I think the biggest evidence that we shouldn’t care so much is what happened with Kit Connor. People harassed him for being a “straight” person playing a queer and he had to come out before he wanted to. I’d love for queer roles to go to queer actors too, but at the same time, that’s it. I won’t be upset about a straight person playing a queer role partly because we can never know for sure
I think for me as well as long as you play it well I have no issue. One of my fave gay couples in teen shows is Kurt and Blaine from Glee. The actor for Blaine (Darren Criss) is straight and he is such an amazing actor and had me so invested in their love story. Like when he was crying over Kurt I was crying too 😭😭😭
@@imetwurld-ey9sxstories about gay men written by women tend to be made for an audience of women. You can kind of tell based on the tropes that are used. A lanky femme bottom, a beefy masculine top, the gay best friend, the gay couple with the perfect relationship, the promiscuous chaotic gay, a gay character's journey with their identity being the entire plot, etc. That's not to say that cisgender straight women CAN'T write stories about gay men, it's that it's easier to write with nuance when the creator is closer in proximity to the subject of identity.
@@sumlembut look at how even when stories are written by gay men AKA Roberto Aguirre Sacasa...the characters are terrible and homophobic. For example, Riverdale with Cheryl who is homophobic and gay and inconsistent, Kevin Keller who's only personality trait is being gay. So I disagree with your statement. If any writer wants to write about queer characters they should consult with queer voices or be active in the communities and do their research adequately. That is part of being a writer; learning and writing about things outside of your comfort box. In this case, subjects you don't know.
there's a lot of nuance to this. queer writers, directors, and producers should be there. i don't think there's anything wrong with straight people playing queer characters as long as the acting is well done. there is also another aspect to this where we're basically forcing people to come out just so it can be announced that hey! this queer person is playing a queer character! we don't know all these actors' sexualities and we aren't entitled to know.
that's how the Heartstopper actor was outed! it was unfair for him because he was put in an uncomfortable position where the whole world was watching him. imagine being outed in front of the whole world?
this is basically how I feel - if there’s a queer director then any unnecessary stereotypes can be avoided which allows for good representation without digging into the personal lives of the actors !!
@@johnindigo5477 I understand what you're saying but at the same time they're not gonna put two blacks guys cuz no one will give a f about that. They won't put a mixed couple to since it would'nt be real cuz of the sigma and racist stereotype of black/asian people in that so called tolerant community.
@@sadie9205no Ryan Murphy makes sure he does all the stereotypes and he cast straight people for gay roles, but at the end of the day there is no such thing as a gay story, every one has a different story if you want to say, or experience, so even if you do have a gay person playing a gay role because 1. You or them are not telling their story or your story that will even relate to someone who is gay watching
*The problem **_isn't_** that a straight actor is playing a gay character. The real, actual problem is that there just aren't enough gay movies out there. The more gay characters there are, the more opportunities there will be for gay actors. We just need to tell Hollywood to make more.*
@@AngelisaHassan Where they had to be closeted to get most of those roles historically. If sexuality in the business wasn't important, there would be no need for execs and agents to pressure gay actors to be closeted.
I'm a (theater) actor and I have been in rooms where the director asked actors if they were gay when casting a queer role. I think that is inappropriate. There are a lot of actors who keep their sexual identity to themselves, closeted or not. I don't think someone should have to out themselves in order to play a role they identify with.
Yeah but most likely they are always heterosexual though. Most big male actors in Hollywood identify or if they dont identify they most likely live an hetero life irl
First show I directed was about queer women. I remember as a first time director feeling weird about casting straight girls. Obviously i wasn’t asking, but i knew some of the actors. The strongest actors were straight, but that was a humbling lesson for me because truly no one could have done those characters in the show i was doing better than those 2 girls. The production was such a success and at the end of the day as actors they are bringing general humanity to the characters. And me as a director (and queer) i was the one responsible to frame the story properly for the audience. Im of the strong belief for queer successful stories the actor’s sexualities are not important, is about directors and writers. Those who make and frame the stories. Also for context my anecdote is about theatre not film
I don't really mind if straight actors play queer characters, or vice versa. As long as their acting is decent, then their real life sexual orientation shouldn't matter. Neil Patrick Harris played womaniser Barney Stinson for almost a decade, while being gay himself.
Yes, Neil Patrick Harris played a straight character, but the important detail is that he wasn't publicly out until How I Meet Your Mother had been on the air for several seasons. Since he came out and the show has ended, NPH has only played gay roles. This has also happened to Matt Bomer who played a ladies man type on White Collar and Jim Parsons who played an iconic nerd on The Big Bang Theory. No matter how famous or talented an actor is, once they come out their career is massively limited to the few available gay roles.
@colinneagle4495 yep and it really sucks. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to come out for fear of it limiting their chance at straight roles, so not demanding peoples' sexuality is the only way.
Celebrities owe their fame to the people who drool over them. NPH flunked his career when he came out and was known for playing straight characters. I think it’s fucked up. They sold a lie and when the lie was discovered they didn’t sell anymore. People don’t really care if you are one thing or the other but don’t sell lies. I don’t think it benefits anyone. You can’t hide that forever and at some point people will feel deceived and lied to. I understand there’s not many roles for non-straights but I don’t think hiding it and playing it "safe" works on the long run, NPH being a perfect example. Because when he came out after years, almost a decade of straight women drooling over him, straight women don’t want to see him playing a straight role anymore, we don’t want a fantasy with a gay man, it’s fucked up. Same goes for queer baiting and straight actors.
I've only started to hear about this controversy after what happened with him. I can't take the other side what happened was NOT ok. It is a movie it is a show. Actors are REAL people.
11:08 I think a big reason why sapphic media has such a short lifespan is that their audience is ONLY sapphic women. Most men just want to see lesbians kiss and get hard, they don't care about the complex relationships WLW woman have. Unlike women, who are the main consumers of MLM media, THEY care about the characters and story, along with also enjoying the mlm relationship. It's sad that Sapphic stories are told much less than MLM stories, I enjoy MLM, but I want to see more WLW stories.
The other problem being wlw is far more common in animation. Giving the impression sapphic stories are less sexual, less adult, less complicated, or even more safe
Let's not act like the majority of female MLM consumers, don't focus on the physical aspect of it as well. The most popular shows are the ones where the actors are attractive, because straight women like to see handsome men kiss. It's equally as problematic as males sexualising sapphic relationships, women are no better in this situation.
@@milli3377 Oh, of course, women sexualize MLM relationships just as much as men do, if not more. There's a reason that the most popular ships in practically any fandom are two attractive men. (Usually with one being infantilized) It's digusting on both levels, I was just focusing on why sapphic media has such a shrt lifespan.
I'm happy for straight actors to play queer roles, but I do expect queer people to be overrepresented in the cast of queer productions, both in front of the camera and behind the camera. That said, the majority of queer male actors seem to be glass closeted or actively lying about their orientation still, so that's part of why I feel that we should extend grace to "straight" actors in queer roles.
Not the majority. I know several gay, high-profile actors. All but one of them are publicly out, and the one that’s not doesn’t do much to hide it, he just doesn’t discuss it in interviews.
i feel like it doesn’t just come down to the actor but the other creators of the role, like did a queer person write the character? direct the movie/show? write the screenplay? you can’t actually ask the actor if they’re gay or not before you hire them, but if there are out queer people who created that representation of queerness then at least you can assume it won’t be mocking or a caricature.
The job of an actor is basically to pretend to be someone you’re not. I’m gay as gay can be, but I’m still waiting for Jessica Capshaw to come back to Grey’s Anatomy. She played her character so well that I didn’t even know she was straight and married to a man until I looked it up.
Idea: We shouldn't care about an actor's sexuality. They don't owe us info about their private life, no matter what the sexuality of their characters are.
Yes. Actors should be actors. The MINUTE you start saying that ONLY queer actors should play queer characters, the industry WILL USE THIS to STOP queer actors from playing STRAIGHT characters. The whole POINT is humans are playing characters.
Exactly. I cannot remember that Anthony Hopkins needed to proof that he killed a lot of people to play a serial killer. It's called acting, pretend to be a character you are not in "real life" 😀
Precisely. The people clamoring to have only queer actors portray queer characters seem to forget at least two unpleasant consequences. One, the logical conclusion is that only straight actors will be allowed to play straight characters, only bisexual actors are permitted to play bisexual characters, etc. Second, it would mean requiring actors to reveal their sexuality when auditioning for roles. Is that really what we want? I think not.
@@Itz.masonfox Then why is the question "Should straight actors play gay characters?" instead of "How do you get hollywood to cast more openly queer actors" ? The acts show a different objective than your words
I don’t mind if straight actors play gay characters BUT often the reverse is not true - where gay actors get away with playing straight characters on the regular. Thats starting to change a little bit, but often being an out gay actors means the industry puts you in a box, while straight actors get to play whatever and get awarded for it.
I think that's an American issue more so. In Britain you have Andrew Scott, Ian McKellan, Jonathan Bailey, Ben Wishaw, all play straight roles. But I feel it's harder for US actors.
@@ericamacs3875 It's also an international issue. If you are Disney, and you know a gay lead will get boycotted in India or China, would you hire them? This is a big part of why so many American actors are closeted because theres more reliance on international markets for blockbusters
Personally it depends, it's nice to see representation of queer folks in media played by openly queer people, as long as they're openly queer. But sometimes those queer roles can go to straight actors (or vice versa) because that actor might have nailed the character because sexuality isn't your personality, it's just a normal part of who you are- you can't tell if someone is queer by the way they look or act btw. For me we NEED QUEER WRITERS AND CREAVTIVES to write these characters authentically or it doesn't feel like we're stereotyped. That way straight actors can portray their roles correctly and be better allies (we can't have another queer outing, like what happened to Kit Connor, again.
While I agree with you on the need for more queer writers and creatives, I don't agree on non-queer writers not being able to write these stories. I'm not saying you're saying that. Just wanted to add that here. I think that any writer can write about any subject but to do so without having experienced it, they have to do research, great research. Because like actors like Kit Connor who was outed, the author of Love, Simon was also outed due to the whole controversy of a non-queer writer writing queer stories.
I also think we should consider the fact that some actors just don’t want to come out publically. It took years for Elliot Page come out. I will always think about the amount of people in the public eye that are hiding a queer identity. Also, as a pretty long time doctor who fan, the doctor has been quite openly queer for a while, but I think bc it started with David Tennent who is seen as straight publically, it was more accepted. And with further seasons, the writing was so bad that the queerness of it was was somewhat overshadowed by that. But with Nchuti, he is blck and openly queer and people really don’t like that… especially in England.
Not just Elliot Page. Quite a few out actors took years. Ian McKellan was in his 40s. Ben Wishaw took quite a long time as well. Luke Evans. There was an actor recently who came out, and I've now forgotten who it was because it was someone from a show I didn't watch, but apparently he had been fake dating an actress for 10 years or so. Also Sarah Paulson, Gillian Anderson. I'm sure there are others.. It's a perennial issue.
I would love when they have bisexual representation it was complex and nuanced... because it's always used for the gay characters to step on rheir journey so it makes us look "fake" in a way, or we are cheaters, or we are gay baiting and it causes so much pain and strife ❤
And I'd really love if there was another way to convey a character was bi other than the being hypersexual and having many one night stands with both sex.
@@oyindamolaoluwadiya180 EXACTLY!! i am bisexual and the way i convey myself is so different that I question if I was a true bisexual cause I am not a cheater, a hypersexual person or other bi stereotypes that's shown to be the "bisexual" character mold for media
They're doing better with the bi rep. Nick in Heartstopper and Alex in RWRB are both repping bi, and the journeys are theirs. We still, however, have an issue with Bi men in relationships with women from what I've seen. There's still the stigma of "why not just make him straight, then?" in Hollywood. Whereas, with bi characters in relationships with men, Hollywood views them as interchangeable with gay characters, and their stories are identical. So, far, Nick in Heartstopper is the only male Bi I've seen with a journey that's distinctly Bi. We see him figuring it out while still in a monogamous relationship, and has to learn that everyone just assumes he's gay when they learn he has a boyfriend.
