the athletes were clearly pushing their limits. They had an undefeated football season and in late winter also took first place in our state's "Strongest Team" power lifting competition. I'm convinced the two accomplishments are related. Coach is an accomplished lineman who's been lifting for a long long time. Great teacher and skilled at being fully human.
Would love that hypertrophy conversation between the two of you. Please make that happen.
As a CZcams viewer, I have now watched this video.
thank you youtube viewer.
I think this should be a series on the podcast. We can call it intense stares and aggressive blinking.
Rip is so addicted to the sound of his own voice and interrupting people, he almost looks panicked when someone else is speaking. By the way, love Rip.
😂😂😂😂
Great comment!
You're more attracted to that deep warm rumble... If you really loved him, you let him faulk you in the ass. Rip was definitely a better listener, and less about pushing his own agenda.
Rip grew up in Texas working in his Dad’s diner. That’s how it’s done.
Two of my favorite sources for info, together at last. $20 says Dr. Mike is wearing crocs right now.
Mike is always wearing Crocs. *Always.*
"if everything you know is on paper, you don't know anything" - Rip
In context of training, I hope.. otherwise he'd be an idiot
You technically just “believe” it because someone else told you. It may even be true. But it’s not really knowledge until it’s confirmed by reality.
Says the guy who always tells you to "just read the book"...
I agree and disagree. We aren’t hunter gatherers because we are more efficient at sharing and transferring knowledge
Rip looks like he couldn’t touch his toes while standing or climb over a fence so I’m going to take his wisdom with a grain of salt.
Y'all need to have a two hour conversation, but structured, versus just talking smack about the sad state of affairs in sports. Enjoyed the episode, but still, offering feedback for the second round.
It's not a debate format
I get the t but debates generally suck and nobody changes thier mind anyway. I think in this cultural climate we need more points of connection rather than more reason to pick a tribe and dislike everyone not in it. I don’t agree with the SS way of training more advanced lifters but I don’t have any dislike of Rip. He clearly knows a ton of good information. Better to connect on that instead of just restating your position in the prescience of someone who doesn’t agree. That’s not helpful. Unless the two think there is something to learn from that I don’t see a point with debates.
this was good. get mike on the show more often
Thank you both for the podcast! Can't wait for part 2 and beyond. I started lifting in high school with Rip and 70s Big as my guides, and I've been following Mike for a few years now with RP dieting and his training philosophies. Glad to see these worlds collide
Another great episode. Thanks for never selling out, Rip.
Really enjoyed this, I've learnt so much from both of you guys. From starting to lift again, after 20 years of being in "Office Space" territory, you've both been an inspiration and education. Thanks. 💪
So many great parallels to what I’ve seen myself. Dr. Israetel was spot on with his examples and views of the industry. This was a great discussion to have been had.
If possible, I’d love to see an interview with Dr. Mike Israetel again with a Q&A format where both give insights with their own experience.
One of my favorite parts around 49 minutes, the volleyball 'slap' going to a BOOM and "I don't want to get hit by that!"
that right there is the voice of successful coaching. 🏋️
Loved watching these two guys talk, real gift,
*thanks* SS
It makes you wish your boyfriend could go boom on your ass.
2020 is truly a twilight zone of a year...
Very cool to see Dr Israetel on here. I wasn't surprised to hear them agree this much but I am surprised Rip didn't interrupt him more. Pleasantly surprised.
Rip doesn’t interrupt people he respects
Absolutely fantastic discussion!
Most excited video ever for me..Rip with Mike..dream came true
I'm so stoked that this is happening!
Looking forward to the next installment.
Two of my favorites in the fitness world!
I really enjoyed that. Shortest hour long talk show I've heard in a while. Sad that it wasnt longer
Hi Rip, I'm a big fan and I appreciate your work. I like when you have guests on your show. Please ask more questions and give your guests a little bit more space to speak and express their views :) After watching this episode I have to say it is getting better in comparison to previous episodes. Keep up the good work!
I really did love this thank you both.
Enjoyed the episode, a second round would be great!!
