Find out who's better at fixing machines, AI or the CNC Repairman. Website: cncreplacementparts.com/ Facebook: / thecncrepairman Instagram: cncrepairma...
The answers from AI are all suggestions made from existing Text Books. So answers are straight from the books or cnc manuals. So CNC Repairman wins in my opinion!
I'm on your side that AI will never replace the experienced expert, and I also think that you didn't really give AI a fair chance. As a machinist, I can say that you are absolutely correct that finish issues are likely related to the tooling or a lack of rigidity somewhere in the setup; however, a hard crash or worn components also cause problems. The way you asked GPT, it has to answer for both the machinist and the technician. So, I just came up with a prompt that clearly states a common milling issue where the chatter can only be caused by the CNC, and be unrelated to the job setup: "In an industrial CNC mill setup, using an endmill, chatter is present along the y-axis during an internal circular interpolation, but no chatter is present along the x-axis of the circular bore. Rotating the vice 90 degrees and performing the same cut will produce a similar result. With the same setup, on another machine, there is no chatter present. What can be causing the chatter?" In the response, I was hoping that it would say "check the ball-screw for wear" or "buy new seals and remove the clumped shavings from under the way covers", but what I got was pretty much "check your tooling, cutting conditions, and lubrication"... now I'm thinking that you rated AI to highly... that maybe it can ONLY provide general responses to abstract ideas. Will there be any more AI versus human videos coming our way?
I asked ChatGPT4 your exact prompt and got this result: "Milling chatter is usually a result of a dynamic response in the cutting process that involves the natural frequencies of the system. It manifests as an unstable, often loud and intense, vibration during cutting. If the chatter is present only in one specific axis and persists even after you rotate the workpiece, it suggests that the problem is machine-specific rather than tool or workpiece related. Here are several possible causes: 1. **Mechanical looseness:** If there's any mechanical looseness, such as a worn guide way, loose screw, or misalignment in the y-axis components of the machine, it could cause chatter. A machine's axes are not always equivalent in their mechanical design, which could explain why the problem only occurs in the y-axis. 2. **Unbalance forces:** The spindle or machine itself could be unbalanced, with the imbalance more noticeable when operations are performed along certain axes. 3. **Natural frequencies and mode shapes:** Every mechanical system has its own natural frequencies and mode shapes (ways in which it tends to vibrate). If the cutting conditions (like speed and feed rate) match one of these natural frequencies, resonance can occur, leading to chatter. It's possible that the y-axis of your machine has a natural frequency that is getting excited during this particular operation. 4. **Tool holder-spindle interface:** There might be an issue with the tool holder-spindle interface. Runout or a loose tool holder could result in chatter. 5. **Control system parameters:** The control system parameters could be improperly set for the y-axis. Factors such as servo gains, damping settings, and acceleration/deceleration rates can all impact system stability. 6. **Lubrication issues:** Improper lubrication or failing lubrication systems can cause increased friction and heat, leading to chatter. 7. **Servo response issue:** The problem could be specific to the servo control loop for the y-axis. This might not be responding correctly to the feedback, leading to instability. To pinpoint the cause, it would be necessary to perform some systematic diagnostic steps. You might need to check for mechanical looseness, inspect the machine components for wear or damage, and examine your control parameters. You might also want to perform a modal analysis to see if the y-axis is resonating at the cutting speed. You can then make necessary adjustments or repairs to alleviate the problem."
@@kjetilandersen7151 That's weird.. Was that the only question that you asked, were there any prior prompts, have you used the service before (if so, are you a machinist or tech)? I can't believe we're getting vastly different responses to the same prompt; I'm going to retry it when I get back and put it's response here: "Chatter in a CNC mill can have various causes, and diagnosing the exact reason can be complex. However, I can suggest some potential factors that could be contributing to the chatter in your specific scenario: Machine rigidity: Chatter can occur if the machine lacks sufficient rigidity to handle the cutting forces generated during the operation. This could be due to issues such as worn-out or improperly tensioned bearings, loose components, or a less rigid construction along the y-axis compared to the x-axis. Tool conditions: Check the condition of the endmill. A dull or damaged tool can lead to uneven cutting forces, causing chatter. Ensure that the endmill is sharp, properly secured, and suitable for the material being machined. Cutting parameters: Review the cutting parameters used during the operation. Chatter can result from improper speeds, feeds, or depths of cut. Adjusting these parameters to optimize the cutting conditions for your specific setup may help alleviate the chatter. Workholding stability: The way the workpiece is clamped or held in the vice can impact chatter. If the workpiece is not securely held, it may vibrate during the cutting process, leading to chatter. Ensure that the workpiece is properly positioned and firmly secured to minimize any movement. Machine dynamics: Different machines have varying characteristics, such as different spindle speeds, acceleration rates, or servo control systems. These differences can affect how the machine responds to cutting forces and vibrations. The machine that exhibits chatter may have less favorable dynamics for the specific operation compared to the machine that does not produce chatter. Lubrication and cooling: Insufficient lubrication or cooling of the cutting area can lead to increased friction and heat generation, potentially contributing to chatter. Make sure that the appropriate cutting fluid or lubricant is being used and applied correctly. Toolpath strategy: The toolpath used for the circular interpolation may also influence chatter. Consider optimizing the toolpath to reduce sudden changes in direction or excessive engagement of the endmill, which can help mitigate chatter. It is worth noting that the above factors are not exhaustive, and other variables specific to your setup may contribute to the chatter as well. To pinpoint the exact cause, it may be necessary to consult with a machining expert or conduct further experimentation and analysis with the specific machines and materials involved." Why can it be so different for us? Are you using ChatGPT, GPT4, or DALLE? (I used Chat). The response is changing slightly when it's regenerated on my end, but nothing like what you showed me.