@@oyindamolaoluwadiya180exactly it's always "hey, this dude sleeps around with girls, BUT ALSO WITH BOYS OCCASIONALLY. HOW GROUNDBREAKING." It's just lazy and pushes into the stereotype that bisexual are just hypersexual assholes
Idk if you've watched 9-1-1 but one of the main characters just figured out he's bisexual in the latest season and it's a character who fans have long thought to be bisexual, and was done in a respectful way. It was a short season with a lot going on, but a lot of bi people have said they feel very good about the way it's been written so far... 🙃
10:18 I feel like this is also a representation of how misogyny does not only affect "women", but also feminine presenting queer people. Every feminine presenting queer role being deemed as unserious can be compared to how cishet women have been presented in the past. I genuinely hope that these characters get the character arcs that don't necessarily revolve around them being ditsy and whatever. With queer representation being more common, I honestly hope and pray things get better and we get more complex stories 😭
I personally think directors and the casting directors should vouch for queer actors to play queer characters. This goes to show that straight people have way more privilege than queer people because straight people are seen are being more marketable. I also feel like straight actors in some cases seem like caricatures of the queer character they are portraying because people tend to think queer people are monolithic (they’re not).
@@imuRgencythat is a matter of writing not performance. And, in that case, should people like Jonathan Bailey lose his job because he is gay playing a straight person. It is called acting - the role should be open to anybody who can convincingly deliver the script and the emotions behind them. I say this to remind you, the pendelum swings both ways.
What if this expectation forces actors to come out before they were ready? Due to audiences badgering them for being “straight” while playing a gay role. I’ve heard that has happened with some actors recently. The actor was comfortable playing the gay role while still being publicly “straight” irl, but audience reactions forced them to come out irl before the actor chose themselves to come out.
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sri think they should consider “out” queer people first. and then if they do hire a “cis/het” person, people should respect that that person was the best option and move along. protecting irl queer people is what is most important, and why this conversation is even being had to begin with.
Actually Nicholas Galitzine's breakout roles is from few years ago for the Amazon's Cinderella and Netflix's Purple Heart, he gotten more recognition last year for Red, White & Royal Blue and this year after the release of The Idea of You movie with Anne Hathaway. For your question, I don't think that actors personal business is ours to know, as long as they can bring the character to screen and the acting is decent, it is enough. What i don't like however is when the actors was questioned the same question over and over after they already clarified. For example, Nicholas was asked this same question many times or he was quoted in interview many times before he was given other question. I dont think other actors in same situation was given same treatment . Matthew Lopez (a gay man, rwrb director) and Oliver Hermanus (a gay man, Mary & George director) mentions in interviews that they interviewed a lot of other actors before casting Nicholas so it is not really that he was a go-to actors for the projects. Another hot topic is that i think the MLM fandoms is really toxic, the ship culture is sometimes out of bound...the fans sometimes cannot differentiate between the actors and the fictional characters that they played...Nicholas also faced these kind of issues whether he know it or not (i think he did know about it since they tagged him in ig) the fans shipped him with his costar and accused him of wanting to slept with the actor in real life which is disgusting and super gross, i guess Nicholas acting must be super realistic for them to accuse him like that.
I also would like to throw this into the discussion and id like to see you cover this in a video is the fact that even when they do have queer actors playing queer characters, they never branch out & always use the same actors and always is mainly for white gays so there is also that factor i think is also an important because even when you have a straight actor pkaying a queer role, its always a white woman or man
I agree with everything that you said Rumi, but I want to add that playing a queer role could also provide an opportunity for straight actors to empathize with an experience they never had and extending that empathy by raising awareness with their platform. However, that should be done by highlighting the queer experience, and thus highlighting queer people who have actually lived that experience.
I will say that i prefer queer actors playing queer characters, but if they do happen to have a straight actor i would need them to actually read and listen to queer literature, queer experiences and have a queer person for consultation ❤
Which most of the straight actors playing gay roles tend to do (most*). Good actors research their roles heavily in order to give the best performance they can. That's why I'm rarely hard on straight actors in gay roles, since, for the most part, they're trying to do the role proud.
i tend to prefer when queer characters are played by queer actors. but i'm okay with straight actors playing queer characters. my favourite queer character is played by (at least to my knowledge) a straight actor. like you said, if the actor isn't queer there NEEDS to be queer people somewhere in the production team. this would avoid more unnecessarily traumatic queer stories e.g. the bury your gays trope.
That’s the problem tho. Y’all are not understanding. A straight person is going to get a gay role faster than an OPENLY gay, dare me say fem, gets a straight role. That’s the conversation. Not the sexualities.
tbh in my opinion as long as the actor is respectful and understand the impact of what they are doing is okay, there is no problem, and especially in such a heteronormative society where we have to label everything and everyone but i do understand the lack of actual queer actors that should be able to get these roles and be represented
I have a question, in an ideal world where people don’t care about someone’s sexuality like how we assume people are straight, would that mean only straight actors play straight roles and queer actors only play queer roles?
@@nknk4927You’re real as fuck for this actually. This is the biggest reason why this convo is happening- straight privilege is REAL and it’s reflected in casting even of gay characters
i say it doesn’t really matter since i mean its acting as long as they act as the character correctly i see no problem but it would be better for them to cast queer actors.
Right? Why should everyone else’s sexuality be our business? It seems crazy that an actor would have to divulge personal information about themselves to get a job.
@@froggypapi6687I agree but it’s very hypocritical bc OPENLY gay men don’t get jobs. But straight men can get them. This is all favored to toxic masculinity. Ofc sexuality doesn’t matter… when you’re not openly gay/fem.
I think that an actor’s sexuality is largely irrelevant to the sexuality of the character they play, as long as there is someone (be that a director, producer, writer etc) behind the scenes who is LGBTQIA+ so the story can be authentically told. This is mostly because I don’t think an actor should have to be out in order the play a queer role (thinking of the Kit Connor situation that happened with Heartstopper ‘fans’ in particular) because that’s their personal choice
Fem presenting women are represented far more than masc or androgynous women in queer roles (at least within romance related media). I get the arguments you are making and the impact misogyny has on fem presenting queer people. I just wanted to point out that within sapphic representation this dynamic is backwards, masc women are the more comedic or lighthearted side characters and are usually not in romance. Sapphic romance is often two feminine women, or maybe one is slightly more androgynous than the other.
That’s because femininity is expected in women, it does go outside the heteronormative gaze, while masculine women do, as do feminine men, but masculine men don’t
I just wanted to mention that actors taking roles they are comfortable with without specifying their sexuality should be normal. You can't only let queer people play queer roles because taking a role alone would be them admitting to being queer without specifying, which would led to people's unneeded speculations. I would personally be against it just for the lack of queer content and representation we would see in media from this standard. Also, a straight man playing a queer role because they are comfortable with it combats this awful misogynistic wave we are seeing now.
i might not be able to have an opinion on this and I get that, but to me straight actors should be able to play lgbt characters and lgbt actors should be able to play straight characters. as long as they can accurately portray the role, who cares. i feel like a lot of the discourse around this is really reductive because we all remember what happened to Kit Connor. He was bi, but just not ready to come out, but did because he was getting so much hate for being "straight" and felt like he had something to prove. i feel like the only gray area would be trans characters
@@nknk4927 I’ll give you more than 5, lmao: Men: Matt Bomer, Jonathon Bailey, Wentworth Miller, Cheyenne Jackson, Neil Patrick Harris, Colton Haynes, Brandon Flynn, Jonathon Bennett, Luke Evans, Andrew Scott Women: Sarah Paulson, Jane Lynch, Janelle Monae, Kristen Stewart, Jodie Foster We can have the conversation that the switch is not equal for straight and gay actors, but don’t act like there aren’t any gay actors who are the switch even AFTER coming out publicly, please be real
@samcarmen Lord please! I SAID ONPENLY GAY BEFORE acting! And you just throw a bunch of the people that came out AFTER their role. And I don't count 2 of them in that list since they are very recent. And I was talking about GAY MAN not WOMAN cuz we know who is more rejected in HOLLYWOOD
@@samcarmen My point is once they know that those people are gay they don't wanna give them the opportunity so they have to HIDE themselves BEFORE getting the roles. The double standard is there. If a straight actor get to play a gay role without consequences the same should apply to gay men aswell
@@nknk4927 1) you never said “before”. You might’ve been thinking it, but that’s not what you said and 2) I literally supplied you with queer actors who’ve played straight roles AFTER they came out In case you didn’t know… Matt Bomer - came out 2012 - Magic Mike Trilogy (2012-2023), The Last Tycoon (2016) Jonathan Bailey - public coming out unclear but he came out to his family and friend at early 20s, so… - Bridgerton (2020), Wicked (2024) Wentworth Miller - came out 2013 - stated he’s not interested in playing straight characters anymore Cheyenne Jackson - came out 2005 - Descendant 3 (2019) and so much more films truly Neil Patrick Harris - came out 2006 - The Smurfs (2011, 2013), A Series of Unfortunate Events (2017) Colton Haynes - came out 2016 - Swindler Seduction (2022) Brandon Flynn - came out 2017 - Looks That Kill (2020) Luke Evans - came out 2002? - Dracula Untold (2014), Beauty and the Beast (2017), etc Jonathan Bennett - came out 2017 - Christmas Made to Order (2018) Andrew Scott - came out 2013 - Fleabag (2016), 1917 (2019), etc
They are actors. That's it ! While it's nice to see that ppl who are gay play a gay character but as long it's a good story and played well. Why does it matter? Without social media we would never know these actors sexual orientation also in reality we still don't know them either
It matters because some are just homophobic/don't care about what the comunity going through. like you said for them it just an act. And if i'm going by your logic that means a cis woman can play a trans woman role and a black guy can play a white character but see a lot of people seems to have problems with that. You just have to see what is happening online now when a black person get a major role every one cry WOKE WOKE WOKE....
@@nknk4927 once again how would u know a person acting a character is homophobic/ not an ally without social media. Back then all we saw was actors and actresses acting like Hillary swank in boys don't cry and Wayan Bros have played white ppl before so it can be done I'm not online cause of the cancel culture cause of this. Black ppl back then had great shows without it being woke or whatever. Any actor that makes u feel the character emotions should be rewarded regardless of what their sexual orientation is or what they belief in. That's none of our business at the end of the day.
@nknk4927 I've seen a few of your comments and you aren't exactly grasping this concept. 1. It's okay if the actor/actress doesn't want to say their sexuality because it could get them less roles in the industry, OR if that labeled straight person is forced to come out as queer after playing a queer role, they get shoved into a box and play only stereotypes and eventually are only used for their queerness. 2. As og said, if it weren't SM or news outlets, then we would have 0 clue of what their sexuality is. 3.Take Rob who plays Mac on its always sunny. Mac is a up and down catholic with extreme internalized homophobia but eventually comes out as gay, he does a good job. And that's because Mac being gay isn't the ONLY trait he is as a character. Him being gay isn't what makes up his character therefore I often forget he's played by a straight man. [+ Robs brother is gay which I think is cool]
The actual actors getting the jobs doesn’t matter what their sexuality is. That isn’t the topic and shouldn’t be. The topic is the fact OPENLY gay/fem actors don’t get jobs. Sexuality only doesn’t matter if you’re straight or not openly gay. So yes it does matter. Not in the sense of someone’s personal life tho.
I agree with the guy who played Sam in Dynasty (sorry, forgot his name) in that NO your sexuality shouldn’t be e typecasted BUT queer people should be able to tell their own stories. It honestly wouldn’t be such a big deal if only there were more queer actors or just queer people in the industry in general.
If a straight actor and LGBTQ actor audition for the LGBTQ role and the straight actor gave the more compelling performance, I would feel no shame in hiring the actor who delivered the best performance, period. This reminds of the discourse when Black British actors were accused of “stealing roles” from Black American actors because they never lived a Black American experience and it was subtly hinted that should be cognisant and maybe even step aside. Acting is extremely competitive. I understand the hesitancy, but I don’t expect any actor to fall on their sword and give up a golden opportunity in a dog eat dog industry. May the best actor win the role. 🏆
But tbh i'm a queer and trans person but I'm so down to play straight and cis roless. I think we just need more queer and trans actors no matter what role they're playing.
“true” queer representation that comes at the expense of an actor’s mental or emotional wellbeing is not true representation to me. forcing someone out of the closet (in kit’s case) is not worth it to me.
The fans didn't understand the story well,It's basically one of the first lessons the coach said to the boys on the story,but people don't see what they don't want to see.
I agree… but also not giving that representation roles and jobs isn’t representative at all either. Always giving roles to straight actors is not the same as an openly fem gay actor trying to get any basic ass fucking acting job. It’s not the same and they’re not treated the same. No sexuality only gives straight people/acting the advantage. No one needs to disclose their identity. Nor give us personal information. But gay actors deserves the same opportunities. You know they barely get straight roles.. so the fact they can’t even get gay roles shows gay people will never win unless we have more representation OF OPENLY GAY people.
