The Collection of the Quran, Part I
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- čas přidán 24. 01. 2018
- How was the Quran first put together? How did it come assume the form in which we have it today? In this video, Dr. Lumbard discusses the understanding of the collection of the Quran in Islamic sources. This video goes up until the death of the Prophet (SAWS) in 632. Part II focuses upon the collection of the Quran after the death of the Prophet and the creation of the first official collection of the Quran.
Thanks 😊 so much for the explanation sir
May Allah the almighty reward for for your work
How I adore this man of how he did his research of quran & Islam. Joseph Lumbard such a brilliant man!
You are too kind.
Praise Allah. To Him belongs all the kindness. Most kind, most benificient. Thank you.
Thank you brother for such important work!!!
Thank you
Well done Dr Joseph Lumbard, you presented a pretty good account of how Quran was collected. Islam and Quran now is 'a big tree', this is not possible if someone had not implanted the tree in the first place. The Prophet had insisted upon his followers to learn Quran, recite it continuously as a form of worship, and to teach it to others. What we have now is the fruit of the Prophet Muhammad's efforts God's Peace be upon him. (ولا يحزنك الذين يسارعون في الكفر إنهم لن يضرو الله شيئاً) ...
salaam, Thank you, I am honored.
Thank you very much Prof. May Allah SWT bless you. Aamiin YRA. I am a muslimah from Indonesia. Wassalamu alaikum wr wb.
Thank you.
Who rated this excellent video by pressing the thumbs down? Beggars belief!
I did it. He lied a lot, be each through omission. He talk much but say little, at least in regard of truth.
@@neluroman555 - you are ignorant so therefore your opinion doesn't count.
Thanks for the video..
It would great if you can begin another series about how hadiths were collected, and what makes a hadith authentic or not..
I agree! Especially how Hanafi madhab is different from the others in terms of this issue. I think Hanafis have their own criteria to accept or reject Hadith.
There are others far better qualified than myself for such a series. I'll stick with videos in may areas of specialization for now, and consider branching out a bit later. But you are right, such a series is needed, since there are so many misunderstandings around these issues.
Thank you for the fantastic insight indeed
Thank you
Jazak Allah
He's back, with a brand new rap! Matter of fact, scratch that, this is better than rap. (I tried to rhyme... I'll be quiet this time...)
Thank you Dr Lumbard.
Additional comment: quality of the videos have been getting better. Smooth transitions and solid prompts for important information.
HAHAHAHA YOU JACKASS,
Great information. More graphics and text will aid my understanding more.
Thank you. Graphics take time and/or money, and I don't have much of either. Hopefully there will be opportunities in the future to make videos with graphics.
Masha Allah.
Hello prof. Lumbard. If the verses were arranged by the prophet, was this order recorded somehow and somewhere; or how could anyone have retained, in memory for example, that ordering of the verses and/or who could have retained it so? and if the companions arranged the ordering, based on what? and if the ordering was not done by the prophet, how did they know how to recite throughout the 23 years during their rituals?
Hi Wendy. It was memorized in order by the Prophet and by his companions. This is one of the reasons that there was so much focus on teaching the text and insuring that it was memorized correctly.
thank you for your response; should we then understand that prior to Muh.'s last meeting with Gabriel when, according to the tradition, the Qur'an was given its final shape, Muhammad had already had his scribes arrange the order of verses in written and/oral form (though I tend to feel compelled to believe that Muhammad had it wriiten with the verses arranged and ordered) and thus Abu Bakr's first collection and Othman's second collection was conducted in accordance with that ordering? If the ordering of verses was done during that last meeting with Gabriel, or even Muhammad had his scribes place the verses as they descended in their proper order, then there must have been some sort of written material reflecting that ordering, which of course did not survive! anyhow, i believe the issue of the ordering of verses has great ramifications for whether or not the Quran was in written but uncollected form into a single unit prior to Abu Bakr.
vWindy TN they used to recite it during the whole month of ramadan
Please note that there is zero disagreement regarding the ordering of the verses (Ayat). The so called "opinions" is regarding the ordering of the Surahs (chapters), which is what part of Dr Lumbard was about. As for retention, we still do till today. In fact, millions have done and still do memorize the Qur'an by heart. The preservation took TWO forms, not one: oral recitation and in writing.