Love the discussion about academia. Generally, in academia you learn the concepts to be able to understand why things work the way they do. However, you don't really learn how things work. This is what you learn in the real world. Someone with a lot of experience just learns how things work first and foremost. I think once you are there, academic insights can really help guide you in the real world, but the other way around is typically bound to fail. Had the same in my engineering career...
this is a great commentary on university becoming more and more obsolete...
All hail Dr.Mike! Full rom gang checking in
cant believe i overlooked this one, great episode
This brings Dr. Mike one step closer to being on JRE
Get Eric Bugenhagen on the podcast. That’d be a great episode
Peter Eric was a professional sports coach and strength trainer for D1 athletes. He knows what he’s doing and has a wealth of knowledge of the subject of training.
@Peter Ricki Bugez' view on odd lifts is pretty interesting.
There is going more thought into the things he does than you would realise.
@Peter _im not talking about the use of unconventional exercises_ Yeah, but I was.
You were saying Bugez wouldn't be an interesting guest on the podcast and doesn't know anything about training. I disagree. There are interesting things he could say, and in your last post you seem to be backtracking(about the odd lifts), and agreeing with that(?).
You are all over the place. To my knowledge Bugenhagen dissuades his followers from getting on gear.
At Ohio State Women’s rowing, we learned to back squat, military press, and bicep curl. Those were the only lifts we were allowed to do. I’m sure it’s different now, but looking back I wonder how much better we would have been if we had powerlifted more. And had a nutrition coach.
How the hell did they not get you to do strength and power focused bent over rows?
@@blickluke good question and one of my current favorite exercises. It was a long time ago and I’m sure the program has evolved. Our coaching team did their best, I’m sure, and we achieved our goals. I recall there was concern about not adding too much muscle (boat weight) and avoiding injury. We were much more focused on increasing cardiovascular endurance and getting lighter & faster.
@@blickluke it's not dumb they already literally row against resistance all the time..
Good to see Dr. Mike behaved well.
yes!, more please
I was hoping they would actually talk programming 😩
Well, they cut out the bit during which Rip said do your fives and Mike said do your tens and then they haggled and dragged their heels and started shouting and they arrived at sets of 8 after one hour of this, but then Rip still got red in the face and demanded sixes, and Mike said all right let's do sevens, at which time Rip threw something across the screen. It looked like an orangutan. Mike didn't even flinch, but said twelves are also fine. This is when both decided to cut out this segment from the show.
White Wolf this is what I was expecting
@@Fortress333 I took the liberty of illustrating your excellent retelling of these factual events that definitely happened exactly like that in the form of a humorous image:
i.imgur.com/xAq9BRq.png
@@RevanZim this is great
@@jordanholcombe9153 My thoughts exactly
I've tried it and this video is so true I'm telling you guys I tried it and my deadlift is considered weak do a lot of heavy lifters I'm maxed out at 405 and CNS fatigue that you get from that the fatigue you get from litsey cycling or running or lifting lightweights 4 sets of 25 or whatever you're doing.
The amount of time it takes to recover has to take into effect I'm just thankful that I can get back to running doing whatever else that I'm used to doing.
my kinesiology undergrad made us learn lifts! i didnt graduate able to coach well though and it took a lot of learning on my own time before i felt comfortable training average people
Starr also wrote about strength coaches not trying to get athletes stronger anymore due to the fear injury, which isn't very statically very high anyway. Dr. Mike Israetel is one the very few individuals who graduated from university in regards to training who is worth listing too.
Great conversation. Felt like they were just starting to get into the juicy stuff before it ended. Would love to see a disagreement between these two.
This is gold.
Just found this, but I need to get some popcorn before I watch.
Nice intro Rip ... Great show 👍
the most important podcast on the internet
I’d love to hear a hypertrophy discussion between the two of you guys.
12:20 reminds me of how I asked a (young) physical therapist to judge my deadlift technique when I just started lifting.