I kinda love that a lot of ppl are seeing nuances in this topic, bc although I understand it, I feel like the whole “it’s just acting” argument feels a lil empty
I think to have authentic queer stories, there need to be queer writers in the room.... I'm torn about this topic... especially because you could turn it around and say, no straight roles for queer people for lack of lived experience. : ) and those queer actors would have a hard time making a living...
I totally get not wanting to applaud straight people for taking on queer roles and normalizing such, when queer actors have trouble booking non-queer roles. BUT, I do think the context that Brokeback Mountain was released in 2005 when calling things 'gay' and slinging gay slurs was even more common than today, I think it was significant that actors like Gyllenhaal did work to destigmatize queer roles in general. Ya, they can't speak of the queer experience themselves, but they also did attempt to work towards progress that queer roles in film and television shouldn't be so destructive to anyone's career. Actresses like Laura Dern was essentially shunned from Hollywood after playing Ellen Degeneres' love interest back in the late 90s. Back then, straight people taking on queer roles was risky compared to today.
As someone who is planning on being an actor(and as someone who is queer), once I graduated college next year, I don’t think that sexuality is a faction of identity that needs to be played by someone who belongs to that identity. Race and gender identity I feel like those two things do need to be played by someone who actually belongs to those communities but things such as sexuality and religion I don’t think you need to belong to those communities to play those characters. But the people telling the story behind the scenes (mainly the writers) should always be apart of those communities so that they can properly tell those stories without it being a guessing game
I watched Interview with the Vampire and you couldn't tell me that Jacob Anderson wasn't queer. He identifies as straight but was open to fully embracing the role and didn't want to play into stereotypes. I'm fine with it as long as the actor puts some respect on the role.
I've seen gay roles played by straight people that I thought were good. For me, it's the writing. And I think it is a serious issue if the only public representation for gay people (and broader for queer people) are unrealistic to the point of fetishization. Seriously, we have situations where gay men using their natural voices are referred to as "ugly stereotypes" - looking at some of the commentary on Dan Levy playing David Rose or Chris Colfer playing Kurt. The criticism of have of "Love Simon" still holds even though the writer was a closeted bisexual woman. It still centers straight people and heteronormativity. From the declaration at the beginning that "I'm just like you. For the most part my life is totally normal." ie. Gayness is the part that is abnormal. Through his sole personality, motivations, and life goals being that he's gay. To accepting his friends abandoning him when he came out - without calling out their homophobia. To the end where there's nothing left of his story once he's come out and got a boyfriend. That compares to Heartstopper where coming out and getting a boyfriend doesn't solve the rest of the characters' problems.
Okay but just want to point out that Paul Mescal has never referred to himself as straight publicly, as far as I can tell, and when asked about straight actors playing gay on the red carpet he responded 'Assumptions are dangerous, and that's all I'll say on that,' before Andrew Scott jumped in to answer the question. Andrew Scott later said in another interview that we need to stop presuming everyone is straight until proven otherwise. Now i don't know Paul Mescal's sexual orientation, as he said assumptions are dangerous, so I will not assume anything either way but I think both him and Andrew make very valid points and those points are even more important I feel after what happened to Kit Connor. I think we need to be a bit more careful about making presumptions about actors sexualities and consider the consequences of doing so before the same thing happens again. Also she's not an actor but Billie Eilish has talked about how everyone had decided she was queer before she knew herself and how it feels to have everyone think they know who you are and the pressure that put in her to publicly come out when she did realise she liked girls when what she really wanted to do is just exist. The way we view public figures sexualities as information we are entitled to is really fucked honestly
There’s a massive difference between the social privilege of an out gay person vs a closeted gay person, and it’s reflected in Hollywood casting. I’m okay with putting pressure on straight actors in general to give up work to gay actors, but targeting and questioning specific actors is morally reprehensible
@@TayloredTalk You do know bisexuals and pansexuals exist? As well as people who choose not to label themselves or who only label themselves as queer? And also some people can think they're one sexuality and realise later they're in fact another?
The answer is so fucking simple and it’s not complex AT ALL!!!!!!! Yes. Yes they should. The best actor (no matter their sexuality) should get the role. Period. The end.
Ideally thats how Hollywood would work, but it's simply not how it does. If you dont want to make it complex you dont have to, but you'd be ignoring the real life complexities.
When people say ‘only gay actors should play gay roles,’ they may not realise but what they’re actually saying is ‘if an actor is playing a queer role they HAVE to come out as gay.’
My opinion isn't that straight actors shouldn't play queer roles, it's that they shouldn't play thr important ones. For example, lets say it's a random tv drama with some side characters who are queer (for example Kevin/Cheryl from Riverdale)......idc about a straight person playing those roles.......but when we are doing movies/Series about real life people or a story where the MAIN character is queer.......i want to see someone who has some irl experience and is open about it taking that part.
I try not to judge "straight" people for taking these queer roles because we don't know them and what goes on behind closed doors........but we have to many openly queer people trying to make it out here who aren't being given the opportunity to show what they can do. Edit: and reflecting on this comment more of the blame should go to producers/casting directors because at the end of the day......All of these actors are just trying to make a name for themselves. It's responsibility of the people in charge of these decisions who claim they want queer people to be represented then continue to only cast people who publicly identify as straight.
my problem with people hating on actors that haven't said they're queer is that people ASSUME they're straight. A great example is Kit Connor. This just perpetuates the idea that everyone is hetero unless stated otherwise. STOP THIS.
People assume I’m straight, because I don’t outwardly tell them otherwise. It’s personal and not anyone’s business. I’m not hiding my bisexuality, just don’t feel the need to broadcast it. It’s between me and a partner and nobody else. So maybe all these actors you listed are straight, maybe they’re bi, pan, whatever. Maybe they’re outward about it, most people just keep it private though. You don’t know if any of them are actually straight.
Before I dive into the video. Just posing a quick question. You asked a question does straight actors playing queer characters take away from queer people telling their stories? Well my question is isn’t that the writer or director who is telling or writing said story?? The actor is acting. Granted I would like the role to go to a queer man who could relate more to the character but if miss mama is eating her role down that’s what it is! Similar to Annabeth with the Percy Jackson tv reboot they had a fit she was black. But the casting agent or direction and Rick himself said she embodied Annabeth to the T no matter the skin color. I’m going to continue the video just had this thought before I finished the video.
yall need to read a book and touch grass. this isnt a nuanced conversation at all. as a filmmaker myself and someone who has gone to film school and has wrote many scripts and casted a lot of short films its who ever fits the roll the best and who ever acts the best. jollywood isnt such a liberal place as we think it is. Hollywood cosplays as a liberal utopia but in the reality of things is very conservative. if yall actually use your critical thinking skills that it seems like you dont have you would knoe if a actor who isn’t (ie kit connor) it’s extremely dangerous for them to play these characters because they are forced to come out or stay in the closet in order to still have a career (ie hugh jackman). what do the teacher teach you in school like this isnt a hard concept
I appreciate hearing from people actually involved in the business, what you say reflects what Matthew Lopez said about casting for RWRB. 1) you can't ask actors their sexuality and 2) it's acting and it's their job so you cast who embodies the role best. When it comes down to it, limiting queer roles to queer actors harms those who don't want to come out, and would also limit the pool of actors available to play queer roles. There are downsides either way for queer actors due to homophobia, but one option is definitely better than the alternative.
Random anecdote: I was in Hollywood for a bit, booked some gigs, worked with some people but saying all that to say, 90% of my auditions were gay roles and it was probably more than 90%. And over half of those roles it was the only black character. I honestly feel like those bubbled writers and mono-cultural writer rooms don’t know what to do with black actors. It doesn’t matter if it was a role for a personal trainer with body-image issues who misses his best friend, or a strait-laced lawyer who always wins the case, they were gay. And I’m not saying this as a “they’re making all the roles gay” just more like I don’t think it’s real representation they’re just trying to throw us in there and check boxes. All that to say: We need more Black creators with different intersections in those fields and more importantly, we gotta make our own content and watch that.
about femme queer roles that aren't a comedic relief, the one that i thought of immediately was chester from genera+ion, it's an ensemble cast, but he is an important main character, and he is allowed complexity while being a femme character. but even in that example, it's a femme role, but justice smith is not one of the people viewed as femme, so that's a thing. i think we do need more shows like generation though bc it was literally a show all about queer people, so you can allow yourself multiple kinds of complex characters. its the same thing as with every rep, don't have just one
The problem is we're not at a place in society (yet) where femme queer storylines bring in money for box offices. Right now, they're really niche and hard to come by, and only queer audiences will watch them.
Segregating parts only for ppl who match the character seems like a never ending battle, each group could argue the same lines, resulting in nerfed projects imo. The writing and storytelling should be improved regardless
I think actors should be able to act. Straights should be able to play gays, and vice versa. Being able to believably become a different person is a very important part of being a good actor. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion. If you can't transform yourself into a person who is very different from yourself, you're probably a pretty meh actor.
It’s a toss up between a Nicholas Galitzine situation, a Kit Connor situation, or a James Corden situation lol. Obviously we love allies but we should also look at how studios constantly casts straight people for queer roles. It’d be ideal to share the space but we need to be given the room to start.
I can't say about anything else since I'm only in RWRB fandom so I've looked at a lot about the movie and book, but at least in that case the director/writer is gay and was fully involved with casting. And it's clear that the presentation and handling of queerness was of the utmost importance to him, but he was open about how he was strictly casting to find the perfect actors otherwise he wouldn't want to make it. He also mentioned you can't legally ask actors their sexuality which is totally fair. It's just unfortunate that due to homophobia that (openly) queer actors just don't get the same opportunities. Which then leads to queer actors wanting to not be out to not lessen their own opportunities. Hopefully this gets better over time.
In my personal opinion, acting is acting, and it doesn’t always have to be about sexuality. But the issue does have a lot of complication and layers so I totally understand why people would get upset when straight actors play gay characters
Gay/straight isn’t a lifestyle, it’s a sexual preference. Whoever is best for the part should get the part, regardless of sexuality. Saying only someone who is gay in real life can play a gay character, or only someone who is straight in real life can play a character, is like saying only someone who is attracted to redheads in real life can play a character who is specifically attracted to redheads in a movie. Acting is acting, and not everyone will want to reveal their sexual preference anyway.
I’ve experienced being type casted as the comic relief characters in live theater as well. In live theater, everything is a bit more dramatic. And tho I present as a cis woman, it’s still very obvious to many people that I am a feminine queer person. I only ever receive roles that are the awkward shy character or the comic relief characters, which frequently bars me from playing larger lead roles that can be taken more seriously. Many “female” roles on theater are love interests and they need to play up the mystery and sex appeal. I have never been afforded the chance to play a character like that if it wasn’t in the ensemble. Closest I got was plying Janet in Rocky Horror, however Rocky Horror is very camp and Janet is still played mostly as a ditzy comedic relief who doesn’t have a huge effect on the events of the story, they sort of just happen to her except for her taking charge for like one scene. All this to say, the stigma against feminine characters, specifically queer feminine characters and therefore queer feminine actors is too true and there needs to be more serious plot lines for them
I just could never believe people who said there wasn't enough queer talent. Like how could we simultaneously have the (in my experience very true) stereotype of queer people in theatre and somehow think there aren't enough queer actors. (yes I understand that stage and film acting are two different things but the people very frequently move between both) And I am by no means saying that every gay theatre kid is going to grow up to be at the caliber of a big hollwood star, but still, if a higher percentage of actors are queer than the general population, it likely cannot be extremely difficult to find queer talent.
Didn't Luke Evans (openly gay for his entire career) say that his sexuality doesn't have anything to do with his career - that his career is one thing, & his personal life another? If a director wants a gay actor for a 'straight role' ('Dracula Untold', for instance), or vice versa- is that not a statement to the director's belief in the actors' skill, or the belief that the actor has what it takes to embody the character in question? Is that not what should be encouraged? No one being pigeonholed over their private life or beliefs, against getting a role...?
First, this question is stupid. If you can act, then you can act. Gay people have been playing straight roles for years and straight have been playing gay ones if they have the talents and skill that what matters.