Dear & Respectful Dr. Lumbard.
I trust that you are above and beyond just regular Arabs in commanding the Arabic language so I beg you and please do follow up with the work of Prof. Fadel Saleh Assamaraea. You will significantly benefit from him in your bestowed efforts.
May Allah bless you.
I love his work and use it in much of my own research.
And what are your thoughts on the book by Daniel Brubaker, Corrections in Early Quran Manuscripts?
Not scholarship. There is a reason it did not get published by an academic press. It would not pass any peer review process.
@@jelumbard thank you Doctor
@@jelumbard a lot of Christian missionaries are using this book against the authenticity of the Quran. As a Muslim I want to know what unbiased non Muslim scholars say on the collection and transmission of the Quran
@@jelumbard This was also confirmed by Dr Tayyar Altikulac's book.
U da man
U da cat!
May Allah bless you. ..
He lies by omitting to give you proper information. He is a deceiver.
@@neluroman555
Good Day, Sir
Would you please help me with the truth, facts, verifying the claimed lies and help me not to be decieved.
Cheers,
@@diaasalman2298 I am a Christian who writes ( in my native language) a book about Islam. That is the reason for why I am here: to find different opinions, especially from Muslims. Yes, I've researched Islam for many years now, and, helped by my background in history, I can say that I know a lot about Islam, Quran and Muhammad.
So that, if you want to ask me something about Islam, I will answer you as sincere as I can.
@@neluroman555
This is great. I do appreciate your interest. You politely mentioned that Dr.Lambard lied so I am asking if you'd verify all or some of those lies.
You may choose to either give long answer or a short one.
I am very open to all and any.
My Best,
@@diaasalman2298 The first time when I heard Joseph Lumbard lying was in another video where he said: "Quraish tribe attacked Muslim's caravanes." That is a flat lie, because the truth is exactly vice versa: Muslims attacked Mecca's caravanes. And of course, Mr. Lumbard knew the truth, still he prefered to lie. Why?
Now, coming back the video with Quran preservation, he intentionally omitted some important details.
1)There are no Quranic manuscripts from the seventh century.
Birmingham Manuscripts, that contain Quranic material, are not necessary Quranic manuscripts. According to carbon dated information, they might precede Islam by two years and contain a text from surah 19 connected to the Christian legends circulating at that time in Arabia.
Hafsa's Quran is a himera, we will never know what it contained and if there was something over there.
What Lumbard " omitted " to say is that the team of scribs who were in charge of compiling the Quran, under the orders of Uthman, came up with FOUR variants of Quran.
Uthman pick up one of these Qurans and said, " This is the Quran. Burn out the rest!"
Who gave Uthman the authority to decide which one of the Qurans was the right Quran? Who? Of course, Mr. Lumbard doesn't tell us anything about.
He also doesn't tell us that not one, just one copy of Uthman Quran survived until the day.
Sana'a Manuscript.
Mr. Lumbard tells us that these manuscripts differ slightly from the modern Quran.
I don't know what Mr. Lumbard means by" "slightly", but between newest script of San'a Manuscripts and the correspondent script of Modern Quran there are 2000 ( or something like this) diferencies.
Of course, 2,000 is not 2,000,000 but when you speak of an unchanged Quran, 2000 diferencies really matter.
In fact, Sana'a manuscripts are palimpsest type manuscripts - an older script was erased and a newer one replaced it. Now, the scholars have been able to read the both scripts and found out that the newer one is an improving of the older one.
Dr. Puin, a german scholar specialized in ancient scripts, intensively studied the manuscripts and concluded ( approximately)
"... Sana'a Manuscripts are our most ancient manuscript of the Qur’an [and] does not agree with the standard text read around the world today, thus proving that the Quran has a history. ”
Of course Mr. Lumbard also " forgot " to tell us that the 1924 modern Quran is based on a recitation, Hafs Recitation, and not on any Quranic manuscripts. Hafs was a student in Quran who lived in Mecca of the eighth century. He was a liar, he was caught "inventing " hadiths.
As you see, Dia Salman, Mr. Lumbard is a very well educated Muslim, still he is so...... forgetful, he always forgets to say the entire truth.
