Some of the clearest pointing towards Non Duality I have ever seen - By Ken Wilber
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“It wasn’t like i heard a bell or anything. I just suddenly had this calm feeling. Like the air inside my lungs was suddenly the air outside my body. It was peaceful.” - Jason (The Good Place)
Beautifully expressed! What is (all perceived phenomena) is all there is, all that is needed, there isn't even really a need to invoke "knowing" or awareness or consciousness. So simple and direct that the mind can't "understand" it using its conceptual tools. Wilber was my gateway drug for this stuff...he lures the mind in with concepts and then disarms it by pointing to direct reality 🔥
I’ve been practicing nonDuality for about 10 years now and I’ve never heard anyone put it this way….wow just wow you can literally feel and see how I AM everything! Thank you my friend!
@crittercatchers5269 - which exercises have you been practicing, and how many hours a day? Like, do you pretend/practice to become THE ONE SOURCE of everything for X hours, and then come back to play the part of the little self for the rest of the day? Just curious.
Same question...? Exactly how do you "practice"?@@manishgv
@@tommroy Not sure, which is why I asked the OP, @crittercatchers5269 this question :)
@@manishgvoops, I meant to reiterate the question to critter catchers...
There is no one
YES, so simple, so immediate! Will return to this quick pointing whenever aware of stress of duality. THANK YOU so much!
stress is usually just fear and all fear is rooted in the fear of death.
Under the trees it was very quiet; there were so many birds calling, singing, chattering, endlessly restless. The branches were huge, beautifully shaped, polished, smooth and it was quite startling to see them and they had a sweep and a grace that brought tears to the eyes and made you wonder at the things of the earth. The earth had nothing more beautiful than the tree and when it died it would still be beautiful; every branch naked, open to the sky, bleached by the sun and there would be birds resting upon its nakedness. There would be shelter for owls, there in that deep hollow, and the bright, screeching parrots would nest high up in the hole of that branch; woodpeckers would come, with their redcrested feathers sticking straight out of their heads, to drive in a few holes; of course there would be those striped squirrels, racing about the branches, ever complaining about something and always curious; right on the top-most branch, there would be a white and red eagle surveying the land with dignity and alone. There would be many ants, red and black, scurrying up the tree and others racing down and their bite would be quite painful. But now the tree was
alive, marvellous, and there was plenty of shade and the blazing sun never touched you; you could sit there by the hour and see and listen to everything that was alive and dead, outside and inside. You cannot see and listen to the outside without wandering on to the inside. Really the outside is the inside and the inside is the outside and it is difficult, almost impossible to separate them. You look at this magnificent tree and you wonder who is watching whom and presently there is no watcher at all. Everything is so intensely alive and there is only life and the watcher is as dead as that leaf. There is no dividing line between the tree, the birds and that man sitting in the shade and the earth that is so abundant. Virtue is there without thought and so there is order; order is not permanent; it is there only from moment to moment and that immensity comes with the setting sun so casually, so freely welcoming. The birds have become silent for it is getting dark and everything is slowly becoming quiet ready for the night. The brain, that marvellous, sensitive, alive thing, is utterly still, only watching, listening without a moment of reaction, without recording, without experiencing, only seeing and listening. With that immensity, there is love and destruction and that destruction is unapproachable strength. These are all words, like that dead tree, a symbol of that which was and it never is. It has gone, moved away from the word; the word is dead which would never capture that sweeping nothingness. Only out of that immense emptiness is there love, with its innocency. How can the brain be aware of that love, the brain that is so active, crowded, burdened with knowledge, with experience? Everything must be denied for that to be. Habit, however convenient, is destructive of sensitivity, habit gives the feeling of security and how can there be alertness, sensitivity, when habit is cultivated; not that insecurity brings alert awareness. How quickly everything becomes habit, sorrow as well as pleasure and then boredom sets in and that peculiar thing called leisure. After habit which has been working for forty years, then you have leisure or leisure at the end of the day. Habit had its turn and now it's the turn of leisure which again turns into habit. Without sensitivity there is no affection and that integrity which is not the driven reaction of contradictory existence. The machinery of habit is thought which is always seeking security, some comforting state from which it will never be disturbed. It is this search for the permanent that denies sensitivity. Being sensitive never hurts, only those things in which you have taken shelter cause pain. To be totally sensitive is to be wholly alive and that is love. But thought is very cunning; it will evade the pursuer, which is another thought; thought cannot pursue another thought. Only the flowering of thought can be seen, listened to, and what flowers in freedom comes to an end, dies without leaving a mark.
What is the source of this passage please?