I had been deadlifting for about a month using youtube videos as my source for learning the technique. When I showed the physical therapist my deadlift (using 10 pound dumbbells as they had no barbell), she told me my shins were too far forward. In fact, she told me my shins should be vertical. So she essentially tought me how to do a SLDL. As clueless as I was, I took her advice seriously and the next time I went into the gym to apply what I had learned, I worked my way up to 200 pounds using the vertical shin technique and subsequently tore a muscle on the side of my 'core'. Took me well over a month to recover while enduring the most agonizing pain whenever I sneezed during the first couple of weeks of recovery.
When physical therapist didn't have barbell: huge red flag.
@@freneticfanatic Hehe true that. Well I was naive enough to think that she'd know what she's talking about just because she's a professional physical therapist.
Though I should admit that I was kind of dehydrated and a little overtrained when I tore that muscle, so she can't take all the blame. Still, the point remains thesame
That's me... great coach always had it tough.
This is either gonna be amazing or a cringe fest.. cant wait to find out which
its an amazing cringe fest.
Both
My thoughts exactly. Ive followed both of them and learned a lot from each but i would have never thought they would cross paths.
Yeah guys it was like an hour long packed full of ... nothing forreal
I was thinking the same thing haha
When can we look forward to the Aassgard Tiktok channel?
This is the greatest crossover that the world doesn’t know about
Can’t wait for round two
My two heros
24:08 I also think that's true. That's why I don't like to judge people on their looks/performance but rather their knowledge and its practical application.
Please do a part 2 of this about "HYPERTROPHY" training like you hinted at the end of this video!
Halfway through and wishing there’s a part 2
This guy looks like he’d tell a puppy to get a job
Two great minds discuss training for athletic pursuits. Awesome. If you two didn't have more convo's that I can find I hope you will.
What's the book that rip mentioned near the beginning on physiology?
This is an awesome video with tons of great insights into the faults of athletic training programs and them not utilizing the full potential. I think the reality is that not many people (unfortunately) have actually maximized their strength potential on the big lifts because it is really hard and requires dedication and consistency over large periods of time. You can instead just do drills and play your sport because they are more fun. Of course the athletes don't get bigger and stronger. Only hardcore psychos want to get bigger and stronger. Also when it comes to a football team, a lot of athletes enjoy the playing of the game, not the hardcore disciplined eating, sleeping, and training that comes with strength training. So they are likely to slip on their consistent eating. So when the team trainer asks them to increase their squat another 5lbs today and they haven't eaten properly and are physically weaker as a result, they could increase the risk of injury. So they have to dumb things down to accommodate the lack of seriousness and consistency in the athletes. I come from a elite level downhill mountain bike racing background. The off season strength training for these athletes is a joke. The eating is a joke. So the go relatively nowhere in terms of strength. If they got insanely strong and put on another 20-30lbs of muscle mass, they would destroy their competition, crash less, get injured less, and be more mentally strong. I wish I knew what I know now about strength training so that I could have applied it when I was younger and racing at a high level. It would have improved every aspect of my performance from mental to physical.
Would like to see Mike back.
Wow this really ended way too fast,,, can't wait for the next discussion
I was expecting a contentious debate, but they obviously respect each others’ individual specialties.
Rip, you should invite Joel Seedman on your podcast to talk about his Eccentric Isometrics and 90° squats
And that trapbar landmine shit fest
Epic crossovers
That was great
Counter point. If your star player decides they aren't gonna take the strength program seriously there isn't a whole lot you can do about it.
Born is thy King of Israetel
What the hell happened at 39:03? A bit of a disagreement from Dr. Israetel so it's cut out?
Pretty weird indeed
I don't understand how Rippetoe is still standing by his claim that a person's vertical jump can't be substantially improved. That's just empirically false.
Ronaq Singh he’s never said it can’t be improved in any degree. He said you’re not going to take a poor vertical jump and train it to be a top tier vertical jump. Which you can’t do.
@@LV426Survivor There are many real-world examples of vertical jumps increasing by around 10 inches over the course of several years. Rippetoe has explicitly claimed that such large increases are impossible.
