Astra Militarum Vs Black Templar! | 10th Edition Battle Report | Warhammer 40,000
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- čas přidán 10. 02. 2024
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Greetings Mordian Commander,
Your Scion-Obsessed Commander here. When it comes to Scions with Plasma and those 5 lasguns, its this Tempestor's opinion that you pretty much should just use FRFSRF over take aim. Getting 11 plasma shots hitting on 3's rr-1s or full rrs is so much better than the increased accuracy. You'll likely hit more plasma shots than you would have even fired with the 8 shots of hitting on 2's.
That being said, more shots means more 6's to explode and more 1s to reroll to fish for 6s.
15-man squad with Take aim:
6 shots from 3 plasma rifles + 2 plasma pistol
Hitting on 2s, rr-1s, exploding 6's:
8*1*1.17=9.36 total hits.
15-man squad with FRFSRF:
9 shots from 3 plasma rifles + 2 plasma pistol
Hitting on 3's, rr-1s, exploding 6's:
11*.83*1.17=10.68
If you FRFSRF and shoot an objective:
11*.83*1.33=12.14
(11 shots, hitting on 3's re-rolling all, exploding 6's)
Please note to account for exploding 6's you add .17 to the normal hit percentage, its effectively a +1 to hit to have exploding 6's.
The only time this MAY not be worth it to FRFSRF is if you're shooting elite infantry that the melta can 1-shot and wound easily and the extra accuracy for melta will outweight an extra shot for every single plasma and hotshot weapon, very niche.
Thanks for this breakdown
This is a brilliant breakdown cheers mate
It's not about opinion, it's just math. You nearly always wanna FRFSRF regardless of whether or not the opponent is on an objective. It's just math.
There are more exceptions than you mentioned (math gets a bit wonky when - to hit and -bs are stacked), but that's very few niche cases.
That White Templars army is beautiful! Great video.
Thank you :)
every Mordian Glory battle report is an amazing bonus to my weekend! Thank you,
Sir, I am glad this is your style, Sir.
You don't have to roll (or decide overcharging) separately for characters. The new Errata clarified that "You can select any model equipped with a Hazardous weapon
to suffer the effects of that failed test (it does not have to be the Character, even if that Character was the only model that attacked with a Hazardous weapon)."
It's on page 7 of the new Rules Commentary. So the only reason not to overcharge your Officer / Seargant / Leader Weapons when you overcharge everything else is the risk of failing all the hazardous checks. You don't risk blowing them up if any other hazardous users are left in the unit.
Used to be able to get that Hobgoblin beer here in the US.
Hard 4 the guard 07
What the!? My two armies going up against each other! This should be fun!!
Same LOL
Mordian, really digging these style battle reports as they give a deeper understanding of the “why” behind your decisions. My favorite one yet.
Grand Strategist doesnt work with ordering from reserve/disembark, it specifies an extra order in the command phase.
Mordian talked about this already in one of his Streams. RaW this is most likely correct (and he did notice after the fact), but there's a pretty good chance GW just missed it (like so many other things in Guard).
Just watched this as I was doing a bit of painting. As a Guard and Templar player I loved this. However, bloody hell Mordian was your list up against it with all of those tanks. Fair play to the guy for flying over what a legend.
I'm still unsure why when he first got his Helbrecht blob out why he didn't charge the tanks! Yes it was a longer charge, but he would have slaughtered them!
Anyway, great game and well played both players. I really enjoyed that.
That White Templar army
looks fantastic, fun game
Thank you
Great game, what a legend Eric is for coming over with a beautiful Templar’s army. Good effort Mordian, tough match up
Thank you
nice to see a fellow swedish templar player on the channel
21:11 This is where I am gonna Watch on.
A swede, how nice.
Tjenare mannen!
Awesome stuff!!
The problem is this - Melta Guns are just not anti-tank. The strength is too low on them, and Guard have zero to wound re-rolls apart from climbing out of a Taurox Prime or the odd few twin linked weapons. Therefore Tempestus / Kasrkin armies are always going to struggle with armour heavy lists as they lean on melta to deal with anything tough.
I think that poor Templar player forgot his Frag Assault Launchers/Stormbolters when shooting those Scions in turn 2...
Did not have the range for it ;)
The Impulsor has firing deck! All the sword Bretheren inside along with the Emperor’s Champ should have taken those last two guards out!
Mordian said he wanted to use reinforcements on the unit with only one model left 37:45. However, he had a character in that unit so if he chose the character to live than he becomes a separate unit meaning he could use reinforcements to bring back the bodyguard models as a separate unit. if that makes any sense.
Could be wrong but I think that's what the rules say.