@@emd9123 krishnamurti's notebook (Page no - 240)
First vid I have seen of yours. Seems to have come to me at an appropriate time in my journey. Love the way you explain things and express these ideas, it's awesome. Thank you!
what a beautiful video, many thanks for sharing ⭐
A very direct and clear talk that brought new depth to my understanding. Thank you David.
I just listened to this again. The pointing is beautiful and clear. It reminds me of Douglas Harding’s Headless Way.
Man thank you so much!! my body feels the sensation of the vast everything inside awareness. Exceptional 🧡🧡🧡
Douglas Harding (and his successor, Richard Lang) is worth checking out if you’re interested in non-dogmatic, direct pointing at the non-dual reality of experience. His methodology, called The Headless Way, has been instrumental in teaching me to access non-dual awareness in any moment.
It truly can feel like you’ve learned a new superpower when you look back at the “witness” and see clearly that there is nothing to find. No head upon your shoulders where others claim it to be. Just empty space for the world.
shit just got real
This is just the ego talking. You are just putting another head on top of your head....the "non dual" identity.
@@giovannidebiase6850 The ego wrote that comment, yes of course. It's writing back to you now, too. I'm not claiming to experience non-dual awareness at all times, that would indeed be rather impractical for functioning in a dualistic society. But you can learn to glimpse the non-dual reality quite plainly, as if switching between seeing your reflection in a window and seeing the world beyond it. Give The Headless Way a try before you blindly pass judgment.
Hey David, thanks for sharing this teaching. I can feel it's truth experientially.
I really needed to hear this message right now.
Thank you and blessings to you.
Superb. Thank you.
The mountain and your witness feel the same because they are. All is one and that one is infinite consciousness, the original thought. We are all thoughts, within thoughts having our own thoughts. Keep meditating and keep seeking. Seek and ye shall find brother. Go inwards and look for the light. For you are light. Formed by love. All is light, all is love, all is one and that one is you.
consciousness is not infinite
No, the mountains you see is not the real mountain. You are really looking at your own mind and consciousness. The mountain is not out there it is within you
I have a metaphor for it: It's like the universe and everything that exists are just the water of the ocean, and your body is like a river. Throughout your life, you start thinking that your wholeness is just the river and just a small part of the water within that river, differentiated from all other rivers. And that the water that flows within you is different from the water from other rivers. But you come and go to the same place as every other river. And when you die, it's like when the river dries. The water didn't disappear; it's just reunited with the ocean.
the strongest pointers (for lack of a better word) for me are ones that have to do with felt sense, feeling into the body, what is viscerally here in the body, subtle inner sensations, feeling into stuck energy in the body...basically pointers that direct one to intentionally relax into the body very deeply and feel/fall inwardly on purpose, almost like intentionally putting the body into a deep-sleep-like state while you remain awake. and not just doing that once but doing that regularly. like for at least a little bit of time every day seeing how much you can purposely let go energetically and fall inwardly into the felt sense of the body. again and again and again. they say this isn't about a practice or intentionality or anything, but deep relaxation of the nervous system is a part of this nonduality community whether you admit it or not. one wouldn't be attracted to nonduality circles/videos if there wasn't a deep relaxing of the nervous system while the body is hearing it or around those people. it's straight up all about deep nervous system relaxation - a physical, physiological, visceral, felt thing - but i feel like that fact is often avoided being talked about, because it implies duality (relaxation and non-relaxation need one another) and there's basically a quiet fear/pride around admitting that there is a body here and that there can indeed be a sense of intentionality even if there clearly is no separate self
Good point. There's is definitely feelings involved, and the speakers say that it's an energetic "shift" of sorts. That's how it felt listening the first times, the body felt so calm like it was going home to truth. And we have only words to convey and communicate, so that's how I would describe it.
The feeling into atuck emotions is something I've started doing more and more. The deep relaxation seems to happen with that. And even if there's "nowhere to get to" this relaxation feels like what this body is drawn to. And "I" haven't made that up or decided, it just seems to happen that way ❤
Thank you man! So well put, really helps someone who has glimpsed but is looking to stabilize it more.
Love this. Thanks 🙏
Beautiful 🤩
Very true for me,being stuck as the witness has become so lonely and opened another type of suffering to be honest,,just within the past few days I’ve been catching glimpse of the next step and coming across information such as your video,just wanted you to know that it’s been very helpful and you are absolutely right in your pointing. Thanks
just witness more subtle layers of your mind as mind, and they will start to weaken and then vanish
Wym? What’s the difference between the witness and this?
@@mikelisteral7863mind will never vanish as long as you are alive
@@yoeyyoey8937 consciousness is intrinsically self witnessing and super luminal
Who is aware of the witness...?