@@ronaqsingh1639 as a parkour coach of several years i can say that in my experience, peoples' ability to jump typically reflects them unlocking potential versus increasing explosive power. jumping is natural but most people dont perform jumps in everyday life and therefore dont really know how XD
Great guest....one old legend, and a new one in the making.
Steve Drulias Mike is more than a legend already
Personally I love how it's even more contrasted - one decidedly NON-academic and one definitively egg-headed academic (definitely not a knock on Israetel - the man is ridiculously knowledgeable!)
good team up
Totally agree with what they said about people with degree. I used to lift in a university’s gym. Those “trainers” who are master/PhD students in physiology are absolutely useless. None of them even noticed my balance issues until I went to a sport physiotherapist.
I’m not against formal education. In fact I hold a PhD in computer science. But I learned so, so much more from hands-on experiences the first year in my real job. It can’t be just working in well-controlled benchmark datasets. It has to deal with all types of real scenarios. Engineering degrees in my opinion have to be offered with certain years of industry experience as a prerequisite.
How on earth could you possibly learn, say, theory of computation during work hours? Similarly, how can a chemical engineer learn heat transfer theory during work hours when checking aspects of a reactor or whatnot?
Your proposition is entirely impractical. Of course when you get employed in a programming job you will have to learn particulars of that job, but that's supposed to be easy because you know the overview of the field.
I'm largely against formal education, but you *don't* learn on the job, you at best get some practice with specific stuff, say you learn SQL instead of knowing about general database design from your BSc. But that's trivial.
albu obscure No one says you learn theory during work hours. I’m saying learning through experience is a missing piece in higher education. That means, you should gain hands on experience IN ADDITION TO your theory learning. I don’t think anything is easy per se until you master it. To me theory was easy. Math was easy. Because I was trained for that for many years. You get exactly what you expect 100%. But the most basic debugging was hard as f. Analog circuit experiments particularly drove me nuts in my undergrad study, because it never worked exactly according to the diagram. Easy or not it’s all relative to what skill set you’ve already got.
Phd in CS is useless.
@@cherriercheung You don't need to master details about professional aspects that change every few years, you can learn them on the go. In universities I'm familiar with there are always classes that delve into practicals, say engineering projects or specific programming languages, but these don't make the core of the discipline, though I do agree with you that they should be more prevalent.
Electronics and circuits in general can get easily fiddly because of electric discharges, tolerances, induction problems, sensitivity issues with larger systems etc, that's normal if you haven't practiced much, which is expected with CS people, electrical engineers usually get out of education with a better grasp of analog stuff. Another example in support of your claim for more practice in education would be magnetism, where most people don't have a good grasp of it after engineering school.
Jason THE MONSTER Blaha depends on what domain. I’m doing R&D on computer vision. Surely you could pick up stuff along the way but I imagine it’d be hard to understand the theory behind some of the methods in terms of why they work under what conditions, and how to tweak them to best suit your problem. Also you need to be able to immense yourself in the vast amount of literature, pick up signals from the noise, and estimate the implementation cost and success rate for your case. That’s all the training from PhD. Of course I didn’t walk down the alternative path so I will never know. There might be some geniuses out there. From what I see everyone working in a similar position holds at least a master degree, the tuition of which I couldn’t afford.
I think I understand Mark’s point regarding exercise science degrees, but it was Interesting how Dr Mike was confused/skeptical when Mark claimed exercise science degrees are not actually “science”.. lol might provide a little insight as to how he might be too set in his ways- around @14:05
Dr Mike is enhanced
I would love to hear opinions on programming
But what do you think about heavy sets of FAHHVE?
“Can I swear on here?
…I hope you do.” -Rip.
🤣
53:15 , it's Israetel.
OMG my worlds are colliding 🌍 💥🤯
Holy shit!!!
Mike is a Huge Hex Bar Deadlift proponent.
He believes in this bar big time.
But remember Mike trains real athletes and knows the significance of the Hex Bar Deadlift
not really but believe what you wish
No he's not he always harps on hex bars.
this is great but Rip interuppting is insane
I agree wholeheartedly (you could see it on Mike's face); however, I know how it is when you are excited to talk with someone that has the same passions as you. I'm guilty of that myself!