That lad coming from another country is a legend
Thanks for the gift man love the vids been watching forever keep it up
As a Black Templars player myself, if I was facing a horde army like Mordian’s Imperial Guard list, I’d be at a disadvantage because my army is TOO ELITE. My Sword Brethren and Crusaders will delete anything they touch, and my Land Raider and transports ensure my melee squads reach their targets at full strength, but I wouldn’t have enough units to counter the Imperial Guards’ overwhelming number of squads and vehicles, and ranged firepower.
For example, I also have a list with Helbrecht + Bladeguard LT (with Tannhauser’s Bones) + 10 Sword Brethren loaded in a Land Raider (not Redeemer because the unit has 12 models and fits inside a normal LR for 20 points less), which I call my “Daemon Slayer Squad” because it’s geared toward killing a Daemon Primarch like Angron or Mortarion (or similarly powerful monster or heavy tank) in a SINGLE TURN - ideally Turn 2. The whole thing costs 740 points, twice the cost of a primarch. The problem is that there aren’t any suitably big targets on Mordian’s list to justify the Daemon Slayer Squad.
I know that I’m (un-ironically) playing Monday Morning Quarterback on Super Bowl Sunday… but I would’ve ignored Mordian’s infantry squad on the #4 objective and gone after the vehicles in the backfield instead, and not disembarked Helbrecht’s squad in Turn 2. Firstly, I would not have Advanced the Redeemer so I could’ve shot its Flamestorm Cannons into the infantry squad inside the building, because they Ignore Cover. Between all of the Land Raider’s weapons and the Lancer’s behind it, they should’ve been able to remove that IG squad from the objective.
The Redeemer is tough enough to survive a round of shooting from Mordian’s Chimaeras and Basilisks. The next turn, the Redeemer’s 12” Move would’ve gotten it into range for both its Flamestorms and for Helbrecht’s squad to disembark for an easy charge. The way Mordian’s infantry and vehicles were castled up, Helbrecht’s squad could’ve tagged multiple units and split their attacks to inflict heavy losses - possibly wipe them all out - but at least take away their ranged attacks.
Regardless, it probably wouldn’t matter because Mordian’s Deep Striking squads gave him so much board control to dominate primary scoring, and once the Black Templar squads were out of their transports, they’d get whittled down by ranged fire.
It was an entertaining battle to watch! And it gave me ideas for an Anti-Imperial Guard Black Templars list.
I still believe in manticores! This nerf too shall pass.
Can't find the time stamp, but mordian says that he wished his kaskin had thrown the mine before combat. But it can be used at the start of any phase.
With all the talk about anti deep-strike, would the regimental advisors with the Astropath be back on the menu ?
Thought about it, but too pricey, because it is only from 1 model.
I get that you took Straken as a little melee missile, but if you took Creed and attached them to one of the Kasrkin, couldn't you have given them FRFSRF twice thanks to an order from Creed and then warrior elite, and then also used take aim from Creed's second order thanks to lord castellan? There's definitely less melee utility, but you could potentially just turn a berzerker into a smear on the ground instead.
You can’t stack the same order twice, even with Creed
@@CrownedDraken The same order stacking comes from the Kasrkin warrior elite, Creed's double orders on the same unit have to be different orders, but Kasrkin don't. This lets you get warrior elite FRFSRF, and then Creed's first order of FRFSRF, then the second Creed order is take aim.
Warrior Elite: In your Command phase, you can select one Order to affect this unit until the start of your next Command phase, in addition to any other Orders issued to this unit by an OFFICER model this turn.
I could be totally wrong about this though, tournaments could totally not allow this. It works RAW, but who knows about RAI.
@@CrownedDraken There is literally nothing preventing you from doing this in Voice of Command. In any case where this is usually possible, it is prevented by specific limitations (like Creeds double order on the unit specifying "different"). Warrior Elite however does not come with this limitation and therefor you absolutely can doe FRFSRF twice on Kasrkin (once regularly and once from Warrior Elite).
Purge the heretic!!
Why aren't you overcharging officer plasma pistols? You just batch roll all the hazardous and select regular plasma troopers to suffer the fails. You don't risk the officer separately when he overcharges.
Yeah I think Mordian may have missed where the new dataslate specified that you can take failed hazardous rolls on any model that failed a roll.
I'm pretty sure you have to declare Fields of Fire before you shoot, not after.
No, it's after.
@@theStamax Is there an errata I'm missing? GW's app says
Target: One Regiment or Squadron unit from your army that has not been selected the shoot this phase.
If it's after then it would have already been selected to shoot.
@@justinmsc5 No you are right. Thanks for letting me know! You made me check again too and even though all the affects apply after the unit has shot, you actually have to use the strat beforehand.