Thank you for this and intro to Ken Wilber. " the great round mirror has no likes or dislikes" "what you are seeking is seeking you"
It’s so easy to make Non-Duality into a process. It’s so easy to get stuck. Oneness isn’t a process.
Oneness is Everything and Nothing. Letting go of Me being a thing that needs improving and constant approval.?
Thank You 🙏 It’s So refreshing to hear and see The TRUTH. 😊 Pure Awareness!
the word 'process' can be used in different ways.
we dont need to improve we just need to become conscious of everything that already is
@@aohjii become more conscious of your mind, because its your mind that is creating apparent duality
everything, the mental body, physical body, emotional body, energy body
@@mikelisteral7863
Because we are a process of becoming there isn’t anything that we can definitively be said to be
Ken Wilber is a great resource. A Brief History of Everything is a great read.
his head is too big
I've never been able to read his stuff. Too many words to say something simple. Pointless and needlessly complex systems to sell books. "Integral theory," "overmind," "supermind," "flexflow," "strivedrive," "truthforce," I mean, come on.
@@gnargnargnar ya same with course in miracles. too many words
I liked a lot of that. Thanks for the effort. I sub'd. :)
Thank you for sharing this beautiful understanding. I find Rupert Spira's writings and talks incredibly direct and accessible on these matters should that resonate.
Thank you for sharing :)
Wow, that was so helpful!
Ken Wilber is a genius. He has very rare and valuable insights
good find. thank you!
Beautiful
The mic a fist away from mouth is best
Much love from Chicago
beautiful 💜🙏
Yes! That's so wonderful, thank you. You've just popped up on my CZcams feed and it's lovely to hear a fresh voice speaking of 'this'. Yes, i know the vastness with no edges, and the small self disappearing into it. And yet; do you feel the Self as a location?
Wilbur's "A Brief History of Everything" is awesome. Had to immediately read it a second time and it still rocked.
@@AnishRamaswamy I didn't, though, did I?
@@AnishRamaswamy To suggest that the saints' writings were complicated and not easy to access isn't necessarily derision. I would think that they were likely writing that way on purpose, with the intent of limiting access. Perhaps we are now in an age where more access is needed, so a more direct approach is required.
“One Taste” book is a gem.
Angelo Dillulo has a new video called dissolving duality simple pointing and very effective to the degree you are speaking of. Great video and thanks for sharing.
Very very clear. Many fail to see past the awareness trap, great explanations
❤️
@@AnishRamaswamy if you feel like you are being mocked, look right there in that feeling, it may be a breakthrough point. Just a suggestion.
@@AnishRamaswamy You might want to stay away from direct transmissions like this if you aren’t interested in investigating the nature of your own identity. It can start a process you can’t stop. It can be extremely uncomfortable and destabilizing for some. I’m not joking or being facetious.
this has helped me immensely! Thank you David; sub'd & excited to journey more with you.
This send me deeper than anything else since my first shattering, thanks a lot
Send who deeper into what, if I may ask?
@@yoeyyoey8937 Deeper into Samadhi. Deep enough that I hit the fear barrier again for the first time in over a year. It feels like dying or being about to blow a fuse in the brain
@@blaidd5917 how are you in samadhi if you’re feeling fear though? Or wym by that? Either way that’s cool that this had that effect
@@yoeyyoey8937 Samadhi can be painful and overwhelming at times. It's like learning to swim. The more compfortable you get doing it, the farther away from shore you feel safe. But at some point the Ego realizes that it is about to die and floods you with blind panic to get you to not kill it. I haven't been able to surrender it completely again, since the first time I had the chance and needed to know more then I needed to live. Now that I know it is hard to have a reason to do it again. Nirvikalpa is not fun
@@blaidd5917 What are you referring to as samadhi and how is your ego still involved in this process that is making it difficult? Do you mean like the way your ego interacts with th experience before or after it happens?
Because nirvikalpa by definition means that you are not experiencing ego. And ultimately, ego doesn’t die, it’s just not something that is part of you anymore if you are in samadhi.
GRACIAS!!!!!!!!!
Wilber is convoluted
The teaching of Ramana Maharshi is the most direct path.
"Be rid of current thoughts, that is all."
Abide in/as thought free Awareness. That's it, that's all.
You are right. All these mofos are trying to reinvent the wheel and it reeks of greed
Thank you for conveying non duality in this way, it was said very digestible and I’m happy to now start practicing separation from my mind and “myself”
this is great, thank you. Where is this piece of writing from?
any practical tips/advice we can use to become more present?
Thanks for the great reminder
Thank you 🙏.
Loved it!
Very helpful thoughts 😊 your ending reminds me of Ram Dass's quote "There is nowhere to stand.'