This isn't that bad for Rip 😁
He's the Texan Interrumpator
he really enjoys listening to himself talk. He wish he could split into two Rips and tap himself in the shoulders and say: man, you good as hell.
It's almost at the level of Neil Degrasse.. almost
Don’t tell Rip but Dr Mike uses dumbbells and machines as well as barbells 😀
I think the same thing about personal trainers who look out of shape or who you suspect have never put much time in working out but at the same time, has Bill Belichick ever played football?
There's a lot of trainers who are out shape because they give up their spare time when they should be doing their own training for their clients. Especially in commercial gyms they're not really paid enough to afford skipping client sessions to work out.
Ryan stop it. If it’s important you will find a way.
has Bill Belichick ever played football?
Yes, like D2 college cause he wasn't a good athlete, but he grew up playing and scouting.
I was just thinking man I wish they would talk. Today user that they already did three years ago!
Mike had a whole debate with Greg Doucette about avoiding progressive overload so frequently so as to let the body recover. Where do I see him now ? On the 5 lbs every workout podcast :D
Mike secretly loves Greg in that way he needs to come out of the closet🥰
If I went for a Phys Ed degree and they asked “Why do you wish to enroll here.” My response would be. “I want to take a whole bunch of regular people and make them harder to kill. So I figured knowing how the body works could help with that.” I wonder what their response would be.
while this is all generally correct, some of the s and c coaches at my school were into powerlifting and i remember a few of our football players being very strong
Because they coaches actually lifted themselves. If you have an Ex Phys professor or CSCS who has only ever played tennis, they don't know anything about training.
Fahves on a frahdaae
Rip is a fahraaud
@@Re3iRtH The more people believe rip is a fraud, the more impressive my lifts look, so I welcome it.
@@Re3iRtH Okay, skinny-boy.
Hip draaaahhhve
I have a question that i hope Rip or someone can answer then please. If you are saying you cannot make someone more explosive, adding in 200lbs to a squat and deadlift wont make then more explosive, and that you cannot turn their 22 inch vertical into anything more than a strong 22 inch vertical. Are you saying people cannot train and then get better numbers on that vertical? Because im sure ive seen people manage to add plenty of inches to their jump. Im not sure i understand Rips definition of explosive if this is the case.
Holy fuck I didnt not see this one coming!
These two discussing programming for anyone that's not a beginner will be hilarious.
Yeah, Mike would be explaining the significance of variation and volume while Rip would be saying "just add 5 more pounds" or some silly shit.
It really is just add more weight though the other stuff is bs.
Wow wow wow
hi rip iv been trying to get onto the forums but cant get the security question to work iv downloaded your app but im a little confused what weights i should be starting with ?
iv done the first week of it but the weights felt very light so i pushed myself to see what i can do my 1 rep maxes are
bench=75KG this was very hard for me
deadlift=135kg i think i can do more but i have no more weights
i haven't been able to do a squat yet because iv been cycling pretty hard and it hurts my thighs to even do one but i plan to cut the bike out this month
could you or someone give me some help to get onto the forum im completely new to weight training
You can go to the Starting Strength website and go to the forums. I'm no expert but I have read the blue book and the practical programming book. There is no set weight to start off with or no percentage of your max weight to start off with (ex. 60% of your 1 rep max).
Generally, you start with the weight you can do for 3 fahves without form breakdown.
I'd recommend backing up some (20-25#) from that unless you have a coach...who cares if your novice linear progression lasts a week or 2 longer?
@@migm7441 thanks for the reply i cant get onto the forums thats the problem im have it keeps saying the security question is wrong
@@christopherhammond3664 fahves ? you mean go down 20-25kg from my max ?
@@tt-wl5nx POUNDS. 20-25 POUNDS less the heaviest weight you can do 3 sets of FIVE WITH NO BREAKDOWN IN FORM. This is because I like the idea of starting conservatively
anybody has that brooks and fahey book? asking for a friend 👀
Oh boy oh boy
It’s like an officer fresh out of West Point becoming a Plt leader and never been in combat lol