Why is this even a question? Being a straight actor playing a gay character shouldn’t have any kind of negative affect on a movie it’s all about the script not if the person is a gay person in real life. The issue is people treat it like it’s a black person playing a white person???🙄
i’m always on the side of ‘the best actor for the role should be the one in the job’ but we all know there are so many incredible gay actors who just aren’t getting those roles for whatever reason, meanwhile the same cookie cutter looking straight men are consistently getting those roles
what bothers me the most is that we're in an age where we have SO many talented queer actors out there and yet we only see the same 3 straight men being casted in these roles like come oooooon i can't stand to see josh o'connor nicholas galitzine or paul mescal in a gay role again.
then consume non-American media. i find that limiting your media to solely one country isn't diverse enough. i mean, you could watch media from anywhere the world and see the diverse stories of queer people around the globe.
@@forgotrealname9124 Totally agree. The vid focused on Hollywood, but tons of smaller gay films exist that are fantastic. The best gay stories are smaller projects in my opinion. It allows for more authentic storytelling since the audience is smaller and studios less profit-driven than Hollywood.
I'm of the firm belief that queer stories need to be told by queer voices. Now that does not mean the actor needs to be queer, but there needs to be a STRONG (meaning someone with a good amount of creative influence) queer voice, or ideally voices, somewhere in the project whether it be writer, director, actor or producer. And those involved in the project that are not directly part of the queer community need to be vetted to the extent that we know they're both educated about and respectful of the queer community. When I look at the Thai BL industry, which appears to produce a larger amount of queer shows per capita than other parts of the world, 5+ years ago many of the gay for pay actors made disparaging comments about the gay community which had fans hugely offended and disappointed. Still, some ignorance still shows up in interviews now but the industry has shown a lot of growth and even a great diversification of gay characters they present since more gay men and trans women have taken over directing many of the series. Interestingly, it's an assumed straight BL actor now turned producer that expanded the dramas beyond BL to include female queer love stories as well as incorporating trans characters that are more than just background decorations, so yay for successful allies.
The truth is, you guys think actors have more say in our careers than we actually do. It doesn’t work like that. Regarding Nick, the directors in both Mary and George and RW&RB are both gay and even if casting directors choose a few actors to suggest, the final say is still the directors. If those directors chose Nick instead of a gay actor, then whose fault is it? The power is down to more than just gay actors going up for gay parts, it’s a bigger chain reaction that there must be gay creatives higher up vouching for them to pick gay actors so that it doesn’t matter who auditions, gay or straight, they would only ultimately pick gay actors in the end.
I love Nicholas. I like every movie Ive seen him in. He only said he questioned his continually playing gay roles when he was doing press for a straight movie.
Personally, I don’t care. Actors are actors, they are playing a character. Just like how some gay actors play straight characters some straight actors play gay characters. Yes we should have more acting opportunities for people who represent the role but we also shouldn’t criticize actors for doing their job.
i gen don’t care if the actor is straight or not. their job is to convince me that they’re queer for a show, no more, no less. it’s the same for queer actors playing straight characters too (tho the conversation around that isn’t nearly as rancid imo)
Well, I have this rule: no double standards. If a straight actor cannot play a queer character, then a queer actor cannot play a straight character. Simple as that. If straight actors get criticised, the people like Jonathan Bailey (who plays Viscount Anthony in "Bridgerton") should also be criticised. Don't get me wrong, in general I don't care at all about the actor's sexuality, I only care if they are doing a great job (and Jonathan Bailey is doing a great job), yet when I see hypocrisy and double standards, I point them out.
Thank you for discussing this with so much nuance. I'm actually not up on current media, so didn't recognize any of the names, but as you say this has been discussed for years. I guess I'm okay with straight actors playing gay characters as long as they are also community allies off camera and as long as gay actors can get straight roles. As you say, having gay personnel off camera helps as well.
It’s not really a fair comparison though. Often straight actors have that opportunity to play the antithesis of what they’ve been given to the point where it’s known as ‘playing against type.’ Sexuality isn’t an attitude you can put on or take off but it’s treated like one in a way straight characters don’t have to deal with. Take the sassy gay archetype for example, once you’re placed in that role are you given the opportunity to be someone else? And why is sassy even attached to your sexuality in the first place? These are the questions the video confronts.
@@LizzieHunterPaul It’s completely fair. Or would you prefer to live in a world where everything on screen is just a camera pointed at reality? No. You wouldn’t.
@@LizzieHunterPaulbut if you are an actor, you can play anything,thepoint of acting is play something that you aren't . Be queer simply means that you love someone with the same sex as you,human love is all the same.
I’m so glad you talked about the kit Conner situation as I am a massive fan of heartstopper and I was so upset to hear that some of I don’t even wanna say fans but toxic fans made him come out when he wasn’t ready I was like did you not watch the show? That was a massive part of the show was coming out when you’re ready. I was just glad to have good bisexual representation whether he was actually queer or not as like you said if not the actor at least the writers or people behind the camera sorry for the rant but it’s something I’ve felt strongly about since I heard about it and felt this to be a good video to voice it in the comments
Any good thespian can play anything. Thats the beauty of the art. I think the part about queer people telling their stories come from the position of the directors, producers, script writers, show runners and casters who decide who will portray a particular character best. I do think mostly people who have lived or been immersed or exposed enough to the queer experience would do a good job beyond limited perspective. Pose is a valid example of a group of people in that experience projecting that experience better than anyone outside of the Ball & House scene. And while I recognise the need for representation, I think some of this energy comes from frustration and trauma of wanting other LGBT people to present themselves in a way they dont want, or the resentment to “gay for pay”, which I don’t think is fair to project to actors. Take that up with the trade on grindr or the high paid escort or the solo content gay baiter on Only Fans.
Im all for more queer characters being written, but that doesn’t mean the actor has to be queer. There are plenty of straight actors who play gay roles and Jonathan Bailey is a prime example of that.
That's like saying straight roles should only be played by straight actors/actress ..ACTING IS ACTING. you're personal life should have no effect on it
That's why it's called acting. If I was an actor, I wouldn't want to be pigeonholed into gay characters. And I bet wwith trans actors and actresses it's the same thing... I bet they'd like to extend their catalog of work to include not just trans characters.
Some actors who have played queer characters that I feel have done great job at it despite the writing which at times really bad Zendaya. Shay Mitchell. Sasha Pieterse. Vanessa Morgan. Madelaine Petsch. I feel like they were believable despite the writing & respectful towards the lgbtq+ community Feel free to disagree but please respectful we don’t to mean & rude
Really appreciate this video and your insight! I'm confused about the way you talk about feminine vs. masculine representation. You're talking in general terms about feminine queer people, but it feels like you're talking primarily about gay men and the fact that being masculine affords them more roles. Because there is noooo way a masculine queer woman would be cast as a straight woman (or at least I would be shocked) - and sapphic representation overall leans more feminine. Was this meant to be more focused on queer men?
Typecasting and "being in a box" is something that happens to every actor. See Giancarlo Esposito for example, he is on the "bad guy box" everyone likes him playing villains. You can't expect actors who go out and about wearing make up, dresses, painting their nails, behaving extra feminine in public, not being taken serious or considered for a straight role, if the actor himself is selling his image as a feminine gay/queer. Gay actors who have a more "normie image" tend to get straight roles without problem.
I mean, it's illegal to ask someone's sexuality when hiring them, isn't it? Because what people are asking here is, should "out" gay actors play gay roles. Which I feel is damaging to everyone, queer performers especially. It seems more performative than helpful in any way. Another issue I have with this debate is, how specific are we talking? Is queer interchangeable? Or can Anna Paquin only play bisexual characters. But never a lesbian. What about Alan Cummings? No gay roles for him? Andrew Scott cannot play an asexual? Should Dan Levy not have played a pansexual character, as a gay man? And then the big issue, what about queer actors in non-queer roles? As I feel this is something that actually needs push. For queer actors to have as many opportunities as straight actors. To be considered for such roles. Because that is the other side of the coin. You scream gay actors for gay roles long enough and someone will pipe back eventually. That straight roles should only go to straight actors, then. If a queer actor only wants to play queer roles, more power to them. But if a queer actor wants to go for all the roles, then even more power to those. I think there should be queer creators involved in telling of queer stories. That is more important. And will have actual impact. Because reducing characters and actors to their sexuality helps absolutely no one. And is actually harmful. See Kit Connor or Becky Albertalli. People don't owe anyone their sexuality just so you can perch on your high horse of moral superiority. And if it is still too hard to understand, go watch Alex's speech form Red, White & Royal Blue again.
One of my favourite representations of a gay relationship was the Mickey/Ian story in US Shameless. Both those actors were straight, but they fully committed to the roles, it can definitely be done well. LGBTQ+ writers and directors are much more important in ensuring our voices are heard.
I don’t think a persons sexuality should affect whether or not they get hired for a job. I would throw a fit if they denied a gay actor from playing a straight role, and I like to keep that energy here.
Blain from Glee isn't gay in real life, but he could've fooled me. So just get whoever's best for the job it seems. It might help if the actor's gay, but at the end of the day, the job should go to whoever gives the best performance.
10:50 Ponyboi, I watched it during Sundance earlier this year. It's worth mentioning that it was an independent movie so it wasn't made by a big studio and as far as I know the only distributor that picked it up was showtime?
I don't care if they do, but I think they need to clarify it more than they do. I don't think forcing people out is good either, but it feels like some actors are just using it to get more notoriety.
I think the biggest evidence that we shouldn’t care so much is what happened with Kit Connor. People harassed him for being a “straight” person playing a queer and he had to come out before he wanted to.
I’d love for queer roles to go to queer actors too, but at the same time, that’s it. I won’t be upset about a straight person playing a queer role partly because we can never know for sure
i agree!!
same tbh
Completely agree
Honestly this is what I came here for. It was so messed up.
I think for me as well as long as you play it well I have no issue. One of my fave gay couples in teen shows is Kurt and Blaine from Glee. The actor for Blaine (Darren Criss) is straight and he is such an amazing actor and had me so invested in their love story. Like when he was crying over Kurt I was crying too 😭😭😭
I think ACTors dont have to be gay to play gay characters but i do think gay stories should be told by gay people.
Lol y ? Straight women have done a good job in telling male queer stories though. Infact ive enjoyed more gay stories written by woman .
@@imetwurld-ey9sx because a straight woman will never understand a gay experience the same way a man will never understand a female experience
@@imetwurld-ey9sxstories about gay men written by women tend to be made for an audience of women. You can kind of tell based on the tropes that are used. A lanky femme bottom, a beefy masculine top, the gay best friend, the gay couple with the perfect relationship, the promiscuous chaotic gay, a gay character's journey with their identity being the entire plot, etc. That's not to say that cisgender straight women CAN'T write stories about gay men, it's that it's easier to write with nuance when the creator is closer in proximity to the subject of identity.
@@sumlembut look at how even when stories are written by gay men AKA Roberto Aguirre Sacasa...the characters are terrible and homophobic. For example, Riverdale with Cheryl who is homophobic and gay and inconsistent, Kevin Keller who's only personality trait is being gay. So I disagree with your statement. If any writer wants to write about queer characters they should consult with queer voices or be active in the communities and do their research adequately. That is part of being a writer; learning and writing about things outside of your comfort box. In this case, subjects you don't know.
How exhausting. With takes like that, we wouldn't have such unique gay stories and characters from authors like Neil Gaiman or Anne Rice
there's a lot of nuance to this. queer writers, directors, and producers should be there. i don't think there's anything wrong with straight people playing queer characters as long as the acting is well done. there is also another aspect to this where we're basically forcing people to come out just so it can be announced that hey! this queer person is playing a queer character! we don't know all these actors' sexualities and we aren't entitled to know.
that's how the Heartstopper actor was outed! it was unfair for him because he was put in an uncomfortable position where the whole world was watching him. imagine being outed in front of the whole world?
this is basically how I feel - if there’s a queer director then any unnecessary stereotypes can be avoided which allows for good representation without digging into the personal lives of the actors !!
And as long as straight usually white men aernt the only ones considered for the role.
This is the problem i had with brokeback and cmbyn
@@johnindigo5477 I understand what you're saying but at the same time they're not gonna put two blacks guys cuz no one will give a f about that. They won't put a mixed couple to since it would'nt be real cuz of the sigma and racist stereotype of black/asian people in that so called tolerant community.