"There's no path. If you believe that you are in a path, you are already mistaken. You are not going nowhere, because you are everywhere."
Jim Newman
Meh. What if I say you are the path will you then quote me?
Thank you ❤
That helped, thank you. The "two" pointed out as not separate, the same "feeling", right ... There.
Great content
Very nice.
Very clear description ❤
Much love bro ❤️
Subscribed! Keep grinding mate.
I also love David r hawing on duality and also causality.
This is excelllent. From what text of Wilber were you reading please?
Very interesting, ive been brushing off the idea of non duality but i love having new perspectives of understanding.
Good man. Thank you
Thanx Mate! 😊
Thanks for explaining , it makes more sence today , but i also felt like that when i was on shrooms. Thank you
I'm not familiar with Ken Wilber, but it seems like there are a few people these days who for me have really hit upon a clear and contemporary way of talking about what all the saints, mystics, arahants, friends of God and so on were pointing to and trying to talk about which is the "non-duality". Rupert Spira comes to mind along with Francis Lucille. I think non-duality is correct. We're the "just awareness"... thoughts and feelings and so on we usually think of as "me" are just... objects of awareness. Of course, I only have an intellectual understanding of such things myself! lol! I like your talk starting at 10:35 it seems you're getting right at the difference between an imaginative experience, or mere altered state of consciousness, and what is the actual field of consciousness. Also... how infinite perspectives becomes a "blob" or an infinite darkness... it's so wild!
Something that really clicked for me was getting to know Carl Sagan's phrase "we are made of star stuff". When I really thought about it, just made me realize that we are all one and the same thing. Literally, physically, spiritually and metaphysically we are the Universe knowing itself. We are the star stuff thinking and looking at "other" star stuff and experiencing everything and even analyzing it. In that manner, duality has a purpose, looking at something as separate, experiencing it as separate, to come back again at it embracing it as one.
Im not saying that he inferred nothing, but that I found that truth. If we are all made of the same building blocks as anything in the universe, why would be logical to think that something is different from another? The only thing that separates is the Illusion of the mind, that labels and organizes things to feel in control of something. The reality of everything is nameless, infinite and unbound, nothing is separate or disconnected. But even if he did not inferred that in his statement, I can imagine that man knowing that truth by heart.@@Maplewalnuht
beautiful .. always ending up in silence
What is the title of the book, if I may ask? Maybe You've mentioned that but I didn't catch it...
The art of using words to say nothing
Thanks for this. I’m a big fan of “pragmatic dharma”. Being very logical and analytical, I like my instructions to be clear and precise. My favorite book so far is Culadasa’s The Mind Illuminated. His model of how the mind changes during the awakening process alone is worth the price of the book (although it’s available as a free pdf). If I ever feel I need even more details, my second favorite resource is Daniel Ingram’s Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha (also available as a free pdf).
How do I find the pdf about how the kind changes with awakening
@@Daniel_TransformationCoach He talks about how the mind changes in interlude seven about the mind and consciousness, but to fully understand that chapter I would start with the fourth interlude about the Moments of Consciousness model, followed by the one about the Mind-System model: mybodhisattva.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/the-mind-illuminated-by-culadasa-john-yates-ph.d.-matthew-immergut-jeremy-graves-2017.pdf
What dharma is not pragmatic?
@@yoeyyoey8937 well, there’s the part about magical powers (Ākaṅkheyya Sutta) for one. The “watering down the dharma” section of Kenneth Folk’s “Contemplative Fitness” book in progress goes into more detail about what “pragmatic dharma” means.
@@hansenmarc oh I see, “pragmatic dharma” is like a proprietary phrase that the relevant author created to talk about his ideas? I’ll look into it to see what he means by it
This is my first time coming across this channel, but if you guys haven't looked into David Hawkins I really recommend his teachings. I went through the whole spectrum of spiritual teachings after I had my big "awakening", and I can confidently say David Hawkins will be my last teacher, at least in this lifetime.
Which book of his caused the awakening?
@@oscarivanmartinez3473 Nothing caused it, after a series of mystical experiences I knew that we are all one consciousness and there is only Love. It wasn't until a couple years later I discovered Hawkins and finally found someone who taught what I had experienced. All his books are great but I especially like I: Reality and Subjectivity, Discovery of The Presence of God, and Transcending the Levels of Consciousness
if you look at everything in front of you as one image,what is the distance between the image and what sees the image ?
No seer of the image, that’s an after thought. In seeing only the seen
What is the distance of your mind?
@@yoeyyoey8937 are thoughts in anything?
@@robertjsmith thoughts are wherever you can experience them
Can you please put the quote in the description?
Thank you for the pointer about the mistake of making the locus of awareness being not really being within your own container. Nice pointer.