Great information, but speak a bit faster.
its perfect like this, no rush
Mr. Lumbard in Part 1 of your 2 Part series you said and asked ..."... in fact this printed edition right here is really something that began around 1924 that's when we have the first printed editions of the Quran from which all of the printed editions that we have now derive. So how did we get to this text from the collection of the Quran in the middle of the seventh century"
Mr. Lumbard, you gave the impression that you would explain how we got the 1924 Mushaf, but you never really followed through. You also made an incorrect statement when you said that "all of the printed editions that we have now derive" from the 1924 Cairo Edition of the Mushaf. That is not correct, sir. In many parts of the world another print of the Mushaf is used based on the Warsh version of the Mushaf. The 1924 Edition made in Egypt was based on the Hafs version of the Mushaf which has differences from the Warsh version of the Mushaf. It is true that the majority of printed Mushafs in the world are based on the Hafs 1924 version of the Mushaf but it is not true that "all of the printed editions" derive from the 1924 edition made in Cairo, Egypt.
In the previous text forearm should be read as Quran
Please not that what you ascribed to the Prophet Muhammad as Hadith regarding "seeking Knowledge from the cradle to the grave" is not a hadith, and it is totally fabricated and falsely ascribed to the Prophet (peace be upon him). لا أصل له
As for the other hadith "Seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim, male and female", this exact wording does not constitute an authentic Hadith. The scholars differ concerning the wording up to the word "Muslim", but they are in agreement that word "Muslima" is an added fabrication. In other words, "Seeking knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim" has support within the Hadith community, but the part "male and female" in the translation has no substantiation. Of course, seeking knowledge is encouraged in Islam, but here the concern is about what the Prophet said and what he did not. Additionally, the hadith without the word "Muslima" (female Muslim) includes females, too.
You also showed four opinions regarding the ordering of the Surahs and said the first is where you find the most agreement among the Muslim scholars. After stating your explanation about those four views you stated you did not know which one of those (opinions) it actually was and claimed that you thought no one necessarily knew for certain. This contradicts the first view you stated. Then you went on to support the fourth view. This contradicts your last statement.
In any case, the agreement of the majority of the Muslim scholar community should have and most of the time does have precedence over individual views such as those of al-Baqillani and Ibn Atiyyah among others. The issue is not about about a group versus one, but rather the evidence studied/considered by a group is of wider scope than that of one.
To proof wether Islam is a true or false religion is very very easy. Just dig the grave of Prophet Muhammad..if his body remained intact in its original form as claimed in Sahih Hadith than all religions on planet earth must openly admit that Islam is true..if the body decayed than Islam is false...by doing so confusion pertaining to Islam can be cleared once and for all..Muslim community must allow that for the sake of their own religion..i m a Muslim from Malaysia...tired of hearing debate from all parties
The Hadith are not infallible as has already been shown many times. However if the Quran says so then i would agree with you.
Do you actually believe what you say.What a nonsense.
Thank you.
What specifically are you referring to?
@@sidprice6214 Like he flew to heaven on a donkey .Do you really believe that?
@@manfreddreschflegel1067 Not exactly a donkey but a creature that may resemble one with some physical differences.
Why the disbelief in something supernatural in the Quran but no argument with supernatural creatures in the Bible: dragons/sea serpents/leviathans, witches, giants/Nephilim, Seraphim, Cherubim etc. ?
What about all the supernatural happenings in the Bible : eg Jesus walking on water, Moses parting the sea, people walking into fires and not getting burnt, a talking burning bush, Jesus getting taken up to heaven alive, etc etc?
The truth of the matter is that God is a supernatural being so supernatural occurrences should be expected. Don't you believe that?
@@sidprice6214No disrespect but I think you need help to believe in that nonsense.
The Quran can not be seen outside of a historical context. According to my information, some scholars now consider the Quran to be a part of the biblical traditions and a product of late antiquity.
Asbjørn Bergh
Check out A Syro-Arameic reading of the Quran by Christoph Luxenburg.
One sees our dear Asbjørn Bergh everywhere one looks when the Quran is being discusses, being on Facebook, Twitter, Forums, and not CZcams, ha ha. And you are right!
Lmao there is no biblos at that time. claim that Quran was copy of preceeding text i.e Biblos is weird bcz Quran was and still golden standard of Arabic classic but how come Biblos that exist prior Quran are not ?