@@sadie9205no Ryan Murphy makes sure he does all the stereotypes and he cast straight people for gay roles, but at the end of the day there is no such thing as a gay story, every one has a different story if you want to say, or experience, so even if you do have a gay person playing a gay role because 1. You or them are not telling their story or your story that will even relate to someone who is gay watching
*The problem **_isn't_** that a straight actor is playing a gay character. The real, actual problem is that there just aren't enough gay movies out there. The more gay characters there are, the more opportunities there will be for gay actors. We just need to tell Hollywood to make more.*
You di know that gay actors have played straight characters for years
@@AngelisaHassan I know that, my point still stands
@@AngelisaHassan not the same
@@AngelisaHassan Where they had to be closeted to get most of those roles historically. If sexuality in the business wasn't important, there would be no need for execs and agents to pressure gay actors to be closeted.
Or gay actors need to go and audition for the roles
I'm a (theater) actor and I have been in rooms where the director asked actors if they were gay when casting a queer role.
I think that is inappropriate. There are a lot of actors who keep their sexual identity to themselves, closeted or not. I don't think someone should have to out themselves in order to play a role they identify with.
Yeah but most likely they are always heterosexual though. Most big male actors in Hollywood identify or if they dont identify they most likely live an hetero life irl
@@kimnoir Unfortunately it's not. You can choose not to answer, but then you might not get a role because of that choice.
First show I directed was about queer women. I remember as a first time director feeling weird about casting straight girls. Obviously i wasn’t asking, but i knew some of the actors. The strongest actors were straight, but that was a humbling lesson for me because truly no one could have done those characters in the show i was doing better than those 2 girls. The production was such a success and at the end of the day as actors they are bringing general humanity to the characters. And me as a director (and queer) i was the one responsible to frame the story properly for the audience. Im of the strong belief for queer successful stories the actor’s sexualities are not important, is about directors and writers. Those who make and frame the stories. Also for context my anecdote is about theatre not film
Rebecca i just realized this was you lmaooo. (This is indeed vale ignore my CZcams acc i made it when i was 12 😭😭)
@@valentinafangirling 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭HI!
I don't really mind if straight actors play queer characters, or vice versa. As long as their acting is decent, then their real life sexual orientation shouldn't matter. Neil Patrick Harris played womaniser Barney Stinson for almost a decade, while being gay himself.
Yes, Neil Patrick Harris played a straight character, but the important detail is that he wasn't publicly out until How I Meet Your Mother had been on the air for several seasons. Since he came out and the show has ended, NPH has only played gay roles. This has also happened to Matt Bomer who played a ladies man type on White Collar and Jim Parsons who played an iconic nerd on The Big Bang Theory. No matter how famous or talented an actor is, once they come out their career is massively limited to the few available gay roles.
@colinneagle4495 yep and it really sucks. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to come out for fear of it limiting their chance at straight roles, so not demanding peoples' sexuality is the only way.
Celebrities owe their fame to the people who drool over them. NPH flunked his career when he came out and was known for playing straight characters. I think it’s fucked up. They sold a lie and when the lie was discovered they didn’t sell anymore. People don’t really care if you are one thing or the other but don’t sell lies. I don’t think it benefits anyone. You can’t hide that forever and at some point people will feel deceived and lied to. I understand there’s not many roles for non-straights but I don’t think hiding it and playing it "safe" works on the long run, NPH being a perfect example. Because when he came out after years, almost a decade of straight women drooling over him, straight women don’t want to see him playing a straight role anymore, we don’t want a fantasy with a gay man, it’s fucked up. Same goes for queer baiting and straight actors.
I kind of agree with you, but let's not pretend that a gay actor playing a straight character is the same as a straight actor playing a gay character.
@@20000dinono but the only way for them to get to that point is for more straights to play gay and vice versa.
The way they forced Kit Connor to come out as bisexual because the conversation was so toxic
Yess the people who forced him to come out obviously did not watch the show
This is why straight people shouldn’t be taking roles of queer people
really highlighted biphobia from all sides.
I've only started to hear about this controversy after what happened with him. I can't take the other side what happened was NOT ok. It is a movie it is a show. Actors are REAL people.
@@cheesecakelasagnaShawn Mendes has been harassed about his sexuality for years. Ever since he was a teen. Is that wrong too? Don’t be selective
11:08 I think a big reason why sapphic media has such a short lifespan is that their audience is ONLY sapphic women. Most men just want to see lesbians kiss and get hard, they don't care about the complex relationships WLW woman have. Unlike women, who are the main consumers of MLM media, THEY care about the characters and story, along with also enjoying the mlm relationship. It's sad that Sapphic stories are told much less than MLM stories, I enjoy MLM, but I want to see more WLW stories.
The other problem being wlw is far more common in animation. Giving the impression sapphic stories are less sexual, less adult, less complicated, or even more safe
Let's not act like the majority of female MLM consumers, don't focus on the physical aspect of it as well. The most popular shows are the ones where the actors are attractive, because straight women like to see handsome men kiss. It's equally as problematic as males sexualising sapphic relationships, women are no better in this situation.
@@milli3377 Oh, of course, women sexualize MLM relationships just as much as men do, if not more. There's a reason that the most popular ships in practically any fandom are two attractive men. (Usually with one being infantilized) It's digusting on both levels, I was just focusing on why sapphic media has such a shrt lifespan.
I'm happy for straight actors to play queer roles, but I do expect queer people to be overrepresented in the cast of queer productions, both in front of the camera and behind the camera. That said, the majority of queer male actors seem to be glass closeted or actively lying about their orientation still, so that's part of why I feel that we should extend grace to "straight" actors in queer roles.
They really are, and there's a lot of open secrets in the industry I think.
I think it’s fine causing acting is playing and character and. Bunch of gay actors play straight characters
Not the majority. I know several gay, high-profile actors. All but one of them are publicly out, and the one that’s not doesn’t do much to hide it, he just doesn’t discuss it in interviews.
@@user-zw9fr4bo2t Some have hinted at being gay, only to have to walk it back later.
i feel like it doesn’t just come down to the actor but the other creators of the role, like did a queer person write the character? direct the movie/show? write the screenplay? you can’t actually ask the actor if they’re gay or not before you hire them, but if there are out queer people who created that representation of queerness then at least you can assume it won’t be mocking or a caricature.
I’ll do 1 pushup for every like this comment gets
how u have 1 mil subs and you still like begging 😭😭
clap if you care
Shirtless or not?
Hey! Just wanted to let you know your comment sucks. Have a good one!
Nicholas is a gay so is the other blonde boy
The job of an actor is basically to pretend to be someone you’re not. I’m gay as gay can be, but I’m still waiting for Jessica Capshaw to come back to Grey’s Anatomy. She played her character so well that I didn’t even know she was straight and married to a man until I looked it up.
Ew wtf
@@Wrinkled_stars what’s ew?🤨
@@jaydi.333 what do you think💀
@@Wrinkled_stars you’re a weirdo like go worry about your own shit
Or Jonathan Bailey being gay yet playing the most straight characters. Like how do I reconcile Bridgerton I'm in love 😭😭
Idea: We shouldn't care about an actor's sexuality. They don't owe us info about their private life, no matter what the sexuality of their characters are.
Yes. Actors should be actors. The MINUTE you start saying that ONLY queer actors should play queer characters, the industry WILL USE THIS to STOP queer actors from playing STRAIGHT characters. The whole POINT is humans are playing characters.
Exactly. I cannot remember that Anthony Hopkins needed to proof that he killed a lot of people to play a serial killer. It's called acting, pretend to be a character you are not in "real life" 😀
Precisely. The people clamoring to have only queer actors portray queer characters seem to forget at least two unpleasant consequences. One, the logical conclusion is that only straight actors will be allowed to play straight characters, only bisexual actors are permitted to play bisexual characters, etc. Second, it would mean requiring actors to reveal their sexuality when auditioning for roles. Is that really what we want? I think not.
No one wants only queer actors. We want more roles to OPENLY GAY ACTORS.
@@Itz.masonfox Then why is the question "Should straight actors play gay characters?" instead of "How do you get hollywood to cast more openly queer actors" ? The acts show a different objective than your words
@@michaelmedlinger6399 Bravo well said.
I don’t mind if straight actors play gay characters BUT often the reverse is not true - where gay actors get away with playing straight characters on the regular. Thats starting to change a little bit, but often being an out gay actors means the industry puts you in a box, while straight actors get to play whatever and get awarded for it.
I think that's an American issue more so. In Britain you have Andrew Scott, Ian McKellan, Jonathan Bailey, Ben Wishaw, all play straight roles. But I feel it's harder for US actors.
@@ericamacs3875 It's also an international issue. If you are Disney, and you know a gay lead will get boycotted in India or China, would you hire them? This is a big part of why so many American actors are closeted because theres more reliance on international markets for blockbusters
@@ericamacs3875all masculine men who aren't "obvious" ..... soooo of course they're gonna pass. The obsession with the binary is so sad
@@MadameCorgi Yes exactly that, but it's Disney being appalling giving in to bigotry. It is definitely what happens.
Literally this. People are not taking into account the discrimination in Hollywood
Personally it depends, it's nice to see representation of queer folks in media played by openly queer people, as long as they're openly queer. But sometimes those queer roles can go to straight actors (or vice versa) because that actor might have nailed the character because sexuality isn't your personality, it's just a normal part of who you are- you can't tell if someone is queer by the way they look or act btw. For me we NEED QUEER WRITERS AND CREAVTIVES to write these characters authentically or it doesn't feel like we're stereotyped. That way straight actors can portray their roles correctly and be better allies (we can't have another queer outing, like what happened to Kit Connor, again.
While I agree with you on the need for more queer writers and creatives, I don't agree on non-queer writers not being able to write these stories. I'm not saying you're saying that. Just wanted to add that here. I think that any writer can write about any subject but to do so without having experienced it, they have to do research, great research. Because like actors like Kit Connor who was outed, the author of Love, Simon was also outed due to the whole controversy of a non-queer writer writing queer stories.
I also think we should consider the fact that some actors just don’t want to come out publically. It took years for Elliot Page come out. I will always think about the amount of people in the public eye that are hiding a queer identity.
Also, as a pretty long time doctor who fan, the doctor has been quite openly queer for a while, but I think bc it started with David Tennent who is seen as straight publically, it was more accepted. And with further seasons, the writing was so bad that the queerness of it was was somewhat overshadowed by that. But with Nchuti, he is blck and openly queer and people really don’t like that… especially in England.
Not just Elliot Page. Quite a few out actors took years. Ian McKellan was in his 40s. Ben Wishaw took quite a long time as well. Luke Evans. There was an actor recently who came out, and I've now forgotten who it was because it was someone from a show I didn't watch, but apparently he had been fake dating an actress for 10 years or so.
Also Sarah Paulson, Gillian Anderson. I'm sure there are others..
It's a perennial issue.
@@ericamacs3875 thank you for adding more bc tbh I could literally only think of Elliot page in that moment 😭💜
I would love when they have bisexual representation it was complex and nuanced... because it's always used for the gay characters to step on rheir journey so it makes us look "fake" in a way, or we are cheaters, or we are gay baiting and it causes so much pain and strife ❤
And I'd really love if there was another way to convey a character was bi other than the being hypersexual and having many one night stands with both sex.
@@oyindamolaoluwadiya180 EXACTLY!! i am bisexual and the way i convey myself is so different that I question if I was a true bisexual cause I am not a cheater, a hypersexual person or other bi stereotypes that's shown to be the "bisexual" character mold for media
They're doing better with the bi rep. Nick in Heartstopper and Alex in RWRB are both repping bi, and the journeys are theirs. We still, however, have an issue with Bi men in relationships with women from what I've seen. There's still the stigma of "why not just make him straight, then?" in Hollywood. Whereas, with bi characters in relationships with men, Hollywood views them as interchangeable with gay characters, and their stories are identical. So, far, Nick in Heartstopper is the only male Bi I've seen with a journey that's distinctly Bi. We see him figuring it out while still in a monogamous relationship, and has to learn that everyone just assumes he's gay when they learn he has a boyfriend.