I find it hard to be calm as the unity when I am broke, poor, nealry starving in this dualistic world.......being non-dual is great to think about and all but while being here in the dual world you gotta go full into it or you'll starve
Very good
Beautiful and clear thanks🙂
Ken Wilber IS MEGA SMART
We were never created. All physical form is dreamed or imagined, they are simply appearances in awareness. We are that awareness. It's not that we are living in a simulation, we are not in it, just aware of it appearing within us. We are the awareness itself not the dreamed form.
We, they, it are unseparated…
"The Simple Feeling of Being" by Ken Wilber
I’ve always asked myself, what would I look like in the eyes of my wife for example. Or when I leave the house, everybody else staying… are they still existing? Or is it as if reality is a continuous creation and appearing/disappearing of things as you experience them?
Wonderful reading of Wilber - which book of his?
Not sure actually, got it from the website awakening to reality
@@Davidmcdonald1 One Taste, it is a journal he wrote
OneTasteManyFlavors 🙏
What was that middle part again?
Thnxs brodhisattva 🙏
I like that 😂
All that needs to be remembered is that there is no good cop or bad cop, just cops. 😶
Hello, I am new to this. But how does non duality (if I understand it correctly) relate to subjective experience? I seem to really enjoy my subjective experience and I would feel really dissociated if "everything is just an illusion" and my boundaries, which makes me, me, are nothing but a waste of energy. Isn't it beautiful to embrace subjectivity and individuation?
An investigation into the apparent solidity, objectivity, and externality of the “real world” can reveal that the apparent separation experienced by an “individual” was ultimately a fiction created by a centreless, empty oneness that permeates and is the source of everything. One loses nothing in this investigation, other than their misery. You are already that being anyway, it’s just the false centre (that never actually was) falls away. You see there was always only ever subjectless subjectivity. This “feels” peaceful but is actually the absence of that which created a lot of apparent suffering.
That which can be inflated can be deflated, so even if your dream life is good, it can become “bad” very quickly. That’s why most people on the path get there through deep suffering. But everyone is unknowingly already on the path. Everything you do is a spiritual practice, whether you realize it or not.
Ultimately the “I” which you think would feel dissociated and afraid is that which you’re liberated “from.” So the question can’t really be satisfyingly answered - it’s freedom from this apparent Center / certainty / solidity.
Try sticking your head in a bucket of water for more than 5 minutes son....you will soon forget your non duality and be very much aware of your physical being.
This spiritual nonsense is a misinterpretation of actual spiritualilty...which is that we exist,,but as a continuous process..,there is nothing permanent...but that DOESN’T MEAN you aren't a real thing that suffers and dies. The point is to ACCEPT this reality that you will face loss,,pain and death....THAT is the spiritual way..its as down to earth as dogshit.
I agree. I have been "meditating" on this for so long and my conclusion is that life, the universe, nature, God, evolution, whatever, created us (or we happened to be evolved this way by chance) as to have a subjective experience in our individual lifetimes and that is that. It's a beautiful creative process and I feel this non-duality thing is a cop-out to face this reality. And for what? I think sure, being overly attached to the ego is a bad thing, but to totally forget about your individuality is a waste of so much potential.@@giovannidebiase6850
iam . . . IAM 🙏
This video exploded me
I really appreciate the authenticity of your exploration. My guess is that Ken Wilber is not resting in true non duality because it would unravel and make nonsense of his whole integral theory. I, until very recently, subscribed to the more popular understanding of non duality which is that consciousness or awareness is all. But if you think about it for a moment that perspective is still dualistic. You still need a subject and object, even if they are the same apparent thing. In true non duality there is nothing that ultimately can be said about is because it is necessarily beyond all conception. In the popular understanding of non duality they say how there is no other, that there is just the Self. But a Self is still a self. And really, if the other, the object disappears there can be no subject, no self either. In true non duality there is nothing, no one, no ground, no creator, no source, which means that there can be no meaning or purpose to so-called existence. And true non duality cannot be a temporary state that one can experience. Whatever experience comes and goes is not it. Even to say that it is where no one exists is off the mark. Nothing can be said of it, period. And whatever is said of it must be qualified with it's opposite, and still be said to be off the mark. It's nothing and everything. But to put the non dual into concepts and thinking you then have some understanding of it is delusion. It's like thinking you can get closer to the infinite by traveling a finite distance, no matter how large. It can't be done. There are the apparent non dual speakers who are really teaching a dualistic perspective, teachers such as Eckhart Tolle, Rupert Spira, and Adyashanti. The speakers of true non duality (who all insist that no one can be taught some method or technique to get there since it is already all that is, wholeness itself) give nothing, have nothing to give to the separate "me" because that "me" is pure illusion, ever non-existent. Only a self will give a practice to a self. Non dual speakers such as Tony Parsons have a very different message than a "non dual" teacher such as Eckhart Tolle. There is no meeting place between the two. True non duality cannot be gotten to by some practice. There is nothing that the self can do since the self itself is an illusion and wholeness is always already the case. There is only wholeness (non duality). Any sense of separation is an illusion. We can't get there because there is no self to get somewhere, only ever perfect wholeness is the case. The ultimate mindfuck and dissapointment for a self, a self that can never "have" the non dual. There is no one and nothing forever behind the phaneron. Attaining enlightenment is a dream and can only appear real in the realm of a someone. One can have an experience of consciousness but that is no different than any other mind-created phenomena like experiencing Krishna or Mother Mary. They are experiences that only have meaning to a self, or a Self and have no relationship to the non dual.