@mics1417 That was the only question I posed during that conversation. I made use of GPT-4. I'm a hobbyist CNC user with only a few months of experience. I have previously asked questions about controlling a VFD through G-code. That's all.
@@kjetilandersen7151 Thanks for the reply! I was starting to think that the response from ChatGPT depends on the user's previous prompts, but it seems now that you used the later version and I used the earlier version.
You are a brain! Btw if I'm getting a harmonic sound at certain RPMs (Mini Mill), what could that be a sign of? Something off with the bearings or motor?
I asked chat gpt where the local Yaskawa dealer was and it told me to google it... My Matsurra wont fully power up :( It hasn't run since I've owned it...
So you basically ask every single question there is instead of narrowing it down and targeting specific questions... thats not really helping though is it? tbh in the future these machines will be filled with sensors and it will just self diagnose.
The cost of the AI machine that can completely diagnose itself will be priced 10x higher than others that do the same work, and the machine buyer won't buy th AI machine because the work they run on it won't cover the extra cost of the machine in its lifetime. They won't ever reach ROI return on investment unless they are charging their customers 10x more on for the same part produced. The machine mechanics will wear out at the same rate on both type machines. Still going to need a repairman. And sensors will fail. Still need a repair man. And for preventive maintenance, Still need a repair man. The cost to build a perfect AI self sustainable machine would cost more than anyone could afford and it would never achieve a return on the investment IMO.
I have had the same argument with someone who said AI will replace me for developing Macro B programming. I just laugh anymore. Go ahead and run the code AI spits out, they will be calling you.
A CNC technician may or may not use AI but AI must use a CNC technician.
I really appreciate the content that you're making, keep on doing this and your channel will flourish soon !
The answers from AI are all suggestions made from existing Text Books. So answers are straight from the books or cnc manuals. So CNC Repairman wins in my opinion!
Check backlash of each axis.
I'm on your side that AI will never replace the experienced expert, and I also think that you didn't really give AI a fair chance. As a machinist, I can say that you are absolutely correct that finish issues are likely related to the tooling or a lack of rigidity somewhere in the setup; however, a hard crash or worn components also cause problems. The way you asked GPT, it has to answer for both the machinist and the technician.
So, I just came up with a prompt that clearly states a common milling issue where the chatter can only be caused by the CNC, and be unrelated to the job setup:
"In an industrial CNC mill setup, using an endmill, chatter is present along the y-axis during an internal circular interpolation, but no chatter is present along the x-axis of the circular bore. Rotating the vice 90 degrees and performing the same cut will produce a similar result. With the same setup, on another machine, there is no chatter present. What can be causing the chatter?"
In the response, I was hoping that it would say "check the ball-screw for wear" or "buy new seals and remove the clumped shavings from under the way covers", but what I got was pretty much "check your tooling, cutting conditions, and lubrication"... now I'm thinking that you rated AI to highly... that maybe it can ONLY provide general responses to abstract ideas.
Will there be any more AI versus human videos coming our way?
I asked ChatGPT4 your exact prompt and got this result:
"Milling chatter is usually a result of a dynamic response in the cutting process that involves the natural frequencies of the system. It manifests as an unstable, often loud and intense, vibration during cutting. If the chatter is present only in one specific axis and persists even after you rotate the workpiece, it suggests that the problem is machine-specific rather than tool or workpiece related.
Here are several possible causes:
1. **Mechanical looseness:** If there's any mechanical looseness, such as a worn guide way, loose screw, or misalignment in the y-axis components of the machine, it could cause chatter. A machine's axes are not always equivalent in their mechanical design, which could explain why the problem only occurs in the y-axis.
2. **Unbalance forces:** The spindle or machine itself could be unbalanced, with the imbalance more noticeable when operations are performed along certain axes.
3. **Natural frequencies and mode shapes:** Every mechanical system has its own natural frequencies and mode shapes (ways in which it tends to vibrate). If the cutting conditions (like speed and feed rate) match one of these natural frequencies, resonance can occur, leading to chatter. It's possible that the y-axis of your machine has a natural frequency that is getting excited during this particular operation.
4. **Tool holder-spindle interface:** There might be an issue with the tool holder-spindle interface. Runout or a loose tool holder could result in chatter.
5. **Control system parameters:** The control system parameters could be improperly set for the y-axis. Factors such as servo gains, damping settings, and acceleration/deceleration rates can all impact system stability.
6. **Lubrication issues:** Improper lubrication or failing lubrication systems can cause increased friction and heat, leading to chatter.