@@oyindamolaoluwadiya180exactly it's always "hey, this dude sleeps around with girls, BUT ALSO WITH BOYS OCCASIONALLY. HOW GROUNDBREAKING." It's just lazy and pushes into the stereotype that bisexual are just hypersexual assholes
Idk if you've watched 9-1-1 but one of the main characters just figured out he's bisexual in the latest season and it's a character who fans have long thought to be bisexual, and was done in a respectful way. It was a short season with a lot going on, but a lot of bi people have said they feel very good about the way it's been written so far... 🙃
10:18 I feel like this is also a representation of how misogyny does not only affect "women", but also feminine presenting queer people. Every feminine presenting queer role being deemed as unserious can be compared to how cishet women have been presented in the past. I genuinely hope that these characters get the character arcs that don't necessarily revolve around them being ditsy and whatever. With queer representation being more common, I honestly hope and pray things get better and we get more complex stories 😭
I personally think directors and the casting directors should vouch for queer actors to play queer characters. This goes to show that straight people have way more privilege than queer people because straight people are seen are being more marketable. I also feel like straight actors in some cases seem like caricatures of the queer character they are portraying because people tend to think queer people are monolithic (they’re not).
well said!
@@imuRgencythat is a matter of writing not performance. And, in that case, should people like Jonathan Bailey lose his job because he is gay playing a straight person. It is called acting - the role should be open to anybody who can convincingly deliver the script and the emotions behind them. I say this to remind you, the pendelum swings both ways.
What if this expectation forces actors to come out before they were ready? Due to audiences badgering them for being “straight” while playing a gay role. I’ve heard that has happened with some actors recently. The actor was comfortable playing the gay role while still being publicly “straight” irl, but audience reactions forced them to come out irl before the actor chose themselves to come out.
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2sri think they should consider “out” queer people first. and then if they do hire a “cis/het” person, people should respect that that person was the best option and move along. protecting irl queer people is what is most important, and why this conversation is even being had to begin with.
@@FullmoonPhantom-dn2srimo closeted people who put themselves in that situation are just as silly as the people questioning them lol.
Actually Nicholas Galitzine's breakout roles is from few years ago for the Amazon's Cinderella and Netflix's Purple Heart, he gotten more recognition last year for Red, White & Royal Blue and this year after the release of The Idea of You movie with Anne Hathaway.
For your question, I don't think that actors personal business is ours to know, as long as they can bring the character to screen and the acting is decent, it is enough.
What i don't like however is when the actors was questioned the same question over and over after they already clarified. For example, Nicholas was asked this same question many times or he was quoted in interview many times before he was given other question. I dont think other actors in same situation was given same treatment .
Matthew Lopez (a gay man, rwrb director) and Oliver Hermanus (a gay man, Mary & George director) mentions in interviews that they interviewed a lot of other actors before casting Nicholas so it is not really that he was a go-to actors for the projects.
Another hot topic is that i think the MLM fandoms is really toxic, the ship culture is sometimes out of bound...the fans sometimes cannot differentiate between the actors and the fictional characters that they played...Nicholas also faced these kind of issues whether he know it or not (i think he did know about it since they tagged him in ig) the fans shipped him with his costar and accused him of wanting to slept with the actor in real life which is disgusting and super gross, i guess Nicholas acting must be super realistic for them to accuse him like that.
💀💀💀🤮🤮🤮
I also would like to throw this into the discussion and id like to see you cover this in a video is the fact that even when they do have queer actors playing queer characters, they never branch out & always use the same actors and always is mainly for white gays so there is also that factor i think is also an important because even when you have a straight actor pkaying a queer role, its always a white woman or man
8:01 kept watching and yes!
I agree with everything that you said Rumi, but I want to add that playing a queer role could also provide an opportunity for straight actors to empathize with an experience they never had and extending that empathy by raising awareness with their platform. However, that should be done by highlighting the queer experience, and thus highlighting queer people who have actually lived that experience.
I Don’t like the idea of taking work away from a gay person just so a hetero can learn empathy
I think it's more about queer actors having the same opportunity to audition to same roles of straight people
I will say that i prefer queer actors playing queer characters, but if they do happen to have a straight actor i would need them to actually read and listen to queer literature, queer experiences and have a queer person for consultation ❤
Which most of the straight actors playing gay roles tend to do (most*). Good actors research their roles heavily in order to give the best performance they can. That's why I'm rarely hard on straight actors in gay roles, since, for the most part, they're trying to do the role proud.
i tend to prefer when queer characters are played by queer actors. but i'm okay with straight actors playing queer characters. my favourite queer character is played by (at least to my knowledge) a straight actor. like you said, if the actor isn't queer there NEEDS to be queer people somewhere in the production team. this would avoid more unnecessarily traumatic queer stories e.g. the bury your gays trope.
I personally think that straight actors and Actresses can play gay characters just like how gay people can play straight characters 🤷🏽♂️
That’s the problem tho. Y’all are not understanding. A straight person is going to get a gay role faster than an OPENLY gay, dare me say fem, gets a straight role. That’s the conversation. Not the sexualities.
tbh in my opinion as long as the actor is respectful and understand the impact of what they are doing is okay, there is no problem, and especially in such a heteronormative society where we have to label everything and everyone but i do understand the lack of actual queer actors that should be able to get these roles and be represented
I have a question, in an ideal world where people don’t care about someone’s sexuality like how we assume people are straight, would that mean only straight actors play straight roles and queer actors only play queer roles?
I'm just tired of the same straight actors playing the gay roles it even make me hate them and i'm not only talking about Nicholas Galitzine.
@@nknk4927You’re real as fuck for this actually. This is the biggest reason why this convo is happening- straight privilege is REAL and it’s reflected in casting even of gay characters
i say it doesn’t really matter since i mean its acting as long as they act as the character correctly i see no problem but it would be better for them to cast queer actors.
Right? Why should everyone else’s sexuality be our business? It seems crazy that an actor would have to divulge personal information about themselves to get a job.
@@froggypapi6687I agree but it’s very hypocritical bc OPENLY gay men don’t get jobs. But straight men can get them. This is all favored to toxic masculinity. Ofc sexuality doesn’t matter… when you’re not openly gay/fem.
I think that an actor’s sexuality is largely irrelevant to the sexuality of the character they play, as long as there is someone (be that a director, producer, writer etc) behind the scenes who is LGBTQIA+ so the story can be authentically told. This is mostly because I don’t think an actor should have to be out in order the play a queer role (thinking of the Kit Connor situation that happened with Heartstopper ‘fans’ in particular) because that’s their personal choice
Fem presenting women are represented far more than masc or androgynous women in queer roles (at least within romance related media). I get the arguments you are making and the impact misogyny has on fem presenting queer people. I just wanted to point out that within sapphic representation this dynamic is backwards, masc women are the more comedic or lighthearted side characters and are usually not in romance. Sapphic romance is often two feminine women, or maybe one is slightly more androgynous than the other.
That’s because femininity is expected in women, it does go outside the heteronormative gaze, while masculine women do, as do feminine men, but masculine men don’t
I just wanted to mention that actors taking roles they are comfortable with without specifying their sexuality should be normal. You can't only let queer people play queer roles because taking a role alone would be them admitting to being queer without specifying, which would led to people's unneeded speculations. I would personally be against it just for the lack of queer content and representation we would see in media from this standard. Also, a straight man playing a queer role because they are comfortable with it combats this awful misogynistic wave we are seeing now.
No, because the editing is giving future dystopian vibes. Like… Rumi said we’re in 2095 with the editing 🌎🌙 🪄🔮
hehehehe we in 3005 babyyyyy
i might not be able to have an opinion on this and I get that, but to me straight actors should be able to play lgbt characters and lgbt actors should be able to play straight characters. as long as they can accurately portray the role, who cares. i feel like a lot of the discourse around this is really reductive because we all remember what happened to Kit Connor. He was bi, but just not ready to come out, but did because he was getting so much hate for being "straight" and felt like he had something to prove. i feel like the only gray area would be trans characters
Give me the name of 5 OPENLY gay actors who played straight character i'll wait.
@@nknk4927 I’ll give you more than 5, lmao:
Men: Matt Bomer, Jonathon Bailey, Wentworth Miller, Cheyenne Jackson, Neil Patrick Harris, Colton Haynes, Brandon Flynn, Jonathon Bennett, Luke Evans, Andrew Scott
Women: Sarah Paulson, Jane Lynch, Janelle Monae, Kristen Stewart, Jodie Foster
We can have the conversation that the switch is not equal for straight and gay actors, but don’t act like there aren’t any gay actors who are the switch even AFTER coming out publicly, please be real
@samcarmen Lord please! I SAID ONPENLY GAY BEFORE acting! And you just throw a bunch of the people that came out AFTER their role. And I don't count 2 of them in that list since they are very recent. And I was talking about GAY MAN not WOMAN cuz we know who is more rejected in HOLLYWOOD
@@samcarmen My point is once they know that those people are gay they don't wanna give them the opportunity so they have to HIDE themselves BEFORE getting the roles. The double standard is there. If a straight actor get to play a gay role without consequences the same should apply to gay men aswell
@@nknk4927 1) you never said “before”. You might’ve been thinking it, but that’s not what you said and 2) I literally supplied you with queer actors who’ve played straight roles AFTER they came out
In case you didn’t know…
Matt Bomer - came out 2012 - Magic Mike Trilogy (2012-2023), The Last Tycoon (2016)
Jonathan Bailey - public coming out unclear but he came out to his family and friend at early 20s, so… - Bridgerton (2020), Wicked (2024)
Wentworth Miller - came out 2013 - stated he’s not interested in playing straight characters anymore
Cheyenne Jackson - came out 2005 - Descendant 3 (2019) and so much more films truly
Neil Patrick Harris - came out 2006 - The Smurfs (2011, 2013), A Series of Unfortunate Events (2017)
Colton Haynes - came out 2016 - Swindler Seduction (2022)
Brandon Flynn - came out 2017 - Looks That Kill (2020)
Luke Evans - came out 2002? - Dracula Untold (2014), Beauty and the Beast (2017), etc
Jonathan Bennett - came out 2017 - Christmas Made to Order (2018)
Andrew Scott - came out 2013 - Fleabag (2016), 1917 (2019), etc
They are actors. That's it ! While it's nice to see that ppl who are gay play a gay character but as long it's a good story and played well. Why does it matter? Without social media we would never know these actors sexual orientation also in reality we still don't know them either
Exactly
It matters because some are just homophobic/don't care about what the comunity going through. like you said for them it just an act. And if i'm going by your logic that means a cis woman can play a trans woman role and a black guy can play a white character but see a lot of people seems to have problems with that. You just have to see what is happening online now when a black person get a major role every one cry WOKE WOKE WOKE....
@@nknk4927 once again how would u know a person acting a character is homophobic/ not an ally without social media. Back then all we saw was actors and actresses acting like Hillary swank in boys don't cry and Wayan Bros have played white ppl before so it can be done I'm not online cause of the cancel culture cause of this. Black ppl back then had great shows without it being woke or whatever. Any actor that makes u feel the character emotions should be rewarded regardless of what their sexual orientation is or what they belief in. That's none of our business at the end of the day.
@nknk4927 I've seen a few of your comments and you aren't exactly grasping this concept.
1. It's okay if the actor/actress doesn't want to say their sexuality because it could get them less roles in the industry, OR if that labeled straight person is forced to come out as queer after playing a queer role, they get shoved into a box and play only stereotypes and eventually are only used for their queerness.
2. As og said, if it weren't SM or news outlets, then we would have 0 clue of what their sexuality is.
3.Take Rob who plays Mac on its always sunny. Mac is a up and down catholic with extreme internalized homophobia but eventually comes out as gay, he does a good job. And that's because Mac being gay isn't the ONLY trait he is as a character. Him being gay isn't what makes up his character therefore I often forget he's played by a straight man. [+ Robs brother is gay which I think is cool]
The actual actors getting the jobs doesn’t matter what their sexuality is. That isn’t the topic and shouldn’t be. The topic is the fact OPENLY gay/fem actors don’t get jobs. Sexuality only doesn’t matter if you’re straight or not openly gay. So yes it does matter. Not in the sense of someone’s personal life tho.
LOVE GUESS THAT GAY
I agree with the guy who played Sam in Dynasty (sorry, forgot his name) in that NO your sexuality shouldn’t be e typecasted BUT queer people should be able to tell their own stories. It honestly wouldn’t be such a big deal if only there were more queer actors or just queer people in the industry in general.
As long as they do a good acting job I really don't care personally.
If a straight actor and LGBTQ actor audition for the LGBTQ role and the straight actor gave the more compelling performance, I would feel no shame in hiring the actor who delivered the best performance, period.
This reminds of the discourse when Black British actors were accused of “stealing roles” from Black American actors because they never lived a Black American experience and it was subtly hinted that should be cognisant and maybe even step aside. Acting is extremely competitive. I understand the hesitancy, but I don’t expect any actor to fall on their sword and give up a golden opportunity in a dog eat dog industry. May the best actor win the role. 🏆
But tbh i'm a queer and trans person but I'm so down to play straight and cis roless. I think we just need more queer and trans actors no matter what role they're playing.