I agree with everything you said, however if you take that to mean there’s nothing to do an no practice or anything else to be done, then your mistaken. You can have the view you have that essentially nothing can be spoke of all everything is enlightenment, everything already is THIS! Which is true, but you can turn that into a belief and hide inside of it while delusion still runs rampant in your mind (even though that delusion is also THIS) it’s paradoxical but it’s nothing new, the Buddha already knew this, Adyashanti already knows this, but that’s not an excuse to slap that onto your experience and leave it at that, because that’s a belief. Your beliefs about subject, object, a centre to attention, space, time, solidity, might all still be fully intact and you could say “yeah well it’s all enlightenment so there’s nothing to do” - Tony parsons himself says people take his message and do this. Also, Neo advaita is nothing new, if you attend zen monasteries Neo advaita thinking is actually a common pitfal practitioners fall into, and is corrected by a good teacher. Angelo Dilullo has some good videos on this I’d recommend you check him out
@@Davidmcdonald1 The only delusion is to be hoodwinked into feeling that one is a "me," and beyond that that "me" is actually real and needs (and can) be transcended. It already doesn't ever exist. With that there is absolute freedom. Life is just happening. And sometimes there is the imagining that there is someone in there having and doing and performing the life. And that is still perfectly nothing appearing as a someone. Nothing to do, nothing to be. Nothing ever happening.
Where is the Wilbur quote from? Which book?
Best Ken Wilber book? Anyone?
What holds the holder?
Excellent pointing 😃🎉
What does “pointing” mean?
@@yoeyyoey8937 that to which he or any spiritual teacher points can not really be explained in language as it transcends the mind and all that the mind can think of. So at best, all spiritual teachings point to it 😄
@@BreatheandBewithSavita sure but then the pointing is unnecessary, isn’t it? Can we not just call it poetry?
@@yoeyyoey8937 absolutely, that’s the beauty 😊we can call it anything we want, whatever works for you 🙂
Yeah. I posted this when I heard you raise the question "where is this witness?". I had - by now in my life - 3x definite non-dual experiences and related to this particular question, I am reminded of my second experience: I was driving on the highway. I was the driver of my car. And all of a sudden, without any reason, without any effort on my part, all that I saw became exactly the same, this "one inexplainable/inexpressible essence". I could only coin it "Reality". But early on in the experience, it was made so clear that "intelligence" (related to your witness) is something not related to the brain. It is truly everywhere. We may differ in our choice of words, but intelligence, reality, consciousness, awareness, ... are all just different attempts at pointing at this essence that "lives" or that "is" in everything.
The brain, the body and all other things are merely decoys to keep a mind go on a search for Truth forever. All things seen, all things that can be investigated and will be investigated will never reveal the truth or the reality of that essence that I refer to. For one reason only: all things investigate-able are NOT that indescribable essence. All things investigate-able are and will be described by a word/sound, but the essence of all expressible things will never be revealed by a word/sound. Not even my preferred word for it, which is Reality, will help people who haven't experienced it, further. As Ramana Maharshi has said: "all these books [on non-duality] can tell you to achieve enlightenment, but none can tell you what enlightenment actually reveals" (in my own words). One has to "experience" it for themselves. That is the only and also the sure way for all/one.
Peace
It’s only non dual. Everything else is a convenient hallucination
@@yoeyyoey8937 yes, but have you experienced it, experiencing it now or is it mental knowledge?
I am only asking because when non-duality is experienced, it is so marvelous and mundane/self-evident/so normal at the same time. It skips all single expression. Only a self-negating paradox come somehow close to expressing it.
Peace
@@oerantia9126 the self negating paradox you are referring to is the “mental knowledge”. The problem with that is that everytime you think you know what the nondual state is, you develop an attachment to it, which messes the whole thing up to start with
@@oerantia9126 sorry i reread this and realized I didn’t really answer your first question; Everyone is experiencing it all the time they just don’t know it.