NOOOO not my two factions i play fighting each other haha
Rapier Laser Destroyer is a easy way to antitank ?
just slow and fragile. I do like them, but scout sentinels are much more versatile and therefore are potentially a better option. Obviously all based on meta and what you think is fun haha!
It seems that you used the kasrkins abilities after bringing them in from reserves to give themselves an order. Should that be possible considering that the ability works in the command phase, and it isn't an order based on voice of command?
Can you pull from the command squad before the base unit is dead? I thought you had to lose the bodyguard first?
Me too, but I was wrong. You can.
The whole unit keeping battleshocked after death is crazy as heck , so sure if you’re using logic of dead men being afraid still , sure the commissar can make the dead men not afraid anymore. It’s the same dumb logic imo.
Random question, would a basalisk being supported by a tank commander and exterminator leman russ with scout sentinel support be worth it?
For what? That's a pretty massive investment and ultimately boosts mediocre shooting. There's a reason Mordian usually uses 2 Basilisks without order support. Because they are very point efficient for moping up units and pressuring smaller scorers/screeners. You won't really get much more value out of a Basilisk if you boost it by those units.
If your Scout Sentinels can already see the enemy unit and so can your Exterminator, that means they are already out in the open and you have things with more firepower to deal with that.
I think you can run all these things in a list and do well, but don't waste orders on basilisks unless it's literally the last thing you can order. You already get all the benefits from the exterminator and scout sentinels anyways and you may be able to chip the last few wounds off with the basilisk if your other stuff fails to do it, but going into the battle with the plan of using this combination will just end up in you losing.
Interesting. That's how I used to run my msticores at the start of 10th and yeah with the random number of shots it was kinda stupid of me
Europe is Local!
I was asked that, how oh well this was battleshocked so you cant use reinforce on it. I said, but its dead, it is no longer on the board, it is destroyed why would it be battleshocked. Im not bringing these men back from the dead Im having friends from the rear move up.
Recent rule update clarified battleshock will effect reinforcement stratagem
That's how they intended it to played, probably should have made it clear from the start IMO but that's not how GW work.
@@theconsensualgamerwell if it is written then so be it.
@@theconsensualgamer I think his point was that it's pretty stupid. And I agree btw. Guard is oddly screwed by battleshock moreso than other factions (with a second maybe being Tau who is the second faction who's army rule stops halfway working when battleshocked).
Whatever happened to Tom, do you still play with him?
Tom left the channel many months ago!
He left to pursue a simple life spent gardening. However, walking back to Bag End from The Green Dragon pub late one night, he was attacked and carried offby a very large owl. We miss him and will always cherish his memory. Rest in Power, short king.
Can a lieutenant join Primaris Sword Brethren?
Yes, anything that can be attached to an Intercessor Squad can be used. Lieutenant can also join a squad that already had a captain or chapter master in it (Helbrecht)
@@plupp14 Sweet, thanks man!
@Mordian, i hate to be " THAT guy" but commisars CANNOT order "take aim". They can ONLY issue the orders of "fix bayonets" or "duty and honour" its under thier datasheet... sorry for the bad news.
On the bright side of loved the report! I myself am a Militarum Tempestus player and i hate what they done to our commisars... THEY CANNOT EVEN LEAD OGRYNS NOW!
Also , melta being so bad at AT feels so stupid in this edition. I don’t get why they did it aside from wanting vehicles and monsters to be running wild. Like Jurassic park but with vehicles.
why would you bother with kaskins when you chose a Scion Warlord, all scions would have made more sense. You could atleast bring them back....
Why can't you bring Kasrkin back?
@@briarsandbantams Because they're elite and not core. Reinforcements is for core troops. By selecting a scion commander as the warlord the scions "Normally also an elite choice" become core and can be brought back with reinforcements... and Karskins are only slightly better then scions in the first place. Alternatively he could have taken Bullgryn's instead if your not worried about being able to bring a unit back. Or even regular guard like Catachan's could have put Straken in that unit". Jeezus so many more logical options for this list he is fielding....
@@WordoftheFree No it doesn't
Reinforcements doesn't even use the words "Core" or "Battleline"
It's "Regiment" units which Kasrkin are
@@WordoftheFree Sorry, that's not how the rule reads at all.
Obligatory Comment 🫡
@mordianglory rules commentary specifically says if a character fails a hazardous test, you do NOT have to allocate it to them, you can pass it on to another model with a hazardous weapon first. It even follows up with "even if the character was the only model to attack with a hazardous weapon". So if you fire your plasma, and one modem did not, you can still take that model off instead of allocating 3 mortal wounds.
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