“true” queer representation that comes at the expense of an actor’s mental or emotional wellbeing is not true representation to me. forcing someone out of the closet (in kit’s case) is not worth it to me.
The fans didn't understand the story well,It's basically one of the first lessons the coach said to the boys on the story,but people don't see what they don't want to see.
I agree… but also not giving that representation roles and jobs isn’t representative at all either. Always giving roles to straight actors is not the same as an openly fem gay actor trying to get any basic ass fucking acting job. It’s not the same and they’re not treated the same. No sexuality only gives straight people/acting the advantage. No one needs to disclose their identity. Nor give us personal information. But gay actors deserves the same opportunities. You know they barely get straight roles.. so the fact they can’t even get gay roles shows gay people will never win unless we have more representation OF OPENLY GAY people.
I kinda love that a lot of ppl are seeing nuances in this topic, bc although I understand it, I feel like the whole “it’s just acting” argument feels a lil empty
the last time i remember a gay feminine lead was with generation & the lead was black???? broke barriers!! i wish that show wasn’t canceled 😭
What’s the name of the show?
@@nkt.11generation
@@nkt.11 the show was called “generation” on hbo max/max
@@nkt.11genera+ion
also first bite on neflix, which was also cancelled
I think to have authentic queer stories, there need to be queer writers in the room....
I'm torn about this topic... especially because you could turn it around and say, no straight roles for queer people for lack of lived experience. : ) and those queer actors would have a hard time making a living...
I totally get not wanting to applaud straight people for taking on queer roles and normalizing such, when queer actors have trouble booking non-queer roles. BUT, I do think the context that Brokeback Mountain was released in 2005 when calling things 'gay' and slinging gay slurs was even more common than today, I think it was significant that actors like Gyllenhaal did work to destigmatize queer roles in general. Ya, they can't speak of the queer experience themselves, but they also did attempt to work towards progress that queer roles in film and television shouldn't be so destructive to anyone's career. Actresses like Laura Dern was essentially shunned from Hollywood after playing Ellen Degeneres' love interest back in the late 90s. Back then, straight people taking on queer roles was risky compared to today.
It ain’t 2005 anymore honey
As someone who is planning on being an actor(and as someone who is queer), once I graduated college next year, I don’t think that sexuality is a faction of identity that needs to be played by someone who belongs to that identity. Race and gender identity I feel like those two things do need to be played by someone who actually belongs to those communities but things such as sexuality and religion I don’t think you need to belong to those communities to play those characters. But the people telling the story behind the scenes (mainly the writers) should always be apart of those communities so that they can properly tell those stories without it being a guessing game
I watched Interview with the Vampire and you couldn't tell me that Jacob Anderson wasn't queer. He identifies as straight but was open to fully embracing the role and didn't want to play into stereotypes. I'm fine with it as long as the actor puts some respect on the role.
I've seen gay roles played by straight people that I thought were good. For me, it's the writing.
And I think it is a serious issue if the only public representation for gay people (and broader for queer people) are unrealistic to the point of fetishization. Seriously, we have situations where gay men using their natural voices are referred to as "ugly stereotypes" - looking at some of the commentary on Dan Levy playing David Rose or Chris Colfer playing Kurt.
The criticism of have of "Love Simon" still holds even though the writer was a closeted bisexual woman. It still centers straight people and heteronormativity. From the declaration at the beginning that "I'm just like you. For the most part my life is totally normal." ie. Gayness is the part that is abnormal. Through his sole personality, motivations, and life goals being that he's gay. To accepting his friends abandoning him when he came out - without calling out their homophobia. To the end where there's nothing left of his story once he's come out and got a boyfriend.
That compares to Heartstopper where coming out and getting a boyfriend doesn't solve the rest of the characters' problems.
The writer of Love Simon was like “why does everyone think I’m straight?” Like honey, it’s because you write gay stories like a straight person 😭
@@yeetyeet1655 I liked Love Simon because neither person in the couple died in the end. Thats how low the bar was.
@@michaeladkins6 It was the first gay male love story I saw as a kid and that was extremely big for me. Unfortunately, it was that one
Okay but just want to point out that Paul Mescal has never referred to himself as straight publicly, as far as I can tell, and when asked about straight actors playing gay on the red carpet he responded 'Assumptions are dangerous, and that's all I'll say on that,' before Andrew Scott jumped in to answer the question. Andrew Scott later said in another interview that we need to stop presuming everyone is straight until proven otherwise. Now i don't know Paul Mescal's sexual orientation, as he said assumptions are dangerous, so I will not assume anything either way but I think both him and Andrew make very valid points and those points are even more important I feel after what happened to Kit Connor.
I think we need to be a bit more careful about making presumptions about actors sexualities and consider the consequences of doing so before the same thing happens again.
Also she's not an actor but Billie Eilish has talked about how everyone had decided she was queer before she knew herself and how it feels to have everyone think they know who you are and the pressure that put in her to publicly come out when she did realise she liked girls when what she really wanted to do is just exist. The way we view public figures sexualities as information we are entitled to is really fucked honestly
There’s a massive difference between the social privilege of an out gay person vs a closeted gay person, and it’s reflected in Hollywood casting. I’m okay with putting pressure on straight actors in general to give up work to gay actors, but targeting and questioning specific actors is morally reprehensible
Well people assume Paul Mescal is straight because he openly dates women. People didn't pull that out of thin air.
@@TayloredTalk He's had one public relationship so you can't really say he 'only dates women'.
@@Harri_James Yes you can, because one public relationship is all it takes for the public to assume your sexuality.
@@TayloredTalk You do know bisexuals and pansexuals exist? As well as people who choose not to label themselves or who only label themselves as queer? And also some people can think they're one sexuality and realise later they're in fact another?
The answer is so fucking simple and it’s not complex AT ALL!!!!!!! Yes. Yes they should.
The best actor (no matter their sexuality) should get the role. Period. The end.
Agreed
Ideally thats how Hollywood would work, but it's simply not how it does. If you dont want to make it complex you dont have to, but you'd be ignoring the real life complexities.
When people say ‘only gay actors should play gay roles,’ they may not realise but what they’re actually saying is ‘if an actor is playing a queer role they HAVE to come out as gay.’
My opinion isn't that straight actors shouldn't play queer roles, it's that they shouldn't play thr important ones. For example, lets say it's a random tv drama with some side characters who are queer (for example Kevin/Cheryl from Riverdale)......idc about a straight person playing those roles.......but when we are doing movies/Series about real life people or a story where the MAIN character is queer.......i want to see someone who has some irl experience and is open about it taking that part.
I try not to judge "straight" people for taking these queer roles because we don't know them and what goes on behind closed doors........but we have to many openly queer people trying to make it out here who aren't being given the opportunity to show what they can do.
Edit: and reflecting on this comment more of the blame should go to producers/casting directors because at the end of the day......All of these actors are just trying to make a name for themselves. It's responsibility of the people in charge of these decisions who claim they want queer people to be represented then continue to only cast people who publicly identify as straight.
my problem with people hating on actors that haven't said they're queer is that people ASSUME they're straight. A great example is Kit Connor. This just perpetuates the idea that everyone is hetero unless stated otherwise. STOP THIS.
People assume I’m straight, because I don’t outwardly tell them otherwise. It’s personal and not anyone’s business. I’m not hiding my bisexuality, just don’t feel the need to broadcast it. It’s between me and a partner and nobody else.
So maybe all these actors you listed are straight, maybe they’re bi, pan, whatever. Maybe they’re outward about it, most people just keep it private though. You don’t know if any of them are actually straight.
Before I dive into the video. Just posing a quick question. You asked a question does straight actors playing queer characters take away from queer people telling their stories? Well my question is isn’t that the writer or director who is telling or writing said story??
The actor is acting. Granted I would like the role to go to a queer man who could relate more to the character but if miss mama is eating her role down that’s what it is! Similar to Annabeth with the Percy Jackson tv reboot they had a fit she was black. But the casting agent or direction and Rick himself said she embodied Annabeth to the T no matter the skin color. I’m going to continue the video just had this thought before I finished the video.
yall need to read a book and touch grass. this isnt a nuanced conversation at all. as a filmmaker myself and someone who has gone to film school and has wrote many scripts and casted a lot of short films its who ever fits the roll the best and who ever acts the best. jollywood isnt such a liberal place as we think it is. Hollywood cosplays as a liberal utopia but in the reality of things is very conservative. if yall actually use your critical thinking skills that it seems like you dont have you would knoe if a actor who isn’t (ie kit connor) it’s extremely dangerous for them to play these characters because they are forced to come out or stay in the closet in order to still have a career (ie hugh jackman). what do the teacher teach you in school like this isnt a hard concept
I appreciate hearing from people actually involved in the business, what you say reflects what Matthew Lopez said about casting for RWRB. 1) you can't ask actors their sexuality and 2) it's acting and it's their job so you cast who embodies the role best.
When it comes down to it, limiting queer roles to queer actors harms those who don't want to come out, and would also limit the pool of actors available to play queer roles. There are downsides either way for queer actors due to homophobia, but one option is definitely better than the alternative.
I think peoples sexuality is their business. If they nailed the audition, then they should have the role.
Random anecdote:
I was in Hollywood for a bit, booked some gigs, worked with some people but saying all that to say, 90% of my auditions were gay roles and it was probably more than 90%. And over half of those roles it was the only black character. I honestly feel like those bubbled writers and mono-cultural writer rooms don’t know what to do with black actors. It doesn’t matter if it was a role for a personal trainer with body-image issues who misses his best friend, or a strait-laced lawyer who always wins the case, they were gay. And I’m not saying this as a “they’re making all the roles gay” just more like I don’t think it’s real representation they’re just trying to throw us in there and check boxes.
All that to say: We need more Black creators with different intersections in those fields and more importantly, we gotta make our own content and watch that.
about femme queer roles that aren't a comedic relief, the one that i thought of immediately was chester from genera+ion, it's an ensemble cast, but he is an important main character, and he is allowed complexity while being a femme character. but even in that example, it's a femme role, but justice smith is not one of the people viewed as femme, so that's a thing. i think we do need more shows like generation though bc it was literally a show all about queer people, so you can allow yourself multiple kinds of complex characters. its the same thing as with every rep, don't have just one
The problem is we're not at a place in society (yet) where femme queer storylines bring in money for box offices. Right now, they're really niche and hard to come by, and only queer audiences will watch them.
Segregating parts only for ppl who match the character seems like a never ending battle, each group could argue the same lines, resulting in nerfed projects imo. The writing and storytelling should be improved regardless
I think actors should be able to act. Straights should be able to play gays, and vice versa. Being able to believably become a different person is a very important part of being a good actor. I can't believe this is even a topic of discussion. If you can't transform yourself into a person who is very different from yourself, you're probably a pretty meh actor.
It’s a toss up between a Nicholas Galitzine situation, a Kit Connor situation, or a James Corden situation lol.
Obviously we love allies but we should also look at how studios constantly casts straight people for queer roles. It’d be ideal to share the space but we need to be given the room to start.
I can't say about anything else since I'm only in RWRB fandom so I've looked at a lot about the movie and book, but at least in that case the director/writer is gay and was fully involved with casting. And it's clear that the presentation and handling of queerness was of the utmost importance to him, but he was open about how he was strictly casting to find the perfect actors otherwise he wouldn't want to make it. He also mentioned you can't legally ask actors their sexuality which is totally fair.
It's just unfortunate that due to homophobia that (openly) queer actors just don't get the same opportunities. Which then leads to queer actors wanting to not be out to not lessen their own opportunities. Hopefully this gets better over time.
In my personal opinion, acting is acting, and it doesn’t always have to be about sexuality. But the issue does have a lot of complication and layers so I totally understand why people would get upset when straight actors play gay characters
Gay/straight isn’t a lifestyle, it’s a sexual preference. Whoever is best for the part should get the part, regardless of sexuality. Saying only someone who is gay in real life can play a gay character, or only someone who is straight in real life can play a character, is like saying only someone who is attracted to redheads in real life can play a character who is specifically attracted to redheads in a movie. Acting is acting, and not everyone will want to reveal their sexual preference anyway.