Although, to be sure, you cannot “experience” it, you all ready just are it, so you are always that one but you don’t always realize it because you are attached to all manner of things that you think are more real than that one.
@@yoeyyoey8937 yes. I know why you are saying it like you do and it is not that I can 100% disagree with what you are saying, but why I say you have to experience Reality first hand, is based on my own life [experience] but also other accounts and other people’s expressions. And that for the “lucky ones” it isn’t just a glimpse, it is an ever present state of being, which is characterized by what I have experienced myself. And it definitely is not an intellectual understanding that can easily be repeated. I think the example given by the video is a very good example how we truly become that which we attention to, is an experiential understanding as well. Where I start using words like “but we are all that already” or the words that you gave it, is that there is no known (and therefore expressible) way to explain how we are able to do and even to be wat we truly are.
But here comes the topic that I was aiming at. It is just based on my “path”, which is just a series of experiences, that if one hasn’t experienced the total opposite of individuality one doesn’t know it. I can only imagine that either a glimpse, which is a temporary experience of non-duality or a permanent non-dual experience can bring this understanding. And I heard this also from Ramana Maharshi (RM). It was hé that said that a (temporary) nirvikalpa samadhi brings the same insight as his (permanent) sahaja samadhi. I don’t want to sound too technical about it. It is just so that what RM said applies completely to my own life. It was during my experience as well, that is was directly revealed that I truly do not exist as the person that I always thought I was. And that free will doesn’t really exist. And so much more: there was total desirelessness and because of it, there was a total fearlessness. All these and much much more are all “characteristics” of how an enlightened person experiences life.
So one way that one could assess whether one is enlightened is to see if one still experiences fear or has certain desires. If one does, there is still individuality as a root conviction and therefore as a root experience, no matter how feeble or distant it may be.
But this just my path, but this is also a reason why I distrust many spiritual speakers, although they can talk about many non-dual or consciousness related topics so well. For me, they often lack absoluteness in their talks or they deal too much with the picture (universe).
For me, I rather speak in paradoxes/opposites about the whole non-dual matter, because my own different non-dual experiences negated eachother quite often. Let me give another example: there was all of sudden “complete knowing”, that experience faded away and changed into “not knowing anything at all”. And now comes a key point about these two experiences: after I went through these experiences, both were seen to be absolutely true, although the one would negate the other. In true non-duality, from my experience, there is a total acceptance of everything, no matter how opposite they are.
Because this is “my” life, I cannot see how one could truly understand it unless one goes though a similar experience. But let me contradict myself as a sign that I am not truly sure of my life experiences, is that I have been in talks with a living person who is permanently in the non-dual state. And I have had many arguments with him as well :-). And there is a lot of stuff that he simply doesn’t seem to understand about what I am saying. I can only explain this due to the fact that although I am pretty convinced he is in the non-dual state, he simply doesn’t EXPERIENCE what I had experienced in my glimpses. One or I could say, that my experiences went really deep, but really deep. I never read anything like it, until 6-9 months after my two experiences had occured. First came Ramana Maharshi, a few months later “I” found Nisargadatta Maharaj. These two were so monumental in confirming my experiences.
I have had all sorts of discussions with people on this matter, so I have many ways to keep on discussing it, while I perfectly know the limitation of language. But what would you say to the following kind of objection: you say it cannot be experienced, but what would you say that if I would respond to that: “but don’t you experience that you are alive?” And next I would ask you “explain to me what aliveness is?” Not dragging in matters of the universe. I am talking of that kind of aliveness.
That aliveness cannot be explained/expressed/proven, while it can also not be denied.
What I therefore often end up, is saying “I don’t agree that it is not experiential, it is only not expressible”.
And to me, all scientific knowledge, all religious knowledge, all philosophical knowledge truly is just an attempt at expressing the Truth, while it truly only raises the next unanswerable question. And the state/stage of unanswerableness reveals (again) the complete mystery of Life. How we always attempt to express Life, while we truly/truthfully can’t. And these two opposites (paradox) continues forever.
Which reminds me of one of the aspects of my last non-dual experience: it was so clearly revealed that this expression, this universe, would go on forever. The universe was The Most Perfect Play Ever Invented. It is So Perfect it can go on forever. BUT there was this INDESCRIBABLE essence that has this INEXPLAINABLE potentiality intrinsically in itself that is the TRUE/TRUTH key to understanding the whole picture and what is hidden in the picture.