7. **Servo response issue:** The problem could be specific to the servo control loop for the y-axis. This might not be responding correctly to the feedback, leading to instability.
To pinpoint the cause, it would be necessary to perform some systematic diagnostic steps. You might need to check for mechanical looseness, inspect the machine components for wear or damage, and examine your control parameters. You might also want to perform a modal analysis to see if the y-axis is resonating at the cutting speed. You can then make necessary adjustments or repairs to alleviate the problem."
@@kjetilandersen7151 That's weird.. Was that the only question that you asked, were there any prior prompts, have you used the service before (if so, are you a machinist or tech)?
I can't believe we're getting vastly different responses to the same prompt; I'm going to retry it when I get back and put it's response here:
"Chatter in a CNC mill can have various causes, and diagnosing the exact reason can be complex. However, I can suggest some potential factors that could be contributing to the chatter in your specific scenario:
Machine rigidity: Chatter can occur if the machine lacks sufficient rigidity to handle the cutting forces generated during the operation. This could be due to issues such as worn-out or improperly tensioned bearings, loose components, or a less rigid construction along the y-axis compared to the x-axis.
Tool conditions: Check the condition of the endmill. A dull or damaged tool can lead to uneven cutting forces, causing chatter. Ensure that the endmill is sharp, properly secured, and suitable for the material being machined.
Cutting parameters: Review the cutting parameters used during the operation. Chatter can result from improper speeds, feeds, or depths of cut. Adjusting these parameters to optimize the cutting conditions for your specific setup may help alleviate the chatter.
Workholding stability: The way the workpiece is clamped or held in the vice can impact chatter. If the workpiece is not securely held, it may vibrate during the cutting process, leading to chatter. Ensure that the workpiece is properly positioned and firmly secured to minimize any movement.
Machine dynamics: Different machines have varying characteristics, such as different spindle speeds, acceleration rates, or servo control systems. These differences can affect how the machine responds to cutting forces and vibrations. The machine that exhibits chatter may have less favorable dynamics for the specific operation compared to the machine that does not produce chatter.
Lubrication and cooling: Insufficient lubrication or cooling of the cutting area can lead to increased friction and heat generation, potentially contributing to chatter. Make sure that the appropriate cutting fluid or lubricant is being used and applied correctly.
Toolpath strategy: The toolpath used for the circular interpolation may also influence chatter. Consider optimizing the toolpath to reduce sudden changes in direction or excessive engagement of the endmill, which can help mitigate chatter.
It is worth noting that the above factors are not exhaustive, and other variables specific to your setup may contribute to the chatter as well. To pinpoint the exact cause, it may be necessary to consult with a machining expert or conduct further experimentation and analysis with the specific machines and materials involved."
Why can it be so different for us? Are you using ChatGPT, GPT4, or DALLE? (I used Chat). The response is changing slightly when it's regenerated on my end, but nothing like what you showed me.
Oh it will. ChatGPT isnt really an AI. Its just a prediction on what word will come next. A proper ai will replace almost all jobs.
@mics1417 That was the only question I posed during that conversation. I made use of GPT-4. I'm a hobbyist CNC user with only a few months of experience. I have previously asked questions about controlling a VFD through G-code. That's all.
@@kjetilandersen7151 Thanks for the reply! I was starting to think that the response from ChatGPT depends on the user's previous prompts, but it seems now that you used the later version and I used the earlier version.
wow, did you really start repairing cnc machines the second you were born? :P
What did the AI charge?
You are a brain! Btw if I'm getting a harmonic sound at certain RPMs (Mini Mill), what could that be a sign of? Something off with the bearings or motor?
Parameter got change unknowingly.
Control board not counting encoder steps or missing step
Your whole life.....dude, you are like 12 years old 😂😂😂
youre ok?
Hi sir, thanks for great content, do you teach?
Encoder missing a marker pulse.?
I noticed the answers felt like they were directed to an operator trying to repair on the spot before calling you. The answers were interesting
Hello sir which is the smaller vmc manufactured.
LOL, AI is pants 🤣
🔥🔥👏👏👑👑
I asked chat gpt where the local Yaskawa dealer was and it told me to google it... My Matsurra wont fully power up :( It hasn't run since I've owned it...
Cnc repair man.
So you basically ask every single question there is instead of narrowing it down and targeting specific questions... thats not really helping though is it?
tbh in the future these machines will be filled with sensors and it will just self diagnose.
The cost of the AI machine that can completely diagnose itself will be priced 10x higher than others that do the same work, and the machine buyer won't buy th AI machine because the work they run on it won't cover the extra cost of the machine in its lifetime. They won't ever reach ROI return on investment unless they are charging their customers 10x more on for the same part produced. The machine mechanics will wear out at the same rate on both type machines. Still going to need a repairman. And sensors will fail. Still need a repair man. And for preventive maintenance, Still need a repair man. The cost to build a perfect AI self sustainable machine would cost more than anyone could afford and it would never achieve a return on the investment IMO.
I have had the same argument with someone who said AI will replace me for developing Macro B programming. I just laugh anymore. Go ahead and run the code AI spits out, they will be calling you.