I’ve experienced being type casted as the comic relief characters in live theater as well. In live theater, everything is a bit more dramatic. And tho I present as a cis woman, it’s still very obvious to many people that I am a feminine queer person. I only ever receive roles that are the awkward shy character or the comic relief characters, which frequently bars me from playing larger lead roles that can be taken more seriously. Many “female” roles on theater are love interests and they need to play up the mystery and sex appeal. I have never been afforded the chance to play a character like that if it wasn’t in the ensemble. Closest I got was plying Janet in Rocky Horror, however Rocky Horror is very camp and Janet is still played mostly as a ditzy comedic relief who doesn’t have a huge effect on the events of the story, they sort of just happen to her except for her taking charge for like one scene. All this to say, the stigma against feminine characters, specifically queer feminine characters and therefore queer feminine actors is too true and there needs to be more serious plot lines for them
I just could never believe people who said there wasn't enough queer talent. Like how could we simultaneously have the (in my experience very true) stereotype of queer people in theatre and somehow think there aren't enough queer actors. (yes I understand that stage and film acting are two different things but the people very frequently move between both) And I am by no means saying that every gay theatre kid is going to grow up to be at the caliber of a big hollwood star, but still, if a higher percentage of actors are queer than the general population, it likely cannot be extremely difficult to find queer talent.
Didn't Luke Evans (openly gay for his entire career) say that his sexuality doesn't have anything to do with his career - that his career is one thing, & his personal life another?
If a director wants a gay actor for a 'straight role' ('Dracula Untold', for instance), or vice versa- is that not a statement to the director's belief in the actors' skill, or the belief that the actor has what it takes to embody the character in question?
Is that not what should be encouraged? No one being pigeonholed over their private life or beliefs, against getting a role...?
First, this question is stupid. If you can act, then you can act. Gay people have been playing straight roles for years and straight have been playing gay ones if they have the talents and skill that what matters.
Why is this even a question? Being a straight actor playing a gay character shouldn’t have any kind of negative affect on a movie it’s all about the script not if the person is a gay person in real life. The issue is people treat it like it’s a black person playing a white person???🙄
i’m always on the side of ‘the best actor for the role should be the one in the job’ but we all know there are so many incredible gay actors who just aren’t getting those roles for whatever reason, meanwhile the same cookie cutter looking straight men are consistently getting those roles
"...for whatever reason" I think that we can guess the reason
Cough.... Nicholas Galitzine
Cough.. Paul Mescal
what bothers me the most is that we're in an age where we have SO many talented queer actors out there and yet we only see the same 3 straight men being casted in these roles like come oooooon i can't stand to see josh o'connor nicholas galitzine or paul mescal in a gay role again.
then consume non-American media. i find that limiting your media to solely one country isn't diverse enough. i mean, you could watch media from anywhere the world and see the diverse stories of queer people around the globe.
@@forgotrealname9124 Totally agree. The vid focused on Hollywood, but tons of smaller gay films exist that are fantastic. The best gay stories are smaller projects in my opinion. It allows for more authentic storytelling since the audience is smaller and studios less profit-driven than Hollywood.
THANK YOUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!! When i tell you im TIREEEEED. It even make me hate them
This comment is so real because Josh O'Conner and Paul Mescal actually have an upcoming film together where they will play lovers 😭
I'm of the firm belief that queer stories need to be told by queer voices. Now that does not mean the actor needs to be queer, but there needs to be a STRONG (meaning someone with a good amount of creative influence) queer voice, or ideally voices, somewhere in the project whether it be writer, director, actor or producer. And those involved in the project that are not directly part of the queer community need to be vetted to the extent that we know they're both educated about and respectful of the queer community.
When I look at the Thai BL industry, which appears to produce a larger amount of queer shows per capita than other parts of the world, 5+ years ago many of the gay for pay actors made disparaging comments about the gay community which had fans hugely offended and disappointed. Still, some ignorance still shows up in interviews now but the industry has shown a lot of growth and even a great diversification of gay characters they present since more gay men and trans women have taken over directing many of the series. Interestingly, it's an assumed straight BL actor now turned producer that expanded the dramas beyond BL to include female queer love stories as well as incorporating trans characters that are more than just background decorations, so yay for successful allies.
It really doesn't bother me if straight actors play gay parts, I honestly don't see any problem with it. It's just acting
The truth is, you guys think actors have more say in our careers than we actually do. It doesn’t work like that. Regarding Nick, the directors in both Mary and George and RW&RB are both gay and even if casting directors choose a few actors to suggest, the final say is still the directors. If those directors chose Nick instead of a gay actor, then whose fault is it? The power is down to more than just gay actors going up for gay parts, it’s a bigger chain reaction that there must be gay creatives higher up vouching for them to pick gay actors so that it doesn’t matter who auditions, gay or straight, they would only ultimately pick gay actors in the end.
I love Nicholas. I like every movie Ive seen him in. He only said he questioned his continually playing gay roles when he was doing press for a straight movie.
Personally, I don’t care. Actors are actors, they are playing a character. Just like how some gay actors play straight characters some straight actors play gay characters. Yes we should have more acting opportunities for people who represent the role but we also shouldn’t criticize actors for doing their job.
i gen don’t care if the actor is straight or not. their job is to convince me that they’re queer for a show, no more, no less. it’s the same for queer actors playing straight characters too (tho the conversation around that isn’t nearly as rancid imo)
Well, I have this rule: no double standards. If a straight actor cannot play a queer character, then a queer actor cannot play a straight character. Simple as that. If straight actors get criticised, the people like Jonathan Bailey (who plays Viscount Anthony in "Bridgerton") should also be criticised.
Don't get me wrong, in general I don't care at all about the actor's sexuality, I only care if they are doing a great job (and Jonathan Bailey is doing a great job), yet when I see hypocrisy and double standards, I point them out.
As long as the acting is good and the writing is interesting I don't care who does what
Thank you for discussing this with so much nuance. I'm actually not up on current media, so didn't recognize any of the names, but as you say this has been discussed for years. I guess I'm okay with straight actors playing gay characters as long as they are also community allies off camera and as long as gay actors can get straight roles. As you say, having gay personnel off camera helps as well.
Can a serious person play a goofy person? Can a single person play a parent? Can a gay person play a straight person?
End of story.
Agreed
It’s not really a fair comparison though. Often straight actors have that opportunity to play the antithesis of what they’ve been given to the point where it’s known as ‘playing against type.’ Sexuality isn’t an attitude you can put on or take off but it’s treated like one in a way straight characters don’t have to deal with. Take the sassy gay archetype for example, once you’re placed in that role are you given the opportunity to be someone else? And why is sassy even attached to your sexuality in the first place? These are the questions the video confronts.
@@LizzieHunterPaul It’s completely fair.
Or would you prefer to live in a world where everything on screen is just a camera pointed at reality? No. You wouldn’t.
@@LizzieHunterPaulbut if you are an actor, you can play anything,thepoint of acting is play something that you aren't .
Be queer simply means that you love someone with the same sex as you,human love is all the same.
@@dhsf5937Can a cis woman play a trans woman? Can a white man play a black man?
I’m so glad you talked about the kit Conner situation as I am a massive fan of heartstopper and I was so upset to hear that some of I don’t even wanna say fans but toxic fans made him come out when he wasn’t ready I was like did you not watch the show? That was a massive part of the show was coming out when you’re ready. I was just glad to have good bisexual representation whether he was actually queer or not as like you said if not the actor at least the writers or people behind the camera sorry for the rant but it’s something I’ve felt strongly about since I heard about it and felt this to be a good video to voice it in the comments
Doesn't really matter to me as long as they are good actors, done their research on lgbtq+ culture, how they act, and stuff
Any good thespian can play anything. Thats the beauty of the art. I think the part about queer people telling their stories come from the position of the directors, producers, script writers, show runners and casters who decide who will portray a particular character best. I do think mostly people who have lived or been immersed or exposed enough to the queer experience would do a good job beyond limited perspective. Pose is a valid example of a group of people in that experience projecting that experience better than anyone outside of the Ball & House scene. And while I recognise the need for representation, I think some of this energy comes from frustration and trauma of wanting other LGBT people to present themselves in a way they dont want, or the resentment to “gay for pay”, which I don’t think is fair to project to actors. Take that up with the trade on grindr or the high paid escort or the solo content gay baiter on Only Fans.
Im all for more queer characters being written, but that doesn’t mean the actor has to be queer. There are plenty of straight actors who play gay roles and Jonathan Bailey is a prime example of that.
That's like saying straight roles should only be played by straight actors/actress ..ACTING IS ACTING. you're personal life should have no effect on it
That's why it's called acting. If I was an actor, I wouldn't want to be pigeonholed into gay characters. And I bet wwith trans actors and actresses it's the same thing... I bet they'd like to extend their catalog of work to include not just trans characters.
Some actors who have played queer characters that I feel have done great job at it despite the writing which at times really bad
Zendaya. Shay Mitchell. Sasha Pieterse. Vanessa Morgan. Madelaine Petsch. I feel like they were believable despite the writing & respectful towards the lgbtq+ community
Feel free to disagree but please respectful we don’t to mean & rude
I agree with your examples, but I still think going forward Hollywood should try to do better.
Really appreciate this video and your insight! I'm confused about the way you talk about feminine vs. masculine representation. You're talking in general terms about feminine queer people, but it feels like you're talking primarily about gay men and the fact that being masculine affords them more roles. Because there is noooo way a masculine queer woman would be cast as a straight woman (or at least I would be shocked) - and sapphic representation overall leans more feminine. Was this meant to be more focused on queer men?
But aren’t there gay actors play straight people also though
Typecasting and "being in a box" is something that happens to every actor. See Giancarlo Esposito for example, he is on the "bad guy box" everyone likes him playing villains. You can't expect actors who go out and about wearing make up, dresses, painting their nails, behaving extra feminine in public, not being taken serious or considered for a straight role, if the actor himself is selling his image as a feminine gay/queer. Gay actors who have a more "normie image" tend to get straight roles without problem.
A lot of queer actors have played straight roles. As long as the acting is good, I don’t see the problem.
I mean, it's illegal to ask someone's sexuality when hiring them, isn't it? Because what people are asking here is, should "out" gay actors play gay roles. Which I feel is damaging to everyone, queer performers especially. It seems more performative than helpful in any way.
Another issue I have with this debate is, how specific are we talking? Is queer interchangeable? Or can Anna Paquin only play bisexual characters. But never a lesbian. What about Alan Cummings? No gay roles for him? Andrew Scott cannot play an asexual? Should Dan Levy not have played a pansexual character, as a gay man?
And then the big issue, what about queer actors in non-queer roles? As I feel this is something that actually needs push. For queer actors to have as many opportunities as straight actors. To be considered for such roles. Because that is the other side of the coin. You scream gay actors for gay roles long enough and someone will pipe back eventually. That straight roles should only go to straight actors, then.
If a queer actor only wants to play queer roles, more power to them. But if a queer actor wants to go for all the roles, then even more power to those.
I think there should be queer creators involved in telling of queer stories. That is more important. And will have actual impact. Because reducing characters and actors to their sexuality helps absolutely no one. And is actually harmful. See Kit Connor or Becky Albertalli.
People don't owe anyone their sexuality just so you can perch on your high horse of moral superiority. And if it is still too hard to understand, go watch Alex's speech form Red, White & Royal Blue again.
One of my favourite representations of a gay relationship was the Mickey/Ian story in US Shameless. Both those actors were straight, but they fully committed to the roles, it can definitely be done well.
LGBTQ+ writers and directors are much more important in ensuring our voices are heard.
It shouldn’t matter who plays a gay character… it’s acting
I don’t think a persons sexuality should affect whether or not they get hired for a job. I would throw a fit if they denied a gay actor from playing a straight role, and I like to keep that energy here.
Blain from Glee isn't gay in real life, but he could've fooled me. So just get whoever's best for the job it seems. It might help if the actor's gay, but at the end of the day, the job should go to whoever gives the best performance.
the fact that this video is how i find out that Nicholas Galitzine is straight, is CRAZY. bro could’ve had me fooled (saying this with peace and love)
10:50 Ponyboi, I watched it during Sundance earlier this year. It's worth mentioning that it was an independent movie so it wasn't made by a big studio and as far as I know the only distributor that picked it up was showtime?
Yeah but how can you have it both ways, restricting who can play roles would force actors to out their sexuality.
I don't care if they do, but I think they need to clarify it more than they do. I don't think forcing people out is good either, but it feels like some actors are just using it to get more notoriety.