I am reading this myself as I am typing from memory: you see the point I am making or how my own insight got to where it is? I can only understand that one has to have experienced the WHOLE SPECTRUM of possibilities or at least some to the absolute extreme. Like there was the full lack of individuality vs individuality or like there was the visible [universe] vs the invisible [reality/potency] or like there was I am exactly the same “thing” as all objects and all people around me, while during individually I can’t experience this.
To me, it feels like the only way possible to truly understand the potentiality of Reality is to experience these extremes and then to understand that “I am the Inexpressible that is capable of all extremes/experiences”. There was also the experience of total emptiness which was followed by “but, it is full to the brim”. And still more.
So I am curious what comes to your mind, if you read this. It is not a matter of telling what is right or wrong. It is matter of telling what happened in You and I cannot speak for yourself but how convinced are you truly is also kind of thing I like to now. Some of my own experiences when I phrased/expressed them for myself, came out word for word, out of the mouth of Ramana Maharshi and Nisargadatta Maharaj. Nobody is able to change my mind or better, to come up with a better expression of how we can create a framework for Reality and the Universe. Maybe I have expressed it quite blurry and with not much order. But there is the visible and the invisible. If one hasn’t seen/experienced the airiness of non-bodily pure awareness/pure-intelligence e.g., I can’t imagine how they can know what cannot be expressed and what is being expressed. I am happy to be convinced otherwise. Rupert Spira is a person who I heard claim his self-realization appeared to have been undetectable or it was something so mundane. His search just stopped, but it is my feeling his use of words is misleading, because when all searching truly stops, it is a discrete shock, there is nothing gradual about it. You see how easy it is to mislead (unintentionally) people with words. We are all using words that are already part of the experience. That is why only a paradoxical, a self-negating experience of two opposites offers the full knowing, to me at least. Peace
Yes. This is beautiful pointing indeed.
The witnessing is (s)elf trying to escape (s)elf. The escape from this hilarious trap is to realize there is no (s)elf.
It’s all so cosmically funny.
What is “(s)elf”?
@@yoeyyoey8937
That which arose and prompted you to ask this question…
@@memento6204 what is that though? What if it was just a transient thought that prompted me to ask the question?
@@yoeyyoey8937
It’s that transient-ness of the thought that you are confusing for you, Awareness.
Your experience of awareness is seemingly so entangled with mind the two *seem* inseparable.
Try to discover, experientially, that which is PRIOR to mind: awareness.
All your thoughts, feelings, emotions, perceptions, arise out of awareness.
If you think this is a beautiful idea, you are only in association with a concept. In other words, you’re in belief.
This must be understood as experience to get separation from involuntary thought and it thus becomes clear that thoughts are just happening and not happening to a you.
Experiential contact with Awareness will establish this glimpse that you can continually return to.
@@memento6204 yes that makes sense but how did that prompt me to ask the question as opposed to thoughts? I don’t think “awareness” has any questions if I understood you correctly
After all these years I still don't get what draws people to non-duality or how it's so big. I came across many nondual teachers years ago when I started with meditation but almost none of them are really offering me anything. And I had many spiritual awakenings and experienced ego deaths, surrender and absorption into the I AM, and even the hint of what is beyond that.......
It's just so obtuse. The lyngo, the way it is dressed up. Rather than demystifying reality or these states of obersvation....a whole semi-religion is constructed around it. Whom does this serve?
A person wanting to taste they are one with the farbic of reality? The one who wants to enpower himself by coming to realize their multidimensional soul self as an energy being? Like............there's no sincerity behind it.
I can somewhat understand super left-brain bent people having it as a gateway to queston reality (since the wording and exercises and philosophy being so formulaic)....but past that........I don't feel it's something that ENPOWERS humans. It's not really trying to enpower people to understand reality or realize all these different states and awarenesses are theirs to sift through......but not because there was a thing called nonduality there that gifted it to them...........but because they are INTRINSIC experiences to being a consciousness incarnated in a human body. Nondual teachers are very happy to keep this idea, these are realizations based on a thing called "nonduality". That never even existed! It's just a map created by some humans....that probably isn't even being transparent about what it is ttaking them to.
Part of the problem is that language itself is dualistic (subject / object). I read somewhere that the only true evil is duality eg bright and dark. But that is as far as I have got.
Angelo is the best hands down
I see ypu almost everywhere XD
Alan watts gives the clearest explanation.
Twiceness is duality yet so is onceness because it implies not-onceness. There is no path to what is already and how could it be pointed to if the pointing and pointer are whats is already?
Excellent! Very helpful.
In any information system, you have a processor of information. Then the processor can process information. This is how it is, functionally. Self contains information. There is also information external to self.
Being aware of self is being aware of information of self.
jim newman speaks about non duality most eloquently that ive heard
Wow